The show goes on: British prisoner abuse

[Haiw]

who's next, the Polish? :|

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/tm_objectid=14199634%26method=full%26siteid=50143%26headline=shame%2dof%2dabuse%2dby%2dbrit%2dtroops-name_page.html

I'm kind of confused by the photo's though; maybe the paper made them black and white later, but they still look weird.

Anyway, time for you guys to start chasing eachothers tails about it.

[Rantanplan]

Tortune a prisoner is one thing. But making photos of it is realy stupid.

[bertfivesix]

Photos seem staged. The man's torso doesn't have a mark on it. No cuts, scrapes, bruises...nothing one would associate with almost beating a man to death. It just rubs me the wrong way - a sever beating wouldn't be that "clean". And the Mirror isn't exactly a paragon of quality newsreporting, mind you.

Then again, it may all be genuine.

[caleb]

In the article is stated that they have beaten a suspect to death..... :(

Those guys should get their ass ripped wide open. To torture and humiliate prisoners is the most disgusting and most cowardly thing next to rape.

Edit: Those pictures ARE real btw...

[weedman]

In the article is stated that they have beaten a suspect to death..... :(
I read in another article they beaten him for 8 hours and then threw him out off the truck. :(

[caleb]

Weeks after the pictures were taken, a captive was allegedly beaten to death in custody by men from the same Queen's Lancashire Regiment. It is also alleged a video was found of prisoners being thrown off a bridge.

sorry...missed that one

[MaxPayne]

In the article is stated that they have beaten a suspect to death..... :(

Those guys should get their ass ripped wide open. To torture and humiliate prisoners is the most disgusting and most cowardly thing next to rape.

Edit: Those pictures ARE real btw...

i dont know but these pictures seem to be fake everything is so clean

[M_S]

Punish them in the same way they acted!

[DeltaWhisky58]

In a similar thread I wrote

I wasn't going to join this thread, but my anger now forces it.

Incidents such as these happen everywhere, in every conflict. I have little doubt that the incidents pictured are genuine and not staged. However vile they are, we have to taken them in context - what would the hooded Iraqis do to Tommy Atkins if the proverbial boot was on the other foot.

OK, so this is not cricket, but why should it be seen by our former colonial friends as being so much worse than this week's pix from the US-run jail?

IMO, the worst incident of this entire episode would be the involvement of a female soldier in some of the US-origin pix, surely under Islam, this would be particularly degrading, although the urination incident would have to rank pretty highly.

No-one has a clean record here - I hope those responsible are dealt with severely just as Gen. Jackson and the US generals promise, but we also have to remember why this sort of thing happens. I am in no way trying to justify it, but out there in The Sandbox or in The Stan values are different.

Just remember one thing, if your country's troops have a clear conscience over their actions in similar conflicts over the past few decades feel free to criticise, otherwise stop being so hypocritical and zip it!

It has happened - the authorities are dealing with it - let lessons be learned.

[Marmot1]

who's next, the Polish? :|

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/tm_objectid=14199634%26method=full%26siteid=50143%26headline=shame%2dof%2dabuse%2dby%2dbrit%2dtroops-name_page.html

I'm kind of confused by the photo's though; maybe the paper made them black and white later, but they still look weird.

Anyway, time for you guys to start chasing eachothers tails about it.

Hmmm it might be dificult since polish soldiers do not run any prison and all suspected or caught terrorists/insurgents/bandits are passed to US forces or Iraqi police - depending on nature of their crime. We even dont have arests to keep them ;)

[Marmot1]

Both men fear the situation is worsening , with UK troops now seen as the enemy, rather than liberators.

One said: "I can't believe it has taken the Iraqis so long to fight back. If it had been me or my family, I'd have retaliated straightaway.

Hearts and minds yes???

[Javehn]

Wouldn't you say that the same fate goes to Polish troops also ? It's probably only matter of time ...

