New USAF BDU?

[Ricochet]

Im new here (1st post!), so I want to apologize if this has already been talked about here on the forum.

But is what Im seeing in this pic a new USAF camo? I personally greatly dislike the Army's ACU. My blind uncle would see those troops moving through a woodland environment wearing those colors in the ACU. Although, Im sure its wonderful in an urban setting.

But now the Airforce is using those colors? In a Tiger Stripe pattern to boot!?!
I would love to hear whoever came up with these colors opinion on how this is going to endanger the lives of our troops if we ever have to fight a conflict outside the sandbox.

I was planning on joining the AF once I finish college. How are troops supposed to have any confidence in their gear if they are forced to wear something that's ineffective?

Maybe they can get Brittany Spears or that goofball Eminem to model these new uniforms because they "look" cool. :roll:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/dailypix/militarypix/fresh/more/more/even%20more/more/will%20it%20ever%20end/more/070427-F-0560B-804.jpg

[Mablod]

Yup thats the USAF new Airman Battle Uniform.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airman_Battle_Uniform

[udt87]

Oh no... that's horrid. If the Air Force wanted to change up their Battle Uniform or whatever (this goes for the Army as well) I personally think they should've gone with the Canadian style ACU (don't know what it's called). Their uniform works great for woodland areas.

[Ricochet]

Oh no... that's horrid. If the Air Force wanted to change up their Battle Uniform or whatever (this goes for the Army as well) I personally think they should've gone with the Canadian style ACU (don't know what it's called). Their uniform works great for woodland areas.

Its called the CADPAT and it works VERY well for woodland.
How come only the USMC is thinking correctly?

CADPAT:
(This guy is wearing the USMC MARPAT Boonie Hat ~ I guess to compare the two Camo's)
http://www.dkbnews.com/img/2005/06/cadpat1m.jpg

[usm2b]

It freakin looks like tiger stripe ACU's.

[Ordie]

I was planning on joining the AF once I finish college. How are troops supposed to have any confidence in their gear if they are forced to wear something that's ineffective?


Your confidence in the Air Force is guaranteed as long as they issue a row of ribbons for completing a six week boot camp, making sure the air conditioning works, and the beer is cold at the end of the day in your dorm.

[scrybe]

It freakin looks like tiger stripe ACU's.

I can't tell from that pic but I think they digitized tiger stripe. That's what it was in previous pics that have been posted.

[Mablod]

I can't tell from that pic but I think they digitized tiger stripe. That's what it was in previous pics that have been posted.

Yes it is. Don't get the point though, don't think it will make a difference camouflage speaking.

[Ricochet]

Your confidence in the Air Force is guaranteed as long as they issue a row of ribbons for completing a six week boot camp, making sure the air conditioning works, and the beer is cold at the end of the day in your dorm.

Hey, I know that the AF is lax in many of its departments.

But there are a lot of duties in the AF that involve some hardcore battle operations.
Forward Air Controllers and the PJ's just to name two.
Do you know how many SPEC OP's guys count their blessings for a FAC being right beside them in battle?

[velvet-cream]

it's stupid to assume that AF won't be on the ground to do a bit of fighting. If that's the case, why bother giving them small arms training.

The AF still has responsibility to defend themselves, airbases etc. They need an effective camo combat uniform.

And I've already said this in another thread. I think it's stupid for a service to adopt a different pattern combat/field uniform for the sake of distinguishing themselves from other services. If you're in the same military, and in the field fighting side by side with your fellow countrymen, who actually cares about service rivalry?

Leave that sh|t for dress uniforms.

[Lerch]

But now the Airforce is using those colors? In a Tiger Stripe pattern to boot!?!
I would love to hear whoever came up with these colors opinion on how this is going to endanger the lives of our troops if we ever have to fight a conflict outside the sandbox.

You make a good point, but the decision makers foresaw alot of operations in the middle east. That said, if the US does go to fight in a temperate country, then there's still oodles of woodland BDU's in stock that be issued should the need arise.

[velvet-cream]

BTW, how old is the 3 star in that picture? He looks like he's pushing 70.

[Delta88]

Yeah it is a digitized tiger stripe. I personnaly like it, its a hell of a lot better than the original bright blue one we were looking at. As far as camo, it doesn't look to be too effective, but I (and 98% of the folks in the AF) don't need to blend in to my desk and offices. For those of us that are boots on the ground you are either in a "special" enough position that you wear local garb or whatever the mission dictates, or your humping around with the army guys and wearing ACUs.

[Big Bad Bob]

dude yall should see the proposed new AF dress uniform.....

http://www.citamn.afrc.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/060724-F-9999Z-006.jpg

[velvet-cream]

delete..........

[Lt.Havoc]

dude yall should see the proposed new AF dress uniform.....

http://www.citamn.afrc.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/060724-F-9999Z-006.jpg
OMG! Its the Empire! Next we will see Darth Vader accounting to build a weapon to finally destroy the Rebel scum!

No, seriously, that looks horrobile, like out of some Sci-Fi movie and the new Tiger Pattern......I mean, I like Tiger Stripes, but not in that color variation! They look like some Mercs or Solderis from some South American Dicator or something like that, not like US soldiers.

I agree with anyone who thinks that its totally stupid to have any branch of the US Military having thier own Combat Uniforms. Its one Military, so they can have the same Combat Uniforms.

[Big Bad Bob]

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c362/tmmkkt22/AirForceUniformESB1.jpg

[yska08]

OMG! Its the Empire! Next we will see Darth Vader accounting to build a weapon to finally destroy the Rebel scum!

