US-Soldiers guilty of torturing POWs get away with rebuke

[HELEX]

Source is in german only. As it looks now the responsible Soldiers and Officers will see no Punishment, but they perhaps will be trialed by a civil court.

Anyway, thats not exactely what the arabic Wold will understand of Punishment for Warcrimes. :roll:

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,298142,00.html


US-Armee lässt Folterer mit Rüge davonkommen

Die US-Armee hat sechs ihrer Soldaten die schärfste mögliche Rüge erteilt, weil sie irakische Gefangene misshandelt haben sollen. Dadurch können sie aus dem Militärdienst ausgeschlossen werden. Weitere Konsequenzen seitens der Armee drohen ihnen aber vermutlich nicht.

Bagdad - Ein weiterer US-Soldat sei verwarnt worden, teilte ein Armeesprecher mit. Gegen sechs Militärpolizisten wird außerdem gerichtlich ermittelt. In einem internen Bericht der Streitkräfte hieß es, die Häftlinge im Gefängnis Abu Ghureib nahe Bagdad seien "sadistischem, unverhohlenem und mutwillig kriminellem Missbrauch" ausgesetzt gewesen. Dies berichtete das Magazin "The New Yorker".

Die Verweise blieben geheim, und es würden keine Details über Identität und Dienstrang der Offiziere veröffentlicht, hieß es. Bei dem Verweis handelt es sich um die schärfste Bestrafung in schriftlicher Form, die von der US-Armee ausgesprochen werden kann. Damit könnten die Soldaten möglicherweise aus dem Militärdienst ausgeschlossen werden, weitere Konsequenzen seitens der Armee drohen vermutlich aber nicht, hieß es. Allerdings werden nach Informationen der "Washington Post" sechs Angklagen vor einem Strafgericht gegen die Soldaten eingereicht worden.

Auch die britische Armee untersucht Misshandlungsvorwürfe gegen eigene Soldaten. Der US-Oberkommandierende im Irak, General Ricardo Sanchez, hatte bereits im Januar eine Untersuchung in Zusammenhang mit möglichen Misshandlungen irakischer Gefangener eingeleitet.

Der US-Sender CBS hatte in der vergangenen Woche Bilder veröffentlicht, auf denen US-Soldaten irakische Gefangene in Abu Ghureib misshandeln und erniedrigen. Unter anderem waren Gefangene zu sehen, die nackt übereinander lagen. Auf einem anderen Bild ist ein Mann zu sehen, der auf einer Kiste steht. Sein Kopf ist verhüllt, an seinen Händen und Füßen sind Kabel zu sehen. Ihm sei mit einem Stromschlag gedroht worden, wenn er von der Kiste steige, berichtete der Sender.
Das US-Militär im Irak hat unterdessen einen neuen Kommandeur für die am Wochenende gebildete Falludscha-Schutztruppe ins Spiel gebracht. Derzeit wird die Streitkraft von dem ehemaligen General der alten irakischen Armee, Dschasim Mohammed Saleh, befehligt. Saleh rekrutierte am Wochenende rund 1000 Männer, die meist aus der im Vorjahr aufgelösten irakischen Armee stammen. Wie ein US-Militärvertreter am Montag in Bagdad sagte, soll aber ein anderer irakischer Ex-Militär das Kommando über die künftige "Falludscha-Brigade" führen. Seinen Namen gab er mit Mohammed Latif an.
Saleh werde weiterhin das erste Bataillon der "Falludscha-Brigade" führen, sagte der US-Militärvertreter. Saleh werde dem Brigade-Kommandeur Latif unterstellt sein.

Die irakische Schutztruppe soll nun Ordnungsaufgaben übernehmen, die Aufständischen und gegebenenfalls ausländische Kämpfer entwaffnen und die Rückkehr von Polizei und Justiz ermöglichen. Rund 2000 US-Marineinfanteristen hatten am Wochenende damit begonnen, ihren Belagerungsring rund um Falludscha zu räumen.

