ALICE Packs...or alternatives.

[Lions2012]

Hey all,

I'm a high school student looking at possible colleges all over the east coast and the south. As such, I'm traveling a lot and am getting tired of the duffle bag AND backpack that I have to carry on buses, trains, cabs in order to get my clothes and papers/books/money etc. around. I have been looking deeply into a medium or small ALICE pack as it seems to be able to carry a good amount of clothing (3 to 4 days worth) in the main pack, and still has places for papers etc in the smaller pouches. However, I've never actually seen one up close, and would like to know what you would recommend for my (mostly) urban travel. That being said, I am a Virginia farm boy and love to camp/hunt/and shoot, so I also want something tough. Of the small and medium pack, which do you think would be better suited for my needs (remember, I dont want to look like a german backpacker in the middle of manhattan) Also, if you think sometime besides an ALICE pack would be better, any recommendations are GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks for any advice!

Sean.

[Lerch]

Patrol/day packs seem like a good idea for what you need. They're usually a small 40 litre sack with pouches on the outside. You can stuff you're clothes and maybe a sleeping bag into the sack and get at the rest on the outside.

As for an ALICE pack, they usually run a little bigger, I think 50 litres was the size of my buddies. And of course, there's the three pouches around it, and webbing to hang a canteen pouch if you want.
If you like that, I'd recommend looking for a Canadian P82 Rucksack, since it has an additional pouch on top for things like raingear and covers...

[Lions2012]

Bump. thanks for the reply.

[theholeinthedonut]

If you wanna do some lomger hiking try to get a SPEAR Pack from Bianchi/Gregory, they're not that expensive and top-notch.
http://www.us-elitegear.com/catalog/spear-backpack-system-woodland-camo.htm

[lt tahoe]

Lions--honestly, I'd recommend a Large if you want 3-4 days worth of civvies and extras. A Small is worthless--really tiny. Since you want lower profile, a Medium would do.

Of course, if your budget isn't an issue there are plenty of choices--but the Gregory isn't the best choice.

[theholeinthedonut]

Lions--honestly, I'd recommend a Large if you want 3-4 days worth of civvies and extras. A Small is worthless--really tiny. Since you want lower profile, a Medium would do.

Of course, if your budget isn't an issue there are plenty of choices--but the Gregory isn't the best choice.

There are many good packs around, hiking and trekking used to be my one and everything so I own quite a few of the high end packs Gregory, Kifaru, Arcteryx my favourite is still the Gregory I guess I did at least 800 klicks with more then 30kgs in a Robson from Gregory, the basic design from which the Spear pack was developed, never had a pack that comfy and rugged, indestructible. Mystery Ranch is another brand I heard many good things about and I would like to try. The point is that everone has a different physionomy and for one person one model might be the nec plus ultra for another guy it might just be the other brand that fits best.

One thing is sure, try your pack before you buy it!! Insist on loading it with the maximum weight it can carry, then walk around for at least half an hour, jump, run, try to balance on one foot......stuff like this so you can notice if the pack fits well to your body.

[TacoDelRio]

Gregory = good.
Bianchi = crapola.

You know, Maxpedition makes really nice products that fit the niche you describe. A good bag or small pack to carry your daily crap around in for normal mundane day-to-day crap like school or work.

http://www.maxpedition.com/

$100 or so for a good pack. I've got their Falcon 2 and have positively nothing bad to say about it, and I use it sort of hard. Nothing has broken, no buckles snapped, no stitches loose, nothing. Just a good pack that's there when you need it, and doesn't hurt your back unless you load it wrong.

Falcon 2
http://www.maxpedition.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=12&idproduct=110

I fit all this junk in mine, and it carries it comfortably:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/TacoDelRio/Gear/DSC03526.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/TacoDelRio/Gear/DSC03528.jpg
And you can compact it down real small, so you don't have sh*t flopping everywhere if you don't need to carry alot of junk.
YOU BUY NOW!

[Hispeed1]

Eagle Industries 3-day pack=great kit...

[Hispeed1]

Taco-is that Sapporo beer I see? Heh-heh.

[TacoDelRio]

Taco-is that Sapporo beer I see? Heh-heh.

In a steel can. Great for harsh environments. Takes alot of abuse. Tastes funny at high altitude though.

[Lions2012]

Gregory = good.
Bianchi = crapola.

