The USMC's Stinger .30-06 machine gun

[Jabroni]

And i thought the MG42/3 was a badass?, This ones ROF was around 1,200/1,400 RPM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/1124/anm2stingerqi0.jpg

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/3578/stinger3006dn7.jpg

(And no, Im not going to photoshop it!)

[Hippo]

thank god youre not going to shop it...

[StukaJr]

I was going to say it's gutted up from a .30 cal and found this:


The Marine who created that was Tony Stein with the 28th Marines on Iwo .Tony was a toolmaker from Dayton Ohio and he cannibalized a .30 cal machine gun from a fighter plane he was later killed on Iwo and received the MOA .

September 30, 1921 - March 1, 1945
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/gutkowski/455px-Stein_T.jpg

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while serving with Company A, First Battalion, Twenty-Eighth Marines, Fifth Marine Division, in action against enemy Japanese forces on Iwo Jima, in the Volcano Island, 19 February 1945. The first man of his unit to be on station after hitting the beach in the initial assault, Corporal Stein, armed with a personally improvised aircraft-type weapon, provided rapid covering fire as the remainder of his platoon attempted to move into position and, when his comrades were stalled by a concentrated machine-gun and mortar barrage, gallantly stood upright and exposed himself to the enemy's view, thereby drawing the hostile fire to his own person and enabling him to observe the location of the furiously blazing hostile guns. Determined to neutralize the strategically placed weapons, he boldly charged the enemy pillboxes one by one and succeeded in killing twenty of the enemy during the furious single-handed assault. Cool and courageous under the merciless hail of exploding shells and bullets which fell on all sides, he continued to deliver the fire of his skillfully improvised weapon at a tremendous rate of speed which rapidly exhausted his ammunition. Undaunted, he removed his helmet and shoes to expedite his movements on ran back to the beach for additional ammunition, making a total of eight trips under intense fire and carrying or assisting a wounded man back each time. Despite the unrelenting savagery and confusion of battle, he rendered prompt assistance to his platoon whenever the unit was in position, directing the fire of a half-track against a stubborn pillbox until he had effected the ultimate destruction of the Japanese fortification. Later in the day, although his weapon was twice shot from his hands, he personally covered the withdrawal of his platoon to the company position. Stouthearted and indomitable, Corporal Stein, by his aggressive initiative, sound judgment and unwavering devotion to duty in the face of terrific odds, contributed materially to the fulfillment of his mission, and his outstanding valor throughout the bitter hours of conflict sustained and enhanced the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.

But you really can't have that high rate of fire in a machine gun that does not allow to quickly swap the barrels - short bursts are a must!

[Robbee]

Thanks for that interesting post, StukaJr. It's sad that this important story was omitted by Jabroni in his rush to start yet another thread.

[ReggayMC]

Very interesting! a true hero right there

[gaijinsamurai]

I read about Tony Stein and his "Stinger gun" during the battle for Iwo Jima. Unfortunately, Cpl. Stein was killed in the fighting.
Rest in Peace.

[Hollis]

Looks like a 1919 conversion, If it is, it's rate of fire is over rated. Browning were not that fast. Instead of pushing the round from the belt into the chamber like the M60/MG42/etc, it would grab the round, pull it back, round would drop down and then the bolt would push it into the chamber. The MG 42 design was much faster.

[Hydro]

I believe it was a conversion of a .30 AN-M2 from a fighter, which did have a very high rate of fire.

[onefast93z28]

IT was a converted AN-M2. I believe they orginally got them out of crashed Dauntless dive bombers (they were the twin tail guns).

[James]

Looks like a 1919 conversion, If it is, it's rate of fire is over rated. Browning were not that fast. Instead of pushing the round from the belt into the chamber like the M60/MG42/etc, it would grab the round, pull it back, round would drop down and then the bolt would push it into the chamber. The MG 42 design was much faster.