Eine Rolle Latifs war bereits am Wochenende vom Kommandeur der für Falludscha zuständigen 1. Marineinfanteriedivision, General James Conway, angedeutet worden. Der ehemalige Oberst des irakischen Militärgeheimdienstes sei aus dem Land vertrieben worden und habe vorübergehend in Europa gelebt, sagte Conway am Samstag.
24 besorgte bulgarische Soldaten sind am Montag früher als geplant aus dem Irak abgezogen worden. Sie hatten ihre Rückverlegung selbst beantragt, weil das Risiko ihres Einsatzes in der Stadt Kerbela "größer als erwartet ist". Das meldete der Staatsrundfunk in Sofia. Bis Ende April hatten demnach 44 der insgesamt 484 im Irak stationierten Bulgaren Anträge auf Rückverlegung gestellt.

Bisher wurden sechs bulgarische Soldaten im Irak getötet. Die Staatsführung und das Parlament in Sofia haben dennoch das Verbleiben des Militärkontingents im Irak bekräftigt.

In Nadschaf kam es zu schweren Gefechten zwischen Aufständischen und US-Truppen. Aufständische beschossen in der Nacht den ehemaligen spanischen Militärstützpunkt, der mittlerweile von US-Truppen genutzt wird. Rund 20 Granaten schlugen im Gebäude und in der Nähe ein, Berichte über mögliche Opfer gab es zunächst nicht. Im Laufe des Tages flammten wieder Gefechte auf, über der Gegend kreisten Hubschrauber.

[Beowulf]

I can only hope that the report is inaccurate or incomplete.

If they did mistreat POW's, PUC's or whatever the term du jour is they should get hammerred by the UCMJ.

[Uncle Sam]

washingtonpost.com (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61989-2004May3.html)


BAGHDAD, May 3 -- The top U.S. commander in Iraq, Lt. Gen. Ricardo S. Sanchez, has recommended issuing the highest form of administrative rebuke against six officers or sergeants who helped supervise the troubled Abu Ghraib detention facility west of Baghdad, which is the focus of an investigation of alleged abuse of Iraqi prisoners, a U.S. official disclosed Monday.

The six unnamed supervisors will each receive a general-officer memorandum of reprimand, a document that can effectively end an officer's career by making future promotion impossible. A seventh supervisor will receive a letter of admonishment, a lesser form of penalty.

The official would not identify the units or ranks of the seven supervisors who will be punished.

They are separate from the six enlisted soldiers who were criminally charged in March in the physical and ****** abuse of about 20 prisoners at Abu Ghraib in October and November last year. Four other enlisted soldiers are still under criminal investigation.

[ibstolidude]

Death is in the details HELEX - too bad you lack the attention.

the people who have committed these acts are yet to recieve their full punishments.

[HELEX]

Death is in the details HELEX - too bad you lack the attention.

the people who have committed these acts are yet to recieve their full punishments.

I doubt that, after 2 weeks this will be forgotten by the most americans and the cover up machine will do the rest. They will get away.

[Maj C]

Death is in the details HELEX - too bad you lack the attention.

the people who have committed these acts are yet to recieve their full punishments.

I doubt that, after 2 weeks this will be forgotten by the most americans and the cover up machine will do the rest. They will get away.


What? Like Jochen Peiper or Dr Mengele?

[Fioraon]

Death is in the details HELEX - too bad you lack the attention.

the people who have committed these acts are yet to recieve their full punishments.

I doubt that, after 2 weeks this will be forgotten by the most americans and the cover up machine will do the rest. They will get away.

Thanks for you opinion but Im sure time will prove you wrong for the sake of the Military; it would be in their best interest to punish these guys.

[mi35d]

I'm relatively new to the forum but I've noticed an interesting trend. Helex, your Icon suits you. Your only posts are when you can wallow in the mud and toss your anti-US pig flop our way. Go back to your pen.

[Fioraon]

I'm relatively new to the forum but I've noticed an interesting trend. Helex, your Icon suits you. Your only posts are when you can wallow in the mud and toss your anti-US pig flop our way. Go back to your pen.

Dont let him worry you, if it wasn't for posters like him this forum would have no balance.

[Uncle Sam]

I doubt that, after 2 weeks this will be forgotten by the most americans and the cover up machine will do the rest.

The U.S. has a "Cover up" machine...Holy sh*t....And only HELEX knows about it

***Shhhhhh, don't tell anyone***

[ibstolidude]

As it looks now the responsible Soldiers and Officers will see no Punishment, but they perhaps will be trialed by a civil court.
- you are a liar - despite being proved false you STILL make these comments.

