Massoud's letter to the US government and people...

[Rebel 7]

A letter from Ahmed Shah Massoud to the U.S.A. in 1998

(those who aren't aware of who Massoud was, he was the commander of the anti-Taliban and anti-Al Qaida resistance in Afghanistan)

In the name of God

Mr. Chairman, honorable representatives of the people of the United States of America,

I send this message to you today on behalf of the freedom and peace-loving people of Afghanistan, the Mujahedeen freedom fighters who resisted and defeated Soviet communism, the men and women who are still resisting oppression and foreign hegemony and, in the name of more than one and a half million Afghan martyrs who sacrificed their lives to uphold some of the same values and ideals shared by most Americans and Afghans alike. This is a crucial and unique moment in the history of Afghanistan and the world, a time when Afghanistan has crossed yet another threshold and is entering a new stage of struggle and resistance for its survival as a free nation and independent state.
I have spent the past 20 years, most of my youth and adult life, alongside my compatriots, at the service of the Afghan nation, fighting an uphill battle to preserve our freedom, independence, right to self-determination and dignity. Afghans fought for God and country, sometime alone, at other times with the support of the international community. Against all odds, we, meaning the free world and Afghans, halted and checkmated Soviet expansionism a decade ago. But the embattled people of my country did not savor the fruits of victory. Instead they were thrust in a whirlwind of foreign intrigue, deception, great-gamesmanship and internal strife. Our country and our noble people were brutalized, the victims of misplaced greed, hegemonic designs and ignorance. We Afghans erred too. Our shortcomings were as a result of political innocence, inexperience, vulnerability, victimization, bickering and inflated egos. But by no means does this justify what some of our so-called Cold War allies did to undermine this just victory and unleash their diabolical plans to destroy and subjugate Afghanistan.

Today, the world clearly sees and feels the results of such misguided and evil deeds. South-Central Asia is in turmoil, some countries on the brink of war. Illegal drug production, terrorist activities and planning are on the rise. Ethnic and religiously-motivated mass murders and forced displacements are taking place, and the most basic human and women?s rights are shamelessly violated. The country has gradually been occupied by fanatics, extremists, terrorists, mercenaries, drug Mafias and professional murderers. One faction, the Taliban, which by no means rightly represents Islam, Afghanistan or our centuries-old cultural heritage, has with direct foreign assistance exacerbated this explosive situation. They are unyielding and unwilling to talk or reach a compromise with any other Afghan side.

Unfortunately, this dark accomplishment could not have materialized without the direct support and involvement of influential governmental and non-governmental circles in Pakistan. Aside from receiving military logistics, fuel and arms from Pakistan, our intelligence reports indicate that more than 28,000 Pakistani citizens, including paramilitary personnel and military advisers are part of the Taliban occupation forces in various parts of Afghanistan. We currently hold more than 500 Pakistani citizens including military personnel in our POW camps. Three major concerns - namely terrorism, drugs and human rights - originate from Taliban-held areas but are instigated from Pakistan, thus forming the inter-connecting angles of an evil triangle. For many Afghans, regardless of ethnicity or religion, Afghanistan, for the second time in one decade, is once again an occupied country.

Let me correct a few fallacies that are propagated by Taliban backers and their lobbies around the world. This situation over the short and long-run, even in case of total control by the Taliban, will not be to anyone?s interest. It will not result in stability, peace and prosperity in the region. The people of Afghanistan will not accept such a repressive regime. Regional countries will never feel secure and safe. Resistance will not end in Afghanistan, but will take on a new national dimension, encompassing all Afghan ethnic and social strata.

The goal is clear. Afghans want to regain their right to self-determination through a democratic or traditional mechanism acceptable to our people. No one group, faction or individual has the right to dictate or impose its will by force or proxy on others. But first, the obstacles have to be overcome, the war has to end, just peace established and a transitional administration set up to move us toward a representative government.

We are willing to move toward this noble goal. We consider this as part of our duty to defend humanity against the scourge of intolerance, violence and fanaticism. But the international community and the democracies of the world should not waste any valuable time, and instead play their critical role to assist in any way possible the valiant people of Afghanistan overcome the obstacles that exist on the path to freedom, peace, stability and prosperity. Effective pressure should be exerted on those countries who stand against the aspirations of the people of Afghanistan. I urge you to engage in constructive and substantive discussions with our representatives and all Afghans who can and want to be part of a broad consensus for peace and freedom for Afghanistan.

With all due respect and my best wishes for the government and people of the United States,

Ahmad Shah Massoud.

[Marmot1]

http://www.theestimate.com/images/masoud.jpg
RIP Ahmad Shah Mas'oud — "Lion of the Panjshir"
Damn this guy was my idol he fighted consstantly 25 years against Soviet,Taliban,and other scums...


On September 9, the most famous Afghan field commander of all, Ahmad Shah Mas'oud — "Lion of the Panjshir" and mainstay of the Northern Alliance's anti-Taliban front north of Kabul — was to give an interview to two Arab men who claimed to be journalists. A suicide bomb went off — either in a camera or on one of the journalists' bodies — in an assassination attempt. Though Western reports suggested that Mas'oud might have died immediately, over the next few days his allies (including his brother abroad) said that he was first in a coma, then had been able to utter a few words. But on September 15 it was announced that he had died the previous night.

