13eme Dragons Parachutistes

[parabellum]

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[mugs69]

This is weird I stumbled across an article on this regiment today whilst trying to find a good definition of Dragoon. Is this a special forces regiment?

[Dominique]

This is weird I stumbled across an article on this regiment today whilst trying to find a good definition of Dragoon. Is this a special forces regiment?

Yes, it's the French Army's LRRP unit.

[mugs69]

I think these 2 photos have been posted before.

http://www.liendragonpara.net/photos/phototh%e8que%20site/stmichel2004/701.jpg
http://www.liendragonpara.net/photos/phototh%e8que%20site/stmichel2004/710.jpg

But here comes the inevitable question :-D...............what's with the desert camo? is it new or is it only used by this regiment? Because it looks alot like the Danish desert camo.

[Kingswat]

nice pics.

[pascalywood]

didnt know the French SF were so well geared. Go la France!

[ZoneOne]

Great pictures

Thx for sharing

Very cool Arctic camo

[teutateswolf-n]

In European armies, there are three categories of cavalry: heavy, line, and light.
The "Dragoons" are a type of line cavalry. At the origins there were a kind of mounted infantry with a special rifle named a "dragon" or "dragoon", and their name came from that. Later, they simply became the most basic type of line cavalry.
The 13rd Dragoons of the French Army was founded under the Ancient Regime, and its traditional name is "Dragons de Monsieur" (Dragoons of Monsieur), "Monsieur" being the way to call the oldest younger brother of the king.
That regiment became paratroopers and specialized in LRRP missions.


This is weird I stumbled across an article on this regiment today whilst trying to find a good definition of Dragoon. Is this a special forces regiment?

[Amandil]

But here comes the inevitable question :-D...............what's with the desert camo? is it new or is it only used by this regiment? Because it looks alot like the Danish desert camo.Ditto this regarding the guys in the ghillie suits, looks like they're wearing regular German flecktarn:

http://www.liendragonpara.net/photos/phototh%e8que%20site/stmichel2004/901.jpg

[teutateswolf-n]

I don't know what are exactly the dress regulations into the French army, but I can tell you that in Belgium, at the time of the GVP/ESR, the SOF had some freedom for their dress on the field. It's a usual practice in many elite and unconventional SOF units. When I joined the Belgian army in the early 90's even "ordinary" para-commandos were a little bit free for the dressing. There was a mixing of Belgian jigsaw (old pattern that was less flashing and very good, for example the M90 smock jacket), British DPM, and a few US woodland and German flecktarn. I also saw some persons with Nordic armies' cap. It was not unusual to see one of us with a jigsaw dress, a US woodland goretex parka, and a DPM chestwebbing. One of the reasons was that elite units, to improve their equipment, had some freedom to buy themselve or individually some gears. For example, at that time, there were no regular Belgian goretex or rain dress. Anyway, in the early and mid-90's, the armies that had their own goretex were rare. That kind of equipments were just starting to spread, and we were still basically equiped like our fathers in the early 70's.
It was not always easy and comfortable, and it was not fun to use our own money, but I liked that mentality that gave some kind of rebel spirit going very well with elite units like paratroopers and SOF... that irregular or guerilla aspect.
Probably that the nowadays 13e RDP of the French army has some similar freedom for its equipment and that the men choose what they think to fit the best to their missions. Yes, it's a flecktarn, but I'm not fully sure that it's a German dress. Maybe it's using flecktarn cloth, but locally cuts in the style of the RDP guerilla dress.


Ditto this regarding the guys in the ghillie suits, looks like they're wearing regular German flecktarn:

http://www.liendragonpara.net/photos/phototh%e8que%20site/stmichel2004/901.jpg

[marek]

Awesome great pictures, now is hard to me to sit out, when i
go home from work and finally can download them.

[juju]

The 13éme RDP being a unit within the COS (read SOCOM) they have more freedom regading the gear they are allowed to use.
I had a friend in this unit a couple of years ago, and lots of men were using US TLBVs, Israelis TLBVs etc...

[Müller]

Why the HELL are those guys rocking the NODs on in daylight?

[Dominique]

Why the HELL are those guys rocking the NODs on in daylight?

Because the photos are staged.

[Dave76]

Yeah, nice pics. But they've been posted before and are actually from 2004:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=79696&highlight=french+special+forces

[Mirror]

Impressive! Thanks for sharing!

[Fact62]

Lot of great pictures :

http://www.liendragonpara.net/galerieMSP.html

[zulu261]

German Flecktarn and Danish desert, because in the German desert Flecktarn, theres less green as I think. Great pics.

[Müller]

Because the photos are staged.

Well, badly staged then IMO, it just looks dumb... :/

[Victis Honor]

Well, badly staged then IMO, it just looks dumb... :/

its to show off the gear..... an dloosk fien by me..

[AROUETLJ]

its to show off the gear..... an dloosk fien by me..

They had an Open Day. Of course the whole thing is done to show off the equipment, especially to non-specialists la S.A.I. Alix Napoléon, marraine du régiment, but what do you know...