The reality it is "as it looks now the 6 responsible for that acts will recieve a criminal hearing and atleast 4 more are under investigation for criminal charges.

[HELEX]

As it looks now the responsible Soldiers and Officers will see no Punishment, but they perhaps will be trialed by a civil court.
- you are a liar - despite being proved false you STILL make these comments.

The reality it is "as it looks now the 6 responsible for that acts will recieve a criminal hearing and atleast 4 more are under investigation for criminal charges.

No, according to the Text all my statements are 100% correct. And I still doubt they will see any punishment when some Time has gone.....

[hedgehog]

Remember during the war when those Americans in the supply convoi got captured? RIght after Bush and Rumsfeld came out screaming to the press about human rights and the Geneva convention. ie no torture, demeaning etc... funny how quickly things are forgotten.

Also found out today that the private security firms are used for such things as they are in a law "loophole". The US DOD gives them no guiodelines by which to operate, and since most of them are not US citizens, are not subject to US laws. The ones that are Americans can't be labelled a merc, since they are not fighting for another country. They are still in the service of the US. And since there is official Iraqi government they have nothing to fear there.

Also, their casualty figures are not listed anywhere! Aparently close to 100 have bought it in combat related incidents.

Makes you wonder how big an army Bill gates could muster...

[mustamato]

To Hague with them and let a non-biased jury be their judge.

[Fotch]

To Hague with them and let a non-biased jury be their judge.

No US soldier will ever stand trial in the Hague. They will do a bit of time and then receive a dishonorable discharge.

[Uncle Sam]

Remember during the war when those Americans in the supply convoi got captured? RIght after Bush and Rumsfeld came out screaming to the press about human rights and the Geneva convention. ie no torture, demeaning etc... funny how quickly things are forgotten.

Considering this was a small group of "misguided" Reservists. And, The torture methods used on Americans and others, even on their own people, is/was far more extreme. Like torture (Real torture) and Death (Like the Italian hostage that was shot and video taped, and others)

Also found out today that the private security firms are used for such things as they are in a law "loophole". The US DOD gives them no guiodelines by which to operate, and since most of them are not US citizens, are not subject to US laws. The ones that are Americans can't be labelled a merc, since they are not fighting for another country. They are still in the service of the US. And since there is official Iraqi government they have nothing to fear there.

And your point is...? Used for such things, as what...?

Also, their casualty figures are not listed anywhere! Aparently close to 100 have bought it in combat related incidents.

And your point is...?

Makes you wonder how big an army Bill gates could muster...

You make absolutely no sense at all...!

-USP-

[Uncle Sam]

edit-double post

[LeMat]

Oh. Is it that freedom which was given to Iraqi people? You are free now - you can be raped and tortured by every american soldier.

[Seoulstriker]

LeMat:

spierdalaj ty chuju.

[Uncle Sam]

Oh. Is it that freedom which was given to Iraqi people? You are free now - you can be raped and tortured by every american soldier.

"Every American soldier"...."Raped and Tortured"....

Think before you type !

[NcDeuce]

As it looks now the responsible Soldiers and Officers will see no Punishment, but they perhaps will be trialed by a civil court.
- you are a liar - despite being proved false you STILL make these comments.

The reality it is "as it looks now the 6 responsible for that acts will recieve a criminal hearing and atleast 4 more are under investigation for criminal charges.

No, according to the Text all my statements are 100% correct. And I still doubt they will see any punishment when some Time has gone.....

HELEX has a problem deciding which sources are reliable. He believes his 'text' is true and will stick to it because he does not know better. Ban the f*cking troll.

[Jack Mehoff]

Oh. Is it that freedom which was given to Iraqi people? You are free now - you can be raped and tortured by every american soldier.

http://forumspam.articblue.nl/user_related/****off/images/0065.jpg

[HELEX]

Oh. Is it that freedom which was given to Iraqi people? You are free now - you can be raped and tortured by every american soldier.

http://forumspam.articblue.nl/user_related/f***/images/0065.jpg

US-soldiers repeated raped Iraqi POWs with Broomsticks and other objects, fact.

That is rape.

[Jack Mehoff]

eve·ry ( P ) ****unciation Key (vr)
adj.

Constituting each and all members of a group without exception.
Being all possible: had every chance of winning, but lost.
Being each of a specified succession of objects or intervals: every third seat; every two hours.
Being the highest degree or expression of: showed us every attention; had every hope of succeeding.


