Democracy or Republic?

[bryanleu2002]

The word Democracy is not mentioned once in the Declaration of Independence, the bill of rights, or the constitution..




I am being sold that this is the best form of government today..

I hear it every day on the news and from friends and family.

Democracy or Republic ?


Let's say it together now:
"I pledge alliegance, to the flag, of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands ....

My question is , What are we? (the United States of American).

A Democracy or a Republic..?

[Ratamacue]

The technical term that the US is typically referred to as is "constitutional republic." It is still a democracy however, only based on representation instead of direct decision-making by the populace.

[helomech]

^^^^^^^^^What he said...Republic

[RECON DOC]

It is a democratic republic as stated in the Pledge of Allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation under God, indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for all.

[signatory]

..has someone been trying to tell you that a Republic can't be democratic ?

Republics like in France or the US.. or the Constitutional Monarchies up here in Scandinavia is just establishing a form of government, the instrument to rule for and over the people is still democracy.

Likewise, it's possible to have a republic or a constitutional monarchy with dictatorship as the instrument.

That's why we usually prefer democracy.

[Lt. James Anderson]

http://www.democracyisnotfreedom.com/

You can read more here.

We are a constitutional republic only on paper (governed not by a group of people but by the law - Constitution).
But in reality we are a democracy (which is next to communism only more subtle).

[bryanleu2002]

Here is Childrens books definition of democracy by a college in Hawaii.

--Audio--


http://www.jonathangullible.com/mmedia/Ch37demo.mp3

[budgie]

As I understand it Democracy is a system of government, not a type of country. China, North Korea and Iran are all republics as well (although perhaps NK leans more towards 'giant fiefdom'). On the other hand the United Arab Emirates, which is considerably more democratic than NK, is unabashedly a collection of fiefdoms. Then you get Constitutional Monarchies such as the UK and Japan which have democratic systems not unlike that of the US, but are not republics.

So can't we just call America a "democratic republic"? After all those two words form the root in the names of the two main political parties in the country.

[themacedonian]

As I understand it Democracy is a system of government, not a type of country. China, North Korea and Iran are all republics as well (although perhaps NK leans more towards 'giant fiefdom'). On the other hand the United Arab Emirates, which is considerably more democratic than NK, is unabashedly a collection of fiefdoms. Then you get Constitutional Monarchies such as the UK and Japan which have democratic systems not unlike that of the US, but are not republics.

So can't we just call America a "democratic republic"? After all those two words form the root in the names of the two main political parties in the country.

The name of the two parties are just names. It could have been other main two parties like Democrats in rest of the world are Labour Party and Republicans are Liberals or National Party.

Well official name of North Korea is Democratic Republic of Korea.

China is Peoples Republic of China.

Democracy (literally "rule by the people", from the Greek demos, "people", and kratos, "rule".

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b9/Claims_Of_Demoracy.png/800px-Claims_Of_Demoracy.png (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b9/Claims_Of_Demoracy.png)

The countries in Blue "claim" to be democratic and the countries in red do not.

Res publica is a Latin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin) phrase, made of res + publica, literally meaning "public thing" or "public matter". It is the origin of the word 'Republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic)'.

"Public property"
Res publica usually refers to a thing that is not considered to be private property (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_property), but which is rather held in common by many people. For instance a park or garden in the city of Rome could either be "private property", or managed by the state, in which case it would be (part of the) res publica.

So something that is COMMON by many people and is managed by the STATE is a perfect name for COMMUNISAM. Interesting.

So Soviet Union was Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

But how the people working for state are brought in is the difference. Democratic is by direct people rule through public representation i.e voting from differnt parties. While in communist states is from one party. They have their own internal electrions sometimes.

[Herrmannek]

You are wrong with analogy to communism. Commies never were republics in a true sense because ordinary people had no effective way to affect state. Republic usually doesn't refer to the parks in the city, but the owner of the state. In republic People are owning state, not king, not dictator or any soviet party or oligarchy. Of course countries like China like to call themselves republics, but they don't meet main aspects of it. Difference between democracy and republic as far as a I orientate is. Republic means a state that choses representatives in form of government and parliament , while democracy is considered direct way of governing(referendums) maybe even without the state. Thats what I've got from "accommodation to life in society" classes...

