Nicolas Sarkozy - New French President

[Zarathustra]

CNN (http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/05/06/france.election/index.html)

Congrats to him.

http://www.interet-general.info/IMG/Nicolas-Sarkozy-8-2.jpg


PARIS, France (CNN) -- Conservative Nicolas Sarkozy was elected Sunday to a five-year term as France's president with 53 percent of the vote, projections for France's state-run network France 2 said.
Sarkozy addressed cheering supporters, telling them that his election was the "greatest honor possible."
He expressed his respect for his defeated rival, Socialist Segolene Royal, saying he will be "the president of all of the French."
Royal, a 53-year-old mother of four, conceded defeat in a speech to supporters moments after the polls closed at 8 p.m. (1800 GMT).
"Keep the faith, keep intact your enthusiasm," she said at her party's headquarters. "I will keep on fighting the fight that we have started today.
"Universal suffrage has spoken. I wish the next president of the Republic the best in accomplishing his mission in the service of all the French people."
Turnout was predicted at about 85 percent, the highest since 1981.
A swarm of cameramen on motorbikes followed Sarkozy's car as he swept through Paris at dusk to address his supporters. Thousands of rightwing voters burst into applause and wild cheering after Sarkozy's victory was announced.
But across the city at Socialist campaign headquarters there was gloom and sorrow as the party crashed to its third consecutive presidential election defeat.
The party now faces the prospect of tough internal reform to make itself more appealing to voters.
The 52-year-old former interior minister and Royal were in a run-off after emerging as the top candidates from the first round of voting on April 22.
Sarkozy will replace Jacques Chirac, a conservative who has been France's president since 1995. His election makes him the first French president born after World War II.
Sarkozy, the son of Hungarian immigrants, voted in the affluent Paris suburb of Neuilly-sur-Seine where he lives, while Royal cast her vote in the western Poitou Charentes region, where she is regional president.
The campaign has been dominated by a debate over how to improve economic growth and reduce unemployment among the young, but its most explosive moments focused on immigration.
Appealing to right-wing voters, Sarkozy said France could not provide "a home for all the world's miseries."
On Friday, Royal said a Sarkozy presidency could trigger violence and brutalities in suburbs with high immigrant populations, prompting Sarkozy to condemn her "threatening comments."
CNN correspondent Hala Gorani reported extra security in some areas around Paris where police have previously clashed with youths of North African origin.
There are no official figures on the number of North African immigrants and their French-born descendants in France. Unofficially, the number is estimated at between 3 and 6 million.

[Dakota435]

CNN (http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/05/06/france.election/index.html)

Congrats to him.

http://www.interet-general.info/IMG/Nicolas-Sarkozy-8-2.jpg

I read a great comment on a blog that France has finally hit the same wall that Britain hit around '79, and is finally ready to shed the post war social contract which hasn't worked for 10 to 15 years.

[Ericsson]

that's all good for france
congratulation

[TheArmenian]

Congratulations to France.

I wish the French people live in peace and prosper during Sarkozy's mandate.

http://webeagles.wpcsd.org/Images/Flag_fra.jpg

Felicitations

[Benhurmarcel]

I am sad for my country, the next puppy of the US.

[Dakota435]

I am sad for my country, the next puppy of the US.

Well, you were a puppy of Saddam Hussein 5 years ago, so that's a step up!

[Niels]

I am sad for my country, the next puppy of the US.
Cooperating with the US, an important ally, doesn't make you a puppy. Isolating France right now would be a silly thing to do.

[tooms]

Well, you were a puppy of Saddam Hussein 5 years ago, so that's a step up!

Come on, we just wanted to avoid the mess where you are now.

[Merfeller]

Come on, we just wanted to avoid the mess where you are now.

Avoiding the mess could have been achieved without making him a major trading partner...Either way, let's not quibble.

[Merfeller]

I am sad for my country, the next puppy of the US.

You're not giving the French people much credit there, are you? Not like they're all going to turn enthusiastic about the States all of a sudden, just because half of them elected Sarkozy. As for me, I look forward to friendlier, warmer relations with France.

[Warlord]

now ze americans dont have 2 invade franz again.

Congratulations to Sarkozy!

May his term not be full of Sarkazm.

Now I have something to congratulate my company's' French guest about tomorrow. He's a Sarkozian.

[i_heart_menthols]

As an American, I'm neutral in this election, but I have to congratulate the French on their incredible voter turn out. Over 85%! Wow! Even if your side lost the election, you guys should be very proud of yourselves and your fellow countrymen. I wish the average American cared half as much about their elections as the French.

Job well done, France. Best of luck in the future.

[Klatuu]

Come on, we just wanted to avoid the mess where you are now.

Lol, because Saddam out from under sanctions and in a nuclear arms race with Iran is a preferable "mess" to Saddam in an unmarked grave and Iran virtually surrounded by US military?

No significant WMD stockpiles and lots of difficulty getting the Iraqis to act like civilized people is political good news for folks with interests counter to the USA, but let's not get so far out on the happy limb that we start mistaking politics for reality.

I'd like to echo the sentiments on voter turnout. Good job.

[Kampfbaer]

Congratulations France!

I sincerely hope, that there won´t be any riots in the suburbs.

And at least, there will be no turkish mebership in the EU if Mr. Sakozy stands by his word. As our own politicians do not have the guts, we have to hope for France to save the EU.

[Martel]

Already a topic there : http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=108777

[Kilgor]

As an American, I'm neutral in this election, but I have to congratulate the French on their incredible voter turn out. Over 85%! Wow! Even if your side lost the election, you guys should be very proud of yourselves and your fellow countrymen. I wish the average American cared half as much about their elections as the French.

Job well done, France. Best of luck in the future.

X2 its pretty damm impressive.

This thread descended into sh!t in a record time.

[Bert]

Although I can't say I support nearly half of Sarkozy's policies and ideas, he's definitely a much lesser evil than Royal.

He will be good for Europe, though. No Turkey.

[Ddavid]

Avoiding the mess could have been achieved without making him a major trading partner...Either way, let's not quibble.

Defeat is bitter, so we understand.

[Sgt Kanderer]

Congratulations to France.

I wish the French people live in peace and prosper during Sarkozy's mandate.

Felicitations


Very funny !!

Beetwen 2 bad solutions we choose the badest one !!!

[Dakota435]

Come on, we just wanted to avoid the mess where you are now.

It would be more correct to say that you (not you personally, the French Gov't) wanted to protect your oil interests in Iraq. Also the Russians, who didn't just oppose, but gave Saddam the assault plan when their secret service penetrated CENTCOM.

[Ddavid]

It would be more correct to say that you (not you personally, the French Gov't) wanted to protect your oil interests in Iraq. Also the Russians, who didn't just oppose, but gave Saddam the assault plan when their secret service penetrated CENTCOM.

Humm that sound fair. After all, the US came in to grab iraqi oil industry, which is a worse crime.

[Dakota435]

Humm that sound fair. After all, the US came in to grab iraqi oil industry, which is a worse crime.

Examples of this grabbing?

[Moledet]

Thank god.

When Royal threatened that the Paris suburbs will burn again she sounded like the local Hamas terrorists.

[tomonator]

Thank god.

When Royal threatened that the Paris suburbs will burn again she sounded like the local Hamas terrorists.

Yeah, she was presenting a very logical reason why people should vote for her. To avoid conflict w/ dissatisfied voters.

[Atlantic Friend]

Well, you were a puppy of Saddam Hussein 5 years ago, so that's a step up!

I guess every thread needs an inane comment. Thanks for having provided it - but I must say you usually post better-thought comments.

[Merfeller]

Humm that sound fair. After all, the US came in to grab iraqi oil industry, which is a worse crime.

Yes, exactly. The war is about oil. That's why I'm paying twice as much to fill my car these days. Oh how I wish the conspiracy nuts were right for once...