HELEX ( P ) ****unciation Key (he, lex-)
adj. stu·pid·er, stu·pid·est
Slow to learn or understand; obtuse.
Tending to make poor decisions or careless mistakes.
Marked by a lack of intelligence or care; foolish or careless: a stupid mistake.
Dazed, stunned, or stupefied.
Pointless; worthless: a stupid job.

[radon]

Death is in the details HELEX - too bad you lack the attention.

the people who have committed these acts are yet to recieve their full punishments.

Do you mean only this thread? Helex posted a article and it says just that what he says it does. Helex did not write that thing. How is someone a liar if they post a possibly false article.

Maj C , what those did can not really be compared to dr. Mengele.



Oh. Is it that freedom which was given to Iraqi people? You are free now - you can be raped and tortured by every american soldier.

"Every American soldier"...."Raped and Tortured"....

Think before you type !

I understand he does not say every American soldier will not rape and torture , but has maybe the possibility to get away with it. I dont know what they would do in that case lol.

[Abolith]

HELEX ( P ) ****unciation Key (he, lex-)
adj. stu·pid·er, stu·pid·est
Slow to learn or understand; obtuse.
Tending to make poor decisions or careless mistakes.
Marked by a lack of intelligence or care; foolish or careless: a stupid mistake.
Dazed, stunned, or stupefied.
Pointless; worthless: a stupid job.
rofl rofl rofl That made me spit out my coffee

[Uncle Sam]

US-soldiers repeated raped Iraqi POWs with Broomsticks and other objects, fact.

That is rape.

Show me a link.

[Pille1234]

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040510fa_fact

What makes me nervous are the mercenaries (PMC) who are used to gain intelligence from prisoners. Sounds a bit like outsourcing of torture. :|

[HELEX]

US-soldiers repeated raped Iraqi POWs with Broomsticks and other objects, fact.

That is rape.

Show me a link.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/02/international/middleeast/02ABUS.html

http://breaking.examiner.ie/2004/05/01/story145582.html

http://www.iraq.net/displayarticle3348.html

....more?

[He219]

Yeah, but they people they are handling are all bad (http://funwavs.com/wavfile.php?quote=2954&sound=123) ....

;)

http://a1112.g.akamai.net/7/1112/492/03312000/news.lycos.com/news/ot_getImage.asp?op=img&id=597092

A US soldier from the 2nd ACR (Armed Cavalry Regiment) shoots a Mark-19 grenade launcher at insurgents in Najaf, Iraq, Monday May 3, 2004. The US soldiers, based in 2 camps, Golf and Baker, in the city of Najaf, fired back after insurgents attacked US camps with mortars, rocket propelled grenades and other small arms. (AP Photo/Saurabh Das)

http://a1112.g.akamai.net/7/1112/492/03312000/news.lycos.com/news/ot_getImage.asp?op=img&id=597103

An injured insurgent is taken for treatment at a US camp in Najaf, Iraq, Monday May 3, 2004. The US soldiers, based in 2 camps, Golf and Baker, in the city of Najaf, fired back after insurgents attacked US camps with mortars, rocket propelled grenades and other small arms. (AP Photo/Saurabh Das)

^ This is a Bad Guy. Don't be fooled. He is not helping ordinary Iraqis by attacking coalition and reconstruction forces. Of course prisoners' right should be respected, considering they didn't kill him in the first place ...

p-)

[Uncle Sam]

US-soldiers repeated raped Iraqi POWs with Broomsticks and other objects, fact.

That is rape.

Show me a link.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/02/international/middleeast/02ABUS.html

http://breaking.examiner.ie/2004/05/01/story145582.html

http://www.iraq.net/displayarticle3348.html

....more?

One detainee was allegedly sodomized with a chem light or broomstick.

Also, you say "U.S. Soldiers..." It was a few stupid, authourity abusing, morons from the Reserves. They are/will be punished.

Nowhere does it say:


US-soldiers repeatedly raped Iraqi POWs with Broomsticks and other objects, fact.

That is rape.

BTW, Chem light juice is not harmful.

[weedman]

BTW, Chem light juice is not harmful.Hell yeah, I waited for such a statement all the time. :lol:

Torture is torture...

