Some marines angry over deal to pull out of Fallujah

[seruriermarshal]

Some marines angry over deal to pull out of Fallujah

CAMP FALLUJAH, Iraq (AFP) Apr 30, 2004
A decision to let former members of Saddam's army handle security in Fallujah has infuriated some of the US Marines who pulled back from the powderkeg city after weeks of violent battles.
"Now it's going to get worse," said Lance Corporal Julius Wright, 20, one of the marines who withdrew from positions on the frontlines of the embattled Iraqi city that had been under a US siege since April 5.

The marines started a gradual withdrawal to a wider perimeter Friday as the first 200 members of the new Fallujah Brigade moved into parts of the city.

US commanders hope the Iraqi force, made up mainly of former members of ousted dictator Saddam Hussein's disbanded army, will be able to restore some form of law and order to Fallujah, a city partly controlled by anti-coalition forces.

Senior US officers acknowledge they are not fully convinced the deal will work out, and that Marines are prepared to retake their frontline positions if it doesn't.

Many of the grunts, on the other hand firmly believe the idea is doomed.

"Honestly, I don't think they're going to be able to do it," said Corporal Elias Chavez, 28.

"We had the insurgents cordoned off, they couldn't go anywhere, we had a chance to get them."

"Now they can flee wherever they want, and we're still going to have to deal with them," said Chavez, expressing doubts the new force, largely made up of Fallujah residents, would apprehend anti-coalition fighters.

"A lot of them have ties to anti-coalition forces," he said in reference to the Fallujah Brigade.

Colonel John Coleman, chief of staff of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force, said it is not necessarily a bad thing having some of the more moderate insurgents switch sides. "We'd actively reach out to those people," he told reporters at Camp Fallujah, the main marine base just outside the city.

Some of the grunts who camped out for weeks in abandoned factories and warehouses on the outskirts of the powderkeg city, coming under fire daily, feel they spilt blood in vain.

Scores of Americans died in fighting in Fallujah, which also killed hundreds of Iraqis.

Now that the marines are pulling out without having defeated the insurgents, the deployment "was a waste of time, of resources and of lives," said Chavez.

"Everyone feels the same way, especially those who know someone who was killed," he said.

Wright agreed.

"We pulled out when we should of went in."


I don't know , whose idea stop attack ? It's a foolish plan !

:fork:

[Trident-za]

I can understand how frustrated they must feel... but at the same time there is the possibility of this being a good thing. A BBC article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3673615.stm makes some good points.


The threats from US commanders to go in and clear out the town have subsided. And with good reason. Large numbers of civilians have already been killed there.

Further heavy fighting would have risked, not just additional loss of life, but potentially the spread of similar insurgencies to other towns.

In a month that has seen escalating US casualties and the first real signs of discontent in the opinion polls back home, President Bush probably would prefer to find a way out from Falluja that avoids a major escalation.

Falluja has thus clearly demonstrated the limits to the application of military force in Iraq.

Overwhelming firepower is all very well, but in nation-building, it is the consequences of the use of force that matter.



And, at the risk of sounding a bit callous, the opinions of the individual Marines are worth less than the strategic goals of the coalition. I am not certain that this move will work out, but its worth a try.... if only for the political "brownie points" it will earn the US.


The US withdrawal could be seen as a retreat, though this agreement may be an honourable way to avoid a potential catastrophe.

Nonetheless, it is still a shaky deal at best. If it works, it may be a formula that could be repeated elsewhere.

If so, it would certainly underscore what many people see as the initial US error of rapidly disbanding Saddam Hussein's military machine.

But if it does not work, then the Falluja problem will be posed again in the starkest of terms.

[WanderingNomad]

It'll be interesting to see how the old Saddam general will play out.

[Uninen]

It'll be interesting to see how the old Saddam general will play out.

Im thinking of possibility of he and his men actually joining the "resistance" once they get on site and get their hardware.... but we will see....

That is if the "resistance" in Fallujah has "Saddams secret service men" fighting in it.... but if it just the Sadr's own militia, i think that theyir be more than happy to kill em all.

[Khabbi]

Im sure not all of saddams generals were wankers , refusing orders under saddam usualy led to torture and the murder of your family .

[Trident-za]

Im thinking of possibility of he and his men actually joining the "resistance" once they get on site and get their hardware.... but we will see....



Thats a scary thought....

