Australia's PM appeases the communists...

[lider_r]

Govt weak over Dalai Lama visit: Brown

Tuesday May 15 12:07 AEST

The Howard government is grovelling to the Chinese regime by refusing to host a parliamentary reception for the Dalai Lama, the Australian Greens say.

The Dalai Lama, Tibet's spiritual leader, is due to visit Australia next month and will hold several public speaking events from June 6 to 16.

The visit poses a diplomatic headache for the federal government as it does not want to jeopardise trade with China, which last week warned foreign officials against meeting the Buddhist figure.

A letter from Senate president Paul Calvert to Greens leader Bob Brown says the Dalai Lama will not receive a parliamentary reception because "I have to be mindful of international sensitivities on such matters".

Senator Brown said it was clear Chinese President Hu Jintao had Prime Minister John Howard "round his little finger".

"This is the presiding officers of this parliament and the Howard government kowtowing to the communist bosses in Beijing," he told reporters.

"The Dalai Lama is a peacemaker, he's an environmentalist, he's a compassionate human being, he's a Nobel Peace Prize winner, and he deserves to have a full reception in the Great Hall of this parliament."
He said it was hypocritical of Mr Howard to take on Zimbabwean tyrant

President Robert Mugabe by cancelling Australia's cricket tour but not stand up to China, Australia's biggest trading partner.
Senator Brown said there were thousands of people in Chinese jails because they had challenged the repression of democracy, freedom of speech and freedom of religion.

"It's time that we had governments with the gumption to stand up for democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of religious worship - the rights that we take for granted in this great country of ours."
Senator Brown also said the Dalai Lama's visit was a test for Kevin Rudd, and called on the Labor leader to meet with him.

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©AAP 2007

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=267239

[ShotOver]

Greens leader Bob Brown is the most left wing idiot around, I for one couldn't care less what his party of he says.

[Dr_ColoSSus]

Greens leader Bob Brown is the most left wing idiot around


I total agree, but for once this little turd is right. Our government should have the balls to offer the dalai lama an official reception, even if it pisses the commies off.

If we boycott one commie dictatoship (Zimbabwe), then why not another? Principles should not be altered just for the sake of money (having said that though, we are in an election year and the average aussie is gonna care more about economic prosperity than human rights in a caountry fazr away).

It is almost ironic that Greens (reds) are criticizing China. China is an example of why communism sucks.

[Opening Batsman]

Senator Brown said

Senator Brown says many things. He can take a long walk on a short pier any time he likes.


If we boycott one commie dictatoship (Zimbabwe), then why not another?

Even better, why not just boycott every commie dictatorship in the world? After all, they are all the same and don't have to be judged on a case by case basis...

We aren't giving Zimbabwe the finger because they have a red star on the flag.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

Howard IS a communist

[Satellite Weapon]

China has a dreadful human rights record and its commie system has brutally oppressed many people.

However when it comes to Tibet, which is a non-issue for most of the world except for the anti-China media and some religosity wanker like the Pimp Daddy Lama (who really doesn't give a f*ck about tibetans, just does his gig for the money and was friends with many terrorists), I'm going to have to back China on this one.

China probably has more of a genuine claim to Tibet then the USA or Brazil have to their own lands. Plus how would the Aussies feel if every time the word Australia was mentioned the Chinese were saying we must free the the aboriginals, exterminate the white outsiders who have stolen this continent and give it back to the natives and host a big Free-The-Aboriginies banquet everytime some Australian leader wanted to vist Peiking .

[Aussie Sapper]

Howard IS a communist

Afraid not ol' chap,,,whilst he may be a lot of things (eg. "Man of Steel" as quoted by GWB),, he is by no means a communist.

[Opening Batsman]

Afraid not ol' chap,,,whilst he may be a lot of things (eg. "Man of Steel" as quoted by GWB),, he is by no means a communist.

"John Howard is not a communist. He may be a liar, a pig, an idiot, a communist, but he is not a **** star."

