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Wolfe117
04-19-2007, 01:00 AM
Be warned this is a long read and of course is highly fictional and theoretical. If anyone can read this thing and respond intelligently you win a taco. But in all honesty I found the paper to be of some merit and thought provoking. This isn't just the plain fear mongering we all hear about.


Terrorism Raymond S. Kraft
October 24, 2006

December 7, 2008, began inauspiciously.

At 0753 at Pearl Harbor in Hawaii, the attack that had triggered America's entry into World War II, sixty-seven years before, was ceremoniously commemorated, an honor guard, taps, a 21-gun salute, the bugle's notes and the rifles' crack drifting across the bay to the USS Arizona memorial, where Admiral Arthur Peterson, USN Ret., laid a wreath in memory of the sailors sleeping below, one of whom was his own grandfather.

On the West coast it was 1053, and in Washington D.C. it was one fifty-three in the afternoon, 1353 military time.

In 2006 America, tired of War in Iraq, had elected Democrats to modest majorities in both houses of Congress. Representative Nancy Pelosi became Speaker of the House, third in line for the presidency. In the spring of 2007, on a narrow, party-line vote, Congress, led by Senators John Kerry and Ted Kennedy and Barbara Boxer refused to authorize spending to continue the war in Iraq, and set September 30, 2007, as the deadline for complete withdrawal of American troops.

President Bush spoke to the country, to the American forces in Iraq, to those who had been there, and to the Iraqi people, to apologize for the short-sightedness and irresponsibility of the American congress and the tragedy he believed would follow after leaving task of nurturing a representative and stable government in Iraq half done, his voice choked, tears running down his stoic face, a betrayal of emotion for which he was resoundingly criticized and denounced in much of America's media.

The level of violence across Iraq immediately subsided, as the Americans began preparations to redeploy back to the States. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad praised the new Congress for its clear vision and sound judgment. America's Democrats rejoiced and congratulated themselves for bringing peace with honor and ending the illegal war based on lies that George Bush had begun only to enrich his friends in the military-industrial complex, and promised to retake the Presidency in 2008.

"The failure of many Americans, including many of the leading Democrats in Congress, and some Republicans, to fully appreciate the persistent, long-term threat posed to America's liberties and survival, and to the future of Liberal Democracies everywhere, by an Islamic Resistance Movement that envisions a world dominated and defined by an Islamic Caliphate of religious totalitarianism, and which will fight any war, make any sacrifice, suffer any hardship, and pay any price to achieve it, may prove to be the kind of blunder upon which the fate of America turns, and falls."

At 1000 on September 30, 2007, precisely on schedule, the last C-5A Galaxy carrying the last company of American combat troops in Iraq had roared down the Baghdad runway and lifted into the air. Only a few hundred American technical and military advisers and political liaisons remained in-country.

The Galaxy's wheels had scarcely retracted when Iraq erupted in the real civil war many had feared and foreseen, and which many others had predicted would not happen if only the American imperialists left Iraq. Sunni militias, Shia militias, and Al Qaeda militias ravaged and savaged the country, killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqis known or suspected to have collaborated with the Americans, killing Shias for being Shias, Sunnis for being Sunnis, Americans for being Americans, and anyone else who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

By noon, not one of the American advisers and liaisons left behind remained alive. Many had been beheaded as they screamed. Most of their bodies were dumped in the river and never seen again. In the next thirty days more than a million Iraqis died. The General Assembly of the United Nations voted to condemn the violence, and recessed for lunch and martinis. In America, there was no political will to redeploy back to Iraq. And after a few months of rabid bloodletting, the situation in Iraq calmed to a tense simmer of sporadic violence and political jockeying, punctuated by the occasional assassination, while several million refugees fled the country. Only Kurdistan, in the north, which had thrown up a line of its Peshmurga fighters to keep the southern violence away, remained stable and at relative peace.

In the spring of 2008 America began its quadrennial circus of a national election, and in November elected a Democrat, the Junior Senator from New York, Hillary Rodham Clinton, as it next president, to the surprise of few. Her running mate, to the surprise of many, was San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom, whose intelligence, charisma, and reputation as an indefatigable campaigner for gay marriage and the homeless of San Francisco helped solidify Clinton's support among liberal Democrats who only grudgingly forgave her for not openly opposing the Iraq war sooner, and the Clinton-Newsom ticket went to the top with a narrow 50.2% lead over Republican John McCain's 49.8% of the popular vote, despite, or perhaps because of, Clinton's and Newsom's lack of foreign policy and military experience.

