US/UK partnership and how either country views the other?

[pirate pete]

Hi guys, I know this is my first post here and I suppose people will wonder if this is a political discussion or more of a social consideration.

But

Something I have always wondered when reading about the 'special bond' between the UK and the US from the early 20th century (WW1/WW2/Korea/Iraq1+2 etc) is how the social understanding works between the armed services and the populations of either country.

Our leaders are always telling and portraying of a partnership between the countries which has lasted through the past 150 or so years.

But, how exactly does the average British squaddie view a US marine? Would they be happy to work with them? Or do they see them as arrogant, poorly trained and trigger happy?

How do the American public view the British contribution to the coalition in contrast with their view of say…Germany’s contribution? Do Americans understand that Britain is supplying the second heaviest contribution?

Do American soldiers look upon Brits as posh talking, tea drinking toffs who have no real military ability or strength? Or do they recognise the proud British military history?

Since I know there are a large amount of Yanks and Brits on this board, I would like to hear the opinions of the board over this ‘special bond’. Indeed, I would be interested to hear the view of citizens from other countries inside/outside the coalition over the bond.

As a Briton, I personally have a great deal of respect for the bond – probably, this stems from my respect for the United States and the base that it was created from.
I also feel quite a lot of relation to Americans when I meet them and tend to view them as our world cousins. I do tend to get quite a patriotic feeling also when I read news reports of British forces working effectively and directly with American forces in combat scenarios. The pictures from today of the Queen arriving in the States to a full military welcome under the Union Flag and the American Flag gave me that warm fuzzy feeling that can only be associated with pride in a bond of a friendship that deserves a huge amount of respect.

So, how does everyone else feel towards the bond between the two countries?
Do any soldiers on the board have first hand experience of troops from across the pond, what are your thoughts?
Finally, I am interested in any form of media reporting US/UK cooperation that members might have - Pics/Newsreports/Videos etc would be really great

Thanks
Pete

[California Joe]

I dig the Brits.

[Hydro]

Here in the UK a lot of peoples view of America seems to be coloured by George Bush. In my eyes, what sort of person are you if you judge a nation of 300 million odd, a nation of stunning natural beauty, of a wide variety of people and culture on the actions of one man, and a damn politician at that.

I've said this a few times on this board, but America is like 50 little countries and needs to be treated as such, you can't make sweeping generalisations with a nation like that.

The US is, if we're honest, the bastard cousin of the UK, whether we like it or not; we generally share the same core fundamental beliefs, and it's really due to our similarity that we stick together.


You can tend to get quite strong opinions between the two militaries, it's mostly bluster and banter really. They do tend to work on different wavelengths because the make up between the two forces are so different in size and application. This can lead to friction, but on the whole, US/UK forces working together at the pointy end have nothing bad to say about each other.

[California Joe]

a nation of stunning natural beauty

Thanks Hydro. *blush*

Seriously, my opinions of the British are coloured(Brit spelling) more by my conversations in here and an affinity for their military history and traditions than their politicians.

[Hydro]

Except around Vermont. There's a huge gaping black hole of ugliness around there that no one can explain.





Oh, HI JOE!!!11

[seraosha]

I can't think of a country with closer cultural and linguistic ties than the UK, and by extension the Commonwealth. As Churchill put it "English speaking Civilization", to paraphrase the old man.

The contributions in Afghanistan far outweigh the Iraqi impact (at least as far as I perceive it) but that is not paramount, imo.

I'm worried about who will replace Blair though.

[SOG]

the language you speak is wierd, like those in the deep south of the US.

the food you eat is weird, but sits well with my biology concerning taste and digestion.

i hate your music, but i hate everybodies music.

i like your weather.

your dames arent that bad.

just about every brit ive ever met has been nice. (ive not met many though)

your government structure and politicians seem to be very different compared to ours. i rather like yours over the circus over here.

i feel that england is the only country we would never again go to war against unlike those sneak thief canadians.

i look forward to england having a king again.

cheers!?

[CMNot]

i like your weather.

I can honestly say thats a first...

