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Ordie
05-14-2007, 02:48 PM
Interesting approach to immigration policy.



How Spain Thrives on Immigration

Business Week/ Der Speigel
By Carol Matlack
The open-border policy under Prime Minister José Luis Zapatero is driving a Spanish economic and social revival.
Imagine what would happen if a prosperous Western nation threw open its borders, allowing immigrants to flood in virtually unchecked. Soaring unemployment, overstretched social services, rising crime, even rioting in the streets? Not in Spain.
Over the past decade, the traditionally homogeneous country has become a sort of open-door laboratory on immigration. Spain has absorbed more than 3 million foreigners from places as diverse as Romania, Morocco, and South America. More than 11 percent of the country's 44 million residents are now foreign-born, one of the highest proportions in Europe. With hundreds of thousands more arriving each year, Spain could soon match the US rate of 12.9 percent.


And it doesn't seem to have hurt much. Spain is Europe's best-performing major economy, with growth averaging 3.1 percent over the past five years. Since 2002, the country has created half the new jobs in the euro zone. Unemployment has plummeted from more than 20 percent in the 1990s to 8.6 percent, within shooting distance of the 7.2 percent euro zone average. The government attributes more than half this stellar performance to immigration. "We are very thankful for all these people who have come here to work with us," says Javier Vallés, economic policy chief for Prime Minister José Luis Zapatero.
Many Benefits
If anything, the worry is that Spain is a bubble waiting to burst. Construction, which accounts for 18 percent of the economy and is a major employer of immigrants, is slowing noticeably after a decade-long boom. A steep decline could trigger social conflict, which so far has been minimal -- perhaps because about three-fourths of immigrants come from Latin American and European countries with languages and cultures similar to Spain's.
For now, Spain is keeping the welcome mat out. Besides providing muscle for construction, immigrants care for children and the elderly, allowing more Spanish women to take jobs outside the home. They do backbreaking agricultural labor and take minimum-wage positions in restaurants and hotels. "Spanish workers don't want these jobs," says Marta Martín, who has recruited immigrant employees for the Madrid-based hotel chain NH Hoteles. And the government says immigrants' tax and social security contributions exceed by more than 20 percent the cost of the public services they use.
Immigrants are weaving vitality into Spanish society, too. Stroll through Tetuán, a vibrant multiethnic neighborhood in north-central Madrid, and you'll find an Ecuadoran bakery, a Moroccan furniture shop, and an everything-for-€1 store called Los Chinos because its owners are Chinese. On Calle Bravo Murillo, Tetuán's main drag, mobile-phone stores and bank branches beckon with discounts on international calls and wire transfers.
A Model for Globalization
"They understand now that we are a good market for them," Ecuadoran immigrant Mercedes Factos says over lunch at San Francisco de Quito, a Tetuán café that serves Ecuadoran specialties such as fried yucca and toasted corn. Like many immigrant women, Factos arrived on her own and found a job as a domestic worker, sharing a room with a cousin until she saved enough to get her own apartment and send for her child.
Could Spain be a model for invigorating aging, slow-growth societies in Western Europe and elsewhere? Many economists say yes. "If you make your labor market more open and flexible, in a world where populations are more mobile and economies are globalizing, you attract people who want to work," says Eric Chaney, chief economist for Europe at Morgan Stanley in London.
Yet in much of the developed world, immigration is seen as a threat. Anti-immigrant politicians have gained strength even in tolerant nations such as Denmark and the Netherlands. Nicolas Sarkozy, elected President of France on May 6, ran on a platform calling for stricter border controls. A recent poll by Harris Interactive shows that only 19 percent of British and French think immigration is helping their countries, vs. 42 percent of Spaniards.
New Demand for Workers
Certainly, Spain has some anxieties about immigration. A deadly 2004 train bombing in Madrid, blamed on a Moroccan-led terrorist group, underscored the risk of Islamic extremism, although there have been no major attacks since then. More recently, Spaniards have been alarmed by news reports showing African boat people trying to reach Spain's Canary Islands. And there have been scattered incidents of anti-immigrant violence.
Compared to its neighbors, though, Spain has had special reasons to welcome outsiders. As recently as the mid-1990s it was an economic backwater with an aging population and per-capita income only 80 percent of the EU average, vs. 96 percent now. But lower interest rates and a healthy dose of aid from Brussels sparked a demand for labor.
To fill jobs, Spain looked abroad. Immigration rose from 57,000 in 1998 to more than 600,000 for each of the past two years. The biggest influx, about 800,000 since the mid-1990s, came from Ecuador, followed by Morocco and Romania. Spain, unlike France and Germany, places no restrictions on immigration from the EU's new members in the old Soviet Bloc.
Many from other countries arrived under the radar: An estimated 25 percent to 35 percent of the current immigrant population is undocumented. But Spain has been generous with amnesty, granting legal status since 2000 to more than 1 million who could prove that they were employed.
Getting Ahead
Many found work in the booming construction sector. Across the suburbs of Madrid, armies of hard-hatted workers speaking a babel of languages are building row upon row of apartment high-rises on freshly bulldozed hillsides. "If you work well, you always have work," says Constantin Nitu, a Romanian who arrived in Spain in 1999 to work as a day laborer and now runs his own small construction business which employs other Romanian immigrants.


