2 American war planes violate Turkish airspace

[chris450]

2 American war planes violate Turkish airspace

05/28/2007 00:56 Source: AP ©



Two U.S. war planes violated Turkey's airspace over the border with Iraq for four minutes this week.

In a statement posted on its Web site, the military said the two F-16 jets roamed into the Turkish airspace on Thursday, over the region of Uzumlu, in the province of Hakkari which borders northern Iraq.


The Turkish Foreign Ministry had been informed of the violation, and had been asked to make the necessary initiative, the military said.

The violation comes amid intensified debate in Turkey about whether to conduct a cross-border operation into northern Iraq to pursue separatist Kurdish rebels who stage attacks inside Turkey from bases there.

Turkish media have been reporting that the army was massing troops along the border, including in Uzumlu.

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said this week he would back Turkey's generals if they decide to strike Kurdish rebels in Iraq.
http://english.pravda.ru/news/world/28-05-...238-violation-0 (http://english.pravda.ru/news/world/28-05-2007/92238-violation-0)


......................

[a_very_ex_STAB]

Er aren't their American aircraft based in Turkey anyway?

[chris450]

dont know if there are US birds currently deployed at Incirlik...my guess is that the F-16 were part of the detachment deployed in Kurdistan ,Kirkuk if im not mistaken....there is a lot of tension at the moment down there with the Turks threatening to enter N.Iraq and moving troops and armor to the border..

the turkish media is making a pretty big fuss about it
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/gundem/6594127.asp?gid=180

[Hunterhr]

Somebody had the map flipped upside down...

[Viejo Golanchik]

dont know if there are US birds currently deployed at Incirlik...my guess is that the F-16 were part of the detachment deployed in Kurdistan ,Kirkuk if im not mistaken....there is a lot of tension at the moment down there with the Turks threatening to enter N.Iraq and moving troops and armor to the border..

the turkish media is making a pretty big fuss about it
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/gundem/6594127.asp?gid=180

I think is only for internal comsumtion. The turkish army and the US army have very strong liasons. If a US plane enter the turkish airspace, the turkish air force are being notified ipso facto, and I´m pretty sure they don´t ask for permission...

VG

[Amateur]

It could be a reconnaissance flight; to confirm intelligence (satellite and other) about the turkish build-up at the border with N. Iraq. They were obviously careful though; 4 minutes of violation was not enough time for the turkish AF to scramble figghters and direct them to the area.

[NuclearHead]

Wouldn't a Turkish incursion into Iraq be an act of war?

[Hawkeye4077]

Wouldn't a Turkish incursion into Iraq be an act of war?

Who would they go to war with? (serious question)

[chris450]

the Peshmerga and the US troops stationed in the area?

[futurepilot2004]

the Peshmerga and the US troops stationed in the area?

You don`t actually believe that do you????

[chris450]

no infact i dont...i believe US troops will be flying turkish flags as their tanks roll through Kirkuk blasting the **** out of everything as they run over the Peshmerga....:roll:

[SBL]

Much ado about nothing, imo. There will be apologies and that will be the end of it.

[Mahir]

Experts say that, its impossible to go into another country's airspace accidentally with that tech level. Also US delivers its flight plans for the jets in Incirlik, those 2 came from Iraq's airspace without any permission.

I don't think that our army will enter Iraq without telling its "ally" US, if anything happens between Turkey and US in Iraq, it will damage all the relations between.

[Amateur]

I don't think that our army will enter Iraq without telling its "ally" US, if anything happens between Turkey and US in Iraq, it will damage all the relations between.
I don't think the issue is whether Turkey will "tell" the US about its intentions regarding N. Iraq; the US are fully aware of the situation and have made their views absolutely clear, i.e. that they oppose any Turkish invasion in N. Iraq. Now the real question is, whether the Turkish leadership will defy US objections and invade Iraq nevertheless. Personally I think they won't; it would be a big mistake and the Turkish generals are no fools, they are experienced people and they know the strategic implications. What we see is just some sabre-rattling, intended to underline the turkish point of view in various ongoing negotiations.

[syncmaster001]

I remember last year US Navy jets violeted greek air space too?

[Amateur]

I remember last year US Navy jets violeted greek air space too?
No, not the air space; they violated flight rules within the Athens FIR. That means they did not file flight plans with the Athens FIR authorities and were therefore regarded as unidentified when they took off from the USS Enterprise and emerged on the radar screens. Therefore two HAF F-16s were scrambled to identify them (outside greek air space but within FIR Athens); the misunderstanding was solved through radio contact before the fighters met.
http://news.antenna.gr/articleDetail/0,3091,134047,00.html (sorry, just greek link sofar)

[Canadian2urk]

from the other thread......



F-16 violation by US : No need for storm in a tea cup


The New Anatolian / Ankara
29 May 2007


Turkish government officials told The New Anatolian on Monday that the incident where two American F-16 fighters violated Turkish airspace in southeastern Turkey should not be blown out of proportion and are a storm in a tea cup.

The violation occurred last week when the fighters entered Turkish airspace for four minutes, the General Staff Headquarters disclosed on its official website on Sunday.

Turkish TV stations on Monday speculated that the incident came at a time when Turkey was debating a cross border operation against the PKK militants holed up in the northern Iraqi mountains much to the opposition of the United States. The stations claimed this was either a warning by the U.S. or that the Americans were trying to monitor Turkish troop movements in southeastern for a possible military incursion into northern Iraq.

