Israeli "Art Student" scandal

[sethen]

http://ww1.sundayherald.com/37707

I guess the Sunday herald is "anti-semitic"as well?

[Rebel 7]

Five Israelis were seen filming as jet liners ploughed into the Twin Towers on September 11, 2001 ...

Were they part of a massive spy ring which shadowed the 9/11 hijackers and knew that al-Qaeda planned a devastating terrorist attack on the USA? Neil Mackay investigates

http://ww1.sundayherald.com/img8028

THERE was ruin and terror in Manhattan, but, over the Hudson River in New Jersey, a handful of men were dancing. As the World Trade Centre burned and crumpled, the five men celebrated and filmed the worst atrocity ever committed on American soil as it played out before their eyes.

Who do you think they were? Palestinians? Saudis? Iraqis, even? Al-Qaeda, surely? Wrong on all counts. They were Israelis – and at least two of them were Israeli intelligence agents, working for Mossad, the equivalent of MI6 or the CIA.

Their discovery and arrest that morning is a matter of indisputable fact. To those who have investigated just what the Israelis were up to that day, the case raises one dreadful possibility: that Israeli intelligence had been shadowing the al-Qaeda hijackers as they moved from the Middle East through Europe and into America where they trained as pilots and prepared to suicide-bomb the symbolic heart of the United States. And the motive? To bind America in blood and mutual suffering to the Israeli cause.

After the attacks on New York and Washington, the former Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, was asked what the terrorist strikes would mean for US-Israeli relations. He said: “It’s very good.” Then he corrected himself, adding: “Well, it’s not good, but it will generate immediate sympathy [for Israel from Americans].”

If Israel’s closest ally felt the collective pain of mass civilian deaths at the hands of terrorists, then Israel would have an unbreakable bond with the world’s only hyperpower and an effective free hand in dealing with the Palestinian terrorists who had been murdering its innocent civilians as the second intifada dragged on throughout 2001.

It’s not surprising that the New Jersey housewife who first spotted the five Israelis and their white van wants to preserve her anonymity. She’s insisted that she only be identified as Maria. A neighbour in her apartment building had called her just after the first strike on the Twin Towers. Maria grabbed a pair of binoculars and, like millions across the world, she watched the horror of the day unfold.

As she gazed at the burning towers, she noticed a group of men kneeling on the roof of a white van in her parking lot. Here’s her recollection: “They seemed to be taking a movie. They were like happy, you know ... they didn’t look shocked to me. I thought it was strange.”

Maria jotted down the van’s registration and called the police. The FBI was alerted and soon there was a statewide all points bulletin put out for the apprehension of the van and its occupants. The cops traced the number, establishing that it belonged to a company called Urban Moving.

Police Chief John Schmidig said: “We got an alert to be on the lookout for a white Chevrolet van with New Jersey registration and writing on the side. Three individuals were seen celebrating in Liberty State Park after the impact. They said three people were jumping up and down.”

By 4pm on the afternoon of September 11, the van was spotted near New Jersey’s Giants stadium. A squad car pulled it over and inside were five men in their 20s. They were hustled out of the car with guns levelled at their heads and handcuffed.

In the car was $4700 in cash, a couple of foreign passports and a pair of box cutters – the concealed Stanley Knife-type blades used by the 19 hijackers who’d flown jetliners into the World Trade Centre and Pentagon just hours before. There were also fresh pictures of the men standing with the smouldering wreckage of the Twin Towers in the background. One image showed a hand flicking a lighter in front of the devastated buildings, like a fan at a pop concert. The driver of the van then told the arresting officers: “We are Israeli. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem.”



His name was Sivan Kurzberg. The other four passengers were Kurzberg’s brother Paul, Yaron Shmuel, Oded Ellner and Omer Marmari. The men were dragged off to prison and transferred out of the custody of the FBI’s Criminal Division and into the hands of their Foreign Counterintelligence Section – the bureau’s anti-espionage squad.

A warrant was issued for a search of the Urban Moving premises in Weehawken in New Jersey. Boxes of papers and computers were removed. The FBI questioned the firm’s Israeli owner, Dominik Otto Suter, but when agents returned to re-interview him a few days later, he was gone. An employee of Urban Moving said his co-workers had laughed about the Manhattan attacks the day they happened. “I was in tears,” the man said. “These guys were joking and that bothered me. These guys were like, ‘Now America knows what we go through.’”

Vince Cannistraro, former chief of operations for counter-terrorism with the CIA, says the red flag went up among investigators when it was discovered that some of the Israelis’ names were found in a search of the national intelligence database. Cannistraro says many in the US intelligence community believed that some of the Israelis were working for Mossad and there was speculation over whether Urban Moving had been “set up or exploited for the purpose of launching an intelligence operation against radical Islamists”.

This makes it clear that there was no suggestion whatsoever from within American intelligence that the Israelis were colluding with the 9/11 hijackers – simply that the possibility remains that they knew the attacks were going to happen, but effectively did nothing to help stop them.

After the owner vanished, the offices of Urban Moving looked as if they’d been closed down in a big hurry. Mobile phones were littered about, the office phones were still connected and the property of at least a dozen clients were stacked up in the warehouse. The owner had cleared out his family home in New Jersey and returned to Israel.

Two weeks after their arrest, the Israelis were still in detention, held on immigration charges. Then a judge ruled that they should be deported. But the CIA scuppered the deal and the five remained in custody for another two months. Some went into solitary confinement, all underwent two polygraph tests and at least one underwent up to seven lie detector sessions before they were eventually deported at the end of November 2001. Paul Kurzberg refused to take a lie detector test for 10 weeks, but then failed it. His lawyer said he was reluctant to take the test as he had once worked for Israeli intelligence in another country.

Nevertheless, their lawyer, Ram Horvitz, dismissed the allegations as “stupid and ridiculous”. Yet US government sources still maintained that the Israelis were collecting information on the fundraising activities of groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Mark Regev, of the Israeli embassy in Washington, would have none of that and he said the allegations were “simply false”. The men themselves claimed they’d read about the World Trade Centre attacks on the internet, couldn’t see it from their office and went to the parking lot for a better view. Their lawyers and the embassy say their ghoulish and sinister celebrations as the Twin Towers blazed and thousands died were due to youthful foolishness.

The respected New York Jewish newspaper, The Forward, reported in March 2002, however, that it had received a briefing on the case of the five Israelis from a US official who was regularly updated by law enforcement agencies. This is what he told The Forward: “The assessment was that Urban Moving Systems was a front for the Mossad and operatives employed by it.” He added that “the conclusion of the FBI was that they were spying on local Arabs”, but the men were released because they “did not know anything about 9/11”.



Back in Israel, several of the men discussed what happened on an Israeli talk show. One of them made this remarkable comment: “The fact of the matter is we are coming from a country that experiences terror daily. Our purpose was to document the event.” But how can you document an event unless you know it is going to happen?

We are now deep in conspiracy theory territory. But there is more than a little circumstantial evidence to show that Mossad – whose motto is “By way of deception, thou shalt do war” – was spying on Arab extremists in the USA and may have known that September 11 was in the offing, yet decided to withhold vital information from their American counterparts which could have prevented the terror attacks.

Following September 11, 2001, more than 60 Israelis were taken into custody under the Patriot Act and immigration laws. One highly placed investigator told Carl Cameron of Fox News that there were “tie-ins” between the Israelis and September 11; the hint was clearly that they’d gathered intelligence on the planned attacks but kept it to themselves.

The Fox News source refused to give details, saying: “Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It’s classified information.” Fox News is not noted for its condemnation of Israel; it’s a ruggedly patriotic news channel owned by Rupert Murdoch and was President Bush’s main cheerleader in the war on terror and the invasion of Iraq.

Another group of around 140 Israelis were detained prior to September 11, 2001, in the USA as part of a widespread investigation into a suspected espionage ring run by Israel inside the USA. Government documents refer to the spy ring as an “organised intelligence-gathering operation” designed to “penetrate government facilities”. Most of those arrested had served in the Israeli armed forces – but military service is compulsory in Israel. Nevertheless, a number had an intelligence background.

The first glimmerings of an Israeli spying exercise in the USA came to light in spring 2001, when the FBI sent a warning to other federal agencies alerting them to be wary of visitors calling themselves “Israeli art students” and attempting to bypass security at federal buildings in order to sell paintings. A Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) report suggested the Israeli calls “may well be an organised intelligence-gathering activity”. Law enforcement documents say that the Israelis “targeted and penetrated military bases” as well as the DEA, FBI and dozens of government facilities, including secret offices and the unlisted private homes of law enforcement and intelligence personnel.



A number of Israelis questioned by the authorities said they were students from Bezalel Academy of Art and Design, but Pnina Calpen, a spokeswoman for the Israeli school, did not recognise the names of any Israelis mentioned as studying there in the past 10 years. A federal report into the so-called art students said many had served in intelligence and electronic signal intercept units during their military service.

According to a 61-page report, drafted after an investigation by the DEA and the US immigration service, the Israelis were organised into cells of four to six people. The significance of what the Israelis were doing didn’t emerge until after September 11, 2001, when a report by a French intelligence agency noted “according to the FBI, Arab terrorists and suspected terror cells lived in Phoenix, Arizona, as well as in Miami and Hollywood, Florida, from December 2000 to April 2001 in direct proximity to the Israeli spy cells”.

The report contended that Mossad agents were spying on Mohammed Atta and Marwan al-Shehi, two of leaders of the 9/11 hijack teams. The pair had settled in Hollywood, Florida, along with three other hijackers, after leaving Hamburg – where another Mossad team was operating close by.

Hollywood in Florida is a town of just 25,000 souls. The French intelligence report says the leader of the Mossad cell in Florida rented apartments “right near the apartment of Atta and al-Shehi”. More than a third of the Israeli “art students” claimed residence in Florida. Two other Israelis connected to the art ring showed up in Fort Lauderdale. At one time, eight of the hijackers lived just north of the town.

Put together, the facts do appear to indicate that Israel knew that 9/11, or at least a large-scale terror attack, was about to take place on American soil, but did nothing to warn the USA. But that’s not quite true. In August 2001, the Israelis handed over a list of terrorist suspects – on it were the names of four of the September 11 hijackers. Significantly, however, the warning said the terrorists were planning an attack “outside the United States”.

The Israeli embassy in Washington has dismissed claims about the spying ring as “simply untrue”. The same denials have been issued repeatedly by the five Israelis seen high-fiving each other as the World Trade Centre burned in front of them.

Their lawyer, Ram Horwitz, insisted his clients were not intelligence officers. Irit Stoffer, the Israeli foreign minister, said the allegations were “completely untrue”. She said the men were arrested because of “visa violations”, adding: “The FBI investigated those cases because of 9/11.”

Jim Margolin, an FBI spokesman in New York, implied that the public would never know the truth, saying: “If we found evidence of unauthorised intelligence operations that would be classified material.” Yet, Israel has long been known, according to US administration sources, for “conducting the most aggressive espionage operations against the US of any US ally”. Seventeen years ago, Jonathan Pollard, a civilian working for the American Navy, was jailed for life for passing secrets to Israel. At first, Israel claimed Pollard was part of a rogue operation, but the government later took responsibility for his work.

It has always been a long-accepted agreement among allies – such as Britain and America or America and Israel – that neither country will jail a “friendly spy” nor shame the allied country for espionage. Chip Berlet, a senior analyst at Boston’s Political Research Associates and an expert in intelligence, says: “It’s a backdoor agreement between allies that says that if one of your spies gets caught and didn’t do too much harm, he goes home. It goes on all the time. The official reason is always visa violation.”

What we are left with, then, is fact sullied by innuendo. Certainly, it seems, Israel was spying within the borders of the United States and it is equally certain that the targets were Islamic extremists probably linked to September 11. But did Israel know in advance that the Twin Towers would be hit and the world plunged into a war without end; a war which would give Israel the power to strike its enemies almost without limit? That’s a conspiracy theory too far, perhaps. But the unpleasant feeling that, in this age of spin and secrets, we do not know the full and unadulterated truth won’t go away. Maybe we can guess, but it’s for the history books to discover and decide.

[UoUo]

:cantbeli:

[American Patriot]

Let me light your crack rock, Rebel 7.

[Caraway]

Sounds like a perfect plan to destroy Israel... Militaryphotos.net sounds like a perfect place for disinformation...

[S'13]

http://ww1.sundayherald.com/37707

I guess the Sunday herald is "anti-semitic"as well?

S**t! Your on to us...

:roll: rofl :cantbeli:

Sethen, if you will look up the definition of the word 'contentious' in the dictionary, you will simply find a picture of yourself...

[Rebel 7]

http://ww1.sundayherald.com/37707

I guess the Sunday herald is "anti-semitic"as well?

This shouldn't come as a surprise to those who know how Mossad functions. I mean its motto is: "By way of deception, thou shalt do war."

The US is seen as a dog to them and they see themselves as the tail trying to wag the dog. Without US military hardware and support, Israel wouldn't last very long and Mossad knows that. How sad and ironic that the nation who supports a friend, ends up having the friend laugh and celebrate in their face during their worst tradegy in history. I mean, people were in tears, mothers crying, wives, sisters, brothers, fathers, and here were these guys celebrating because their little Israel was on the advantage. I wonder how our American friends will react now?

If a friend helped you and basically was the factor to your survival, would you laugh and celebrate when that friend suffered the greatest tradegy in its history? I know I wouldn't and if a friend of mine did this, he wouldn't be alive to talk about it.

The article is old and I remember reading it a year after 9/11 and it didn't shock me as I was aware of the deception Mossad uses to wage wars and make itself look justified.

btw....I know many Jews who do not support the illegal occupation of Palestine, who do not support Zionists, and who are very intelligent people who understand the politics and ethical factors regarding the Israel-Palestine war......

A thief forces his way into your house, takes up residence and kicks you, your wife, and your children out of your own house...what the hell are you going to do? Sit there and let it happen, or do whatever you can to liberate your house from the thief.......its common sense....I don't know why people hate on the Palestinian's who are resisting the occupation of their country......

[Rebel 7]

There is a saying that goes, "Stupidity is better kept shut." I think those who insult or make jokes about such an issue especially if they are American need psychological help. I ain't American, I don't live in the US, but I cannot comprehend what would make a bunch of Israeli agents (symbols of its military) laugh at your face when you suffered the worst tradegy in history. Do you even care?

[UkrainianAmerican]

:cantbeli:

[Rebel 7]

http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=5156

WAM: Busted! Mossad Exposed
Mossad Exposed In Phony 'Palestinian Al Qaeda' Caper
By Michele Steinberg and Hussein Askary



The United States government has been provided with concrete evidence that the Israeli Mossad and other Israeli intelligence services have been involved in a 13-month effort to "recruit" an Israeli-run, phony "al Qaeda cell" among Palestinians, so that Israel could achieve a frontline position in the U.S. war against terrorism and get a green light for a worldwide "revenge without borders" policy. The question: Does the United States have the moral fiber to investigate?

Evidence of the Israeli dirty tricks burst onto the public scene on December 6, when Col. Rashid Abu Shbak, head of the Palestinian Preventive Security Services in the Gaza Strip, held a press conference revealing the details of the alleged plot, as his agency had put the pieces together.

The revelations undermine the "big lie" that Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has used to justify new brutal attacks on Palestinian civilians in the Gaza Strip and other occupied areas. Sharon claimed on December 4 that Israeli intelligence had "hard evidence" of al Qaeda operations in the Gaza Strip. Now, the top Palestinian leadership has shown the United States and other nations how Israeli intelligence entities were creating that al Qaeda link!

American leader Lyndon LaRouche, a Democratic Presidential pre-candidate in 2004, commented that these revelations, if confirmed, could be "of strategic importance" in stopping the American, British and Israeli warhawks pushing for a Middle East war, beginning with an invasion of Iraq. A war would justify the Sharon government's plan to annihilate the very idea of a Palestinian state.

LaRouche warned that if institutions of the American Presidency and the international community successfully block an American pre-emptive war on Iraq, the biggest danger would be that a "mega-terror" attack, blamed on Palestinians, or an "Iraqi-linked" al Qaeda, would be staged by Israel's ruling Jabotinskyite fanatics, to put the war back on the agenda.

News about the Mossad-run attempt to create an al Qaeda cell came when well-informed intelligence sources based in Washington had already told the Executive Intelligence Review (EIR) that there are many doubts about the Mossad's hasty declaration that "al Qaeda" had been responsible for the November 28 attack on a hotel in Mombasa, Kenya, where three Israelis were killed, and the failed rocket attack on an Israeli chartered jet that was departing from Mombasa airport.

There was no identification of the bombers within the first five days of the incident, the sources pointed out, yet Sharon's government ministers went on an immediate propaganda rampage announcing worldwide revenge. Authorities in Kenya also denied the al Qaeda link. But the usefulness of blaming al Qaeda, for the Israeli right, was palpable, when Foreign Minister Benjamin Netanyahu called the Kenya attacks "a golden opportunity" to prove to the United States that Bush's war on terrorism, and Israel's war with the Palestinians is the same thing. Netanyahu's faction has violently rejected the Palestinian Authority's revelations, and so far, the American and European press have followed suit, despite the dramatic nature of these charges, and the documents that the Palestinians have provided to the international press.

Chronology of the Revelations
On December 7, the British news service, *******, the Israeli daily Ha'aretz, and Qatar-based Al-Jazeera TV network, all reported that the Palestinian Authority had accused the Mossad of creating a phony al Qaeda cell in the Gaza Strip. Ha'aretz reported, "the head of Palestinian Preventive Security" in the Gaza Strip, Col. Rashid Abu Shbak, said on December 6, "that his forces had identified a number of Palestinian collaborators who had been ordered by Israeli security agencies to 'work in the Gaza Strip under the name of al Qaeda.' He said the investigation was ongoing and evidence would be presented soon." Al-Jazeera TV added that the Palestinian authorities had arrested a group of Palestinian "collaborators with Israeli occupation" in Gaza, involved in the operation.

*******' reporter Diala Saadeh, under the headline, "Palestinians: Israel Faked Gaza al-Qaeda Presence," quoted a number of Palestinian Authority (P.A.) senior officials, including President Yasser Arafat, who told reporters at his West Bank Ramallah headquarters, that Sharon's claims of al Qaeda operations in Palestinian territories "is a big, big, big lie to cover [Sharon's] attacks and his crimes against our people everywhere." P.A. Information Minister Yasser Abed Rabbo detailed the case:


"There are certain elements who were instructed by the Mossad to form a cell under the name of al Qaeda in the Gaza Strip in order to justify the assault and the military campaigns of the Israeli occupation army against Gaza."

Palestinian officials promised to provide detailed evidence, and did so on December 8, in a press conference addressed by Colonel Shbak, and by Palestinian Minister for Planning and International Cooperation Nabil Shaath. Shbak told the international representatives that, "Over the past nine months, we've been investigating eight cases in which Israeli intelligence posing as al Qaeda operatives recruited Palestinians in the Gaza Strip." Colonel Shbak said that three men were under arrest, and 11 had been released.

He explained that those released had voluntarily provided information going back to May 2002, about the contacts that had been made asking them to operate as an "al Qaeda" group. The alleged al Qaeda recruiters were traced to Israeli intelligence, said Colonel Shbak. He detailed incidents, some of which were described in official documents, of cell phone calls and e-mails, where Palestinians were asked to "join al Qaeda." Shbak said, "We investigated the origin of those calls, which used [wireless phone] roaming, and messages, and found out they all came from Israel," reported the publication IslamOnline. He said that the potential "recruits," had been given money and weapons, "although most of these weapons did not even work." He also noted that the money for these targeted Palestinians "was transferred from bank accounts in Jerusalem or Israel."

Minister Shaath announced at the press conference that the P.A. had "handed ambassadors and consuls of the Arab and foreign countries, documents revealing the involvement of the Israeli intelligence in recruiting citizens from Gaza Strip in a fake organization carrying the name of Qaeda." He said the ploy was intended "to create a new excuse to escalate the aggression on Gaza Strip."

[UkrainianAmerican]

*waiting, until idfm203 rips a bunch of new assholes*

[Rebel 7]

Betrayal behind Israeli attack on U.S. ship
By Adm. Thomas Moorer – Houston Chronicle January 9, 2004

After State Department officials and historians assembled in Washington, D.C., last week to discuss the 1967 war in the Middle East, I am compelled to speak out about one of U.S. history's most shocking cover-ups.

On June 8, 1967, Israel attacked our proud naval ship the USS Liberty killing 34 American servicemen and wounding 172. Those men were then betrayed and left to die by our own government.

U.S. military rescue aircraft were recalled, not once, but twice, through direct intervention by the Johnson administration. Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara's cancellation of the Navy's attempt to rescue the Liberty, which I personally confirmed from the commanders of the aircraft carriers America and Saratoga, was the most disgraceful act I witnessed in my entire military career.

To add insult to injury, Congress, to this day, has failed to hold formal hearings on Israel's attack on this American ship. No official investigation of Israel's attack has ever permitted the testimony of the surviving crew members.

A 1967 investigation by the Navy, upon which all other reports are based, has now been fully discredited as a cover-up by its senior attorney. Capt. Ward Boston, in a sworn affidavit, recently revealed that the court was ordered by the White House to cover up the incident and find that Israel's attack was "a case of mistaken identity."
Some distinguished colleagues and I formed an independent commission to investigate the attack on the USS Liberty. After an exhaustive review of previous reports, naval and other military records, including eyewitness testimony from survivors, we recently presented our findings on Capitol Hill. They include:

€ Israeli reconnaissance aircraft closely studied the <>Liberty<> during an eight-hour period prior to the attack, one flying within 200 feet of the ship. Weather reports confirm the day was clear with unlimited visibility. The Liberty was a clearly marked American ship in international waters, flying an American flag and carrying large U.S. Navy hull letters and numbers on its bow.

Despite claims by Israeli intelligence that they confused the Liberty with a small Egyptian transport, the <>Liberty<> was conspicuously different from any vessel in the Egyptian navy. It was the most sophisticated intelligence ship in the world in 1967. With its massive radio antennae, including a large satellite dish, it looked like a large lobster and was one of the most easily identifiable ships afloat.

€ Israel attempted to prevent the Liberty's radio operators from sending a call for help by jamming American emergency radio channels.

€ Israeli torpedo boats machine-gunned lifeboats at close range that had been lowered to rescue the most seriously wounded. As a result, our commission concluded that:

€ There is compelling evidence that Israel's attack was a deliberate attempt to destroy an American ship and kill her entire crew.

€ In attacking the USS Liberty, Israel committed acts of murder against U.S. servicemen and an act of war against the United
States.

€ The White House knowingly covered up the facts of this attack from the American people.

€ The truth continues to be concealed to the present day in what can only be termed a national disgrace.

What was Israel's motive in launching this attack? Congress must address this question with full cooperation from the National Security Agency, the Central Intelligence Agency and the military intelligence services.

The men of the USS Liberty represented the United States. They were attacked for two hours, causing 70 percent of American casualties, and the eventual loss of our best intelligence ship.

These sailors and Marines were entitled to our best defense. We gave them no defense.

Did our government put Israel's interests ahead of our own? If so, why? Does our government continue to subordinate American interests to Israeli interests? These are important questions that should be investigated by an independent, fully empowered
commission of the American government.

The American people deserve to know the truth about this attack. We must finally shed some light on one of the blackest pages in American naval history. It is a duty we owe not only to the brave men of the USS Liberty, but to every man and woman who is asked to wear the uniform of the United States.

Moorer was chairman of the joint chiefs of staff from 1970 to 1974. He is joined in the independent commission of inquiry by Gen. Ray Davis (recently deceased); Rear Adm. Merlin Staring; former Judge Advocate General of the Navy and Ambassador James Akins.

[alexjulian]

Rebel 7 beware...we could be onto u next!

[S'13]

This thread should be renamed "The Official Militaryphotos.net Anti-Israeli Conspiracy Theories and Blood Libels Thread"...

[citizen-k]

<------------- :lol:

[Rebel 7]

Rebel 7 beware...we could be onto u next!

:cantbeli: :roll:

[Rebel 7]

This thread should be renamed "The Official Militaryphotos.net Anti-Israeli Conspiracy Theories and Blood Libels Thread"...

If you can argue against these articles and the facts they state....I will argue that everyone pay tribute to your detective work.......rather than just coming on here and posting: "This thread should be blah blah."

:roll:

[citizen-k]

Rebel 7 beware...we could be onto u next!

:cantbeli: :roll:

No, realy, we can.

As you know, Mossad owns the internet - they knew your exact location seconds after you posted your first message on this thread.

Now - RUN!!!! rofl

[Rebel 7]

Rebel 7 beware...we could be onto u next!

:cantbeli: :roll:

No, realy, we can.