[Bitogno]

Here in the UK a lot of peoples view of America seems to be coloured by George Bush. In my eyes, what sort of person are you if you judge a nation of 300 million odd, a nation of stunning natural beauty, of a wide variety of people and culture on the actions of one man, and a damn politician at that.


Agreed but you have remember that these 300 millions people elected G. W. Bush and then re-elected him.

[Hydro]

Not all of them voted for G.W.


When he was elected first time round, no-one knew what he was going to be like as President.

Essentially there are only 2 parties to vote for in the US; you've got to think that maybe the Republicans struck more of a chord with those at home to ensure that second vote. When the vote came round, unless the American public are clairvoyant, they wouldn't have sat in the polling booth saying "Ah well, there's going to be Katrina soon, and this and that", all things that were ballsed up after he was re-elected.

I maintain that whilst he might not be any great shakes as a President, or even a politician at that, I bet he'd be a scream at a pissed up BBQ. Like Clinton. Though you'd probably have to throw both of them over the neighbours fence when they get too wankered.

[Bitogno]

Not all of them voted for G.W.

When he was elected first time round, no-one knew what he was going to be like as President.

For the first election I fully agree, I should have put the re-elected in bold. My reaction is probalbly due to the fact that when he was re-elected, I saw a map of the USA with colors representing who voted for whom. And the whole USA except East and Wes coast was covedered of blue ( Republican ). At the begining of the Iraq war a big majority of the US citizen were supporting the war and instead of listening those who were saying beware you are going in the mud ( France, Germany, Russia ... ), it was more punishing them ( and I don't talk about freedom fries ). It's quite fun to see people now saying : it's all bush fault. Sorry but the US people were at that time with him.

[szr]

Damnit! The French are always trying to rain on our Anglo love fest!

Bitogno, blue represents democrats in the United States.

This is the map (http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6761/statemapredbluexu1.jpg) you probably saw. It looks like the Republicans won 80% of the vote. That map is misleading, however, as it doesn't reflect the population. Relative to the coasts, that vast chunk of middle America is relatively empty.

This map (http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=statecartpy1.png) accounts for the population of the states. Just over half of America voted for Bush. The other half voted for the other guy.

Back on topic.

Americans are extremely Rah! Rah! Great Britain, **** yeah! Probably because most Americans haven't the faintest clue of what your average Brit walking down High Street really thinks of us. Then there's the whole aspect of the romanticised view Americans have of the UK (knights and castles, holy hand grenades etc. :p). Americans are extremely fond of Britain.

[LaoSexMachine]

I always liked the UK. The military hisotry and funny accent.

If you want to know about America take about three months off and drive around the country. New York, LA, or whatever big city doesn't represent America.

[MEGR]

Agreed but you have remember that these 300 millions people elected G. W. Bush and then re-elected him.

Um, no. An average of 110 million people voted in the 2000 and 2004 election. Around 50% or above of those voters voted for GWB.

Showing disdain for the US because of one man is just plain ignorant. Europe is chock full of jackass politicians and people, yet I don't cast dispersions on every single on of their inhabitants because of a minority.

[Bitogno]

Um, no. An average of 110 million people voted in the 2000 and 2004 election. Around 50% or above of those voters voted for GWB.

Showing disdain for the US because of one man is just plain ignorant. Europe is chock full of jackass politicians and people, yet I don't cast dispersions on every single on of their inhabitants because of a minority.

Democracy is a matter of responsability. It is easy to say it's only GWB fault. You seem to try to hide behind GWB as if he was the only responsible for the perception the world has of US ( not only in France, US is badly noted by other countries : http://pewglobal.org/commentary/display.php?AnalysisID=1019 ). He was re-elected, those who vote for him are responsible for what he did and those who didn't vote are responsible too.

[Bitogno]

Damnit! The French are always trying to rain on our Anglo love fest!

Bitogno, blue represents democrats in the United States.

This is the map (http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6761/statemapredbluexu1.jpg) you probably saw. It looks like the Republicans won 80% of the vote. That map is misleading, however, as it doesn't reflect the population. Relative to the coasts, that vast chunk of middle America is relatively empty.