In 1995 I had the honor of meeting Mitchell Paige, and he described modifications that they made to their water cooled M1917s, milling away parts of the bolt or something, changing springs, etc. that got their rate of fire up to about 1200 rpm.

[Hydro]

Men at war tend to be an ingenious lot. I've heard an example of an M113 crew in Vietnam "modifying" their M60 to exceed 1,000 rounds per minute.

[super_noodle]

And one of the men in Band of Brothers converting his M1 Garand to fire full auto.

[Mike Keenan]

And one of the men in Band of Brothers converting his M1 Garand to fire full auto.
I think it was Forrest Guth.

[Hydro]

I met him. Very nice chap.

[CptBertz]

hmm i wonder how u get an M1 to go full auto? man that would have some kick to it

[Spinal Tap 84]

I think it was Forrest Guth.
Excellent memory.

Here is the passage from page 286 of Band of Brothers:
"Speirs liked Guth, thought he was a good soldier, and was appreciative of his ability to keep all his weapons in prime condition. He especially appreciated the way Guth could take a file and work on the tripper [sic] housing of an M-1 and make it fully automatic. (Winters got one of those Guth specials. He kept it and, when he set off for the Korean War, took it with him. Unfortunately, Guth cannot remember today how he did it.)"

Good thread on the Stinger. It is funny because I just had an argument about the existence of the Stinger with a friend of mine a few days ago. Luckily I was able to locate that first picture on another forum and the Congressional Medal of Honor citation of Corporal Stein to prove to him that such a thing did exsist. My friend said that the improvised "ammo can" in that first picture looks like the speaker housing for one of the radios (forget which he said) our G.I.'s used.

Also I am sure you all noticed Corporal Stein's jump wings. He was likely a Marine Paratrooper who was transfered to the 5th Marine Division after the 1st Marine Parachute Regement was disbanded in 1944. Here is some quick reading on the unit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramarines

[Chairborne Ranger]

A episode of "Shootout" on the History Channel covers Stein's one-man assault with his Stinger. The show mentions that the Browning was cannibalized from aircraft used for spares and a small run of the Stinger was produced. The story of Stein's bravery was awesome, and it was one of the best episodes of the Shootout series IMO.

[super_noodle]

hmm i wonder how u get an M1 to go full auto? man that would have some kick to it
I think he filled down something in the working parts.

[velvet-cream]

And one of the men in Band of Brothers converting his M1 Garand to fire full auto.

M-1 Carbine or Garand? I think a full auto Garand is a bit much, considering its calibre and small magazine capacity.

[super_noodle]

M-1 Carbine or Garand? I think a full auto Garand is a bit much, considering its calibre and small magazine capacity.
Read the book mate ,Winters even says that he would of wanted one in Korea but he didnt no how to do it.

[TheWatcher]

For what reason ?

[Hollis]

In 1995 I had the honor of meeting Mitchell Paige, and he described modifications that they made to their water cooled M1917s, milling away parts of the bolt or something, changing springs, etc. that got their rate of fire up to about 1200 rpm.


WOW, thanks James, that is a impressive amount of fire. One problem, maybe, would be able to feed the beast. The M60 had a spare barrel so did the MG42 that was fairly easy to change and dump in to water(if creek was available). The 1919 Barrel does not change so easy. I am not sure if a water cool jacket would help.

I think it would all be in the machine gunner control in bursting the weapon.

I'll have to read more to see why. I have built a semi auto conversion from a 1919. The 1919 may have been designed to be slower because of logistical reasons. Infantry does not have semi trucks following them carrying ammo. I read somewheres that even German Machine gunners were rationed ammo. Eastern winter front, german gunners where limited to 200 rds/day.

Imagine if ammo supply was not a problem.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k226/Hollis6475/DSCN0053.jpg

and a dummy,

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k226/Hollis6475/MG42.jpg

[Anthony91]

I hope to god Jabroni lives up to his word...

[Robbee]

Being an aircraft mounted gun, there is also the cooling factor of traveling through the air at 200mph+.