You know, Maxpedition makes really nice products that fit the niche you describe. A good bag or small pack to carry your daily crap around in for normal mundane day-to-day crap like school or work.

http://www.maxpedition.com/

$100 or so for a good pack. I've got their Falcon 2 and have positively nothing bad to say about it, and I use it sort of hard. Nothing has broken, no buckles snapped, no stitches loose, nothing. Just a good pack that's there when you need it, and doesn't hurt your back unless you load it wrong.

Falcon 2
http://www.maxpedition.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=12&idproduct=110

I fit all this junk in mine, and it carries it comfortably:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/TacoDelRio/Gear/DSC03526.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/TacoDelRio/Gear/DSC03528.jpg
And you can compact it down real small, so you don't have sh*t flopping everywhere if you don't need to carry alot of junk.
YOU BUY NOW!

Damn, that pack just jumped to the top of my list. Is that the olive-drab color they sell, or the black? Also, I'm only 17, so I wouldn't know, but I've heard Sapporo is a good beer. Heard :-)

[TacoDelRio]

Mine is tan. They have black and OD as well. I love this pack. I use it for everything. Small enough for boring crap during the day, big enough for several day trips in the wild.

Sapporo kicks ass.

[TacoDelRio]

For comparison, here it is with a USGI issue puss/ground pad strapped on:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/TacoDelRio/CMF%20San%20Gorgonio%2020070126-27/DSC03966.jpg

And another shot.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/TacoDelRio/DSC03389.jpg

[Lions2012]

Hmmm,

After poking around the maxpedition page and some other sites, I came across the Baby Condor. Despite its name, it is listed as having a greater volume than the Condor II (???) Anyone know anything about it?


link: http://www.2thehilt.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MXPD-BABYCONDOR

[TacoDelRio]

It rides a bit higher. If it's big enough to fit your books, you should be fine. It's wider than the Falcon.

[CPLHUNTER]

Good info as usual Taco...

For a cheap price ($80) I go for the BlackHack X-1 Raptor...

[TacoDelRio]

What Hunter said.

Good pack. Mid-size. Really good price.

[Yeoman]

the raid pack
the cat's ass

[Lions2012]

Thanks for the recs guys, I never would've found some of these otherwise.

[Jsjoholm]

+1 for the Alice packs.
been using my old worn out Alice medium pack with frame as my traveling pack now for the past 4 years for any short trips (1 to 2 weeks) or when I am required to be highly mobile. Takes a bit of extra time during check in at the airport, me using the metal frame and all, but my other rucksack(an Sacci RS2k) also has an external metal frame so I'm used to it.

[DUCKIE]

I've started doing ruckmarchs( in preperation for enlisting) and I though I could get a way with a ALICE pack(medium frameless) I got a while back, but from the skin rubbed raw on my back and my shoulders, it is no longer a viable option. My question is, I know TAG makes great gear and puches, but I have no experience with their packs and i was looking for a nice cheap 3 day and found their Chaos 3 Day pack.I was wondering if it holds heavy loads(60-70 lbs would be the max for now) well and how it preforms? It comes with a hydration system also and for only $130 I am ready to jump on it but I wanted to ask to see if there is anything I should watch out for, even though it is TAG, just being safe.

website for reference:
http://www.optactical.com/tagch3dayasp.html
bigger pic;
http://www.tacticalassaultshop.com/big/t605.jpg

Thanks

[Lions2012]

Duckie,

That TAG pack looks sort of like a blackhawk 3-day pack - which are very nice and extremely rugged. However, they are a little small. The pack that you are looking for should have a TOTAL volume of at least 3000 cubic inches. I looked at MANY MANY MANY packs, and anything less than 3000 wont hold more than about 1.5 days' worth. I ended up getting a Large MOLLE pack from marsgear (www.marsgear.com) which is a shade over 4000 cubic inches. So, good luck on the hunt and let us know what you find, I always love hearing about new gear.

--Seanicus

[Lerch]

From the reviews I've seen (and the few items I've owned) TAG essentially copies already mint designs from other companies, but they don't stiff out on quality. You buy anything from them and you can expect it to last just as long as the high-end retailers (Blackhawk!, HSGI, etc..)

[Sparky2129]

+1 on Falcon II. Taco convinced me...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/Sparky2129/DSC07077.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/Sparky2129/DSC07079.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/Sparky2129/DSC07080.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/Sparky2129/DSC07082.jpg

[Lions2012]

Such a nice pack! Too bad its so small...you really can't fit any large or medium amount of clothing into it. I'll probably pick one up for my day hikes though. Anyone have experience with the slightly larger "Condor II"??