No, seriously, that looks horrobile, like out of some Sci-Fi movie and the new Tiger Pattern......I mean, I like Tiger Stripes, but not in that color variation! They look like some Mercs or Solderis from some South American Dicator or something like that, not like US soldiers.

I agree with anyone who thinks that its totally stupid to have any branch of the US Military having thier own Combat Uniforms. Its one Military, so they can have the same Combat Uniforms.


Well if this uniform comes with an lasersword I'll join the bloody USAF hehehe :) rofl .

But seriously. This uniform doesn't have the "oumpf" that the USMC dress uniform has (HOAAH!!):)

[yska08]

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c362/tmmkkt22/AirForceUniformESB1.jpg

HAHAHAHAHHAHArofl

[Sabre]

Christ, they look like policemen from the 19th century! :lol:

As for the new service uniform, why? I see that the USN have adopted a blue-grey digital uniform for their ratings, also for no purpose. It's just so obvious that each service subsequently felt left out of the 'fancy new digital uniform' party and decided to join it.

US Airmen and Sailors will now look like extras from Street Fighter. Well done.

[Silent 6]

They look like they're giving Darth Vader directions to the next shuttle for the planet's surface.

"TICKETS PLEASE!"

[el borracho]

First off, there have been about a dozen threads about the new USAF bdu over the last couple of years. Second, that dress uniform pic was for a prototype only. Once those pictures got leaked, thousands of Airmen were very vocal about what they thought about that uniform, so the uniform board sh!tcanned it and is working on other designs. Do a little research before posting all these "omfg lolo!ll!" topics. I'm active duty USAF and I agree that we should all have the same uniform, since we defend the same nation and not just the particular interests of our branch. Problem was the Marines patented their pattern and put their logo all over it then fought the other services tooth and nail when they wanted to adopt the MARPAT pattern for their own uniforms. The Army uniform is a pos and everyone knows it. The Navy is working on a new digital bdu as well, which looks as bad, if not worse than this one.

For a good read, check out this link, it's from the company that the AF contracted to make the uniform. They're less than happy with the results:

http://www.tigerstripeproducts.com/airforcetiger.htm

According to the original estimates about a year ago, this pattern was supposed to be available already. They've pushed the date back a couple of times, and now there is a "problem with production." Here's to hoping they keep postponing it until it's fixed.

[Ordie]

Nothing beat's the RAF classic service uniform. Timeless....

[Mablod]

[quote=el borracho;2488828]
http://www.tigerstripeproducts.com/airforcetiger.htm [quote]

So the AF leadership absolutely didn't want a camouflage effective uniform, just something that looks "cool" and defines the AF.
And THIS is what they choose?? It's butt ugly!! :cantbeli:

[Big Bad Bob]

[quote=el borracho;2488828] Problem was the Marines patented their pattern and put their logo all over it then fought the other services tooth and nail when they wanted to adopt the MARPAT pattern for their own uniforms. quote]

I agree, they started this mess

Hope they sh!tcann this airmen BDU too, and just adopt the ACU, no need for 4 different patterns

[aj-0311]

[quote=el borracho;2488828] Problem was the Marines patented their pattern and put their logo all over it then fought the other services tooth and nail when they wanted to adopt the MARPAT pattern for their own uniforms. quote]

I agree, they started this mess

Hope they sh!tcann this airmen BDU too, and just adopt the ACU, no need for 4 different patterns

The Marines were under pressure over the "patent" of their uniform and in late 2003 early 2004 they released the pattern/coloration for use by other services sans the imbedded EGA. By this time the Army had decided it would go its own route. They used the pattern but their own colors, and we all know what a success that is.

I'll try to find the link to the article.

[He219]

Ricochet: If you're going to hyperlink an image from my account in your initial post, then at least cite where you got it.
Why should I go through the trouble finding pix if you don't.
:roll:


http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c362/tmmkkt22/AirForceUniformESB1.jpg
Spotted at the Air Force Academy:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/dailypix/militarypix/fresh/more/more/even%20more/more/will%20it%20ever%20end/more/070504-f-0558k-004.jpg

[Ricochet]

Ricochet: If you're going to hyperlink an image from my account in your initial post, then at least cite where you got it.
Why should I go through the trouble finding pix if you don't.
:roll:




Geez, sorry dude. Im new at this.

[He219]

Geez, sorry dude. Im new at this.
Just don't let it happen again n00b!
:p

[mudbunny]

Has anyone made any Starship Trooper analogies to the new AF Dress-A's?
It also appears from the top pic that the AF has brought Fred Rogers back from the dead.

[lt tahoe]

Spotted at the Air Force Academy:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/dailypix/militarypix/fresh/more/more/even%20more/more/will%20it%20ever%20end/more/070504-f-0558k-004.jpg

Freakin' smacks.

Damn, I could've sworn there was a minimum height requirement in the AF...

[maple.leaf]

Ah the Air Force....

And then they wonder why we grunts call them The Chair Force, The Air Farce, Wingnuts, etc. ....

[el borracho]

We're as disgusted as you all, probably more so. Please direct your criticism to the AF Chief of Staff, maybe he'll listen to you guys, cause the advice of his Airmen doesn't seem to work.

[jetsetter]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/dailypix/militarypix/fresh/more/more/even%20more/more/will%20it%20ever%20end/more/070504-f-1014w-116.jpg

The dress uniform is interesting.