[Haiw]

It has happened - the authorities are dealing with it - let lessons be learned.
Well if it happened, okay, but still the photo's look somewhat...weird to me. I can't really explain it.

[caleb]

It has happened - the authorities are dealing with it - let lessons be learned.
Well if it happened, okay, but still the photo's look somewhat...weird to me. I can't really explain it.

Yeah, I miss the naked human pyramid, too :P

[Marmot1]

Wouldn't you say that the same fate goes to Polish troops also ? It's probably only matter of time ...


So far no... and I hope it would stay like this...

And BTW there were 40000 polish workers in iraq in 80's, we never before ocupied this country and we don't fighted them (well with some exceptions of course) so we have much better reputation betwen Iraqis. Also our troops were prepared for peacekeeping back in poland for half a year befere were send to Iraq - there were courses about iraqi culture, religion, basic words, human rights,and police job (riot control,checkpoint manning,arresting, etc... so I think I can risk and say that our soldiers are better prepared to this kind of job (stabilization) (while US and UK soldiers were prepared for combat) so far only one polish soldier was KIA by IED and one died in accident few were hurt but this wast before rotation,so troops that are now in iraq simply do not have a hate to iraqis, also avarage age in polish contingent is much higher and we don't have soldiers under 20 in Iraq. As you know usualy youger soldiers are hot blooded and more likely to act stupid. Aditionally it is prohibited in polish contingent to dring any alcocholic beverages even after duty. Like 10 were caught at the begining of first rotation while drinking beer and imediatelly were send back home,after that there was no further accident like this. AFAIK both US and UK soldiers can drink while off duty and as you probably know where you have ppl in sterss + alcohol + easy targets **** happens.

[Uninen]

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/mirror/may2004/2/2/00070B15-4CBB-1093-953F80BFB6FA0000.jpg
URINATED ON: A British soldier urinates on an Iraqi prisoner in a vile display of abuse.
The captive was beaten and hurled from a moving truck. Army chiefs are investigating.

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/mirror/may2004/3/2/00049B0E-4D57-1093-953F80BFB6FA0000.jpg
GUN TO HEAD: The terrified suspect cowers as a gun is placed at his head - then the rifle barrel was forced into his mouth.

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/mirror/may2004/4/2/000D1B05-4DC0-1093-953F80BFB6FA0000.jpg
BLEEDING: Blood seeps through the mask of battered suspect.

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/mirror/may2004/1/2/0009DF21-4C67-1093-953F80BFB6FA0000.jpg
BUTT IN GROIN: A rifle is cruelly jabbed in the young man's groin as his eight-hour nightmare goes on.

:slap:

[Marmot1]

EDITED since there was confusion on caleb intentions...

[Javehn]

As you know usualy youger soldiers are hot blooded and more likely to act stupid. Aditionally it is prohibited in polish contingent to dring any alcocholic beverages even after duty. Like 10 were caught at the begining of first rotation while drinking beer and imediatelly were send back home,after that there was no further accident like this. AFAIK both US and UK soldiers can drink while off duty and as you probably know where you have ppl in sterss + alcohol + easy targets **** happens.

Allready here i see bad point . The fact that US/UK troops use alcohol AFTER duty , and while not on "alertness" , can't heart anyone , as long they have limited ammounts , and they can't rampage aroud with gun shooting everyone in sight . And second point , the fact that Polish troops don't brake loose after their operations , isn't good thing . It's a bad thing , and i am talking on experience here . People have to relax in way one or another , and boose is an excellent way to do it . Luck of Polish troops , that they haven't got in serious **** as US troops would been . The more harsher control on soldier , and not letting him be just a human for even couple of hours , make soldiers snap . It can go several way , and it be the fact , that if Polish troops will have serious **** on their hands , they will do ****y things . Nothing to do and go against it , that's simple human nature .