[Herrmannek]

BTW, Chem light juice is not harmful.

rofl , this isn't valid argument

[HELEX]

US-soldiers repeated raped Iraqi POWs with Broomsticks and other objects, fact.

That is rape.

Show me a link.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/02/international/middleeast/02ABUS.html

http://breaking.examiner.ie/2004/05/01/story145582.html

http://www.iraq.net/displayarticle3348.html

....more?

One detainee was allegedly sodomized with a chem light or broomstick.

Also, you say "U.S. Soldiers..." It was a few stupid, authourity abusing, morons from the Reserves. They are/will be punished.

Nowhere does it say:


US-soldiers repeatedly raped Iraqi POWs with Broomsticks and other objects, fact.

That is rape.

BTW, Chem light juice is not harmful.

First of all, chem light fuel is heavily cancerigenic.

To blame Reserves or PMCs is easy, and Reserves

are U.S. Soldiers!

One case? No, one known case and just the Tip of an Iceberg!

And I doubt they will be punished, they had order to Torture. According to european News-Networks torture is common practice among the troops.

[Uncle Sam]

BTW, Chem light juice is not harmful.Hell yeah, I waited for such a statement all the time. :lol:

Torture is torture...

Man, I'm not doubting the fact that these idiot Reservists tortured these Iraqis. The proof is in the puddin'. But the investigation is still ongoing...

About the chem light stuff...Just stating a fact.

Now, continue with your babbling....

[weedman]

Single case? (http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engmde140172004)

[Jack Mehoff]

First of all, chem light fuel is heavily cancerigenic.

Off topic,

Do you want to bet on that? I drank chem light juice before because I was drunk enough. Chem light juice is very harmless.

[Herrmannek]

First of all, chem light fuel is heavily cancerigenic.

Off topic,

Do you want to bet on that? I drank chem light juice before because I was drunk enough. Chem light juice is very harmless.

Did you glow after that?

[Uncle Sam]

Single case? (http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engmde140172004)

Do you ****-n read...I said "But the investigation is still ongoing..."

Go smoke some more weed-man...

[Jack Mehoff]

All over my BDU

[afrographX]

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040510fa_fact

What makes me nervous are the mercenaries (PMC) who are used to gain intelligence from prisoners. Sounds a bit like outsourcing of torture. :|

That makes me nervous aswell. PMCs make out the second largest part (25.000) of all foreign troops in iraq. It can be seen in the tradition of neoliberalization and the outsorucing of all the state tasks. Now even military, originally a monopol of the state is out sourced to pmcs. Some of their actions aren't very differnt of simple mercenarys.

They behave even more arrogant and ignorant than most regular soldiers (which may explain the extreme violence in falluja against pmc contractors)

Companies like http://www.caci.com/ or Titan send interrogation specialists into iraq and are also mentioned in an investigation report of the us-military. This solution is very practical for the usa because these pmcs can do the dirty work while nobody can really be taken reasponsible for their actions.

[weedman]

Do you f***-n read...


[One detainee was allegedly sodomized with a chem light or broomstick.

[HELEX]

Chem light fuel is not harmless, it is heavily cancerigenic. :roll:

So show me a source stating it doesnt harm.....

[Uncle Sam]

US-soldiers repeated raped Iraqi POWs with Broomsticks and other objects, fact.

That is rape.

Show me a link.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/02/international/middleeast/02ABUS.html

http://breaking.examiner.ie/2004/05/01/story145582.html

http://www.iraq.net/displayarticle3348.html

....more?

One detainee was allegedly sodomized with a chem light or broomstick.

Also, you say "U.S. Soldiers..." It was a few stupid, authourity abusing, morons from the Reserves. They are/will be punished.

Nowhere does it say:


US-soldiers repeatedly raped Iraqi POWs with Broomsticks and other objects, fact.

That is rape.

BTW, Chem light juice is not harmful.

First of all, chem light fuel is heavily cancerigenic.

Nope

To blame Reserves or PMCs is easy, and Reserves

are U.S. Soldiers!

Yes, they are U.S. Soldiers...But the way you put it is , all U.S. Soldiers...

One case? No, one known case and just the Tip of an Iceberg!

That's why there is an investigation. I'm not gonna argue the fact that these particular U.S. soldiers were wrong in what happened. Investigation continues...

And I doubt they will be punished, they had order to Torture. According to european News-Networks torture is common practice among the troops.

