Immigration Reform Deal Done

[Ordie]

Well it looks like Bush got his 70 votes.

Here are some quick comments.

Overall I'm okay with the proposal.


Expect to see paper families. Akin to the Chinese Exclusion Act period where Chinese immigrants would pass themselves as kin of a relative in the US. Many of these folks adopted another surname and memorized the family tree. My co-worker still uses the adopted family name from his greatgrandfather.
The compromise will eventually lead to a bigger bureaucracy in tracking 'points' and 'family tree'. (It's a good time to get a job at the INS.)
Banks and lenders may be granting loans to pay the $5,000 fine. Expect seedy operators and loan sharks in this area.
The compromise is not a fast track. At worst it may take 19 years before an undocumeted immigrant today becomes a naturalized citizen. Therefore not eligible to vote until the 2020 presidential elections. At least his/her children born or grandchildren in the US may be eligible to vote before the person becomes citizen.
No mention whether or not if waivers can be granted for time being served in the US military. Its something the DOD may want to advocate.
To make this work well, Mexico needs to reform its economic policy to allow easy entry for start-ups and regulate monoploies. Goal is to create jobs in Mexico.
Border cities may benefit in tapping a labor pool from Mexico. May increase the number of daily commuters from Tijuana for jobs in the US. US Employers may not worry about providing health care or a living wage since Mexico has affordable housing and socialized medicine.
Expect more marriages between US Citizens and Immigrants.
Be prepared to have an in-law named Maria or Juan.
Bienvenidos a la familia.


Bush Hails Deal on Immigration Reform

By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS, Associated Press Writer
Thursday, May 17, 2007

(05-17) 12:40 PDT WASHINGTON (AP) --
Key senators in both parties and the White House announced agreement Thursday on an immigration overhaul that would grant quick legal status to millions of illegal immigrants already in the U.S. and fortify the border.

The plan would create a temporary worker program to bring new arrivals to the U.S and a separate program to cover agricultural workers. Skills and education-level would for the first time be weighted over family connections in deciding whether future immigrants should get permanent legal status. New high-tech employment verification measures also would be instituted to ensure that workers are here legally.

The compromise came after weeks of painstaking closed-door negotiations that brought the most liberal Democrats and the most conservative Republicans together with President Bush's Cabinet officers to produce a highly complex measure that carries heavy political consequences.

Bush called it "a much-needed solution to the problem of illegal immigration in this country" and said, if approved, the proposal "delivers an immigration system that is secure, productive, orderly and fair."

"With this bipartisan agreement, I am confident leaders in Washington can have a serious, civil and conclusive debate so I can sign comprehensive reform into law this year," he said in a written statement. Bush planned to make remarks about the bill later Thursday at the White House.

Sen. Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts, his party's lead negotiator on the deal, hailed it as "the best possible chance we will have in years to secure our borders and bring millions of people out of the shadows and into the sunshine of America."

Anticipating criticism from conservatives, Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., said, "It is not amnesty. This will restore the rule of law."

The accord sets the stage for what promises to be a bruising battle next week in the Senate on one of Bush's top non-war priorities.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., called the proposal a "starting point" for that debate, but added that it needs improvement.

"I have serious concerns about some aspects of this proposal, including the structure of the temporary worker program and undue limitations on family immigration," Reid said in a statement.

The key breakthrough came when negotiators struck a bargain on a so-called "point system" that prioritizes immigrants' education and skill level over family connections in deciding how to award green cards.

The immigration issue also divides both parties in the House, which isn't expected to act unless the Senate passes a bill first.

The proposed agreement would allow illegal immigrants to come forward and obtain a "Z visa" and — after paying fees and a $5,000 fine — ultimately get on track for permanent residency, which could take between eight and 13 years. Heads of household would have to return to their home countries first.

They could come forward right away to claim a probationary card that would let them live and work legally in the U.S., but could not begin the path to permanent residency or citizenship until border security improvements and the high-tech worker identification program were completed.