As you know, Mossad owns the internet - they knew your exact location seconds after you posted your first message on this thread.

Now - RUN!!!! rofl

Dude, you work for Mossad?! Awesome.....how does it feel like travelling around with fake Canadian passports? It must be cool deceiving people uh?!

[citizen-k]

Rebel 7 beware...we could be onto u next!

:cantbeli: :roll:

No, realy, we can.

As you know, Mossad owns the internet - they knew your exact location seconds after you posted your first message on this thread.

Now - RUN!!!! rofl

Dude, you work for Mossad?! Awesome.....how does it feel like travelling around with fake Canadian passports? It must be cool deceiving people uh?!

Yeah, I'm a Mossad art student rofl

[S'13]

edit

[2Sheds_Jackson]

American leader Lyndon LaRouche, a Democratic Presidential pre-candidate in 2004, commented that these revelations, if confirmed, could be "of strategic importance" in stopping the American, British and Israeli warhawks pushing for a Middle East war, beginning with an invasion of Iraq. A war would justify the Sharon government's plan to annihilate the very idea of a Palestinian state.

Lyndon LaRouche bwahahaha ha ha hahaha ha rofl

OMG that nut job has been around forever - I met him in NH in 1988. He was a wacko then, and he's a wacko now.

Jeezus, you'll have to come up with something better than this silly garbage. Go back to chasing black helicopters.

[Rebel 7]

Let me make a few things clear:

1) If anyone can prove these articles as lies or prove their arguments as incorrect, I will be the first to congradulate them on their good detective work. I am not the type of person who will continue to hold a view if someone proves it wrong. I feel that if a view is wrong or if it is held by false evidence, then that view should be disposed of.

2) I think that if Israel was not formed out of the illegal occupation of Palestinian lands, that today it would be a marvel. The country has some of the most beautiful hotels, beaches, etc. However, even I myself cannot feel justified in forcing myself into someones house, kicking them out and living in their house without my conscious telling me that this is morally wrong.

3) Those who have a sense of morality do not base justice on the race of people.

[Rebel 7]

American leader Lyndon LaRouche, a Democratic Presidential pre-candidate in 2004, commented that these revelations, if confirmed, could be "of strategic importance" in stopping the American, British and Israeli warhawks pushing for a Middle East war, beginning with an invasion of Iraq. A war would justify the Sharon government's plan to annihilate the very idea of a Palestinian state.

Lyndon LaRouche bwahahaha ha ha hahaha ha rofl

OMG that nut job has been around forever - I met him in NH in 1988. He was a wacko then, and he's a wacko now.

Jeezus, you'll have to come up with something better than this silly garbage. Go back to chasing black helicopters.

Your post has proved 3 things:

1) You like to laugh a lot.

2) You think that LaRoche is crazy.

3) You can't spell Jesus.

With that said, your post hasn't proved that what he claims are lies or incorrect.
Bro, I would love to hear your arguments against his. If you can crush his arguments and make him look stupid the intelligent way (by showing the flaws in his arguments), then I will not accept his arguments as valid.
Simple as that!

[Rebel 7]

Rebel 7 beware...we could be onto u next!

:cantbeli: :roll:

No, realy, we can.

As you know, Mossad owns the internet - they knew your exact location seconds after you posted your first message on this thread.

Now - RUN!!!! rofl

Dude, you work for Mossad?! Awesome.....how does it feel like travelling around with fake Canadian passports? It must be cool deceiving people uh?!

Yeah, I'm a Mossad art student rofl

Cool. :D

[Rebel 7]

I don't know if anyone knows this but Afghanistan did have a Jewish community and they were as much Afghan as the rest. After the war, most left, and during the Taliban era, there were only two Jews in all of Afghanistan. They both hated each other that one or the other would often go to the Taliban and complain that the other committed a sin, so that the Taliban could punish him. The only time the two would get together was during a Jewish hoilday. I had an article on this....if I find it...I'll post it.....

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Rebel7 -

My dong is made of solid gold. Prove me wrong.

[UkrainianAmerican]

Rebel7 -

My dong is made of solid gold. Prove me wrong.
I wanna party with you! :lol:

[IDFM203]

Ok I see Rebel7 up and decided to go on his own personal Jihad on us :roll:

“Idbach al Yahud”….right? :roll:


*waiting, until idfm203 rips a bunch of new assholes*hehe thanks for the vote of confidence.

Well I am going to keep it short (well for my standards) for when its gets this stupid well its rather pointless answering this garbage in a point by point manner.


To Rebel7…..

First, oh the Mossad uses deception, oh gees who would have thought a spy agency uses deception :roll: …I guess only the Mossad does that :cantbeli: (in case you didnt realize that was sarcasm)

As for pollard, understand that he did not spy on the U.S. but rather he stole satellite images on your brother’s nations that have fought for years to destroy us (and still do).
Was it wrong yes, did he get punished yes, I guess its just like all the U.S. spies in Israel that get punished and are sitting in Israeli jails :roll:

As for laughing after 911……wow :cantbeli: no the only ones laughing at the U.S. in the middle east was your brethren dancing in the streets celebrating openly for all those deaths of those innocent man women and children that SOME of your brethren murdered.

The last things MOST Israeli would do is laugh at the U.S. for that tragedy unlike your brethren that did in fact do it!!

Then there is the favorite amongst your type, the liberty spy ship incident, well I address every point about it Here (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4684&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=liberty&start=0)

Go read the whole thread.

Lastly as for your articles, they don’t have proof to a single thing. So as such it’s absurd for me to address this Moron and his convoluted theories that he concocted.

Shalom :D

[Rebel 7]

Rebel7 -

My dong is made of solid gold. Prove me wrong.

You haven't proved anything aside from a kinky fetish for gold dongs.
Dude, where is the common sense? Somebody claims that Mike Tyson has a manly voice....are you going to believe that without evidence?!

[StarvingStudent47]

Rebel7 -

My dong is made of solid gold. Prove me wrong.

You haven't proved anything aside from a kinky fetish for gold dongs.
Dude, where is the common sense? Somebody claims that Mike Tyson has a manly voice....are you going to believe that without evidence?!

We'll make it easier then.

I'm married. Prove me wrong.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Yeah, he seems a bit dim. Please all continue to help out here...

The Chinese have a massive army hidden in the Mojave desert, just waiting to attack the US. Prove me wrong.

[Rebel 7]

Ok I see Rebel7 up and decided to go on his own personal Jihad on us :roll:

“Idbach al Yahud”….right? :roll:


*waiting, until idfm203 rips a bunch of new assholes*hehe thanks for the vote of confidence.

Well I am going to keep it short (well for my standards) for when its gets this stupid well its rather pointless answering this garbage in a point by point manner.


To Rebel7…..

First, oh the Mossad uses deception, oh gees who would have thought a spy agency uses deception :roll: …I guess only the Mossad does that :cantbeli: (in case you didnt realize that was sarcasm)

As for pollard, understand that he did not spy on the U.S. but rather he stole satellite images on your brother’s nations that have fought for years to destroy us (and still do).
Was it wrong yes, did he get punished yes, I guess its just like all the U.S. spies in Israel that get punished and are sitting in Israeli jails :roll:

As for laughing after 911……wow :cantbeli: no the only ones laughing at the U.S. in the middle east was your brethren dancing in the streets celebrating openly for all those deaths of those innocent man women and children that SOME of your brethren murdered.

The last things MOST Israeli would do is laugh at the U.S. for that tragedy unlike your brethren that did in fact do it!!

Then there is the favorite amongst your type, the liberty spy ship incident, well I address every point about it Here (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4684&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=liberty&start=0)

Go read the whole thread.

Lastly as for your articles, they don’t have proof to a single thing. So as such it’s absurd for me to address this Moron and his convoluted theories that he concocted.

Shalom :D


“Idbach al Yahud”….right?

I wouldn't know dude....I don't speak Arabic......for the simple fact that I am NOT arab....but in farsi you would say, "Jihad bar zede Yahud" but since in Afghanistan our war was against Talibs and Pakistan we would say, "Jihad bar zede Taliban wa Pakistan."


First, oh the Mossad uses deception, oh gees who would have thought a spy agency uses deception :roll: …I guess only the Mossad does that :cantbeli: (in case you didnt realize that was sarcasm)

If deception is considered okay in your standards to justify illegal acts, than why would you expect your enemies to act justly against you. I mean, I hear all this talk about who is right and just and who is wrong and who isn't (in this fight between Israel and Palestine) but if you are going to just come out and say, "Hell yeah, there is nothing wrong with using deception to commit wrongful actions"..then that doesn't really portray you guys as the justified ones.


As for laughing after 911……wow :cantbeli: no the only ones laughing at the U.S. in the middle east was your brethren dancing in the streets celebrating openly for all those deaths of those innocent man women and children that SOME of your brethren murdered.

The last things MOST Israeli would do is laugh at the U.S. for that tragedy unlike your brethren that did in fact do it!!

You haven't proven the article wrong! You just merely expressed your opinion here. Is there evidence out there that states that these guys who were arrested were not Jews and that two of them were not Mossad agents? Is there evidence that states that these guys did NOT laugh or celebrate during the incident? The fact is that there are numerous sources, names taken, police reports, that indicate that these five guys were Jews and that two of them were Mossad agents. If you don't have evidence to counter these claims than your claims are worthless. If you do have evidence, please post it.


SOME of your brethren murdered.

Brethren? Dude, Al Qaida and Taliban have killed more Afghans than they have killed Jews or Americans. Why the **** would I consider them my brethern? I am Afghan not Arab. Plus aren't Jews and Arabs ancesterial cousins? Thus, there are your brethren, not MINE!


Go read the whole thread.

I will and hopefully there is some evidence to back up your claims unlike this post of yours.


Lastly as for your articles, they don’t have proof to a single thing. So as such it’s absurd for me to address this Moron and his convoluted theories that he concocted.

I am looking into that "moron's" claims since no one else seems to be interested in doing it for me, and trying to find out if it holds....for now I can't comment on how effective his claims are. As for your claims, you merely counter argue his with further claims without evidence for what you are arguing.

One question for you and please anwer this seriously:
Do you feel it is morally right to force a people out of their land and take up residence there? What are you views on what is moral and immoral in regards to this issue?

[Rebel 7]

Rebel7 -

My dong is made of solid gold. Prove me wrong.

You haven't proved anything aside from a kinky fetish for gold dongs.
Dude, where is the common sense? Somebody claims that Mike Tyson has a manly voice....are you going to believe that without evidence?!

We'll make it easier then.

I'm married. Prove me wrong.

Dude, read what I wrote...here let me make it simple for you and repeat it: "Somebody claims that Mike Tyson has a manly voice....are you going to believe that without evidence?!"
My friend the key word here is evidence....and the articles contain evidence that can be pursued if you have the money and time to pursue it.....but your claim is as valuable as the National Enquirer's report that Michael Jackson didn't have plastic surgery........

[Rebel 7]

Yeah, he seems a bit dim. Please all continue to help out here...

The Chinese have a massive army hidden in the Mojave desert, just waiting to attack the US. Prove me wrong.

Dude, you are not suffering from attention deficit disorder now are you? Read what I wrote carefully man....
The key word in my post was "evidence"......in case you overlook it the second time you read it....

[Maine Finn]

Yeah, he seems a bit dim. Please all continue to help out here...

The Chinese have a massive army hidden in the Mojave desert, just waiting to attack the US. Prove me wrong.

Dude, you are not suffering from attention deficit disorder now are you? Read what I wrote carefully man....
The key word in my post was "evidence"......in case you overlook it the second time you read it....

Be careful how you toss that around. It's not something you would want to have to live with, believe me, and it's definitely not funny.

[Rebel 7]

Yeah, he seems a bit dim. Please all continue to help out here...

The Chinese have a massive army hidden in the Mojave desert, just waiting to attack the US. Prove me wrong.

Dude, you are not suffering from attention deficit disorder now are you? Read what I wrote carefully man....
The key word in my post was "evidence"......in case you overlook it the second time you read it....

Be careful how you toss that around. It's not something you would want to have to live with, believe me, and it's definitely not funny.

I do apologize bro. I did not mean to offend you. It won't happen again.

[Maine Finn]

Be careful how you toss that around. It's not something you would want to have to live with, believe me, and it's definitely not funny.

I do apologize bro. I did not mean to offend you. It won't happen again.

I'm not offended. I'm just saying be careful what you say. ADD is an absolute bitch to deal with. I'd be on Dean's List easy if I didn't have to fight with this crap. :(

[UkrainianAmerican]

Be careful how you toss that around. It's not something you would want to have to live with, believe me, and it's definitely not funny.

I do apologize bro. I did not mean to offend you. It won't happen again.

I'm not offended. I'm just saying be careful what you say. ADD is an absolute bitch to deal with. I'd be on Dean's List easy if I didn't have to fight with this crap. :(
Yeah a REALLY close friend of mine had it since 4. Hes improving a lot though right now, and Ridalin could really mean the difference between succeding in school or failing it.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

This is getting painful.

In the real world outside of conspiracy theory nut jobs, there's this thing called "peer review". And what that means is that you should be able to find mainstream sources for all your arguments. Such as the NYT, the WSJ, Time, CNN, MSNBC - a multitude of reputable, if slightly flawed outlets. They check each other out. Verify sources...to keep each other honest.

Think of the money to be made by one of these outlets that proves the others are all lying! So they vigorously fact check. in fact, there are people employed at these places, not reporters, who are called "fact checkers". And three guesses as to what they do! They don't work for the reporters, they work for the editor. Editors use them to make sure the reporters aren't being misled or deliberately lying. So the system works.

Now, back to the important issue...my wang.

See, you're asking for evidence that my wang is made of gold. That's entirely reasonable, because most wangs are not made of gold. It would be surprising, to find someone with a golden wang. So you want proof. Evidence.

But apart from my statement about my glorious bejeweled golden wang, there IS no evidence. You have only my typed letters here as proof. Not good enough, is it?

Now, what if you could go to a major newspaper's website, or to CNN.com and find an article, maybe even a picture of my glistening member? Why then you'd have your proof! But alas, it's a lie. My dipstick is like any other- 13 inches long and made of paly-doh.

And see, you come on here making these ridiculous, golden-wang like claims yourself. And you have provided no evidence either.

And instead of you providing any evidence (no the ludicrous 7th-grade level fiction you've posted from some conspiracy theory website does not count as evidence to grown ups), you say "prove me wrong".

Which is exactly what I did! See! It's a form of humor! And now you've failed to even grasp that concept.

But you can't prove it. All you can do is point to fringe garbage websites. So, we'll be waiting while you find that New York Times article proving that Jews brought down the towers. Until then, we'll all know that you too are merely play-doh.

[Maine Finn]

Be careful how you toss that around. It's not something you would want to have to live with, believe me, and it's definitely not funny.

I do apologize bro. I did not mean to offend you. It won't happen again.

I'm not offended. I'm just saying be careful what you say. ADD is an absolute bitch to deal with. I'd be on Dean's List easy if I didn't have to fight with this crap. :(
Yeah a REALLY close friend of mine had it since 4. Hes improving a lot though right now, and Ridalin could really mean the difference between succeding in school or failing it.

Ritalin is a joke. It worked for me for a couple of months, then gave up. I was on Paxil for awhile during high school as well. It was the only drug that's made a notable difference for me.

[IDFM203]

First, oh the Mossad uses deception, oh gees who would have thought a spy agency uses deception :roll: …I guess only the Mossad does that :cantbeli: (in case you didnt realize that was sarcasm)

If deception is considered okay in your standards to justify illegal acts, no a wrong act is wrong act, but it’s a fact of life that ALL spy agencies just by the nature of what they are, are always operating illegally in other countries, I mean spying is illegal just by the nature of it.


Where IMO the difference is that the Mossad tries to act morally right and ONLY targets murderess and killers or those that want to destroy us, now is the Mossad, perfect? No (as no one is) does the Mossad makes mistakes? Yes (as everyone does), however IMO overall its has acted just in what is acceptable behaviors for what a spy agency does MOST of the time!!


As for laughing after 911……wow :cantbeli: no the only ones laughing at the U.S. in the middle east was your brethren dancing in the streets celebrating openly for all those deaths of those innocent man women and children that SOME of your brethren murdered.

The last things MOST Israeli would do is laugh at the U.S. for that tragedy unlike your brethren that did in fact do it!!



You haven't proven the article wrong! what article? I mean where did he prove that Israelis celebrated??

Can you prove that Israelis celebrated on that day??

I Mean I can prove that your brethren celebrated (just ask and I will show you some pics)

He (and you) made claims but no proof and as such the burden of proof is on YOU to provide the proof and not on me.


The fact is that there are numerous sources, names taken, police reports, that indicate that these five guys were Jews and that two of them were Mossad agents.
Stop right there….ok where is the evidence that they were Mossad agents.

Secondly where is the evidence that the Mossad knew about 911???? or that we brought down the towers???

Show it to me.

You haven’t shown me evidence at all for me even to bother to try to counter.

Again “He (and you) made claims but no proof and as such the burden of proof is on YOU to provide the proof and not on me.


SOME of your brethren murdered.


Brethren When I say brethren I am referring to Muslim brethren where IMO you all share a commem theme for the most part with regards to Israel.

As for your claims, you merely counter argue his with further claims without evidence for what you are arguing.
He brought no evidence to anything and as such I didn’t address it.

He has opinions and I have mine.

IMO my opinions at least put things in proper perceptive.

And again (now for the third time)

“He (and you) made claims but no proof and as such the burden of proof is on YOU to provide the proof and not on me”


One question for you and please anwer this seriously:
Do you feel it is morally right to force a people out of their land and take up residence there? What are you views on what is moral and immoral in regards to this issue? Can I ask you a question, do you feel its morally right to lie about this?

My view is that after the Arabs rejected to live in coexistence with Israel, then 7 Arab nations invaded to kill every Jew, and as such a lot of them fled at the behest of their Arab brethren, those that chose to stay were granted Israeli citizenship to where there are over 1 million Israeli Arabs, hardly an act of expulsion (I mean if we were doing that, we wouldn’t accapt anyone).

Now IMO still a lot of them still want to destroy the WHOLE Israel and they still actively fight for that and a lot of them support them that do.

(You know I have gone over this a few times already and I brought down numerous proofs and a lot more details to back up what I just said, I suggest you search my posts on this to see some of them)

Her are a few questions of me to you..

Do you feel its morally right for the Arabs in the past to fight in a effort to Kill EVERY Jew?

Also at the same token, do you feel its morally right for the Arabs to expel all the Jews from their nations?? And what did the Jews do in those Arab nations to warrant expulsion??

Anyways I have to go now, so I will try to address anything you say if you do respond later.

Shalom :D

[UkrainianAmerican]

Be careful how you toss that around. It's not something you would want to have to live with, believe me, and it's definitely not funny.

I do apologize bro. I did not mean to offend you. It won't happen again.

I'm not offended. I'm just saying be careful what you say. ADD is an absolute bitch to deal with. I'd be on Dean's List easy if I didn't have to fight with this crap. :(
Yeah a REALLY close friend of mine had it since 4. Hes improving a lot though right now, and Ridalin could really mean the difference between succeding in school or failing it.

Ritalin is a joke. It worked for me for a couple of months, then gave up. I was on Paxil for awhile during high school as well. It was the only drug that's made a notable difference for me.
Well I dont know the details, but he told me it hlped him alot during full period tests.
He took paxil too, and said it was really good overall.

[chauncy republicans]

IDF man I'm sure there were some Jews celebrating the attacks, just as I'm sure there were some Americans celebrating. I dont think anybody will believe this is a popular believe among jews.(If indeed it's true.)
Also (unfortunatly I dont have the source anymore.) allegedly the Mossod actually warned Condoleeza Rice of an impending attack on American soil by Islamic Extremists, her reply was something like...that assumption is unlikely.

[Sayeret]

Rebel 7 your right the Mossad are responsible for all the problems in the world. They killed Princess Diana, caused the earthquake in Turkey, caused AIDs in Africa, created the Al Qaeda, and are causing Global warming.

Btw moron I was being sarcastic if you didn't notice.

[chauncy republicans]

Rebel 7 your right the Mossad are responsible for all the problems in the world. They killed Princess Diana, caused the earthquake in Turkey, caused AIDs in Africa, created the Al Qaeda, and are causing Global warming.

Btw moron I was being sarcastic if you didn't notice.
He's being a lot more civil than most people here that criticize Israeli politics. Maybe you should try and respectfuly debate his argument, instead of insult him.

[SiFiOn]

Don't believe it. Isn't it strange for some Mossad agents to follow the Al-Qaida members almost through the whole world, see an enormous terrorist attack, and than cheer like little boys? No, not very likely to me...

[chauncy republicans]

Don't believe it. Isn't it strange for some Mossad agents to follow the Al-Qaida members almost through the whole world,
rofl :cantbeli: Yeah they get all their intelligence from western media.

[mocking_loudly_died]

Despite all the posturing, it's a good article. Intelligence agencies do not act on a good moral code, they are ruthless bastards - history has proven this. So far peoples counter-action to this article has been through mockery rather than well-balanced analysis.

I don't know the whole story behind that Israelis BUT neither does any one else that is quickly dismissing the points being made - from the replies I don't believe people have been reading it correctly and have been placing to much emphasis on the poster Rebel 7.

Amen.

[Sayeret]

Mocking

type "Mossad" into google if you want to see why I think this article is stupid.

[UkrainianAmerican]

IDF man I'm sure there were some Jews celebrating the attacks, just as I'm sure there were some Americans celebrating. I dont think anybody will believe this is a popular believe among jews.(If indeed it's true.)
Also (unfortunatly I dont have the source anymore.) allegedly the Mossod actually warned Condoleeza Rice of an impending attack on American soil by Islamic Extremists, her reply was something like...that assumption is unlikely.
OK. What reason would any (besides the self-haters, and anti-israeli ones) Jew have to wish bad on American CIVILIANS?
I mean, where did that come from?

[mocking_loudly_died]

Mocking

type "Mossad" into google if you want to see why I think this article is stupid.

Well, it came up with a bunch of loony sites, of cause people with very boring lives like to attach themselves to these "issues" - but it's still very interesting and I'm not going to totally dismiss everything out of hand. Keep an open mind (except when aliens are invading North American farmers).

[citizen-k]

ok.... 9/11:

The planes crashed into the buildings...

How long did it take before the media started talking about planes who crashed into the buildings?
As you know, accept for those who actually SAW the planes crashes - no body knew for several hours what is going on. (So people might NOT start crying 2 minutes after the crashes, simply because they didn't know it was a crash)
As for fliming the event - there are many video tapes of the event, all of them were taken by Mossad agents? :cantbeli:

I don't know if your old enough to remmember - when the Challenger crashed, the school kids of the teacher who was onboard started laughing after the explosion (they tought it was a special effect) - were they all "art students"? ;)

[AirZone]

Heh.. i remember when 9/11 happened everyone talked about it and was really sad in my school and the teachers talked about it like it happened to us and how do we feel about it...

and i remember while whole israel was really sad we saw in the TV that arbs from all over the world (and mainly in palastine) cheered man everyone were so mad on them (i remember i said to my self damn they are sooo dead when USA will get them...)

anyway i agree there is some luntics in every country and like americans that cheered...israeli's...british...french... each.. bu i bet they are very minor because believe me i remember how everything felt after 9/11

and i bet they were all those anti-usa anti-israel like some of the guys in here... :roll:


and mossad.. LOL i remember everyone in the arb world said the mossad is blamed

yeah right we are jews we are blamed for that like everything else :roll:

btw the arbs are not really our bretheren... they came from saudi area (go and learn some history...they are all nomads that came to israel after the roman expelled us so is the palastines)

if you want a REAL bretheren (i mean in the race) you are talking about the bedouins that lived in Israel area... they are REAL semite and they look like the ancient hebrews were (the ancestors of the jewish) but becuase the jews mixed with so many races we dont have the REAL smite look like the bedouins have (thats why we have the hottest chicks inthe world.. so many genes woot)


anyway... mabye you hide behind your nice english but you still sounds like a plain stupid becuase i really laughed when i read that articles...god..dumb people will always stay dumb (sorry if i offend you but you just sound dumb)

[chauncy republicans]

IDF man I'm sure there were some Jews celebrating the attacks, just as I'm sure there were some Americans celebrating. I dont think anybody will believe this is a popular believe among jews.(If indeed it's true.)
Also (unfortunatly I dont have the source anymore.) allegedly the Mossod actually warned Condoleeza Rice of an impending attack on American soil by Islamic Extremists, her reply was something like...that assumption is unlikely.
OK. What reason would any (besides the self-haters, and anti-israeli ones) Jew have to wish bad on American CIVILIANS?
I mean, where did that come from?
Beats the hell out of me why anyone would cheer after attacks, but people did. I was just trying to point out that there could have been jews cheering.(A small minority) People are screwed up like that. On Sept 11 2002 I saw a couple of middle-schoolers with a sign that read: "Happy Aniversary." and this was in America.:cantbeli: Unfortunatly there are morons out there, that out of ingnorance, would support those who wish to do them harm.