[Atlantic Friend]

Lol, because Saddam out from under sanctions and in a nuclear arms race with Iran is a preferable "mess" to Saddam in an unmarked grave and Iran virtually surrounded by US military?

It sure was a much cheaper mess. Especially when 3,000 Allied soldiers have gone to the grave with Saddam, along with an unspecified but pretty high number of Iraqis. To put it very coldly, Baathist Iraq was containable, while Chaotic Iraq is now unsustainable. As for the Iraq-Iran nuclear arms race, I am afraid that falls under the "missing WMD" category. Iraq lost that race a long time ago, way before OIF. In the meanwhile, Iran built very officially its nuclear research centers, with official Russian help.


No significant WMD stockpiles and lots of difficulty getting the Iraqis to act like civilized people is political good news for folks with interests counter to the USA, but let's not get so far out on the happy limb that we start mistaking politics for reality.

Tell you, what, I wish the big brass people in Washington had done just that in 2003, when there was supposed to be rose petals raining down on Allied troops as they entered Baghdad after just a few weeks of combat, democracy blossoming in Iraq, and100,000 US troops able to go home before 12 months.

I really wish the big shots had done just that then, because, believe it or not, no significant WMD stockpile, no Iraqi bioweapons mobile labs, no links with 9/11 and what must be called Iraqi descending into chaos and civil war is NOT a good news for anyone but the groups operating in Iraq and their sponsors. And Iran, virtually surrounded or not (virtually seems a pretty apt way of putting it, BTW), seems to have more reason to be happy with the current situation than the West.

[Atlantic Friend]

It would be more correct to say that you (not you personally, the French Gov't) wanted to protect your oil interests in Iraq. Also the Russians, who didn't just oppose, but gave Saddam the assault plan when their secret service penetrated CENTCOM.

The oil interests ? With a regime everybody knew was going down in a matter of weeks ? Because, let's face it, nobody gathers over 100,000 soldiers to face a nation unless he clearly wants to use them. So why make deals with a regime that is already dead ?

Please. Anyway, this is all off-topic, so I'll be more than happy to debate the issue with you in a more appropriate thread.

[JJC]

I was congratulating a French classmate today on the new president and he jokingly said that he is very sad because now his Frenchmen will be forced to work hard hours and no more long vacations.p-)

Anyways congrats on a new president to the French people. If 53% decided for a president who has anti- socialist approach I assume there must be a serious economic problem in France today. I hope the new government will help France prosper more and help it bloom together with the rest of the world.

[GrimReaper]

Congratulations, seems as if France made the right choice this time.

[Dakota435]

I guess very thread needs an inane comment. Thanks for having provided it - I must say you usually post better-thought comments.

ya gotta fight inanity with inanity sometimes...

[Atlantic Friend]

ya gotta fight inanity with inanity sometimes...

Really ? Frankly, I tend to prefer facts and logic.

[Dakota435]

The oil interests ? With a regime everybody knew was going down in a matter of weeks ? Because, let's face it, nobody gathers over 100,000 soldiers to face a nation unless he clearly wants to use them. So why make deals with a regime that is already dead ?

Please. Anyway, this is all off-topic, so I'll be more than happy to debate the issue with you in a more appropriate thread.

Hmm French government assures Saddam they'll prevent the war from starting at the UN almost to the end, and French gov't had many lucrative oil exploration contracts with Saddam.

Anyway, that's what we should do, start a French duplicity thread...

[Dakota435]

Really ? Frankly, I tend to prefer facts and logic.

Too lazy tonight. Inanity was better in that case.

[Atlantic Friend]

Too lazy tonight. Inanity was better in that case.

Come on, what happened to doing things, "not because they are easy but because they are hard" ?

;)

[Atlantic Friend]

Hmm French government assures Saddam they'll prevent the war from starting at the UN almost to the end, and French gov't had many lucrative oil exploration contracts with Saddam.

Anyway, that's what we should do, start a French duplicity thread...

Open such a thread and I promise you a lively debate ! Dare and double dare !

[11 Bravo]

It's a weird exhilaration this french election . Having france as an ally for the first time in my life - wow, never thought they would get the wankerous socialistas out of their catbird seat.
Now maybe the french secret intel guys will open some of their files and some more terrorsits can be exposed whom thought themselves safe when dealing with duplicitous socialistas !.
I think , I'll go out and buy a bottle or two of some good real french cabernet after all these years of refusing to purchase french anything .Things are looking up europa !.

[mas-36]

It's a weird exhilaration this french election . Having france as an ally for the first time in my life - wow, never thought they would get the wankerous socialistas out of their catbird seat.
Now maybe the french secret intel guys will open some of their files and some more terrorsits can be exposed whom thought themselves safe when dealing with duplicitous socialistas !.
I think , I'll go out and buy a bottle or two of some good real french cabernet after all these years of refusing to purchase french anything .Things are looking up europa !.

No wonder you're the MP.Net Dumbarse of the week. Wanna try for the whole month, or the entire year?

[Gothjod]

Whatever.... My Congratz to France and Its People!

[Hollis]

As an American, I'm neutral in this election, but I have to congratulate the French on their incredible voter turn out. Over 85%! Wow! Even if your side lost the election, you guys should be very proud of yourselves and your fellow countrymen. I wish the average American cared half as much about their elections as the French.

Job well done, France. Best of luck in the future.


About says it for me too, 2X!!!!

H.

[stonecutter]

It's a weird exhilaration this french election . Having france as an ally for the first time in my life - wow, never thought they would get the wankerous socialistas out of their catbird seat.
Now maybe the french secret intel guys will open some of their files and some more terrorsits can be exposed whom thought themselves safe when dealing with duplicitous socialistas

[edit -- never mind, doesn't even deserve a response].

[Eusebius]

Congrats to Sarkozy and his supporters!

[Tebryn]

Oh God... What a shame for my country... Little Brother has been elected, compared to him Bill O'Reilly is a leftist...
Five years of darkness...

[Benhurmarcel]

Oh God... What a shame for my country... Little Brother has been elected, compared to him Bill O'Reilly is a leftist...
Five years of darkness...

We want Chirac back :-(

[Ddavid]

Job well done, France. Best of luck in the future.

Thanks a lot, we will need it.

[Vandervahn]

I´d also like to congratulate the rather polite way the election campaign went, mostly fact- and policy-based, not the mudslinging and focus on personal deficiencies from 20 years ago that has become not uncommon in other nations.

------

We want Chirac back :-(

Problem is, Chirac doesn´t want YOU back ;)


Yes, exactly. The war is about oil. That's why I'm paying twice as much to fill my car these days. Oh how I wish the conspiracy nuts were right for once...

Oh how I wish some people could at least take a glance at the greater mechanisms at work. Oil policy, everywhere, does not care what our meager selves pay at the gas pump. As long as its low enough that people can pay for it, that is irrelevant. Its all about strategic control of energy sources securing steady supply, and if you view the issue from that standpoint the reasons for and logic behind securing oneself´ one of the biggest oil reservoirs become quite apparent. All keeping in mind the growing uncertainty of stability in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere.

Unless you choose to live in denial.

[Atlantic Friend]

We want Chirac back :-(

Good news, you can have him, he has just become available. p-)

[signatory]

:)


Swedish Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt has welcomed Nicolas Sarkozy’s victory in the French presidential election and says in the choice between the center-right and the left, the French people chose the candidate with the clearest political vision.

http://www.sr.se/cgi-bin/International/nyhetssidor/artikel.asp?ProgramID=2054&Nyheter=&artikel=1352830

[AROUETLJ]

Can I have Sarko's daughters?

[Lazy Lob]

When does he take office?

[Zarathustra]

When does he take office?

Wednesday, 16th May. Until then, he takes some days off.

[Lazy Lob]

Wednesday, 16th May. Until then, he takes some days off.

Merci.......