A new temporary guest worker program would also have to wait until those so-called "triggers" had been activated.

Those workers would have to return home after work stints of two years, with little opportunity to gain permanent legal status or ever become U.S. citizens. They could renew their guest worker visas twice, but would be required to leave for a year in between each time.

Democrats had pressed instead for guest workers to be permitted to stay and work indefinitely in the U.S.

In perhaps the most hotly debated change, the proposed plan would shift from an immigration system primarily weighted toward family ties toward one with preferences for people with advanced degrees and sophisticated skills. Republicans have long sought such revisions, which they say are needed to end "chain migration" that harms the economy, while some Democrats and liberal groups say it's an unfair system that rips families apart.

Family connections alone would no longer be enough to qualify for a green card — except for spouses and minor children of U.S. citizens.

New limits would apply to U.S. citizens seeking to bring foreign-born parents into the country.

[Red]

I'm no where near ok with it. Illegal aliens are being given all this warm and fuzzy attention while legal aliens who are doing equally ball busting work get fckued over in favor of the illegals. When legas pay taxes, pay Social security, medicaid, obey laws, speak english (for the most part), are educated(for the most part), and earn good money(for the most part). I think the US gov't hates legal migrants. Maybe because the legal ones don't pick tomatoes or do construction work. I don't know but this is all BS.

[Heazy]

illegals pay taxes just like any citizen (tho many times just to keep themselves off the radar). I donno, the immigration debate is so out to sea that this is probably the most drastic as it will get. :|

[Laworkerbee]

Only one side is being heard. As Red pointed out the main group getting screwed are legal aliens who went through all of the trials and hassle of becoming real citizens (and good citizens they make). This is a slap in the face to them.

In the end it will fix nothing so long as Mexico uses the United States as a pressure release valve.

[onefast93z28]

illegals pay taxes just like any citizen (tho many times just to keep themselves off the radar). I donno, the immigration debate is so out to sea that this is probably the most drastic as it will get. :|

That's funny, all the illegals around here work for cash, under the table, and don't pay taxes....

[StukaJr]

Expect to see paper families. Akin to the Chinese Exclusion Act period where Chinese immigrants would pass themselves as kin of a relative in the US. Many of these folks adopted another surname and memorized the family tree. My co-worker still uses the adopted family name from his greatgrandfather.


That was in the days before SS numbers and computerized databases... Ever tried faking knowing someone's SS Number? p-)



The compromise will eventually lead to a bigger bureaucracy in tracking 'points' and 'family tree'. (It's a good time to get a job at the INS.)


Yes, because adding 15 odd million people into already waiting queue of legal immigrants can be processed by current INS staff with no additional time delay (this is how government jobs operate).



Banks and lenders may be granting loans to pay the $5,000 fine. Expect seedy operators and loan sharks in this area.


I would rather have seedy loan sharks than coyotes, fake immigration lawyers and others, whom profit from the current condition of the immigration.

I do have to say that the fine is rather mild, compared to the way some immigrants get ripped off.



The compromise is not a fast track. At worst it may take 19 years before an undocumeted immigrant today becomes a naturalized citizen. Therefore not eligible to vote until the 2020 presidential elections. At least his/her children born or grandchildren in the US may be eligible to vote before the person becomes citizen.


Why would illegal immigrants get a fast track while the legal immigrants do not? My process took 9 years and another 5 years before I got my greencard (the latter supposed to be processed in 6-18 months) - with all of the additional waiting and processing times left before citizenship, I'll be lucky if my process fits into the 19 year prediction mark.



To make this work well, Mexico needs to reform its economic policy to allow easy entry for start-ups and regulate monoploies. Goal is to create jobs in Mexico.


Well, if Mexican government was not corrupt and worked to serve its citizens instead of exporting them - people would not be migrating North for slave wages.



Border cities may benefit in tapping a labor pool from Mexico. May increase the number of daily commuters from Tijuana for jobs in the US. US Employers may not worry about providing health care or a living wage since Mexico has affordable housing and socialized medicine.