[Roaming East]

Ah the Air Force....

And then they wonder why we grunts call them The Chair Force, The Air Farce, Wingnuts, etc. ....
thats alright, we still call you grunts targets and suckers.

[kaibil1944]

I think that the tigers pattern its history, but its also original coming from the air force. At least the desert and jungle pattern looks great, but i dont think that these suits can make a better job than cadpat, because cadpat rocks, or they should just get back to the olive green suits and brownie for desert :O

[Carrina]

HAHAHAH. :backhand:

Whats up with that odd belt looking thing.... Our new BDUS are blue. Or at least that was the ones they were showing on the base i live. That is just odd. Due to the fact most that wear blue BDUS very cold areas.. Northern Alaska etc.

[James]

dude yall should see the proposed new AF dress uniform.....

http://www.citamn.afrc.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/060724-F-9999Z-006.jpg

Looks like the Battlestar Galactica uniforms.

[el borracho]

According to official AF sources, they have finalized a prototype. It's an open collared version similar to the "Hap Arnold" design that was submitted with the stiff-collar design, except it has smaller lapels and other minor changes. It looks very WWII. I would say it's not a bad idea, except for the fact that the AF was so adamant about making female versions of the new ABU, but the proposed service dress coat is a scaled down version of the men's one. Females even have to wear a male tie with it, not to mention the tailoring does nothing to flatter a woman's shape. This same female SMSgt (from the rest of the pics) was modeling it. The new coat made her look 30 lbs. heavier.

[Carrina]

What if the belt doesnt fit all the way around.... :cantbeli:

[el borracho]

Oh yeah...that suggestion has come up ;). But the AF is trying to cut 40,000 people to pay for new equipment, that seems like a surefire way to make that goal. Make the belts go up to 38 inches...either it fits, or you get discharged. That works in theory, but in practice it would only be senior NCOs, colonels and generals that would get the boot.

[Big Bad Bob]

tada!
http://www.armyairforces.com/forum/upfiles/6323/2F5DF7B4F1804985A8330E174277C31F.jpg

[Carrina]

Oh yeah...that suggestion has come up ;). But the AF is trying to cut 40,000 people to pay for new equipment, that seems like a surefire way to make that goal. Make the belts go up to 38 inches...either it fits, or you get discharged. That works in theory, but in practice it would only be senior NCOs, colonels and generals that would get the boot.

There goes 3/4ths of my shop. :bash:

[usm2b]

Well then, the air force has managed to find every dress uniform that looks completely disgusting on the female body.

[maple.leaf]

If it was tailored at the waist it would actually look a lot better on the women than it does on the men.

[el borracho]

tada!
http://www.armyairforces.com/forum/upfiles/6323/2F5DF7B4F1804985A8330E174277C31F.jpg

That's the older, wide lapel version. The new one looks much worse on her.

[Scrim]

Oh for ****s sake, whats wrong with just a simple flightsuit for working in?
I guess then the pilots would have to get new uniforms so they dont look like everyone else.

[Roaming East]

Oh for ****s sake, whats wrong with just a simple flightsuit for working in?
I guess then the pilots would have to get new uniforms so they dont look like everyone else.

you pretty much nailed it. Pilots get their rocks off by wearing a uniform distinctive to them and get pissy when ever anyone else tries to adopt it for practicality reasons sorta like how Marines are with their MARPAT. F--- the other guy and his requirements, what counts is how I am perceived.
That kinda attitude is very prevalent in the military.

[jagermeister]

who gives a **** how it looks as long as it performs. Function over formp-)

[udt87]

dude yall should see the proposed new AF dress uniform.....

http://www.citamn.afrc.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/060724-F-9999Z-006.jpg

Nah, I like the proposed dress uniform... it looks roughly like proper WWI dress. The high collers are particularly nice.... but the digi's suck.

[Carrina]

who gives a **** how it looks as long as it performs. Function over formp-)


Well it doesnt function on my body, does that count :bash:

[jagermeister]

go naked like myself

[SBL]

Yeah, those uniforms are pretty revolting.

[Carrina]

go naked like myself

I would if i could lil Problem called men. :backhand:

[velvet-cream]

who gives a **** how it looks as long as it performs. Function over formp-)

Well dress uniform is all about looks. :)

[jagermeister]

I would if i could lil Problem called men. :backhand:


ya it can be a "pain in the ass" when your around squids.

[maple.leaf]

I just don't understand why all the US armed forces are all suddenly doing all this messing about with new uniforms and headgear....

[Limeyfellow]

I just don't understand why all the US armed forces are all suddenly doing all this messing about with new uniforms and headgear....

The USMC started it and then the army got jealous because traditionally they got all the new stuff and the Marines got the army castoffs. So they said "screw you guys, we will create new stuff". Then the navy and airforce got jealous that they were left out and said "Oh no! We are being left out. How will we attract new people if we don't have pricey new lazy uniforms for them to wear".

[maple.leaf]

Yeah, I understand the reasons - but that's still not an excuse for any of it...

[Hutz]

Those are some ugly uniforms. We should show those to our guys (non-flying CAF pers) when they complain about having to wear CADPAT.

[Sabre]

I still don't see what's wrong with airmen and naval ratings wearing a comfortable, practical service dress. Just shoes (or ammo boots), trousers and shirt with appropriate head wear. Most just work in offices anyway. Anyone who actually gets dirty and oily gets...a boiler suit! As for the 1-2% who require a disruptive pattern uniform, they just wear what the army wears. Or even better, they could just keep BDU/DCU.

