Russian Future Soldier Question

[Institutionalized]

I was wondering what Russia is cooking up in terms of future soldier systems. More specifically the weapon types, new uniforms, but most importantly when all this stuff will become operational. I would appreciate any help I can get on the matter. Thanks.

[Ecchi Oni]

Classified, classified, classified, and when needed. Hope this answers your questions.

[Lt.Havoc]

Well, so far, it seems the Russians dont have a similar program like Land Warrior or Future Force Warrior, but you never know what they will come up with. I know they have a new gear set for soldiers, that incoparates body armor, load bearing equitment and so on. They also adopted new Kevlar helments and so on and so forth.

[Sabre]

There is a new system being tested called:

Battle ORder Soldier Combat Harness



(or BORSCH, for short :))

[Lt.Havoc]

There is a new system being tested called:

Battle ORder Soldier Combat Harness



(or BORSCH, for short :))
Do´h! :cantbeli:

[Sabre]

It's a slow day here, I have to make my own amusement.

[oldsoak]

One suspects the Russians need clear proof that future soldier concepts are going to deliver more than just a huge demand for batteries. I would expect them to have an approach to deliver the most pressing needs that deliver the most benefit first. For instance, they might consider the need for fast, efficient secure communication down to platoon and section level as a more effective way of spending millions and more likely to deliver real improvement, rather than getting a soldier so jam packed with fancy gizmos that he needs to be supplied with own wieght in AA batteries every 48 hours.

[IsraDani]

russia doesnt need future soldier.
russia STRONG!

[maple.leaf]

Well, so far, it seems the Russians dont have a similar program like Land Warrior or Future Force Warrior

Actually, they do. Somebody posted some info about on here a few months ago - and if you check the speakers of the recent Future Soldier Systems conferences, you'll find Russian contributors.

[Sergei]

I was wondering what Russia is cooking up in terms of future soldier systems. More specifically the weapon types, new uniforms, but most importantly when all this stuff will become operational. I would appreciate any help I can get on the matter. Thanks.

Google "Barmitsa" battle suit.
The Russian links:
http://www.vk.mesi.ru/arms2102.html

http://www.tolkuchka.dsip.net/index.php?act=Print&client=printer&f=177&t=13884

[Ecchi Oni]

There're rumors of future battle systems in development, but nothing will be shown until it's ready and needed.

[maple.leaf]

It's more than a rumor: apparently the project name is Project Wolf / Soldier 2000.

http://www.frost.com/prod/servlet/report-brochure.pag?id=B314-01-00-00-00

http://www.isrjournal.com/story.php?F=1979432

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2005/04/europes-21st-century-infantry-programs/index.php

http://newsfromrussia.com/economics/2001/07/03/9253.html

[tomonator]

[QUOTE=maple.leaf;2494895]It's more than a rumor: apparently the project name is Project Wolf / Soldier 2000.

Wouldn't that be past soldier?p-)

[Gene2]

Any Photos?

[BloodyTalon]

here's an apparent video of it
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/zyJvqjjXZiA
looks exactly like our program

[ShakesFIST]

here's an apparent video of it
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/zyJvqjjXZiA
looks exactly like our program

Right down to the M16?

[JVeld]

Right down to the M16?
Is not an M-16, if you look closer it appears to be a new type of rifle.

[Death.]

Is not an M-16, if you look closer it appears to be a new type of rifle.

Okay so it's an M16 with m203 and no barrel protruding from the forestock... :|

[BloodyTalon]

Okay so it's an M16 with m203 and no barrel protruding from the forestock... :|
It looks vaguely like the bastard son of an M16 and a FAMAS

[Digimon]

The future combat complex is developed within the Federal Designated Program “Боец-XXI” (Soldier-XXI). The original program calls for a gradual development of the future combat individual complex of equipment.
Four Phases:

Phase I (1999-2000): Development and serial production of the first generation of a basic complex of individual equipment “Barmitsa”. This phase also includes the development OKR (Experimental Design Program) of upgraded complex “Barmitsa-M”.