Open border with Mexico? Isn't this a bit conflicting with the whole wall building thing and sealing the porous border? p-)



Expect more marriages between US Citizens and Immigrants.


How is this different from what's already in place?



Be prepared to have an in-law named Maria or Juan.


Or Ching Chong... Once again, how is this different from now? Marriage for green card are common place but do require a burden of proof in Immigration Court and sufficient investment in both time and money...

[kaibil1944]

Im not from the States but being from a country in which the people migrates a lot to US i think i have a personal comment. People just want to work and to find a better life if getting legal were easier i think most inmigrants could pay taxes, the inmigrants makes a great percent of the United States work hand, they make the jobs for less money. I know its not my country and you decide but most of the people migrating are people who wants to work not to steal. And yes Taxes = development.

[Lt. James Anderson]

This will restore the rule of law."

And politicians respect the law about as much as illegals ...
It pays being illegal (criminal) in this country.
If you obey the law you get fcuked in the azz ...


People just want to work and to find a better life if

Really? So we should let some like 1.5 billion people in (or whatever ... I read it somewhere ... that's how many wish "to work here and find a better life").
But you're right it's not your country ...

[Ordie]

A political science professor once siad to me.

"The most successful compromise is one that leaves both parties at a loss."

[Lt. James Anderson]

A political science professor once siad to me.

"The most successful compromise is one that leaves both parties at a loss."

What about the third party (US)??
I think the ones that will be at loss the most are our children and grandchildred

[kaibil1944]

And politicians respect the law about as much as illegals ...
It pays being illegal (criminal) in this country.
If you obey the law you get fcuked in the azz ...



Really? So we should let some like 1.5 billion people in (or whatever ... I read it somewhere ... that's how many wish "to work here and find a better life").
But you're right it's not your country ...

I know a lot of people wants it, but US needs to have a better idea to, to be open minded to some cases. Like when they capture parents and send them to their country and leave their kids there. :-(

[Lt. James Anderson]

Personally, I think they should "capture" every one of them and send them back. If you come here illegally that kind of tells me how much you respect my country. Same as if I move into your house without asking you for permission ...

[kaibil1944]

Personally, I think they should "capture" every one of them and send them back. If you come here illegally that kind of tells me how much you respect my country. Same as if I move into your house without asking you for permission ...

I wish you had can see the picture on the other side, Im very lucky to have here in my country, but there is people that have nothing to eat, nothing at all and they go to the extreme and risk their lives for their family, its like a war you make everything for defending and for the love to your family. I guess that its not right to inmigrate illegally, but imagine in some cases the extreme situation in which people lives and that its the only way to succeed. Its a very difficult theme to talk about because you have your points and i have mines,

[tyovan]

I'm happy about some things and unhappy about some things.

I'm happy that we're going to make it easier for skilled migrants to come here. We should make it easier for educated workers who are culturally similar to us (Canada, UK, Ireland, Australia, etc) to move here. It's a huge pain in the ass and very difficult for people to migrate here legally, even skilled migrants. As some of you know, I'm dating a foreign medical doctor and I can't believe how many hoops she's had to jump through to be here.

I'm glad they're going to make it harder for uneducated and non-English speaking persons to come here. My family has come from a non-WASP background (we're Serbs) and we assimilated. However with the drying up of European migration, much of the migration has been from Latin America. These nations share similar cultures and languages. During the last great migration of the 1890s-early 1920s, Eastern Europeans came from diverse backgrounds and had to assimilate to American cultures since the Czechs, Russians, Poles, etc couldn't all move here and make the natives learn one language. However, with Latin Americans speaking Spanish, it matters little whether someone is Mexican, or Cuban, or Guatemalan - the culture is closely connected and the large influx of them has begun dramatically changing American culture. Why should everything be in Spanish too now?? These people moved to our country, yet we're supposed to learn their language?