Ahmad Shah Mas'oud's reputation as a guerrilla commander ranks among the biggest names of the past century, and he had eluded capture or assassination by Soviet SpetsNaz and later the Taliban for decades. That he died, not in battle, but as a result of an assassination is ironic.

But there is an obvious question which Afghanistan watchers began asking on September 11. Was the assassination linked to the air attacks on New York and Washington two days later? Was the last remaining successful field commander against the Taliban being taken out before the US began to rally support against that regime?

Already after the September 9 attack, the Afghan Northern Alliance had been blaming the attack on Usama bin Ladin, since the use of a suicide bomb seems to have Bin Ladin's favor. The "journalists" claimed to be with "Arab News International" and were meeting with Mas'oud in his office in Takhar. Almost immediately after the blast, the Taliban launched a major offensive in the north. (The Alliance struck back, hitting an ammunition dump near Kabul airport, in turn spurring reports on CNN suggesting a US missile attack was under way.) Though the Taliban denied any role in the attack on Mas'oud, it is hard to deny that it at least appears linked to the Taliban offensive, if not to what was about to happen on the other side of the world.

The Northern Alliance has, of course, offered its assistance in any coalition against the Taliban, and some of its leaders would doubtless hope that their enemies have finally bitten off more than they can chew, and are on the way to a fall. But the Northern Alliance has been rather toothless in recent years, losing territory persistently to the Taliban except for a few ethnic enclaves of Tajik, Uzbek, and Turkmen populations along the northern border which have resisted the Pashtun-dominated Taliban. But the only front where the Northern Alliance has continued to give trouble to the Taliban was the Panjshir Valley and neighboring regions where Mas'oud's forces are entrenched.

Without Mas'oud and his (largely ethnic Tajik) fighters, there is little to the Northern Alliance's position. After Kabul fell in 1996, Mas'oud fought hard to block the Taliban north of the capital and for years has managed to battle back towards Kabul whenever a Taliban offensive threatened the Panjshir.

While some skeptics have claimed his military reputation is overrated, others believe that he ranks with the greatest guerrilla leaders of all time. No other Afghan commander against the Soviets had anything like his success (or his public relations, for that matter). Certainly he had the most charismatic image of the leaders of the (otherwise rather colorless) Northern Alliance.

If the attack on Mas'oud was a Bin Laden operation, and the use of Arabs to carry it out, as well as the suicide bomb, would seem to point in that direction, then it suggests that the Taliban have become not merely the protectors of Bin Laden, but perhaps that he has become a key operational planner for them as well. The fact that a Taliban offensive immediately followed the blast makes it unlikely that the Taliban (or at least Taliban Amir Mullah Muhammad 'Umar, who has a marriage link with Bin Laden) did not know about the attack on Mas'oud in advance.

Mas'oud's fighters are hardened by years of war, but now they are bereft of their leader. His successor as field commander, the Intelligence Chief General Mohammad Fahim, has large shoes to fill.

[vikingblade]

piece of **** bin laden had this warrior/leader assassinated. one more reason he needs to go down hard.

[Jack Mehoff]

Sad thing is some mental midgets on this board could not differentiate Taliban/Al Queda and Mujahideen.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Sad thing is some mental midgets on this board could not differentiate Taliban/Al Queda and Mujahideen.
So true Jack, to many people on this board they are all classed under sand n*ggers, camel jockeys and Muslim scum. :|

[chauncy republicans]

Interesting post Rebel17, hope to read more from you.

[Haiw]

piece of **** bin laden had this warrior/leader assassinated. one more reason he needs to go down hard.
Wasn't it the Pakistani ISI? The same ones that are now 'on our side'? :(
Really a shame this guy is dead now; if anything, I'd say he could have been crucial in unifying Afghanistan in one country again, instead of just a heap of provinces ruled by warlords.

[weedman]

Would have been interesting to see him in 20 years :roll:

[duck]

The article made me think. What if the ISI was aware of or actually planned 9/11 together with Bin Laden? How many of those officers are still in service "chasing terrorists" in Pakistan?

[Uninen]

piece of **** bin laden had this warrior/leader assassinated. one more reason he needs to go down hard.
Wasn't it the Pakistani ISI? The same ones that are now 'on our side'? :(
Really a shame this guy is dead now; if anything, I'd say he could have been crucial in unifying Afghanistan in one country again, instead of just a heap of provinces ruled by warlords.

I dont think that "ISI" does suicide bombings.... it was two terrorists, propably from OBL:s group that pretended to be reporters.... they blew themselfs up, and killed this man in progress....

Futhermore...

Three major concerns - namely terrorism, drugs and human rights - originate from Taliban-held areas
Make no mistake about it, this man and his troops werent any less guilty to any of these than the Taleban.

[Haiw]

piece of **** bin laden had this warrior/leader assassinated. one more reason he needs to go down hard.
Wasn't it the Pakistani ISI? The same ones that are now 'on our side'? :(
Really a shame this guy is dead now; if anything, I'd say he could have been crucial in unifying Afghanistan in one country again, instead of just a heap of provinces ruled by warlords.

I dont think that "ISI" does suicide bombings.... it was two terrorists, propably from OBL:s group that pretended to be reporters.... they blew themselfs up, and killed this man in progress....