Phase II (2000-2005): Development and serial production of the second generation of a basic complex of individual equipment “Barmitsa 2”. This development is based on NIR (Research and Development Program) "Экипировка-21" (“Equipment-21”)

Phase III (2006-2010): Development and serial production of the third generation of a basic complex of individual equipment “Ratnik”. This development is based on NIR (Research and Development Program) “Превосходство” (“Superiority”). According to NPO this generation is 8-10 times superior to first generation complex “Barmitsa”.

Phase IV (2010-2015): Serial production of the basic complex of individual equipment “Ratnik”, and research into modernization of the complex.

Ratnik complex is supposed to be based on new material (nanotechnology) allowing microclimate management and thermoregulation; it will incorporate remote medical monitoring, neurocomputing devices, GLONASS navigational system, and radar, infrared and optical surveillance, network integration and central information processing, UAV uplink, and modular construction.

Sources (all in Russian):
http://www.npo-sm.ru/info/ind7.html (http://www.npo-sm.ru/info/ind7.html)
http://www.npo-sm.ru/info/ind4.html (http://www.npo-sm.ru/info/ind4.html)
http://www.npo-sm.ru/mag/1002.html (http://www.npo-sm.ru/mag/1002.html)
http://www.npo-sm.ru/mag/1003.html (http://www.npo-sm.ru/mag/1003.html)
http://www.npo-sm.ru/mag/pdf/zb105.pdf (http://www.npo-sm.ru/mag/pdf/zb105.pdf) (pages 21-24)
http://www.redstar.ru/2001/04/21_04/4_01.html (http://www.redstar.ru/2001/04/21_04/4_01.html)
http://www.vpk-news.ru/article.asp?pr_sign=archive.2003.17.articles.defence_02
http://www.interpolitex.ru/site.xp/053057124050049052.html

[oldsoak]

alas - not all all of us can speak Russian past "Yes", "No" "please" and "beer".
- any chance of a translation ?

as an aside, I find it amusing that countries spend millions on future soldier technology while being unable to provide the troops with a pair of strong, comfortable boots. I dont know what its like from a Russian perspective, but there are not many western soldiers that havent bought things like boots, warm clothing etc that should really be provided by the forces.

[Sabre]

Boots aside, I'd give my right arm to have a personal radio that is robust, easy to use, has a longish range, is able to send a variety of data types, links in with larger vehicle radios and also performs an emergency beacon function. I'm sure it's possible.

I'd also give my right arm to be ambidextrous...

[Ericsson]

Russian Future Soldier Question is borsch s pizdoi.

[STEPAN1983]

Don't use abusive language here! moderators - "s pizdoi" is "with c*nt" in russian!

[Digimon]

alas - not all all of us can speak Russian past "Yes", "No" "please" and "beer".
- any chance of a translation ?

as an aside, I find it amusing that countries spend millions on future soldier technology while being unable to provide the troops with a pair of strong, comfortable boots. I dont know what its like from a Russian perspective, but there are not many western soldiers that havent bought things like boots, warm clothing etc that should really be provided by the forces.

Too much material to translate, and not enough time. Sorry.

As far as boots and the rest are concerned, the situation in Russia is not peachy (although, no longer as bad as it was in the 90's). However, the current programs aim for the future, not the present. The first two phases described aim to establish a network of cooperation between disparate manufacturers and research institutes, to ensure that future needs will be met when finances allow. Besides, the so called basic complex of individual equipment is a complex in the true sense, apart from gadgets it requires the development of everything necessary for prolonged autonomous functioning in temperatures from -50 to +50 (hence microclimate management and thermoregulation), this also means special mats, rations, sacs, tents, boots, etc...

[asch]

Russian Future Soldier Question is borsch s pizdoi.

silly troll strike again...

:cantbeli:

[Ecchi Oni]

It's a gradual process, Barmitza 1 is already in service with some divisions.