This map (http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=statecartpy1.png) accounts for the population of the states. Just over half of America voted for Bush. The other half voted for the other guy.

Back on topic.

Americans are extremely Rah! Rah! Great Britain, **** yeah! Probably because most Americans haven't the faintest clue of what your average Brit walking down High Street really thinks of us. Then there's the whole aspect of the romanticised view Americans have of the UK (knights and castles, holy hand grenades etc. :p). Americans are extremely fond of Britain.

It was almost, but more detailed, the first map.

[CMNot]

Bitogno, its not always that simple though...Bush, or Kerry?

I'm by no means right wing by American standards, but it is a no-brainer...

Like the choice we faced in Britain, the Bliar again...or some bumbling old-Thatcherite whose name quite frankly escapes me at present.

[EsoognomEhT]

Do American soldiers look upon Brits as posh talking, tea drinking toffs who have no real military ability or strength?

They would have to be pretty ****ing stupid to think that now wouldn't they...

[Bitogno]

Bitogno, its not always that simple though...Bush, or Kerry?

I'm by no means right wing by American standards, but it is a no-brainer...

Like the choice we faced in Britain, the Bliar again...or some bumbling old-Thatcherite whose name quite frankly escapes me at present.

Kerry without any doubts. But in UK... Hopefully I won't have to vote in UK.

[Suicaine]

i hate your music, but i hate everybodies music.

You can't hate Iron Maiden, Status Quo etc. :grin:



i like your weather.

Your welcome to it mate.



i feel that england is the only country we would never again go to war against unlike those sneak thief canadians.

Funny you should say that i was reading in yesterdays paper of choice (Daily Express) how there was talk of an Anglo-American war in the late 1920's and an American plan on how to overpower the British empire, but as with all journalism you have to take it with a pinch of salt.

- Alex.

[ando]

why are scotland and wales are never mensioned thats something ive always ponderd !! was against england indeed sire but lets get the jocks and welshi's down too

Also for some reason my manc / shamless stylee accent is always considerd to be irish by any american i meet ! oh and do i live in london? and is it foggy

There always the first 2 questions i get :-) !!!

Iron maiden - alex your wrong man !!!

[Jobu]

I enjoy watching the EPL on Fox Soccer Channel, that's about the closest I come to any US-UK relationship.

As for what we think of Brits, I assume it's about the same as you think of us. We think you're probably mostly nice people but generally see that you're doing things the wrong way, ie. not our way.

[EsoognomEhT]

Hey we invented your way, without us you would be nothing ;p

[Hypno85]

I have a fair amount of American friends and there all really good guys they don't understand some of jokes/humor but hey thats not a new one. But one thing i will say we don't talk like the royals and we don't all drink tea.

I work with a yank and to be honest i call him the yankiee **** he really does let the the Americans down in being a arse by saying America this and America that and i have to say i do mumble under my breath f**king go back there then. But mostly its his own personality which stinks.

As military side of things i hear alot around friends who serve and other squaddies 1 quote "Have the kit, But don't know how to use it" I'm not exactly sure what this means to be honest. As a whole i think most of the military respect the US military.

Only thing which does annoy the crap out of me is the US per-say we saved you twice. Yeah i can acknowledge you helped us in WW2 with supply's etc... And WW1 you sent troops as well. But they forget that we were fighting a hell of a lot longer in both wars. But hey thats the American who doesn't pick up history book and read it.

[ed316]

Democracy is a matter of responsability. It is easy to say it's only GWB fault. You seem to try to hide behind GWB as if he was the only responsible for the perception the world has of US ( not only in France, US is badly noted by other countries : http://pewglobal.org/commentary/display.php?AnalysisID=1019 ). He was re-elected, those who vote for him are responsible for what he did and those who didn't vote are responsible too.


Thank you for that lesson in democracy. The hatred people have for Dubya is downright hilarious. People don't like the way he walks, he's a cowboy, he "stupid". I wonder how many of the people who dislike him can run a country as big as America? So please stop drinking the Kool-Aid. I doubt all of the politicians in France are a bunch of saints and do gooders.