I'm slightly fearful about the guest worker thing. I really want those people being temporary - but we all know how the Turkish gastearbeiter program worked out in Germany. 40 years later, and they're still there. If we strictly enforce that part of the program, I think it will be beneficial to the American economy and to the workers involved. The numbers also need to be sharply monitored. We need to let in only as many as we need, and not one more - we don't want to lose American jobs because of this. They're here to supplement the American work force, not displace it.

I'm unhappy about the penalties for illegals currently living here. I would make them all return home, not just heads of households and wait ten years before being able to apply to return. I would also increase the fine to $5,000 per family member. Not only will this act as a punishment for those who have already broken the law, it will keep a lot of them from returning to the country since they can't afford such a high price. We won't totally bar them legally, we'll just make the economic hurdle so high that few can jump it.

I'm apprehensive about the border protection. We've really got to do this right. I hope there will be an increase in penalties for people attempting to cross the border illegally, especially if they are also attempting to smuggle drugs or weapons or engage in human trafficking. We've got to punish these people instead of just constantly arresting them and returning them to Mexico. It would not bother me if they make institute the death penalty for people convicted of smuggling large amounts of drugs or of numerous incidents of human trafficking.

My girlfriend (future wife probably) would like to bring her parents over to the US from Russia in the future. So on a personal level, I'm sad that its going to be harder to do that. But from a detached point of view, I know it's whats best for the country. Sad to say - but what can two 70 year old Russians contribute to the American economy? Sadly I think they would be more of a drain on the system than they would contribute to it.

I also think we need to make it clear this is the last time we're going to legalize illegal residents. We've got to enforce the law and not let people stay here and overlook their illegality while we announce an amnesty every 10-20 years. America is a land of immigrants - but we've got to balance that with a duty to protect the economic livelihood and culture of the people who are already here before we let others in.


Overall, I'm glad that we're going to let immigrants in based on their skills and English level - not just because their brother is already here picking tomatoes in the Southwest.

[Lt. James Anderson]

Still not getting it ...

So basicaly you propose that we should take care of other countries surplus populations (while they do nothing about overbreeding, coruption, their own laziness and stupidity till we become just like those countries)?

For example I know some Mexicans that have 5-10 kids and they are dirt poor ... Hell, I would have a hard time to feed that many mouths over here.
But I guess it's alot easier to have 10 kids, come over here and let other people take care of them ...

[kaibil1944]

Still not getting it ...

So basicaly you propose that we should take care of other countries surplus populations (while they do nothing about overbreeding, coruption, their own laziness and stupidity till we become just like those countries)?

For example I know some Mexicans that have 5-10 kids and they are dirt poor ... Hell, I would have a hard time to feed that many mouths over here.
But I guess it's alot easier to have 10 kids, come over here and let other people take care of them ...

I told you not all the cases just some, we need education but the education is imposible becuase of others problems. Im not telling you that you should take care of them, im making my point that they do that sometimes because of their situation and they make it for their loved ones, if you were in a similar situation im sure you wouldnt think about it twice if you have a green card denied, thats my point they make sometimes a bad thing for a good one. My country cannot be compared to US , UK and some other world potences we cannot change that fast, like i said a lot of inmigrants have made great things for United States its giving them a chance.

[Lt. James Anderson]

Well, I understand what you're saying ...
but I know plenty of people that were born here who don't have it easy at all (like having to work two jobs to make the ends meet, working 7 days a week etc. for exapmle).

The way I see it you're rich if you have food on the table and place to sleep every day.
And most people that come over here illegally have that I'm sure ...

[Ordie]

But I guess it's alot easier to have 10 kids, come over here and let other people take care of them ...

In Mexico is a conservative Catholic country where birth control is taboo and abortion is illegal. Very similar norms as the Christian conservatives in the US. However educational efforts in Mexico as led to the average reduction of children down to three.

On the skills issue. I think it is fair compromise. Especially since the US currently lacks skilled workers within the vocational trades. (Welders, machinist, HVAC, steamfitters, and heavy duty deisel mechanics). Unfortunatley we have too many English Literature majors working at Starbucks.