In the UK, everyone has 95's as field kit. RN and RAF personnel wear a service dress on base/camp/board that's practical and identifiable as their service. 'Crab' blue for the RAF, navy blue for the RN ratings. Simple. The only people that need to wear DPM on board a RN vessel are the RM....because they leave it from time to time.

[velvet-cream]

I still don't see what's wrong with airmen and naval ratings wearing a comfortable, practical service dress. Just shoes (or ammo boots), trousers and shirt with appropriate head wear. Most just work in offices anyway. Anyone who actually gets dirty and oily gets...a boiler suit! As for the 1-2% who require a disruptive pattern uniform, they just wear what the army wears. Or even better, they could just keep BDU/DCU.

In the UK, everyone has 95's as field kit. RN and RAF personnel wear a service dress on base/camp/board that's practical and identifiable as their service. 'Crab' blue for the RAF, navy blue for the RN ratings. Simple. The only people that need to wear DPM on board a RN vessel are the RM....because they leave it from time to time.

I can buy the RN wearing whatever sailors wear on ships. But for AF personnel, I still believe DPM or equivalent camo would be a good idea. Airbases get attacked, sometimes they need to move from place to place (outside a building or outside the airbase).
Basically, they still need cams when they are in theatre. And I think a bit more than 1-2% of airmen need cams. Can anyone who has served with the AF in Iraq/Afghanistan comment?

To me in general - if you are carrying a personal weapon, you should be in cams (or navy equivalent for boarding parties).

[el borracho]

Agree, I feel like a poser when I wear camo. I've never been deployed, or even on a field exercise (been in the AF for 5 years). We just don't do those things very often. If it were up to me, we would wear a simple utility uniform like what the Navy wears now. A buttoned shirt and a durable pair of work pants. Make them gray (best camo for flightline operations), and we're good to go. With all this "let's get back to our roots" mentality, they should bring back the khaki 1505 uniform for occasions when a more professional look is appropriate. That will never happen because it goes against the leadership's "warrior ethos" mindset. If I have to sit through another speech by some colonel who tells us "you REMFs are the tip of the spear!" at our stateside base, I'm gonna puke.

[Limeyfellow]

Thats one of the main things that annoy me about the new US airforce uniforms and so on. They go about finding the most expensive way of doing it. That digital camoflage material costs alot of money to print and had to be stiched together in certain ways to get the pattern to work.

You could for a fraction of the price have a utility uniform just as comfortable and useful in a single colour that would work just as well and help identify troops just as easy.

[IFAV]

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c362/tmmkkt22/AirForceUniformESB1.jpg

That´s cool!!!

[IFAV]

Ricochet: If you're going to hyperlink an image from my account in your initial post, then at least cite where you got it.
Why should I go through the trouble finding pix if you don't.
:roll:


Spotted at the Air Force Academy:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/dailypix/militarypix/fresh/more/more/even%20more/more/will%20it%20ever%20end/more/070504-f-0558k-004.jpg
That´s crazy
What in hell is going on???

[el borracho]

Ten-year-old Julian Willis and a special visitor lead Cadet Squadron 39 during a formation at the U.S. Air Force Academy, Colo. The Make-a-Wish Foundation and the Air Force Academy made Julian a "Cadet for a Day". Cadets donate money for the program and have sponsored 22 children since the program started in 2000. (U.S. Air Force photo/Mike Kaplan)

That's the original caption. I guess Darth Vader is the "special visitor".


Back on topic, found this pic today:

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/8306/070514f0578m400rs8.jpg
The ABU doesn't look too bad compared to the ACU, but that might not be saying much.

Hi-res
http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/070514-F-0578M-400.jpg

This pic has me worried. The official statements have insisted that the ABU will be wash-and-wear, and won't require ironing or starching. But this looks like a suspciously sharp crease on the general's sleeve:

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/070504-f-1014w-059.jpg

[maple.leaf]

Basically, they still need cams when they are in theatre. And I think a bit more than 1-2% of airmen need cams. Can anyone who has served with the AF in Iraq/Afghanistan comment?

To me in general - if you are carrying a personal weapon, you should be in cams (or navy equivalent for boarding parties).

Just because you're "in theatre" or carrying a side-arm doesn't mean you need camo. Should all civilian police wear camo too then?

You only need cammies if your job requires you to have a need to be camouflaged - in other words, becuase you're in a combat arms role.

Yes, airbases might get attacked - just like truck convoys get attacked - but you don't need cammies to sit behind the wheel, or to guard the coffee pot.

Like the man said, give the REMFs (pardon the expression) something practical and appropriate to their jobs to wear. Wearing a pair of cammies to sit at a desk doesn not make you a warrior.

[maple.leaf]

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/8306/070514f0578m400rs8.jpg
The ABU doesn't look too bad compared to the ACU, but that might not be saying much.


And they both look like crap next to CADPAT. Just another case of the Yanks trying to be as cool as us Canucks. ;-)

[Sabre]

And failing...p-)


I agree with the 'in theatre' argument. It would be impractical to expect, for example, RAF personnel to wear their service dress in afghanistan. It would be more practical for them to wear desert DPM, which they do, or a suitable overall. However, back in the UK (where they spend most of their time) they wear the 'crab' blue service dress.

It should be fairly apparent to anyone that a grey (?!??) tigerstripe (?!!??) uniform is not necessary to do some filing. It should also be a little embarrassing to anyone who does that job, they know that they will have the p*ss taken out of them by combat arms (and by pilots etc) for wearing an 'office cammo'.