[Mastermind]

It is the Represenative Democratic Republic. But, that covers a huge bit of terrain by definition. It is rapidly becoming more and more a socialist state where the state has the ultimate power. elections have become mere circuses with the outcomes so predictable as to be laughable. Democrats and Republicans (how ironic is that) are now so close together in action as to be indistinguishable.

Quite honestly, I think some day it will be called the "Socialist Corporation of the Incorporated States of America"...we will vote by "shares" that we buy on the stock market...Of course, poor people will still get to vote by shares issued to them with their welfare checks. Might as well, since the corporations run the country anyway. Who runs the corporations? We The People! s/

[Shellshock1918]

The technical term that the US is typically referred to as is "constitutional republic." It is still a democracy however, only based on representation instead of direct decision-making by the populace.

Yep. It's a Republic.

[themacedonian]

You are wrong with analogy to communism. Commies never were republics in a true sense because ordinary people had no effective way to affect state. Republic usually doesn't refer to the parks in the city, but the owner of the state. In republic People are owning state, not king, not dictator or any soviet party or oligarchy. Of course countries like China like to call themselves republics, but they don't meet main aspects of it. Difference between democracy and republic as far as a I orientate is. Republic means a state that choses representatives in form of government and parliament , while democracy is considered direct way of governing(referendums) maybe even without the state. Thats what I've got from "accommodation to life in society" classes...

I got the definition of republic from wiki.

Republic in the old days meant a state that is representative of people or "public state" (not a public park) as opposed to monarchy. When France cut off the head of Luie XiV they became a "Republic" non king governed.

I am not sure if you have heard of the Cromwell Republic the time when there was a change of king in England in 17th century. It was a time when the parliament governed (on behalf of people) and not the king.

Where France and England in those years democratic. A big NO. Where they Republics? YES.

United States was propably the first to introduce a republic (non monarchy) with direct people representation through democracy.

Was United States truly democratic? Well it evolved and became fully democratic when women where allowed to vote.

Was Australia Democratic?? Well not until mid 1960's.

Indigenous Australians were given the right to vote in Commonwealth elections in Australia in November 1963 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1963_in_Australia), and in state elections shortly after, with the last state to do this being Queensland in 1965 and the first state being South Australia before Federation. The 1967 referendum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_referendum%2C_1967_%28Aboriginals%29) passed in Australia with a 90% majority which allowed the Commonwealth to make laws with respect to Aboriginal people, and for Aboriginal people to be included when the country does a count to determine electoral representation. This has been the largest affirmative vote in the history of Australia's referenda.

Is Australia a republic. A BIG NO! Australia is constitutional monarchy with democratic system of government.

We had a referendum to become a republic 5-6 years ago and it was rejected.

[themacedonian]

So in short:

Republic is the form of government of a country.

Democracy is the method of government.

[Switek]

It's simple as stick...

Tyrant elected in general elections - > Republic

Monarchy with parliamentary system -> Democracy

[Indiana Jones]

When France cut off the head of Luie XiV they became a "Republic" non king governed.



You got something terribly wrong there...

[themacedonian]

Sorry Louis XVI not XIV (I mixed the roman numerals).

Arrest and execution, 1792-1793
[/URL] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:LouisXVIExecutionBig.jpg"]http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:LouisXVIExecutionBig.jpg)
Execution of Louis XVI


Louis was officially arrested on August 13 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_13) and sent to the Temple (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_%28Paris%29), an ancient Paris fortress used as a prison. On September 21 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_21), the National Convention declared France to be a republic.
Louis was tried (from December 11 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_11), 1792 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1792)) and convicted of high treason before the National Convention (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Convention). He was sentenced to death (January 21 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_21), 1793 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1793)) by guillotine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillotine) by a vote of 361 to 288, with 72 effective abstentions.
Stripped of all titles and honorifics by the egalitarian, republican government, Citizen Louis Capet was guillotined (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillotine) in front of a cheering crowd on January 21 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_21), 1793 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1793). Executioner Charles Henri Sanson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Henri_Sanson) testified that the former King had bravely met his fate.
On his death, his eight-year-old son, Louis-Charles, automatically became to royalists and some foreign states the de jure King Louis XVII of France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_XVII_of_France), despiteFrance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France) having been declared a republic.