And the fact , that Polish didn't had their **** yet , it's just a matter of time . All the things you said , they are buying Polish troops time , but in the end it will happend . And when the **** starts to happend to them , that kind of things would also happend .

They may have been going on even right now , but at list some soldiers are smarter and don't photograph themself .

[gilgoul]

Why not, everything could happen in this poor world.
A little thing though, the POW looks pretty "clean" after standing hours of abuse,fallin from a truck, being tortured, peed on,having jaw and nose broken and so on.
From that you can`t see any aparent bruise, cut losses of urine or fecal matter (because it`s a frequent thing, people ****ting themselves while under harsh stress, ad it is pretty normal.
and thet pics are definitely too "pro-but-try-to-look-amateur" to me.
Then, an other detail that bugs me, the text doesn`t talk about interrogation but pure gratuitous abuse, that is something that happens, but unless being a real dumbass you don`t take picture of it, unless it`s a serious interrogation, where you`re not going to pee on the suspect, since humiliation and SM behaviour doesn`t help your case.
Don`t know, just a thought.

[Uninen]

Well, maybe just because their fake pictures, they are in Black and White so that it would be harder to say they are... ;)

I could think that this is something let out by Americans (Pentagon) to show that "we arent only ones that do this"..

As the timing of these is with the real incedent involving those US troops.....

Maybe to "give less attention" (or to take it away from it....) to that abuse case? eh?

[Marmot1]

As you know usualy youger soldiers are hot blooded and more likely to act stupid. Aditionally it is prohibited in polish contingent to dring any alcocholic beverages even after duty. Like 10 were caught at the begining of first rotation while drinking beer and imediatelly were send back home,after that there was no further accident like this. AFAIK both US and UK soldiers can drink while off duty and as you probably know where you have ppl in sterss + alcohol + easy targets **** happens.

Allready here i see bad point . The fact that US/UK troops use alcohol AFTER duty , and while not on "alertness" , can't heart anyone , as long they have limited ammounts , and they can't rampage aroud with gun shooting everyone in sight . And second point , the fact that Polish troops don't brake loose after their operations , isn't good thing . It's a bad thing , and i am talking on experience here . People have to relax in way one or another , and boose is an excellent way to do it . Luck of Polish troops , that they haven't got in serious **** as US troops would been . The more harsher control on soldier , and not letting him be just a human for even couple of hours , make soldiers snap . It can go several way , and it be the fact , that if Polish troops will have serious **** on their hands , they will do ****y things . Nothing to do and go against it , that's simple human nature .


And the fact , that Polish didn't had their **** yet , it's just a matter of time . All the things you said , they are buying Polish troops time , but in the end it will happend .

Well actually we have had some serious **** but alcohol is not a way to deal with it... After siege of carbala CPA HQ (where polish and bulgarian forces fighted back al-Sadr supporters for few days 6 soldiers were send back home with "battlefield stress"

And again booze is not a best way to deal with stress. Remember last year when US soldiers after "work" while drunk visited Bagdad Zoo and tried to feed lion??? Lion ripped apart soldier fingers and one GI killed innocent animal with rifle (AFAIR soldiers were in civil clothes and came to zoo in Hummve) And can you image what **** could be if i.e. one of iraqis would offend them while they are drunk and armed? While you are drunk you loose control and when you have gun it is almost sure **** happens - belive me I know a little about this from my personal experience... aditionally when you are off duty but in a war zone you never know what enemy can do Polish bases are very often atacked by mortars or rockets and what it there is i.e alarm and everyone is ordered to depart? Sorry but drunk buddy with gun is more dangerous than enemy since he can accidently shoot you in the back when you dont expect that. Also reaction is much slover ,accuracy is ****y, you don't "feel the trigger" and have tendency to expose yourself. I had shoot guns while sober while little intoxicated and while being so drunk that I tried to load ammo wrong side and conclusion is NEVER AGAIN (never again more than 1 beer/hour ) Of course you can allow soldiers to drink after you are at safe area out of war zone but in Polish case soldiers are 24/7 in war zone and this is why this order was issued,so far it is working fine.