[velvet-cream]

Just because you're "in theatre" or carrying a side-arm doesn't mean you need camo. Should all civilian police wear camo too then?

You only need cammies if your job requires you to have a need to be camouflaged - in other words, becuase you're in a combat arms role.

Yes, airbases might get attacked - just like truck convoys get attacked - but you don't need cammies to sit behind the wheel, or to guard the coffee pot.

Like the man said, give the REMFs (pardon the expression) something practical and appropriate to their jobs to wear. Wearing a pair of cammies to sit at a desk doesn not make you a warrior.

- Civvy police in general are suppose to be seen/identified (ie high profile) unless they are undercover or detectives. And for police who have to do carry out roles other than normal general duties in public, they still have "police" written on their back so they can still be identified as such (eg police overalls, flight suits etc). But police uniform doesn't have that much relevance to this airforce uniform topic.

-What's more appropriate for a clerk working in theatre? Service/barracks uniform that needs to be ironed etc, or a set of low maintenance cams?
- I don't see how a uniform with a camo pattern is inappropriate or impractical for office duties. For mechanics etc, what's wrong with having the overalls in a camo print? Do you think a combat warfighter is going to care that the storeman/clerk/mechanic back in base is wearing camo uniform?
- And sometimes army mechanics need to go out to recover/fix vehicles in the field. They don't belong to a combat arms, but are expected to go out to into the field. Same goes for logistics personnel supplying combat troops.

- truck drivers, they may not need a camo pattern whilst behind the wheel. But what happens when they do get attacked and need to fight?
Fighting is not exclusive to combat arms, especially in current asymmetric warfare.

[usm2b]

ok...so are all those uniforms, minus the BDU's proposed, or no-**** these are the new uniforms?

[el borracho]

The new AF BDU (called the ABU) is a done deal. It's in production as we speak. Any and all pics of service dress posted here were prototypes and speculation. The final version has yet to be posted on this site. I have seen it printed in the Air Force Times, and on the web in some official Air Force websites (accessible by AF personnel only). I mentioned it in a previous post, in but the latest pics I've seen, the jacket looks like the "Hap Arnold" version with smaller lapels and a nicer belt.

The stiff-collar Nazi/Star Wars/Marines version was rejected on the basis of comfort and practicality. Although, many did like the idea and some are calling for a separate dress uniform altogether, like what the USMC has. The service dress/Class A's will be the Hap Arnold style, and the formal dress (equivalent of USMC dress blues) would have a stiff-collar.

[el borracho]

If the ship hasn't completely sailed on this topic, I found this today:

http://www.airforcetimes.com/projects/flash/2007_03_16_afuniforms/

It gives you a 3d view of the proposed new service dress, in both male and female versions (actually there is only one version, and they have a male and female modelling it).

Here's the cover story to this week's Air Force Times. They published the feedback they received from Airmen regarding the proposed service dress.

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2007/05/airforce_dressuniform_070527/

[maple.leaf]

- I don't see how a uniform with a camo pattern is inappropriate or impractical for office duties.


Really? Then I guess there's no hope...



- truck drivers, they may not need a camo pattern whilst behind the wheel. But what happens when they do get attacked and need to fight?
Fighting is not exclusive to combat arms, especially in current asymmetric warfare.

You don't need a camouflage uniform to fight. And simply having one won't make you a better fighter - nor will the simple wearing of a camoflage uniform turn a REMF into a Warrior. No matter what the Air Force PR department would have you believe...

[8thidpathfinderpower]

come on and stop yer belly acheing....this is the newly approved airforce BDU....

[bonesandfiddle]

in my opinion the stand up collar would look decient without the belt with it, it looks stupid.

[martinexsquaddie]

if the raf have to go anywhere remotely dirty they where army kit other wise they wear overalls or blue kit though not so often the attractive spock jacket complete with chip bag hat a truly inspired uniform.

[JimDG]

I think the AF went with a color scheme so similar to ACU in the end because of the decision to use ACU field gear from now on. All future purchases of helmet covers, body armor,web gear pouches,packs and so forth will all be the standard easily acquired ACU pattern/Foliage green color. In fact it's already being issued in the AOR.

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/web/070205-F-6504N-100.jpg

[el borracho]

Sorry to resuscitate this topic, but I came across these pics today:

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/3238/070626f4335a111tp7.jpg

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/2491/070617f4741s119bb8.jpg

A couple pics of the ABU in action (or would it be "inaction"? ;) ). I guess that's up to the viewer to decide, as forward units have been issued sets already. Looks like this is a done deal.

[maple.leaf]

Looks like this is a done deal.

Of course it's a done deal. Did you think the USAF was going to change it's mind about the ABU just becuase of some belly-aching about it on MP.net?

[el borracho]

It's not just here, every USAF forum (official and not) has been bombarded with posts from people disappointed in the ABU. Even those who are now wearing it in theater complain that the material is too thick, which makes them ridiculously hot. Just like the USAF is doing with the PT gear, many expect the ABU to be conveniently tweaked over the coming years without an official statement from the top brass saying "oops, we f***ed that one up."

[maple.leaf]

It's not just here, every USAF forum (official and not) has been bombarded with posts from people disappointed in the ABU.

Interesting. Nice to know that those at the bottom have more brains than those at the top.