Futhermore...

Three major concerns - namely terrorism, drugs and human rights - originate from Taliban-held areas
Make no mistake about it, this man and his troops werent any less guilty to any of these than the Taleban.
Well maybe I might have mixed up rumour and fact then but I'm a 100% sure that ISI was and still is one of the main suspects (or at least connected to it).

[Uninen]

Massoud was the victim of a suicide attack which occurred at Khvajeh Ba Odin on September 9, 2001, two days before the September 11, 2001 Terrorist Attack in the United States, a timing considered significant by some commentators. The attackers were two Arabs who claimed to be Belgians originally from Morocco. However their passports turned out to be stolen. According to some accounts they were posing as journalists, perhaps intending to attack several Northern Alliance council members simultaneously. They set off a bomb hidden in either a video camera or a belt worn by one of the attackers. It appears that Massoud died within 30 minutes, although his death was denied until September 13. The explosion also killed Mohammed Asim Suhail, a Northern Alliance official, while Mohammad Fahim Dashti and Massoud Khalili were injured. One of the attackers was killed by the explosion and the other was shot while trying to escape.

The French secret service revealed October 16, 2003 that the camera used by Massoud's assassins had been stolen in December 2000 Grenoble, France from a photo-journalist, Jean-Pierre Vincendet, who was then working on a story on that city's Christmas store window displays. By tracing the serial number that appeared in the camera, the FBI was able to determine Vincendet as the original owner. The French secret service and the FBI then began working on tracing the route that the camera took between the time it was taken from Vincendet and the Massoud assassination.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

I dont think that "ISI" does suicide bombings.... No but the ISI could orchestrate one, and it has been proven beyond doubt that there was firm ties between Al-Q, Taliban and the ISI.

[khukuri]

http://www.theestimate.com/images/masoud.jpg
RIP Ahmad Shah Mas'oud — "Lion of the Panjshir"
Damn this guy was my idol he fighted consstantly 25 years against Soviet,Taliban,and other scums...

[Rebel 7]

piece of **** bin laden had this warrior/leader assassinated. one more reason he needs to go down hard.
Wasn't it the Pakistani ISI? The same ones that are now 'on our side'? :(
Really a shame this guy is dead now; if anything, I'd say he could have been crucial in unifying Afghanistan in one country again, instead of just a heap of provinces ruled by warlords.

I dont think that "ISI" does suicide bombings.... it was two terrorists, propably from OBL:s group that pretended to be reporters.... they blew themselfs up, and killed this man in progress....

Futhermore...

Three major concerns - namely terrorism, drugs and human rights - originate from Taliban-held areas
Make no mistake about it, this man and his troops werent any less guilty to any of these than the Taleban.


I dont think that "ISI" does suicide bombings

Of course the ISI itself does not do suicide bombings. They are an agency who trains and recruits people for the Taliban and Al Qaida and gathers fighters with a suicide mentality to go fight for Pakistan in Kashmir and Afghanistan. Here is a something to think about....how many of these Al Qaida and Taliban fighters spent time in a Pakistani madrassa? I bet you'd be surprised by the high numbers.


it was two terrorists, propably from OBL:s group that pretended to be reporters.... they blew themselfs up, and killed this man in progress....

It was two terrorists sent by bin Laden with the blessing of ISI. I have a video clip of the aftermath of the incident, and the bodies of the terrorist blown to pieces in the room where the bomb went off. Also, it is known that Musharraf held a private party for members of his military and government after hearing news of Massouds death. I will try to find the article that stated this.

I don't think you know about the history of the ISI and its hate towards Massoud who did not want Afghanistan to become a satellite state for Pakistan to train terrorists to send into Kashmir and the Central Asian Republics. Do you know about the Kagril incident? Pakistan and the ISI deny that too. Do you know how many military and civilians were sent by the ISI into Afghanistan to fight against Massoud? I have a video clip of hundreds of Pakistanis being interrogated by the Northern Alliance and they admit that they were sent by the ISI to fight Massoud. If you know someone who can speak farsi, I'll send you the clip through MSN and you can watch it yourself.


Three major concerns - namely terrorism, drugs and human rights - originate from Taliban-held areas
Make no mistake about it, this man and his troops werent any less guilty to any of these than the Taleban.[/quote]

Please specify where and when Massoud's men were responsible for a terrorist attack. The never have committed a terrorist attack upon anyone or any nation and that is a fact. As for drugs, there were corrupt warlords he could not control that were smuggling drugs and were responsible for human rights abuses. If you research Rashid Dostum's history, Sayyaf's history, you'll know what I am talking about. Massoud never approved of these men's actions but due to dire circumstances (ie. he was fighting the Taliban which had 50,000+ soldiers compared to his 10,000 soldiers, the Taliban who had full military support from Pakistan and unlimited funds form UBL), he worked with them in their fight against the Taliban. The US is now using men such as Dostum to help them fight the Taliban and Al Qaida, that doesn't mean that the US endorses drug smuggling or human rights abuses just because of this.

[Rebel 7]

I dont think that "ISI" does suicide bombings.... No but the ISI could orchestrate one, and it has been proven beyond doubt that there was firm ties between Al-Q, Taliban and the ISI.