[frenchy]

A good thing for my country. :)

[chris450]

Good news for France and Europe

Gongrats to the French for their choice

[valtrex]

Sarkozy: My roots are in Salonika (http://ejpress.org/article/16221)

Nice to have a friend of my country occupying the Elysée Palace

[Merfeller]

I´d also like to congratulate the rather polite way the election campaign went, mostly fact- and policy-based, not the mudslinging and focus on personal deficiencies from 20 years ago that has become not uncommon in other nations.

------


Problem is, Chirac doesn´t want YOU back ;)



Oh how I wish some people could at least take a glance at the greater mechanisms at work. Oil policy, everywhere, does not care what our meager selves pay at the gas pump. As long as its low enough that people can pay for it, that is irrelevant. Its all about strategic control of energy sources securing steady supply, and if you view the issue from that standpoint the reasons for and logic behind securing oneself´ one of the biggest oil reservoirs become quite apparent. All keeping in mind the growing uncertainty of stability in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere.

Unless you choose to live in denial.

Well, I'll bring it up at my next Illuminati meeting. Meanwhile, I'll live in denial and go by the only "greater mechanism" that matters - the commodity markets.

[Merfeller]

We want Chirac back :-(

Chirac endorsed Sarkozy, did he not?

[Count Lippe]

I expect the french youth and workers to deadlock all of france with protests this summer...p-)

[Eusebius]

I expect the french youth and workers to deadlock all of france with protests this summer...p-)

Luckily France has a leader with the strong hand needed to settle the tensions which might arise, the "scum" as he might call them.

[Sharp]

lol, someone on a french forum said (about the riots) : "it's being like vietnam there, when will we drop the napalm?" ahlol

ahlol just seen another funny post of someone

"when start the civil war?" then another responded "you need weapons and balls to make war so it will never happen" self-bashing is for sure a traditional french art.

[frenchy]

Sarkozy: My roots are in Salonika (http://ejpress.org/article/16221)

Nice to have a friend of my country occupying the Elysée Palace

jewish origin and hungarian and greek, what a mix !!

[joka]

And at least, there will be no turkish mebership in the EU if Mr. Sakozy stands by his word. As our own politicians do not have the guts, we have to hope for France to save the EU.

Sarkozy won't be in power when the question issue becomes relevant. Ie. even if he's re-elected he won't be there for more than ten years, and Turkey certanly isn't joining before then. Anyway, as far as I'm aware France is going to have a referendum on Turkish accession and more likely then not this is where Turkish accession plans comes to an end (if not sooner).

Hopefully he'll be able to get the French economy back on track. Though I'm worried about his talks of meddling with ECB independence, hopefully Germany puts a full stop to such talks. Not to mention it finally looks like we'll get some sense in to EU institutions with some sort of treaty.

Though I was rooting for Bayrou, Sarkozy is still a good choice. Cheers to the French voters!

[XTC]

http://www.youtube.com/v/P6Cu9187tCY

[EMPEROR ATTiLA]

congradulations for french people and sarkozy...

lm glad to see sarkozy as president..l hope he will finish our silly politicians EU joining dreams..
but at least EU must declare canceling candidateship of Turkiye as soon as poosible...
merkel and sarkozy will work together
so it seems no chance for joining next 50 years...
l think if candidateship is canceled some genocide claimers and south cyprus politicians may be more sad than majority of Turks...

also most of Turkish nationalists and some intellectuals are opposite joining...
just like Norway they beleive to be indenpendet better than governed from Brussels...

regards...

[Sharp]

http://www.youtube.com/v/P6Cu9187tCY

Lol! Nice one.
it is not so different to hear tony blair speaking in french than a swiss or belgian, finally.

[EMPEROR ATTiLA]

jewish origin and hungarian and greek, what a mix !!

l hope this is not misunderstand.....is sarkozy not french?

[Raptus_regaliter]

l hope this is not misunderstand.....is sarkozy not french?

He is French, but like most people he has a mixed background.

[Atlantic Friend]

A pure-blood Frenchman exist only in the imagination of the National front. Genetically the French nation is a mix of Celts and Romans and German tribes, and then you have to add medieval or modern English, Russian, Italian, Spaniards, Nordic, Balkanic and Arab blood here and there.

The vast majority of the nation can find a foreign national in their family tree, no further than 3 to 4 generations ago. So we can have a President who is part Greek, part Hungarian, part jewish, and still 100% French at the same time. As a recent example, Socialist President François Mitterrand had family ties linking him to the Queen of England, and so did Conservative President General Charles de Gaulle, its old political rival. Le Pen and de Villiers might boast on their "pure" family tree, but it doesn't tell much about character or competence in these here parts.

[Johnny bazooka]

Sarkozy won't be in power when the question issue becomes relevant. Ie. even if he's re-elected he won't be there for more than ten years, and Turkey certanly isn't joining before then. Anyway, as far as I'm aware France is going to have a referendum on Turkish accession and more likely then not this is where Turkish accession plans comes to an end (if not sooner).

Hopefully he'll be able to get the French economy back on track. Though I'm worried about his talks of meddling with ECB independence, hopefully Germany puts a full stop to such talks. Not to mention it finally looks like we'll get some sense in to EU institutions with some sort of treaty.

Though I was rooting for Bayrou, Sarkozy is still a good choice. Cheers to the French voters!

Are you serious about that referendum of Turkish accession? I thought no European leader would dare to take that risk. Considering that most people in EU are contra accession of Turkey. What if the people vote no?

The scenario that I see, is that after years of negotiaton, European leaders will say "well, we have talked for years with the Turks, now we can't refuse them to become member of EU"

But I'm very curious about Sarkozy foreign politics. It is well known that he don't like the Putin regime in Russia and on the other hand is he much more positive about America.

[AROUETLJ]

But I'm very curious about Sarkozy foreign politics. It is well known that he don't like the Putin regime in Russia and on the other hand is he much more positive about America.

Well known by whom? By British and US media, who understood jack **** throughout the electoral campaign? He is positive about American laws regarding businesses and corporations, because they're less rigid than current French laws, but that's about the extent of his "Atlanticist" side. As for Putin and Russia, France has always had better relations with Russia than the Atlanticists in Europe. But the subject wasn't really brought up duing the electoral campaign, so we can't really tell. In any case, France and Russia have held joint military exercises and have sent troops to each other's countries for training, so I expect that cooperation to continue.

[Smashed!]

A pure-blood Frenchman exist only in the imagination of the National front. Genetically the French nation is a mix of Celts and Romans and German tribes, and then you have to add medieval or modern English, Russian, Italian, Spaniards, Nordic, Balkanic and Arab blood here and there.

The vast majority of the nation can find a foreign national in their family tree, no further than 3 to 4 generations ago. So we can have a President who is part Greek, part Hungarian, part jewish, and still 100% French at the same time. As a recent example, Socialist President François Mitterrand had family ties linking him to the Queen of England, and so did Conservative President General Charles de Gaulle, its old political rival. Le Pen and de Villiers might boast on their "pure" family tree, but it doesn't tell much about character or competence in these here parts.


Mythical. It deserves a quote. Are you sure you voted for the Bearnais. I smell socialitisrofl.

[Clearday-TRForce]

Although I can't say I support nearly half of Sarkozy's policies and ideas, he's definitely a much lesser evil than Royal.

He will be good for Europe, though. No Turkey.


Congratulations France!

I sincerely hope, that there won´t be any riots in the suburbs.

And at least, there will be no turkish mebership in the EU if Mr. Sakozy stands by his word. As our own politicians do not have the guts, we have to hope for France to save the EU


Thanks Bert...and Bert likes here...


:) Thank God to see Sarkozy in French Presidency...It means No to Turkey in Europe. And it is a very good news for us, Turkey. Merkel said it before "No Turkey" but she changed her policy. I wonder what Sarkozy will do next!!!

[stephane from Paris]

A pure-blood Frenchman exist only in the imagination of the National front. Genetically the French nation is a mix of Celts and Romans and German tribes, and then you have to add medieval or modern English, Russian, Italian, Spaniards, Nordic, Balkanic and Arab blood here and there.