It takes a real Jabroni to look at cyclic rate of fire figure, scream "badass" and start yet another thread. :roll:

[Chops]

I hope to god Jabroni lives up to his word...

Ah he just got binned I'm afraid. Multiple accounts. A great loss.

[digrar]

It was like putting down a kitten. :-(

[Roy Batty]

It was like putting down a kitten. :-(

......a retarded kitten.

[Anthony91]

Woah, be careful what you wish for...:D

[drinking das boot]

edited cuz im dumb

[drinking das boot]

WOW, thanks James, that is a impressive amount of fire. One problem, maybe, would be able to feed the beast. The M60 had a spare barrel so did the MG42 that was fairly easy to change and dump in to water(if creek was available). The 1919 Barrel does not change so easy. I am not sure if a water cool jacket would help.



theyre talking about the 1917

water cooled=20,000 rounds without a barrel change no problem

[Hollis]

theyre talking about the 1917

water cooled=20,000 rounds without a barrel change no problem


Drinking, I am thinking about barrel over heating from sustained firing for extended period of time.

30.06 Ammo can were 200 rds per can, 20,000 rds would be 100 cans of ammo.

[velvet-cream]

.30 cal was from a 250 round ammo can when I used it. But we're from different countries, so it may vary.

[velvet-cream]

Read the book mate ,Winters even says that he would of wanted one in Korea but he didnt no how to do it.

Haven't read the book, nor have I fired a Garand.
But I'll take your word for it.

[Hollis]

.30 cal was from a 250 round ammo can when I used it. But we're from different countries, so it may vary.


It could have been 250 rds, I don't remember. I have some ammo cans. somehow 200 sticks in my memory, but any way, it is a hell of lot of ammo. For the regular infantry soldier weight is a major factor.

[Jagr]

hmm i wonder how u get an M1 to go full auto? man that would have some kick to it

Its not that hard actually.. the usefullness of it is another matter

[Sabre]

I was going to say it's gutted up from a .30 cal and found this:


For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while serving with Company A, First Battalion, Twenty-Eighth Marines, Fifth Marine Division, in action against enemy Japanese forces on Iwo Jima, in the Volcano Island, 19 February 1945. The first man of his unit to be on station after hitting the beach in the initial assault, Corporal Stein, armed with a personally improvised aircraft-type weapon, provided rapid covering fire as the remainder of his platoon attempted to move into position and, when his comrades were stalled by a concentrated machine-gun and mortar barrage, gallantly stood upright and exposed himself to the enemy's view, thereby drawing the hostile fire to his own person and enabling him to observe the location of the furiously blazing hostile guns. Determined to neutralize the strategically placed weapons, he boldly charged the enemy pillboxes one by one and succeeded in killing twenty of the enemy during the furious single-handed assault. Cool and courageous under the merciless hail of exploding shells and bullets which fell on all sides, he continued to deliver the fire of his skillfully improvised weapon at a tremendous rate of speed which rapidly exhausted his ammunition. Undaunted, he removed his helmet and shoes to expedite his movements on ran back to the beach for additional ammunition, making a total of eight trips under intense fire and carrying or assisting a wounded man back each time. Despite the unrelenting savagery and confusion of battle, he rendered prompt assistance to his platoon whenever the unit was in position, directing the fire of a half-track against a stubborn pillbox until he had effected the ultimate destruction of the Japanese fortification. Later in the day, although his weapon was twice shot from his hands, he personally covered the withdrawal of his platoon to the company position. Stouthearted and indomitable, Corporal Stein, by his aggressive initiative, sound judgment and unwavering devotion to duty in the face of terrific odds, contributed materially to the fulfillment of his mission, and his outstanding valor throughout the bitter hours of conflict sustained and enhanced the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.

Good lord. That bloke had a fvcking pair on him! Shame people don't get to hear about this type of bloke anymore. True hero and an inspiration to others.