You are right, there were very strong ties between the ISI, Al Qaida and the Taliban. In fact, during the 80's, bin Laden, Gulbudeen, and the ISI were having a love affair that resulted in their creation of the Taliban and Al Qaida. It is well known that the ISI sent money and funds from the CIA not to Massoud, but picked the most hardcore fundamentalists such as Gulbudeen. The madrassas of Pakistan were the recruiting grounds for men sent to fight for Al Qaida and the Taliban. The hundreds upon thousands of Pakistani agents caught in Afghanistan fighting for Al Qaida and the Taliban is evidence of ISI's invovlement. I mean, even these Pakistani POWs admitted to having been sent by the ISI.

[Rebel 7]

The article made me think. What if the ISI was aware of or actually planned 9/11 together with Bin Laden? How many of those officers are still in service "chasing terrorists" in Pakistan?

I believe India was able to track down ISI accounts that were used to send money to some of the hijackers and the Indian government presented its case to the US government. I will find the article and post it here. The ISI trained fighters for bin Laden, it only seems obvious that they most likely had prior knowledge of Sept. 11. Most of the ISI officers pretending to chase terrorists in Afghanistan are still working for the ISI, which is probably the reason why UBL hasn't been caught still and most of the Taliban leadership are still on the loose (namely Mullah Omar and others).

[Aussie E]

I vaguely remeber two unmarked planes arriving in a northern held Taliban city (edit: Kunduz) that was surrounded by the Northen Allience and US SF, from reports these planes were loaded with high level Pakistanis and allowed to fly them back to Pakistan. Seeing the US had total air superiority, these flights must have been sanctioned, as if they weren't they would never had made it there, let alone back in the air and out of the country. If anyone has more information on this I would appreciate reading about it.

[Rebel 7]

I vaguely remeber two unmarked planes arriving in a northern held Taliban city (Mazar-e-Sharif maybe) that was surrounded by the Northen Allience and US SF, from reports these planes were loaded with high level Pakistanis and allowed to fly them back to Pakistan. Seeing the US had total air superiority, these flights must have been sanctioned, as if they weren't they would never had made it there, let alone back in the air and out of the country. If anyone has more information on this I would appreciate reading about it.

Yes, there were those reports. I will post two from two different sources for your convenience.

Alliance Reports Planes Flew Into Kunduz to Rescue Fighters
Author: Dexter Filkins and Carlotta Gall
Publication: The New York Times
Date: November 23, 2001
Bangi, Afghanistan, Nov. 23 — Northern Alliance soldiers said today that Pakistani airplanes had once again flown into the encircled city of Kunduz to evacuate Pakistanis who have been fighting alongside Afghan Taliban forces trapped there.

The planes arrived as alliance leaders prepared to accept a partial surrender of Taliban forces in the last northern city they hold. But contradictory signals continued to surround the fate of the town.

Earlier in the week, alliance officials said they had been told by a Taliban leader in Kunduz that at least three Pakistani Air Force planes had landed in recent days on similar missions.

Two more planes landed Thursday night, according to the latest report. One Northern Alliance official said that a group of people had been observed today waiting for another plane to arrive at the Kunduz airport.

None of the sightings could be confirmed. American officials, who have been evasive on this subject, say they do not have information on the planes. Pakistani officials today declined comment.

The United States is indebted to Pakistan for its support of the war against terrorism, but it has said it wants any foreign fighters trapped in Kunduz captured or killed. Pakistan has made clear that it is deeply concerned about some of its agents and soldiers trapped in the town.

Elsewhere in Afghanistan, Taliban forces regrouped, forming strong pockets of resistance in the east of the country. Pakistani intelligence officials said Taliban forces, led by hard-core Arab fighters, were digging in at two points southeast and southwest of Kabul, the Afghan capital.

They said the fighters had also established bases at two locations in Jalalabad in northeastern Afghanistan, within 40 miles of the Pakistan border. Rumors are rife in Jalalabad that the accused terrorist leader Osama bin Laden may be among them, possibly in an area of jagged ridges called Tora Bora.

As alliance officials and Taliban commanders have negotiated the surrender of the Taliban garrison at Kunduz in recent days, a major stumbling block has been the fate of thousands of non-Afghan Taliban fighters, many from Pakistan or Arab countries, who are considered to be the Taliban's fiercest soldiers.

The non-Afghan fighters have said that they will fight to the death, rather than surrender. The prospect of a massacre is particularly troubling to Pakistan, whose government is concerned about preventing the deaths of Pakistani nationals.

The British Foreign Secretary, Jack Straw, met with Pakistan's president, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, in Islamabad today and said that the situation in Kunduz was grave and that any fighters who surrender should not be mistreated.

"If people are ready to surrender, then the surrender should be accepted," Mr. Straw told reporters after the meeting.

General Musharraf has pressed the American-led coalition to insure their safe surrender. But the Americans and British said they did not have troops to monitor a hand-over of soldiers.

An American official said today that the United States Central Command was considering how American and coalition forces might deal with vast numbers of non-Afghan prisoners, especially those who might have valuable intelligence about the Taliban regime or Mr. bin Laden's Al Qaeda terrorist network.

"We are not interested in having a large, long-term presence of any kind or managing P.O.W.'s," the American official said. "But clearly, we'd be interested in interrogating the prisoners."