[ratsappretnice]

I realise I seem to be the only one here who has said this, but, from what i have heard from all squaddies/officers and any other serving/ex british personnel, is that they are completely incompetent. On the civvie side of things its much the same as far as i am concerned, mostly hatred, and i do mean hatred. But then again this obviously doesn't necessarily represent the country or armed forces as a whole.

[Pigdog]

Americans are extremely Rah! Rah! Great Britain, **** yeah! Probably because most Americans haven't the faintest clue of what your average Brit walking down High Street really thinks of us.

So true.

I used to have that attitude having always heard about the special relationship, greatest allies, BFF, blah blah blah, until I started actually interacting with them.

[Pigdog]

I realise I seem to be the only one here who has said this, but, from what i have heard from all squaddies/officers and any other serving/ex british personnel, is that they are completely incompetent. On the civvie side of things its much the same as far as i am concerned, mostly hatred, and i do mean hatred. But then again this obviously doesn't necessarily represent the country or armed forces as a whole.

Exactly. You can see plenty of this on Arsse.co

[Hypno85]

Exactly. You can see plenty of this on Arsse.co

Nothing wrong with Arsse. Squaddies being squaddies. And some of the stuff on there makes me cry from laughing.

[Pigdog]

Nothing wrong with Arsse. Squaddies being squaddies. And some of the stuff on there makes me cry from laughing.

Ahh, is that what it is. I just took it as condescension and complete disrespect.

To be fair I haven't looked over the arsse site in about a year so I was assuming it's the same.

[Suicaine]

Nothing wrong with Arsse. Squaddies being squaddies. And some of the stuff on there makes me cry from laughing.
those lot, some of it's funny but they have a problem with everything, new recruits, SNCO's, young officers, Old officers, new kit, old kit. list is endless.
the ideal member is a L/Cpl or a Cpl in East of England reg TA. Very one sided.

- Alex.

[EsoognomEhT]

Ahh, is that what it is. I just took it as condescension and complete disrespect.


Which is exactly why they're saying stuff that like old bean rofl


As for hated, I don't think thats correct (bar certain sections of our society if you catch my drift) I'd liken the way I reckon the average Brit sees American's as to the way you view a slightly naughty and sometimes backwards cousin. Embarrassing, opinionated, always thinking they're right, but overall a good sort.

[Partial_Panel]

I lived with a British girl for five years, and she put it this way:

America is akin to the scrawny little neighbourhood runt, who suddenly grows up to be the biggest, strongest kid on the block.
The downside is, that we grew strong physicaly, but haven't caught up emotionaly enough to use that power wisely, and therefore are looked upon with suspicion and mistrust. But not hate.

She also said: "We've been taking the p*ss out of you for more than 200 years, we've got it well sorted out." Or words to that effect.
(She was a Geordie, so understanding anything she said was almost futile. The key to a happy relationship:) )

[Merfeller]

Agreed but you have remember that these 300 millions people elected G. W. Bush and then re-elected him.

More like 80 million. People can't be bothered to vote here. American Idol is a different matter altogether, of course. Or the vote for the color of a new M&M...:roll:

[sferrin]

Kerry without any doubts. But in UK... Hopefully I won't have to vote in UK.

What is it about Kerry that makes you think he'd have been a better choice?

[SOG]

I can honestly say thats a first...

i like dreary weather! nice, cool and calming. for some reason most people i ask say overcast weather makes them depressed.

[non]

I lived with a British girl for five years, and she put it this way:

America is akin to the scrawny little neighbourhood runt, who suddenly grows up to be the biggest, strongest kid on the block.
The downside is, that we grew strong physicaly, but haven't caught up emotionaly enough to use that power wisely, and therefore are looked upon with suspicion and mistrust. But not hate.

She also said: "We've been taking the p*ss out of you for more than 200 years, we've got it well sorted out." Or words to that effect.
(She was a Geordie, so understanding anything she said was almost futile. The key to a happy relationship:) ) Well, I guess watching one's Empire crumble certainly matures one "emotionally" . "Suspicion and mistrust"...because we might foul up (or, complicate) the world in the same ways that the British Empire and numerous Euro powers did?... It's really great to be the stupid, barely literate, armed, fat, bastard cousin of the resentfully nostalgic. Maybe if we rioted at baseball games we'd win more favor. As far as American considerations of U.K., most of us assume they don't visit dentists and might swing both ways. But, yeah, we got your backs. I mean...if you want.