[Haiw]

And, at the risk of sounding a bit callous, the opinions of the individual Marines are worth less than the strategic goals of the coalition.
True...in fact, though it may sound a bit harsh, even the lives of individual Marines are worth less than the strategic goals of the coalition. That's war.
To be honest I don't know what's gonna become of this whole 'Fallujah-thing' now. It could turn out as a big cluster**** or one of the best decisions ever made. Either way at least the short-term effect will be less bodybags going home on planes (and that was certainly part of the consideration). I suppose only time will tell... :|

[Argyll]

It'll be interesting to see how the old Saddam general will play out.

Im thinking of possibility of he and his men actually joining the "resistance" once they get on site and get their hardware.... but we will see....

That is if the "resistance" in Fallujah has "Saddams secret service men" fighting in it.... but if it just the Sadr's own militia, i think that theyir be more than happy to kill em all.

Sadr's Militia are mainly in Najaf,it's Foreign Insurgents who are cornered in Fallujah,and some die hard fedayeen.
Fallujah isn't over by a long shot.........keep watchin this space ;)

[MetalBoy]

I think this strategy is maybe meant to fail. When the Fallujah Brigade led by this General fails to bring order to the city the US might be seen by Iraqis to have more legitimacy to come back and clean out the place. The Americans can say to the Iraqis "Look we gave you guys the chance to solve this problem and you guys didn't so the last option availible now is to take care of this mess ourselves. Your way didn't work so let us do it our way. But thanks for trying anyways ;) ."

[Trident-za]

I think this strategy is maybe meant to fail. When the Fallujah Brigade led by this General fails to bring order to the city the US might be seen by Iraqis to have more legitimacy to come back and clean out the place. The Americans can say to the Iraqis "Look we gave you guys the chance to solve this problem and you guys didn't so the last option availible now is to take care of this mess ourselves. Your way didn't work so let us do it our way. But thanks for trying anyways ;) ."

You might be right.... it would be quite something, though, if this actually works :roll:

[seruriermarshal]

I think this strategy is maybe meant to fail. When the Fallujah Brigade led by this General fails to bring order to the city the US might be seen by Iraqis to have more legitimacy to come back and clean out the place. The Americans can say to the Iraqis "Look we gave you guys the chance to solve this problem and you guys didn't so the last option availible now is to take care of this mess ourselves. Your way didn't work so let us do it our way. But thanks for trying anyways ;) ."

I'm afraid there will have a Iraq base , then attack allies . I hope allies troops ready base and weapon ......

[WanderingNomad]

It looks like this Fallujah stand-off isn't really over anytime soon?

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/world/8568365.htm


As the U.S. military abandons Fallujah, Iraqis proclaim victory

FALLUJAH, Iraq - (KRT) - Masked men carrying rocket-propelled grenade launchers and waving Iraqi flags rode through the deserted streets of Fallujah on Saturday, claiming victory in the withdrawal this week of U.S. Marines after a month-long siege of the city.

A day after the U.S.-led coalition announced it was handing over most security matters to a popular general from the former Iraqi regime, Fallujah residents tentatively stepped out of shuttered homes to find demolished buildings, uprooted palm trees, rows of shelled villas and car windows riddled with bullet holes.

They took comfort in what they did not see: Americans.

"The Americans have been pushed out by true soldiers, heroic men," said Shaker Adnan, 35, who wore the burgundy beret and dark camouflage of the Fallujah Brigade, the new proxy security force assembled by the coalition. "If the Americans were men, they would have never retreated. This triumph came from God."

Of course what he says is BS, but I'm not sure about this: are members of this new Fallujah brigade supposed to reason that way?


"This is a big win for us," Chechan said of the Marines' withdrawal. "Baghdad fell in two days, but Fallujah fought the Americans for a month. The siege was miserable, but we hope things get better in the next few days. The only thing we hope is that the Americans keep out of our town."

Seems like a new resistance myth is born ... until now they've prevailed against the occupiers/liberators.

And didn't the US government say at one point that they wouldn't NOT negotiate with terrorists? How could those past weeks be described then?

[American Patriot]

"The Americans have been pushed out by true soldiers, heroic men," said Shaker Adnan, 35, who wore the burgundy beret and dark camouflage of the Fallujah Brigade, the new proxy security force assembled by the coalition. "If the Americans were men, they would have never retreated. This triumph came from God."

Definately not a good Iraqi.

[Mark Sman]

Reality on the ground often doesn't mesh with policy in the palace.

Get used to it.

[seruriermarshal]

I don't know , why U.S. soldiers die in this war ? They for win , but now U.S. troops hope stop attack Fallujah . It's a so bad message , if stop attack must when win ......