The vast majority of the nation can find a foreign national in their family tree, no further than 3 to 4 generations ago. So we can have a President who is part Greek, part Hungarian, part jewish, and still 100% French at the same time. As a recent example, Socialist President François Mitterrand had family ties linking him to the Queen of England, and so did Conservative President General Charles de Gaulle, its old political rival. Le Pen and de Villiers might boast on their "pure" family tree, but it doesn't tell much about character or competence in these here parts.

BS!
France the country of french is a 1500 years of History. before : the celt/gallic period+ a few thousands of Romans + germanic invasion (like all Europe)+ englishs who came in Britanny during Saxons invasions =>isn't France or french. French identity is the result of a mix of these peoples.

Since 1500 years to one century ago the immigration was a low rate (the Viking were just a few hundreds families 1100years ago).
The first massive immigration were italians and spanishs (spanishs came again after 1936) end of 19th century.
Says all french have foreign origins is BS (my mother made a research and none foreigners for 7 generations all in Britanny), the East, the North and the south are zones where peoples are more mixed.
btw mix people isn't a problem specially when people who come have a similar culture and more important want to be assimilated.
Sarkozy is a pure french even if his father is from Hungary.

La diversité c'est vous qui nous la vantez, c'est nous qui la vivons!

[Smashed!]

BS!
France the country of french is a 1500 years of History. before : the celt/gallic period+ a few thousands of Romans + germanic invasion (like all Europe)+ englishs who came in Britanny during Saxons invasions =>isn't France or french. French identity is the result of a mix of these peoples.

Since 1500 years to one century ago the immigration was a low rate (the Viking were just a few hundreds families 1100years ago).
The first massive immigration were italians and spanishs (spanishs came again after 1936) end of 19th century.
Says all french have foreign origins is BS (my mother made a research and none foreigners for 7 generations all in Britanny), the East, the North and the south are zones where peoples are more mixed.
btw mix people isn't a problem specially when people who come have a similar culture and more important want to be assimilated.
Sarkozy is a pure french even if his father is from Hungary.

La diversité c'est vous qui nous la vantez, c'est nous qui la vivons!

Coco réduis le volume, et regarde ton pantheon, banane.

Your mother, my chief of project. Different conclusions.

[stephane from Paris]

Let my mother where she is , OK ! Tocard.
Cyberbobo.

[magic_flight]

BS!
France the country of french is a 1500 years of History. before : the celt/gallic period+ a few thousands of Romans + germanic invasion (like all Europe)+ englishs who came in Britanny during Saxons invasions =>isn't France or french. French identity is the result of a mix of these peoples.

Since 1500 years to one century ago the immigration was a low rate (the Viking were just a few hundreds families 1100years ago).
The first massive immigration were italians and spanishs (spanishs came again after 1936) end of 19th century.
Says all french have foreign origins is BS (my mother made a research and none foreigners for 7 generations all in Britanny), the East, the North and the south are zones where peoples are more mixed.
btw mix people isn't a problem specially when people who come have a similar culture and more important want to be assimilated.
Sarkozy is a pure french even if his father is from Hungary.

La diversité c'est vous qui nous la vantez, c'est nous qui la vivons!

The Southern France was a continous Greek soil before it became homogenised by the latin-speaking population.


Examples:
Nice - Ancient Greek city of NICAEA (meaning city of victory), colony of Massalia
Marseille - Ancient Greek city of MASSALIA, colony of Phocaea that was colony of Athens.
Monaco - Dedicated to Hercules Monoikos by its greek habitants.
etc
etc



So. Before the germanic, celtic etc populations, it seems that others were there too, and from the historical archives, they never left the place... :|

[Atlantic Friend]

BS!
France the country of french is a 1500 years of History. before : the celt/gallic period+ a few thousands of Romans + germanic invasion (like all Europe)+ englishs who came in Britanny during Saxons invasions =>isn't France or french. French identity is the result of a mix of these peoples.

Since 1500 years to one century ago the immigration was a low rate (the Viking were just a few hundreds families 1100years ago).
The first massive immigration were italians and spanishs (spanishs came again after 1936) end of 19th century.
Says all french have foreign origins is BS (my mother made a research and none foreigners for 7 generations all in Britanny), the East, the North and the south are zones where peoples are more mixed.
btw mix people isn't a problem specially when people who come have a similar culture and more important want to be assimilated.
Sarkozy is a pure french even if his father is from Hungary.

La diversité c'est vous qui nous la vantez, c'est nous qui la vivons!

BS, really, Stéphane ? Sorry, but you'd be hard taxed to find me a 100% ethnically pure "Frenchman" that is not a Cro-Magnon. Which is a good thing, because by now we would all have retarded kids with 11 toes. And have a look at "France" as it was 1,500 years ago, then compare it to "France" as it is today, and I am sure you'll find a few differences, politically and ethnically.

The Franks, who gave us our name, did not have a typical Parisian accent - they were a Germanic tribe. They invaded a country where Wisigoths, themselves coming from Eastern Europe on the brink of Asian invasion, had already settled. The Wisigoths themselves had found Romans already there when they arrived. The Romans had conquered an already existing population of Celts and Greeks when they settled. The Celts and Greeks arrived (including in your native Britanny) to find older populations (like the Basques for example) already there.

More recently, Southwestern France had already been under Arab/Beduin domination for decades when Charles Martel defeated Abd-el-Rahman II between Tours and Poitiers. Normandy was given as a fiefdom to Vikings, who settled there and added their blood to the mix. Southwestern France also lived under English domination for centuries - which in a way was a return of French-Viking blood to the "homeland" after it had left these shores to conquer England. Corsica was bought to the Kingdom of Genoa, IIRC.

Add to that the modern immigration waves : Portuguese and Italians, Spaniards and Russians, Eastern Europeans and Africans, Asians and Arabs, and I think it is a safe bet to say we are a mixed-blood nation - and that we always were one.

It may bother some, who maybe feel their veins are too noble to be defiled by a foreign drop of blood, or that only "pure" French contributed to France's splendor. I guess they don't like to have to think about the ethnic roots of General Napoleon Bonaparte either - or of the French kings for that matter, who were usually married to foreign princesses. Your family comes from Brittany for 7 generations ? Well, don't forget that, for example, ethnically and politically, Britanny was not a French land before 1532 - something I'm sure militant Bretons will be all too happy to remind you.

It doesn't make any immigration a necessary good thing per se - I'm sure the Celts had a thing or two to say about the Romans, and the Wisigoths about the Franks. Nor that it makes it a bad thing per se either. But it is a fact that is part of any nation's history, and chanting "la-la-la I can't hear you" doesn't make it go away.

[Atlantic Friend]

Mythical. It deserves a quote. Are you sure you voted for the Bearnais. I smell socialitisrofl.

Mythical ? Hardly, my dear. Factual.

[Smashed!]

Mythical ? Hardly, my dear. Factual.

Facts when hit right upon, become myths. And deserve to be quoted. You know what I mean.

On va le regretter ChiChi (et dieu sait si je ne le portais pas dans mon coeur).

[Atlantic Friend]

Facts when hit right upon, become myths. And deserve to be quoted. You know what I mean.

On va le regretter ChiChi (et dieu sait si je ne le portais pas dans mon coeur).

You really think so ? I don't know, to me it sounds like he's going to fade away, after more than 30 years of first-rate political jobs, and the country will move on. The country always moves on.

As for the way I voted, re-read the French Election thread. My sympathies went to Bayrou, but my ballots went to Sarkozy. There's no way in Hell I would have voted Royal.

[Smashed!]

You really think so ? I don't know, to me it sounds like he's going to fade away, after more than 30 years of first-rate political jobs, and the country will move on. The country always moves on.

As for the way I voted, re-read the French Election thread. My sympathies went to Bayrou, but my ballots went to Sarkozy. There's no way in Hell I would have voted Royal.