[caleb]

It has happened - the authorities are dealing with it - let lessons be learned.
Well if it happened, okay, but still the photo's look somewhat...weird to me. I can't really explain it.

Yeah, I miss the naked human pyramid, too :P

caleb one question???

Is this body pyramid (http://www.warfoto.com/bh165a.jpg) cool too? And if not tell my why??? On both you have naked ppl and on both there is body pyramid so tell me what is diference???

omgh..Marmot this was ment to be joke about those dudes who try to defend these actions. you got it all wrong.

[HELEX]

These pics show a small part of what happened, but I think there were more Incidents where no Camera was involved(Or they were smat enough not to take Pictures).
Much more... :roll:

[Marmot1]

Why not, everything could happen in this poor world.
A little thing though, the POW looks pretty "clean" after standing hours of abuse,fallin from a truck, being tortured, peed on,having jaw and nose broken and so on.
From that you can`t see any aparent bruise, cut losses of urine or fecal matter (because it`s a frequent thing, people ****ting themselves while under harsh stress, ad it is pretty normal.
and thet pics are definitely too "pro-but-try-to-look-amateur" to me.
Then, an other detail that bugs me, the text doesn`t talk about interrogation but pure gratuitous abuse, that is something that happens, but unless being a real dumbass you don`t take picture of it, unless it`s a serious interrogation, where you`re not going to pee on the suspect, since humiliation and SM behaviour doesn`t help your case.
Don`t know, just a thought.

There is also possibility that those pics were teken at "the begining"...

EDIT after thinking and looking again... There is possibility that those pics were taken not in Iraq but i.e somewhere else by i.e some anti war faggots and prepared and delivered to press to archive their goal (increase ant war feelings)

Why?

1.This t-shirt with iraqi flag seems strange
2.There is o landscape
3.Quality is rery good (resolution)
4.There is absolutely na marking so it is imposible to ID anybody nor any equipment.
5.This rifle looks to clean and to new for me (airsoft)
6.This guy do not looks very iraqi (I mean hes skin is to light coloured...)
7.What is the reason for providing evidence against you to press and confessing (except you are accused and you try to make a deal with prosecutor)

[Marmot1]

Edited see above!!!

but this sentence I would leave... ;)

Well it was [s]permskiOMON who joked this way... but on the other hand what you can expect from guy like spermi....

[Uninen]

Marmot1,

caleb is nothing like him.. :)

[Javehn]

Of course you can allow soldiers to drink after you are at safe area out of war zone but in Polish case soldiers are 24/7 in war zone and this is why this order was issued,so far it is working fine.

Ok , let's say we are agree on that point .
But why this kind of behavior couldn't be happend to Polish troops , or on that case , any other force in Iraq ? The fact is , that until some time British troops were considered as a model force in Iraq . There is even letter sent by British troops , that they feel that US troops work is too much harsh and wrong . And now this happends all of a sudden . And that lonely case projecting on entire British force on Iraq . It's safe to say that from now , they will not get treated as before by locals .

Exactly the same can happend even in Polish forces . You will have the majority of soldiers that act as they should , but you will also always have a group of people , that would act differently .

And on drinking , i was talking on kind of "allowed ration" , that soldier do only inside the base after duty , when they are not on "high allert" and cannot get out . Don't get me wrong , tat's my personal bellief , it's also prohibitted in our army . But instead our soldiers had almost every second weekend at home , where they could do all the "relaxating" ;) . Troops in Iraq apparantly can't do it , and some day it can backfire .

[caleb]

thanks Uninen, but I must admit that this joke was

a) Bad

b) Expressed in a way that left room for confusion.