Now budding entrepreneurs are branching out into other sectors. Take Luminita Tecu, who runs a thriving bakery in the Madrid suburb of Coslada where she sells poppy seed pastries and other specialties of her native Romania. Trained as a nurse, she arrived in Spain in 1997 with little more than a suitcase, and took a job caring for an elderly Spanish woman while her husband did construction work.
By 2001, they had saved and borrowed enough from friends to open the bakery. When they wanted to expand the business two years ago, they easily got a $55,000 loan from a local bank. "At first my idea was to stay here for a year, earn money, and go back, but now I know I won't leave," she says. "I work hard, but my life is like a fairy tale."
Matlack is BusinessWeek's Paris bureau chief

Adam Weishaupt
05-14-2007, 04:10 PM
Sorry, but Spain is Kaputt.
Minimum salary in Spain:$680 - 500euros
Minimum salary in France:$1490 - 1100euros
The salary of typical spanish is:$1.090 - 800euros
The rent for a flat(normal) in Spain is:$1500 - 1100euros
The rent for a flat(normal) in France is:$1200 - 886euros
In France for the same work you earn the double than in Spain.
It's impossible to live alone in Spain because the house rents are insane.
I don't know all those immigration come to Spain but one day Spanish economy collapse and blow away.

Run away from Spain.

miguelencanarias
05-14-2007, 04:38 PM
Yes, Adam, please you run away from Spain, as if we wanted you here.

As for the article, I live in the Canary Islands and the almost unanimous feeling around here is that enough is enough. Too many foreigners, too many problems, specially security.

Personal income is lower here than in mainland Spain. But guess what, Adam, I make € 2,156.00 net / month, I live alone and the rent here (quite average by any standart) is € 450.00, which includes a 100 m2 flat AND a parking lot.

So much for your apocaliptic view of Spain.

Ordie
05-14-2007, 04:48 PM
Sorry, but Spain is Kaputt.
Minimum salary in Spain:$680 - 500euros
Minimum salary in France:$1490 - 1100euros
The salary of typical spanish is:$1.090 - 800euros
The rent for a flat(normal) in Spain is:$1500 - 1100euros
The rent for a flat(normal) in France is:$1200 - 886euros
In France for the same work you earn the double than in Spain.
It's impossible to live alone in Spain because the house rents are insane.
I don't know all those immigration come to Spain but one day Spanish economy collapse and blow away.

Run away from Spain.

Earning Euros is much better than earning Pesos in Latin America. Other factors to consider, declining birth rate especially in rural areas. Even if Spain were to falter in the industrial sector, the tourist and service sector may kick in. Moreover, it would be produent for Spain and regional governments (Catalonia, Basque) to expedite small to medium immigrant businesses as a means for job creation.

Ericsson
05-14-2007, 05:02 PM
spain is a thriving place
california and a big part of the U.S have a deficient economical management
not spain...

Hellfish
05-14-2007, 05:19 PM
So how hard would it be for me, an American, to move to and work in Spain?

Adam Weishaupt
05-14-2007, 06:28 PM
JUAS...
MiguelCanarias try to move to Madrid or Barcelona an for this price €450.00
you can live with the homeless.
You make € 2,156.00 net / month. What kind of job do you have?

Macaca sylvanus
05-14-2007, 07:19 PM
JUAS...
MiguelCanarias try to move to Madrid or Barcelona an for this price €450.00
you can live with the homeless.
You make € 2,156.00 net / month. What kind of job do you have?