VIVA LE FRANCE!!

Liberté, égalité, fraternité, French (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_language) for "Liberty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty), equality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_equality), fraternity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraternity_%28disambiguation%29) (brotherhood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brotherhood))", is the motto of the French Republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Republic), and is a typical example of a tripartite motto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripartite_motto).
The slogan of the French Revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution) was Liberté, égalité, fraternité, ou la mort! (Freedom, equality, brotherhood, or death!). This slogan outlived the revolution, and later became the rallying cry of the activists, both militant and non-violent, who promote democracy or overthrow of oppressive governments.

[RS_Leo1A5]

Republic means a state that choses representatives in form of government and parliament ,
The core quality of a republic is indeed, following the traditional definition of a republic as a non-monarchy, a head of state/government elected by the people. A parliament is not necessary.
"Republic" is a type of state.

while democracy is considered direct way of governing(referendums) maybe even without the state.
You describe direct democracy, a special type of democracy. The usual type of democracy found today is representative democracy that works with intermediates (parliaments) elected to represent the people's will (but sometimes integrates direct elements like public referendums e.g. in California or Switzerland).
"Democracy" is a type of government.

A republic doesn't have to be democratic (the elected head of state could have totalitarian powers - but only for his term in office!*) and a democratic state is not necessarily a republic (see Constitutional Monarchies - democratic government but non-elected hereditary head of state).

* And he must still be subject to the constitution, otherwise it's a dictatorship.

[James]

The word Democracy is not mentioned once in the Declaration of Independence, the bill of rights, or the constitution..
I am being sold that this is the best form of government today..
I hear it every day on the news and from friends and family.
Democracy or Republic ?
Let's say it together now:
"I pledge alliegance, to the flag, of the United States of America, and to the
Republic for which it stands ....
My question is , What are we? (the United States of American).
A Democracy or a Republic..?

Did you just take a middle school American History class?

[awangmamat]

Communism is about ownership of the means of economic production. That is to say that the means of economic production is owned communally. In the Capitalist system (a more appropriate equivalent for comparison purposes) the means of economic production is owned by the person (natural or not) that owns the capital.

A democracy can chose to have a government that is communist in its economic beliefs. An example would be the state of Kerala in the union of the Republic of India. The electorate within that state subsequently chose to elect a non-communist government. Both were done through the ballot box.

However, many communist states (which are for the most part republics, I can't think of any that are not) are also totalitarian. That is to say that the government does not tolerate the existence of an opposition.

An interesting note is that the constitution of the former Soviet Union was considered to be more democratic that of the United States. The constitution of the former actually allowed for multiple communist parties to vie for power in an election. This obviously didn't happen because the SU was in reality a totalitarian state. And while the US is less democratic on paper (read Electoral College) it is in reality the most democratic state in the world at present.

Another interesting state would be the People's Republic of China. On paper communist in its economic beliefs with a constitution that allows for multi-party democratic elections. However, the Chinese communist party (I forget its official name) is totalitarian in practise. The PRC's economic system is also selectively capitalist (Deng Xiaping's "Socialism with Chinese Characteristics").

[martinexsquaddie]

democratic peoples republic means a statist tyranny that will shoot you if you try to vote with your feet:(

[Mastermind]

Hmmmm...very interesting discussion....what is said about both the Soviet and the Red Chinese I have read before and remember following up and found it to be true....but, as Franklin Roosevelt proved in 1937 when he and his Democrat dominated congress rammed Social Security down the US Supreme Court's throat...there is always a way to subvert a constitution.