[Marmot1]

Marmot1,

caleb is nothing like him.. :)

Yeah I just inderstood his intentions in wrong way... :hug: :hug:

[Herrmannek]

Of course you can allow soldiers to drink after you are at safe area out of war zone but in Polish case soldiers are 24/7 in war zone and this is why this order was issued,so far it is working fine.

Ok , let's say we are agree on that point .
But why this kind of behavior couldn't be happend to Polish troops , or on that case , any other force in Iraq ? The fact is , that until some time British troops were considered as a model force in Iraq . There is even letter sent by British troops , that they feel that US troops work is too much harsh and wrong . And now this happends all of a sudden . And that lonely case projecting on entire British force on Iraq . It's safe to say that from now , they will not get treated as before by locals .

Exactly the same can happend even in Polish forces . You will have the majority of soldiers that act as they should , but you will also always have a group of people , that would act differently .

And on drinking , i was talking on kind of "allowed ration" , that soldier do only inside the base after duty , when they are not on "high allert" and cannot get out . Don't get me wrong , tat's my personal bellief , it's also prohibitted in our army . But instead our soldiers had almost every second weekend at home , where they could do all the "relaxating" ;) . Troops in Iraq apparantly can't do it , and some day it can backfire .

There are other ways of relaxing than drinking :)...I'm still living example of it... :)

[Javehn]

There are other ways of relaxing than drinking ...I'm still living example of it...

I think that one is kinda problematic ... :roll: Unless they use each other for that kind of relaxation . And self service doesn't works very good .

[Herrmannek]

There are other ways of relaxing than drinking ...I'm still living example of it...

I think that one is kinda problematic ... :roll: Unless they use each other for that kind of relaxation . And self service doesn't works very good .

Man ever heard about chesmates? :)

[DeltaWhisky58]

Well, maybe just because their fake pictures, they are in Black and White so that it would be harder to say they are... ;)

I could think that this is something let out by Americans (Pentagon) to show that "we arent only ones that do this"..

As the timing of these is with the real incedent involving those US troops.....

Maybe to "give less attention" (or to take it away from it....) to that abuse case? eh?

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with you. The British unit supposedly involved in these incidents was already under investigation for a death in custody before the news of the incidents in the US-run prison broke into the headlines.

We have to admit to ourselves that such incidents go on in situations such as this, and I'm pretty sure that if Dutch, Polish, Czech, Spanish, Japanese, Italian, Australian, New Zealand, Lithuanian, Salvadorean (apolgies if I've missed nations out) etc. forces were running jails full of Iraqi prisoners, further such incidents would come to light - this is after all the real world, and the mates/buddies of our over-worked soldiers are being killed out there by the alleged associates of these prisoners.

Statement from General Sir Michael Jackson, Chief of the General Staff, i.e. No. 1 in The British Army


"I am aware of the allegations which have been made today of abuse of prisoners by British soldiers in Iraq. If proven, not only is such appalling conduct clearly unlawful, but it also contravene's the British Army's high standard of conduct. The allegations are already under investigation. Again, if proven, the perpetrators are not fit to wear the Queen's uniform and they have besmirched the Army's good name and conduct. Most emphatically, the British Army should not be judged by the reprehensible ill-discipline of a few soldiers, who by this shameful behaviour have let down the tens of thousands of British soldiers who have worked, and still work in difficult and dangerous conditions in the most commendable way; in particular in Iraq, where their sole purpose is to help the people to their new and better future."

This has hapened in conflicts before, and it will unfortunately happen again. This is one of tha factors we have to accept in these days of 24hr. front-line media coverage of international events.

[big80a2]

this is bad ****....
but it looks a bit fake....
the text from Mirror says:

As we took him back he was getting a beating. He was hit with batons on the knees, fingers, toes, elbows, and head.



but when you look at the pics you see so clean knees for example...
*the text say the photos where taken after the above mentioned*

what also bothers me is that the guy is in every photo siting to "straight"
when being beaten you often crallup with your back towards your enemy, but it's a photo so you can't really tell.