America, or a slim voting majority of it, felt it had had all the war it ever wanted to see, and Hillary had led her party to a glorious (if narrow) victory with the unambiguous slogan: "Clinton & Newsom: No More War." Crowds at every whistle stop had cheered and chanted, No more war! No more war! No more war! At victory parties George Bush, **** Cheney, Karl Rove, Donald Rumsfeld and Condoleezza Rice were hung and sometimes burned in effigy, enthusiastic crowds chanted "No more war!" many times more, and local bands cranked up the theme from the first Clinton electoral victory, "Don't stop thinking about tomorrow...yesterday's gone, yesterday's gone...," and indeed, it was.

President Bush had been a very lame duck since the 2006 election, and with a Democratic Congress could do little but veto most of the bills it sent him. The Democrats couldn't
override his vetoes, so for nearly two years almost nothing important had been accomplished by anyone on the Hill or in the White House. After the 2008 election it was transition time, flocks and herds of thoroughly demoralized Republican staff began leaving Washington in search of greener pastures, Congress adjourned for the Holidays, Democrats came house hunting, and Clinton and Newsom began the briefings they would get from a fully cooperative Bush administration on the state of the nation and the state of the world they would inherit and have to cope with for the next four years, or eight, and in those last weeks of November both Hillary and Gavin seemed to age rather quickly. The exhilaration of the campaign was over, and the weight of a tumultuous world began to settle on their shoulders.

Back in early October, 2006, North Korean President (for life) Kim Jong Il had announced the detonation of a nuclear bomb deep in a tunnel in the stony mountains of North Korea. The seismic signature had been small, and American intelligence at first doubted whether it had been a nuclear explosion at all. Traces of radioactive emissions were detected a few days later, and the intelligence estimate revised to conclude that it had been a failed test that produced perhaps only 10% or less of the expected yield, only 0.5 to 1.5 kilotons, not the 20 kilotons, at least, that Western intelligence had anticipated.

Kim Jong Il gloated. The deception had worked. The Americans were thinking in terms of long range intercontinental ballistic missiles with huge warheads that they could shoot out of the sky with their sophisticated billion-dollar anti-missile defense systems. He was thinking in terms of small warheads carried by small, medium range cruise missiles that could be launched from many places, and infiltrated close enough to slip in under the radar and hit America's coastal cities.

On the evening of December 6, 2008, a junior analyst in the National Security Agency was going over routine satellite photo production of ship movements in the Atlantic and Pacific within a thousand miles of the US coasts. Late in the shift he thought he saw something through a haze of fatigue and caffeine, and called a supervisor over to talk.

"Look," he said, photos up on several computer screens, more printed out and spread across his desk, "See? These boats, not big ships, fishing boats, yachts, they've been moving in along shipping lanes for several days, across from the South Pacific toward the West coast, up from the South Atlantic toward the east. Nothing very unusual, they're all small and slow, and scattered up and down the oceans, it seems, but if you look at the times and courses..." and he pulled out a chart he had plotted, "They're approaching so they will all arrive at about the same time, or all be about the same distance off the coast at about the same time...," he trailed off.

The supervisor looked a bit quizzical. "Coincidence? Probably. You need more sleep. Too much fun in the night, eh? Let me know if you see something we can do something with." And walked away.

At 0723 Hawaii time on the 67th Anniversary of the Pearl Harbor attack three old fishing trawlers, about 100 miles apart, and each about 300 miles off the east coast, launched six small cruise missiles from launch tubes that could be dismantled and stored in the holds under ice, or fish, and set up in less than an hour. The missiles were launched at precisely one minute intervals. As soon as each boat had launched its pair, the skeleton crew began to abandon ship into a fast rubber inflatable. The captain was last off, and just before going overboard started the timer on the scuttling charges. Fifteen minutes later and ten miles away, each crew was going up the nets into a small freighter or tanker of Moroccan or Liberian registry, where each man was issued new identification as ship's crew. The rubber inflatables were shot and sunk, and just about then charges in the bilges of each of the three trawlers blew the hulls out, and they sank with no one on board and no distress signals in less than two minutes.