[DUCKIE]

Lions2012-
Thanks, it sounds perfect then cuz Im not looking for something huge. I just need it big enough to stuff full to get the weight, maybe carry my stuff for school (only one more year, then here I come Marine Corps!), and use for camping. Im pretty much set on the TAG pack now since its so cheap ,it comes with the hydration system, and it sounds perfect for what I want to do.That and there is a TAG store right around where I live. I'll get pics up and info about my take on the preformance after my first march with it.

Lerch-
Yeah, I have a pair of TAG M4 doubles for airoft ( hell I think its fun and I plan on enlisting anyway) and I love em. I've used em hard about 4-5 times now,granted not enough to truely test them in any real world sense but still, and they still look brand new. I know TAG is great quality and that was part of the decision to eventually buy it since it will last forever.

Thanks for the help everyone!

[TacoDelRio]

Such a nice pack! Too bad its so small...you really can't fit any large or medium amount of clothing into it. I'll probably pick one up for my day hikes though. Anyone have experience with the slightly larger "Condor II"??

I fit enough extra warm clothing in mine for 2-3 day lightweight alpine-style mountaineering. I don't know of many tougher environments unless you're headed to the Arctic. p-)

Greg, gotta go try yer pack out bro.

[Abe Vigoda]

[quote=Sparky2129;2512362]+1 on Falcon II. Taco convinced me...


Great shots...do you think you could get one more shot with you wearing it? I'm interested to see how it fits across the shoulders.

I'd like to hear how it works for you.

[Lions2012]

Man, those maxpedition packs are nice. I'm really gonna try to get a condor as my 6'6" frame can probably handle the slightly larger pack (:-)).

I have to disagree with your patch, Sparky2129 - "Deeds not words"

I am a writer....haha, but that's another topic :-)

Nice pack!

[DUCKIE]

As promised, pictures of my TAG Assualt pack
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/2893/dscn0552fh3.jpg
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/4230/dscn0553bj5.jpg
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/2846/dscn0554lx7.jpg
So I picked it up on wednesday but didnt use it until today( 56 lbs) and its leaps and bounds better than my ALICE. Its very comfortable ,but at about mile 6 the muscles on the back of my neck started tensing up pretty painfully. When I lifted the straps off my shoulders or took off the pack the symptom left, so this problem is definitely a result of the weight on my shoulders. My question is this normal and will it go away when I start doing marches more regularly or is this just a fact of carrying that much weight on my shoulders? Everything else felt great,well my shoulders and back were a bit sunburnt but thats not the packs fault, it was just my neck that was bothering me.

[Sabre]

As promised, pictures of my TAG Assualt pack



So I picked it up on wednesday but didnt use it until today( 56 lbs) and its leaps and bounds better than my ALICE. Its very comfortable ,but at about mile 6 the muscles on the back of my neck started tensing up pretty painfully. When I lifted the straps off my shoulders or took off the pack the symptom left, so this problem is definitely a result of the weight on my shoulders. My question is this normal and will it go away when I start doing marches more regularly or is this just a fact of carrying that much weight on my shoulders? Everything else felt great,well my shoulders and back were a bit sunburnt but thats not the packs fault, it was just my neck that was bothering me.

How much weight were you carrying? This is just a daysack and probably isn't designed to take/distribute much more than 30lbs. I'm not surprised you're getting discomfort. That said, pain is expected when tabbing! Perhaps you need to build up your shoulders and back more to take the weight. As long as you aren't getting any tingling or numbness down your arms you should be fine though.

Perhaps you should have invested in some retro kit, the lads used to do 20 miles a day with this lot and kept the design for centuries:

;)

[DUCKIE]

Well I was carrying about 56 lbs. I wasnt having any problems with my arms or anything else so I guess I should shut and take it.I'll work on building up my shoulders and back and see how it works out. And thanks but no thanks to that retro kit.

[Lions2012]

Carrying 56 lbs on the shoulders is going to make almost anyone sore. The more you use it, however, the more you should get used to it. With backpacks, it's all about weight distribution. If you're doing some serious camping/overnight stuff, you want the weight on your hips (requiring a belt of some sort) If you're day hiking, with semi-frequent stops, shoulders are fine, just make sure you don't pull any muscles.

What was inside of the pack, DUCKIE?