[Baboonass]

It's not just here, every USAF forum (official and not) has been bombarded with posts from people disappointed in the ABU. Even those who are now wearing it in theater complain that the material is too thick, which makes them ridiculously hot. Just like the USAF is doing with the PT gear, many expect the ABU to be conveniently tweaked over the coming years without an official statement from the top brass saying "oops, we f***ed that one up."

Everyone bitches and moans when something new comes down the lane, then bitch and moan when it's replaced by something else.

I have some theories about why the Army and AF went to such a non-blending color/design.

It has to do with the nature in which we now fight warfare.

[JimDG]

I wouldn't be surprised if all military uniforms were standardized on a single pattern again in a few years if budgets shrink and congress gets wind of the awful waste and logistics bottlenecks having 3 different camo uniforms and 3 different camo patterns for field gear creates. Then again it's been the norm for dress uniforms since the beginning. The media seem to be able to engineer a scandal involving military gear at the drop of a hat these days.

[Shadowstorm]

Nice uniform for U.S Air Force.

[Baboonass]

I wouldn't be surprised if all military uniforms were standardized on a single pattern again in a few years if budgets shrink and congress gets wind of the awful waste and logistics bottlenecks having 3 different camo uniforms and 3 different camo patterns for field gear creates. Then again it's been the norm for dress uniforms since the beginning. The media seem to be able to engineer a scandal involving military gear at the drop of a hat these days.


Yup.

Dress uniforms are different though. That has far more to do with tradition and pride of your branch than function.

[el borracho]

Most of the troops and military "experts" have been demanding a standardized combat uniform for awhile now, based on budget and other common sense reasons. However the top officials in each branch (remember, these guys have been in for 25-30 years, their branch of service is their life) are usually the ones trying to make their respective forces distinct and more state-of-the-art than the others. I still say take MARPAT, remove the EGA logos, and let everyone wear them. Maybe add a third color option, like urban grays, for personnel working on a flight line or carrier deck.

[EIREGOBRACH]

That U.S.A.F. Tiger stripe uniform is woeful, alright!

[hammerlock]

Most of the troops and military "experts" have been demanding a standardized combat uniform for awhile now, based on budget and other common sense reasons. However the top officials in each branch (remember, these guys have been in for 25-30 years, their branch of service is their life) are usually the ones trying to make their respective forces distinct and more state-of-the-art than the others. I still say take MARPAT, remove the EGA logos, and let everyone wear them. Maybe add a third color option, like urban grays, for personnel working on a flight line or carrier deck.


Did you have a standard uniform for all service for something like 40 years. Before woodland cam. wasn't it that standard green dating back to WW2?

Personally I think its a sign of the time all three branches want their own uniform after years of having the same one. Its not like anyone is going to mix you up for the emeny. And now that all three have the their uniform in production just how much does it cost. Most likely pennies.

Come 20 to 30 yrs from now everyone will be bitching that these classics are being phased out.

[ibstolidude]

Everyone bitches and moans.
Could have ended right there.

Then again, it is Joe's right to bitch.

[Argo AdAm]

Regarding to discussion that took place in a thread "Your camo ideas" which was about if amateurs without any real combat experience has the knowledge and the right to discuss about effectiveness of camo pattern I'm not sure whether I can say a word about this new AF camo but I can ask a question. Was this new AF camo (and Army UCP) created by experts from military and not amateurs...? ;)
Ok, it was supposed to be some kind of joke, maybe stupid. Sorry

[maple.leaf]

Don't start all of that again....

[el borracho]

Regarding to discussion that took place in a thread "Your camo ideas" which was about if amateurs without any real combat experience has the knowledge and the right to discuss about effectiveness of camo pattern I'm not sure whether I can say a word about this new AF camo but I can ask a question. Was this new AF camo (and Army UCP) created by experts from military and not amateurs...? ;)
Ok, it was supposed to be some kind of joke, maybe stupid. Sorry

The AF officials came to this company:

http://www.tigerstripeproducts.com/indextsp.html

...with the proposition to create a distinctive new uniform for the USAF. They wanted the pattern to be unique and indetifiable as Air Force, rather than opt for the best possible camouflage technology. The company readily agreed and produced the first version of the ABU (with blue and gray stripes).

The AF officials were ecstatic and promised the new uniform would be a hit with the Airmen. That backfired, Air Force members took every oportunity to be as vocal as possible to make their disdain for the uniform known. Not wanting to alienate themselves from the rest of the force, the brass announced that a new pattern would be adopted, thereby putting nearly two years of research and development on the original pattern down the toilet.

After the first pattern was scrapped, the Army's new ACU came out. It had a new color concept, as well as an updated ergonomic design and style from the older BDU. The AF wanted to get on the bandwagon with a new "uber-functional" uniform and began announcing that the new pattern would also boast similar functions as the ACU.

In late 2005, the pattern was finally revealed. It is what you see now, a digitized tiger stripe in the ACU colors. Other than that, the style of the uniform is basically the same as the outdated BDU. Some AF members breathed a sign of relief and said "thank God it's not blue and gray," while others again were not satisfied, for a variety of reasons. Based on the overwhelming negative feedback, the company who was comissioned to create the design posted a disclaimer on their website crying about how they could have come up with a state-of-the-art pattern for the Air Force, but the incompetent leadership preferred looks over function. This was a far change from their message posted in 2003 about how proud they were to be selected by the USAF, and how they stood by their product (the hideous blue and gray pattern).