They will be punished

"According to european News-Networks torture is common practice among the troops"

Oh, ok, that explains everything... :cantbeli:

[Uncle Sam]

Chem light fuel is not harmless, it is heavily cancerigenic. :roll:

So show me a source stating it doesnt harm.....

Show us one that states it's a cancer-a-whatever...

[Jack Mehoff]

Chem light fuel is not harmless, it is heavily cancerigenic. :roll:

So show me a source stating it doesnt harm.....

Because I drank it and i'm still healthy enough to kick your ass.

Will you ask Hood to IP ban you off this board if I show you? Hell, I'll drink the chem juice just to get you off this forum.

[Uncle Sam]

Chem light fuel is not harmless, it is heavily cancerigenic. :roll:

So show me a source stating it doesnt harm.....

According to the Merk Index, the chemicals that make up a chemlight ( luciferaise and luciferin ) are non-toxic.

Merk Index (http://library.dialog.com/bluesheets/html/bl0304.html)

[XASA]

The difference between American "torture" and that of other nations is that the U.S. doesn't sanction abusing prisoners as national policy as opposed to what other nations did to their prisoners in the past; i.e., Germany and Japan in WWII, North Korea and China in the Korean War, the French in Algeria and the Baathist Party in Saddam's Iraq. The U.S., in fact, prosecutes those who commit these vile acts.

As to the title of this thread and some of the posts that those who are quilty of this outrage will not be punished, here is how the American government is reacting:

W to Rummy: Punish G.I.s for 'shameful, appalling acts'

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS


SOUTH BEND, Ind. — President Bush urged Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld to make sure that U.S. soldiers are punished for “shameful and appalling acts” committed against some Iraqi prisoners.
Dealing with international fallout over images of prisoners being mistreated by U.S. forces, Bush called the Pentagon chief before a campaign trip Monday to check on the status of an investigation.

“The president wanted to make sure appropriate action is being taken against those responsible for these shameful and appalling acts,” said White House spokesman Scott McClellan.

The spokesman did not say what action would be appropriate but said Bush wants those responsible punished.

“The shameful actions of a few do not represent the 99 percent of our men and women in uniform who are performing superbly,” McClellan said.

He contrasted the U.S. abuses, which are being investigated and could lead to criminal charges, with wrongdoing under the former Iraqi leader.

“Saddam Hussein encouraged and tolerated this kind of behavior — the U.S. does not,” McClellan said.

Secretary of State Colin Powell called the incidents “despicable acts” and said that “my colleagues at the Pentagon have a number of investigations under way.” “It doesn’t reflect on all of our troops,” he said.

"Most of our troops are doing a great job upholding the highest standards of the service, doing everything they can to help the Iraqi people. We are there to help, not to hurt.” “The acts of a few must not overwhelm” the goodness of the vast majority of servicemen and women, Powell said.

Originally published on May 3, 2004

[budanski]

So, were these photos taken in line with intelligence gathering tactics being used to humiliate and collect intel? Col. West's tactic in getting info seemed to work and we all know what happened to him... I find it kinda odd that half the culprits being accused as torturers are WOMEN. I know they'd be the first in my mind to physically extract info. [/sarcasm]

[Trident-za]

Chem light fuel is not harmless, it is heavily cancerigenic. :roll:

So show me a source stating it doesnt harm.....

Because I drank it and i'm still healthy enough to kick your ass.

Will you ask Hood to IP ban you off this board if I show you? Hell, I'll drink the chem juice just to get you off this forum.

I've never heard of a carconogenic (spelling??) substance which instantly causes cancer, Jack. Cigarettes are carconogenic... my dad smoked 40 a day for 30 years before getting cancer.

Back on topic..... I have no idea how many Iraqis have been abused/tortured/whatever. What I do know is that if one US soldier was treated in this way, and the photos published on Al Jazeera, you would all be screaming your lungs out about islamic animals etc etc...

As Tane says, just some thoughts...

[ibstolidude]

Death is in the details HELEX - too bad you lack the attention.

the people who have committed these acts are yet to recieve their full punishments.