Le Roi est mort, Vive le Roi. As for your vote I was still under the impression of our last dialogue, then I got suspended for while because of excess of truth.

Further more voting for mister National ID memorial while rejecting anything coming close to it, that's a nice shot. First things, firtp-).

[Atlantic Friend]

Further more voting for mister National ID memorial while rejecting anything coming close to it, that's a nice shot. First things, firtp-).

This is a grave and serious matter where, I'm afraid, we completely differ - but fear not, I shall survive.

Fact is, I don't think national identity should be about having the right ancestry, the right skin complexion, the right religion, or having been born in the right place.

I can think of plenty of people who look French, sound French, and were born in France, but contribute nothing to French society.

I know some people who do not look French, sometimes do not sound French, and worse of all do not have an all-French ancestry or even were born as foreign nationals, but do work hard, obey French laws, do pay their taxes, and even do create jobs, the dirty scoundrels ! I even know a few who are officers in the French Army and fully expect to have the French flag draped over their coffin should they kick the bucket for the Republic.

Of course, you and I can also think of plenty of people with a perfectly French pedigree who DO contribute a lot to French society, and plenty of people with a mixed pedigree who do NOT.

And my point is precisely there : doesn't that mean that the issue of national identity is a tad more complicated than the right set of DNA and a shining ancestry tree ?

[Smashed!]

This is a grave and serious matter where, I'm afraid, we completely differ - but fear not, I shall survive.

Fact is, I don't think national identity should be about having the right ancestry, the right skin complexion, the right religion, or having been born in the right place.

I can think of plenty of people who look French, sound French, and were born in France, but contribute nothing to French society.

I know some people who do not look French, sometimes do not sound French, and worse of all do not have an all-French ancestry or even were born as foreign nationals, but do work hard, obey French laws, do pay their taxes, and even do create jobs, the dirty scoundrels ! I even know a few who are officers in the French Army and fully expect to have the French flag draped over their coffin should they kick the bucket for the Republic.

Of course, you and I can also think of plenty of people with a perfectly French pedigree who DO contribute a lot to French society, and plenty of people with a mixed pedigree who do NOT.

And my point is precisely there : doesn't that mean that the issue of national identity is a tad more complicated than the right set of DNA and a shining ancestry tree ?

Ahh those imper...ehem republican words. Allez je botte en touche. Funny stuff. Subjectivity is fascinating. Same POV different conclusions. A la tienne.

[Ericsson]

you guys stop wasting yourselfs
very extravagant in your B.S.
Go to wikipedia...

[Zarathustra]

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/05/16/france.sarkozy/index.html

Sarkozy set to take oath of office

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/WORLD/europe/05/16/france.sarkozy/story.chiracsarkozy.afp.gi.jpg
Outgoing French President Jacques Chirac, left, welcomes Nicolas Sarkozy at the Elysee Palace.


PARIS, France (CNN) -- France's Constitutional Council declared Nicolas Sarkozy their new president Wedensday after he arrived at the Elysee Palace for his inauguration ceremony.
Arriving a few minutes early, Sarkozy received his first military salute and made the long walk up Elysee Palace yard. The conservative will replace his rival and former mentor, outgoing leader Jacques Chirac, who is stepping down after 12 years in power.

Chirac greeted his replacement on the red carpet of and the two stepped inside the palace at approximately 0900 GMT.
After meeting privately for approximately 30 minutes, the two emerged in the yard where Sarkozy walked Chirac to his car and said goodbye. Chirac left the Elysee Palace, expected to travel to his temporary Paris apartment across from the Louvre Museum.

Stylistically different from his predecessor, Sarkozy is expected to catalyze the country with swift reforms and his cabinet of ministers is expected to represent a radical departure from the Chirac era.
Even before taking office, Sarkozy began gearing up for presidential duties, meeting with leaders of the Socialist party as well as union leaders to organize his cabinet and lay out his vision for France's future.
The ambitious and politically-young 52-year-old has been keen to distance himself from Chirac's policies in recent years seen as a cause for the country's economic stagnation and high unemployment.
Sarkozy is seen as a bustling modernizer, expected to bolster France's role in global affairs as well as improve economic conditions.
He's already laid out plans to form new ministries of economic strategy and employment, sustainable development as well as immigration and national identity.

While many are cautious of his reforms, criticizing them as potentially brutal and xenophobic, Sarkozy has embarked on an apparent census-building charm offensive in recent days to pave the way for coming change.
CNN's French Correspondent Jim Bittermann said Sarkozy has been making inroads with potential rivals in an effort to help ease his way in to the kind of reforms he put forward during his campaign.
Meeting with rivals and leaders from worker unions as well as tapping opponents for high-level cabinet positions, Sarkozy is attempting to change the face of French politics. Part of his initiative includes appointing up to three Socialists in his cabinet, Bittermann said.
He added that Sarkozy's decision to cut his cabinet posts from 30 to 15 and seek to fill positions with opponents has caused "anguish and despair" among disillusioned members of his own party.
"Nicolas Sarkozy prepares a ministerial big bang," said a headline on the front page of the French daily La Figaro.
Sarkozy is expected to fly to Germany following the ceremony to meet with German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

Famed Socialist

In an effort to balance out criticism for his pro-American leanings, Sarkozy is expected to appoint a famed member of France's Socialist Party, Bernard Kouchner, as Foreign Minister.
While Socialist leaders have criticized his appointment, Kouchner, a former health minister and renowned founder of the Nobel-prize-winning organization Medecins Sans Frontiers (Doctors Without Borders), is said to have agreed to the appointment, a ******* report said.
As part of the festivities, Chirac will be handing over secret codes of France's nuclear strike force to Sarkozy, the report said.
Following an official announcement of results by the head of the Constitutional Council, Sarkozy will receive the insignia of office in the Elysee's plush Salle des Fetes, before making his first speech as head of state to a gathering of friends, family, and leading politicians.

[Sharp]

lol, i seen it to the tv , just looks like napoleon is come back.

il aurait quand meme pu s'agenouiller pour se faire adouber , après le discours de l'ancien chef de l'assemblée national ...

btw, the sarkozy girlz are marvellous , hey, maybe a charm from the east girl's LOL

[Atlantic Friend]

lol, i seen it to the tv , just looks like napoleon is come back.

il aurait quand meme pu s'agenouiller pour se faire adouber , après le discours de l'ancien chef de l'assemblée national ...

btw, the sarkozy girlz are marvellous , hey, maybe a charm from the east girl's LOL

They are not his. They are his stepdaughters, from when his wife was married to a TV host. IIRC only the little boy is his kid.

[Atlantic Friend]

Ahh those imper...ehem republican words. Allez je botte en touche. Funny stuff. Subjectivity is fascinating. Same POV different conclusions. A la tienne.

Cheers then, Stéphane. Time will tell and help separate the grain from the chaff !

[Lokos]

Fact is, I don't think national identity should be about having the right ancestry, the right skin complexion, the right religion, or having been born in the right place.


The Republic was born on the foundational ideals of liberty, egalitarianism and fraternity! I have a very romantic view of 18th/19th century France, and consider it the first real nation state; defined by French patriotism rather than French blood. The purest French are those who do France the most honour!

My .02 francs.

Lokos

[Atlantic Friend]

The Republic was born on the foundational ideals of liberty, egalitarianism and fraternity! I have a very romantic view of 18th/19th century France, and consider it the first real nation state; defined by French patriotism rather than French blood. The purest French are those who do France the most honour!

My .02 francs.

Lokos

I'll chime in my own 0.02 francs (nah, let's be kingly generous here, my 0.02 Euros) and say I share that vision, romantic as it may be sometimes. Purity of the blood matters less to me than purity of the heart, so I regard immigration as neither a good or a bad thing per se, but as a demographic trend able to bring both problems and opportunities.