[enfant_terrible]

That winter camo, is brilliant. You just wouldn't see them if you were more than 10 feet away and they were stationary. IMHO

Unless you had thermal gear, then you might see their eyes...p-)

[Amandil]

I don't know what are exactly the dress regulations into the French army, but I can tell you that in Belgium, at the time of the GVP/ESR, the SOF had some freedom for their dress on the field. It's a usual practice in many elite and unconventional SOF units. When I joined the Belgian army in the early 90's even "ordinary" para-commandos were a little bit free for the dressing. There was a mixing of Belgian jigsaw (old pattern that was less flashing and very good, for example the M90 smock jacket), British DPM, and a few US woodland and German flecktarn. I also saw some persons with Nordic armies' cap. It was not unusual to see one of us with a jigsaw dress, a US woodland goretex parka, and a DPM chestwebbing. One of the reasons was that elite units, to improve their equipment, had some freedom to buy themselve or individually some gears. For example, at that time, there were no regular Belgian goretex or rain dress. Anyway, in the early and mid-90's, the armies that had their own goretex were rare. That kind of equipments were just starting to spread, and we were still basically equiped like our fathers in the early 70's.
It was not always easy and comfortable, and it was not fun to use our own money, but I liked that mentality that gave some kind of rebel spirit going very well with elite units like paratroopers and SOF... that irregular or guerilla aspect.
Probably that the nowadays 13e RDP of the French army has some similar freedom for its equipment and that the men choose what they think to fit the best to their missions. Yes, it's a flecktarn, but I'm not fully sure that it's a German dress. Maybe it's using flecktarn cloth, but locally cuts in the style of the RDP guerilla dress.Ah, thanks for the explanation. I like learning new things. ;) Bedankt!
German Flecktarn and Danish desert, because in the German desert Flecktarn, theres less green as I think. Great pics.You are right, the pattern these French soldiers are wearing does have more green than the German pattern. However, Danish desert doesn't have that much green either. Rather, it has gobs of brown, and it's a very reddish brown. Plus the pattern is more densely packed with spots in general:

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/4439/isaf3chsigervelkommenwl7.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/fisso/Afghanistan/Musa-Qala-2318.jpg

The green in the arid pattern those guys were wearing is quite light, and it seems to be in distributed in roughly the same density as the brown in German wuestentarn. The green in German wuestentarn, meanwhile, is much darker, and seems to be distributed in about the same density as the brown in this French pattern. My guess is that these French soldiers are wearing a whole other variant of the flecktarn-type pattern.

German desert:

http://img93.exs.cx/img93/7145/12fi.jpg
http://img82.exs.cx/img82/1796/36zo.jpg

Dragons Parachutistes:

http://www.liendragonpara.net/photos/phototh%e8que%20site/stmichel2004/701.jpg
http://www.liendragonpara.net/photos/phototh%e8que%20site/stmichel2004/710.jpg

[Canuck Farrier]

Awesome photos thanks,anymore???p-)

[Dominique]

Well, badly staged then IMO, it just looks dumb... :/

Most staged photos ops do.

[AROUETLJ]

re. The desert camp, it's an experimental version of the new French desert camo. The other experimental pattern is the woodland version which you've all seen in countless version of FELIN-kitted posers on teh intarwebs. Since 13e RDP are radass high-speed mofowarriorscholars, they get to test some shiny new kit.

[Sharp]

re. The desert camp, it's an experimental version of the new French desert camo. The other experimental pattern is the woodland version which you've all seen in countless version of FELIN-kitted posers on teh intarwebs. Since 13e RDP are radass high-speed mofowarriorscholars, they get to test some shiny new kit.

Is it supposed to replace the nice Daguet camo ?

[AROUETLJ]

I don't know.

[Amandil]

...The other experimental pattern is the woodland version which you've all seen in countless version of FELIN-kitted posers on teh intarwebs....Really, cuz I gotta say...

...this camo...

http://www.liendragonpara.net/photos/phototh%e8que%20site/stmichel2004/901.jpg

...don't look like it's the same stuff as this camo:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8612&d=1150677386

The Felin spots look considerably larger, but in a tighter distribution, than the flecktarn-styled pattern (for starters).

For the time being, I'm going to go with what teutateswolf-n said above, namely that these guys can use whatever camo they feel like, and in this case, it's regular German flecktarn.

[teutateswolf-n]

Well, there is no doubt that it's a flecktarn camo, then I conclude that probably (like it happens sometimes for that kind of particular units) on the field they have some freedom for their dress, even if it doesn't looks regular. But, now, I cannot tell you what is exactly the regulation within the French army. Maybe some French military in this forum could help to give an exact explanation.

By the way, I think that this experimental FELIN camo islooking very nice, and moreover it's not blindly following the "digital" fashion of the moment.
However, it's not completely a new concept of camo, and I would put it into the "duck hunter camo" category. What do you think?