Do you mean only this thread? Helex posted a article and it says just that what he says it does. Helex did not write that thing. How is someone a liar if they post a possibly false article.
- I mean repeatedly. And the articel does NOT state in the manner he wishes to pretend. In this thread and in several others he has purposefully used dishonesty in an attempt to make his points - using partial truths and half truths to down right lying. He is a liar or if you prefer - dishonest. He lacks any and all credability as far as I am concerned.
How about a verbatim translation of the second paragraph - compared to his original post?

[He219]

Torture, abuse or the mistreatement of prisoners must be handled on a case-by-case basis. To claim that it is 'common practice' in the United States Armed Forces certainly neglects the fact that such behavior is Forbidden under the Uniform Code of Military Conduct and punishable by Court-Martial.

Also, don't pretend that the prisoners in Abu Ghraib are some innocent Kindergarten schoolkids. They are, with some exceptions, hardened killers and murderers who do not abide by the Geneva Convention. This certainly does not justify any mistreatement of prisoners, but should give insight as to the type people that are incarcerated there.

You guys are just digging to find any dirt to discredit the United States of America.
:roll:

Keep Trolling if it makes you feel superior ...

[HELEX]

Chem light fuel is not harmless, it is heavily cancerigenic. :roll:

So show me a source stating it doesnt harm.....

According to the Merk Index, the chemicals that make up a chemlight ( luciferaise and luciferin ) are non-toxic.

Merk Index (http://library.dialog.com/bluesheets/html/bl0304.html)

Post a direct link, thats just the Indexpage. And non-toxic doesnt mean harmless. Of course no substance instantly starts cancer in 100% of all cases, but the risk is much higher.

[5jumpchump]

Pic of what happens to American POW's

http://www.drudgereport.com/AJ.jpg

[Pille1234]

Torture, abuse or the mistreatement of prisoners must be handled on a case-by-case basis. To claim that it is 'common practice' in the United States Armed Forces certainly neglects the fact that such behavior is Forbidden under the Uniform Code of Military Conduct and punishable by Court-Martial.

Also, don't pretend that the prisoners in Abu Ghraib are some innocent Kindergarten schoolkids. They are, with some exceptions, hardened killers and murderers who do not abide by the Geneva Convention. This certainly does not justify any mistreatement of prisoners, but should give insight as to the type people that are incarcerated there.

You guys are just digging to find any dirt to discredit the United States of America.
:roll:

Keep Trolling if it makes you feel superior ...

Well He219, you're usually the voice of reason here in the forum, but this time I'm disappointed by your post.

First of all, there's only a small number of 'high value targets' i.e. real terrorists. Most are just common criminals arrested from the street for various reasons, including teenager and woman. (As quoted in the NewYorker article)
Second thing is, it doesn't matter, if the prisoner is Hitler or Jesus himself, they all have the same rights. For good reason, because good and evil is usually defined by the winner of a war. No matter if they are terrorists fighting the liberators or resistance heroes fighting the occupier.
Third, this case is not about the Geneva Convention. There are several laws against torture, mistreatment and humiliation, international Laws and US ones.

Finally, it doesn't matter if Northkorea or Saddam did or does worse things. I expect more from the USA than from a fu<ked up 3rd world country. Insisting that the victims are still alive and have no permanent physical disability simply isn't enough.

[He219]

Pille1234, I certainly am not justifying or rationalizing any mistreatment of prisoners.

We are all supposed to reflect a model of behavior equal to that we ourselves wish to be subjected to.

What annoys me is the effort by some to find fault in Americans. We are not perfect. We do, however, strive for a higher conduct of behavior in our conviction that all men/women should be treated as we wish to be treated ourselves.

Consensus is that Americans strongly disapprove of the behavior exhibited by the abusers of prisoners at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere.

That is all.
;)

[5jumpchump]

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/11/06/1068013331144.html?from=storyrhs


http://www.thisislondon.com/til/jsp/modules/Article/print.jsp?itemId=10562467

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040503/D82B85LG0.html

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/GMA/US/iraq_GMA030220POW_lawsuit.html

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/3/24/93340.shtml

[ExtraT]

I was just watching CNN, and this motherf*ck Lou Dobbs was apologizing to the Iraqis.

Who the f*ck does he think he is anyways? :(

[incubz5]

Lou Dobbs is just like every other liberal shill for the DNC - Americans bad (and let me extrapolate that to its larger meaning: BUSH BAD), enemy good (those who oppose bush or anything that makes him look bad, is good).