[Dr_ColoSSus]

Pimp Daddy Lama (who really doesn't give a f*ck about tibetans, just does his gig for the money and was friends with many terrorists),


Terrorists like who? Got any pictures of him and Bin Laden havin a beer?



China probably has more of a genuine claim to Tibet then the USA or Brazil have to their own lands.


You sir, are a f*ckwit. This is the most idiotic thing i have ever read, you pre pubescent bastard. Read up on China's invasion and subsequent rape of Tibet before you post. China has as much claim on tibet as I do on your mother.



Plus how would the Aussies feel if every time the word Australia was mentioned the Chinese were saying we must free the the aboriginals, exterminate the white outsiders who have stolen this continent and give it back to the natives and host a big Free-The-Aboriginies banquet everytime some Australian leader wanted to vist Peiking .


No one ever says that China should be exterminated, just that they should leave Tibet to its own devices. Hosting the Dalai Lama is not a Jihad against communism, but a courtesy extended to the spiritual leader of a country that has had its culture and historey rubbed out by the reds.

Im not sure where you get you grasp of History from, you revisionist commie c*nt, but to compare the foundation of Australia, the US and Brazil, with Chinas invasion of Tibet makes as much sense as comparing the American war of Independence with the Beslan massacre.

[Opening Batsman]

OK, so that took 9 posts for a political thread to turn into immature name calling. Not a bad effort.

[Nightsky]

Read up on China's invasion and subsequent rape of Tibet before you post. China has as much claim on tibet as I do on your mother.


Well, most current nations are the results of conquests, one way or another ....since the US have been referred to before, take a look into how Hawaii became American. When the then queen of Hawaii wanted to reduce American influence in independent Hawaii, she was toppled, aided by the US, later it has been annexed, and guess what, the people didn't exactly favour it back then.

Now, prosperity makes hostility fade and time makes facts, thus noone is crying independence for Hawaii, especially since Hawaiians prolly don't even want it anymore. Give it another century with Tibet and a similar prosperity and you'll most likely have the same picture.

Other than that, look at the boarders in Africa - mostly the boarders between the respective colonies of European country, the tribes had no say either.

That is opening the box of Pandora, and really, you could question most state entities on the planet then ...

[Dr_ColoSSus]

Well, most current nations are the results of conquests, one way or another ....since the US have been referred to before, take a look into how Hawaii became American. When the then queen of Hawaii wanted to reduce American influence in independent Hawaii, she was toppled, aided by the US, later it has been annexed, and guess what, the people didn't exactly favour it back then.


Fair enough. But the Americans didn't eradicate the Hawaiian's religion or star throwing them in prison for no reason. The real problem some people have with China in Tibet is not how it got there, but what it has done there since.

[ltrowley]

international relations aside..what religous leaders would the PM meet anyway???

visiting imams? archbishops? the pope?

i think brown's just glad he got a spot to say something imho.

[Laworkerbee]

China is an example of why communism sucks.

China is Communist in name only....it is more like a Hyper Capitalist police state.

See "Animal Farm"

[Rictor]

Uhm, that's all well and good guys, but the government is just being pragmatic. How wise is it to piss of your giant neighbor, who's size, population and economy dwarfs your own? Like it or not, Australia is stuck with China so it has to at least pay lip service to good relations.

[lider_r]

international relations aside..what religous leaders would the PM meet anyway???



not sure...ive never really seen him make any public appearences with religous figures except for when he goes into a church on the odd occassion...... his government has funded (with taxpayer dollars) a program to get chaplains into public (secular) schools though to act as 'guides' for students. This is surely a breach of protocol.

You'd think that in order to give school kids counselling you would need some sort formal qualification and training, but now all you need is it believe in the Christian god. Obviously Mr Howard has no problems with the religious leaders that benefit him politically.

[Mastermind]

Well, as a matter of opinion and personal conjecture, a revival from Communism would be easier than a revival from Fundamental Islam...and I am not saying the PM is involved in anything...just my simple observation.