"It's safe to say that CentCom is involved in a lot of aspects, including what they might do if scores of prisoners come out," the official said, referring to the Central Command. "But we're looking for as limited a role as possible, with as much access to the prisoners as we can."

The treatment of prisoners would be overseen by the International Committee of the Red Cross. The organization's president, Jakob Kellenberger, arrived in Kabul today to meet with local Red Cross workers as well as Northern Alliance officials about potential prisoners.

At the same time, the Northern Alliance, in the face an array of conflicting signals, said today that it was preparing to accept a partial surrender of Taliban troops trapped inside Kunduz.

Daoud Khan, the general in charge of Northern Alliance forces around the besieged city, said he had been assured by Taliban leaders that their troops would begin laying down their weapons Saturday morning. The surrender deal calls for the Taliban to turn over the front lines of the city first, and then gradually surrender their forces until they reach the interior of Kunduz.

But the fortunes of the foreign Taliban troops remained a source of serious dispute within the Northern Alliance today.

Some alliance officials today accused Gen. Abdul Rashid Dostum, an alliance commander, of striking a deal with the Pakistani government to evacuate several hundred foreign fighters. Atiqullah Baryalai, the deputy defense minister, was one of a handful of Northern Alliance leaders who asserted today that General Dostum had allowed more than 50 pickup trucks full of foreigners to leave Kunduz and gather at an undisclosed location outside Mazar-i-Sharif. Mr. Baryalai said he suspected that General Dostum may have acted at the request of the Pakistani government.

"Fifty trucks left Kunduz full of foreign Taliban, and they did not come back," Mr. Baryalai said. "We believe Mr. Dostum is responsible."

General Dostum could not be reached for a response today.

The surrender agreement, worked out by Taliban and Northern Alliance negotiators earlier this week, would end the encirclement of one of the largest garrisons of Taliban soldiers left in Afghanistan. The Northern Alliance says the city holds as many as 16,000 Taliban soldiers, many of them refugees from battles lost across northern Afghanistan. Of those, as many as 6,000 are Taliban troops from foreign countries, Northern Alliance officials say. The Pentagon estimates the total number of fighters in the city at 3,000.

The agreement is fraught with potential problems that could transform an orderly surrender into a pitched battle. The trickiest unresolved issue is the future of the foreign soldiers. While Northern Alliance leaders are offering amnesty for most Taliban soldiers, they say they want to put the foreigners on trial, with death as a potential punishment.

Faced with that choice, many of the foreign troops have vowed to make a last stand in Kunduz. Northern Alliance leaders say that they are expecting a fight with the foreigners, and probably sooner rather than later. General Khan said today that the town of Khanabad, southeast of Kunduz, holds several hundred Pakistani Taliban. The town is one of the first places that is supposed to surrender.

"We think the Taliban will surrender tomorrow, but not all of them," General Khan said. "Some of them are going to resist."

American special forces personnel helped draw up the surrender plan, Northern Alliance officials said.

To help persuade Taliban soldiers to give up, the Taliban's leadership in Kunduz would surrender first. That includes Mullah Fazel and Mullah Dadullah, two Taliban leaders known for their ruthlessness and zeal. Some Northern Alliance leaders wanted to arrest the two, but ultimately they decided to give them a chance.

"When Mullah Dadullah and Mullah Dadullah surrender, all the others will follow," said Ostad Atta Mohammed, a Northern Alliance general. "If they honestly surrender and hand over the foreigners, and cooperate with us in capturing Osama bin Laden, then we will also allow them to go home."

The two men, both ethnic Pashtuns from the area around Kandahar, are in Kunduz trying to persuade hard-line Taliban soldiers to give up, Northern Alliance officials said. According to Northern Alliance leaders, Mullah Fazel had assured them that most of the foreigners were ready to quit, and that most of the diehard Arab fighters had already been killed in fighting. Taliban leaders have told the Northern Alliance that there are no more than 1,000 foreign fighters left in Kunduz.

Taliban leaders initially tried to negotiate an amnesty for the foreign fighters, but the Northern Alliance refused.

"They have a mind, they know what they are doing," General Mohammed said. "They came to fight our people. They also supported the Taliban."

Refugees arriving from Kunduz today spoke of a city in turmoil, with nervous Taliban soldiers looking for a way out of Kunduz that would not involve surrender.

"The Taliban are selling their guns for 600,000 afghanis [about $10] because they want to live," said Maifi, a 24-year-old shopkeeper who walked across the front lines. "And people are giving them money so they will leave."

[Rebel 7]

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0111/24/cst.05.html

Did Pakistan Air-Lift Taliban Soldiers Out of Konduz?
Aired November 24, 2001 - 16:04 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JONATHAN MANN, CNN ANCHOR: There may be thousands of fighters still in and surrounded in Konduz. Today's "New York Times" reports that Pakistan may have air lifted some pro-Taliban fighters out of Afghanistan. And that's leading to strong denials in both Pakistan and in the United States.

For more, we turn to CNN's Brian Nelson at the Pentagon -- Brian.