The photos have already been discredited. Bits of propaganda that America-hating Euros and liberals embrace.

It would almost be comical were it not so nauseating an example of mass ignorance.

[vikingblade]

LONDON, England (CNN) -- Doubts are growing over the authenticity of photographs that allegedly show British troops mistreating an Iraqi prisoner.

Some British military officials have cast doubt on the pictures -- first published in the Daily Mirror newspaper -- saying the clothing and equipment pictured is not currently troop issue.

But military and photographic experts have pointed out a series of inaccuracies and inconsistencies, suggesting the pictures were fakes.

The experts say the SA80 rifle shown in the images was not issued to British soldiers currently serving in Iraq.

They also say the alleged captive's shirt depicts the pre-1988 Iraqi flag and is too clean to be that old.

And the location of the photos suggest the inside of a Bedford truck -- but experts say those vehicles are not being used by British forces in southern Iraq.

The Mirror's pictures, which it said came from two soldiers in the Queen's Lancashire Regiment, showed soldiers apparently kicking, stamping and urinating on a hooded Iraqi.

It said they were taken during an eight-hour beating in Basra, southern Iraq, where Britain has around 7,500 troops.

The Daily Mirror is standing by the story and on Monday published more detailed reports of alleged abuse and hinted it may publish more images.

"Despite the whispering campaign and dodgy briefings that went on yesterday, the Daily Mirror has no doubt that the allegations made by the two soldiers who came to us were true," the newspaper said in an editorial on Monday.

But the newspaper seemingly acknowledged the apparent inconsistencies could not easily be explained.

"The two squaddies (British soldiers) admit they cannot answer questions regarding minor details in the photos which were taken months ago," said the newspaper.

A Mirror spokesman declined to say whether the newspaper paid the two men for the pictures.

A former commander of the Queen's Lancashire Regiment dismissed the photographs as having "too many inconsistencies."

Colonel David Black told the BBC on Monday the vehicle shown in the pictures was never sent to the war zone in Iraq and the uniforms were not the same as those worn by the regiment.

But John Nichol, a former British soldier captured during the 1991 Gulf War, believes authenticity isn't the issue.

"If we find out in a week's time or four week's that they're not authentic -- it doesn't matter -- the whole Arab world have seen them and it is turning Arab opinion against the forces in Iraq and that can only do immense damage to those troops trying to do the best they can," Nichol told CNN. (Nichol interview)

British officials say an investigation into the matter is ongoing.

WELL, WELL, WELL.... smells fishy to me.

[incubz5]

Imagine this even during WWII. The Mirror, anti-war, anti-American, and utterly driven by liberal/socialist zeal begins to put fake photos in its pages of Allies' fictitious atrocities against Nazis.

They would be hung, drawn, and quatered.

Parliament needs to bring up sedition charges or even the hint of them. It will not however. Britain is now decadent, collapsing in on itself.

[LeMat]

To Uncle Sam's Pissed ! Jack Mehoff and others.

I`ve written

you CAN BE raped and tortured by every american soldier.

Not you ARE GOING TO BE.
It is possibility that you CAN (only CAN) be raped.
Understood?[/b]

[J-10]

It is said that CIA instigated MP's to illtreat Iraqi prisoners.

http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=8&id=297193

Monday, May 3, 2004 at 03:00 JST
WASHINGTON — A U.S. military report shows the torture of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. soldiers was systematic and often carried out at the request of intelligence groups including the Central Intelligence Agency, the New Yorker magazine reported on its web site Sunday.

[Jack Mehoff]

To Uncle Sam's Pissed ! Jack Mehoff and others.

I`ve written

you CAN BE raped and tortured by every american soldier.

Not you ARE GOING TO BE.
It is possibility that you CAN (only CAN) be raped.
Understood?[/b]
Every muslim can detonates himself up and kill you.
Every Polish girl can be a cheap hooker.
Every German can be a nazi.
Every french woman can be hairy.
Every french man can be a coward.
Every Brit can have bad teeth.
......
......

[henksmoeder]

I was just watching CNN, and this motherf*ck Lou Dobbs was apologizing to the Iraqis.

Who the f*ck does he think he is anyways? :(

Uuuhm, what's wrong with that? The Iraqi people have the right to get an apology for the behaviour of those troops. They should have had an apology by Sadam as well. Nothing wrong with an apology for illtreatment.