[Javehn]

Holly smoking gun Jesus Cryst all mighty what the **** is going on in this thread ?

I didn't had the time to discredit one by one the articles , simply because i have no time and i frankly don't care mostly so much what people has to say about us . But at list , in one of the posts , i can discredit , the post of Liberty . It was written by survivors of the USS Liberty , that was shocked and disgruntled the way they were treated , and they bellieved with all of their heard , that there is cover up . They formed a USS Liberty society , and there is their site over the web , where they frankly bellieve that the attack on their ship was deliberate .

If you would be kind enough , there is anactuall tape of the Radio conversation between pilots , ground control , and the boats (it's on Hebrew , but i think there is alsoEnglish translation ) , and the enquary board publications on NSA official site (www.nsa.org if i am not mistaken - just type Liberty in Search pannel over there ) . It's indicating clearly that the pilost and ground control didn't knew that the boat is USS Liberty . I heard the tape on Hebrew , and it's seams that there is a confusion in a command after some time , and then they have suspicions that the boat is American , and they call the attack off , giving the Israeli naval boats command to start rescuing people on the Liberty . The ship attack started after some rounds landed on Israeli force and shore , and the origin was triangulatedat to the Liberty .


if you want a REAL bretheren (i mean in the race) you are talking about the bedouins that lived in Israel area... they are REAL semite and they look like the ancient hebrews were (the ancestors of the jewish) but becuase the jews mixed with so many races we dont have the REAL smite look like the bedouins have (thats why we have the hottest chicks inthe world.. so many genes )

Not complettely true , dog ;) My family was for instant only Jewish for last 2000 years , and that's pretty much shure . If you know munk Mendel experiments with flowers , he seeded different type of flowers and some flower field , and after some time the "stranger" flowers started to take form of the flowers in the field . And that is also goes for animals , if you know Darwins theory , animals that migratted to different places , addopted to the place , in order to be more blended with the enviroment . For example take cat without any dots on her perve , and put it to live with cats that do have a dots on perve . After several generation , the offsprings of that cat would be also doted .
Allrighty then :lol: ?

[AirZone]

yeah of course... but dont forget genes mainly made the changes... more than the area they used to live in.

[big80a2]

to: Rebel 7

you seems so sure that these articles tell the truth *at some times you say you want th truth do*
So if you are so sure prove it's right to the point that you belief it??

also when you get a counter question (not those really sily ones) you should not act stupid for you are not wanting us to do that on what you say. To some these claims from these articles are as crap as the golden wong claims.

My mate came back from Egypt last friday, and we had a little chat. I asket him during this chat about his trip to the sinai desert (because it quite beatyfull). And he told me that the Egyptians he spoke to all said that they had won it back from Israel, and not because of the peace talks.
What I wan't to show that this incident quite dameged my view on Arab/muslim covering of subjects, but maybe you can prove me (and others bothert with this) that we are wrong at this point?

about:



One question for you and please anwer this seriously:
Do you feel it is morally right to force a people out of their land and take up residence there? What are you views on what is moral and immoral in regards to this issue?

first why you want to know that? since this is not specivic and therefor I would say I'm against it. But if you ment somewhere in the back of your mind about the Israel - palastine conflict you should search this site and just look at the postings of us all because this is quite of the subject in this thread.... And IMO you are trying to lurk to that subject instaed of your real interest in knowing any facts.

Further more you find it morely unright to take one's land and and setlle there. And in this you are lurking/meening toward the IS-PA conflict .
Than what is your opinion about muslims doing this in Indonesia??
they are steeling land, by force from christian minorety's and raping killing and steeling from them. Do you think Molukken should be a state of it own whyle indonesia is ocupying it?

Doesn't this makes the arab world quite hyprocrit?


chears

[born_to_kill]

Rebel 7

get that muslim arab trash propoganda out of here you dirty afghan. go strap on some explosives or something

[Rebel 7]

Rebel 7

get that muslim arab trash propoganda out of here you dirty afghan. go strap on some explosives or something

Do me a favor, don't quit your day job...that is if you have one.

[born_to_kill]

do me a favor and kill yourself.

[Rebel 7]

This is getting painful.

In the real world outside of conspiracy theory nut jobs, there's this thing called "peer review". And what that means is that you should be able to find mainstream sources for all your arguments. Such as the NYT, the WSJ, Time, CNN, MSNBC - a multitude of reputable, if slightly flawed outlets. They check each other out. Verify sources...to keep each other honest.

Think of the money to be made by one of these outlets that proves the others are all lying! So they vigorously fact check. in fact, there are people employed at these places, not reporters, who are called "fact checkers". And three guesses as to what they do! They don't work for the reporters, they work for the editor. Editors use them to make sure the reporters aren't being misled or deliberately lying. So the system works.

Now, back to the important issue...my wang.

See, you're asking for evidence that my wang is made of gold. That's entirely reasonable, because most wangs are not made of gold. It would be surprising, to find someone with a golden wang. So you want proof. Evidence.

But apart from my statement about my glorious bejeweled golden wang, there IS no evidence. You have only my typed letters here as proof. Not good enough, is it?

Now, what if you could go to a major newspaper's website, or to CNN.com and find an article, maybe even a picture of my glistening member? Why then you'd have your proof! But alas, it's a lie. My dipstick is like any other- 13 inches long and made of paly-doh.

And see, you come on here making these ridiculous, golden-wang like claims yourself. And you have provided no evidence either.

And instead of you providing any evidence (no the ludicrous 7th-grade level fiction you've posted from some conspiracy theory website does not count as evidence to grown ups), you say "prove me wrong".

Which is exactly what I did! See! It's a form of humor! And now you've failed to even grasp that concept.

But you can't prove it. All you can do is point to fringe garbage websites. So, we'll be waiting while you find that New York Times article proving that Jews brought down the towers. Until then, we'll all know that you too are merely play-doh.

A few things have to be noted.

1) There is no such thing as evidence or proof for someone with a closed mentality. Nothing you can show or say to them will prove anything, for their mind is closed to anything that opposes their view.

2) What is evidence to you may be garbage to someone else. Pictures can be photoshoped, reports altered, prisoners forced to lie, and reports exaggerated (sometimes without the intent of the reporter).

Now with that said, yes I am aware the some of the authors of the article's may not be a Nobel Peace prize winner but that does not mean that what they claim are lies. You have to analyze their argument and from that duduct pieces of it that are flawed and expose that rather than say, "this author is a moron blah blah, and I don't need to argue."

Now to your gold dong claim. First of all, a picture to you may be evidence but to someone else who doesn't believe it, they may claim that a picture can be faked, and that you need further evidence. A doctors report maybe? Even a person who is still closed minded or skeptical will say that the doctor's report is still not good enough since that doctor is a "moron." So how do you prove something to someone who won't believe it no matter the picture nor the doctor's report you put out, well you can't....the best you can do is pose your arguments with references to things that have led you to your conclusion. The job of those opposing your argument is to pose their thesis and refer to things that leads them to oppose your view.

It has been known that Mossad uses deception to further its activities. Now, if an agency uses deception and people have openly admitted to that...why the hell would anything this agency does surprise you, especially when it involves DECEPTION?!...note the key word being deception.... Agents of Mossad have been caught with fake passports and the report about the 2 Mossad agents and Jews dancing at the site of the WTC is not something reported by a few conspiracy theory sites...it has also been reported by 20/20, the New York post, etc. http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/2020_whitevan_020621.html

Oh, and who the hell said I believed it was the Jews who brought down the WTC.........

[Rebel 7]

do me a favor and kill yourself.

Dude, shouldn't you be out somewhere cleaning toilets or something.....instead of pestering me...

[Rebel 7]

Okay since a lot of people seem confused as to my position here is it in simplified form. I am not a hardcore believer of these theories, I do think they sound reasonable but I will consider them invalid if someone can pose to me NOT impossible to get evidence (as I do not expect that) but arguments with references that suggest that the reports claims are false. For example, many pro-Talib supporters argue with me that Massoud committed atrocities against civilians. I argued against this by showing them video clips of Massoud ordering his troops not to mistreat civilians, not to harm civilians and to be in their best behaviour. Further evidence was given to them about Massoud. I do not expect video clips of Sharon telling Israelis not to dance if America is attacked. What I do expect is someone who can for example, say that the report of the 5 Jews dancing is incorrect because police reports comfirmed that these guys were Jews or Mossad agents, but rather Americans who were drunk and didn't know what was going on.

[Rebel 7]

First, oh the Mossad uses deception, oh gees who would have thought a spy agency uses deception :roll: …I guess only the Mossad does that :cantbeli: (in case you didnt realize that was sarcasm)

If deception is considered okay in your standards to justify illegal acts, no a wrong act is wrong act, but it’s a fact of life that ALL spy agencies just by the nature of what they are, are always operating illegally in other countries, I mean spying is illegal just by the nature of it.


Where IMO the difference is that the Mossad tries to act morally right and ONLY targets murderess and killers or those that want to destroy us, now is the Mossad, perfect? No (as no one is) does the Mossad makes mistakes? Yes (as everyone does), however IMO overall its has acted just in what is acceptable behaviors for what a spy agency does MOST of the time!!


As for laughing after 911……wow :cantbeli: no the only ones laughing at the U.S. in the middle east was your brethren dancing in the streets celebrating openly for all those deaths of those innocent man women and children that SOME of your brethren murdered.

The last things MOST Israeli would do is laugh at the U.S. for that tragedy unlike your brethren that did in fact do it!!



You haven't proven the article wrong! what article? I mean where did he prove that Israelis celebrated??

Can you prove that Israelis celebrated on that day??

I Mean I can prove that your brethren celebrated (just ask and I will show you some pics)

He (and you) made claims but no proof and as such the burden of proof is on YOU to provide the proof and not on me.


The fact is that there are numerous sources, names taken, police reports, that indicate that these five guys were Jews and that two of them were Mossad agents.
Stop right there….ok where is the evidence that they were Mossad agents.

Secondly where is the evidence that the Mossad knew about 911???? or that we brought down the towers???

Show it to me.

You haven’t shown me evidence at all for me even to bother to try to counter.

Again “He (and you) made claims but no proof and as such the burden of proof is on YOU to provide the proof and not on me.


SOME of your brethren murdered.


Brethren When I say brethren I am referring to Muslim brethren where IMO you all share a commem theme for the most part with regards to Israel.

As for your claims, you merely counter argue his with further claims without evidence for what you are arguing.
He brought no evidence to anything and as such I didn’t address it.

He has opinions and I have mine.

IMO my opinions at least put things in proper perceptive.

And again (now for the third time)

“He (and you) made claims but no proof and as such the burden of proof is on YOU to provide the proof and not on me”


One question for you and please anwer this seriously:
Do you feel it is morally right to force a people out of their land and take up residence there? What are you views on what is moral and immoral in regards to this issue? Can I ask you a question, do you feel its morally right to lie about this?

My view is that after the Arabs rejected to live in coexistence with Israel, then 7 Arab nations invaded to kill every Jew, and as such a lot of them fled at the behest of their Arab brethren, those that chose to stay were granted Israeli citizenship to where there are over 1 million Israeli Arabs, hardly an act of expulsion (I mean if we were doing that, we wouldn’t accapt anyone).

Now IMO still a lot of them still want to destroy the WHOLE Israel and they still actively fight for that and a lot of them support them that do.

(You know I have gone over this a few times already and I brought down numerous proofs and a lot more details to back up what I just said, I suggest you search my posts on this to see some of them)

Her are a few questions of me to you..

Do you feel its morally right for the Arabs in the past to fight in a effort to Kill EVERY Jew?

Also at the same token, do you feel its morally right for the Arabs to expel all the Jews from their nations?? And what did the Jews do in those Arab nations to warrant expulsion??

Anyways I have to go now, so I will try to address anything you say if you do respond later.

Shalom :D

Thanks for your arguments....
You have some very good points and I will address them, but I do not want to do a half-assed job of it since I have to go to work soon..so i apologize if my response takes a while...

[born_to_kill]

For you



THE SWORD
OF
MILITANT ISLAM


In the name of Allah, Most Merciful and Compassionate(???)
Go Out and Kill Jews, Christians, Buddhists and Hindus!


INFILTRATE, OVERWHELM, SUBJUGATE AND THEN DEVOUR
Today It's the Gun and the Qur'an (Koran)...
Tomorrow It Will Be Nukes and the Qur'an

ISLAMIC CIVILIZATION?
What an oxymoron! Since when IS barbarism called civilization?
Islam is an anti-civilization cult par excellence. It destroyed every civilization it touched
and brought misery, poverty, ignorance and war in every country that it invaded!

FACT:
90%-95% OF ALL THE CONFLICTS ON THIS PLANET TODAY
INVOLVE MUSLIMS FIGHTING NON-MUSLIMS OR EACH OTHER!
ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"

FACT:
1.4 BILLION Muslims in the World
280 Million Americans
5½ Million Israelis Surrounded by 350 Million Arab Muslims!!!

FACT:
OVER THE LAST FIFTY YEARS...
The world population of Christians increased by 47%
The world population of Buddhists increased by 63%
The world population of Muslims increased by 235%
Intermarriage, the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Nazi Holocaust, pogroms
and over 100 years of unrelenting Arab/Islamic terrorism have taken its toll.
The State of Israel is the Jewish Peoples' last reservoir and stronghold against
the end of a five thousand year history! Sadly, over the last fifty years,
the world Jewish population has DECREASED by 4%


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THE SPREAD OF ISLAM: Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. Islam, Palestine, Moslem, Muslim, israel, israeli, israeli occupation, Intifada, Palestinian Intifada, Jihad, Holy War, Koran, Holy Koran, Middle East, Middle East Peace, Peace Process, Middle East Conflict, Arab, Israeli, Israel, Jews, bin Laden, Osama bin Laden

While the world fixates on its usual obsession... setting up Jews for a second Holocaust, Islam is also hard at work laying waste to major portions of the world and preparing to impose Islamic rule over everybody and extinguishing their respective non-Islamic civilizations.
"Are you nuts," you might ask? " After all, is not Israel their primary enemy?" But to think that all Islamic issues spring forth from the Arab-Israeli conflict and that only Israel is a target shows a naivety that only invites disaster down the road! After Islam finishes off Israel, their "Little Satan," all the other larger Satans will meet up with the Sword of Islam! America has already seen the spillover of Islamic terrorism... the bombing of the U.S. Embassy in Beirut with the loss of hundreds of U.S. marines, the bombing of the U.S.S. Cole naval ship off Yemen and now the 9-11-01 World Trade Center bombing in New York. Yet America has received but a small taste of what Islam has in store for them!

The world "ISLAM" is Arabic for "surrender" or "submission" to the will of Allah [God]. In the language of the Holy Qur'an, Islam means the readiness of a person to take orders from God and to follow them through. It is not derived from the word, "peace," as Muslims would have us believe! Look it up in any dictionary and see for yourself! Seeing a Muslim praying nearly flat on his face five times a day even projects the appearance of a master-slave relationship... a submission of sorts. And while the Muslim is submissive to Allah, all "non-believers" (Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Catholics, etc.) MUST submit to the Muslim. That's how THEIR God wills it to be!

ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"

Islam is today being portrayed as a peaceful and tolerant religion. History proves otherwise! Though there were certainly periods of relative tranquility and tolerance, minorities and non-Muslims have always been prosecuted under Islam. In fact, Islamic ideology is based upon an intense hatred of the non-Muslim. For Muslims, there exist two kinds of non-Muslim enemies... kafir (non-believers in Islam) and ahl al-kitab (People of the Book). Kafir, such as Buddhists and Hindus, must either convert to Islam or face execution. People of the Book include Jews and Christians. These people need only submit to Muslim authority to avoid forced conversion or death. Although they may keep their original faith, their status becomes dhimmi (a "protected," yet inferior non-Muslim status). So instead of outright forced conversion or slaughter, the Christians and Jews would be allowed to remain somewhat unmolested as long as they acknowledged the superiority of the Muslim. However, as 100,000 dead Lebanese Christians and Israel's beleaguered Jewish population have discovered over the years, these guarantees have proved worthless!

ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"

The Holy Qur'an (the "Bible" of Islam) was inspired by Mohammed. No one knows his last name because Mohammed could neither read nor write. But one thing is for certain. Whoever wrote this sick collection of madness must have had his brain baking far too long in the hot desert sun of Arabia! The name "Mohammed means "Highly Praised" [or was he "Highly Crazed"].

In effect, Islam remains a religion of the Dark Ages. It is the most violent and intolerant faith that has ever been presented to mankind! A prima facie example of the insanity found within the Qur'an is the fascist, warlike notion of "Jihad," or "Holy War." Apologists for Islam say "Jihad" is one personal struggle to obtain a higher moral standard. But what it really represents is a violent military action (even terrorism) against the non-Muslim. If you don't quite believe this, visit Ground Zero where New York City's World Trade Center once stood!

For a clear explanation of what Jihad really is, click HERE

WHERE THERE'S SMOKE...
THERE'S MUSLIMS!

Until a nation has embraced Islam, it is legally considered a battlefield (Dar-ul-Harb). Once it has converted to Islam (or all its citizens have been slaughtered or driven out), it then becomes a Land of Peace (Dar-us-Salaam). For those who think that the threat of Islam is only a phenomenon of the Middle East, think again! Although the Jewish State of Israel has been fighting a brave and fierce battle against Islam for over 50 years, there are many other "hot spots" in the world.

For example, the supreme Taliban's hard line leader in Afghanistan, Mullah Mohammed Omar, issued an edict that Buddhist statues insulted Islam. Apparently no one clued in Mullah Mohammed Omar that Islam is an insult to humanity! In any event, within days of his edict, all Buddhist statues, including a giant 5th century Buddha at Bamiyan carved out of sandstone (see photos), were destroyed as the "civilized" world could only stand by and watch it happen.

ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"

Unfortunately, most people aren’t aware of Islam's murderous philosophy or they find it too monstrous to believe. However, a brief review of recent history and current events should make you doubters out there re-think your position. Two articles in the L.A. Times wrote about Muslims in Indonesia forcing Christians of all denominations to convert to Islam or get their throats slit. Thousands upon thousands of Christians were first converted and, according to rigid Islamic religious dictate, forced to undergo ****** mutilation of their foreskin or clitoris (with kitchen knives and razor blades) to make them conform to Muslim standards. Then they were are enslaved to their local Muslim chieftain. This was not some aberration of Islam but rather business as usual for all but the so-called "moderate" factions. This is Islam's sad legacy of murder, terror, lies and brainwashing to advance their cause of global conversion and subjugation... their so-called "personal struggle"... THEIR "Jihad!"

ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"

Other examples: Algeria is wracked by bitter fighting between Islamic Fundamentalists and the military. Death toll, 100,000 over a ten year period! Nigeria is in the midst of a war in which Muslims are murdering Christians and burning down their churches. Moslems against Christians. It doesn't take much to trigger an angry mob of Muslims. The Miss Universe Pageant was help there at the end of 2002. Muslim opposition to the pageant boiled over after a local journalist wrote that the prophet Mohammed would have approved of the contest and might even have wanted to marry one of the contestants. The ensuing riots in Kaduna left 220 dead and 400 wounded. In Kenya the Islamic Party has declared Holy War on the government. In Turkey the secular Muslim government is being challenged by the militant Refah Islamic Party. A civil war rages in the Sudan between Muslims in the north against the Christians in the south. Sudan's militant Muslim regime is slaughtering Christians who refuse to convert to Islam. In recent years, more than two million Sudanese have been killed out of a population of 35 million as its government used bombings and famine in its war on its own people. A war also raged between Muslim Eritrea and Christian Ethiopia. The result of fighting between Muslim Azerbaijans and Christian Armenians was 35,000 casualties. Armenia was shrunk because of territory "gained" by the "breeding-with-a- vengeance" Muslims population. Serbian Moslems looted Christian treasures in the process of destroying 107 churches and monasteries, both ancient and modern. In the former Soviet Union, breakaway Muslim republics (and their 55 million Muslims)... Chechnya (click HERE), Daghestan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan... have sparked insurrection against Orthodox Russian regimes and by the year 2050, Russia will be forced out of Central Asia by Islamic invaders from without AND within (Muslims have a birth rate 5 times that of non-Muslim Russians). The Great Russian Bear will be driven into permanent hibernation!

Will non-Islamic nations be forced to build a "Giant Wall" as China did to keep out the Islamicized Monguls? Will the electronically-enhanced, concrete wall the Israeli I.D.F. recently erected keep out the Arab-Palestinian terrorists?

ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"

Ten thousand Lebanese Christians were massacred in 1860s, while over 100,000 were killed in the Lebanese civil war of 1975-1990. Thousands of women were raped. That war was provoked by Yasser Arafat's PLO. Damour was once a thriving Christian Lebanese village until 500 (primarily young boys) were massacred and its population was expelled. This sort of violence and intolerance symbolizes treatment of Christians by Muslims in the Middle East. And, instead of an international arrest warrant Arafat received a Nobel Peace Prize!

Even non-Muslim Christians under Palestinian-controlled areas ["West Bank" and Gaza] are not faring so well. Bethlehem was 70 percent Christian in the 1970s. Today it is close to 70 percent Muslim. The growing Islamization of Palestinian society makes Christians very uncomfortable. The size of the Christian Arab community in the West Bank may have fallen as low as 10,000, a drop of 50 percent since the mid-1990s.


"Holy Land: Christians in Peril" ... $19.90
Order Online Or call Toll-Free 1-800-496-3266

Why have two million Christians fled the Middle East in the last twenty years? One of the most important aspects of the Israeli-"Palestinian" conflict that has been overlooked is the plight of Christians in the Holy Land. Christians in the "Palestinian" territories have dropped from 15% of the Arab population to just 2% today! This Christian exodus is a result of many factors, including the fighting between Israelis and "Palestinians," the related decline in the economy, but perhaps most significantly, the religious persecution these Christians encounter from their Arab Muslim neighbors. This film is a documentary containing interviews with Christians as well as exclusive footage showing how dangerous their situation is under Islamic rule.

Continuing on... Uighur Muslim separatist terrorists are active in Western China's Xinjiang Province. The Philippines is nearly 95% Catholic/Christian yet the Muslim rebel group called Abu Sayyaf (“Bearer of the Sword") have aligned with bin Laden's al Qaeda and want their own independent Islamic Nation. Kidnapping for ransom is so common here that the Philippines has often been described as the kidnapping capital of the world! War rages between Indonesian Muslims and the Christians in East Timor. Malaysia is a time-bomb ready to explode between Muslims and the minority Chinese and Indian populations.

Indonesia is composed of seventeen thousand islands that stretch over five thousand miles along the equator. Most are Muslims but there are substantial Christian, Hindu and Buddhist minorities. Christian churches were almost wiped out in a single weekend in Indonesia. One of Indonesia's islands is Bali. Most of Bali’s 3 million inhabitants are Hindu and hundreds of Hindu temples are part of its scenic beauty. Unlike other parts of Indonesia, Bali has maintained a relaxed, tolerant lifestyle, immune from the strife wracking the country in recent years. Hundreds of thousands of annual vacationers flock to Bali's luxury resorts and black beaches. They may no longer! On October 12, 2002 deadly explosions ripped through two popular nightclubs in the Kuta Beach area on Bali island, Indonesia, a destination popular with international tourists. The death toll from the bombings -- most recently confirmed at 187 -- is expected to rise as authorities believe there are still more than 200 people unaccounted for. Many of them are Australian holidaymakers. The scent of C4 explosives (similar to that used to blow up Israelis!) was everywhere which leads one to conclude that Muslim/Islamic terrorists had a hand in this... specifically, the Jemaah Islamiah group.

Islamic terror comes to India's streets and the new terrorists are not preoccupied with the "liberation" of Kashmir from India, their objective is a wider jihad aimed at changing India into an Islamic State. Yes, the Hindus in India have met the Sword of Islam and even burnt alive for refusing to accept Islam. Estimates go as high as a Muslim kill rate of 80,000,000 in Greater India! With 200 million Muslims being 20% of India's population, civil war can break out any time. It's even worse in Israel where Israeli Arabs number 23% of the Jewish State's population! See The Cancer Within.