BRIAN NELSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Jon. The Pentagon is strongly denying reports that Pakistani aircraft had managed to land in the airport in the city of Konduz. These are secondhand reports from the Northern Alliance, who are quoting Taliban leaders. And what they're saying is that five, in the past couple of weeks, five Pakistani planes have managed to land at that rather damaged airport in Konduz and have ferried out the Pakistani forces, who have been fighting alongside the al Qaeda and Taliban troops inside the city of Konduz.

Now the Marine Colonel David Lapan (ph) told me this. And this is a quote: "Absolutely not, there's no truth to it. We control the skies over Afghanistan."

And Defense Secretary Rumsfeld has made is clear about foreign fighters not being allowed out. And it makes no sense to us that we'd allow any aircraft into that area to do what you described. And he said, there's no way any planes could land in that area, anywhere in Afghanistan, particularly in Konduz, without being detected by U.S. surveillance. And he finished by saying everyone seems to like a conspiracy theory.

Now in other news, the military is also watching the surrenders as they're playing out in Konduz and Mazar-e Sharif and elsewhere in Afghanistan. Although they have some uncertainty about how it's all going to play out in the end.

A spokesman for the U.S. central command said that the U.S. military personnel has personnel on the ground right now, monitoring the surrenders in Konduz and Mazar-e Sharif. It's also watching through electronic surveillance means, presumably that means drones and satellites.

But the U.S. is leaving the prisoner issue solely in the hands of the Northern Alliance. Said that spokesman, "We have no idea how that is going to play out." And asked if foreign troops who surrender or who are captured would be interrogated by the U.S. on the ground there in Afghanistan or perhaps might be flown out to more secure camps either in the United States or some third country, he says, "We can't say because we don't know."

Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, as we said earlier, said that the U.S. has no interest in being a jailer, It has not the personnel nor the interest in being able to jail and feed thousands of these Taliban prisoners on the ground in Afghanistan. And those positions have been conveyed to the Northern Alliance personally by the General Tommy Franks, the commander of the U.S. central command.

So the situation is so fluid that we're told that the U.S. is not committing itself to anything yet on the ground regarding those prisoners until the dust settles in Afghanistan -- Jon.

MANN: Brian, it's not clear that Washington has a vote in what happens, but has it expressed any opinion at all? Does it want to see the prisoners dealt with in one way rather than another?

NELSON: Well, Defense Secretary Rumsfeld talked about that last week. He was pretty clear about it. He said we either want to see them captured or we want to see them killed. I mean, you can't get any more explicit than that.

MANN: Brian Nelson at the Pentagon. Thanks very much.

NELSON: Thanks.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com

[Aussie E]

I think that we need to take a long hard look at our two "closest" allies in the war on terror: Pakistan and Suadi Arabia. In the last couple of weeks two Pakistanis have been arrested in Australia under terrorism charges and there are continueing attacks on westerners inside Saudi Arabia. I believe that the people in charge of these two countries are supporters on the GWOT, but it's the mid-level officials (gov/intel/military) that have the most impact on this war and my confidebce in their support is not that high.
From accounts in Gerald Posner's Why America Slept when Abu Zubaydah (the highest ranking AQ member captured up to then) was captured (and severly wounded) in 2002, he initialy wouldn't relinquish any information to his US captors (under the influence of pian medication and truth serium as well as the withholding of said pain medication to cause discomfort). He was then moved to a safe house in Afghanistan that was set-up to look like a Suadi prison with the thought that when he thought he would be tortured by the Suadi's he would talk. Instead when two US operators of middle-eastern decent came into the room dressed as Saudi secruity forces Zubaydah was relieved and started talking immediatly saying he was happy to see them as he thought the Americans would torture and/or kill him. He then provided a private home number and cell number of a senior member of the Saudi royal family from memory. Saying "He will tell you what to do".The US interrorgators initial were skepticle as the prince mentioned was extermly westernized (to the extent of owning a horse that had won the Kentucky Derby and graduated from an American college). When the interrorgators returned they told him the prince had denied any knowledge of Zubaydah and that for disparaging the Saudi royal family he was to be executed. It is at this point that he started to reveal some of the secret's of 9/11. He claimed he worked under the direction of senoir Saudi and Pakistani officials. He spoke to them as if they would be the ones in trouble if they didn't take him seriuosly. He used the names of three Saudi royals and the head of the Pakistani airforce as individuals that worked with AQ. When the US brought these aligatons to the respective givernments they flatly denied that the individuals had any connection to AQ. Interestingly enough all four would be dead of natural causes or accidents within thirteen months. The first Saudi prince of a heart attack at the age of fortythree, the next day a second Saudi prince named by Zubaydah died when his car crashed (the only car involved) on his way to his cousins funeral who had died the day before. The final Saudi prince died a week later of "thirst" while traveling during the the height of the Saudi summer heat. He was twentyfive. Seven months later the head of the Pakistani airforce died when his aircraft crashed in Pakistan. Onboard were his wife and fifteen of his closet confidants, including two vice airmarshels, two air commodores, a group captain and a wing commander. The plane from the the airforce's VIP squadron had recently passed a fitness and maintenance inspection, the weather was clear .
It's interesting that all these individuals that could have co-oberated Zubaydah's claims are no longer with us.