[GazB]

The main thing about the land warrior concept is that the makers of gear for Soldiers are finally working together to make stuff that works together to helps the soldier in various areas. The Russian system will no doubt cut some corners and on paper be inferior... I doubt every Russian soldier will end up with a thermal weapon sight for example, and the video link between their sights and their video monacle will more likely be fibre optic rather than blue tooth wireless, but then fibre optics don't need batteries and can't be jammed or intercepted.

[Ecchi Oni]

LOL at bluetooth.

[Sabre]

Video link between sights and monacle?

I've got 25mm of air between my sight and my eye that can't be jammed, intercepted and doesn't require batteries. I'm all for increasing the squaddie's situational awareness, but I don't see these 'weapon cams' being very viable. The amount of training that's required to hit anything while firing via a TV screen with an unsupported weapon would be pretty steep. Far more useful is a remote probe to see around corners/under doors etc. Or moving a bit further on, a hand held or remote probe plus laser rangefinder that could allow a bloke to 'peek' around a corner and 'tag' a target (distance and elevation in relation to his GPS loc) which could then feedback the tgt info to a number of integral platoon or company weapon systems that fire precision rounds. Section locates enemy sniper/defensive position/armour => info is logged and I/c can add in description/fire support request => info goes to fire control computer in company level support weapon platoon => target is engaged with appropriate weapon system => BDA is performed with 'probe'.

It will still come down to a bloke getting his size 10's and bayonet in the long run though. In which case I want state of the art body armour and efficient load carriage systems, plus a reliable weapon system and the best med support available.

[martinexsquaddie]

one answer
better
off
witha
map
and
nokia:(

[Sabre]

Indeed. When it comes down to it. You can still achieve a lot with a paper map, compass and a radio. :)

[oldsoak]

Be interesting to know what the Russian list of priorities is and if there is something we can learn from them. GazB has pointed out fibreoptics vs bluetooth. My personal view is that a well protected, well rested, well armed and well fed soldier is easier and cheaper to deliver on than some tricked out playstation suit. Give that soldier a reliable map, reliable short range radio and clear information as to where the immediate danger is and hes in as good a spot as anybody.

[Sabre]

True, it's got to the point where the lads in Helmand have been running out of food and water, never mind 'bluetooth monacle HUDs'. All they needed was food, water, rounds and radios; and they didn't get those reliably...:-(

Still did the job though. No amount of batteries are going to improve on that fighting spirit.

[Digimon]

Two pieces of news regarding Russian equipment and uniforms:

1. Spetsnaz is going to be supplied with modular equipment (uniforms) based on nanotechnologies (5 kits to be supplied for field testing)

Source: http://www.expert.ru/news/2007/05/24/nano/ (http://www.expert.ru/news/2007/05/24/nano/) (Russian)

2. Russian uniforms are to be redesigned with input from designers (including this guy: http://www.yudashkin.com/).

Source: http://www.expert.ru/news/2007/05/24/yudashkin/ (http://www.expert.ru/news/2007/05/24/yudashkin/) (Russian)

[~~~~]

Two pieces of news regarding Russian equipment and uniforms:

1. Spetsnaz is going to be supplied with modular equipment (uniforms) based on nanotechnologies (5 kits to be supplied for field testing)

Source: http://www.expert.ru/news/2007/05/24/nano/ (http://www.expert.ru/news/2007/05/24/nano/) (Russian)

2. Russian uniforms are to be redesigned with input from designers (including this guy: http://www.yudashkin.com/).

Source: http://www.expert.ru/news/2007/05/24/yudashkin/ (http://www.expert.ru/news/2007/05/24/yudashkin/) (Russian)


so (if I understood correctly) Russians want to switch from this:

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/2605/189nn0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

to a mix of those two: (?)

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/6794/picture2pe2.png (http://imageshack.us)

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/1789/fwfrontwaistupat0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

good luck!