The missiles had been built in a joint operation by North Korea and Iran, and tested in Iran, so they would not have to overfly any other country. The small nuclear warheads had only been tested deep underground. The GPS guidance and detonating systems had worked perfectly, after a few corrections. They flew fifty feet above sea level, and 500 feet above ground level on the last leg of the trip, using computers and terrain data modified from open market technology and flight directors, autopilots, adapted from commercial aviation units. They would adjust speed to arrive on target at specific times and altitudes, and detonate upon reaching the programmed GPS coordinates. They were not as adaptable and intelligent as American cruise missiles, but they did not need to be. Not for this mission.

They were small, less than twenty feet long, and only 18 inches in diameter, powered by small, quiet, fuel-efficient, high-bypass turbofans, and painted in a mottled light blue and light gray ghost camouflage. Cruising at 600 knots, just below the speed of sound, they were nearly impossible to see or hear. They came in under the radar until they reached the coast. After that they were lost in the ground clutter. Nobody saw it coming.

At precisely 0753, Hawaii time, 1353 in the District of Columbia, sixty-seven years to the minute after the Pearl Harbor attack began, the first of six missiles to hit the Washington area exploded in a huge white burst of nuclear fire just 500 feet above the White House, which disappeared in a mist of powdered plaster and stone, concrete and steel. President Bush and President-Elect Clinton had been meeting with Condoleezza Rice and Mrs. Clinton's national security adviser, reviewing the latest National Security Estimate, when they instantaneously turned into a plasma of the atomic elements that had once been human beings. No trace remained.

Alarms immediately began going off all over Washington, and precisely one minute later the second missile exploded just as it struck the Capital dome, instantly turning thousands of tons of granite that had one moment before been the nation's center of government into thousands of tons of granite shrapnel that shredded several square miles of Washington like a leviathan Claymore mine. At precisely one minute intervals, four more 3 kiloton nuclear weapons exploded at an altitude of 500 feet AGL above the Pentagon, the CIA headquarters, the NSA headquarters, the FBI headquarters, all of which were fully staffed in the middle of the day. In five minutes, the government of the United States of America was decapitated, and a quarter million of the people who made the place run were dead, or dying, or had simply disappeared.

Also at 1353 Eastern time, a missile had blown off just above the New York Stock Exchange, in New York City, and thousands of years of collective financial knowledge and experience evaporated in the nuclear flame. In one minute intervals, others had hit the financial centers of Boston and Baltimore, and the Naval base at Norfolk, Virginia.

Simultaneously, within the same 10-minute window of hell, nuclear tipped cruise missiles devastated the largest intermodel shipping facility on the West coast at San Pedro harbor, exploded just above the Library Tower in central Los Angeles, and short circuited the computer technology ghetto of Silicon Valley in Santa Clara County, big time. One exploded ten feet away from the top of the Bank of America Building in San Francisco and set much of the east slope of the city ablaze. Another giant fireball flared among the phalanx of office towers along the Capitol Mall in Sacramento, instantly obliterating Arnold Schwarzenegger and the state government of California, the largest state economy in the US, the seventh largest economy in the world. Two ripped open the heart of Portland, Oregon, one shattered the financial district of Seattle, and the last one turned the Microsoft campus into a pillar of fire and smoke, wiping from the face of history, in a second, the IT giant that had revolutionized global communications.

It was 0803, Hawaii time. Ten minutes.

Three million Americans dead. And not a trace of the assault fleet remained on the surface of any ocean.

Vice-President Elect Gavin Newsom was in his bedroom at home in Pacific Heights, his window overlooking the Golden Gate and the Marin bluffs. He thought he heard an oddly loud crack of thunder and saw a flash reflected on the hills across the inlet, but it was a clear day and nothing else seemed out of place. He continued packing for the return trip to Washington, his second since the election, to continue his transition briefings and begin organizing his staff. His nomination as Hillary's running mate had come as a huge surprise, and he was elated.

Someone rapped on the door, loudly, twice, and without waiting for a reply the senior Secret Service officer on his detail opened it and stepped quickly in. "Come with me, now," he said. Gavin was startled. "I need to finish packing," he replied.