[Rebel 7]

I think that we need to take a long hard look at our two "closest" allies in the war on terror: Pakistan and Suadi Arabia. In the last couple of weeks two Pakistanis have been arrested in Australia under terrorism charges and there are continueing attacks on westerners inside Saudi Arabia. I believe that the people in charge of these two countries are supporters on the GWOT, but it's the mid-level officials (gov/intel/military) that have the most impact on this war and my confidebce in their support is not that high.
From accounts in Gerald Posner's Why America Slept when Abu Zubaydah (the highest ranking AQ member captured up to then) was captured (and severly wounded) in 2002, he initialy wouldn't relinquish any information to his US captors (under the influence of pian medication and truth serium as well as the withholding of said pain medication to cause discomfort). He was then moved to a safe house in Afghanistan that was set-up to look like a Suadi prison with the thought that when he thought he would be tortured by the Suadi's he would talk. Instead when two US operators of middle-eastern decent came into the room dressed as Saudi secruity forces Zubaydah was relieved and started talking immediatly saying he was happy to see them as he thought the Americans would torture and/or kill him. He then provided a private home number and cell number of a senior member of the Saudi royal family from memory. Saying "He will tell you what to do".The US interrorgators initial were skepticle as the prince mentioned was extermly westernized (to the extent of owning a horse that had won the Kentucky Derby and graduated from an American college). When the interrorgators returned they told him the prince had denied any knowledge of Zubaydah and that for disparaging the Saudi royal family he was to be executed. It is at this point that he started to reveal some of the secret's of 9/11. He claimed he worked under the direction of senoir Saudi and Pakistani officials. He spoke to them as if they would be the ones in trouble if they didn't take him seriuosly. He used the names of three Saudi royals and the head of the Pakistani airforce as individuals that worked with AQ. When the US brought these aligatons to the respective givernments they flatly denied that the individuals had any connection to AQ. Interestingly enough all four would be dead of natural causes or accidents within thirteen months. The first Saudi prince of a heart attack at the age of fortythree, the next day a second Saudi prince named by Zubaydah died when his car crashed (the only car involved) on his way to his cousins funeral who had died the day before. The final Saudi prince died a week later of "thirst" while traveling during the the height of the Saudi summer heat. He was twentyfive. Seven months later the head of the Pakistani airforce died when his aircraft crashed in Pakistan. Onboard were his wife and fifteen of his closet confidants, including two vice airmarshels, two air commodores, a group captain and a wing commander. The plane from the the airforce's VIP squadron had recently passed a fitness and maintenance inspection, the weather was clear .
It's interesting that all these individuals that could have co-oberated Zubaydah's claims are no longer with us.

It has been known for a long time that Pakistan and Saudi Arabia have played an influential role in both the creation of the Taliban and Al Qaida. The US is trying to balance whether they should be kept as allies or whether they should be thrown in the "enemies" list. I think the US is using them as allies for now since its hands are full in Iraq and Afghanistan. The US is fully aware that Pakistan shipped weapons to fanatics like Gulbudeen, and used money to fund and train the Taliban and Al Qaida, but they aren't giving it too much attention since they do not want to annoy the Saudi and Pakistani government and lose them as "allies." Personally, I believe Pakistan should have been attacked right after the Taliban were thrown out of Afghanistan. Once Pakistan was done, the US would have basically destroyed a nest (Pakistan) known for training and funding terrorist. This would have resulted in less cross-border exchanges between Taliban soldiers and Afghan and American coalition soldiers, since the US could go into the NWFP and directly do searches and offensives to find Al Qaida and Taliban fighters roaming freely in those regions. I have a feeling that the US is going to suffer a lot of negative consequences for not punishing Pakistan for its direct involvement with Al Qaida and the Taliban. The Pakistani ISI has been known as a, "police by day, criminals by night" type of agency.

[786mine]

I think that we need to take a long hard look at our two "closest" allies in the war on terror: Pakistan and Suadi Arabia. In the last couple of weeks two Pakistanis have been arrested in Australia under terrorism charges and there are continueing attacks on westerners inside Saudi Arabia. I believe that the people in charge of these two countries are supporters on the GWOT, but it's the mid-level officials (gov/intel/military) that have the most impact on this war and my confidebce in their support is not that high.
From accounts in Gerald Posner's Why America Slept when Abu Zubaydah (the highest ranking AQ member captured up to then) was captured (and severly wounded) in 2002, he initialy wouldn't relinquish any information to his US captors (under the influence of pian medication and truth serium as well as the withholding of said pain medication to cause discomfort). He was then moved to a safe house in Afghanistan that was set-up to look like a Suadi prison with the thought that when he thought he would be tortured by the Suadi's he would talk. Instead when two US operators of middle-eastern decent came into the room dressed as Saudi secruity forces Zubaydah was relieved and started talking immediatly saying he was happy to see them as he thought the Americans would torture and/or kill him. He then provided a private home number and cell number of a senior member of the Saudi royal family from memory. Saying "He will tell you what to do".The US interrorgators initial were skepticle as the prince mentioned was extermly westernized (to the extent of owning a horse that had won the Kentucky Derby and graduated from an American college). When the interrorgators returned they told him the prince had denied any knowledge of Zubaydah and that for disparaging the Saudi royal family he was to be executed. It is at this point that he started to reveal some of the secret's of 9/11. He claimed he worked under the direction of senoir Saudi and Pakistani officials. He spoke to them as if they would be the ones in trouble if they didn't take him seriuosly. He used the names of three Saudi royals and the head of the Pakistani airforce as individuals that worked with AQ. When the US brought these aligatons to the respective givernments they flatly denied that the individuals had any connection to AQ. Interestingly enough all four would be dead of natural causes or accidents within thirteen months. The first Saudi prince of a heart attack at the age of fortythree, the next day a second Saudi prince named by Zubaydah died when his car crashed (the only car involved) on his way to his cousins funeral who had died the day before. The final Saudi prince died a week later of "thirst" while traveling during the the height of the Saudi summer heat. He was twentyfive. Seven months later the head of the Pakistani airforce died when his aircraft crashed in Pakistan. Onboard were his wife and fifteen of his closet confidants, including two vice airmarshels, two air commodores, a group captain and a wing commander. The plane from the the airforce's VIP squadron had recently passed a fitness and maintenance inspection, the weather was clear .
It's interesting that all these individuals that could have co-oberated Zubaydah's claims are no longer with us.