The photo eith the guy hitting him with the gun is also a bit strange...
it looks like the soldier is wearing a backpack while in the truck :roll:

IMO these things should be punished hard....
but this case looks a bit to "good" to be true

[gk404]

IMHO this is fake and a bad attemept at that...

Floor is spotless, and "prisoner" has not a single bruise on him... not to mention all the other things already stated

[wormie]

It's a shame you guys only catch the articles about how they were tortured and thrown off trucks but seem to skip over the ones about how they planted road side bombs and launched mortar rounds killing lots of soldiers and civilians. Also a shame that you guys missed those photos from Nasiriyah last year... the ones with dead US soldiers some looked to have been executed and the Iraqi smiling over the body. Or what about the Blackwater guys hanging from a bridge in Fallujah after being mutilated. Or the ones where the two US soldiers were dragged down the street after bein ambushed. Stupid ****ing hippies.

[Seoulstriker]

somehow i find it hard to believe that these things happened. why would you take photos of it happening?

[Haiw]

My take at it; it seems like the event itself has happened (especially when you see the MODs reaction), but I put serious doubt at these photos...

[Jurgen]

if it's real... it's SICK!
if it's fake...that's even SICKER!
http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/sauer/angry-smiley-050.gif

[usa320]

Just as disgusting as the last torture photos.

I think they need to think twice before they put some soccer-mom, one weekend a month reservist with a hunger for power in chage of a prison again.

[Fargin]

somehow i find it hard to believe that these things happened. why would you take photos of it happening?If you're a big enough idiot it disgrace your uniform and your country, why wouldn't you be a big enough idiot to documentate it with a camera.

War is not for fragile minds.

[obd]

Uhh, according to the MOD these pics are quite real and have been known about prior......ands its been under investigation....at least in some reports they (meaning both the US and Britain) were trying to keep a lid on these cases for some time and running investigation but after the pics went public they made a bruhaha for public consumption...........

I think if these pics were fake then the MOD and Pentagon would not have invested so much effort investigating..... Plus these pictures match testimony from Iraqi's who were held and released from detention.......I see no reason for these pics to be fake....at this point the evidence STRONLGY points to them being real..........

By the way, the reason there were no bruises on the dude being pissed on is because he was thrown out of the truck and beaten AFTER that picture was taken......and lets not forget the buttstock to the genitals which is highly similar to Americans attaching electrodes.......sick and twisted ****** torture.....absolutely discusting and perverted.........

The American and British soldiers responsible probably will have the blood of thier freinds on thier hands in the near future as it will cause mutch more violence and attacks and only add to the threats and problems.... I hope these British and American soldiers realize this and have to live with it for the rest of thier moronic lives........in jail hopefully......

[martinexsquaddie]

uh that maybe another set of pics.
the trucks an old four tonner Qlr used Dafs in Iraq with the canvas top off
Blokes wearing a floopy hat squaddiers wear berats or helmets on ops flopy for dossing in camp
NO body armour
wrong belt order
no sling on rifle
prisoner wearing a nice new shiny iraqi flag t- shirt

[csqnsas]

I agree with the 99% who agree that the photos are sick and know that those conducting the torture have (will) be brought to justice , but..

As has been said:

Marmot 1


1.This t-shirt with iraqi flag seems strange
2.There is o landscape
3.Quality is rery good (resolution)
4.There is absolutely na marking so it is imposible to ID anybody nor any equipment.
5.This rifle looks to clean and to new for me (airsoft)
6.This guy do not looks very iraqi (I mean hes skin is to light coloured...)
7.What is the reason for providing evidence against you to press and confessing (except you are accused and you try to make a deal with prosecutor)


and

Marin exsquaddie


the trucks an old four tonner Qlr used Dafs in Iraq with the canvas top off
Blokes wearing a floopy hat squaddiers wear berats or helmets on ops flopy for dossing in camp
NO body armour
wrong belt order
no sling on rifle
prisoner wearing a nice new shiny iraqi flag t- shirt


Also reported that


They believe the rifle is an SA80 mk 1 - which was not issued to troops in Iraq.