"No time, sir. Something has happened. Very big. I fear. No details yet. We have to get you out of here, NOW! RIGHT NOW! GO! GO! GO!" He grabbed Newsom's arm, swung him around, and pushed him out the door, where two other Secret Service agents flanked him down the stairs and out to a running black Suburban waiting in the garage. They pushed him into the back seat, jumped in, and the driver gunned the engine, out the drive, down the street, tires squealing. Nobody spoke until they were headed over the Bridge, northbound at seventy-five miles an hour, weaving through the traffic which wasn't yet the gridlock it would soon become.

"What the hell's going on?" he finally demanded.

"Okay. This is what I know," the officer said. "The US has apparently sustained multiple nuclear attacks in the last fifteen minutes, including Washington D.C. and San Francisco. Financial district. We're not sure how many, at least ten, maybe twenty. Lots of dead. Got the White House, the Capital, the Pentagon. Our job is to get you on an airplane at the nearest functioning airport, that'll be Novato, and get you to a safe place. Prestissimo."

"Where?" Newsom asked. Things were moving way too fast now.

"Don't know yet. We'll get orders."

The Air Force Learjet had been airborne for two minutes when a cell phone buzzed, and the Secret Service captain answered it and handed it off to the Vice President Elect. "It's Mr. Cheney, sir," he said.

"Gavin?" **** Cheney asked. "Yes, sir," Newsom replied, subdued, for the events of the last hour had sobered up his elated mood considerably.

"Okay, Gavin. I don't know what you know, so I'll tell you what I can. There have been approximately 20 nuclear strikes on government and financial targets in the US, about an hour ago. No real damage estimate yet, except that it's awful. A hundred times 9/11, maybe a thousand times. I happened to be at the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, and have moved into Cheyenne Mountain to set up a temporary HQ, until we get things sorted out. As you know Cheyenne was vacated by NORAD a few years ago, so we have plenty of space. You will be flown here, nonstop."

"I know you haven't a lot of national and international experience." Cheney had thought of saying that Newsom had none, but Newsom would be too painfully aware of that. He didn't need reminding. "The President is missing and presumed dead. So is Mrs. Clinton. So you may become the next president, in about six weeks. I don't know. he Constitution says the Vice President succeeds a president who is dead or disabled, but it doesn't say what happens if the President Elect dies before being inaugurated. I suppose the Court will have to answer that, if we can cobble one together by then. In the meantime, I will assume you will be inaugurated. You'll have a steep learning curve, a real steep curve. All presidents do, under the best of circumstances, and these are not the best of circumstances."

The next day a hard winter storm roared down the West coast from Alaska, pelting rescue workers in bombed out city centers with hard, cold rain, that did not let up for a week. People alive but injured or trapped in the wreckage died of hypothermia before they were found. Two days later, a cold front out of Canada brought heavy snow to the Northeast.
Millions were already without electricity, and in a week of subzero weather hundreds of thousands more died. More than four million, altogether. More than one of every one hundred Americans.

Al Qaeda had picked December 7 because it was the anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor, and because, just before Christmas, the Infidel holiday, it would destroy the Christmas shopping season so important to so many retailers, driving another nail into the national economy of the Great Satan. And it would destroy the festive spirit of the season for millions of Americans, perhaps for all. The perfect psyop. Psychological warfare. And the weather forecasters had predicted severe winter storms on both coasts during the week immediately after disaster.

Al Qaeda leaders had calculated, correctly, that by turning up the violence in Iraq during the weeks before the 2006 election it could achieve an anti-war Democratic Congress that would vote to end America's wars in the Middle East, and then by turning down the violence in Iraq after the election of an anti-war Democratic Congress, it could lull America into a false sense of safety and security in anticipation of the "peace in our time" that America's new ruling party had promised would follow from what Al Qaeda perceived, correctly, as America's retreat before the unstoppable determination of the Islamic Resistance Movement, the Jihad. America did not call it that, of course. The Americans thought they were just ending a bad and illegal war ginned up by George W. Bush to depose Saddam Hussein who had proven not to have WMDs after all, the ones the Americans had never found, the ones buried in Syria. Al Qaeda saw more clearly. It was a capitulation, a de facto surrender of the Middle East to the coming Islamic Caliphate that would someday rule the world. The martyrs of Islam had beaten the Great Satan to its knees. In time they would cut off its head.