It has been known for a long time that Pakistan and Saudi Arabia have played an influential role in both the creation of the Taliban and Al Qaida. The US is trying to balance whether they should be kept as allies or whether they should be thrown in the "enemies" list. I think the US is using them as allies for now since its hands are full in Iraq and Afghanistan. The US is fully aware that Pakistan shipped weapons to fanatics like Gulbudeen, and used money to fund and train the Taliban and Al Qaida, but they aren't giving it too much attention since they do not want to annoy the Saudi and Pakistani government and lose them as "allies." Personally, I believe Pakistan should have been attacked right after the Taliban were thrown out of Afghanistan. Once Pakistan was done, the US would have basically destroyed a nest (Pakistan) known for training and funding terrorist. This would have resulted in less cross-border exchanges between Taliban soldiers and Afghan and American coalition soldiers, since the US could go into the NWFP and directly do searches and offensives to find Al Qaida and Taliban fighters roaming freely in those regions. I have a feeling that the US is going to suffer a lot of negative consequences for not punishing Pakistan for its direct involvement with Al Qaida and the Taliban. The Pakistani ISI has been known as a, "police by day, criminals by night" type of agency.

Rebel 7 as always you don't seem to know what the f*ck you are saying. So do us all a favor and quit posting lies about Pakistan. :bash:

[brigadeotg]

786Mine,
Maybe you can educate all of us as to what "lies" Rebel7 is talking about... :roll: As far as I can see, there's nothing factually wrong with what he is saying. So please do let us know since you pretend to know a lot more "Lies"... ooops!! rofl I mean information about Pakistan.

[786mine]

786Mine,
Maybe you can educate all of us as to what "lies" Rebel7 is talking about... :roll: As far as I can see, there's nothing factually wrong with what he is saying. So please do let us know since you pretend to know a lot more "Lies"... ooops!! rofl I mean information about Pakistan.

What I'm trying to say is this. Pakistan has always helped Afghanistan [for its interest in mind]. India has its army all over Pakistan's East, and Pakistan in order not to fight at two fronts has ALWAYS kept a policy of keeping a friendly relationship with the government of Afghanistan. Pakistan gives sea access to Afghanistan for FREE, all the goods that go to Afghanistan through Pakistan are tax free. The Afghani smuggle it back into Pakistan to make a quick buck. This hurts Pakistan's local economy, however, the governtment has kept quiet about it. It just recently decided to block all goods that were imported by Afghanistan back into Pakistan. There are over 3 million Afghani refugees in Pakistan, its the Pakistani government that pays for them. Most [but not all] of them live under the poverty line, some cause law and order problems others cause social problems. Some make top 1% of the ellite class. Drive European cars, live in mansions, and their money froms from drugs and smuggling. The Police is too corrupt to deal with them. Most of the Pakistanis want all these Afghanis to leave and go back to their country. But now they don't want to. It is these Afghanis who create problems in the NWFP region. They have weapons factories and they supply the Taliban and all the other malitia. They live good life in Pakistan, but its people like these that talk s**t about Pakistan. They disgust me.

[16 OBr SpN]

US is fully aware that Pakistan shipped weapons to fanatics like Gulbudeen,

Since when has the ISI been supporting Hekmatiyar?? :)

As far as I know, he actually had major problems with both the Pakistanis, and the Taliban. Although he's a Pashtu, his ambitions irritated many of the tribal leaders. That's why he ended up being in Iran. He has a very strong anti-Pakistan sentiments, because he thinks that Pakistan is the country which stands in the way of creation of Pushtunistan which he thinks would include not only southern Afghanistan, but the bordering areas of Pakistan.


Regards,
16 OBr SpN

[786mine]

US is fully aware that Pakistan shipped weapons to fanatics like Gulbudeen,

Since when has the ISI been supporting Hekmatiyar?? :)

As far as I know, he actually had major problems with both the Pakistanis, and the Taliban. Although he's a Pashtu, his ambitions irritated many of the tribal leaders. That's why he ended up being in Iran. He has a very strong anti-Pakistan sentiments, because he thinks that Pakistan is the country which stands in the way of creation of Pushtunistan which he thinks would include not only southern Afghanistan, but the bordering areas of Pakistan.


Regards,
16 OBr SpN

Yeah, I was thinking the same... hmmm.