That basically leads us up to today. The finalized ABU is about 4 months away from being issued to trainees at basic, and is already going out to deployers. Over the next decade or so, I predict that minor changes and corrections will come down regarding the ABU, without totally revamping it. If and when the Army decides to phase out the ACU and come up with something different, the ABU is sure to follow.

[Argo AdAm]

Thanks a lot "El borracho" !
In fact, I know about that ;) I've been very interested in camo patterns from years (wrote a few articles on this subject in Polish military magazines). Asking about making new AF camo and Army UCP I tried to be a little sarcastic which wasn't the best thing as Maple.leaf wisely suggested.

[el borracho]

Oh...um...well, you're welcome I guess. Sarcasm doesn't always translate well over the internet. :oops:

[JTAR7242]

And they both look like crap next to CADPAT. Just another case of the Yanks trying to be as cool as us Canucks. ;-)Pffft, CADPAT is too bright to work anywhere but in Canada or a rain forest. And the Canuckistani desert pattern is just a tweaked version of the one the Marine Corps developed.


I do, however, think that the MARPAT woodland would have worked better with a dark brown instead of black.


Having now seen the new AF uniform over here, I feel for the poor zoomies who get stuck with it. The majority of AF personnel are still sporting ACUs, and they can only be picked out because of the sleeve rank insignia. In the future, they will be smirked at for being REMFs, and looking ridiculous. ;)

[maple.leaf]

Pffft, CADPAT is too bright to work anywhere but in Canada or a rain forest. And the Canuckistani desert pattern is just a tweaked version of the one the Marine Corps developed.


Pfffft yourself. ;-) CADPAT TW works great in any green temperate forest or woodland environment. It is way too green for anything sparser though - or for autumn/winter woodland. And the CADPAT AR pattern was designed a good deal of time before MARPAT desert - they just didn't produce and issue it as quickly.

p-) We now return you to our regularly scheduled discussion...

[Baboonass]

ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[JimDG]

Having now seen the new AF uniform over here, I feel for the poor zoomies who get stuck with it. The majority of AF personnel are still sporting ACUs, and they can only be picked out because of the sleeve rank insignia. In the future, they will be smirked at for being REMFs, and looking ridiculous. ;)

Side by side the ACU and ABU uniforms are nearly indistinguishable from more than 50 yards. Slanted pockets that can't be accessed under body armor anyway,Velcro name tapes and a sexy collar aren't all that great of an accomplishment when you really think about it. Pile on some ACU body armor and an ACU helmet cover and you'll be back to having to look for the AF stripes to see who has the higher IQ.

[hardKor439]

Just had an AF friend deploy with the new ABU. I am not an expert in camo patterns, so I won't comment on that, other than it does look similar to the Army UCP, and meh, I am always interested in new camo patterns.

What I will say is that it really is not much different from the BDU in terms of cut/pattern, and it is a heavy twill, versus the 50/50 ripstop of the ACU. So I can't imagine wanting to wear it in the heat of the sandbox, even if you are a REMF.

[delta 6]

almost looks lik old RAF dress uniforms

[delta 6]

almost looks like old RAF dress uniforms

[GETSOME]

How come we never or rarely see pics of the new navy or airforce camo uniforms,have they been approved or issued yet?

[playtym]

This is the first one I've seen of the new uniform being used.

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/9216/070801f9406m205rf3.jpg


Airmen help keep Iraqi supply routes open
Tech. Sgt. Donnie Gallagher and a fellow Airman take a knee while they scan the area for improvised explosive devices in early August in southern Iraq. Sergeant Gallagher is an 887th Expeditionary Security Forces Squadron Scorpion 1-6 squad leader. (U.S. Air Force photo/Staff Sgt. Raymond Mills)

[GETSOME]

Thanks ,but why arnt the guys wearing them more often,the airforce and the navy?

[playtym]

Thanks ,but why arnt the guys wearing them more often,the airforce and the navy?

I don't have a clue. I wouldn't be in a hurry to trade in my DCU's on that stuff though!!!!

[Billy No Mates]

As a civvie know nothing im glad the RAF and RN are not indulging themselves in such a point less manner,as a taxpayer if new camo's were being developed i would want them to effective and available to all the services .
The whole thingl seems a bit mental to me,when not wearing camo why not stick with the Navy wearing navy the Airforce in sky blue and the Army in green a system so simple even i could understand it .

[JimDG]

On the USAF side the New uniforms are just now becoming widely available to the rank and file. I just got 4 sets to go to Iraq. But people who go to Qatar and some other places still deploy in DCU. Overall it's not a bad uniform but the thickness of the fabric is something that will have to be changed if it doesn't wear in like they say it's supposed to do. It's a heatstroke threat for people deployed to the desert even without body armor on. ACU's are like pajamas compared to the heavy almost denim weight fabric of the ABU.

Here's one of the whole thing with the foliage green boots.
http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/070828-F-8574W-203.jpg

[Kilo Golf]

Thanks ,but why arnt the guys wearing them more often,the airforce and the navy?

There is a limited supply right now. They are going to be issued only to deploying guys right now. I just grabbed a set from my buddy cause I am tired of ironing and shining. I will never wear those things in the field though.

--KG

[usm2b]

I will never wear those things in the field though.

--KG

Will the Air Force give you a choice? And I heard they are pretty heavy and not to comfortable in hot weather. Do you find that to be the case?