Islamists in the 83 % Muslim country of Bangladesh aspire to establish a true "Islamic Republic" much like Afghanistan under the Taliban. Meanwhile, [according to The Nation magazine] members of minority religions have suffered from ghastly violence, including collective terror. Some Buddhists and Christians were blinded, had fingers cut off or had hands amputated, while others had iron rods nailed through their legs or abdomen. Women and children have been gang-raped, often in front of their fathers or husbands. Pakistani Muslim soldiers raped a quarter of a million Bangali women in 1971 after they massacred 3 million unarmed civilians. This atrocity is not considered a sin in Islam, because the religious leader of the soldiers decreed that Bangladeshis were infidels. In addition, hundreds of temples were desecrated and statues destroyed; thousands of homes and businesses looted or burned. As for Hindus, the human rights organization Freedom House reports they have been subject to "rape, torture and killing and the destruction of their cultural and religious identity at the hands of Muslims." In one indicative step, Islamists sometimes force Hindu women to dress in the Islamist fashion.

Colonel Khaddafy and his Libyan army have carried out numerous military excursions into neighboring Chad. Even Egypt's Christian Coptic community (less than 10% of the population) walks a fine line between tolerance and oppression.

ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"


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ISLAM MAY BECOME THE
GREATEST MURDERING FORCE
IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND
Islam has replaced the Soviet Union as the Evil Empire
and its "best days" may lie ahead as the forces of Islam gather steam!!!

First the Saturday People... (click link)

The Muslims have a saying: "First [destroy] the Saturday People (Jews)... then the Sunday People (Christians)." And when the Muslims tire of killing or converting non-Muslims, they go after other Muslims! The ten-year Iran-Iraq War resulting in the deaths of over one million deserving Muslims was said to have been fought over a land dispute. This is not entirely true for the underlying hatred between two conflicting views of Islam was the major spark that ignited this conflict.

Most of the so-called "moderate" Arab nations are scared to death of radical Islamic movements for they represent a most real physical threat to their continued absolute rule. For that reason alone, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Kuwait and all the other fictitious kingdoms throughout the Middle East gladly pay cash AND lip service to the most vicious of the Arab, Palestinian and Islamic Fundamentalist terrorists. The United States government, the State Department and other apologists may call them "friends" and "allies" but, in reality, they have nothing whatsoever in common with America. They are theocratic, backward and share NONE of the democratic traditions so valued in the West. "Friends" and "allies?" Hardly!

ATTAINING "CRITICAL MASS"
Among every four humans in the world, one of them is Muslim.
Islam is now the second largest religious group in France, Great Britain and USA!

There is no point in beating around the bush. The fact is that Islam is a militant, intolerant, incendiary religion whose adherents, whenever they establish "critical mass" of about 10 percent of a given population, begin to foment violence, revolt and Jihad --- in essence, a declaration of war on Western Civilization. A World War Three!

Battleground Europe...
by 2020 Muslims will account for 10% of the overall population of Europe

Don't think that Islamic activity is confined only to the Third World. Today, Muslims invade civilized countries under the benign guise of immigration. Their influence in Europe is growing steadily and will continue to do so unopposed until the Europeans finally wake up, although it's hard to tell if they can do it in time to save themselves. In fact, immigration accounted for 89 percent of Europe’s population growth during the 1990s! When Christian society was mighty, Muslim society was timid. Western Christian countries have lost their fervor. Many have acquired Muslim fifth columns, which they tolerate regardless of insults to the host countries. But now the Europeans are starting to panic. Their women cannot possibly reproduce as quickly as can fertile Muslim women! In thirty years the Muslim population of Great Britain rose from 82,000 to two million.... a 25-fold increase... nearly one-half million Muslims in London alone! This Islamic invasion is obviated by the sight of over one thousand mosques littering the British landscape. Even London itself has become a main launching pad for much of the pro-Islamic, pro-Arab and pro-Palestinian Internet propaganda! Over the past 20 years, say experts, Britain has become a headquarters for extremist Muslim clerics and a fertile recruitment ground for new followers.

In 30 years the Muslim population of Great Britain rose from 82,000 to two million.


Finsbury Park Mosque in North London, a Base for Islamic Extremism

Muslims in Britain have made it clear that they have no intention of assimilating. Dr. Zaki Badwari, former Director of the Islamic Cultural Centre of London wrote, "A proselytizing religion [like Islam] cannot stand still. Islam endeavors to expand in Britain. It aims at bringing its message to all corners of the earth. It hopes that one day the whole of humanity will be one Muslim community, the Umma." Britain operates as a strategic base for some of the most radical Islamic groups which preach hatred, incite to violence and recruit volunteers for terrorist activities. Britain now has one of the highest concentrations of closed-circuit TV cameras in Europe... nearly 1.5 million in operation! In late May 2001 the Brits were treated to their very own Muslim-Pakistani rioting! There is something deservedly humorous that this should happen to the pro-Muslim Brits who waste no time dumping on Israel! God Save the Queen! For more on Radical Islam In the U.K. click HERE. To see a partial list of Islamic Groups infesting England click HERE. Click HERE for more on how Muslims are transforming British society!

Two of Europe's most legally tolerant regions...namely, the Dutch-language areas around Europe's most important west coast harbors, Antwerp [Belgium] and Rotterdam [Netherlands]... as the main breeding ground for Muslim-fundamentalist terrorist groups. Osama bin Laden 's organization even runs shipping companies as fronts from Amsterdam.

Something rotten in Denmark? How about the 200,000 Muslim immigrants trying to dictate their anti-Israel, anti-America and anti-Western values upon 5 million Danes? Even though they represent only 4% of the population, the Muslims consume upwards of 40 percent of welfare spending. They also account for 65-75% of the country's convicted rapists... with almost all victims non-Muslim Danes! Demographers have predicted that in just 40 years, one out of every three Danes will be Muslim. At this point, we're sure the Danes wish it were their Jewish population which was growing faster than rabbits on a hot tin roof. Jews are almost always model citizens! But the Danish Jews only number 6,000.

Dateline Sweden: Cold temperatures have not discouraged Muslim immigration. One out of every 22 Swede are now Muslims and Islam is the nation's second largest religion. Of the nearly 9 million people in Sweden, 400,000 are Muslim, leading to a drastic increase in anti-Semitic acts against Sweden's 18,000 Jews. Say farewell to the stereotypical blue-eyed, blonde haired Swede.

In Holland [aka The Netherlands], because of its total lack of anti-terrorism laws and its very high level of religious, cultural and judicial tolerance, Muslim-fundamentalist terrorist groups are allowed to thrive. The Muslims now number about 6% of the population. In 20 years' time the majority of Holland's under 18 year old children will be Muslim. In fact, 50 per cent of the newborns during the next twenty years will be Muslim! A finger in the dike won't work this time, folks!

Two million Muslims have soaked into Germany; one million into Italy; 200,000 in Spain; 500,000 in Belgium...1/10th its entire population and 1/4 of Brussels, its capitol city. Half of all babies born in Belgium are now Muslims! In total, 11,000,000 Muslims have saturated Western Europe! It now becomes clear just who is organizing and marching in Europe's anti-Israel and anti-American demonstrations!

In Italy, 95% of all rapists are Muslims. Eighty-five percent of all murderers are Muslims. Ah, such a wonderful religion of peace! What does the Pope and the rest of the Vatican Church have to say about this? Nothing! And what will the ordinary Italian say when, in ten years, Muslims will be the majority in Italy!!!

France is faring no better. In 1945, there were 100,000 Muslims in France. A fifty fold increase since then now has them numbering 6 million out of a total population of 60 million! In twenty years, one out of every five Frenchmen will be a Muslim! Another telling statistic is that although the Muslims are 10% of France's population, 60% of the country's prison population are Muslims! All the urban suburbs are steered by Moslem black African or Arabic gangs. One-fifth of all births in France are Muslims! Mohammed is one of the most common names next to Pierre! And Paris has the largest Arab community outside of the Middle East! This is a result of a lenient immigration policy, high Muslim birthrate and conversions. A very high proportion of French Muslims are in the underclass, that segment of the population that relies not so much on education and work as on welfare and predatory activities. In fact, over one thousand Muslim neighborhoods are under monitoring throughout France. Seven hundred of those Muslim neighborhoods are listed as "violent" and nearly 400 hundred are listed as "very violent." Violence ranges from rape (95% of rapists are Muslim), murder (85% of murderers are Muslim), theft and looting of cars (58% committed by Muslims) and street fighting to assault on teachers and civil servants. Periodic outbursts of large-scale unrest or rioting sometimes occur. And, most distressing, are the high numbers of assaults or rebellions against the police. As does England, one thousand mosques are said to operate in France. Oh, mon dieu, what is a Frenchman to do! Click HERE for an audio of what Frenchmen (and all other cowardly, appeasing Europeans) should do because "Buddies, you're next!" Also, check out "The Death of France."

There are 14 to 17 million Muslims now live within the European Union. If only a minuscule fraction of the growing Muslim fundamentalist population of Europe were to join bin Laden's holy warriors (or some of the many Arab/Muslim/Islamic terrorist groups), internal-security officers would confront nightmare scenarios!

For more on "Islam's Immigrant Invasion of Europe" and sources of the above information, click HERE, HERE, HERE and HERE


ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"


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AMERICA'S ISLAMIZATION
CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations) spokesman Ibrahim Hooper indicated in a 1993 interview with the Minneapolis Star Tribune that he wants to see the United States become a Muslim country.

Before Americans start pitying the poor Brits (who truly deserve a good bashing from Islam), they should checked their own neighborhoods! Besides Louis Farrakan's Nation of Islam, the Black Panther and New Black Panther Parties with all their black wanna-be Muslims, there are also REAL Muslims and their communities are springing up everywhere. In 1970 there were an estimated one-hundred thousand Muslims in the United States. Today, a mere 34 years later, the number is approximately 7-10 million! More than a quarter of a million people of Arab descent live in southeastern Michigan, making the area the second-largest Arab community outside the Middle East (after Paris, France). One frightening example of their prolific growth in American is Dearborn, Michigan. Of a total population of 90,000 Dearborn residents, 25,000 are now Arabs! And of all the Dearborn children under the age of 18, a full 58% are Arab children! Other developing centers of Arab/Muslim growth are Florida, Texas, New Jersey and California. God Bless America!

Every year huge numbers of Arabs/Muslims from Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Kuwaitis, Syria, Egypt, Albania and dozens of other ethnic Muslim states who hate America swarm into the United States and add to the already increasing numbers of Arab/Muslim. And every year hundreds of mosques, which preach the extermination of all non-Muslims and the Islamization of America, are being added to the thousands already pointing their minarets skyward. The vast majority (80%) of American mosques are funded with Saudi Arabian money and most subscribe to 18th century Wahhabism that calls for the spread of Islam through violence. Many mosques, "Islamic Learning Centers" and Arab/Muslim Student Unions are distributing large numbers of pamphlets and leaflets attacking Judaism, Christianity and other non-Muslim religions and urging young Americans (esp. angry black Americans) to convert to Islam! Not surprisingly, a large number of African-Americans convert to Islam while in the prison systems! The National Islamic Prison Foundation, which coordinates a campaign to convert inmates to Islam claim an average of 135,000 such conversions per year. And if thousands of self-hating, Leftwing Jews hadn't already converted to Buddhism, they too might be targeted!

The nerve of these evil people to exploit the freedoms given to them here in America and other democracies when their goal is to extinguish ALL freedom!

Many Arabs in America are a disloyal fifth column. They work relentlessly to undermine the U.S. struggle to survive in the face of the growing Muslim terrorist threat. The huge Muslim birthrate, Muslim immigration, the massive expansion of Muslim religious and educational institutions that convert Christians to Islam and the purchase of major U.S. companies by Muslim oil sheiks are all also part of their strategy. America's great friend (???), Saudi Arabia, from whose land came fifteen of the nineteen September 11th Arab hijackers (who flattened the World Trade Center, a portion of the Pentagon and made a very big hole in a Pennsylvania field), has for some time been spear-heading the spread of Islamic doctrine. The Saudis have wholly or partly financed some 210 Islamic Centers (check out this one in Boca Raton, Florida!!!), more than 1,500 mosques and 202 colleges and almost 2,000 schools for educating Muslim children in non-Islamic countries in Europe, Asia, South America, Canada, Australia and America. Check out the mosque near you and look for Islamic propagandists exalting the virtues of Islam to appear soon in YOUR kid's school. Speaking of schools, watch them try to infuse Islam and Islamic rights INTO school systems! Did you know that some Islamic schools in America are teaching hatred toward American Jews and Christians? And what about regular North American colleges and universities? Check out one of the so-called "social activities" of the M.S.A. (Muslim Student Association)! And don't forget to pick up the U.S. Postal Service's new 34 cent Eid-il-Mubarak stamp!

Note: For a better appreciation of the colonization of Arab/Islamic terror squads arrive, colonize and flourish in America and how they interconnect, recruit, raise money and use the American freedoms and legal system as a cover. [see booklist at bottom of page]


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CANADA DOESN'T HAVE A PRAYER!

The U.S.- Canadian border is 4,000 miles long. Nearly all of this runs along territory which can never be fortified! Those seeking to sneak into the United States can do so by simply crossing waist high streams or forested areas. Geographically, Canada is the largest nation on earth [nearly 6.2 million square miles] yet her population is but a puny 28 million. The earliest record of a Muslim presence in Canada dates back to 1871 when the Canadian census recorded just 13 Muslim residents! One hundred and ten years later in 1981 there were 98,165 Muslims. And now, just 20 years after that last census, there are 400,000 Muslims in Canada! There are more than 80 mosques in Canada, four of which are located in Ottawa alone. In addition to mosques there are numerous locations in most major cities where space (known as musallah) is set aside for prayer purposes. In fact, Muslims now outnumber the Canadian-Jewish population and Islam is now the fastest-growing faith in Canada. One out of every fifty Canadians is a Muslim!

News Flash: Not all of these Muslims drive taxis! Experts estimate that there are at least 50 international terrorist organizations operating in Canada, including al-Qaida. Many of them are campus organizers pushing forward their anti-Israel and anti-West agendas. Thus, on September 9, 2002 on Montreal's Concordia University, violent clashes erupted between riot police and Arab/Muslim demonstrators preventing a speech by former Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu. So much for free speech and democratic values. Is this the sort of "secular, democratic state" that Arafat and his "Palestinian" nation-builders envision?

For a while there was talk about the province of Quebec (containing both Montreal and Quebec City) separating from Canada and forming its own government. Perhaps in time the Muslims will want a chunk of Canada for their own Islamic Republic!


For more on "Islam's Immigrant Invasion of North America" click HERE


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IT KEEPS GETTING WORSE...

Every single Muslim country on this planet is brutal dictatorships. Make no mistake about it. Islam is on the move and is prepared to extinguish any and all civilizations that get in its way. Muslims are fundamentally non-assimilatible. Many foot soldiers of Islam have been sent to the four corners of the globe to "blend in" as "sleepers" and form future terror cells to await the call for action. Islam stands out among "religions" for its murderous tendency wherever it builds up to "critical mass," typically 20% or more of a given population? (France, Belgium and the Balkins ALREADY have at least a 10% Muslim population!) How many countries have been, or will be, partitioned or redrawn to accommodate Islamic constituencies? With the world's Muslim population now DOUBLING every 35 years, the trends are clear and these processes are irreversible. Unless the civilized world resists and fights back, Muslims will vanquish the planet within a few decades. Only THEN will the "civilized world" know what devilish barbarism and uncompromising rigidity Israel has for so long been up against!!!

ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. One out of every five people in the world is now a Muslim! One out of every three babies born in the world today are Muslim. Apparently the Muslims can still breed with a vengeance much faster than they can purge each other off the planet. Interestingly, there are no "hate groups" in 'Islamic countries. They don't need hate groups as long as hate is institutionalized right from the local mosques! For sure the most dangerous time on the streets for non-Muslims is right after the mosque prayers end on Friday evening!

ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"

There seems to be no end to the limitless supply of willing Jihadist martyrs volunteering into the service of Allah. In the Israeli/Arab-Palestinian conflict alone, Muslim children rush forward to confront Israeli soldiers (guarding Jewish settlements) with rocks, Molotov Cocktails, iron bars... all in the name of Islam. Summer camps for Palestinian children teach not how to sing and play but rather how to fire automatic weapons and properly strap dynamite onto their chests! They are taught a hatred of Jews and a love of death... right from the cradle! Click HERE for "Seeds of Hatred" Audio/Video

The vast majority of Muslims, even in the West, are loyal and wedded to basic Koranic values. At best, they are passive supporters of fundamentalist and militant Islam and hope for the eventual destruction of Israel; at worst, they are vocal (or active) supporters of the Arab suicidal/homicidal bombers and plot for the eventual transformation of Western, democracies into Islamic nations. This is not to say there aren't Muslims who are "good" people; obviously there are. But Muslim culture, values and outlook is warlike, violent, undemocratic and with a set of rules and values diametrically opposed to Judeo-Christian teachings. Will the Muslim world ever change or try to compromise? THIS is indeed unlikely for they have declared that "any compromise is impossible for us since the Islamic Laws were laid down by Allah himself, not by men!" So the next time you feel like lecturing Israel on how to get along with the Muslim world, think instead how YOU will get along with that same Muslim world when they come looking for you!






Induction Into the Service of Islam...
or Maternal Instincts Turned Inside-Out!

"The only way Muslims can have assurance of salvation and eternal life is by becoming a martyr for the cause of Islam... dying and killing for the cause of Islam is not only an honor, but also a way of pleasing Allah." .... From Reza F. Safa, author of Inside Islam.

For Audio File on Islam's Children Martyrs click HERE



WARNING: WORLD WAR THREE IS UNDERWAY and it's much more sinister than you could have imagined. When did it start? Fourteen centuries ago. Who started it? An insane pedophile named Mohammed who, along with his gang of terrorists, formed the savagely oppressive, dehumanizing religion of Islam.

Through centuries of fanatical conquests (Jihads) and terrorism (when Jihads failed), Islam has metastasized into a modern day world cancer. As we speak, the civilized world is beginning to collapse under it and has no idea how to react. How does one stop a grotesque cult which will settle for nothing less than TOTAL world domination? So while the U.S. looks under every rock for Osama bin Laden, the bloody borders of Islam are closing in on all sides... for in fact EVERY American Muslim has the potential to become a bin Laden or an abettor of a bin Laden!

Even a Jew-basher/Israeli-basher like Pat Buchanan has it correct when he wrote... "In population, Islam is exploding, the West dying. Islamic warriors are willing to suffer defeat and death, the West recoils at casualties. They are full of grievance; we, full of guilt. Where Islam prevails, it asserts a right to impose its dogma, while the West preaches equality. Islam is assertive, the West apologetic – about its crusaders, conquerors and empires. Don't count Islam out. It is the fastest growing faith in Europe and has surpassed Catholicism worldwide. And as Christianity expires in the West and the churches empty out, the mosques are going up." WorldnetDaily-12/7/01

An impending disaster lies ahead. Unfortunately the U.S. military cannot help for it was always preparing for the wrong war. Soviet or Chinese communism was never driven by such fanaticism. Besides, the Russians stayed in Russian and the Chinese in China. By contrast, the Soldiers of Islam are spreading into all societies... first as simple shop owners and cab drivers, then students, then student activists, then violent agitators and finally assassins and bombers. Look for a mosque to appear soon in YOUR neighborhood.



SUGGESTION
Christians, Jews and Hindus should really think about joining forces instead of getting on their knees like young girls begging not to be gang raped!




* * *






FROM THE KORAN ITSELF...
"HEIL HITLER" Now Upgraded to "ALLAH AKBAR?"

You may already know about this one: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. [al-Ma'idah 5:51.11]

But did you know that there are 123 verses in the Quran concerning fighting and killing for the cause of Allah? Here are but a few passages:

-Muslims are encouraged to be wholly occupied (Sura 2:273) with fighting for Allah's cause.

- Allah will give "a far richer recompense to those who fight for him" (Sura 4:96).

- Regarding infidels (unbelievers), they are the Muslim's "inveterate enemies" (Sura 4:101). Muslims are to "arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere" (Sura 9:5) for them. They are to "seize them and put them to death wherever you find them, kill them wherever you find them, seek out the enemies of Islam relentlessly" (Sura 4:90). "Fight them until Islam reigns supreme" (Sura 2:193). "Cut off their heads, and cut off the tips of their fingers" (Sura 8:12).

- If a Muslim does not go to war, Allah will kill him (Sura 9:39). He is to be told, "the heat of war is fierce, but more fierce is the heat of Hell-fire" (Sura 9:81).

- A Muslim must "fight for the cause of Allah with the devotion due to him" (Sura 22:78)

- Muslims must make war on the infidels (unbelievers) who live around them (Sura 9:123).

- Muslims are to be "ruthless to unbelievers" (Sura 48:29).

- A Muslim should "enjoy the good things" he has gained by fighting (Sura 8:69).

- A Muslim can kill any person he wishes if it be a "just cause" (Sura 6:152).

- Allah loves those who "fight for his cause" (Sura 61:3).
Anyone who fights against Allah or renounces Islam in favor of another religion shall be "put to death or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off alternative sides" (Sura 5:34).

- Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him. Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57)

- Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5)

- Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. (Koran 69:30-37)

- I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (Koran 8:12)

- They should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides. (Koran 5:33)

- Know that paradise is under the shades of swords. Sahih al-Bukhari Vol 4 p55

And Speaking of Paradise...

"There will be "gushing fountains" and everyone "shall recline on jeweled couches face to face, and there shall wait on them immortal youths with bowls and ewers and a cup of purest wine." Suras (or chapters) 55 and 56 of the Quran.

"Therein are bashful virgins whom neither man nor jinnee will have touched before ... virgins as fair as corals and rubies," sura 55. A few lines later, you might remind them of "virgins chaste and fair ... they shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets."

"The smallest reward for the people of Paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana'a.'"

It will be the day, God willing, you spend with the women of paradise...Know that the gardens of paradise are waiting for you in all their beauty, and the women of paradise are waiting, calling out, "Come hither, friend of God."

For much more on "PARADISE... A Better World?" click HERE

.




.
UPDATE 9-11
LOOK FOR MORE LOW-FLYING 757s


-- September 11, 2001 NYC World Trade Center Towers --
Islamic Fundamentalist fanatics conduct a Wall Street "transaction!"
We are facing an enemy that will not rest until they are either successful in destroying our blessed nation or destroyed themselves!
(Don't say we didn't warn you!)

Some Americans will continue to portray the September 11, 2001 attacks as the work of a lunatic fringe rather than of a global religious movement. The perpetrators of the attacks in New York and Washington are being portrayed as Muslim "extremists" when in fact, they were "faithful" Muslims. Most of the Muslims in America are also "faithful" to Islam. Don't say we haven't warned you about this either!

Another thing... If you're a Western European and are feeling sorry for Americans, don't bother. Your countries are ALREADY Muslim-infested beyond salvage! Southern France has more mosques than churches. In fact, 10% of Frances "Frenchmen are Arabs! (And France thinks Israel is a sh**y country!!) And to all you other Europeans who sell out Israel for Arab oil, you too will soon have YOUR September 11th. Guaranteed!

Warning to Americans: As long as you continue to be force-fed a daily sanitized version of Islam by corrupt media outlets like CNN or a State Department campaign declaring that America is at war against terrorists but not Islam, your Middle East policy will continue to be marked by failure and your interests both home and abroad will remain in danger.







IS THE WEST AT WAR WITH ISLAM?
Definitely Not

IS ISLAM AT WAR WITH US?
OH, YEAH!


The New Anti-Semitism Driven by Islam
.

L I N K S

All About Islam
Hindu View of Islam
Anti-Muslim Society (A.M.S.)
Frequently Asked Questions About Islam




BOOKS


Militant Islam Reaches America $18.17
by Daniel Pipes

Maybe There Is Some Hope!

The Trouble With Islam $22.95
by Irshad Manji

.In a Nutshell Series presents...
"Anti-Semitism and Islamic Expansionism"

[Rebel 7]

to: Rebel 7

you seems so sure that these articles tell the truth *at some times you say you want th truth do*
So if you are so sure prove it's right to the point that you belief it??

also when you get a counter question (not those really sily ones) you should not act stupid for you are not wanting us to do that on what you say. To some these claims from these articles are as crap as the golden wong claims.

My mate came back from Egypt last friday, and we had a little chat. I asket him during this chat about his trip to the sinai desert (because it quite beatyfull). And he told me that the Egyptians he spoke to all said that they had won it back from Israel, and not because of the peace talks.
What I wan't to show that this incident quite dameged my view on Arab/muslim covering of subjects, but maybe you can prove me (and others bothert with this) that we are wrong at this point?

about:



One question for you and please anwer this seriously:
Do you feel it is morally right to force a people out of their land and take up residence there? What are you views on what is moral and immoral in regards to this issue?

first why you want to know that? since this is not specivic and therefor I would say I'm against it. But if you ment somewhere in the back of your mind about the Israel - palastine conflict you should search this site and just look at the postings of us all because this is quite of the subject in this thread.... And IMO you are trying to lurk to that subject instaed of your real interest in knowing any facts.

