How Europeans Got to Europe

[Loki77]

45,000-year-old carvings found in Russia

by Nicholas Bakalar
http://discovermagazine.com/2007/apr/how-europeans-got-to-europe/euro-300.jpg (http://discovermagazine.com/2007/apr/how-europeans-got-to-europe/euro-737.jpg)
Carved bone and ivory tools, excavated in Russia,
made by early humans more than 40,000 years ago

It has been widely assumed that modern humans—Homo sapiens—first traveled out of Africa and settled in central and Western Europe before heading to Eastern Europe. That may not be the case. Recent finds from a site (http://donsmaps.com/lioncamp.html) in Russia about 250 miles south of Moscow suggest that the first humans in Europe were Eastern European.The discoveries include bone and carved ivory artifacts. Researchers calculated the date they were made by determining that the ash surrounding the artifacts came from an eruption that occurred 40,000 years ago in southern Italy. “Some of the artifacts found right under the ash were almost certainly made by modern humans,” says John Hoffecker (http://instaar.colorado.edu/people/bios/hoffecker.html), a University of Colorado archaeologist working at the site. Among them is an ivory piece that appears to be the head of a partially complete human figurine. Radiocarbon and other dating methods also helped establish that the artifacts—stone blade fragments, scrapers, shell ornaments, a bone awl, and various digging and carving tools—are an astonishing 42,000 to 45,000 years old.

The artifacts are most likely remnants from H. sapiens, not Neanderthals. “The shells came from the Mediterranean basin, a minimum of 300 miles away,” Hoffecker says. “One of the things you see when modern humans show up is a big leap in the distances over which materials move.” The carved piece of mammoth ivory is further proof of modern humans at work. “Carving ivory is confined to modern humans,” Hoffecker says. “So whether it’s a human figurine or not doesn’t matter. A modern human carved it, and that human is older by a considerable amount than any previously found in Eastern Europe.”
discovermagazine.com (http://discovermagazine.com/2007/apr/how-europeans-got-to-europe)

[Buckeye67]

Ahh, what a crock*. We all know it was Yakub (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakub).









*cool article :) I love that sort of stuff.

[perdurabo]

wrong title, should be how Homo Sapiens got to Europe, since modern Europeans have nothing in common with paleolithinc and neolithic tribes. In some places hiatus beatwin diffrent cultures can reach even few hundred years, espetially diffrent beatwin paleolithic hunters and neolithic farmers is realy big totally difrent mindset and culture.
Moust of us are Indo-Europeans and came through Kavkaz, Crimea, Ukraine... or Turkey, Greece way.

[Sniffit]

Blah, according to the renowed 17th century scholar Olof Rudbeck (t.e.) the legend of Atlantis and the source of human civilisation fits in perfectly on Sweden, our history and our nature.

So be gone with your false history!

:roll:

[Smashed!]

wrong title, should be how Homo Sapiens got to Europe, since modern Europeans have nothing in common with paleolithinc and neolithic tribes. In some places hiatus beatwin diffrent cultures can reach even few hundred years, espetially diffrent beatwin paleolithic hunters and neolithic farmers is realy big totally difrent mindset and culture.
Moust of us are Indo-Europeans and came through Kavkaz, Crimea, Ukraine... or Turkey, Greece way.

Homo Sapiens Sapiens was the basic specimen. However Europe as a "Megali Idea" is very recent so I see no logic trying to pull the blanket towards your side. This was aimed at the Initial Post.

BTW perdurabo, we're almost everything from Indo-Europeans to Indo-Aryans to Uigurs and Semites. Not mentioning the rest.

[Finlander]

Some europeans were in Europe long before the indo europeans came from Iran, kurdistan and india/pakistan... I am thinking of the basques, the celts and also some finnic tribes in the baltic and northwestern russian area...

[fin0084]

Some europeans were in Europe long before the indo europeans came from Iran, kurdistan and india/pakistan... I am thinking of the basques, the celts and also some finnic tribes in the baltic and northwestern russian area...
I think you mix language with ethnicity.

[Finlander]

I think you mix language with ethnicity.

Well racially most finns are a nordid/baltid admixture but before the indo europeans (germanic tribes) came to the scandi peninsula, we finns were more of a baltid siberian tribe... or am I wrong? Anyway the basques and the celts were NOT indo europeans at first, of course thousands of years of racial mixing has changed that...

[Kippari]

That's pure bs. It was written by some finnish nationalistic professor. There's absolutely no proof of that being ever happened. Finns are a mixture of uralic, baltic and germanic peoples that probably came here in different waves during the past 10000 years or so.

[IronFinn]

One known finnish linguistic professor had a lecture some months ago in Raisio (unfortunately don´t remember hes name) where he claimed in his new theory that the main bulk of finns came here right after ice age on the footsteps of the saame people, before slavic and germanic tribes arrived to europe.

[LazyLob]

We all descended from Raquel Welch.

[asch]

argh, i knew that we, Ruskies, was here first! p-)

[perdurabo]

BTW perdurabo, we're almost everything from Indo-Europeans to Indo-Aryans to Uigurs and Semites. Not mentioning the rest.

thats why i written moust of us, Slavs and Germanic tribes are indo-europeans and nations that come from those two groups have* moust of the population in europe (counting with ethnic Russians)
*well with all this mixtures it is hard to say slav/germanic/semite/celt/finn/magyar but moust of the european nations have ancestors from this two groups

But this isn't on topic. From My knowledge there is not a single ethinc grup that could be traced back to paleolithic, eldest "europeans" are from around bronze age (Greeks, Celts) maybe we could push Finns and Baltics to late neolithic forest strefe(duno how it is called in english and your countries) cultures but IMO its realy long shot.