By Christmas, the American economy had imploded. Inflation soared, unemployment soared, businesses closed, cities that had suffered direct hits became ghost towns. Tax revenues evaporated, leaving state governments without funds to pay unemployment benefits or teachers' salaries. With the New York Stock Exchange gone, stock trading ended, and values plummeted. Retirement assets and pension funds disappeared in a wink. Nobody knew what to expect. Real estate crashed, and major banks filed for bankruptcy. With the collapse of the American economy, the largest on earth, the most productive country on earth, with just 5% of the global population producing one third of the global economic output, the rest of the global economy fell into chaos. Oil shipments stopped, food shipments stopped, and in that winter millions of people in third world countries starved to death.

The America era was over.

"In the spring of 1941, Nazi Germany was poised to dominate the earth. France, the low countries, Norway, Denmark, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Greece, and much of Poland had been overrun by the Germans. All of Europe, save neutral Sweden and Switzerland, was in the hands of Hitler's friends and allies: dictators or monarchs who ruled fascist Italy, Vichy France, Franco's Spain, Portugal, the Balkan countries, Finland, and above all the Soviet Union."

"A single German division under General Erwin Rommel, sent to rescue beleaguered Italians in Libya, drove Britain's Middle Eastern armies flying and threatened the Suez lifeline; while in Iraq a coup d'etat by the pro-German Rashid Ali cut the land road to India. In Asia, Germany's ally, Japan, was coiled to strike, ready to take Southeast Asia and invade India. No need to involve the United States; by seizing the Indies, Japan could break the American embargo and obtain all the oil needed for the Axis Powers to pursue their war aims.

"Hitler should have sent the bulk of his armies to serve under Rommel, who would have done what Alexander did and Bonaparte failed to do: He would have taken the Middle East and led his armies to India. There he would have linked up with the Japanese. Europe, Asia, and Africa, would have belonged to the coalition of dictators and militarists."

"The Nazi-Soviet-Japanese alliance commanded armed forces and resources that utterly dwarfed the military resources that the holdouts, Britain (with its empire), and the United States, could field. The English-speaking countries would have been isolated in a hostile world and would have had no realistic option but to make their peace with the enemy, retaining some autonomy for a time, perhaps, but doomed ultimately to succumb. Nazi Germany, as leader of the coalition, would have ruled the world."

"Only Hitler's astonishing blunder in betraying and invading his Soviet ally kept it from happening." - David Frompkin, Professor of International Relations and History, Boston University, writing in What If: Eminent Historians Imagine What Might Have Been (Putnam 1999) pp. 308, 309.

History is made, wars are won and lost, cultures and nations and civilizations come and go, rise and fall, as much by blunders as by victories.

The failure of many Americans, including many of the leading Democrats in Congress, and some Republicans, to fully appreciate the persistent, long-term threat posed to America's liberties and survival, and to the future of Liberal Democracies everywhere, by an Islamic Resistance Movement that envisions a world dominated and defined by an Islamic Caliphate of religious totalitarianism, and which will fight any war, make any sacrifice, suffer any hardship, and pay any price to achieve it, may prove to be the kind of blunder upon which the fate of America turns, and falls.

Raymond S. Kraft is an attorney and writer in northern California.

Ordie
04-19-2007, 01:27 AM
Gavin Newsom as VP???rofl

I'll have one "taco al pastor"....

por favor....

Calanen
04-19-2007, 03:07 AM
The level of violence across Iraq immediately subsided, as the Americans began preparations to redeploy back to the States. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad praised the new Congress for its clear vision and sound judgment. America's Democrats rejoiced and congratulated themselves for bringing peace with honor and ending the illegal war based on lies that George Bush had begun only to enrich his friends in the military-industrial complex, and promised to retake the Presidency in 2008.


Yeah right....

a_very_ex_STAB
04-19-2007, 05:07 AM
And... let me guess.....it's obviously all the fault of liberals :roll:

Loken
04-19-2007, 05:46 AM
Reminds me about of Harry S. Turtledoves writing. Can this become reality? Doubtful(save for the parts about iraq) but i think it'd make a pretty interesting book. Can you use a work that presents a hypothetical course of events as a judgement for a political party and what it would do in the future? Not really.

ltrowley
04-19-2007, 06:56 AM
sshh!! dont give them ideas :roll: ixnay on the uclearnay issilemay

seraosha
04-19-2007, 09:29 AM
The failure of many Americans, including many of the leading Democrats in Congress, and some Republicans, to fully appreciate the persistent, long-term threat posed to America's liberties and survival, and to the future of Liberal Democracies everywhere, by an Islamic Resistance Movement that envisions a world dominated and defined by an Islamic Caliphate of religious totalitarianism, and which will fight any war, make any sacrifice, suffer any hardship, and pay any price to achieve it, may prove to be the kind of blunder upon which the fate of America turns, and falls.