One thing about the temporary visas and work permits, it grants the abililty to go home regularly knowing that he or she is able to return to work in the US with papers. Unlike the current situation where people are compelled to stay, than risk going through the guantlet and getting caught over and over again.

[AZRON]

. My country cannot be compared to US , UK and some other world potences we cannot change that fast, like i said a lot of inmigrants have made great things for United States its giving them a chance.

You use the word cannot I think the word won't is more appropriate.

Without comparing Mexico to the U.S. , U.K. or others let's compare Mexico to South Korea and Taiwan.

South Korea was much worse off than Mexico up and to 1953. Look at South Korea today compared to Mexico .
Compare South Korea today to Noth Korea today , what's the main difference ?
How about Taiwan in 1949 compared to today ?

How about the ruling oligarchs in North Korea blame their national plight on the Yankees ! While South Korea just went to work providing a viable country for the citizens.

Sound familar ?

[Red]

To go on what ARZON said ^^, it is not a case of can't deport illegal aliens. It is a case of we don't want to deport them. So basically badz behavior is rewarded by giving so much attention of helping people who broke your own laws meanwhile folks who are here legally are shafted in the biggest way possible. I did not expect anything else from the politicians anyway so I can't say that i'm shocked. I guess the moral of the story is that breaking the law pays.

[Jobu]

We're either a nation of laws or we're no nation at all.

[Ordie]

You use the word cannot I think the word won't is more appropriate.

Without comparing Mexico to the U.S. , U.K. or others let's compare Mexico to South Korea and Taiwan.

South Korea was much worse off than Mexico up and to 1953. Look at South Korea today compared to Mexico .
Compare South Korea today to Noth Korea today , what's the main difference ?
How about Taiwan in 1949 compared to today ?

How about the ruling oligarchs in North Korea blame their national plight on the Yankees ! While South Korea just went to work providing a viable country for the citizens.

Sound familar ?

Yes,

I had always argued that the key for Mexico revival is to loosen the grip of power between the centralized government and the monopolist. For over 70 years Mexico was a de facto single party state with an emphasis on providing socialized goods and services. At the same time, Mexico has no anti-trust laws that prevents monopolies from gaining full marketshare and deter start-ups.

The Mexican immigrants in the US have a strong entrepeurial desire to start, dvelop and grow businesses. Unfortunately they cannot do the same in Mexico (too many barriers).

Mexico can be a tiger, but it must create a comprehensive economic reform policy in order to do so. If I were Calderon, I would start hiring Chilean economist and economic policymakers.

First order of business, fix PEMEX (need to take care of the goose that lays golden eggs).

[Laworkerbee]

First order of business, fix PEMEX (need to take care of the goose that lays golden eggs).

Mexico's government barely collects taxes and pays almost all salaries with money from PEMEX, if that baby goes down the drain our current problems with Mexico will pale in comparison.

We need that wall up before Mexico's oil runs out.

[Ordie]

Mexico's government barely collects taxes and pays almost all salaries with money from PEMEX, if that baby goes down the drain our current problems with Mexico will pale in comparison.

We need that wall up before Mexico's oil runs out.

It would be a better "oppportunity cost" for the US to underwrite PEMEX capital upgrades than building the Great Wall of the Sonoran Desert. I would do it as a one time 'gift' with proviso for Mexico to reform its economy.

Thinking strategically, Mexico would make a good ally if given the chance. We share many values, and norms. That is much more that what can be said about our Saudi and Pakistani "friends".

[Laworkerbee]

Very true Ordie.

However I do not believe Mexico allows outside investment into their oil industry or any other industry for that matter. To do so would force them to open the books and shine some light on the corruption that has been taking place for years.

[Mastermind]

The entire thing is a huge pretense at doing something while flagrantly evading the primary problem. It is not an illegal "Immigrant" problem...it is an illegal Employee problem.