It appears I do have to eat crow, though -and so I should at least cook it myself. I implied in a previous post that most people in France had a foreign ancestor, and it seems this can be said of "only" 14 million Frenchmen, or 22.5% of the population. I guess I could still claim to be right if I chose Neanderthal France as my work hypothesis, but that would make little sense. So...mmmm, delicious crow you're missing here, gents. There's even a French recipe for crow : put the crow on a brick, and place both in a hot oven. When the brick is edible, so is the crow.

[Moledet]

They are not his. They are his stepdaughters, from when his wife was married to a TV host. IIRC only the little boy is his kid.
I thought the two older boys with the long hair are his too.
Oh and nice ceremony, impressive.

BTW, I've heard the FM is going to be a Jewish doctor.

[Martel]

Right, the 2 older boys are from Nicolas' first marriage.
The 2 (pretty) girls are from Cecilia's first marriage.
The little kid if the only child from Nicolas and Cecilia.

[Martel]

Here they are :

http://eur.news1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/xp/afpji/20070516/070516122200.krvzs6jn1_nicolas-sarkozy-entoure-de-sa-famille-le-16-mai-20b.jpg

[Atlantic Friend]

I thought the two older boys with the long hair are his too.
Oh and nice ceremony, impressive.

BTW, I've heard the FM is going to be a Jewish doctor.

It's going to be Bernard Kouchner, the founder of Médecins Sans Frontière, who spread the "French doctors" cliché from Afghanistan to Africa. I have no idea whether he is Jewish, though. But he's taken unusual stances on Israel and even Iraq, the kind of which you don't expect a prominent Socialist figure to take, that's for sure. He usually tops any list of "Most admired living person" contest in France.

Hubert Védrine, a very shrewd and competent diplomat (if considerably less dear to Israel and the US) will probably be given some special diplomatic missions to make good use of his extensive contact network in the Middle-East. That's two Socialist heavyweights he got to "defect" here, and that is quite impressive. I must say I didn't see that coming at all - I thought he would make overtures to Centrists, not to his former adversaries. Now it seems Bayrou's and Royal's only viable strategy is to hope the other's party explodes first, so they can recruit the defectors and raise their flag over the the rubble.

I too thought the ceremony went nicely and stately. Thanks ! :)

[Atlantic Friend]

I thought the two older boys with the long hair are his too.
Oh and nice ceremony, impressive.

You're right, I too was misled by the fact little Louis is the only child he had with his current wife. I hope the kids won't start a political career like Royal's - I hate dynasties.

[Sharp]

the more i see my record of the show, the more i'm thinking we are back in napoleon time.
i don't know, even with his children , with all that domestic , with all theses military generals, the first thing i tough when i see his kid with the military guy , was "you will take place of your dad and lead the republic when he will fail" ..

[Finlander]

I thought the two older boys with the long hair are his too.
Oh and nice ceremony, impressive.

BTW, I've heard the FM is going to be a Jewish doctor.

...and the minister of immigration will be an israeli IDF police officer and the son of former israeli nazi hunters...
Are jews taking over France? Elect a jewish candidate for president and he fills the various goverment posts with other jews? Or is this just another "coincident"?

France is becoming like the USA!

[Martel]

...and the minister of immigration will be an israeli IDF police officer and the son of former israeli nazi hunters...
Are jews taking over France? Elect a jewish candidate for president and he fills the various goverment posts with other jews? Or is this just another "coincident"?

France is becoming like the USA!
Is this a joke ?

[DeltaWhisky58]

...and the minister of immigration will be an israeli IDF police officer and the son of former israeli nazi hunters...
Are jews taking over France? Elect a jewish candidate for president and he fills the various goverment posts with other jews? Or is this just another "coincident"?

France is becoming like the USA!

Take a break - racism like that will not be tolerated.

[beta]

Congratulation to President Sarkozy and congratulation to the French voters.
Genuine interest here: is Pres. Sarkozy Jewish in heritage?

[baboon6]

Congratulation to President Sarkozy and congratulation to the French voters.
Genuine interest here: is Pres. Sarkozy Jewish in heritage?

His maternal grandfather was a Jew (originally from Salonika) who converted to Catholicism when he married a French woman in 1917.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Sarkozy

[Sharp]

His maternal grandfather was a Jew (originally from Salonika) who converted to Catholicism when he married a French woman in 1917.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Sarkozy

~100 years ago.
i don't even see why we are speaking about it.
nobody would mind if it was about a german (excluding a nazi one, maybe) or italian "heritage".

[DeltaWhisky58]

Congratulation to President Sarkozy and congratulation to the French voters.
Genuine interest here: is Pres. Sarkozy Jewish in heritage?

Does it matter?

[beta]

Does it matter?
No. It does not matter. What matters is what he does as President. It's just an interest to know more about the new president. No more, no less. It probably stems from the fact there was some concern of rising anti-Semite in France a few years back. That seemed to have been overblown.
But why the instant defensive posture re. questions of Jewish heritage? Genuine questioning is not an automatic racism, or anti-Semite. Relax.

[DeltaWhisky58]

Here in the UK, we have had a Jewish prime minister (albeit a long time ago), party leaders and government ministers which Jewish backgrounds - why on earth should it matter as long as they do their jobs properly. Even if they don't, it's down to incompetence, not Jewish roots. The sooner people get over this the better.

His Jewish roots are irrelevant, he is French and that is all that should matter for you.,

[beta]

Here in the UK, we have had a Jewish prime minister (albeit a long time ago), party leaders and government ministers which Jewish backgrounds - why on earth should it matter as long as they do their jobs properly. Even if they don't, it's down to incompetence, not Jewish roots. The sooner people get over this the better.

His Jewish roots are irrelevant, he is French and that is all that should matter for you.,
What's the matter with the temper tantrum? I simply asked an informational type question re. the new president. I did not suggest or imply any connection between anyone's competence or lack of it to his/her heritage. You seemed to connect the dots that were not simply there. Chill out, man. Don't be hypersensitive and seeing anti-Semitism or racism everywhere.
completely off topic, but by your line of reasoning it's completely irrelevant and should be ignored that Nelson Mandela was the first black president of SA; it only mattered that he is an African or more precise South African? If that's what your thinking and what you go by, great, but don't think of racism when people noted his black roots and celebrated

[DeltaWhisky58]

What's the matter with the temper tantrum? I simply asked an informational type question re. the new president. I did not suggest or imply any connection between anyone's competence or lack of it to his/her heritage. You seemed to connect the dots that were not simply there. Chill out, man. Don't be hypersensitive and seeing anti-Semitism or racism everywhere.
completely off topic, but by your line of reasoning it's completely irrelevant and should be ignored that Nelson Mandela was the first black president of SA; it only mattered that he is an African or more precise South African? If that's what your thinking and what you go by, great, but don't think of racism when people noted his black roots and celebrated

I beg your pardon? What temper tantrum? I merely pointed out that his Jewish heritage should be of no consequence.

I suggest you drop the aggressive attitude or your stay here is going to be very short indeed!

I will make the decision whether or not I perceive a post to be racist/anti-semitic and whether it is relevant, when you are a modertator I'll ask for your opinion.

[Atlantic Friend]

...and the minister of immigration will be an israeli IDF police officer and the son of former israeli nazi hunters...
Are jews taking over France? Elect a jewish candidate for president and he fills the various goverment posts with other jews? Or is this just another "coincident"?

France is becoming like the USA!

France had a Jewish prime Minister (which at the time had basically all the powers of the executive branch) a long time ago, in 1936. It was Léon Blum, a great statesman and lawyer. Then in the early 1950s we had another Prime Minister with Jewish roots, Pierre Mendès-France. Since then, we have had Jewish ministers, like Socialist heavyweight Dominique Strauss-Kahn, Kouchner, etc.

Last time I checked nobody - particularly in Israel might I add - has ever accused France to have been taken over by Jews.

Just as former PM Lionel Jospin's administration hasn't been the signal of a protestant takeover of France, or that the nomination of Ministers Azouz Begag or Hamlaoui Mekachera a sign of a Muslim takeover either.