Also, can we really define what the Chinese have become as "Communism"? I think they may actually be onto something with the style of government they are evolving. I don't know what to call it exactly..a kind of Communio-Capitalist-paternalism....But, it sure as hell is not old time Communism any more.

[Kilgor]

Rudd snubs Dalai Lama

Five years ago Kevin Rudd met with the Dalai Lama and said Prime Minister John Howard and Foreign Minister Alexander Downer should do likewise, but now, as opposition leader, he is refusing to meet the Buddhist leader.

"I think it's pretty weak of Foreign Minister Downer to have somehow have fabricated this excuse that he is somehow too busy to have met the Dalai," Mr Rudd told ABC Radio five years ago.

Mr Rudd now says he will not meet the Dalai Lama when he visits Australia to hold several public speaking events from June 6 to 16.

Mr Rudd's refusal comes after the Senate president Paul Calvert refused a request from Australian Greens leader Bob Brown to offer the exiled Tibetan leader a parliamentary reception, saying he had "to be mindful of international sensitivities on such matters".

China has long opposed the representatives of foreign nations meeting with the Dalai Lama and recognising the struggle for Tibet.

Senator Brown said the decision was outrageous.

"What is the problem that the more powerful the political leader in Australia, the weaker they become before the dictates of Beijing? Well, it's trade and it's money," Senator Brown said.

Labor backbencher Michael Danby says Mr Rudd should hold the meeting and so should opposition foreign affairs spokesman Robert McClelland.

"If he (Mr Rudd) has got time, yes I would (support the meeting)," Mr Danby said.

"He should be at least met at the level of the shadow foreign minister, which Kevin met him (at) before."

A spokesman for Mr McClelland told the ABC he had not yet decided if a meeting would be held.

AAP

[Satellite Weapon]

Terrorists like who? Got any pictures of him and Bin Laden havin a beer?


Even better there are pics of him all over the net holding hands with some very radical people like Sarin-Gas terrorist of Tokyo
If Howard wants to bash China for being militant commies then he should do it, if the world raps the Chiense for their dreadful humans rights and oppresion of their people, then they are prefectly right to do so
but the Tibet thing is ridiculous





You sir, are a f*ckwit. This is the most idiotic thing i have ever read, you pre pubescent bastard.

Ever hear of the Yuan, the Ming Dynasty, Qianglong, the Mogol rule, the Qing dynasty....Chinese genuine claims probably go back a Millenia and if I'm not mistaken the British sailors, Convicts, Irish, Dutch people first arrived to Aussie shores around the 1600s and the first true British colonisation going it the 1700s

If China was not communist nobody would be giving a damn about Tibet issue, only reson this nonsense is raised is to p*ss off the Chinese

are you taken in by that divine lama and other religiosity nonsense ?


China has as much claim on tibet as I do on your mother.



My Mother is no longer here


YOU F*CKING ASSHOLE

[Aussie Sapper]

If I'm not mistaken the British sailors, Convicts, Irish, Dutch people first arrived to Aussie shores around the 1600s and the first true British colonisation going it the 1700s

Whilst that is factually correct, I dont quite understand the point that you are trying to make,,can you elaborate.

[alfigel]

Well, as a matter of opinion and personal conjecture, a revival from Communism would be easier than a revival from Fundamental Islam...and I am not saying the PM is involved in anything...just my simple observation.

I think the PM is just acting pragmatically... everybody wants to do business with China these days, and losing China as a potential business partner really hurts.


Also, can we really define what the Chinese have become as "Communism"? I think they may actually be onto something with the style of government they are evolving. I don't know what to call it exactly..a kind of Communio-Capitalist-paternalism....But, it sure as hell is not old time Communism any more.