Reading the proposed "Act" I am stunned by the overt effort put forth to merely continue the present illegal situation. The reason illegals are so popular with employers is they are basically "black market" labor. I know...I used to hire them and I made a small fortune doing it.

At one time, I had a really good construction business..I ran it strictly by the book. I was completly licensed, bonded and insured. I did nothing without permits and always fulfilled my legal obligations ..I paid dearly for that. The government litterally drove me out of business. I was having to compete with other contractors who had "awakened" to the danger the government posed to their lively hood. Those guys worked with no insurance, no taxes, no workmen's comp, no accountants, and no "Legal" employees.

I demanded action form the building inspectors and the other gvt agencies that were browbeating me for all kinds of paperwork and postings and taxes...guess what? To my astoniment, they said they could do nothing!!! The way the laws are set up, there is really no power the state has over illegal contractors or laborers!

One of my customers finally woke me up to the sad facts of life one day.

I resigned my licenses, closed my "legal business", fired my accountant, turned in my Business Licenses, advised the labor board I had "laid off" my employees, quit being raked over by Workmen's Comp payments, quit paying SS taxes, quit my medical insurance for employees program...and went out and overnight hired twenty illegal workers. I began using sub-contractors and suppliers for jobs that required "tags"..like electrical and eco problems. I began to get some really great jobs...the inspectors came by but did nothing but threaten me...I was soon up to my eyeballs in cash flow. I wondered why I had not done this before. I stayed at it for two more years and made enough money to finally retire. Not one regret. My wokers were very pleasant, skilled, industrious, reliable, worked safely and taught me plenty of Spanish. I treated them fairly, paid them above average wages for illegal workers, gave them generous bonuses (I could afford to since I was no longer being robbed by my gvt.)...and not one ever was fired or , for that matter...quit in animosity. I was amazed to see my tool losses from employee theft drop to practically nothing.

There was (at that time) practically NO penalty for me using illegal workers....nothing the state could or would do. Every state inspector I knew when I was legal knew exactly what was going on and did as much to me as they did to my "illegal" competition before I saw the light. I was NEVER even once visited by an INS agent, either.

This new "ACT" does absolutely nothing that would encourage the workers I knew to stop doing what they were then. And, the absurd $5,000.00 fine absoultely guarantees that they will keep right on working illegally. And, employers who have to compete against others hiring them, will cointinue to eventually awaken as I did. the ACT does nothing to encourage the illegal competion to go legal!

This new immigration job is just so much more smoke and mirrors from this present group of Washington professional liars and thieves.

I

[skunker]

It sucks, though, when 60% of the illegal population are high school drop outs which will mean that it will be very hard for them to earn a "livable" wage. I guess it's better than Mexico. Truly importing Mexico's poverty, aren't we?

[Surf City]

I live in S. California and can tell you firsthand that legitimizing another estimated 12 to 25 million illegal aliens is going to do nothing but harm for the average U.S. citizen. It will only encourage more to come to the U.S. because they know they'll eventually be granted amnesty. I don't know about other places but the quality of life in S. California has seriously been diminished! Our healthcare system(especially emergency room closures), wasted tax money for social programs that don't work, education system, traffic, crime rates are all worse because of illegal immigration.

The new amnesty bill (because that's what it really is) should not even be considered because we already have laws on the books that would deal with this problem IF enforced. Our lawmakers and president need to first and foremost enforce the law against hiring illegals in the workplace (U.S.C. 1324 & 1325) then build the 700 mile fence that was voted into law just last year!

Some final points to consider if you are in favor of amnesty, specifically on how it will benefit you: Will the schools that your children go to be improved? If you are doing unskilled labor/work (i.e. constuction, food services, childcare, etc.) will you still have a job if cheaper labor is available? Will your commute time be cut? Will your insurance rates lower? Will healthcare premiums be lower? Will an emergency room be readily available if you need one?