Laugh all you want, but it won't change the underlining threat.
Wake up folks.

http://www.theirownwords.com/

Dasein
04-19-2007, 10:17 AM
The failure of many Americans, including many of the leading Democrats in Congress, and some Republicans, to fully appreciate the persistent, long-term threat posed to America's liberties and survival, and to the future of Liberal Democracies everywhere, by an Islamic Resistance Movement that envisions a world dominated and defined by an Islamic Caliphate of religious totalitarianism, and which will fight any war, make any sacrifice, suffer any hardship, and pay any price to achieve it, may prove to be the kind of blunder upon which the fate of America turns, and falls.
Would that be a Sunni or Shia caliphate? Would its capital be in Damascus? Baghdad? Riyadh? Tehran? If one bothers to study the history of Islam, it becomes obvious that any sort of global, let alone regional caliphate is impossible. There are many deep divisions in Islam stretching back to it's earliest days. These alarmist rants are little more than ill-infomred fiction, and while it might make a good screenplay for an action movie, it makes for horrible policy.

a_very_ex_STAB
04-19-2007, 10:56 AM
Would that be a Sunni or Shia caliphate? Would its capital be in Damascus? Baghdad? Riyadh? Tehran? If one bothers to study the history of Islam, it becomes obvious that any sort of global, let alone regional caliphate is impossible. There are many deep divisions in Islam stretching back to it's earliest days. These alarmist rants are little more than ill-infomred fiction, and while it might make a good screenplay for an action movie, it makes for horrible policy.

Precisely 123456

The islamocrazies need The Great Satan of the USA to continue to survive and thrive so they have a bogeyman to control their own people with - just like the military industrial complex of the USA needs the continued existence of the islamocrazies.

cover2
04-19-2007, 11:03 AM
Interesting read. A highly unlikely scenario. But my question is: let us suppose it IS likely. What then is to prevent it from happening? Electing Romney, or McCain, or Rush Limbaugh? How are liberal democrats to blame? You link the pullout from Iraq with what happens in Iran and N. Korea. I don't see any of that as mutually exclusive. Thus, it's all very unrealistic. But fun for a kid in high school to write, maybe. Or Junior high.

Wolfe117
04-19-2007, 11:36 AM
Precisely 123456

The islamocrazies need The Great Satan of the USA to continue to survive and thrive so they have a bogeyman to control their own people with - just like the military industrial complex of the USA needs the continued existence of the islamocrazies.


I wouldn't say they "need" the Great Satan of the USA, but they do use that to their advantage. All they need are young men and women who are prepared to do horrible things to people to intimidate and force a populace into submission. Let's remember that long before the United States was a country there already existed states in the world under fundamentalist Islamic rule.

Wolfe117
04-19-2007, 11:38 AM
Interesting read. A highly unlikely scenario. But my question is: let us suppose it IS likely. What then is to prevent it from happening? Electing Romney, or McCain, or Rush Limbaugh? How are liberal democrats to blame? You link the pullout from Iraq with what happens in Iran and N. Korea. I don't see any of that as mutually exclusive. Thus, it's all very unrealistic. But fun for a kid in high school to write, maybe. Or Junior high.

I think the point the writer was trying to make was that certain messages being sent from inside the US come accross as weakness to America's enemies.

Dasein
04-19-2007, 11:42 AM
Well, first of all, North Korea is nowhere close to making low-yield nukes that could fit in a cruise missile. Miniturizing nuclear weapons takes quite a bit of skill, and the North Koreas and still years away from even a Hiroshima-type bomb. Further, North Korea is under an intelligence microscope by many countries, all of whom are listening for the tell-tale siesmic activity of a nuclear test. Even a sub-kiloton test would be detected. Multiple tests would be required to develop multiple warheads capable of being mounted on a cruise missile. While the North Koreans might be able to develop such technology left unchecked, it would take them decades, not a year and a half.