[el borracho]

I was at Langley AFB recently and snagged a pair. I'm not deploying any time soon, but I got it for the wash & wear capabilities. It's not bad for garrison use, but the fabric is rather thick. People are complaining that the uniform would be too hot for use in the field, but lugging around all your gear in 120 degree weather...I'm not sure if slightly thicker fabric will make all the difference in terms of comfort. Still, imo the ABU breathes a lot better than super-starched BDUs. There is talk that a revamped version with thinner fabric (like the ACU) will make it's way into production very soon.

A lot of people are pretty sore about not having unit patches. The whole point was to save people money with constant sewing costs, yet they opted to keep sleeve rank and even made duty badges available. We should have done an ACU-style tab on the chest for rank insignia. We use that style rank on the goretex jacket and ABU versions are already available. It costs about $1.50, whereas sleeve stripes are $5 a pair, plus the same for sewing.

Regarding the camo design, most people are over it. If the Army can insist that the ACU is effective, then the ABU makes just as much sense, so it's not entirely the AF's fault, I guess.

[helomech]

I kind of like the desert tiger stripe
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/dailypix/militarypix/fresh/more/more/even%20more/more/will%20it%20ever%20end/more/070427-F-0560B-804.jpg

But this seems
http://www.citamn.afrc.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/060724-F-9999Z-006.jpg

Like they're trying to compete with this,which there is no comparison to..
http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/image1.nsf/Lookup/2005429131352/$file/tattoo125_lowres.jpg

[Kilo Golf]

Will the Air Force give you a choice? And I heard they are pretty heavy and not to comfortable in hot weather. Do you find that to be the case?

I get a lot of lee-way(spelling?) on field uniforms. I will only use it for a garrison uniform.

--KG

[Flyboy]

I like the DCUs a lot and they are very comfortable, especially when you're working in the desert heat for so many hours. They had a set of ABUs on display at Bagram and they are a pretty heavy fabric. I remember when I PCS-ed, the cost of sewing, take off patches, and buying new ranks was like $60 total. There's good and bad with ABU/BDU use so we'll just have to live with it. The ABU will be the mandatory UOD by Nov 2011

[GETSOME]

In the ACU and the ABU are the colors the same?

[Kilo Golf]

In the ACU and the ABU are the colors the same?

They are very close.

--KG

[nickless]

The colors aren't only close, they are the same as used in the Army's UCP (foliage green, grey, tan) except for a fourth color, slate blue, added to the ABU.

[maple.leaf]

Here's one of the whole thing with the foliage green boots.


A low-visibility boot colour makes a hell of a lot more sense than that "camo" pattern does though...

[soraflair]

Comparison: USAF
http://www.armyairforces.com/forum/upfiles/6323/2F5DF7B4F1804985A8330E174277C31F.jpg

USMC:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniforms_of_the_United_States_Marine_Corps

[TunnelRat]

A low-visibility boot colour makes a hell of a lot more sense than that "camo" pattern does though...

Unfortunately, that photo doesn't represent the boot's color very well. The common nickname around here is the "Baby poop boot." I will have to be threatened with an Article 15 before I give up my desert boots. They look absolutely terrible. Mint green would be a lot closer to the truth than foliage green.

[haze99]

Speaking of those ABU "boots", just last weekend (Sept 8th & 9th) during my drill, I saw one our enlisted airmen wearing them in his woodland BDU's! And then the next day an officer (Captain) was wearing the Corcoran Jump Boot version. Also in the same uniform! Talk about rodeo clown!

[USMC Tanker]

That's bound to happen when a service branch is drastically changing it's uniforms.

I still remember cringing when I'd see Marines wear black leather boots with their MARPAT cammies when they were still authorized.

[el borracho]

It looks lame, but it's authorized. That reg was announced around late July. All the kiss-ass 2Lt's immediately bought them to pretend that they were high-speed. I would disagree with the comment that "the boots look absolutely terrible." They match perfectly with the rest of the uniform. The practicality of the camouflage is already questionable, so the boots aren't going to make it worse. I decided to save myself a hundred bucks and just wear the tan boots (when I got issued DCUs) with the ABU. It looks very Army-esque from a distance. An Army NCO mentioned that he was on his way to chew me out for wearing a patrol cap instead of a beret, then he got closer and saw I was Air Force.

[JimDG]

The only color I can describe the boots as being is the old German WWII "Feldgrau" or Field Gray which was a sort of greenish gray color uniform often used by Self Propelled gun crews. In no way is it a natural foliage,desert or even rock color but neither was black. In the initial photos of the ABU the boots were brown. What the heck happened to that? Anyway my dilemma of whether to wear desert or baby poo boots has been settled by our vaunted USAF not being able to come up with any 44 long ABU shirts so I just had to pull out 3 sets of crusty DCUs that have been in my closet for 2 years and throw 4 sets of ABU pants, 2 pair boots and 6 tan t-shirts back in the closet. All this 1 day before I leave. Aim High!

[TunnelRat]

And here I thought one of the "advantages" of the new uniform was the some 10,000 different sizing combinations? :roll:

[ZoneOne]

Speaking of those ABU "boots", just last weekend (Sept 8th & 9th) during my drill, I saw one our enlisted airmen wearing them in his woodland BDU's! And then the next day an officer (Captain) was wearing the Corcoran Jump Boot version. Also in the same uniform! Talk about rodeo clown!

Reminds me of some Army cadets I saw wearing desert boots in their woodland BDU's.

[brianm423]

Reminds me of some Army cadets I saw wearing desert boots in their woodland BDU's.

Nothing wrong with that.

[loganinkosovo]

LOL!

http://www.strangemilitary.com/images/content/11338.jpg