You might also want to call some senators to: http://www.johnandkenshow.com/senators/

http://www.cis.org/articles/2006/back406.html

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/18/AR2006061800613.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20041206-102115-6766r.htm

[MaDuce]

Thank god they learning English is a requirment becuase I'm tierd of hearing about cops getting sued by illegals becuase they don't speak Spainish.

[Ordie]

Politically

It looks like the Democrats are on board. They are considered the silent majority.

This issue will further split the GOP.

The Business sector of the GOP are in favor.
The Nationalist sector of the GOP are vocal and against the proposal.
The Social Conservatives are silent. And for a good reason, the fastest growing ministries in the evangeligal movement are Latinos.

[Calanen]

I'm happy about some things and unhappy about some things.

I'm happy that we're going to make it easier for skilled migrants to come here. We should make it easier for educated workers who are culturally similar to us (Canada, UK, Ireland, Australia, etc) to move here. It's a huge pain in the ass and very difficult for people to migrate here legally, even skilled migrants. As some of you know, I'm dating a foreign medical doctor and I can't believe how many hoops she's had to jump through to be here.



Amen to that - the only thing that kept me out of the US was the redtape. If that lifts, I'll head back. Doctors have to go through a lot of red tape, but, they have a special visa.

[Ordie]

Amen to that - the only thing that kept me out of the US was the redtape. If that lifts, I'll head back. Doctors have to go through a lot of red tape, but, they have a special visa.

Doctor's still need to undergo certification. I know many Russian M.D.'s working as security guards in the US.

[deadtired]

The was I see it, as long as it is cheaper, easier, or otherwise more expedient to enter the US territory and workforce illegally, there will always be an illegal immigration problem. The US can make it really easy to immigrate legally (which could be an economic/security problem), or really hard to immigrate illegally (which looks bad on TV), or some combo of both (which will probably incorporate the negative aspect of both). I don't see the problem going away any time soon.

I see illegal immigration as a symptom of a larger problem for the US: an unsecured, highly porous border. I'm not for building a fence or posting troops to keep out the Mexican trying to find work, I'm for building a fence and posting troops to keep out the drug runner, gun runner, and whatever the hell else is coming across that we won't know about till it blows up in our faces. If there was a way to scan people for malicious intent, so only those trying to find work would get through, that would be great. but it ain't gonna happen.

[loganinkosovo]

Doctor's still need to undergo certification. I know many Russian M.D.'s working as security guards in the US.

The best a chief of surgery of a major Moscow Hospital could get was working for my Mom as an RN....Eastern European degrees and certificates do not transfer to the States as Western European ones do.

[loganinkosovo]

I'm no where near ok with it. Illegal aliens are being given all this warm and fuzzy attention while legal aliens who are doing equally ball busting work get fckued over in favor of the illegals. When legas pay taxes, pay Social security, medicaid, obey laws, speak english (for the most part), are educated(for the most part), and earn good money(for the most part). I think the US gov't hates legal migrants. Maybe because the legal ones don't pick tomatoes or do construction work. I don't know but this is all BS.

The democrats gotta find someone dumb enough to vote for them somewhere..... Felons ain't enough to get them into office on a permanent basis. :)

[junglejim]

Well I guess the law is somewhat fair, by basing it more on the skills of the would be immigrant and his or her ability to speak english. Makes it easier for people like me if I ever want to return there again. These elliminates people that are educated and hard working from going under and sometimes be manipulated.

However most of you are correct when you mention that its slaps the face of those who are legal immigrants to the country. Members of my family has been in the US for years now (more than ten years), with the gov. processing their papers. Now all of a sudden those who didnt go through the process and went illegal gets a special treat, that sucks. :-*$

One of the reason fwhy people want to move to the US is I guess Hollywood, great advertising really. I know a lot of well to do people here in the Philippines, giving up everything just to seek a so called better life in the U.S. and end up doing jobs they wouldnt consider doing back here...sad really!

[Mastermind]

Doctor's still need to undergo certification. I know many Russian M.D.'s working as security guards in the US.
If you do, send them to the Nursing Home industry...the Baby Boomers are going to need every kinds of professional medico.