Read the book mate ,Winters even says that he would of wanted one in Korea but he didnt no how to do it.

Would have mate. You're turning "would've" into "would of", think about it, it doesn't make sense. Loads of people do that and it gets my back up. Learn to speak/write correctly. p-)

[drinking das boot]

Drinking, I am thinking about barrel over heating from sustained firing for extended period of time.

30.06 Ammo can were 200 rds per can, 20,000 rds would be 100 cans of ammo.

They fired the 1917 for 48 minutes non-stop at its demonstration to the US army

[TheWatcher]

Read the book mate ,Winters even says that he would of wanted one in Korea but he didnt no how to do it.

Haven't read the book, nor have I fired a Garand.
But I'll take your word for it.

Stand easy, nor has super_noodle ! :D

[LapuaMag]

Great thread Jabroni. I remember hearing about that "Stinger" once before but didn't know much. Thanks for sharing the info. Good stuff.

P.S. HOLLiS nice pics back on page 2.

[MoFo]

Tony Stein, thats a helluva story.

[Spinal Tap 84]

Haven't read the book, nor have I fired a Garand.
But I'll take your word for it.

Jesus did anyone read my post? I freaking typed out the passage from the book regarding this. I'll repost it for those of you too A.D.D. to read just over a page of posts before replying (note that "trigger" is misspelled in the book like that. It is not a typo on my part):


Here is the passage from page 286 of Band of Brothers:
"Speirs liked Guth, thought he was a good soldier, and was appreciative of his ability to keep all his weapons in prime condition. He especially appreciated the way Guth could take a file and work on the tripper [sic] housing of an M-1 and make it fully automatic. (Winters got one of those Guth specials. He kept it and, when he set off for the Korean War, took it with him. Unfortunately, Guth cannot remember today how he did it.)"

That is the soft cover by the way. I think Stephen Ambrose might have mixed up the story here though. How would Winters hang on to the same rifle for so long? Also I thought that Winters trained soldiers during Korea and was never deployed overseas.

[Hollis]

They fired the 1917 for 48 minutes non-stop at its demonstration to the US army


Do you have any more information on that? at 1200 RPM that is 57,600 rd in 48 min.

I know that isn't the case, the loading it would slow it down. That is why I would like to read more. Being able to change a barrel quickly helped in the high fire rate autos, Like the M60. I was trained on the M60 and that is what we were told. Bursting was important on several parts one, conservation of ammo and prevent over heating. Some of the real old guns had water jackets to help prevent over heating.

I would like to look at the insides of a 1917 and see how they lightened it.

If memory is right, the MG42 boasted 1200 rpms or so.

[Spinal Tap 84]

@HOLLis:
Well drinking das boot's post suggests that the weapon used at the demonstration for the US Army is the standard 1917 which fired at 450 rpm. The M1917A1 can fire from 450-600 rpm. I don't think das boot was refering to the modified M1917 that James was talking about with the 1200 rpm. Still 12,600 to 28,800 rounds in 48 minutes is a ton, though it makes much more sense when you take into account that das boot says that you could go to around 20,000 rounds without changing barrels.

[Hollis]

@HOLLis:
Well drinking das boot's post suggests that the weapon used at the demonstration for the US Army is the standard 1917 which fired at 450 rpm. The M1917A1 can fire from 450-600 rpm. I don't think das boot was refering to the modified M1917 that James was talking about with the 1200 rpm. Still 12,600 to 28,800 rounds in 48 minutes is a ton, though it makes much more sense when you take into account that das boot says that you could go to around 20,000 rounds without changing barrels.

Thanks Spinal that was my thought too, that he is talking about barrel life, when the barrel is shot out. I still wold like to see what modifcation ws done to the 1917 to fire 1200 rpm. I always thought it was designed to shoot slower because how it operated.

[Spinal Tap 84]

Yeah that would be interesting to see because that is a HUGE increase in rate of fire, and like you said there is only so much you can do until you reach the limits of the weapon due to how it operates.