Further more you find it morely unright to take one's land and and setlle there. And in this you are lurking/meening toward the IS-PA conflict .
Than what is your opinion about muslims doing this in Indonesia??
they are steeling land, by force from christian minorety's and raping killing and steeling from them. Do you think Molukken should be a state of it own whyle indonesia is ocupying it?

Doesn't this makes the arab world quite hyprocrit?


chears

Yes, the arab world is hypocritical, even a 4th grader knows that. I think most of you assume because I am not a fan of Mossad that I am advocating the Arabs. I am not. I have been against their hypocrisy for a very long time. Look at Iraq today, the Iraqis wanted Saddam ousted and when he was they now want the ones who ousted him out (the US). Look at Sadr, the man who didn't have the balls to talk during Saddam's reign now talks against the US (the same people who gave him the right and freedom to talk what he wants). Don't make half-assed assumptions about me, you don't know me. You don't know my intentions and they aren't what you so childishly claim.

[born_to_kill]

I remember you used to post that anti - russia and anti Israel bull****. so indeed you are a hypocrite like how you said the arab world iare hypocrites in the above post

[Rebel 7]

For you



THE SWORD
OF
MILITANT ISLAM


In the name of Allah, Most Merciful and Compassionate(???)
Go Out and Kill Jews, Christians, Buddhists and Hindus!


INFILTRATE, OVERWHELM, SUBJUGATE AND THEN DEVOUR
Today It's the Gun and the Qur'an (Koran)...
Tomorrow It Will Be Nukes and the Qur'an

ISLAMIC CIVILIZATION?
What an oxymoron! Since when IS barbarism called civilization?
Islam is an anti-civilization cult par excellence. It destroyed every civilization it touched
and brought misery, poverty, ignorance and war in every country that it invaded!

FACT:
90%-95% OF ALL THE CONFLICTS ON THIS PLANET TODAY
INVOLVE MUSLIMS FIGHTING NON-MUSLIMS OR EACH OTHER!
ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"

FACT:
1.4 BILLION Muslims in the World
280 Million Americans
5½ Million Israelis Surrounded by 350 Million Arab Muslims!!!

FACT:
OVER THE LAST FIFTY YEARS...
The world population of Christians increased by 47%
The world population of Buddhists increased by 63%
The world population of Muslims increased by 235%
Intermarriage, the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Nazi Holocaust, pogroms
and over 100 years of unrelenting Arab/Islamic terrorism have taken its toll.
The State of Israel is the Jewish Peoples' last reservoir and stronghold against
the end of a five thousand year history! Sadly, over the last fifty years,
the world Jewish population has DECREASED by 4%


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE SPREAD OF ISLAM: Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. Islam, Palestine, Moslem, Muslim, israel, israeli, israeli occupation, Intifada, Palestinian Intifada, Jihad, Holy War, Koran, Holy Koran, Middle East, Middle East Peace, Peace Process, Middle East Conflict, Arab, Israeli, Israel, Jews, bin Laden, Osama bin Laden

While the world fixates on its usual obsession... setting up Jews for a second Holocaust, Islam is also hard at work laying waste to major portions of the world and preparing to impose Islamic rule over everybody and extinguishing their respective non-Islamic civilizations.
"Are you nuts," you might ask? " After all, is not Israel their primary enemy?" But to think that all Islamic issues spring forth from the Arab-Israeli conflict and that only Israel is a target shows a naivety that only invites disaster down the road! After Islam finishes off Israel, their "Little Satan," all the other larger Satans will meet up with the Sword of Islam! America has already seen the spillover of Islamic terrorism... the bombing of the U.S. Embassy in Beirut with the loss of hundreds of U.S. marines, the bombing of the U.S.S. Cole naval ship off Yemen and now the 9-11-01 World Trade Center bombing in New York. Yet America has received but a small taste of what Islam has in store for them!

The world "ISLAM" is Arabic for "surrender" or "submission" to the will of Allah [God]. In the language of the Holy Qur'an, Islam means the readiness of a person to take orders from God and to follow them through. It is not derived from the word, "peace," as Muslims would have us believe! Look it up in any dictionary and see for yourself! Seeing a Muslim praying nearly flat on his face five times a day even projects the appearance of a master-slave relationship... a submission of sorts. And while the Muslim is submissive to Allah, all "non-believers" (Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Catholics, etc.) MUST submit to the Muslim. That's how THEIR God wills it to be!

ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"

Islam is today being portrayed as a peaceful and tolerant religion. History proves otherwise! Though there were certainly periods of relative tranquility and tolerance, minorities and non-Muslims have always been prosecuted under Islam. In fact, Islamic ideology is based upon an intense hatred of the non-Muslim. For Muslims, there exist two kinds of non-Muslim enemies... kafir (non-believers in Islam) and ahl al-kitab (People of the Book). Kafir, such as Buddhists and Hindus, must either convert to Islam or face execution. People of the Book include Jews and Christians. These people need only submit to Muslim authority to avoid forced conversion or death. Although they may keep their original faith, their status becomes dhimmi (a "protected," yet inferior non-Muslim status). So instead of outright forced conversion or slaughter, the Christians and Jews would be allowed to remain somewhat unmolested as long as they acknowledged the superiority of the Muslim. However, as 100,000 dead Lebanese Christians and Israel's beleaguered Jewish population have discovered over the years, these guarantees have proved worthless!

ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"

The Holy Qur'an (the "Bible" of Islam) was inspired by Mohammed. No one knows his last name because Mohammed could neither read nor write. But one thing is for certain. Whoever wrote this sick collection of madness must have had his brain baking far too long in the hot desert sun of Arabia! The name "Mohammed means "Highly Praised" [or was he "Highly Crazed"].

In effect, Islam remains a religion of the Dark Ages. It is the most violent and intolerant faith that has ever been presented to mankind! A prima facie example of the insanity found within the Qur'an is the fascist, warlike notion of "Jihad," or "Holy War." Apologists for Islam say "Jihad" is one personal struggle to obtain a higher moral standard. But what it really represents is a violent military action (even terrorism) against the non-Muslim. If you don't quite believe this, visit Ground Zero where New York City's World Trade Center once stood!

For a clear explanation of what Jihad really is, click HERE

WHERE THERE'S SMOKE...
THERE'S MUSLIMS!

Until a nation has embraced Islam, it is legally considered a battlefield (Dar-ul-Harb). Once it has converted to Islam (or all its citizens have been slaughtered or driven out), it then becomes a Land of Peace (Dar-us-Salaam). For those who think that the threat of Islam is only a phenomenon of the Middle East, think again! Although the Jewish State of Israel has been fighting a brave and fierce battle against Islam for over 50 years, there are many other "hot spots" in the world.

For example, the supreme Taliban's hard line leader in Afghanistan, Mullah Mohammed Omar, issued an edict that Buddhist statues insulted Islam. Apparently no one clued in Mullah Mohammed Omar that Islam is an insult to humanity! In any event, within days of his edict, all Buddhist statues, including a giant 5th century Buddha at Bamiyan carved out of sandstone (see photos), were destroyed as the "civilized" world could only stand by and watch it happen.

ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"

Unfortunately, most people aren’t aware of Islam's murderous philosophy or they find it too monstrous to believe. However, a brief review of recent history and current events should make you doubters out there re-think your position. Two articles in the L.A. Times wrote about Muslims in Indonesia forcing Christians of all denominations to convert to Islam or get their throats slit. Thousands upon thousands of Christians were first converted and, according to rigid Islamic religious dictate, forced to undergo ****** mutilation of their foreskin or clitoris (with kitchen knives and razor blades) to make them conform to Muslim standards. Then they were are enslaved to their local Muslim chieftain. This was not some aberration of Islam but rather business as usual for all but the so-called "moderate" factions. This is Islam's sad legacy of murder, terror, lies and brainwashing to advance their cause of global conversion and subjugation... their so-called "personal struggle"... THEIR "Jihad!"

ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"

Other examples: Algeria is wracked by bitter fighting between Islamic Fundamentalists and the military. Death toll, 100,000 over a ten year period! Nigeria is in the midst of a war in which Muslims are murdering Christians and burning down their churches. Moslems against Christians. It doesn't take much to trigger an angry mob of Muslims. The Miss Universe Pageant was help there at the end of 2002. Muslim opposition to the pageant boiled over after a local journalist wrote that the prophet Mohammed would have approved of the contest and might even have wanted to marry one of the contestants. The ensuing riots in Kaduna left 220 dead and 400 wounded. In Kenya the Islamic Party has declared Holy War on the government. In Turkey the secular Muslim government is being challenged by the militant Refah Islamic Party. A civil war rages in the Sudan between Muslims in the north against the Christians in the south. Sudan's militant Muslim regime is slaughtering Christians who refuse to convert to Islam. In recent years, more than two million Sudanese have been killed out of a population of 35 million as its government used bombings and famine in its war on its own people. A war also raged between Muslim Eritrea and Christian Ethiopia. The result of fighting between Muslim Azerbaijans and Christian Armenians was 35,000 casualties. Armenia was shrunk because of territory "gained" by the "breeding-with-a- vengeance" Muslims population. Serbian Moslems looted Christian treasures in the process of destroying 107 churches and monasteries, both ancient and modern. In the former Soviet Union, breakaway Muslim republics (and their 55 million Muslims)... Chechnya (click HERE), Daghestan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan... have sparked insurrection against Orthodox Russian regimes and by the year 2050, Russia will be forced out of Central Asia by Islamic invaders from without AND within (Muslims have a birth rate 5 times that of non-Muslim Russians). The Great Russian Bear will be driven into permanent hibernation!

Will non-Islamic nations be forced to build a "Giant Wall" as China did to keep out the Islamicized Monguls? Will the electronically-enhanced, concrete wall the Israeli I.D.F. recently erected keep out the Arab-Palestinian terrorists?

ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"

Ten thousand Lebanese Christians were massacred in 1860s, while over 100,000 were killed in the Lebanese civil war of 1975-1990. Thousands of women were raped. That war was provoked by Yasser Arafat's PLO. Damour was once a thriving Christian Lebanese village until 500 (primarily young boys) were massacred and its population was expelled. This sort of violence and intolerance symbolizes treatment of Christians by Muslims in the Middle East. And, instead of an international arrest warrant Arafat received a Nobel Peace Prize!

Even non-Muslim Christians under Palestinian-controlled areas ["West Bank" and Gaza] are not faring so well. Bethlehem was 70 percent Christian in the 1970s. Today it is close to 70 percent Muslim. The growing Islamization of Palestinian society makes Christians very uncomfortable. The size of the Christian Arab community in the West Bank may have fallen as low as 10,000, a drop of 50 percent since the mid-1990s.


"Holy Land: Christians in Peril" ... $19.90
Order Online Or call Toll-Free 1-800-496-3266

Why have two million Christians fled the Middle East in the last twenty years? One of the most important aspects of the Israeli-"Palestinian" conflict that has been overlooked is the plight of Christians in the Holy Land. Christians in the "Palestinian" territories have dropped from 15% of the Arab population to just 2% today! This Christian exodus is a result of many factors, including the fighting between Israelis and "Palestinians," the related decline in the economy, but perhaps most significantly, the religious persecution these Christians encounter from their Arab Muslim neighbors. This film is a documentary containing interviews with Christians as well as exclusive footage showing how dangerous their situation is under Islamic rule.

Continuing on... Uighur Muslim separatist terrorists are active in Western China's Xinjiang Province. The Philippines is nearly 95% Catholic/Christian yet the Muslim rebel group called Abu Sayyaf (“Bearer of the Sword") have aligned with bin Laden's al Qaeda and want their own independent Islamic Nation. Kidnapping for ransom is so common here that the Philippines has often been described as the kidnapping capital of the world! War rages between Indonesian Muslims and the Christians in East Timor. Malaysia is a time-bomb ready to explode between Muslims and the minority Chinese and Indian populations.

Indonesia is composed of seventeen thousand islands that stretch over five thousand miles along the equator. Most are Muslims but there are substantial Christian, Hindu and Buddhist minorities. Christian churches were almost wiped out in a single weekend in Indonesia. One of Indonesia's islands is Bali. Most of Bali’s 3 million inhabitants are Hindu and hundreds of Hindu temples are part of its scenic beauty. Unlike other parts of Indonesia, Bali has maintained a relaxed, tolerant lifestyle, immune from the strife wracking the country in recent years. Hundreds of thousands of annual vacationers flock to Bali's luxury resorts and black beaches. They may no longer! On October 12, 2002 deadly explosions ripped through two popular nightclubs in the Kuta Beach area on Bali island, Indonesia, a destination popular with international tourists. The death toll from the bombings -- most recently confirmed at 187 -- is expected to rise as authorities believe there are still more than 200 people unaccounted for. Many of them are Australian holidaymakers. The scent of C4 explosives (similar to that used to blow up Israelis!) was everywhere which leads one to conclude that Muslim/Islamic terrorists had a hand in this... specifically, the Jemaah Islamiah group.

Islamic terror comes to India's streets and the new terrorists are not preoccupied with the "liberation" of Kashmir from India, their objective is a wider jihad aimed at changing India into an Islamic State. Yes, the Hindus in India have met the Sword of Islam and even burnt alive for refusing to accept Islam. Estimates go as high as a Muslim kill rate of 80,000,000 in Greater India! With 200 million Muslims being 20% of India's population, civil war can break out any time. It's even worse in Israel where Israeli Arabs number 23% of the Jewish State's population! See The Cancer Within.

Islamists in the 83 % Muslim country of Bangladesh aspire to establish a true "Islamic Republic" much like Afghanistan under the Taliban. Meanwhile, [according to The Nation magazine] members of minority religions have suffered from ghastly violence, including collective terror. Some Buddhists and Christians were blinded, had fingers cut off or had hands amputated, while others had iron rods nailed through their legs or abdomen. Women and children have been gang-raped, often in front of their fathers or husbands. Pakistani Muslim soldiers raped a quarter of a million Bangali women in 1971 after they massacred 3 million unarmed civilians. This atrocity is not considered a sin in Islam, because the religious leader of the soldiers decreed that Bangladeshis were infidels. In addition, hundreds of temples were desecrated and statues destroyed; thousands of homes and businesses looted or burned. As for Hindus, the human rights organization Freedom House reports they have been subject to "rape, torture and killing and the destruction of their cultural and religious identity at the hands of Muslims." In one indicative step, Islamists sometimes force Hindu women to dress in the Islamist fashion.

Colonel Khaddafy and his Libyan army have carried out numerous military excursions into neighboring Chad. Even Egypt's Christian Coptic community (less than 10% of the population) walks a fine line between tolerance and oppression.

ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


ISLAM MAY BECOME THE
GREATEST MURDERING FORCE
IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND
Islam has replaced the Soviet Union as the Evil Empire
and its "best days" may lie ahead as the forces of Islam gather steam!!!

First the Saturday People... (click link)

The Muslims have a saying: "First [destroy] the Saturday People (Jews)... then the Sunday People (Christians)." And when the Muslims tire of killing or converting non-Muslims, they go after other Muslims! The ten-year Iran-Iraq War resulting in the deaths of over one million deserving Muslims was said to have been fought over a land dispute. This is not entirely true for the underlying hatred between two conflicting views of Islam was the major spark that ignited this conflict.

Most of the so-called "moderate" Arab nations are scared to death of radical Islamic movements for they represent a most real physical threat to their continued absolute rule. For that reason alone, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Kuwait and all the other fictitious kingdoms throughout the Middle East gladly pay cash AND lip service to the most vicious of the Arab, Palestinian and Islamic Fundamentalist terrorists. The United States government, the State Department and other apologists may call them "friends" and "allies" but, in reality, they have nothing whatsoever in common with America. They are theocratic, backward and share NONE of the democratic traditions so valued in the West. "Friends" and "allies?" Hardly!

ATTAINING "CRITICAL MASS"
Among every four humans in the world, one of them is Muslim.
Islam is now the second largest religious group in France, Great Britain and USA!

There is no point in beating around the bush. The fact is that Islam is a militant, intolerant, incendiary religion whose adherents, whenever they establish "critical mass" of about 10 percent of a given population, begin to foment violence, revolt and Jihad --- in essence, a declaration of war on Western Civilization. A World War Three!

Battleground Europe...
by 2020 Muslims will account for 10% of the overall population of Europe

Don't think that Islamic activity is confined only to the Third World. Today, Muslims invade civilized countries under the benign guise of immigration. Their influence in Europe is growing steadily and will continue to do so unopposed until the Europeans finally wake up, although it's hard to tell if they can do it in time to save themselves. In fact, immigration accounted for 89 percent of Europe’s population growth during the 1990s! When Christian society was mighty, Muslim society was timid. Western Christian countries have lost their fervor. Many have acquired Muslim fifth columns, which they tolerate regardless of insults to the host countries. But now the Europeans are starting to panic. Their women cannot possibly reproduce as quickly as can fertile Muslim women! In thirty years the Muslim population of Great Britain rose from 82,000 to two million.... a 25-fold increase... nearly one-half million Muslims in London alone! This Islamic invasion is obviated by the sight of over one thousand mosques littering the British landscape. Even London itself has become a main launching pad for much of the pro-Islamic, pro-Arab and pro-Palestinian Internet propaganda! Over the past 20 years, say experts, Britain has become a headquarters for extremist Muslim clerics and a fertile recruitment ground for new followers.

In 30 years the Muslim population of Great Britain rose from 82,000 to two million.


Finsbury Park Mosque in North London, a Base for Islamic Extremism

Muslims in Britain have made it clear that they have no intention of assimilating. Dr. Zaki Badwari, former Director of the Islamic Cultural Centre of London wrote, "A proselytizing religion [like Islam] cannot stand still. Islam endeavors to expand in Britain. It aims at bringing its message to all corners of the earth. It hopes that one day the whole of humanity will be one Muslim community, the Umma." Britain operates as a strategic base for some of the most radical Islamic groups which preach hatred, incite to violence and recruit volunteers for terrorist activities. Britain now has one of the highest concentrations of closed-circuit TV cameras in Europe... nearly 1.5 million in operation! In late May 2001 the Brits were treated to their very own Muslim-Pakistani rioting! There is something deservedly humorous that this should happen to the pro-Muslim Brits who waste no time dumping on Israel! God Save the Queen! For more on Radical Islam In the U.K. click HERE. To see a partial list of Islamic Groups infesting England click HERE. Click HERE for more on how Muslims are transforming British society!

Two of Europe's most legally tolerant regions...namely, the Dutch-language areas around Europe's most important west coast harbors, Antwerp [Belgium] and Rotterdam [Netherlands]... as the main breeding ground for Muslim-fundamentalist terrorist groups. Osama bin Laden 's organization even runs shipping companies as fronts from Amsterdam.

Something rotten in Denmark? How about the 200,000 Muslim immigrants trying to dictate their anti-Israel, anti-America and anti-Western values upon 5 million Danes? Even though they represent only 4% of the population, the Muslims consume upwards of 40 percent of welfare spending. They also account for 65-75% of the country's convicted rapists... with almost all victims non-Muslim Danes! Demographers have predicted that in just 40 years, one out of every three Danes will be Muslim. At this point, we're sure the Danes wish it were their Jewish population which was growing faster than rabbits on a hot tin roof. Jews are almost always model citizens! But the Danish Jews only number 6,000.

Dateline Sweden: Cold temperatures have not discouraged Muslim immigration. One out of every 22 Swede are now Muslims and Islam is the nation's second largest religion. Of the nearly 9 million people in Sweden, 400,000 are Muslim, leading to a drastic increase in anti-Semitic acts against Sweden's 18,000 Jews. Say farewell to the stereotypical blue-eyed, blonde haired Swede.

In Holland [aka The Netherlands], because of its total lack of anti-terrorism laws and its very high level of religious, cultural and judicial tolerance, Muslim-fundamentalist terrorist groups are allowed to thrive. The Muslims now number about 6% of the population. In 20 years' time the majority of Holland's under 18 year old children will be Muslim. In fact, 50 per cent of the newborns during the next twenty years will be Muslim! A finger in the dike won't work this time, folks!

Two million Muslims have soaked into Germany; one million into Italy; 200,000 in Spain; 500,000 in Belgium...1/10th its entire population and 1/4 of Brussels, its capitol city. Half of all babies born in Belgium are now Muslims! In total, 11,000,000 Muslims have saturated Western Europe! It now becomes clear just who is organizing and marching in Europe's anti-Israel and anti-American demonstrations!

In Italy, 95% of all rapists are Muslims. Eighty-five percent of all murderers are Muslims. Ah, such a wonderful religion of peace! What does the Pope and the rest of the Vatican Church have to say about this? Nothing! And what will the ordinary Italian say when, in ten years, Muslims will be the majority in Italy!!!

France is faring no better. In 1945, there were 100,000 Muslims in France. A fifty fold increase since then now has them numbering 6 million out of a total population of 60 million! In twenty years, one out of every five Frenchmen will be a Muslim! Another telling statistic is that although the Muslims are 10% of France's population, 60% of the country's prison population are Muslims! All the urban suburbs are steered by Moslem black African or Arabic gangs. One-fifth of all births in France are Muslims! Mohammed is one of the most common names next to Pierre! And Paris has the largest Arab community outside of the Middle East! This is a result of a lenient immigration policy, high Muslim birthrate and conversions. A very high proportion of French Muslims are in the underclass, that segment of the population that relies not so much on education and work as on welfare and predatory activities. In fact, over one thousand Muslim neighborhoods are under monitoring throughout France. Seven hundred of those Muslim neighborhoods are listed as "violent" and nearly 400 hundred are listed as "very violent." Violence ranges from rape (95% of rapists are Muslim), murder (85% of murderers are Muslim), theft and looting of cars (58% committed by Muslims) and street fighting to assault on teachers and civil servants. Periodic outbursts of large-scale unrest or rioting sometimes occur. And, most distressing, are the high numbers of assaults or rebellions against the police. As does England, one thousand mosques are said to operate in France. Oh, mon dieu, what is a Frenchman to do! Click HERE for an audio of what Frenchmen (and all other cowardly, appeasing Europeans) should do because "Buddies, you're next!" Also, check out "The Death of France."

There are 14 to 17 million Muslims now live within the European Union. If only a minuscule fraction of the growing Muslim fundamentalist population of Europe were to join bin Laden's holy warriors (or some of the many Arab/Muslim/Islamic terrorist groups), internal-security officers would confront nightmare scenarios!

For more on "Islam's Immigrant Invasion of Europe" and sources of the above information, click HERE, HERE, HERE and HERE


ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AMERICA'S ISLAMIZATION
CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations) spokesman Ibrahim Hooper indicated in a 1993 interview with the Minneapolis Star Tribune that he wants to see the United States become a Muslim country.

Before Americans start pitying the poor Brits (who truly deserve a good bashing from Islam), they should checked their own neighborhoods! Besides Louis Farrakan's Nation of Islam, the Black Panther and New Black Panther Parties with all their black wanna-be Muslims, there are also REAL Muslims and their communities are springing up everywhere. In 1970 there were an estimated one-hundred thousand Muslims in the United States. Today, a mere 34 years later, the number is approximately 7-10 million! More than a quarter of a million people of Arab descent live in southeastern Michigan, making the area the second-largest Arab community outside the Middle East (after Paris, France). One frightening example of their prolific growth in American is Dearborn, Michigan. Of a total population of 90,000 Dearborn residents, 25,000 are now Arabs! And of all the Dearborn children under the age of 18, a full 58% are Arab children! Other developing centers of Arab/Muslim growth are Florida, Texas, New Jersey and California. God Bless America!

Every year huge numbers of Arabs/Muslims from Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Kuwaitis, Syria, Egypt, Albania and dozens of other ethnic Muslim states who hate America swarm into the United States and add to the already increasing numbers of Arab/Muslim. And every year hundreds of mosques, which preach the extermination of all non-Muslims and the Islamization of America, are being added to the thousands already pointing their minarets skyward. The vast majority (80%) of American mosques are funded with Saudi Arabian money and most subscribe to 18th century Wahhabism that calls for the spread of Islam through violence. Many mosques, "Islamic Learning Centers" and Arab/Muslim Student Unions are distributing large numbers of pamphlets and leaflets attacking Judaism, Christianity and other non-Muslim religions and urging young Americans (esp. angry black Americans) to convert to Islam! Not surprisingly, a large number of African-Americans convert to Islam while in the prison systems! The National Islamic Prison Foundation, which coordinates a campaign to convert inmates to Islam claim an average of 135,000 such conversions per year. And if thousands of self-hating, Leftwing Jews hadn't already converted to Buddhism, they too might be targeted!