[Ordie]

If you do, send them to the Nursing Home industry...the Baby Boomers are going to need every kinds of professional medico.

Already happening here in California. The state has a mandated ratio of nurses to the number of patients. As a result hospitals are in competition for nursing jobs. The top jobs are public / federal hospitals with union labor. The private hospitals are the second tier, and the nursing homes are the last tier.

Also, there are not enough nursing schools to keep up with the demand. There is a training backlog and the State is seeking help from the outside. If you go to any nursing home, the majority of the staff are from the Philippines.

I haven't even touched the homecare attendants, which are classified in the same category as "babysitters" exempt from minimum wage. Expect this group to get very vocal soon.

Connected with the healthcare issue in the state, all hospitals are mandated to upgrade to meet current earthquake codes by 2012. Many hospitals are opting to demolish and rebuild rather than renovate. At the same time the State is undergoing massive infrastructure improvements.

Not enough construction / trade jobs in the state to meet the demand. We have too many english literature and art history majors working at Starbucks. H1-B Visas for construction trades may be called for soon.

[Jobu]

Welcome to los Estados Unidos de America.

[Ordie]

Welcome to los Estados Unidos de America.

Do you want salsa, dijon mustard, ketchup, hoisin, saracha sauce or cole slaw on your kosher hot dog?

How about some wasabi for an added kick.

[junglejim]

Also, there are not enough nursing schools to keep up with the demand. There is a training backlog and the State is seeking help from the outside. If you go to any nursing home, the majority of the staff are from the Philippines.


So true, its beginning to be a problem over here since, we are losing our most experienced doctors and nurses to the US and the UK. Even our engineers are going the same route. This is also true in most professions in this country, heck Philippine Airlines felt the pinch when a lot of their top pilots where pirated by other nations airlines.

Hence the running joke in my Alma Mater 4 years ago "Philippines, creating professionals of today for America's tomorrow.":)

[Mastermind]

Our engineering staff are only about 1/2 US born citizens...all the others are Canadian, Russian, Chinese, Hindu (Indian), Phillipino and a few from countries in S. America..Peru and Bolivia I think and 1 Mexican National. There may be a few others from US territories...We would love to hire all American...but there just are not enough qualified applicants.

[tyovan]

The best a chief of surgery of a major Moscow Hospital could get was working for my Mom as an RN....Eastern European degrees and certificates do not transfer to the States as Western European ones do.

My girlfriend is a Russian doctor - a graduate of Smolensk State Medical Academy. She came to the US with her MD and couldn't practice medicine, she worked for about 2 years doing research. She had to get an American medical license by passing the USMLE (United States Medical Licensing Exam). I was under the impression that all foreign doctors had to pass the USMLE though. Now after she has the medical license, she's almost completed her first year of residency - the foreign doctors have to re-do their residency here in the US too, and not just her because she's Russian. Other residents are Columbian, Canadian, Indian, Filipino, Tanzanian, they're from all over.


I was just so happy that this immigration reform is going to focus on skills. The reform they tried to do last year really pissed me off because it seemed like as long as your name was Juan Gonzalez they wanted to give you a green card to come up here and pick fruit and clean toilets - but it is so difficult and such a pain in the ass for skilled foreigners to come here..

[Mastermind]

What Tyovan says is true according to our guys. Some were in process for more than ten years waiting for a US visa and work permit. Our company has been able to help some of them by requesting they come here for employment. Others have taken absolutely astounding circuitious routes to get here by way of other countries...especially Canada. they tell me it is relatively easy to get into Canada...but then from Canada to US is really difficult...even for Canadians. That kind of pisses me off since people from Meixco just crash in and go to work...no sweat. And then, because they are not registered aliens, there seems to be nothing the US can do about them. They roam the streets here like spooky little zombies, hanging out by the dozens at gas stations and nurseries waiting for some dumb ass to give them work.