Further, the north Koreans seem much more interested in using their nuclear program as a bargaining chip with the United States, and at worst would see a Democrat administration as possible suckers for concessions, but I highly doubt the North Koreas would actually attack the US directly. To do so would be suicide, and they know it. Kim Jong Il is crazy, but not suicidal.

Dasein
04-19-2007, 11:43 AM
I think the point the writer was trying to make was that certain messages being sent from inside the US come accross as weakness to America's enemies.

And other messages empower the enemies by presenting them as much larger and more capalbe than they really are. The Global War on Terror is the best Al Qaeda propaganda you could imagine.

perdurabo
04-19-2007, 12:02 PM
good read, total fantasy but i liked it, it fits perfectly good in one line with Tom Clancy, WEB Griffin, Larry Bond et consortes :)

shocker1
04-19-2007, 12:24 PM
Interesting. So 20 nukes take out DC and such. No nuclear strikes of our own? No kickin the crap out of every tin pot country that has given grief over the past 30 years? No draft? I think not, as far out there as this is I would have to say it is not impossible for Iran, AQ and the DPRK to do. However if this were to happen I would imagine the extreme hard line would be the order of the day and America would be very very pissed.

soamr
04-19-2007, 06:39 PM
This is my first post and it probably won't win me any friends in this forum, but here goes ... This is probably one of the stupidest things I have read on this site and there have been some "classics."

First off, at this point, Iraq is nothing more than a university for advanced insurgency and terror techniques. We will continue to see the grim lessons learned there employed throughout Europe, Asia, the Middle East and eventually here in the US for years, if not decades to come.

Second, if there is to be any finger-pointing about not appreciating and/or responding to intelligence indicating impending, if not imminent attack, you need look no further than George W. Bush (By the way, IMHO, he is clearly the stupidest man ever to sit in that chair!) and **** Cheney. Their lame excuse for dropping the ball and not taking any preventative actions was that no one told them specifically when, where and what kind of attack to expect. Did they expect an engraved invitation? Actually, it seems they were too busy planning for the Baghdad ticker tape parade and how the streets could be cleared of all the flowers that would be showered on our soldiers after the liberation.

* United States White House briefing on terror threats of August 6, 2001
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._White_House_briefing_on_terror_threats_of_August_6%2C_2001

... "The U.S. White House briefing on terror threats of August 6, 2001 is the briefing given to U.S. president George W. Bush and members of his administration by security agencies on that date, concerning terror threats from Osama bin Laden and others" ...

In contrast, the Millenium plot was thwarted by then President Clinton's decision to place the security assets on alert status as result of intelligence indicating possible terrorist attacks. Meanwhile, Republicans were too busy tracking down evidence of a blowjob in the Oval Office to rally around the President's efforts to kill bin Laden.

* 2000 millennium attack plots
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_millennium_attack_plots

... "A man named Ahmed Ressam, an Algerian living in Canada, planned to bomb Los Angeles International Airport in Los Angeles, California, United States. He was arrested at the United States-Canada border in Port Angeles, Washington after crossing by ferry on December 14, 1999. Customs officials then found nitroglycerin and four timing devices concealed in a spare tire well of his automobile. He and three other Algerians stood trial for the crime. Ressam began cooperating with investigators in 2001. On July 27, 2005, he was sentenced to 22 years in prison" ...

... While in prison, Ressam revealed that al-Qaida sleeper cells existed within the United States. This information was included in the famous Presidential Daily Briefing delivered to President Bush on August 6, 2001, entitled "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US" (see above) ... :bash:

Dakota435
04-19-2007, 07:41 PM
This is my first post and it probably won't win me any friends in this forum, but here goes ... This is probably one of the stupidest things I have read on this site and there have been some "classics."

First off, at this point, Iraq is nothing more than a university for advanced insurgency and terror techniques. We will continue to see the grim lessons learned there employed throughout Europe, Asia, the Middle East and eventually here in the US for years, if not decades to come.

Second, if there is to be any finger-pointing about not appreciating and/or responding to intelligence indicating impending, if not imminent attack, you need look no further than George W. Bush (By the way, IMHO, he is clearly the stupidest man ever to sit in that chair!) and **** Cheney. Their lame excuse for dropping the ball and not taking any preventative actions was that no one told them specifically when, where and what kind of attack to expect. Did they expect an engraved invitation? Actually, it seems they were too busy planning for the Baghdad ticker tape parade and how the streets could be cleared of all the flowers that would be showered on our soldiers after the liberation.