[beta]

I merely pointed out that his Jewish heritage should be of no consequence.And I agreed earlier that it's of no consequence-just merely a passing interest. Much ado about nothing.

I suggest you drop the aggressive attitude or your stay here is going to be very short indeed!
Pardon me! What aggressive attitude? I did not threaten anyone, nor called anyone names, nor shouted down any body. No inappropriate use of language. Don't understand how is that being aggressive. But if you want to drop the hammer, fine. I'd be willing to continue the discussion in PM.
Sorry to hijack and ruin the thread in the last few posts.

[DeltaWhisky58]

You accuse me of displaying a temper tantrum - where. Check your PM, and then learn some manners.

[Clearday-TRForce]

No suprise for France, we same, there are many Jewish rooted high officers and businessmen in Turkey in Army, in Government, in other areas...

such as, some of them;

- Gad Franko
- Samuel İzisel
- Mişon Ventura
- Salamon Adato
- Samuel Abrevaya
- many....





All The Jews of the World who have been expelled are running to Turkey
H. Dernschwam 1553-1555

[DeltaWhisky58]

Gentlemen, either get this thread back on topic, or risk seeing it closed.

The topic is Nicolas Sarkozy, the new French President, not this history of the Jewish diaspora over the past 500 years.

[daily666]

Well, better late than never. Congratulations to France with the new president!

Good luck, and I hope he'll be more in touch with the internal and foreign issues than the late one and while me being rather anti-socialist I think it was a good choice.

[Sharp]

http://www.youtube.com/v/ht1lq1-71Kg
video of the sarkozy show & his family
too bad my record crashed during the first minutes :(

[Ivan le Fou]

I'm glad to have Kouchner as a Foreign Minister.




He deserves it.

[magic_flight]

[...] and while me being rather anti-socialist I think it was a good choice.
ahemm...

but Sarkozy is the embodiment of anti-socialism!

:)

[daily666]

ahemm...

but Sarkozy is the embodiment of anti-socialism!

:)

that's why I think it was a good choice mate :)

[Sharp]

well, he's all for a strong european union.
but... what about poland?

[magic_flight]

well, he's all for a strong european union.
but... what about poland?
I think that in the end, Poland, the UK and the Czechs will stay outside of the circle, doing nothing but whining...

I wish they make up their minds about the EU, but don't see that coming... :-(

[Sharp]

that's it, Bernard Kouchner is the new Foreign affairs minister of Sarkozy's government. but they put François Morin from UDF to the MoD :cantbeli:(oh god why do you punish us like that!!)

[daily666]

well, he's all for a strong european union.
but... what about poland?


I think that in the end, Poland, the UK and the Czechs will stay outside of the circle, doing nothing but whining...

I wish they make up their minds about the EU, but don't see that coming... :-(

The Brits or Poles didn't weaken the EU, after all, weren't the French the ones who actually REJECTED the Euro constitution because they were scared by the Polish plumber? When speaking about strong EU why don't you look at your own backyard.

[Martel]

weren't the French the ones who actually REJECTED the Euro constitution because they were scared by the Polish plumber?
I see this urban legend about "French scared by the Polish plumber" has been widespread ...
It was ****ounced once by a "yes voter" politician to caricature the "no voters".

[Atlantic Friend]

that's it, Bernard Kouchner is the new Foreign affairs minister of Sarkozy's government. but they put François Morin from UDF to the MoD :cantbeli:(oh god why do you punish us like that!!)

Well, he had to give the UDF crowd a big ministry to detach more people from Bayrou's Democratic Movement. And Morin won't be so bad - ministries rarely run the show on defense, the President and the military "lobby" (general and industrialists) usually do.

[Atlantic Friend]

The Brits of Poles didn't weaken the EU, after all, weren't the French the ones who actually REJECTED the Euro constitution because they were scared by the Polish plumber? When speaking about strong EU why don't you look at your own backyard.

The "Polish plumber" was a mere media symbol. The reason the French voters did not support the Treaty for a European Constitution was that the goddamn document was illegible and incomprehensible for any country bumpkin who had not spent the last 20 years working in Brussel's corridors of power.

The Bolkenstein Directive allowing social dumping withing the EU didn't help either, sure, but miostly people felt they were asked to write a blank check to a bunch of lawmakers to do things nobody could figure out. It's hard enough when it's your homegrown politician who pretends to do that using 300 simple words, it's downright impossible to do it when it's a group of lawmakers who present you a 300-page document.

[BRAVEHEART]

Just anothe rrcist poodle to America
:cantbeli:

[DeltaWhisky58]

Just anothe rrcist poodle to America
:cantbeli:

Go away! :bash:

[daily666]

The "Polish plumber" was a mere media symbol. The reason the French voters did not support the Treaty for a European Constitution was that the goddamn document was illegible and incomprehensible for any country bumpkin who had not spent the last 20 years working in Brussel's corridors of power.

The Bolkenstein Directive allowing social dumping withing the EU didn't help either, sure, but miostly people felt they were asked to write a blank check to a bunch of lawmakers to do things nobody could figure out. It's hard enough when it's your homegrown politician who pretends to do that using 300 simple words, it's downright impossible to do it when it's a group of lawmakers who present you a 300-page document.

We must not forget one of the biggest supporters of the Treaty for a Euro Constitution, a co-author and head of the convention was a former French President Valéry Giscard d'Estaing. I know the "Polish Plumber" was more of a symbol for the "no" voters rather than a real threat, but it's meaning spilled all over Europe.

Sarkozy will have a damn tough job pushing all his reforms through the EU legistlation and comissions. IIRC some of them are not Union friendly.

[stonecutter]

Well, he had to give the UDF crowd a big ministry to detach more people from Bayrou's Democratic Movement. And Morin won't be so bad - ministries rarely run the show on defense, the President and the military "lobby" (general and industrialists) usually do.

So, did Kouchner and Morin "defect" from their parties to join Sarkozy's cabinet? Are they now villified by Royal and Bayrou's camp for having done so?

Interesting about Kouchner -- I was just reading a book about his conversations with the late Abbe Pierre. Kouchner being an atheist, and Abbe Pierre being Abbe Pierre, it was a good discussion. Interesting how intellectualism is still a big selling point in French politics (and that's a good thing). I had no idea that the founder of Medecins Sans Frontieres (Doctors Without Borders) was still in politics.... Wonder what kind of a Foreign Minister he'll make. Good to see people of that calibre in the French government, though.

[Ramallah]

Hello, Make the translation of this article :

http://sindibad.fr/spip.php?article143

[Ivan le Fou]

Hello, Make the translation of this article :

http://sindibad.fr/spip.php?article143

Do it yourself. :bash:


Rumors about Sarkozy's politic (friend of zionism, Bush, harted of palestine, etc...) are useless.


Try to to see a bit farther than that...

[Ramallah]

My article speaks about the appointment of the Minister Kouchner.

Sarkozy said that it will be with the "oppressed" and indeed we go to see that.. :)

[Ivan le Fou]

Kouchner is not the subject of your article.



And its problematic is more about the influence of things like CRIF on Sarkozy.

[Ramallah]

Kouchner is not the subject of your article.



And its problematic is more about the influence of things like CRIF on Sarkozy.

Ha, un français ! :oops:

[Martel]

Ha, un français ! :oops:
Get your racist links for you and your "friends".
La France, tu l'aimes ou tu la quittes.
(France, love it or leave it)

[Ivan le Fou]

That's not really true...


It is not racist at all. But this article want to suggest that Mr Sarkozy is manipulated/used by more "important" people, and that decisions would be taken under some kind of pressure.

A bit like what we used to say in the past concerning Mr Bush and his government during the 9/11 - Iraq crisis.

[Atlantic Friend]

So, did Kouchner and Morin "defect" from their parties to join Sarkozy's cabinet? Are they now villified by Royal and Bayrou's camp for having done so?