[James]

WOW, thanks James, that is a impressive amount of fire. One problem, maybe, would be able to feed the beast. The M60 had a spare barrel so did the MG42 that was fairly easy to change and dump in to water(if creek was available). The 1919 Barrel does not change so easy. I am not sure if a water cool jacket would help.

My memory is that the modifications Paige made were about lightening the bolt and putting lighter springs in so it would cycle faster. He also talked about using the guns in a semi-indirect fire role, engaging targets 1000+ yards away. The big reason he said he liked the higher rate of fire was because (my memory of his words again) somehow the higher rate of fire tightened up the beaten zone.

A LOT of what Paige did that saw him awarded the Medal of Honor for his actions in October 1942 on Guadalcanal involved keeping his platoon supplied with ammo. ;)

[loganinkosovo]

This was the serious infantry support weapon of the Korean War.....My Dad carried one for a while.....

http://www.kmike.com/KWjpg/m1919a6r.jpg

http://www.kmike.com/KWjpg/m1919a6l.jpg


M1919A6 .30 Caliber Air Cooled Machine Gun

Rate of fire 400 to 550 rounds per minute Effective range 800 yds
http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/30cala6.htm (http://www.rt66.com/%7Ekorteng/SmallArms/30cala6.htm)

[loganinkosovo]

Drinking, I am thinking about barrel over heating from sustained firing for extended period of time.

30.06 Ammo can were 200 rds per can, 20,000 rds would be 100 cans of ammo.

The M1917A1 was designated as a Heavy Machine Gun for a very good reason: it was heavy! It was not a weapon easily used in fluid combat or assault. However, the weight of this water-cooled weapon also gave it great stability which, with its capability of sustained volume of fire, made it an excellent defensive weapon.

The heavy was also very reliable. The anti-freeze (http://www.rt66.com/%7Ekorteng/SmallArms/30calhv.htm#antifreeze) in its coolant made it dependable even in the intense cold, as in the Chosin (http://www.rt66.com/%7Ekorteng/SmallArms/chos1.htm) Reservoir battles. For stopping massed, or wide-spread infantry assault, the .30 heavy was one of the most effective weapons the infantry had during the Korean war.

http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/30calhv.htm

http://www.rt66.com/%7Ekorteng/SmallArms/images/30mghv2.jpg

[velvet-cream]

http://www.rt66.com/%7Ekorteng/SmallArms/images/30mghv2.jpg


That ammo belt doesn't look right to me. But I've only used disintegrating links on 30 cal.

Why are there rounds to the right of the weapon?

[Hollis]

That ammo belt doesn't look right to me. But I've only used disintegrating links on 30 cal.

Why are there rounds to the right of the weapon?


Those are cloth belts. I have some of those, they were the precursor to the disintegrating links.

I can only guess at why the ammo was not used, maybe to weight the beginning of the belt down. There is a starter tab, so it is not to start the belt.

Login, that is the same machine gun, different configuration (A6 has the "stock").

[Backwoodshunter]

I just love to hear the stories, of not only these brave soldiers who served with such distinction. But also the average tool and die makers, and steel fabricators who went to war and took their know how and really made it work.

[USMCRTop]

found this :look at the rate of fire in the specs
http://liberatorcrew.com/15_Gunnery/02_30cal.htm

[James]

found this :look at the rate of fire in the specs
http://liberatorcrew.com/15_Gunnery/02_30cal.htm

That's a great resource, thanks.

[Durandal]

In 1995 I had the honor of meeting Mitchell Paige, and he described modifications that they made to their water cooled M1917s, milling away parts of the bolt or something, changing springs, etc. that got their rate of fire up to about 1200 rpm.

Having fired a 1917 on several occasions I find that amazing. I don't doubt it, just amazing.

[Hollis]

Having fired a 1917 on several occasions I find that amazing. I don't doubt it, just amazing.