* United States White House briefing on terror threats of August 6, 2001
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._White_House_briefing_on_terror_threats_of_August_6%2C_2001

... "The U.S. White House briefing on terror threats of August 6, 2001 is the briefing given to U.S. president George W. Bush and members of his administration by security agencies on that date, concerning terror threats from Osama bin Laden and others" ...

In contrast, the Millenium plot was thwarted by then President Clinton's decision to place the security assets on alert status as result of intelligence indicating possible terrorist attacks. Meanwhile, Republicans were too busy tracking down evidence of a blowjob in the Oval Office to rally around the President's efforts to kill bin Laden.

* 2000 millennium attack plots
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_millennium_attack_plots

... "A man named Ahmed Ressam, an Algerian living in Canada, planned to bomb Los Angeles International Airport in Los Angeles, California, United States. He was arrested at the United States-Canada border in Port Angeles, Washington after crossing by ferry on December 14, 1999. Customs officials then found nitroglycerin and four timing devices concealed in a spare tire well of his automobile. He and three other Algerians stood trial for the crime. Ressam began cooperating with investigators in 2001. On July 27, 2005, he was sentenced to 22 years in prison" ...

... While in prison, Ressam revealed that al-Qaida sleeper cells existed within the United States. This information was included in the famous Presidential Daily Briefing delivered to President Bush on August 6, 2001, entitled "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US" (see above) ... :bash:

This is just too brainless to comment on....

WKD
04-20-2007, 12:49 AM
I think it's total trash also. Reads like the usual ZOMG DUMBOCRATS TAKE THE WHITE HOUSE AND MAKE BIN LADEN PRESIDENT!!11!! I'd expect this kind of fantasy crap from a 12 year old. A 12 year old with an agenda.

a_very_ex_STAB
04-20-2007, 03:50 AM
This is my first post and it probably won't win me any friends in this forum, but here goes ... This is probably one of the stupidest things I have read on this site and there have been some "classics."

First off, at this point, Iraq is nothing more than a university for advanced insurgency and terror techniques. We will continue to see the grim lessons learned there employed throughout Europe, Asia, the Middle East and eventually here in the US for years, if not decades to come.

Second, if there is to be any finger-pointing about not appreciating and/or responding to intelligence indicating impending, if not imminent attack, you need look no further than George W. Bush (By the way, IMHO, he is clearly the stupidest man ever to sit in that chair!) and **** Cheney. Their lame excuse for dropping the ball and not taking any preventative actions was that no one told them specifically when, where and what kind of attack to expect. Did they expect an engraved invitation? Actually, it seems they were too busy planning for the Baghdad ticker tape parade and how the streets could be cleared of all the flowers that would be showered on our soldiers after the liberation.

* United States White House briefing on terror threats of August 6, 2001
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._White_House_briefing_on_terror_threats_of_August_6%2C_2001

... "The U.S. White House briefing on terror threats of August 6, 2001 is the briefing given to U.S. president George W. Bush and members of his administration by security agencies on that date, concerning terror threats from Osama bin Laden and others" ...

In contrast, the Millenium plot was thwarted by then President Clinton's decision to place the security assets on alert status as result of intelligence indicating possible terrorist attacks. Meanwhile, Republicans were too busy tracking down evidence of a blowjob in the Oval Office to rally around the President's efforts to kill bin Laden.

* 2000 millennium attack plots
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_millennium_attack_plots

... "A man named Ahmed Ressam, an Algerian living in Canada, planned to bomb Los Angeles International Airport in Los Angeles, California, United States. He was arrested at the United States-Canada border in Port Angeles, Washington after crossing by ferry on December 14, 1999. Customs officials then found nitroglycerin and four timing devices concealed in a spare tire well of his automobile. He and three other Algerians stood trial for the crime. Ressam began cooperating with investigators in 2001. On July 27, 2005, he was sentenced to 22 years in prison" ...

... While in prison, Ressam revealed that al-Qaida sleeper cells existed within the United States. This information was included in the famous Presidential Daily Briefing delivered to President Bush on August 6, 2001, entitled "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US" (see above) ... :bash:

Excellent post.
Ignore Dakota he's the satanic love child of Dubya and a retarded baboon.;)