Interesting about Kouchner -- I was just reading a book about his conversations with the late Abbe Pierre. Kouchner being an atheist, and Abbe Pierre being Abbe Pierre, it was a good discussion. Interesting how intellectualism is still a big selling point in French politics (and that's a good thing). I had no idea that the founder of Medecins Sans Frontieres (Doctors Without Borders) was still in politics.... Wonder what kind of a Foreign Minister he'll make. Good to see people of that calibre in the French government, though.

You bet - Kouchner has been expelled from the Socialist Party, who now can claim Sarkozy isn't making any opening to them (if they expel every guy that takes the olive branch, I guess that will be a self-fulfilling prophecy).

Bayrou's retaliation will be to present officially-sanctioned candidates where the "UDF defectors" (Morin and every UDF member willing to run under UMP flag or to negociate mutual desistment agreements with the UMP) normally run. But there's less pressure there, as Bayrou seems to be expecting part of the Socialist party to declare independence and be ready for a center-to-center-left party of some sort. Basically this is also what the Socialists are waiting for regarding Bayrou, so it's a race between them. The first party which explodes will provide members and voters to the other.

[Ivan le Fou]

I really don't understand why the PS is expeling them.


It sounds so childish to me, willing to distabilise the government so early.


Useless.

[Ramallah]

Get your racist links for you and your "friends".
La France, tu l'aimes ou tu la quittes.
(France, love it or leave it)

Ce lien "raciste" comme tu dis et passé dans un journal nationale, "le canard enchainé", ne rage pas le Frontiste. Pour info', je suis autant français que toi, prouve moi le contraire, monsieur "Charles" le xénophobe :)

( 10.4% au faite p-) )

[Martel]

Ce lien "raciste" comme tu dis et passé dans un journal nationale, "le canard enchainé", ne rage pas le Frontiste. Pour info', je suis autant français que toi, prouve moi le contraire, monsieur "Charles" le xénophobe :)

( 10.4% au faite p-) )
I'm not frontist, I didn't vote for JMLP, this guys is antisemitic and de facto a friend of islamists your friends.
I voted for Sarkozy.
"Tout Sauf Sarkozy" didn't work very well hu ? 53% rofl

[Atlantic Friend]

I really don't understand why the PS is expeling them.


It sounds so childish to me, willing to distabilise the government so early.


Useless.

To try and keep control of their heavyweights, I guess. Plus, they want to be the opposition party, not a coalition member.

[Wall]

People get president they deserve, this time good president.-
Well... Sometimes looks like they deserve bad president. Which isn't fair to good inviduals. (And Ramallah isn't good..)
Sarkozy is sunshine in Europe captured by left-wingers.

[roland]

Hello, Make the translation of this article :

http://sindibad.fr/spip.php?article143

That's about Vedrine who was thought for foreign ministry.
It's probably true that some Israeli religious extremists tried to use some lobbies in France against Vedrine. That's not very friendly from Israel but we've seen much worse and aren't expecting much anyway after 40 years of antifrench brainwashing.
Doesn't mean those lobbies had any influence at all in the decision though.
But some try to give importance of this in an atempt to create religious tensions in France. That's not the first time some tried to play there little Gaza game here. pityfull. We don't want this kind of religious sh:t in France.
I hope that with Sarkozy it's the beginning of a new and more clear and firm approach about secularism for the next generation.

[Sharp]

muslim or jewish lobbys : same sh*t, same fight. like you said, we don't want such things in our society.
we can't say they aren't existing but the less they will stay close of us or give them importance, the best we will be.

[stephane from Paris]

I'm not frontist, I didn't vote for JMLP, this guys is antisemitic and de facto a friend of islamists your friends.
I voted for Sarkozy.
"Tout Sauf Sarkozy" didn't work very well hu ? 53% rofl

Using Martel as name and saying the things i read from you: what a joke!

UMP/PS two faces of the same piece, you'll be disapointed by your Sarko , he'll never practice what he said.

"journalistes artistes et politiciens se relaient l'antenne et vous donnent la Haine!" IDF lyrics.
To be read a book from one of the BEST french still alive: adieu ma France du General Bigeard

[Guerrier_Franc]

To be read a book from one of the BEST french still alive: adieu ma France du General Bigeard


i believe General Bigeard prefered Sarkozy for this election.

[stephane from Paris]

For sure, but read his book...

[Martel]

Using Martel as name and saying the things i read from you: what a joke!

UMP/PS two faces of the same piece, you'll be disapointed by your Sarko , he'll never practice what he said.
Yep "UMPS" was another slogan of your champion, unfortunately for you he didn't win, don't talk about joke, the joke is JMLP saying "occupation of France was not inhuman".

[Ivan le Fou]

Using Martel as name and saying the things i read from you: what a joke!

UMP/PS two faces of the same piece, you'll be disapointed by your Sarko , he'll never practice what he said.



Well if the left get the majority at the legislatives then yes, Sarko won't be able to do what he promised.

Because the left will adopt a politic of opposition.

[stonecutter]

Well if the left get the majority at the legislatives then yes, Sarko won't be able to do what he promised.

Because the left will adopt a politic of opposition.


And once again France will be paralyzed by a lack of effective politics and leadership.

[Atlantic Friend]

And once again France will be paralyzed by a lack of effective politics and leadership.

It wouldn't be so much as a lack of leadership as it would be a government forced by the Constitution to focus on internal issues, where it would have the legitimacy to act, and France absent from the world's stage.

But that is a very unlikely scenario. Polls give the UMP a large majority, and the challenge the Socialist party is facing is more to maintain than to expand their Congress power base.

[stephane from Paris]

Yep "UMPS" was another slogan of your champion, unfortunately for you he didn't win, don't talk about joke, the joke is JMLP saying "occupation of France was not inhuman".

Bad luck guy, i voted for Villier, i'll voted for FN only when JMLP and his friends who likes too much Vichy will leave.
You don't like muslims but votes for a guy who want building mosquees with our taxes, a guy who create UOIF, who help the born of islamic schools, who want ethnics quotas ... and a guy who's supported by employers (the ones who asked for massive immigration that permit to maintain low salaries).
excellent!
For sure sarko will act for economy but not for massive immigration.

[Atlantic Friend]

Bad luck guy, i voted for Villier, i'll voted for FN only when JMLP and his friends who likes too much Vichy will leave.
You don't like muslims but votes for a guy who want building mosquees with our taxes, a guy who create UOIF, who help the born of islamic schools, who want ethnics quotas ... and a guy who's supported by employers (the ones who asked for massive immigration that permit to maintain low salaries).
excellent!
For sure sarko will act for economy but not for massive immigration.

I'd better have the UOIF than leave French Muslims more open to outside influences. To quote terry Pratchett, and with a lot of cynical sarcasm included, "if we are going to have crime, then better be organized crime".

As for quotas, I don't like them too muc, but if that allows good elements to rise up to the surface instead of being stuck in the bottom of society, why not ? I have Muslim friends who hold officers' billets in the French Army, and I wouldn't engage in any contest about who's "Frencher" with them.

as for him being supported by the employers, I rfail to see how it would be a bad thing - last time I checked, employers were called so because they employed people, wich seems a better option than them not doing so. And come to think of it, I don't care too much if the guy they employ is calld Mamadou, Nordine or Jean-François, as I prefer to have all three working than sitting on their asses and dealing pot or stolen cellphones.

No offense here, but I never heard Philippe de Villiers actually explain what he would do - he's good at complaining, and yes, he's even good at complaining about the right things. But complaining only takes you this far, and as the saying goes it's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. Fire eater he may have been, but in politics he has given little in terms of candles, to my taste at least.

[Ladislav89]

we got Trianon,now you got Sarkozy :-*$ rofl:backhand:

[nemowork]

Does Sarkozy have a problem with photogs or is it just being caught without his shirt. A dignity of the President kind of thing? You dont expect a national leader to let his emotions run away with him and go face to face with somebody as minor as a papparazi? Sorry, i just caught the holiday video from New Hampshire and i was wondering if its usual behavior for him?