Durandel, that is why I would like to have one in hand to disassemble. There probably are things a person can do to insure reliability in operation at a very high firerate.

The other considerations as with any high firerate MG, is availability of ammo. Bursting becomes more critical. That would reduce effective firerate per minute.

[Hollis]

found this :look at the rate of fire in the specs
http://liberatorcrew.com/15_Gunnery/02_30cal.htm


Wanted to add a thank you for the site and information.

SF.

Hollis

[silveykyle]

ahh I missed this one, shucks

[Hollis]

My memory is that the modifications Paige made were about lightening the bolt and putting lighter springs in so it would cycle faster. He also talked about using the guns in a semi-indirect fire role, engaging targets 1000+ yards away. The big reason he said he liked the higher rate of fire was because (my memory of his words again) somehow the higher rate of fire tightened up the beaten zone.

A LOT of what Paige did that saw him awarded the Medal of Honor for his actions in October 1942 on Guadalcanal involved keeping his platoon supplied with ammo. ;)


Thanks, I remember reading about the GIs opinion of the MG42 in regards to it's rate of fire had on them. Amazing information, Men and Times, Thanks.

[Durandal]

Durandel, that is why I would like to have one in hand to disassemble. There probably are things a person can do to insure reliability in operation at a very high firerate.

The other considerations as with any high firerate MG, is availability of ammo. Bursting becomes more critical. That would reduce effective firerate per minute.

I'll argue that in the long run, considering how temperamental some MGs are even at the best of times a far as feeding ammo, consuming ammo (and thus increasing the number of failures found), moving parts and absolute abuse shooting 100 rounds in say less than 30sec. I would think that such changes, on earlier designs would wreck 'em over the long run.

Just an opinion and probably not as accurate as I might think.

[deadtired]

It may also be the case that long-term reliability (even if long term is only a few days/weeks) was not much of an issue to the GI's who modified these weapons. If the idea was to get the best possible performance out of the weapon right away, the long term effect on the gun was probably not taken into consideration. After all, whats a few thousand rounds in lost barrel life when theres 1,500 extra guns sitting on the beach? The same could be said of any field-modified peice of equipment, couldn't it?

Disclaimer: I have no military experience, and very little experience operating belt-fed weapons. My primary source of knowledge is my time spent working at a WWII museum. Just saying that I might be talking out my arse.

[James]

It may also be the case that long-term reliability (even if long term is only a few days/weeks) was not much of an issue to the GI's who modified these weapons. If the idea was to get the best possible performance out of the weapon right away, the long term effect on the gun was probably not taken into consideration. After all, whats a few thousand rounds in lost barrel life when theres 1,500 extra guns sitting on the beach? The same could be said of any field-modified peice of equipment, couldn't it?

Disclaimer: I have no military experience, and very little experience operating belt-fed weapons. My primary source of knowledge is my time spent working at a WWII museum. Just saying that I might be talking out my arse.

Speaking from personal experience, the USMC never had a lot of extra stuff lying around.

[James]

I'll argue that in the long run, considering how temperamental some MGs are even at the best of times a far as feeding ammo, consuming ammo (and thus increasing the number of failures found), moving parts and absolute abuse shooting 100 rounds in say less than 30sec. I would think that such changes, on earlier designs would wreck 'em over the long run.

Just an opinion and probably not as accurate as I might think.

I agree for the most part, especially if we think about modern designs. But... the M1917/1919 family was designed by John Moses Browning.

I wonder how his designs might have been different if he'd had access to modern design processes and tools.

[deadtired]

Speaking from personal experience, the USMC never had a lot of extra stuff lying around.

Fair enough. That'd also explain why the Marine in question had to scrounge a weapon off a wrecked aircraft. It's just that when I read about the massive support/supply infrastructure at use in WWII I kinda assumed that the front line grunt would be able to get replacement weapons when needed (most of the time). My lack of military experience may make me a bit naive in this regard.