The nerve of these evil people to exploit the freedoms given to them here in America and other democracies when their goal is to extinguish ALL freedom!

Many Arabs in America are a disloyal fifth column. They work relentlessly to undermine the U.S. struggle to survive in the face of the growing Muslim terrorist threat. The huge Muslim birthrate, Muslim immigration, the massive expansion of Muslim religious and educational institutions that convert Christians to Islam and the purchase of major U.S. companies by Muslim oil sheiks are all also part of their strategy. America's great friend (???), Saudi Arabia, from whose land came fifteen of the nineteen September 11th Arab hijackers (who flattened the World Trade Center, a portion of the Pentagon and made a very big hole in a Pennsylvania field), has for some time been spear-heading the spread of Islamic doctrine. The Saudis have wholly or partly financed some 210 Islamic Centers (check out this one in Boca Raton, Florida!!!), more than 1,500 mosques and 202 colleges and almost 2,000 schools for educating Muslim children in non-Islamic countries in Europe, Asia, South America, Canada, Australia and America. Check out the mosque near you and look for Islamic propagandists exalting the virtues of Islam to appear soon in YOUR kid's school. Speaking of schools, watch them try to infuse Islam and Islamic rights INTO school systems! Did you know that some Islamic schools in America are teaching hatred toward American Jews and Christians? And what about regular North American colleges and universities? Check out one of the so-called "social activities" of the M.S.A. (Muslim Student Association)! And don't forget to pick up the U.S. Postal Service's new 34 cent Eid-il-Mubarak stamp!

Note: For a better appreciation of the colonization of Arab/Islamic terror squads arrive, colonize and flourish in America and how they interconnect, recruit, raise money and use the American freedoms and legal system as a cover. [see booklist at bottom of page]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CANADA DOESN'T HAVE A PRAYER!

The U.S.- Canadian border is 4,000 miles long. Nearly all of this runs along territory which can never be fortified! Those seeking to sneak into the United States can do so by simply crossing waist high streams or forested areas. Geographically, Canada is the largest nation on earth [nearly 6.2 million square miles] yet her population is but a puny 28 million. The earliest record of a Muslim presence in Canada dates back to 1871 when the Canadian census recorded just 13 Muslim residents! One hundred and ten years later in 1981 there were 98,165 Muslims. And now, just 20 years after that last census, there are 400,000 Muslims in Canada! There are more than 80 mosques in Canada, four of which are located in Ottawa alone. In addition to mosques there are numerous locations in most major cities where space (known as musallah) is set aside for prayer purposes. In fact, Muslims now outnumber the Canadian-Jewish population and Islam is now the fastest-growing faith in Canada. One out of every fifty Canadians is a Muslim!

News Flash: Not all of these Muslims drive taxis! Experts estimate that there are at least 50 international terrorist organizations operating in Canada, including al-Qaida. Many of them are campus organizers pushing forward their anti-Israel and anti-West agendas. Thus, on September 9, 2002 on Montreal's Concordia University, violent clashes erupted between riot police and Arab/Muslim demonstrators preventing a speech by former Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu. So much for free speech and democratic values. Is this the sort of "secular, democratic state" that Arafat and his "Palestinian" nation-builders envision?

For a while there was talk about the province of Quebec (containing both Montreal and Quebec City) separating from Canada and forming its own government. Perhaps in time the Muslims will want a chunk of Canada for their own Islamic Republic!


For more on "Islam's Immigrant Invasion of North America" click HERE


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IT KEEPS GETTING WORSE...

Every single Muslim country on this planet is brutal dictatorships. Make no mistake about it. Islam is on the move and is prepared to extinguish any and all civilizations that get in its way. Muslims are fundamentally non-assimilatible. Many foot soldiers of Islam have been sent to the four corners of the globe to "blend in" as "sleepers" and form future terror cells to await the call for action. Islam stands out among "religions" for its murderous tendency wherever it builds up to "critical mass," typically 20% or more of a given population? (France, Belgium and the Balkins ALREADY have at least a 10% Muslim population!) How many countries have been, or will be, partitioned or redrawn to accommodate Islamic constituencies? With the world's Muslim population now DOUBLING every 35 years, the trends are clear and these processes are irreversible. Unless the civilized world resists and fights back, Muslims will vanquish the planet within a few decades. Only THEN will the "civilized world" know what devilish barbarism and uncompromising rigidity Israel has for so long been up against!!!

ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. One out of every five people in the world is now a Muslim! One out of every three babies born in the world today are Muslim. Apparently the Muslims can still breed with a vengeance much faster than they can purge each other off the planet. Interestingly, there are no "hate groups" in 'Islamic countries. They don't need hate groups as long as hate is institutionalized right from the local mosques! For sure the most dangerous time on the streets for non-Muslims is right after the mosque prayers end on Friday evening!

ISLAM: "Religion of Peace?"

There seems to be no end to the limitless supply of willing Jihadist martyrs volunteering into the service of Allah. In the Israeli/Arab-Palestinian conflict alone, Muslim children rush forward to confront Israeli soldiers (guarding Jewish settlements) with rocks, Molotov Cocktails, iron bars... all in the name of Islam. Summer camps for Palestinian children teach not how to sing and play but rather how to fire automatic weapons and properly strap dynamite onto their chests! They are taught a hatred of Jews and a love of death... right from the cradle! Click HERE for "Seeds of Hatred" Audio/Video

The vast majority of Muslims, even in the West, are loyal and wedded to basic Koranic values. At best, they are passive supporters of fundamentalist and militant Islam and hope for the eventual destruction of Israel; at worst, they are vocal (or active) supporters of the Arab suicidal/homicidal bombers and plot for the eventual transformation of Western, democracies into Islamic nations. This is not to say there aren't Muslims who are "good" people; obviously there are. But Muslim culture, values and outlook is warlike, violent, undemocratic and with a set of rules and values diametrically opposed to Judeo-Christian teachings. Will the Muslim world ever change or try to compromise? THIS is indeed unlikely for they have declared that "any compromise is impossible for us since the Islamic Laws were laid down by Allah himself, not by men!" So the next time you feel like lecturing Israel on how to get along with the Muslim world, think instead how YOU will get along with that same Muslim world when they come looking for you!






Induction Into the Service of Islam...
or Maternal Instincts Turned Inside-Out!

"The only way Muslims can have assurance of salvation and eternal life is by becoming a martyr for the cause of Islam... dying and killing for the cause of Islam is not only an honor, but also a way of pleasing Allah." .... From Reza F. Safa, author of Inside Islam.

For Audio File on Islam's Children Martyrs click HERE



WARNING: WORLD WAR THREE IS UNDERWAY and it's much more sinister than you could have imagined. When did it start? Fourteen centuries ago. Who started it? An insane pedophile named Mohammed who, along with his gang of terrorists, formed the savagely oppressive, dehumanizing religion of Islam.

Through centuries of fanatical conquests (Jihads) and terrorism (when Jihads failed), Islam has metastasized into a modern day world cancer. As we speak, the civilized world is beginning to collapse under it and has no idea how to react. How does one stop a grotesque cult which will settle for nothing less than TOTAL world domination? So while the U.S. looks under every rock for Osama bin Laden, the bloody borders of Islam are closing in on all sides... for in fact EVERY American Muslim has the potential to become a bin Laden or an abettor of a bin Laden!

Even a Jew-basher/Israeli-basher like Pat Buchanan has it correct when he wrote... "In population, Islam is exploding, the West dying. Islamic warriors are willing to suffer defeat and death, the West recoils at casualties. They are full of grievance; we, full of guilt. Where Islam prevails, it asserts a right to impose its dogma, while the West preaches equality. Islam is assertive, the West apologetic – about its crusaders, conquerors and empires. Don't count Islam out. It is the fastest growing faith in Europe and has surpassed Catholicism worldwide. And as Christianity expires in the West and the churches empty out, the mosques are going up." WorldnetDaily-12/7/01

An impending disaster lies ahead. Unfortunately the U.S. military cannot help for it was always preparing for the wrong war. Soviet or Chinese communism was never driven by such fanaticism. Besides, the Russians stayed in Russian and the Chinese in China. By contrast, the Soldiers of Islam are spreading into all societies... first as simple shop owners and cab drivers, then students, then student activists, then violent agitators and finally assassins and bombers. Look for a mosque to appear soon in YOUR neighborhood.



SUGGESTION
Christians, Jews and Hindus should really think about joining forces instead of getting on their knees like young girls begging not to be gang raped!




* * *






FROM THE KORAN ITSELF...
"HEIL HITLER" Now Upgraded to "ALLAH AKBAR?"

You may already know about this one: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. [al-Ma'idah 5:51.11]

But did you know that there are 123 verses in the Quran concerning fighting and killing for the cause of Allah? Here are but a few passages:

-Muslims are encouraged to be wholly occupied (Sura 2:273) with fighting for Allah's cause.

- Allah will give "a far richer recompense to those who fight for him" (Sura 4:96).

- Regarding infidels (unbelievers), they are the Muslim's "inveterate enemies" (Sura 4:101). Muslims are to "arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere" (Sura 9:5) for them. They are to "seize them and put them to death wherever you find them, kill them wherever you find them, seek out the enemies of Islam relentlessly" (Sura 4:90). "Fight them until Islam reigns supreme" (Sura 2:193). "Cut off their heads, and cut off the tips of their fingers" (Sura 8:12).

- If a Muslim does not go to war, Allah will kill him (Sura 9:39). He is to be told, "the heat of war is fierce, but more fierce is the heat of Hell-fire" (Sura 9:81).

- A Muslim must "fight for the cause of Allah with the devotion due to him" (Sura 22:78)

- Muslims must make war on the infidels (unbelievers) who live around them (Sura 9:123).

- Muslims are to be "ruthless to unbelievers" (Sura 48:29).

- A Muslim should "enjoy the good things" he has gained by fighting (Sura 8:69).

- A Muslim can kill any person he wishes if it be a "just cause" (Sura 6:152).

- Allah loves those who "fight for his cause" (Sura 61:3).
Anyone who fights against Allah or renounces Islam in favor of another religion shall be "put to death or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off alternative sides" (Sura 5:34).

- Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him. Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57)

- Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5)

- Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. (Koran 69:30-37)

- I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (Koran 8:12)

- They should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides. (Koran 5:33)

- Know that paradise is under the shades of swords. Sahih al-Bukhari Vol 4 p55

And Speaking of Paradise...

"There will be "gushing fountains" and everyone "shall recline on jeweled couches face to face, and there shall wait on them immortal youths with bowls and ewers and a cup of purest wine." Suras (or chapters) 55 and 56 of the Quran.

"Therein are bashful virgins whom neither man nor jinnee will have touched before ... virgins as fair as corals and rubies," sura 55. A few lines later, you might remind them of "virgins chaste and fair ... they shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets."

"The smallest reward for the people of Paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana'a.'"

It will be the day, God willing, you spend with the women of paradise...Know that the gardens of paradise are waiting for you in all their beauty, and the women of paradise are waiting, calling out, "Come hither, friend of God."

For much more on "PARADISE... A Better World?" click HERE

.




.
UPDATE 9-11
LOOK FOR MORE LOW-FLYING 757s


-- September 11, 2001 NYC World Trade Center Towers --
Islamic Fundamentalist fanatics conduct a Wall Street "transaction!"
We are facing an enemy that will not rest until they are either successful in destroying our blessed nation or destroyed themselves!
(Don't say we didn't warn you!)

Some Americans will continue to portray the September 11, 2001 attacks as the work of a lunatic fringe rather than of a global religious movement. The perpetrators of the attacks in New York and Washington are being portrayed as Muslim "extremists" when in fact, they were "faithful" Muslims. Most of the Muslims in America are also "faithful" to Islam. Don't say we haven't warned you about this either!

Another thing... If you're a Western European and are feeling sorry for Americans, don't bother. Your countries are ALREADY Muslim-infested beyond salvage! Southern France has more mosques than churches. In fact, 10% of Frances "Frenchmen are Arabs! (And France thinks Israel is a sh**y country!!) And to all you other Europeans who sell out Israel for Arab oil, you too will soon have YOUR September 11th. Guaranteed!

Warning to Americans: As long as you continue to be force-fed a daily sanitized version of Islam by corrupt media outlets like CNN or a State Department campaign declaring that America is at war against terrorists but not Islam, your Middle East policy will continue to be marked by failure and your interests both home and abroad will remain in danger.







IS THE WEST AT WAR WITH ISLAM?
Definitely Not

IS ISLAM AT WAR WITH US?
OH, YEAH!


The New Anti-Semitism Driven by Islam
.

L I N K S

All About Islam
Hindu View of Islam
Anti-Muslim Society (A.M.S.)
Frequently Asked Questions About Islam




BOOKS


Militant Islam Reaches America $18.17
by Daniel Pipes

Maybe There Is Some Hope!

The Trouble With Islam $22.95
by Irshad Manji

.In a Nutshell Series presents...
"Anti-Semitism and Islamic Expansionism"





Thanks...
I'll make sure I read it all when I have a few days to waste...
btw...most of it i have read before and countered.....

[Rebel 7]

I remember you used to post that anti - russia and anti Israel bull****. so indeed you are a hypocrite like how you said the arab world iare hypocrites in the above post

Oh, let me guess, are you a Russian Jew?

:cantbeli:

[born_to_kill]

It takes you a couple days to read the equivelant of about one page?

[IDFM203]

Thanks for your arguments....
You have some very good points and I will address them, but I do not want to do a half-assed job of it since I have to go to work soon..so i apologize if my response takes a while...ok, in truth I Will admit to you that I did in fact make half ass reponses on my response to your last question in your last post to me, for I have gone over it in much more detail before and I am getting a bit tired of it.

Though I guess I should expect another long round of this, huh? :roll: As much as I don’t relish the thought of going over it again (and again and again etc…) and perhaps I wont this time, though the fact that your Muslim is in a way a nice change of pace then arguing against the usual Euro supporters of the Arab cause against Israel, though again we will see if I will go over it again, for trust me, no matter what you bring down, there is a good chance I already addressed it in lengthy detail before on this site.


Anyways as of this issue with the Mossad, as of now you have brought NO proof whatsoever to any of your claims, whereas the burden of proof is on YOU to show it being that it is YOU (and that writers that you brought down) to prove their claims, which they have NOT done.

I will just address a few lines from you for it’s obvious you didn’t get it the first time.



It has been known that Mossad uses deception to further its activities. .........yes its been known that the CIA, British intelligence, French intelgence, German intelligence, Russian intelligence in fact almost ALL world intelligence agencies use deception, for spying is deception. That’s the nature of spying.

However I repeat”
IMO the difference is that the Mossad tries to act morally right and ONLY targets murderess and killers or those that want to destroy us, now is the Mossad, perfect? No (as no one is) does the Mossad makes mistakes? Yes (as everyone does), however IMO overall its has acted just in what is acceptable behaviors for what a spy agency does MOST of the time!!



Now, if an agency uses deception and people have openly admitted to that...why the hell would anything this agency does surprise you, especially when it involves no it uses deception (spying) to act only against those that have murdered or are planning to murder, it doesn’t use deception to act in the way you insiuated.

To the latter you have brought no proof and as such its reeks of pure hogwash made up by the usual types that revel in these sorts of things.



Agents of Mossad have been caught with fake passports and the report about the 2 Mossad agents and Jews dancing at the site of the WTC is not something reported by a few conspiracy theory sitesyes it was reported by others and yet they all have concluded that there is no proof that they were Mossad agents at all!!

Also there were hundreds, if not thousands that were filming that day and they were of all nationalities, gees I guess every nations spies were out in full force that day..huh? :cantbeli:

Gees I also guess Americans who took pictures that day are also spies? :cantbeli:


Secondly even if they were Mossad agents, where is proof that they knew before hand, in other words so say there were Mossad agents in the U.S. who is to say they knew before hand just because they were filming that day?? or rather also where is proof that if they did know before hand they did not warn the U.S. beforehand??

As for dancing, first of all where is it anywhere that they did that?? Secondly, no, Israelis for the MOST part did not do any such thing, unlike A LOT of your Muslim brethren that did in fact openly celebrate on that day.

Shalom :D

[Javehn]

I remember you used to post that anti - russia and anti Israel bull****. so indeed you are a hypocrite like how you said the arab world iare hypocrites in the above post

Oh, let me guess, are you a Russian Jew?

:cantbeli:

No , but i am . :lol:
You makes an intellegent person posts , thought many people couldn't agree with it , and i find the writters of those things you brought to much into conspiracy theories . Unfortunatly i don't have time or want to , to read all the articles one by one .

[2Sheds_Jackson]

As long as this thread continues to fall off the cliff of reality, here are some other interesting factoids;


Mohammed's birth is celebrated on the 11th day of the 9th month

September 11th is the 254th day of the year: 2 + 5 + 4 = 11.

After September 11th there are 111 days left to the end of the year.

119 is the area code to Iraq/Iran. 1 + 1 + 9 = 11.

Twin Towers - standing side by side, looks like the number 11.

The number of stories is 110 (2x) 110 - 110
Remember that the zero "0" is not a number, so we have 11:11

The number of Tower windows = 21,800 2+1+8+0+0 = 11

The third building #7 to fall had 47 stories = 4+7=11

The first plane to hit the towers was Flight 11

American Airlines number1-800-245-0999

1+8+0+0+2+4+5+0+9+9+9=47 = 11

State of New York - The 11th State added to the Union

New York City - 11 Letters

Afghanistan - 11 Letters

The Pentagon - 11 Letters

Ramzi Yousef - 11 Letters
(convicted of orchestrating the bombing attack on the WTC in 1993.
He is a blind man.
He was a Muslim teacher in a mosque)

If you annagram 'Osama bin Laden' you get.... "A blind Man O sea"....
'Man o sea' is spanish for..."a man that is"
If you say it...'A Man o sea blind' it means... 'A man that is blind'
If you put in "a man o sea blind" into a language translator
it gives you back... ' to the man that is blind'
Since Osama bin Laden means 'A man that is blind'
you have 'the blind man leading the blind'

George W. Bush - 11 Letters

Flight 11 - 92 on board - 9 + 2 = 11

Flight 11 had 11 crew members

Flight 77 - 65 on board - 6 + 5 = 11

On Friday 9-13-2001, President George W. Bush went to the WTC to talk with and thank the Firefighters, rescuers, and police officers who have given their time and hearts tirelessly 24 hours a day since the horrible tragedy. President Bush stood on top of a pile of rubble with a firefighter whose helmet was numbered 164.
1+6+4 = 11

The train which was stopped and two suspected terrorist arrested near San Antonio, Texas was #121 = 11 x 11

The first plane to hit the towers was Flight 11 by
American Airlines or AA - A=1st letter in alphabet so we have again 11:11

The house where the terrorist are believed to have lived had # 10001
(don't count the zeros)

Flight 11, 93, 175, 77 -

If these numbers are broken down, 11 actually remains the same in numerology,
93 becomes 12, 175 becomes 13 and 77 becomes 14. 11 - 12 - 13 - 14
Broken down again and you have 2 - 3 = 4 - 5.
Add them all up and break them all down!

11 + 93 + 175 + 77 = 356 = 14 = 5

11 + 12 + 13 + 14 = 50 = 5

2 + 3 + 4 + 5 = 14 = 5

Twin Towers =11 + Flight 11 + September, 11th = 33

The number "33" is linked to Freemasonry.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
REVELATION 11:11 COMES TO PASS

Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; [and], behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Celestial objects were used by God to communicate with man his plan of salvation and redemption. For example in Joseph’s dream the sun, moon and 11 stars were bowing down to him. His father rebuked him and said, "What is this dream that you have had? Shall I and your mother and your brothers actually come to bow ourselves down before you to the ground". Genesis 37:9-10. Here we see the sun and moon representing the father and mother and the stars representing the twelve sons.

In Eastern astrological traditions, astrology is used to assure astrological blessings of success.

On September 11, 2001, The star Geminorum13, one of 48 stars of Gemini was inside the crescent moon at 1:11 a.m.

Gemini 's Castor and Pollux represents "The Twins" ... symbolizing the Twin Towers

Note how the description of Gemini matches the Flag of Islam


OSAMA BIN LADEN=

A ABANDON SMILE A BALSAM DONE IN A BANAL DEMON IS A SANDMAN BE OIL
A ANIMAL BED SON A SALAMI NOB END A ALMA BED SIN ON A ANAL BEND I'M SO
A ANAL BIND ME SO A ANAL SIB DEMON I'M A ANAL END SOB I'M ON A NASAL BED
A MANA BLED IS ON A MANA BEND SOIL A MANA IDLE SNOB ANNA IS A BOLD ME
A NASA MOBIL END IN A BAD LAME SON A BAD LAME SON IN A MALE ON BAD SIN
BAD SIN ON A MALE A BANED ON ISLAM A BAD NEON ISLAM A SO BAD MAN NAIL
I AM A BAD NELSON AM A BAD NILE SON IS A LONE BAD MAN A BAD MANN LIE SO
A BAD MAN LIES ON BAND A ISLAM ONE MAD ON A LESBIAN DAM ON A LESBIAN
ON A ABLE MAD SIN I ABLE DAMN A SON A ABLE MAN DO SIN I A SAD NOBLEMAN
A LEBANON MIDAS AS I DAM LEBANON I'M A LEBANON SAD A DENIAL MAN SOB
A MAD ALIEN SNOB BE ON A MAD SLAIN A MAD INANE SLOB A INSANE AM BOLD
ISLAMABAD NONE DEMO IN NASA LAB LAMB DIE ON NASA BAD NAME AS LION


There's loads of this gargage on the Internet....and of course it all means nothing. Rebel 7, your stories belong in there too. Just give it up.

[Mark_Aspen]

So about them Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

Can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt... :roll:

[born_to_kill]

just some stupid raghead spewing propoganda

[citizen-k]

So about them Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

Can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt... :roll:

Do you want me to Email you a copy? ;)

[big80a2]

chears

Yes, the arab world is hypocritical, even a 4th grader knows that. I think most of you assume because I am not a fan of Mossad that I am advocating the Arabs. I am not. I have been against their hypocrisy for a very long time. Look at Iraq today, the Iraqis wanted Saddam ousted and when he was they now want the ones who ousted him out (the US). Look at Sadr, the man who didn't have the balls to talk during Saddam's reign now talks against the US (the same people who gave him the right and freedom to talk what he wants). Don't make half-assed assumptions about me, you don't know me. You don't know my intentions and they aren't what you so childishly claim.

Well what's your point than?? you start about mossad... and than you turn with this question about taking ones house etc etc....
You creat assumptions.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Hey, if you guys are controlling the world and all that - how come you have so much free time?

[Universal]

Rebel7 you are my new hero, its always a pleasure to read from guys like yourself. :hug:

born_to_kill, you're the biggest idiot I've ever heard of. :bash:
cya guys later

[born_to_kill]

bye bro!

[ExtraT]

Rebel 7, I hereby grant you a permanent place in The Local Zoo.

In addition, you receive the honorary title of "The Cnspiracy Nutjob of The Local Zoo" :)

You should be proud - not many people are honored in such a way.

[Rebel 7]

First, oh the Mossad uses deception, oh gees who would have thought a spy agency uses deception :roll: …I guess only the Mossad does that :cantbeli: (in case you didnt realize that was sarcasm)

If deception is considered okay in your standards to justify illegal acts, no a wrong act is wrong act, but it’s a fact of life that ALL spy agencies just by the nature of what they are, are always operating illegally in other countries, I mean spying is illegal just by the nature of it.


Where IMO the difference is that the Mossad tries to act morally right and ONLY targets murderess and killers or those that want to destroy us, now is the Mossad, perfect? No (as no one is) does the Mossad makes mistakes? Yes (as everyone does), however IMO overall its has acted just in what is acceptable behaviors for what a spy agency does MOST of the time!!


As for laughing after 911……wow :cantbeli: no the only ones laughing at the U.S. in the middle east was your brethren dancing in the streets celebrating openly for all those deaths of those innocent man women and children that SOME of your brethren murdered.

The last things MOST Israeli would do is laugh at the U.S. for that tragedy unlike your brethren that did in fact do it!!



You haven't proven the article wrong! what article? I mean where did he prove that Israelis celebrated??

Can you prove that Israelis celebrated on that day??

I Mean I can prove that your brethren celebrated (just ask and I will show you some pics)

He (and you) made claims but no proof and as such the burden of proof is on YOU to provide the proof and not on me.


The fact is that there are numerous sources, names taken, police reports, that indicate that these five guys were Jews and that two of them were Mossad agents.
Stop right there….ok where is the evidence that they were Mossad agents.