IMHO, with the introduction of legal protection of private property, the last remaining attribute of Maoism has been abolished. So nowadays, the People's Republic of China is an authoritarian regime with a market economy plus "cadre capitalism", i.e. those with power and influence in the "Communist" party are more successful than others, due to their good connections.

[lider_r]

If China was not communist nobody would be giving a damn about Tibet issue, only reson this nonsense is raised is to p*ss off the Chinese


I think it's more to do with China's war of aggression against the tibetans and the continued persecution and torture of its remaining buddhist inhabitants and eradication of their culture, rather than an attempt to simply annoy China because its a one party system.

[XIE]

Who cares. China is more important to us politically than alot of other 'coalition' partners if you ask me. One reason I will be voting Labor is Kevin Rudd and his knowledge of the Chinese mindset. Thinks about China the way I do and I think they are very important.

Also the fact my wife and his could talk in her native tongue impresses me. Someone who is worldly is much higher rated than a Sydney lawyer.

[Calanen]

Also the fact my wife and his could talk in her native tongue impresses me. Someone who is worldly is much higher rated than a Sydney lawyer.

The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive......

We do ourselves no favours by cowtowing to China, even if we never wanted to see the Dalai Lama and don't care who he is - the fact that China said 'Don't see him' means that we must. If we are seen to be weak by the Chinese, we lose face, and are considered a weak nation that is worthy of their contempt. If we defy them, they will be grumpy for a while, but they will respect us.

[Zerazax]

This Chinese form of government is indeed very interesting and different from anything I've personally seen.

China really is only in communist in name... they're pragmastists now more than anything. When I visited China, I was shocked by how open society was actually from what we thought. Clearing immigration was a breeze, there weren't checkpoints or anything like that at all. People went out and about their lives much as we do: go to work, eat, shopping, go to the park, etc.

A way that some people told me was this: the government protects the people in exchange for the people supporting the government. In truth, since most of China is of the Han ethnicity, and the fact that Chinese culture has existed for 1000's of years and is so strong, the fact of the matter is that there is almost no conflict of cultures as we see in the U.S. today.

And anyways, Tibet is one of those issues that a bunch of vocal hollywood actors got out into the public and suddenly everyone is screaming free Tibet and so on without a clue as to what it was about. Tibet has been ruled by Chinese emperors for a millenia now. They're given autonomous region status (favorable benefits too, look at the prosperity Xinjiang has recieved in recent years) due to having a majority of non-Han chinese ethnicity. Just because the majority there is non-Han Chinese does that mean they should be independent? Should we let California and other Southwest states go just because they were once ruled by Native Americans or Mexicans? I don't think so, and neither should Tibet.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

This Chinese form of government is indeed very interesting and different from anything I've personally seen.

China really is only in communist in name... they're pragmastists now more than anything. When I visited China, I was shocked by how open society was actually from what we thought. Clearing immigration was a breeze, there weren't checkpoints or anything like that at all. People went out and about their lives much as we do: go to work, eat, shopping, go to the park, etc.

A way that some people told me was this: the government protects the people in exchange for the people supporting the government. In truth, since most of China is of the Han ethnicity, and the fact that Chinese culture has existed for 1000's of years and is so strong, the fact of the matter is that there is almost no conflict of cultures as we see in the U.S. today.

And anyways, Tibet is one of those issues that a bunch of vocal hollywood actors got out into the public and suddenly everyone is screaming free Tibet and so on without a clue as to what it was about. Tibet has been ruled by Chinese emperors for a millenia now. They're given autonomous region status (favorable benefits too, look at the prosperity Xinjiang has recieved in recent years) due to having a majority of non-Han chinese ethnicity. Just because the majority there is non-Han Chinese does that mean they should be independent? Should we let California and other Southwest states go just because they were once ruled by Native Americans or Mexicans? I don't think so, and neither should Tibet.

I think we have a spokesman for the Chinese Propaganda Ministry on board

[XIE]

The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive......