[Amandil]

Well, there is no doubt that it's a flecktarn camo, then I conclude that probably (like it happens sometimes for that kind of particular units) on the field they have some freedom for their dress, even if it doesn't looks regular. But, now, I cannot tell you what is exactly the regulation within the French army. Maybe some French military in this forum could help to give an exact explanation.Sounds good to me, I don't have a clue! I'd wager that you're right.
By the way, I think that this experimental FELIN camo islooking very nice, and moreover it's not blindly following the "digital" fashion of the moment.
However, it's not completely a new concept of camo, and I would put it into the "duck hunter camo" category. What do you think?I dunno, it looks so dark overall that I guess it would look like a black blob pretty quick at any distance outside a forest.

[AROUETLJ]

Really, cuz I gotta say...

...this camo...



...don't look like it's the same stuff as this camo:



The Felin spots look considerably larger, but in a tighter distribution, than the flecktarn-styled pattern (for starters).

For the time being, I'm going to go with what teutateswolf-n said above, namely that these guys can use whatever camo they feel like, and in this case, it's regular German flecktarn.

You misunderstood me. Of course that's flecktarn. I meant that there are two new experimental patterns being developed: "woodland FELIN", which is not seen in the 13e RDP photos, and "desert FELIN", of which I haven't heard anything else, except for the fact that SAGEM was not provided with the pattern during FELIN development. At least that's the story as I heard it on the bistro grapevine, on my fifth "16", while shooting the **** at "La Terrasse". Hey at least I'm not an armchair warrior. I have my drinks at the bar.

[Mathias85]

nice pics......

[Musashi]

What's this device? Something like remote sniper?
http://www.liendragonpara.net/photos/phototh%e8que%20site/stmichel2004/503.jpg

What's the standard LMG used in a French infantry/parachute squad?

Do you have an up-to-date OoB of the French army?

Nice arctic camo, btw.

[bigvig]

Great pics.

[Magister]

The standard LMG used in by French infantry and paratroopers is the 5.56x45mm FN Minimi Para, which replaced most of the 7.62x51mm AAT-NF1.

The AAT-NF1 is still in use with all branches of the French armed forces. But nowadays it is usually mounted on tripods and vehicles and no longer used from its bipod.

[Musashi]

The standard LMG used in by French infantry and paratroopers is the 5.56x45mm FN Minimi Para, which replaced most of the 7.62x51mm AAT-NF1.

The AAT-NF1 is still in use with all branches of the French armed forces. But nowadays it is usually mounted on tripods and vehicles and no longer used from its bipod.
Thank you.
So there are 2 Minimis for an infantry/para squad?

[Magister]

Thank you.
So there are 2 Minimis for an infantry/para squad?

Yes indeed. At least that's the case with the infantry, the single AAT-NF1 has been replaced by two Minimi Paras. I guess thats also the case with para squads.

Replacing a single, heavy 7.62x51mm mg with two 5.56x45mm lmg's is very common nowadays, in the Dutch army the MAG has also been replaced with two Minimi Para's and the Japanese Type 62 has been replaced by two full size Minimi's.

By the way, you can see the Minimi Para with optics mounted at the passenger seat of the 4x4 VLRA on page 1.

[AROUETLJ]

What's this device? Something like remote sniper?

Do you have an up-to-date OoB of the French army?




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_of_the_French_Army#Structure_of_the_French_Army

This orbat is pretty accurate, except that since 1st July 2005, a rapid reaction corps-level command (RRC-FR Rapid Reaction Corps France) exists, with the glorious 6e RCS re-created to serve as the support unit. And 6e RHC will be disbanded in June 2007. COS is no longer staioned in Taverny but in Villacoublay. I think that just about covers it.

[Musashi]

Thank you Magister an AROUETLJ for your anwers.
How about the question with the photo? What is it?

http://www.liendragonpara.net/photos/phototh%e8que%20site/stmichel2004/503.jpg

[Magister]

I don't know what it is.... But I can guess. It looks like a tripod mounted observation device. The 13e RDP is a (long range) reconnaissance unit, so that would make sence. It features a high powered camera and most likely features some night vision optics as well. The operator can remote control it up to 10 meters or so, judging from the length of the cables. Don't know what the controller next to the tv-screen is for.. The device is most likely carried in the camouflaged box next to the control station.

I've heard of devices like this which can calculate the exact position of what the operator looks at by calculating its own position via gps, calculating the azimuth and using a laser range finder to calculate the range of what's on screen. These coordinates can be used to call in mortar or artillery fire. Don't know if it can actually 'lase' a target for laser guided bombs..

Its just an educated guess... I might be wrong.

[Martel]

Maybe a laser designator ?

[Amandil]

You misunderstood me. Of course that's flecktarn. I meant that there are two new experimental patterns being developed: "woodland FELIN", which is not seen in the 13e RDP photos, and "desert FELIN", of which I haven't heard anything else, except for the fact that SAGEM was not provided with the pattern during FELIN development. At least that's the story as I heard it on the bistro grapevine, on my fifth "16", while shooting the **** at "La Terrasse". Hey at least I'm not an armchair warrior. I have my drinks at the bar.You're right, I did misunderstand you. Thanks for the clarification. ;)