Secondly where is the evidence that the Mossad knew about 911???? or that we brought down the towers???

Show it to me.

You haven’t shown me evidence at all for me even to bother to try to counter.

Again “He (and you) made claims but no proof and as such the burden of proof is on YOU to provide the proof and not on me.


SOME of your brethren murdered.


Brethren When I say brethren I am referring to Muslim brethren where IMO you all share a commem theme for the most part with regards to Israel.

As for your claims, you merely counter argue his with further claims without evidence for what you are arguing.
He brought no evidence to anything and as such I didn’t address it.

He has opinions and I have mine.

IMO my opinions at least put things in proper perceptive.

And again (now for the third time)

“He (and you) made claims but no proof and as such the burden of proof is on YOU to provide the proof and not on me”


One question for you and please anwer this seriously:
Do you feel it is morally right to force a people out of their land and take up residence there? What are you views on what is moral and immoral in regards to this issue? Can I ask you a question, do you feel its morally right to lie about this?

My view is that after the Arabs rejected to live in coexistence with Israel, then 7 Arab nations invaded to kill every Jew, and as such a lot of them fled at the behest of their Arab brethren, those that chose to stay were granted Israeli citizenship to where there are over 1 million Israeli Arabs, hardly an act of expulsion (I mean if we were doing that, we wouldn’t accapt anyone).

Now IMO still a lot of them still want to destroy the WHOLE Israel and they still actively fight for that and a lot of them support them that do.

(You know I have gone over this a few times already and I brought down numerous proofs and a lot more details to back up what I just said, I suggest you search my posts on this to see some of them)

Her are a few questions of me to you..

Do you feel its morally right for the Arabs in the past to fight in a effort to Kill EVERY Jew?

Also at the same token, do you feel its morally right for the Arabs to expel all the Jews from their nations?? And what did the Jews do in those Arab nations to warrant expulsion??

Anyways I have to go now, so I will try to address anything you say if you do respond later.

Shalom :D

Okay since I don't have a great deal of time, I'll focus on the points that I have a problem with.


Can you prove that Israelis celebrated on that day??

I Mean I can prove that your brethren celebrated (just ask and I will show you some pics)

He (and you) made claims but no proof and as such the burden of proof is on YOU to provide the proof and not on me.

As for dancing, first of all where is it anywhere that they did that?? Secondly, no, Israelis for the MOST part did not do any such thing, unlike A LOT of your Muslim brethren that did in fact openly celebrate on that day.


There is either two things wrong here.

1) Either companies such as 20/20, the New York Post, etc. are run by lunatics and morons who have no clue to what the hell they are talking about and love making up lies about Jews and love making up conspiracy theories....OR 2) That what they reported did in fact happen (ie. dancing Jews). This isn't some joke, this is a serious allegation. Police reports were conducted, names were given and yet amidst all this we are suppose to believe that IT didn't happen because some tourist wasn't there to take a picture of these clowns dancing. Here is a piece from the 20/20 article:

"The driver of the van, Sivan Kurzberg, told the officers, "We are Israeli. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem." The other passengers were his brother Paul Kurzberg, Yaron Shmuel, Oded Ellner and Omer Marmari."

As well: "Steven Gordon, the attorney for the five Israeli detainees,...."

As for asking for photos as your only route to acceptable evidence. That is not only pathetic but proposterious. A killer can also claim that he didn't commit a crime because no photos of him committing the crime exist. If this was some sick joke 20/20 or the New York post or other media sources were playing, they would be out of business for their stupidity and lack of professionalism. Here is the rest of it:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/2020_whitevan_020621.html

A lawyer doesn't go to the victim of his client and say, "Since you don't have any visual evidence, your allegations are lies and false." Instead, the witness' accounts are described and thoroughly questioned until it is found to be stable and valid or unstable and false. Now, the names of the culprits have been given, the name of their lawyer has been given as well as a whole patch of other info that can be investigated and the truth be found. Oh and in case you were wondering about whether the two were Mossad agents:
"Since their arrest, plenty of speculation has swirled about the case, and what the five men were doing that morning. Eventually, The Forward, a respected Jewish newspaper in New York, reported the FBI concluded that two of the men were Israeli intelligence operatives."


My view is that after the Arabs rejected to live in coexistence with Israel, then 7 Arab nations invaded to kill every Jew, and as such a lot of them fled at the behest of their Arab brethren, those that chose to stay were granted Israeli citizenship to where there are over 1 million Israeli Arabs, hardly an act of expulsion (I mean if we were doing that, we wouldn’t accapt anyone).

Now IMO still a lot of them still want to destroy the WHOLE Israel and they still actively fight for that and a lot of them support them that do.


You did not answer my question! You merely beated around the bush. Arabs rejected to live in coexistence and you guys did a pre-emptive attack because you guys were most likely to get attacked and so you defended yourselves. That is understandable and I don't disagree with you on that. However, that is NOT an excuse to continue taking land and claiming it as Israeli land when in fact it isn't. The 6-day war was over in what...1967 and yet in 2004 the Israelis are continuing to occupy and settle in on Palestinian land. This is what I do not agree to and this is what you avoided answering.


Do you feel its morally right for the Arabs in the past to fight in a effort to Kill EVERY Jew?

No, and thus I can understand why Israel committed a pre-emptive attack.


Also at the same token, do you feel its morally right for the Arabs to expel all the Jews from their nations?? And what did the Jews do in those Arab nations to warrant expulsion??

No, I do not feel it is right at all for any Jew to be expelled from an Arab nation. Hatred for people based on their ethnicity, religion, colour is something I have never supported and have actively argued against.

(You amongst the rest of the people who disagree with me seems to be the only one who can be civil. Thank you. It is the main reason why I addressed your post with seriousness and attempt to present my ideas and arguments.)

Take care.....

[Rebel 7]

Rebel 7, I hereby grant you a permanent place in The Local Zoo.

In addition, you receive the honorary title of "The Cnspiracy Nutjob of The Local Zoo" :)

You should be proud - not many people are honored in such a way.

This reminds me of an incident that happened a while ago. I was walking down to the subway station and a homeless man with dirty and torn clothes approached me and started yelling profanity and insults at me. I was thrown aback. Here was this man who didn't know who I was, my personality, my feelings, and yet he was screaming profanity and insults at me. A woman ran up to the man, grabbed him by his hands and walked him away. She then apologized to me very sincerely. I later found out that that man was mentally challenged and did not know what he was saying or who he was saying it to. I forgave him.

Those who continue to insult me don't bring me down or degrade my character and reputation, but rather themselves, the manners in which they were raised, the way they were taught to communicate, and their lack of being a human with the ability to reason and communicate like one. Ironic how the one who acts like an animal calls others animals. Pathetic!

[ExtraT]

....
I forgave him.


How very Christian of you! :lol:

Personally, I don't believe in forgivenness - this concept has been greatly abused in the last couple of thousand years, and over time lost it's true meaning.



Those who continue to insult me don't bring me down or degrade my character and reputation, but rather themselves, ....
Ironic how the one who acts like an animal calls others animals. Pathetic!
Why don't you apply these fine ideas to yourself once in a while? Or, maybe you think that posting antisemitic propaganda is not insulting to some people?

And one more thing: have you ever considered, how many JEWS were killed in 9/11 attacks? And how many of them were Israeli citizens?

[Saranof]

Do you feel its morally right for the Arabs in the past to fight in a effort to Kill EVERY Jew?

Also at the same token, do you feel its morally right for the Arabs to expel all the Jews from their nations?? And what did the Jews do in those Arab nations to warrant expulsion??

In the past, Arabs have been much nicer to Jews than anyone else ever has been. Mecca was i cultural metropol in the days. The reason for recent hate against Jews from the arab side has roots in the Israel/Palestine conflict.
So if you wanna go historical with it, blame the Christians (nowadays, the US) more, cos they've killed loads more Jews.


Shalom, as you say ;)

[Rebel 7]

....
I forgave him.


How very Christian of you! :lol:

Personally, I don't believe in forgivenness - this concept has been greatly abused in the last couple of thousand years, and over time lost it's true meaning.



Those who continue to insult me don't bring me down or degrade my character and reputation, but rather themselves, ....
Ironic how the one who acts like an animal calls others animals. Pathetic!
Why don't you apply these fine ideas to yourself once in a while? Or, maybe you think that posting antisemitic propaganda is not insulting to some people?

And one more thing: have you ever considered, how many JEWS were killed in 9/11 attacks? And how many of them were Israeli citizens?


Why don't you apply these fine ideas to yourself once in a while? Or, maybe you think that posting antisemitic propaganda is not insulting to some people?

I guess anything that goes against your views is now anti-semitic uh?! Pathetic! The anti-semitic card has been used too often and is a cheap method to avoid facing an argument. You seem to make good use and abuse of this cheap method.


Personally, I don't believe in forgivenness

Personally, I don't care! Whether its a lack of comprehension for its meaning or whether its something more rooted in your thinkng (or lack thereof) and views....I doubt you would ever truly grasp or apply such a virtuous concept.

And as for my forgiving the man being very Christian of me, it is also very Muslim-like of me.....but then how would you know?!...I mean this is coming from a guy who probably has relied on people like Irshad Manji or the Taliban to enlighten him on Islam rather than reading the Quran. There are children like you (who lack the ability to reason like a human)out there who judge Catholics by looking at Hitler or Christians by looking at KKK or Judaism by looking and generalizing from a group of hate-filled Jews who hate on Muslims.

Next time you decide to post something...do me a favour and actually think beforehand.

[fokket]

Heh.. i remember when 9/11 happened everyone talked about it and was really sad in my school and the teachers talked about it like it happened to us and how do we feel about it...

and i remember while whole israel was really sad we saw in the TV that arbs from all over the world (and mainly in palastine) cheered man everyone were so mad on them (i remember i said to my self damn they are sooo dead when USA will get them...)


If they have more than 2 brain cells, they would have known that
they were gonna get their ass in flame. Is that why they were cheering?

[ExtraT]

I guess anything that goes against your views is now anti-semitic uh?! Pathetic!

Actually, I consider only one kind of matrial antisemitic: the kind that incites racial hatred against the Jewish people.

And the garbage you deemed so important that you posted it on this forum in it's entirety does exactly that - it encites hatred against Jews.



I mean this is coming from a guy who probably has relied on people like Irshad Manji or the Taliban to enlighten him on Islam rather than reading the Quran.


Why would I waste my time reading all that crap? I'm not interested in Islam, as a religion.
Also, I don't know Arabic, and I would have to rely on a probably inaccurate translation.

Also, the Quran itself doesn't matter. It's the presently dominant interpretation of Quran that matters, and this is dictated by politics and racial hatred, and has almost nothing to do with the religion.
Because of that interpretation (and people like you who defend it), your beloved Islam degenerated into a religious form of nazism.
Keep up the good work! rofl



There are children like you...


You assume too much. That will be your undoing one day.



Next time you decide to post something...do me a favour and actually think beforehand.

And next time you post something - don't be a troll, we have too many of these in The Zoo already. Why won't you be a Panda instead? Or, say, an American Bold Eagle? rofl

[Rebel 7]

I guess anything that goes against your views is now anti-semitic uh?! Pathetic!

Actually, I consider only one kind of matrial antisemitic: the kind that incites racial hatred against the Jewish people.

And the garbage you deemed so important that you posted it on this forum in it's entirety does exactly that - it encites hatred against Jews.



I mean this is coming from a guy who probably has relied on people like Irshad Manji or the Taliban to enlighten him on Islam rather than reading the Quran.


Why would I waste my time reading all that crap? I'm not interested in Islam, as a religion.
Also, I don't know Arabic, and I would have to rely on a probably inaccurate translation.

Also, the Quran itself doesn't matter. It's the presently dominant interpretation of Quran that matters, and this is dictated by politics and racial hatred, and has almost nothing to do with the religion.
Because of that interpretation (and people like you who defend it), your beloved Islam degenerated into a religious form of nazism.
Keep up the good work! rofl



There are children like you...


You assume too much. That will be your undoing one day.



Next time you decide to post something...do me a favour and actually think beforehand.

And next time you post something - don't be a troll, we have too many of these in The Zoo already. Why won't you be a Panda instead? Or, say, an American Bold Eagle? rofl

This is my last reply to animals such as yourself since it seems pointless arguing with a fool whose only intentions are to annoy people rather than indulge in a meaningful argument. You know why people hate you as an individual, its not because you are Jewish, it is simply because you are a moron. Hating morons is not anti-semitism buddy! Grow up!

[ExtraT]

This is my last reply to animals such as yourself since it seems pointless arguing with a fool whose only intentions are to annoy people rather than indulge in a meaningful argument.


"Meaningful argument"? What argument is that? the argument about the hateful matrial you put in the beginning of the thread?? The stupid, uncorroborated, baseless accusations in this article? And every time people tell you that, you don't offer ANYTHING meningful in responce!! THat's why I said that you belong in The Local Zoo.
"The Local Zoo" (a term that I introduced to this forum) is not an implication that you are an animal, no. It's an implication that you are a weired person, unable (apparently) to think logically, and as such you are an intersting item that normal people (who are abundant on this forum, thanks G-d) would be interested to gaze at from time to time. Provided, of course, that you are safely confined in your cage.



You know why people hate you as an individual...

Again, you assume too much. If you hate me, it doesn't mean others hate me. In fact, There only a few people on this forum that expressed hate towards me.

And, generally, why is it so easy for you to hate people? I, personally, can't think of anybody I really hate. Even the scum I would kill on the spot without hesitation or regret - I still don't hate them.
You however: I wrote a couple of well deserved jokes that you didn't like - and now you hate me!
Maybe you should go see a psychiatrist about that, eh?

[Rebel 7]

This is my last reply to animals such as yourself since it seems pointless arguing with a fool whose only intentions are to annoy people rather than indulge in a meaningful argument.


"Meaningful argument"? What argument is that? the argument about the hateful matrial you put in the beginning of the thread?? The stupid, uncorroborated, baseless accusations in this article? And every time pwoplw tell you that, you don't offer ANYTHING meningful in responce!! THat's why I said that you belong in The Local Zoo.
"The Local Zoo" (a term that I introduced to this forum) is not an implication that you are an animal, no. It's an implication that you are a weired person, unable (apparently) to think logically, and as such you are an intersting item that normal people (who are abundant on this forum, thanks G-d) would be interested to gaze at from time to time.



You know why people hate you as an individual...

Again, you assume too much. If you hate me, it doesn't mean others hate me. In fact, There only a few people on this forum that expressed hate towards me.

And, generally, why is it so easy for you to hate people? I, personally, can't think of anybody I really hate. Even the scum I would kill on the spot without hesitation or regret - I still don't hate them.
You however: I wrote a couple of well deserved jokes that you didn't like - and now you hate me!
Maybe you should go see a psychiatrist about that, eh?

*yawn*...like i said..its just pointless......

[ExtraT]

This is my last reply to animals such as yourself...


It's hard to keep your promises, eh?

And, one more thing - stop overquoting! This thread is twice the size it should\ve been because you are too lazy to quote responisbly!

[StarvingStudent47]

Hey, if you guys are controlling the world and all that - how come you have so much free time?

What I want to know is--if we control the world's banking systems, why the **** am I still driving a used Civic and eating scrambled eggs for dinner?! The World Zionist Conspiracy has NOT been sending me my monthly Jew-check, dammit.

[IDFM203]

There is either two things wrong here.

1) Either companies such as 20/20, the New York Post, etc. are run by lunatics and morons who have no clue to what the hell they are talking about and love making up lies about Jews and love making up conspiracy theories....OR 2) That what they reported did in fact happen (ie. dancing Jews). :roll: wow so you put two possibilities and in your small world it can only be those two possibilities :cantbeli: , I mean the fact that the media all the time reports lies or half truths (and indeed not just limited to Israel) or that some in the media do in fact have a bias against Israel or that simply the Media are reporting allegations, all that doesn’t enter into play but just YOUR two ways :roll:


AS of now YOU made a claim that they were Mossad agents, Prove it…..(I didn’t see any proofs from any Media to that).

YOU made claims they danced, prove it

You made claimes that Israel knew in advance, prove it.

You made claims they knew in advance and didn’t warn the U.S. prove it.


Lastly you institute by those five people that allegedly were spies and they allegedly were dancing so that means Jews were dancing??

I say again, MOST Jews were not doing any such thing at all, UNLIKE what A LOT of your Arab brethren across the Arab world were in fact doing!!!





You did not answer my question! You merely beated around the bush. No I did, I don’t accept at all the premise in which your question was asked for its factually false and as such I answered the way I did…….go read my answer again for its clear that I answered directly as to what you were asking.

But anyways I guess I will elaborate more now…….


Arabs rejected to live in coexistence and you guys did a pre-emptive attack because you guys were most likely to get attacked and so you defended yourselves. First of all I am talking about 1948 when they rejected to live in peaceful co existence and then 7 Arab nations INVADED to kill every Jew, so there was no preemption there.

In that war, most of the Arabs fled at the behest of their Arab brethren telling them to do so and promising they can return after their “short victory” and the rest of them stayed and Israel did as promised and granted them Israeli citizenship.

Now yes in 1967 as the Arabs wanted to try again to invade to kill every Jew and to finnish what they couldn’t do before, indeed then we smartly preempted.


However, that is NOT an excuse to continue taking land and claiming it as Israeli land when in fact it isn't. You just don’t get it :roll: ……in 1967 after we preempted, we only preempted in two fronts and that was the Egyptian and the Syrian front and it was only after Jordan attacked that we responded and as such we got the land in a defensive war.

That land belonged to Jordan, they attacked (and even if they didn’t they were along with the Egyptians and Syrians and Iraqi’s all in the planning to invade) and as such Israel acquired that land in that defensive war.

Now after the Karhtum conference after the war, where the Arabs had their famous three No’s, No Israel, No recognition and NO negotiation, of course Israel held onto that land.

Lastly when you have a hostile population there where then and still now, A LOT want to see the Whole Israel destroyed, it is absurd to give up land to go back to what is almost indefensible borders.

You asked for my view, well there it is.


the Israelis are continuing to occupy and settle in on Paletinian land.

ahh? Palestinian land?? when has it ever been Palestinian land??? can you tell me when did they ever have a nation to constitute them claiming ownership of that land?

(This is besides what I said before this statement of yours)



(You amongst the rest of the people who disagree with me seems to be the only one who can be civil. Thank you. It is the main reason why I addressed your post with seriousness and attempt to present my ideas and arguments.) Interesting in that perhaps I have been a bit civil but I have to confess that I do agree with some of the others here for while you are adapt at masking some of what I call filth in nice word plays, to me its just masking the same garbage that a lot of us here from your type, just you have found a way to be civil about it, but civil or not, it’s the same garbage.

Just being honest with you on how I feel.

In truth I probally shouldn’t engage here for I try to avoid posts when they get THAT outrages as what you posted in the beginning, but I guess I am addicted to debate and well I sometimes cant help myself.


Anyways Shalom :D

[ExtraT]

IDFM203, you are barking up the wrong tree.

Rebel7 is clearly an inmate of The Local Zoo - it's pointless to argue with them. One can only gaze at their cages, and comment on the wonders of nature that created such specimens.

Antyhing else would be a waste of time.

[IDFM203]

ExtraT,

Yeah it might be pointless but read my last paragraph for I address what you say.




In the past, Arabs have been much nicer to Jews than anyone else ever has been. Mecca was i cultural metropol in the days. The reason for recent hate against Jews from the arab side has roots in the Israel/Palestine conflict.
So if you wanna go historical with it, blame the Christians (nowadays, the US) more, cos they've killed loads more Jews.


Shalom, as you say ;) Listen indeed in the PAST christens have killed many more.

And yes I don’t forget that, but I don’t live in those times, I live in today and frankly your argument is weak.

I mean its like when I sometimes point out about the Arab/Muslim world that the UN ranked them the lowest region in the world in terms of productivity and I ask as to what have they done besides find oil, what other then that have they contributed to the modern world or rather what products or inventions in science, medicine, computers, technology, do they make or invent that are marketable products to sell to the rest of the world????? and usually besides getting an answer that amounts to basically NOTHING, I always get is well the Arabs invented algebra back in etc…. well gees every culture has things they can look to in the PAST as to what they achieved, but that is not that relevant to the question or to what is the reality TODAY.

The fact is that these times, Arabs are the ones murdering Jews and its Arabs and Muslims (not all but A LOT) that are the ones that want to kill every Jew.

Shalom to you :D

[Rebel 7]

There is either two things wrong here.

1) Either companies such as 20/20, the New York Post, etc. are run by lunatics and morons who have no clue to what the hell they are talking about and love making up lies about Jews and love making up conspiracy theories....OR 2) That what they reported did in fact happen (ie. dancing Jews). :roll: wow so you put two possibilities and in your small world it can only be those two possibilities :cantbeli: , I mean the fact that the media all the time reports lies or half truths (and indeed not just limited to Israel) or that some in the media do in fact have a bias against Israel or that simply the Media are reporting allegations, all that doesn’t enter into play but just YOUR two ways :roll:


AS of now YOU made a claim that they were Mossad agents, Prove it…..(I didn’t see any proofs from any Media to that).

YOU made claims they danced, prove it

You made claimes that Israel knew in advance, prove it.

You made claims they knew in advance and didn’t warn the U.S. prove it.


Lastly you institute by those five people that allegedly were spies and they allegedly were dancing so that means Jews were dancing??

I say again, MOST Jews were not doing any such thing at all, UNLIKE what A LOT of your Arab brethren across the Arab world were in fact doing!!!





You did not answer my question! You merely beated around the bush. No I did, I don’t accept at all the premise in which your question was asked for its factually false and as such I answered the way I did…….go read my answer again for its clear that I answered directly as to what you were asking.

But anyways I guess I will elaborate more now…….


Arabs rejected to live in coexistence and you guys did a pre-emptive attack because you guys were most likely to get attacked and so you defended yourselves. First of all I am talking about 1948 when they rejected to live in peaceful co existence and then 7 Arab nations INVADED to kill every Jew, so there was no preemption there.

In that war, most of the Arabs fled at the behest of their Arab brethren telling them to do so and promising they can return after their “short victory” and the rest of them stayed and Israel did as promised and granted them Israeli citizenship.

Now yes in 1967 as the Arabs wanted to try again to invade to kill every Jew and to finnish what they couldn’t do before, indeed then we smartly preempted.


However, that is NOT an excuse to continue taking land and claiming it as Israeli land when in fact it isn't. You just don’t get it :roll: ……in 1967 after we preempted, we only preempted in two fronts and that was the Egyptian and the Syrian front and it was only after Jordan attacked that we responded and as such we got the land in a defensive war.

That land belonged to Jordan, they attacked (and even if they didn’t they were along with the Egyptians and Syrians and Iraqi’s all in the planning to invade) and as such Israel acquired that land in that defensive war.

Now after the Karhtum conference after the war, where the Arabs had their famous three No’s, No Israel, No recognition and NO negotiation, of course Israel held onto that land.

Lastly when you have a hostile population there where then and still now, A LOT want to see the Whole Israel destroyed, it is absurd to give up land to go back to what is almost indefensible borders.

You asked for my view, well there it is.


the Israelis are continuing to occupy and settle in on Paletinian land.

ahh? Palestinian land?? when has it ever been Palestinian land??? can you tell me when did they ever have a nation to constitute them claiming ownership of that land?

(This is besides what I said before this statement of yours)



(You amongst the rest of the people who disagree with me seems to be the only one who can be civil. Thank you. It is the main reason why I addressed your post with seriousness and attempt to present my ideas and arguments.) Interesting in that perhaps I have been a bit civil but I have to confess that I do agree with some of the others here for while you are adapt at masking some of what I call filth in nice word plays, to me its just masking the same garbage that a lot of us here from your type, just you have found a way to be civil about it, but civil or not, it’s the same garbage.

Just being honest with you on how I feel.

In truth I probally shouldn’t engage here for I try to avoid posts when they get THAT outrages as what you posted in the beginning, but I guess I am addicted to debate and well I sometimes cant help myself.


Anyways Shalom :D


AS of now YOU made a claim that they were Mossad agents, Prove it…..(I didn’t see any proofs from any Media to that).

YOU made claims they danced, prove it

You made claimes that Israel knew in advance, prove it.

You made claims they knew in advance and didn’t warn the U.S. prove it.


Lastly you institute by those five people that allegedly were spies and they allegedly were dancing so that means Jews were dancing??

I am getting tired of repeating myself. Dude, did my whole post just zoom by your head? I seriously don't have so much time to waste and you ignored my argument and merely repeated the same questions to which I already replied to? Are visual aids the only thing you refer to as evidence?! That is a lame attempt to throw away a claim because it does not contain visual evidence.