[Lions2012]

How much weight were you carrying? This is just a daysack and probably isn't designed to take/distribute much more than 30lbs. I'm not surprised you're getting discomfort. That said, pain is expected when tabbing! Perhaps you need to build up your shoulders and back more to take the weight. As long as you aren't getting any tingling or numbness down your arms you should be fine though.

Perhaps you should have invested in some retro kit, the lads used to do 20 miles a day with this lot and kept the design for centuries:

;)

What in the hell is that thing?

[Sabre]

56 lbs is ok in a bergan that is designed to carry that weight. I've had in excess of 100lbs in mine (granted it was sat on top of my webbing, itself pretty heavy!)

As long as there's decent, stiff-ish padding, then the weight will spread out over your whole pecs/shoulder/upper back region. It's when you load up a little daysack with thinner straps and softer padding that the weight goes right on the top of the shoulder/back of the neck and pulls down.

[DUCKIE]

Lions- I put 2 gallon jugs filled with water, 3 1-quart canteens filled, 15 lbs of weights, 3 L in my hydration bladder, a change of clothes( this march was on my way to work), can of spray deoderant, and a small snack.

Sabre- The padding is stiff and the strapps dont seem thin to me so I guess I just have to build up and march frequently, some advil might help too :p The belt on the pack might help some but as of now even with me at 180 lbs and a bit more than normal body fat, the belt doesn't sinch down enough to really get tight up against me to help. I might have to modify it since I dont see myself getting bigger and the goal of this is to slim down and build stamina.

Thanks for all the help!

[Sabre]

DUCKIE: I'd be careful with tabbing on roads with that weight, are you doing it in boots? If you start with too much weight, too fast you will get all sorts of problems. Start off with 20-30llbs and go for a walk around some hills with soft ground. Stay off tarmac for this kind of thing. If you want to lose weight and are stuck in the city, just go running. Buy a good set of trainers and build up slowly. Stuff like this will cause injuries.



What in the hell is that thing?

Just about everything and anything you might need to fill in some barbarians! ;)

[DUCKIE]

Yeah, I've got boots, a pair of Belleville 550ST's as a matter of fact. There are plenty of nice hilly hiking trails around were I live.So I guess I'll back off on the weight for now and start marching on the trails instead. The reason I haven't been doing much running is cuz I it lol but I need to drop my 3-mile time from 23 mins to around 18 mins. Thanks for the insight, I would've d to hurt myself and not be able to enlist while getting ready to enlist.

[Sabre]

The best thing you can do prior to joining up is a) boost your CV fitness and b) Work on body weight exercises

Running is great as you'll be doing a lot of that in basic. Just go out in PT kit and trainers though, leave the boots and weights. If it's boring or you want to vary your training, get a bike or go swimming. If you want to get used to having weight on your back, then as I suggested just go on some fairly light-weight, slow hikes in the hills. That will gradually build up your strength.

As for the body weight stuff that's just press ups, sit ups, pull ups, tricep dips, squats etc. All stuff that's easy to do anywhere. There's loads of methods to increase your reps/stamina on each, just have a look and find what suits you. If you find running boring, then intersperse sets of these exercises at points around your running route. It helps to break up the training. Of course, make sure you stretch off fully after each training session. A lot of injuries are through tight/imbalanced muscles. Again there are loads of stretching guides out there, but general rules are never to stretch cold muscles, always stretch during or after exercise, not before.

Good luck.

[DUCKIE]

Sounds like a good plan, thanks Sabre. Mainly right now over the summer I am focusing on my cardio and endurance becuase next school year(my senior year) I have weight training, to really take care of my strength. My strength currently is comfortably past all minimums of the Marine Corps Physical Fitness test but my ultimate goal in the Corps is Scout/Sniper so I have to get a perfect score.

[Lions2012]

SST, DUCKIE?

Sweet. If you make it, tell us.

[DUCKIE]

SST, what's the T for?
Don't worry, I'll be telling everyone and then tell em again if I make it. But my main concern is boot camp, one step at a time. Also, I really need to get in contact with a recruiter this summer and I'll get that done with in the month.

[Sabre]

Good luck mate, but don't get huge next year. It's not going to help you at all having to carry around extra weight, even if it is muscle. Provided you can comfortably complete all the body weight tests to a maximum score (if that is your aim) then you have got the job done. Bulk does not equal strength, don't be persuaded by all the 'body builder types' to get massive. You need to be lean and strong.