They say soldiers in Iraq wore berets or hard hats - and not floppy hats as in the photos.

They also believe the wrong type of Bedford truck is shown in the background - a type never deployed in Iraq.


I personnaly think regarding the photos - look how clean everything is, and how much crap ,dust, empty rat pack , empty boxes of ammo are lways left lying in the back of mil vehicles during exercise not only on Ops- Or the MTO of the unit is a feared that much.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3677311.stm for more info

[Argyll]

I'm also surprised that the photograpers amongst you have noy picked up on a few other points.

Most squaddies carry Digi Cams these days

A black and white photo is usually done by proffesional snappers,as B/W are "impact" photo's,unlike colour.

Have any of you who gone into a Photographist outlet and asked for a Black and white spool/35mm 400ASA.......they are pretty expensive,not something your run of the mill squaddie would go and ask for.

Developing is also costly,most squaddies want their fanny photo's right away,hence the Digital cams.

Having just returned from Iraq,a day on the ground and your weapon will gather dust,and lose the sheen.

I'm tending to believe they are indeed fake,and that they are posed,and that they are done by some pissed of squaddies,wanting some payback.
Comparing them to the ones released by the US,they are like chalk and cheese,the British Squaddie goes for the simple things in life,like full technicolour all out glory .........not Black and white.

However it does not detract from the acts carried out previously reported,several months back,I find it amazing that these pics and the story behind them suddenly "appear" a year later.They reek of "set up".
I'm inclined to go with media manipulation on a very old story

[weedman]

Even when they are faked, many human rights organizations like Amnesty believe that this is just a grain of sand in the desert, and I believe this also.

[Haiw]

I'm also surprised that the photograpers amongst you have noy picked up on a few other points.

Most squaddies carry Digi Cams these days

A black and white photo is usually done by proffesional snappers,as B/W are "impact" photo's,unlike colour.

Have any of you who gone into a Photographist outlet and asked for a Black and white spool/35mm 400ASA.......they are pretty expensive,not something your run of the mill squaddie would go and ask for.

Developing is also costly,most squaddies want their fanny photo's right away,hence the Digital cams.

Having just returned from Iraq,a day on the ground and your weapon will gather dust,and lose the sheen.

I'm tending to believe they are indeed fake,and that they are posed,and that they are done by some pissed of squaddies,wanting some payback.
Comparing them to the ones released by the US,they are like chalk and cheese,the British Squaddie goes for the simple things in life,like full technicolour all out glory .........not Black and white.

However it does not detract from the acts carried out previously reported,several months back,I find it amazing that these pics and the story behind them suddenly "appear" a year later.They reek of "set up".
I'm inclined to go with media manipulation on a very old story
Yeah the black and white made my eyebrows raise as well. Besides, the photo where he hits the guy on his ********s also looks very....posed.
If the accident indeed happened I think the photo's were posed...maybe to spice up the article?

[Argyll]

Even when they are faked, many human rights organizations like Amnesty believe that this is just a grain of sand in the desert, and I believe this also.

If you were told the moon was made of cheese would you believe that too?

As I have posted on several threads Abuse of POW's is nothing new.


Tell me Weedman,what was your view on the Parading of the US soldier on Al Jazeera last week?

What was your view on the Parading of the US POW's during the war last year?

[weedman]

If you were told the moon was made of cheese would you believe that too?
If many reliable scientists would tell me this with good reasons...



Tell me Weedman,what was your view on the Parading of the US soldier on Al Jazeera last week?

What was your view on the Parading of the US POW's during the war last year?Due to the geneva convention I have to condemn both the parading of US soldiers and of Iraqis.