Do I detect a bit of healthy jealousy, or just incredulity?
When was the last large scale inner city immigrant led riot in Spain?
Btw you are going off topic

Flavius22
05-14-2007, 08:30 PM
here are barcelona apartments 750-1500 Euros

http://www.shbarcelona.com/rental.php

foxtrot023
05-15-2007, 11:51 AM
Sorry, but Spain is Kaputt.
Minimum salary in Spain:$680 - 500euros
Minimum salary in France:$1490 - 1100euros
The salary of typical spanish is:$1.090 - 800euros
The rent for a flat(normal) in Spain is:$1500 - 1100euros
The rent for a flat(normal) in France is:$1200 - 886euros
In France for the same work you earn the double than in Spain.
It's impossible to live alone in Spain because the house rents are insane.
I don't know all those immigration come to Spain but one day Spanish economy collapse and blow away.

Run away from Spain.

Ah Bozo, the joys of the CIA worldfactbook opposite to taking opinions out your arse-
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sp.html#Econ


GDP (purchasing power parity):
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/graphics/dictionary.jpg (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/docs/notesanddefs.html#2001) https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/graphics/listing.jpg (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2001.html) https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/graphics/rankorder.jpg (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2001rank.html)

$1.07 trillion (2006 est.)
GDP (official exchange rate):

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/graphics/dictionary.jpg (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/docs/notesanddefs.html#2195) https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/graphics/listing.jpg (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2195.html)

$1.081 trillion (2006 est.)
GDP - real growth rate:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/graphics/dictionary.jpg (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/docs/notesanddefs.html#2003) https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/graphics/listing.jpg (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2003.html) https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/graphics/rankorder.jpg (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2003rank.html)

3.6% (2006 est.)
GDP - per capita (PPP):

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/graphics/dictionary.jpg (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/docs/notesanddefs.html#2004) https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/graphics/listing.jpg (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2004.html) https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/graphics/rankorder.jpg (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html)
$27,000 (2006 est.)

and France´s is 30,000 btw so please tell us were they pay double in France?

you might find it interesting that the economic growth has outpaced that of other mayor EU nations for quite a while now, and should be on equal footing within 3-5 years.

foxtrot023
05-15-2007, 11:54 AM
So how hard would it be for me, an American, to move to and work in Spain?

not too hard. The best way would be to work for an American company and get sent as an expat there. Some web sites cater especifically to those (but you need to know Spanish)

ed. a small search turns out sites like this http://www.wemploy.com/ (not sure about how good it is, so if you end up working in a bordelo don´t blame me ;))

Adam Weishaupt
05-15-2007, 01:48 PM
Ja,ja,ja,ja,ja...
I don't now where are you from foxtrot023, but all the CIA information is WRONG.
I invite you to come to France and Spain with me and you can see the real life of this countries.
Don't forget that I'm talking about jobs & salaries.
Watch this jobs applies in Spain:
http://barcelona.oferta.infojobs.net/redactores-freelance-junior/of-i014021197312105679400425289451
http://barcelona.oferta.infojobs.net/blogger-barcelona-desde-casa/of-i411413123117081523951542564833
http://barcelona.oferta.infojobs.net/operador-video-para-bodas-fin-semana/of-i356050348018381405332141055445

Enjoy the salary.

Adam Weishaupt
05-15-2007, 01:53 PM
Tell us were they pay double in France?
YES,Foxtrot023 in France you earn the double than in Spain.

http://www.fedee.com/minwage.html

Adam Weishaupt
05-15-2007, 02:03 PM
Foxtrot023 in Spain you work 40-hour week in France 35-hour week.
In Spain the minimum salary is:570
In France the minimum salary is:1,254.28
Vive la France.

foxtrot023
05-15-2007, 02:26 PM
enjoy your short stay here chump, I am sure you will stay warm for all those burning cars and all.

Adam Weishaupt
05-15-2007, 02:52 PM
Merci,borni de cervell.

Zarathustra
05-15-2007, 03:04 PM
Seems there can't be an article on France anymore without the mention "immigrants rioting/burning cars/generous welfare/state of war". etc...

From Der Spiegel, to El Mundo, The Washington Post or The Guardian...

Can't wait to move out of this hellhole for the wonderful life they have everywhere else.