"This isn't some joke, this is a serious allegation. Police reports were conducted, names were given and yet amidst all this we are suppose to believe that IT didn't happen because some tourist wasn't there to take a picture of these clowns dancing. Here is a piece from the 20/20 article:

"The driver of the van, Sivan Kurzberg, told the officers, "We are Israeli. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem." The other passengers were his brother Paul Kurzberg, Yaron Shmuel, Oded Ellner and Omer Marmari."

As well: "Steven Gordon, the attorney for the five Israeli detainees,...."

As for asking for photos as your only route to acceptable evidence. That is not only pathetic but proposterious. A killer can also claim that he didn't commit a crime because no photos of him committing the crime exist. If this was some sick joke 20/20 or the New York post or other media sources were playing, they would be out of business for their stupidity and lack of professionalism. Here is the rest of it:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/2020_whitevan_020621.html

A lawyer doesn't go to the victim of his client and say, "Since you don't have any visual evidence, your allegations are lies and false." Instead, the witness' accounts are described and thoroughly questioned until it is found to be stable and valid or unstable and false. Now, the names of the culprits have been given, the name of their lawyer has been given as well as a whole patch of other info that can be investigated and the truth be found. Oh and in case you were wondering about whether the two were Mossad agents:
"Since their arrest, plenty of speculation has swirled about the case, and what the five men were doing that morning. Eventually, The Forward, a respected Jewish newspaper in New York, reported the FBI concluded that two of the men were Israeli intelligence operatives."


You just don’t get it ahh? Palestinian land?? when has it ever been Palestinian land??? can you tell me when did they ever have a nation to constitute them claiming ownership of that land?

Dude, what are you talking about? You don't seem to get it man. Most nations of the world don't recognize Israel...now does mean that if they didn't have the military power (given to them by the US), that it would be right to steal lands belonging to Israel?! Palestinian families I believe do have documents from decades ago that clearly show they are the rightful owners of that land....but those documents are not taken into consideration by the Israeli government....
And, no dude, I don't have to time to travel to Palestine, find a Palestinian family and get a copy of their forms and scan them online.......
There was a news report about this I believe on CBC about this just a few days ago........but I guess since I don't have any pictures, my claims are false right?!


Interesting in that perhaps I have been a bit civil but I have to confess that I do agree with some of the others here for while you are adapt at masking some of what I call filth in nice word plays, to me its just masking the same garbage that a lot of us here from your type, just you have found a way to be civil about it, but civil or not, it’s the same garbage.

If you consider it filth than so be it. I have argued with Talib supporters who to this day want me to prove visually that Mullah Omar was responsible for ordering his men to commit atrocities on Afghans or that bin Laden was responsible for Massoud's assassination. I have argued with the likes of men such as yourself who only confront arguments with, "you have no visual evidence thus your claims are lies." Like I said before, I have given you NOT visual evidence but from the report, we are given names of the culprits, the name of their lawyer, and other pieces of info that can be investigated. Don't hate on me because I refer to a report many cannot counter besides the usual garbage of, "This article doesn't have any pictures of them dancing, thus it all lies."...even when certain other things are given that can be investigated and the truth be found. As well, why the hell would a respected Jewish paper make comments that were lies and that would be negative of Jews? I guess it was being anti-semitic too uh?!

The problem with most who disagreed with me is that they label everything and anything anti-semitic or anti-semitic garbage the moment it goes against their views, criticizes Israel, etc.

This is a strong parallel between the methods you and the others here use to denounce a report to Taliban supporters who label anything that criticizes the Taliban as pro-American propaganda or anti-Taliban propaganda. Most of the claims against the Taliban cannot be proven visually but that doesn't mean that those claims are wrong.

Like I said before, if you think this post of mine is garbage, then so be it...leave it at that.....but you have not been able to prove from the evidence the report has given us (ie. names, lawyer names) that in fact these people did not dance or that they do not exist and it was all a hoax.

Personally, if you are going to repeat yourself like you did in this post...don't waste my time or yours.....this is getting old quick!

[Rebel 7]

(reply was duplicated)

[ExtraT]

MODERATORS!!!!

I would like to direct your attention to Rebel7. He is consistently (and deliberately) polluting this board (and especially this thread) with multiple, overquoted posts.

I think he deserves you Special Attention. :)

[Truthsayer]

MODERATORS!!!!

I would like to direct your attention to ExtraT. He is consistently (and deliberately) polluting this board (and especially this thread) with multiple, flaming posts.

I think he deserves you Special Attention.

[ExtraT]

PEOPLE OF EARTH!!!

I'm Lrrr, ruler of the planet Omicron Persei 8. rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

And Truthsayer is a pathetic moron who can't even come up with an original joke.

[IDFM203]

I am getting tired of repeating myself. Dude, did my whole post just zoom by your head? Lets get a couple of things first, I am not a dude, so go address your posts in a juvenile way to someone else!!

Secondly if you want to get petty with this “zoom by your head” nonsense, then I suggest you look in the mirror first before accusing me of doing what is clear you yourself have been doing all along.


I seriously don't have so much time to waste and you ignored my argument and merely repeated the same questions to which I already replied to? ahh you replied to it? :roll:

I asked clear questions and you STILL can’t answer them except with putting up mere smokescreans.

All you did was make some allegations about five Israelis, now from what I can see the only thing you might have is that perhaps they weren’t looking somber on that day (but without thier explnations to counter what one woemn climes she saw, we dont know what they were laughing or happy about at that time, if indeed they were), but proof that they were Mossad agents, or that even if they were, they knew before, or even if they knew before, they didn’t warn the U.S., you have brought NO evidence to any of that to back up your claims.

You can repeat YOUR claims based on some media allegations over and over again, My point still stands until you bring some evidence to back up those allegations.


You just don’t get it ahh? Palestinian land?? when has it ever been Palestinian land??? can you tell me when did they ever have a nation to constitute them claiming ownership of that land?

Dude, what are you talking about? You don't seem to get it man. Most nations of the world don't recognize Israel... First of all they do, but anyways what others recognize or not has no bearing on what’s right or morally right.

You want to make an argument then do so and make a case on facts and whatnot, but if its simply everyone says one thing and that’s it, then you have no case to make that shows right or wrong or justified or not.



now does mean that if they didn't have the military power (given to them by the US), that it would be right to steal lands belonging to Israel?! first of all it got those lands in DEFENSIVE wars WITHOUT much arms from the U.S.

It did not steal those lands.

As for the U.S. , Go look it up, the U.S. only started after 1967 to its 3 b a year to Israel. Oh and that is only to counter the tiny Jewish states huge numerical disadvantage and the large amounts of SOVIET arms that the Arab got.


Palestinian families I believe do have documents from decades ago that clearly show they are the rightful owners of that land....but those documents are not taken into consideration by the Israeli government....
First of all there are Israelis that have documents also in parts of that land as well as in even parts of Lebanon, yet do any Arabs recognize them? :roll:

Secondly again you just don’t get it, that land was owned by the British and then after they left and the Arabs REJECTED to live in co existence with Israel, 7 Arab nations invaded and then LOST, the new borders were that Jordan found itself the owner of that land.

Then in 1967 when they invaded (and also planned along with Syria and Egypt to invade to kill every jew) Israel defended itself and got that land in a defensive war.

It was Jordan that LOST the land to Israel by acting offensively to attack to wipe out all of Israel.

Now and then, after that defensive war for Israel and the Arabs had their famous three no’s (No Israel, No recognition and no negotiation), the Arab inhabitants then and still now, a lot of them want to destroy the whole Israel and such its foolish to give up that land to what was almost indefensible borders.



If you consider it filth than so be it. I have argued with Talib supporters who to this day :roll: :cantbeli: very lame and weak what you have tried to do in linking me to those murders that you claim you have a problem with.

What ever you claim they do or not has no bearing on the fact that you made claims with no proof or evidence whatsoever to back up the filth and lies that you have instituted by it, and yet like all the other types of such claims made by a lot of people that want to destroy us, of course hardly anyone admits that but like you, uses fancy and civil words to mask what is in reality the same garbage that those anti Semites use.

You say you have argued with the taliban and they are like me, well I too have argued with neo nazis and hamas suppoeters and they are like you in that they make all sorts of cliams with nothing to back it up.

Anyways this insinuation as to who I am by you was absurd and its frankly funny in the way you attempted to paint me as such when its clear that its just more of your SMOKESCREANS to hide the fact that you have nothing to prove what you (or what some others) claim.


As for you being an anti Semite, well I don’t know, and I hardly outright call anyone that for that’s hard to prove on the internet, but to deny that you parrot a lot of what anti Semites say is to be very naïve and well as they say “what talks like a duck and what smells like a duck, must be a duck”

You figure it out ;)


The problem with most who disagreed with me is that they label everything and anything anti-semitic or anti-semitic garbage the moment it goes against their views, criticizes Israel, etc. no, merely criticizing with legitimate criticism is NOT anti Semitism, but you haven’t done that at all and you baseless and outrages claims can legitimately be construed as outright anti Semitism by some

I mean even if those five Jews did dance, to institute that Jews danced as if those five represents Jewish consensus is what some of us are pointing out about you.

Or when you make claims with NO proof whatsoever and those claims are as nefarious as you make them sound, well as I said before, what talks like a duck and smells like one…well you know the rest ;)


don't waste my time or yours.....this is getting old quick! yes indeed, for till you can show how Jews danced on sept 11 as you insisted before (for even IF those five did, that is not what MOST Jews did that day unlike what A LOT of your arab and muslim brethern DID on that day!!!) or that the Mossad knew before and didnt report anything, or that they are Mossad agents, which you have no evidence to back up nor has any of the media shown any evidence to back up any of their allegations that some have made, then indeed stop wasting time here posting over and over again YOUR ridicules claims based on some media allegations.

Shalom :D

[Milkman]

My head hurts from all the arguing. :|

[Rebel 7]

putting up mere smokescreans.

All you did was make some allegations about five Israelis, now from what I can see the only thing you might have is that perhaps they weren’t looking somber on that day (but without thier explnations to counter what one woemn climes she saw, we dont know what they were laughing or happy about at that time, if indeed they were), but proof that they were Mossad agents, or that even if they were, they knew before, or even if they knew before, they didn’t warn the U.S., you have brought NO evidence to any of that to back up your claims.

You can repeat YOUR claims based on some media allegations over and over again, My point still stands until you bring some evidence to back up those allegations.


First, I never made mention that these five Jews represented all of Israel or all Jews nor did I claim that these five guys dancing meant that Israel had foreknowledge of the events. You need to get that into your head and stop building the straw man. The fact of the matter is that such allegations were made and you are right, there isn't "solid" evidence to back this allegation up. But it can be investigated. Just like an allegation against a person who is accused of committing a crime can. Saddam was accused of having WMD and having links to Al Qaida, and the Saddam supporters were claiming that these were lies. Today, this case is being investigated by the US government. This is the part of my post you didn't get and merely replied by saying that I am putting up a smokescreen. Ah, but you fail to realize that today there isn't always solid evidence for everything. It is investigated though. From what I learned in my argument with you is that I should be more careful in accepting an allegation before analyzing it further. But then again, I am often accused of this by almost anyone whose group I post a article whose views it opposes. And yes, I have had Arabs who tell me that I am an pro-Israeli supporter. It is true that some of the articles I posted in this thread (namely the Al Qaida cell plot) may not be as credible as the ABC or New York post one, but still, it can be investigated. As for you claiming that I am anti-semitic, I am far from it, but then again, the neutral person is always said to be a leftist when arguing with the far right, or a far right when arguing with the leftists. Again, people such as yourself claim others are building a smokescreen when in fact your accusations against me or made through the smokescreen you are viewing through. You claim that people who make such posts have intentions of destroying Israel? Well, I highly doubt that even if this allegation turns out to be true, it would hardly destroy Israel or effect it in a significant way. I mean the Pakistani government has been accused of directly supporting the Taliban and Al Qaida, funding them, and leaking nuclear information to anti-US countries and Al Qaida. Some of these accusations have been proven. Yet, they are still a US ally. Like you said and I agree, these five guys don't represent all of Israel or all Jews. But, you seem to contradict yourself and go on saying that such posts have the intentions of destroying Israel. Its like me saying that an article accusing 5 Afghans of dancing and cheering during the events of Sept. 11 has the intentions of destroying Afghanistan even if the criticism is made without "solid" evidence but with serious allegations that can be investigated. Pathetic! Most of my arguments and questions you have been able to answer in regards to the justification of my Israel is taking land, why they kept the lands they took, and so I agree with you on those issues. Now, if I were to go to an Arab with these arguments of yours I'd quickly be labelled a pro-Israeli supporter, although I am neutral and open to both sides of the argument. Yes, I do realize I was a bit quick to jump the gun and assume that these allegations were true, but then again we can accuse most Americans of jumping the gun and believing that Saddam had links to Al Qaida, etc or that people were quick to assume that the ISI was directly invovled with the Taliban and Al Qaida. The latter turned out to be true and is still being investigated while the former is still being investigated. As for me parroting what anti-semites say, and thus making you assume that I am probably an anti-semite myself is a proposterious claim and one that smacks of fallacies (ie. guilt by association and straw man). As for the allegations, I guess we'll have to wait and see what, if any, investigation is able to comfirm.

Oh, and as for your allegations against the Taliban being murderers, you'd be surprised at how foolish Taliban supporters can make you feel if you presented that argument to them, since like me, you mostly base your views on what the media alleges of them. Remember, it was Al Qaida who attacked the US, not the Taliban, the Taliban were the ones oppressing the Afghan population. Anyways, I digress, but wanted to point out the similarity of what you accuse me of doing to what you yourself have done. I mean after all who the hell has the time to investigate every ounce of information the media alleges unless it serves or opposes our interests?!

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Oh, and as for your allegations against the Taliban being murderers, you'd be surprised at how foolish Taliban supporters can make you feel if you presented that argument to them, since like me, you mostly base your views on what the media alleges of them. Remember, it was Al Qaida who attacked the US, not the Taliban, the Taliban were the ones oppressing the Afghan population. Anyways, I digress, but wanted to point out the similarity of what you accuse me of doing to what you yourself have done. I mean after all who the hell has the time to investigate every ounce of information the media alleges unless it serves or opposes our interests?!

Did the Taliban not host Al-Qaida in Afghanistan? Did the Taliban not take Al-Qaida's money in exchange for a safe haven? Did the Taliban not refuse to hand over Al-Qaida after 9-11, citing that they were their "guests" and it would be "un-Islamic" to turn them over? Does this not make them a party to the act & part of the greater "plan"? These are facts, and not in dispute. You can find this information on nearly every major news website, as well as the UN, the US Dept of State etc etc but if you need to be shown, I will post the articles.

[Rebel 7]

Oh, and as for your allegations against the Taliban being murderers, you'd be surprised at how foolish Taliban supporters can make you feel if you presented that argument to them, since like me, you mostly base your views on what the media alleges of them. Remember, it was Al Qaida who attacked the US, not the Taliban, the Taliban were the ones oppressing the Afghan population. Anyways, I digress, but wanted to point out the similarity of what you accuse me of doing to what you yourself have done. I mean after all who the hell has the time to investigate every ounce of information the media alleges unless it serves or opposes our interests?!

Did the Taliban not host Al-Qaida in Afghanistan? Did the Taliban not take Al-Qaida's money in exchange for a safe haven? Did the Taliban not refuse to hand over Al-Qaida after 9-11, citing that they were their "guests" and it would be "un-Islamic" to turn them over? Does this not make them a party to the act & part of the greater "plan"? These are facts, and not in dispute. You can find this information on nearly every major news website, as well as the UN, the US Dept of State etc etc but if you need to be shown, I will post the articles.

Okay this is starting to feel weird...I have to put myself in the shoes of a Talib supporter now:
A Taliban supporter I argued against said to me that the Taliban wanted evidence that showed bin Laden was responsible for the attacks. Remember this was before the video evidence of bin Laden was found in Afghanistan in which he admitted to it. Thus, the Taliban asked for evidence and were not provided with any. The Taliban were attacked and overthrown and then the video evidence was found in which bin Laden admitted to it. However, a Talib supporter would say that this is not good enough. The Taliban were not aware that this video existed and if they had been shown it, they would have mostly like ousted bin Laden out of Afghanistan. Thus, the Taliban were attacked unjustly for providing safe haven to someone whom they were not aware had committed those acts since they were not presented with any proof by those making the allegations (the US government). Remember, while the Taliban were attacked most of the allegations of bin Laden being responsible for Sept. 11 were still being investigated. Facts? You'd be surprised at how many things the media hides from us.

[Rebel 7]

I am not going to mention any names, but there is a Talib supporter amongst us who pm'd me defending the Taliban and I hope he can show himself here and argue for his Talibs instead of me since I oppose everything the Taliban did to my Afghans. Everything that the media alleged about the Taliban wasn't necessarily true but at the same time, the Taliban committed crimes that never made it to the press (of course this was before Sept. 11 when Afghanistan was a forgotten country).

[IDFM203]

First, I never made mention that these five Jews represented all of Israel or all Jews nor did I claim that these five guys dancing meant that Israel had foreknowledge of the events. Oh really??? :roll: well you clearly insinuated as such with your previous statement of “How sad and ironic that the nation who supports a friend, ends up having the friend laugh and celebrate in their face during their worst tragedy in history” or I ain't American, I don't live in the US, but I cannot comprehend what would make a bunch of Israeli agents (symbols of its military) laugh at your face when you suffered the worst tragedy in history” which that and the articles that you brought, which when one brings an article it’s a sign of endorsing whats said there, and they (and you) clearly insinuate that they were Mossad agents and that they knew beforehand and that they were laughing at the U.S. yet you offer no proof to that, and that Israel and the mossad, which represents Israel were laughing at the U.S. when you have no proof to that whosoever.

Besides, I mean even if those five were agents, who the hell said they were laughing at the U.S.??


You need to get that into your head and stop building the straw man. For you to have the gull to say what I am saying as using straw man arguments for you is absurd not to mention hypocritical :roll:

Let me tell you what a straw man argument is.

Its you saying Five Israeli man were caught filming 911, and then go on to say how the Mossad uses deception and uses fake passports, when in reality ALL spy agencies use fake passports and use deception, for spying by the nature of it is deception, but for you to use that as Proof, meaning of course its no proof, but its YOUR straw man argument that implies proof, that they knew beforehand and that Israel is laughing at the U.S. and all the other things you implied with that, is in fact you using nothing but strawman arguments that when probed as I did, obviously amount to nothing.

I ask, what other then catching five Israeli man in a van filming on 911 (thousands of people were doing that as well), do you have proof or any evidence to show that A, they were Mossad agents, B even if they were,they knew before hand, C they knew and didn’t warn and D, they were laughing at the U.S.???

Those aren’t me using strawman arguments, but rather me asking rational and justifiable questions to anyone that makes the baseless accusations and the absurd insinuations (which they are till any evidence is brought forth) that you imply with the way you do it which it was YOU that reveled in the use of nothing more then straw man arguments.

Lastly as for straw man, you comparing me, or even mentioning the Taliban, which has NOTHING to do with what we are discussing, is a CLASSIC straw man tactic.

I could go on with that but if you don’t see how absurd your compressions are then there really isn’t anything more I can do to help you.


Today, this case is being investigated by the US government. Indeed it is and I have NO problem with that.

You see what you so fail to understand is that I don’t even have a problem with the media reporting that there is an investigation to look up these allegations on those five man, my problem is on how YOU took those media allegations and investigations and painted a overall picture without any proof or evidence whatsoever not to mention even IF some were true, meaning yes those were two Israeli agents in the U.S., it in no way proves that Israelis were laughing or that we knew beforehand and didn’t warn as you so clearly insinuated.


As for you claiming that I am anti-semitic, I didn’t outright claim you were, simply you parrot a lot of what anti Semites do and well what talks like a duck…etc..meaning I leave it up to anyone to decide for themselves, I try not to outright call people that for its hard to prove on the internet, but I can defiantly call when statements sound like that and you taking allegations and then attaching your rhetoric and snide comments which was clear as to the insinuation of not just those five but of Jews and of Israel can be construed as I mentioned before.


Like you said and I agree, these five guys don't represent all of Israel or all Jews. well you amend it now for go back and read your first few posts for its clear that YOU did use a big brush in your insinuations.

On and hold up on those five Jews for as of now that is all they are is just five Jews filming like all the thousands of other nationalities that day that were as well filming that terrible event that were committed by those 19 Muslim man


Lastly, I will give you that I was slightly impressed by your seeming acceptance of my answers on your questions on the Israel/Arab, Palestinian conflict whereas you now somewhat understand the realties of what really happened. I cant tell if you genuinely accept it or its just as a tactic for this debate here but whatever the case I had fun explaining it to you ;) :D

Shalom :D

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Okay this is starting to feel weird...I have to put myself in the shoes of a Talib supporter now:
A Taliban supporter I argued against said to me that the Taliban wanted evidence that showed bin Laden was responsible for the attacks. Remember this was before the video evidence of bin Laden was found in Afghanistan in which he admitted to it. Thus, the Taliban asked for evidence and were not provided with any. The Taliban were attacked and overthrown and then the video evidence was found in which bin Laden admitted to it. However, a Talib supporter would say that this is not good enough. The Taliban were not aware that this video existed and if they had been shown it, they would have mostly like ousted bin Laden out of Afghanistan. Thus, the Taliban were attacked unjustly for providing safe haven to someone whom they were not aware had committed those acts since they were not presented with any proof by those making the allegations (the US government). Remember, while the Taliban were attacked most of the allegations of bin Laden being responsible for Sept. 11 were still being investigated. Facts? You'd be surprised at how many things the media hides from us.

Wow, you'd make a wonderful judge. By that logic, the only "evidence" is a video confession? You'd have to get a suspect to actually confess for you to consider their guilt? If that was the standard, there would never be a conviction.

There were mountains of evidence, scores of people behind bars, bank records, phone and credit card records, Bin Laden's own record of terrorist action, his statements that he intended to do this - not to mention intelligence all pointing to Bin Laden. Bin Laden was not just some rich tourist living there. He'd just been kicked out of the Sudan for being "too hot". He was a known terrorist, and had been in hiding for years. This was not an innocent man being persecuted. Nobody but the Taliban had any doubts. And what do you know...Bin Laden DID do it!

But as they say, there are none so blind as those who will not see.

The Taliban knew full well that Bin Laden did it. The fact is that the Taliban were dependent upon him for support...they were effectively his employees. Of course they couldn't give him up...he was the guy signing the paychecks.

The only unusual thing here was that the Taliban were not acting like grownups - not behaving or performing at the level expected of a sitting government. They acted like kids with a hand caught in the cookie jar. The mom walks in, sees little Tali with his hand in the jar - asks "what are you doing little Tali..stealing cookies?". Little Taliban says "no...it wasn't me." Such denials are beneath the dignity of most adults. In thier infantile world, they believed that all they had to do was lie. Deny everything. Muddy the water..and the problem would go away.

Mullah Omar actually said something along the lines of - "Bin Laden couldn't have done it...there are no flight training schools in Afghanistan". Oh well, we should have just taken him at his word...after all he couldn't have been lying, could he?

[born_to_kill]

I learned a long time ago not to every have a debate with a propoganda brainwashed arab retard who thinks they are smart.

.. Dont even waste your time bringing up good points , the only way for them to shut hte **** up is if you beat the **** out of them.

[W(M)D]

http://ww1.sundayherald.com/37707

I guess the Sunday herald is "anti-semitic"as well?

It may or may not be anti-Semitic, but one thing is for sure - YOU ARE!

[786mine]

American leader Lyndon LaRouche, a Democratic Presidential pre-candidate in 2004, commented that these revelations, if confirmed, could be "of strategic importance" in stopping the American, British and Israeli warhawks pushing for a Middle East war, beginning with an invasion of Iraq. A war would justify the Sharon government's plan to annihilate the very idea of a Palestinian state.

Lyndon LaRouche bwahahaha ha ha hahaha ha rofl

OMG that nut job has been around forever - I met him in NH in 1988. He was a wacko then, and he's a wacko now.

Jeezus, you'll have to come up with something better than this silly garbage. Go back to chasing black helicopters.

Your post has proved 3 things:

1) You like to laugh a lot.

2) You think that LaRoche is crazy.

3) You can't spell Jesus.

With that said, your post hasn't proved that what he claims are lies or incorrect.
Bro, I would love to hear your arguments against his. If you can crush his arguments and make him look stupid the intelligent way (by showing the flaws in his arguments), then I will not accept his arguments as valid.
Simple as that!

Will someone please do us ALL a favor and shut this [Rebel 7] little bitch up. Has no points and is posting factless sh*t.

[chauncy republicans]

Oh, and what point are you trying to make, what facts did you post?