[EsoognomEhT]

Begone troll...

[evanfitz]

Its not to uncommon to see Americans wearing a union jack on their clothing or accessories (purse, wallet, shoes etc.)

[BloodyTalon]

Personally, I think the relationship between the US and the UK is like one giant cop drama/buddy comedy:


The US is the gruff, loose cannon, trigger happy, chain smoking, divorced alchohol addiction-battling, slightly clinically unbalanced cop who wants to take down the bad guys no matter what gets in his way.


The UK is the smart-assed partner who is slightly less hardcore than the US. He prefers to play by the rules but has no problem coming to his partner's aide when trouble arises. He may or not be too old for this ****.


The UN is the uptight police chief who yells at the US for not following protocal and being the source of warehouses full of paperwork and constantly threatends to force the US to turn his badge, although this rarely happens and the US always gets his badge back in the end.

[szr]

The US is the gruff, loose cannon, trigger happy, chain smoking, divorced alchohol addiction-battling, slightly clinically unbalanced cop who wants to take down the bad guys no matter what gets in his way.
And gets all the girls while doing it.

[EsoognomEhT]

Shame they're fat..

[szr]

Shame they're fat..
Wasn't our choice to film MPPD Blue in London. Gotta make due with what we've got.

[Spinal Tap 84]

Personally, I think the relationship between the US and the UK is like one giant cop drama/buddy comedy:


The US is the gruff, loose cannon, trigger happy, chain smoking, divorced alchohol addiction-battling, slightly clinically unbalanced cop who wants to take down the bad guys no matter what gets in his way.


The UK is the smart-assed partner who is slightly less hardcore than the US. He prefers to play by the rules but has no problem coming to his partner's aide when trouble arises. He may or not be too old for this ****.


The UN is the uptight police chief who yells at the US for not following protocal and being the source of warehouses full of paperwork and constantly threatends to force the US to turn his badge, although this rarely happens and the US always gets his badge back in the end.
LOL that is funny as hell. Just like the Lethal Weapon movies.

I have nothing but good will towards Great Britain and British citizens. As you guys pointed out already, it is stupid to judge a country from your experience with ONE person from that country. If someone from a specific country says something that gets me angry, I do not get angry with that country or its people. I get angry with that one person. Stupid people are everywhere; don't blame the country in which they live for it because good people live everwhere too.

As far as appreciating the military history of the Brits...I am a civilian who has a deep interest in military history (hence why I registered with this site), and I must say that British military history is fascinating.

I think that a lot of the anti-American sentiment in Europe is due to the fact that they do not get to interact with Americans on a daily basis (and vice versa) seeing as the Atlantic Ocean separates us. The only exposure to Americans that Europeans get is watching GWB (who I like by the way) on the news. It is a lot easier to hate someone that you never met and don’t have a face to put to the name.

Back on topic: There was a poll released today about how Americans view Queen Elizabeth and Prince Phillip. Sorry I do not have the source at the moment, but I saw it on the news. 80% of Americans view the Queen favorably. 65% (I think) of Americans view Prince Phillip favorably. I think the discrepancy is due to the fact that Americans do not see Prince Phillip in the media as much as they do Queen Elizabeth.

So long story short, Brits are cool.

[IraGlacialis]

Back on topic: There was a poll released today about how Americans view Queen Elizabeth and Prince Phillip. Sorry I do not have the source at the moment, but I saw it on the news. 80% of Americans view the Queen favorably. 65% (I think) of Americans view Prince Phillip favorably. I think the discrepancy is due to the fact that Americans do not see Prince Phillip in the media as much as they do Queen Elizabeth.

So long story short, Brits are cool.
And of course there is how most American girls view Prince William. p-)

Personally, I have great respect for the British Royal Family. Even though I think your prime minister is a bit of a prude sometimes, my opinion of the Queen doesn't change.