[Jippo]

argh, i knew that we, Ruskies, was here first! p-)

You were pretty much the last ones in. :)

[Lazarou]

Well racially most finns are a nordid/baltid admixture but before the indo europeans (germanic tribes) came to the scandi peninsula, we finns were more of a baltid siberian tribe... or am I wrong? Anyway the basques and the celts were NOT indo europeans at first, of course thousands of years of racial mixing has changed that...
You couldn't be more wrong.

"Indo-European" is a linguistic term, not racial. Languages, genes and cultures are separate entities. The claim that Indo-European languages brought Europoids to Europe is a byproduct of 19th Century racism and eugenics (which eventually led to a certain very well known ideology in the early 20th Century) and has been proven false ages ago; the genetic stock of Europeans has remained virtually the same since the Cro-Magnon made its first appearance.
"Indo-Europeanization" was mostly a cultural, not a physical transformation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_diffusion

[socom6]

Celts ARE Indo European. There were pre Celtic non Indo European peoples like the Ligurians, ancient Iberians, and Picts too. Its my opinion that it was the Celts who made the first penetration of Indo Europeans/Aryans into Western Europe and they came across these people who spoke non Indo European languages.

[Son_Of_Suvorov]

Actually, the whole idea of Celts might be wrong as well:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Atlantic-Celts-Ancient-People-Invention/dp/0714121657

It looks like all those archeologists and anthropologists were lying to us. :(

[capixaba]

One known finnish linguistic professor had a lecture some months ago in Raisio (unfortunately don´t remember hes name) where he claimed in his new theory that the main bulk of finns came here right after ice age on the footsteps of the saame people, before slavic and germanic tribes arrived to europe.

You chaps read any of this man's work?
Björn Olof Lennartson Kurtén (1924 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1924) – 1988 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988)) was a distinguished vertebrate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertebrate) paleontologist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleontologist). He belonged to the Finland-Swedish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland-Swedish) minority in Finland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland). He was also the author of an acclaimed series of books about modern man's encounter with Neanderthals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthals), such as Dance of the Tiger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dance_of_the_Tiger) (1978, 1980). When asked what genre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genre) these works belonged in, Kurtén coined the term paleofiction to describe his oeuvre.

Dance of the Tiger is a short novel, published in English in 1980, by palaeontologist Björn Kurtén (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bj%C3%B6rn_Kurt%C3%A9n) that deals with the interaction between Neanderthals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthals) and Cro-Magnons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cro-Magnons). Set 35,000 years ago in Scandinavia, during a thaw in the great Ice Age (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_Age), the novel follows a Cro-Magnon named Tiger as he tries to defeat Shelk, a tyrant and a hybrid (Neanderthal-Cro-Magnon), the man who killed his father. With his family and much of his tribe dead, Tiger meets, interacts, and allies himself with groups of Neanterthals. He eventually marries Morsinko, a Neanderthal woman. A sequel, Singletusk (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Singletusk&action=edit), published in 1982, continues the story of the family.
Neanderthals are depicted as white-skinned, while Cro-Magnons are dark. Cro-Magnon children and adults have smooth brows and small faces; the characteristic features of childhood act as "innate releasing mechanisms" for feelings of affection.
To the Whites, the Blacks were godlike, tall and eloquent, with a speech as varied and flexible as that of the birds. And there was something else. No White could look at the clear brow of a Black without feeling a mysterious tenderness, such as a child might evoke in the heart of his parents. (Kurtén, p. 33, 5th printing, paperback) Kurtén postulates that this attraction led to intermarriage between the two people, which produced sterile offspring. He emphasizes the possibility of Neanderthal extinction through inter-breeding rather than through violence. He also presents social differences between the two groups, presenting the Cro-Magnon people as more aggressive, practicing slavery and choosing violence to solve social problems. The Neanderthal society, based on matriarchal system, is drawn as peace loving with elaborate social rituals designed to resolve problems.
The novel is known for its plausibility and accuracy. Kurtén's supposition that Neanderthals and ancestors of modern Homo Sapiens occupied same areas in the same time in Europe has been confirmed by fossil evidence.

I read some of his stuff in English a long time ago. Saw the novel reprinted on Amazon not long ago.

[IronFinn]

I´ve actually read some books from this serie. It was quite depressing and the end was one also.

[Thor]

It believe it has been concluded through genetic studies that neanderthals and homo sapiens did not mix.

And btw, the average height of a neanderthal male was 164-168 cm.

"Indo-European" is a linguistic term, not racial. Languages, genes and cultures are separate entities. The claim that Indo-European languages brought Europoids to Europe is a byproduct of 19th Century racism and eugenics (which eventually led to a certain very well known ideology in the early 20th Century) and has been proven false ages ago; the genetic stock of Europeans has remained virtually the same since the Cro-Magnon made its first appearance.
"Indo-Europeanization" was mostly a cultural, not a physical transformation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_diffusion
And that statement is wrong in so many different ways.

You can't always trust Wikipedia.