[deadtired]

I wonder how his designs might have been different if he'd had access to modern design processes and tools.
Or materials. Had he the materials, he might've designeda plastic gun, too. Or is that heresy?:lol:

[James]

Or materials. Had he the materials, he might've designeda plastic gun, too. Or is that heresy?:lol:

Blasphemer! :bash:

[California Joe]

Adapt, improvise, overcome....

Tony Stein was a machinist before the war. He fabricated this thing for the hell of it and the firepower. I remember reading how he chucked off his boots and ran back to the beach multiple times for ammo during the assault. I think he was more concerned with devastating firepower than longevity....

I read about this over 30 years ago and always remembered it....

[deadtired]

Blasphemer! :bash:
I am now and will always be a carrying member of the Church of J.M Browning (PBUH).

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/ag05aggie/IMG_0252.jpg

[Hollis]

Adapt, improvise, overcome....




We considered the Army Base at Dong Ha (Red Devil) to be our supply depot. Be surprise what one could get away with. If that did not work, there was trading. Captured weapons made great trade.

At the time rumor had it that the Commadant was actually giving some of Corps' budget back to the President.

[gaijinsamurai]

........now I know where so much of your arsenal came from!

[bikewrench]

Since this seems to be a weapon freaks thread I'll try.
I've seen reference to M1903 Springfields, field modded with BAR mags attached.
Anybody else?
They were permanently attached and could hold 20 rounds or so like the BAR.
This ref. was from the USMC beginning in Guadalcanal.
Thanks.

[California Joe]

I've seen pics of those Springfields but I believe they were fitted with a Pederson(sp?) device to allow full auto fire....

[bikewrench]

Dammit Joe I really liked that answer;
until I read this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedersen_Device

[deadtired]

I've heard of attempts to modify M1's to take BAR mags, but never '03's. The Pedersen device is the only 1903 conversion to semi auto that I'm aware of.

[Hollis]

I've heard of attempts to modify M1's to take BAR mags, but never '03's. The Pedersen device is the only 1903 conversion to semi auto that I'm aware of.


I shot a M1 Garand that was rebarreled to .308 and used M14 Magazines. A friends owns it. Interesting conversion.

[Bobbo_]

What's the difference between a Garand and a m14 besides the magazine?

[Hollis]

What's the difference between a Garand and a m14 besides the magazine?


Not much, same basic platform. The M14 is capable of having a selector to go to full auto There is some minor configuration difference. .

[California Joe]

Dammit Joe I really liked that answer;
until I read this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedersen_Device

Hehehe Hey, I gave it a shot dammit. :)

[LaoSexMachine]

I am now and will always be a carrying member of the Church of J.M Browning (PBUH).

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/ag05aggie/IMG_0252.jpg

Halelujah!!!!!! Shout it on top of the mountain!!!

[Texas Twang]

The gun is indeed an M-2, taken from Dauntless aircraft. Stein arrived on Iwo after serving in the Solomons, where there were remnants of Dauntless dive-bombers all over the beaches. The sight and bipod are from a BAR. The buttstock is from a Garand. What about the trigger? It looks like a modified (lengthened ) 1917. The crude but effective trigger guard helps secure the buttstock. I'll bet this is the weak point.

Acccording to the History Channel video, it took only 4-5 bursts to exhaust 100 rds. This implies that Stein may have used an improvised 100 rd magazine. 250 rds would make the gun pretty heavy and unbalanced (a std M-2 was 31 lbs unloaded). I think I remember a cyclic rate of 1,375 rpm mentioned.

Stein's tactic was to sneak up or charge a pillbox, and pour in concentrated fire at an angle. This caused bullet fragments and concrete chunks to ricochet around in the bunker, eviscerating the enemy.
I've seen a lot of books and film footage about Iwo, but I hadn't heard of Tony Stein until the HC video. I'm glad he was awarded the CMOH. What a stud. What a Marine!