We do ourselves no favours by cowtowing to China, even if we never wanted to see the Dalai Lama and don't care who he is - the fact that China said 'Don't see him' means that we must. If we are seen to be weak by the Chinese, we lose face, and are considered a weak nation that is worthy of their contempt. If we defy them, they will be grumpy for a while, but they will respect us.

This is the same as could be said regarding the ANZUS/ABCA/5 Power Alliance.....we cowtow to them all the time, but they are seen as traditional allies and nations worth cowtowing to!

[Dr_ColoSSus]

but the Tibet thing is ridiculous


What is so ridiculous about having your country swallowed up by a powerful neighbour, having your religion culture and way of life shat on by for no reason other than greed. Why don't you ask a Tibetan whether this is ridiculous to him, you sick F*ck?



Ever hear of the Yuan, the Ming Dynasty, Qianglong, the Mogol rule, the Qing dynasty....Chinese genuine claims probably go back a Millenia and if I'm not mistaken the British sailors, Convicts, Irish, Dutch people first arrived to Aussie shores around the 1600s and the first true British colonisation going it the 1700s



what is your point?


If China was not communist nobody would be giving a damn about Tibet issue, only reson this nonsense is raised is to p*ss off the Chinese

are you taken in by that divine lama and other religiosity nonsense ?


Ah, yes, back to spouting bullsh*t. What China did/does in Tibet is wrong pure and simple and has nothing to do with them being communist.The US (which is not communist) invaded Iraq and some people got sh*tty about that too...

My Mother is no longer here



WTF does that have to do with anything? All you have achieved with this post is proved that my earlier opinion of you was correct.

[LRPV]

China has a dreadful human rights record and its commie system has brutally oppressed many people.

However when it comes to Tibet, which is a non-issue for most of the world except for the anti-China media and some religosity wanker like the Pimp Daddy Lama (who really doesn't give a f*ck about tibetans, just does his gig for the money and was friends with many terrorists), I'm going to have to back China on this one.

China probably has more of a genuine claim to Tibet then the USA or Brazil have to their own lands. Plus how would the Aussies feel if every time the word Australia was mentioned the Chinese were saying we must free the the aboriginals, exterminate the white outsiders who have stolen this continent and give it back to the natives and host a big Free-The-Aboriginies banquet everytime some Australian leader wanted to vist Peiking .

Bit short on the facts eh? The 'nets a wonderful learning and research tool. If you have some free time, I suggest you sample it.

[Kant]

The Dalai Lama can give both John Howard and Kevin Rudd a downhill racer for all the good it will do in changing Chinas mind.
It's electioneering rubbish.
Who cares?

[oldsoak]

Funnily enough, when my grandfather passed away, there was an atlas in his effects which showed the British Empire, Imperial India and where Tibet existed as part of China ( marked as Chinese Empire - so this was pre RoC days ). The west certainly didnt see it as an independent country then. I wish we'd kept it now.

[XIE]

One of the most memorable things in my life was showing my wife a map produced by National Geographic in 1947. My wife (a Chinese National) refused to believe me initially that this map was real and that a Tibetan Republic really did exist in the period prior to the Chinese Invasion.

Saying that, in principle the invasion of Tibet is no different to the colonization of the Americas/Asia/Australia/Africa. Who are we to judge, sitting in our lounge rooms in the British equivalent of Lhasa?

[lider_r]

i dont think its really even the invasion itself that is the problem. Tibet was a disorganised society before China went in there. The main issue is the persecution of monks, crack down on religious freedom, forcing out of locals by mass ethnic chinese migration etc

[XIE]

Same thing happened to those nations colonized by Europeans centuries before. Settlers came and forces locals out. Missionaries came and attempted to convert the locals. Then mass migrations schemes began that forced our more indigenous peoples from the land and marginalised them even more. End product is a developed nation such as USA, AUS, CAN, NZ, RSA...

[lider_r]

i guess people are so sympathetic towards the tibetan situation because the buddhist are all about compassion and non-violence. I think that strikes are chord with people.