[mack pl]

And BTW there were 40000 polish workers in iraq in 80's, we never before ocupied this country and we don't fighted them (well with some exceptions of course) so we have much better reputation betwen Iraqis.Nie zapominaj o naszych wojskach w czasie II WŚ na północy Iraku...Don't forget about ours troops in WW II in northern Iraq.

[Haiw]

Oh and one more thing about the photos....look at the 'poses', and from which point the photo's are made and all (and with extreme care not to show a face). Looks too much like a professional documentary photographer.

[cut]

doubt has been cast of those photos

the gun used in the photos is an SA80 Mk1, the SA80s in Iraq are all newer versions.

SA80Mk1 are **** in sandy conditions remember.

for more read this thread

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13735

[mack pl]

doubt has been cast of those photos

the gun used in the photos is an SA80 Mk1, the SA80s in Iraq are all newer versions.

SA80Mk1 are **** in sandy conditions remember.

for more read this thread

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13735Well, you have few thousands soldiers in Iraq, so maybe some of them using old versions still :|

[Javehn]

Ok , i think i know the deal .
It's Mossad art students secret new plot , to embarrass British troops , and to gain control over Iraq and British Tea supplies .

[mack pl]

Ok , i think i know the deal .
It's Mossad art students secret new plot , to embarrass British troops , and to gain control over Iraq and British Tea supplies .Yeah, Jews are always guilty :roll: ...(antisemits j.k) :oops:

[One?]

why doesnt the US allow the Iraqi council members to enter abu ghraib, red cross, or even publish the names of those in captivity.

I was watching CNN (yes not a good news source) but they said (acording to one of the soldeirs) that an iraqi died under interrogation. He was put on bags of ice for 24 hours and later the medics gave him a fake ID and carried him out on a stretcher.

Former iraqi prisoners have complained of torture (prior to the pictures being published but no one believed them). Members of the iraqi council wanted to inspect the prison but they were denied access.

[TacoDelRio]

HEY those are 1337 4irs0ft3rz!

Of course, Iraqi torture-ers don't get "flamed" for doing their deeds to Americans, British, etc.

Tisk tisk. Whatever. It's war.

DB

[gk404]

The worst part of this whole thing is that these photos have made the rounds on newscasts and newspapers in the Arab world. They are going to be used as justification for torture, next time a British trooper finds himself a POW. If these were "propaganda" by antiwar activists then they need to find out who, and have them tried for treason...

[Argyll]

The worst part of this whole thing is that these photos have made the rounds on newscasts and newspapers in the Arab world. They are going to be used as justification for torture, next time a British trooper finds himself a POW. If these were "propaganda" by antiwar activists then they need to find out who, and have them tried for treason...

Sod that mate,I'd much rather use the photo's descriptions on what to do with those fokers!

All these squaddies need to do is appear on TV disguised and back up their claims.It is so easy to verify

It was the same before the ground war started their was an alleged Republican Guard officer who claimed his unit had been given "Special weapons" to use against the Coalition,this turned out to be a load of bollox,as I'm sure these "staged " well presented Black and White(in the 21st century rofl )will be proved to be fake

[shrek]

Look at the news guys. The press agencies are backing off their claims and saying that the weapons, clothing and gear of the Brits is all wrong. The photos were most probably staged by someone inside Brit to embarrass Blair and what not! Figures!

[afrographX]

It was the same before the ground war started their was an alleged Republican Guard officer who claimed his unit had been given "Special weapons" to use against the Coalition,this turned out to be a load of bollox,as I'm sure these "staged " well presented Black and White(in the 21st century rofl )will be proved to be fake


Yes must be a fake, like one man's claim ( if I'm not wrong it was the president, please correct me when it was not him) that the Iraq would have wmd. :P Obvious that it was a fake, but everybody wanted to blieve it because it justed fitted into a certain view of the world and responded to a certain general feeling present in those days. :D