[DUCKIE]

I just went on another march today, this time with only 34 lbs and nothing hurt. Everything was perfect and my pack was nice and comfortable so I guess I'll stick at this weight(especially since I have a nice way to duplicate it everytime). I'll start going on more of the nature trails around my house and splicing in push ups, lunges, and other easy body weight exercises in with that too. I am very greatful for all this help you guys have given me, you guys really saved my ass, and my back.

[Sabre]

No worries. The key to any training is build up gradually.

Good luck and enjoy it.

[DUCKIE]

Yeha, I guess I just tried to go all out too soon. Last question, I promise. The march Ive been doing to work is about 4.5 miles with elevation change of atleast 50 ft at the most and more small hills, Ive been completing this in about 1 hour and 20 mins. My question is this a good pace or do I need to step it up a bit?

[Sabre]

Depends on how you're doing it. Is that with weight/without weight, walking or running?

[DUCKIE]

With 34 lbs walking.

[Sabre]

That's ok. I don't really have a bench mark for that. All of our 'tests' are either straight running on the flat, or 'tabbing' with weight over the hills.

Personally, I'd just jog/run to work in sports kit. You'll benefit more from a nice comfortable run there and back each day than a long slog with weight.

Training doesn't have to be hard, especially at this stage. Just keep it regular and progressive.

[DUCKIE]

I would run but I havent got any decent running shoes, I guess I have a old beat up pair. I'll try that today. Iwas doing the marchs b/c it was convienent having the pack to carry a change of clothes, deoderant and food but I could still do that with running.Just taking out the weight. Personally I dont think my training is hard right now, infact I find the marches quiet relaxing and soothing but thats just me but I will spice in the running on the week days and then march of the weekends.
Thanks!

[oscarni]

Hey!

To be honest... I think the best pack on the market a the minute is the Lightfighter RAID Pack, I bought it when I was in the states for the year in PA. So its been up and down those mountains over the course of my stay. No matter what I keep packing into it, it holds it and keeps expanding. you won't find better.

Plus I was lucky enough to get one in Multicam

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/4577/1000700so6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Shot with KODAK C310 DIGITAL CAMERA (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=KODAK+C310+DIGITAL+CAMERA&make=EASTMAN+KODAK+COMPANY) at 2007-07-20

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/951/1000703jq4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Shot with KODAK C310 DIGITAL CAMERA (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=KODAK+C310+DIGITAL+CAMERA&make=EASTMAN+KODAK+COMPANY) at 2007-07-20

- Phil

[siquq]

Arcteryx Charlie Pack. I love mine, but found the padded straps too long (maybe to fit over armour).

And here's Charlie:
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/9126/guadalupe20009packonlyji2.jpg

[TacoDelRio]

The Arcteryx packs are nice. I'm thinking of an Acrux 55l-65l (or so). Much "nicer" than an ALICE, but they're two different animals, so that goes without saying.

[siquq]

I also like my Black Diamond 16L bullet pack. Just the right size for the bike, or rock face. Easy to tie stuff to. Never gets hung up. Now if it only came in crocodile.

[TacoDelRio]

Too bad they don't make more of those types of products in not-so-bright colors.

I may buy a Black Diamond pack as well. Much cheaper than Arcteryx, and I've had no reason to dislike any of their products I've used in the past.

[siquq]

Yes, Black Diamond is good value. Arcteryx is very well thought out, but hard to justify on my budget.

And my 65L serratus from the 80s won't die, so I will never be able to buy a new, cooler big pack.

[Lions2012]

Arcteryx is definatley a good company to go with. One of their packs is the model that the Marines are basing their new standard pack on.

[HoboWithAK]

Hmmm,

After poking around the maxpedition page and some other sites, I came across the Baby Condor. Despite its name, it is listed as having a greater volume than the Condor II (???) Anyone know anything about it?


link: http://www.2thehilt.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MXPD-BABYCONDOR

I've had one for a few years. It's a ****ing tank, I have zero regrets in buying it on sale for 60$. I only wish it had some sort of waist belt, but I need to get off my lazy ass and make one.

I made a thread about it soon after I got it, i'm not sure if it is still around. I think it was lost in the great forum migration.

[bvvelzen]

It sounds like you put too much weight at the back of the pack, all the heavy stuff should be as close to your back, and between your shoulder blades as possible.

And if not, train your back and shoulder muscles. And keep training, you will get stronger and get used to pains.

At first i needed to stop marching if i had blisters, this week i walkes 16 km with full gear and my feet full of blisters. You get used to pain. and when you do, its not so bad.