Turkish government officials who asked on condition of anonymity said such speculations were meaningless. They said the U.S. could easily monitor any troop movements through its aerial assets like satellites and AWACS planes.

Turkish Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul said on Monday that Turkish General Staff has not given the government detailed information about the incident yet.

Foreign Minister Gul told reporters in Ankara that these kind of incidents usually happen in border areas.

"Detailed information about such incidents are given to Ministry of Foreign Affairs by the Air Force and the General Staff. And we carry on necessary initiatives. What has really happened will be revealed after the detailed information is received. Was it a coincidence? Was it intentional? How long did it take? All these are detailed information and we will act according to that information," Gul said.

Asked whether Turkey would deliver a note to the U.S. or summon the American ambassador to the ministry, Gul said, "(we will act) according to information and the way it (the incident) happened."

'Crossing into Turkish airspace appears to have been inadvertent'

Meanwhile a U.S. Embassy official said Monday "The crossing of two U.S. jets into Turkish airspace over the border with Iraq appears to have been inadvertent"

The embassy official said the incident was under investigation.

The U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity in line with embassy rules, said that "at this point, it appears to be an inadvertent crossing into Turkish airspace, and we will take action as appropriate once the finding is complete."

"We respect Turkish airspace; we have good relations with Turkey and take the issue very seriously," the embassy official said.


http://www.thenewanatolian.com/tna-26778.html

[xXCitizenXx]

I think we all know what's going on here. The US will officially call this an "accident" but in reality it was intentional. They were just confirming the location and troop strength of the Turks at the border and showing them how easy it would be to put massive firepower right on top of them. We all know they wouldn't, but that's not the point. America needs Turkey a lot more than Turkey needs America right now. Anywho, The US will call it a "Mistake" and Gül will agree, even though he knows it wasn't, just to keep his people from taking to the streets in a huge anti-American protest and the world will go back to "normal". However, one cannot fail to see the message that Turkey is sending by massing troops on the Iraqi border - If the US of A is unwilling to take care of the PKK, then the Turks will be more than willing (and able) to take care of it themselves.

Turkey has a legitimate gripe. Their people are being slaughtered by the outlawed PKK and America needs to do more than just pat Turkey on the shoulder and say "We sympathize with you". I know they (the Americans) have a lot on their plate right now with Iran and the insurgency and all that, but they need to take care of their "allies" before they lose their support. Like I said, America needs Turkey a lot more than Turkey needs America.

Peace my Bros.

[eugenlitwin]

dont know if there are US birds currently deployed at Incirlik...my guess is that the F-16 were part of the detachment deployed in Kurdistan ,Kirkuk if im not mistaken....there is a lot of tension at the moment down there with the Turks threatening to enter N.Iraq and moving troops and armor to the border..

the turkish media is making a pretty big fuss about it
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/gundem/6594127.asp?gid=180

IT WAS a sign from US to everyone who did´t get yet.

[Amateur]

Ankara delivers diplomatic note to US

The Foreign Ministry finally delivered a diplomatic note to the US on Tuesday concerning a violation of Turkish airspace by US fighters, already described by the US side as an "apparently accidental" act. The note was delivered to a US Embassy official at a working-level meeting, contrary to media expectations that it would be handed to the US ambassador to Turkey in an attempt to highlight Turkey's anger over the incident.

"It was a warning for such a thing not to happen again," Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan told private NTV television later in the day. He also said Turkey's response was clear if such an incident were to repeat itself but did not elaborate.

In a statement yesterday, which was made up of only two sentences, Foreign Ministry spokesman Levent Bilman explained in a lengthy opening comment that the General Staff had conveyed the relevant notice to the Foreign Ministry upon the violation of Turkish airspace on May 24 by two US warplanes that had taken off from Iraq "on the same day" the violation took place, "in line with the established procedure that is normally followed." The explanation was an apparent response to media reports on Tuesday over confusion whether the General Staff had informed the Foreign Ministry in a timely manner of the violation. According to Bilman's statement "… upon receiving yesterday [Monday] the detailed technical information demanded [from the General Staff by the Foreign Ministry] concerning the issue, the necessary diplomatic initiative has been taken by the US Embassy today." "Within this context, the coordination between our ministry and the General Staff is being maintained," concluded the statement.
The incident emerged when the Turkish General Staff said in a statement posted on its Web site late Sunday that two US fighter jets had briefly violated Turkish airspace last week over the region of Üzümlü, in the province of Hakkari, which borders Iraq. "Two F-16s belonging to the United States violated Turkish airspace in the southeast region of Anatolia for a period of four minutes (on May 24)," the General Staff said.Turkish diplomatic sources told Today’s Zaman that a US Embassy official was summoned to the ministry on Tuesday morning to accept the diplomatic note, while US Embassy officials stated that the official was “a political-military officer” and that she was invited to the ministry for a “working-level” meeting.
“The political-military officer provided information that was very similar to what we initially said: We were aware of the incident almost immediately and we started an investigation. And it appears to be pilot error, which we will make sure will not happen again,” said a US Embassy official, speaking on condition of anonymity.
Referring to the incident in the diplomatic note delivered to the US, Ankara expressed “sadness” and asked the US that “a repetition be avoided.” Diplomatic sources, who asked not to be named, elaborated, noting that these expressions were also conveyed verbally to the US official.
Both Turkish and US officials seemed uneasy with the way the terms of the “diplomatic note” have been portrayed in the Turkish media, since Tuesday’s note was not a “note of protest” as has been presented in the media.
“We assume the issue is now closed,” US Ambassador to Turkey Ross Wilson told reporters on Monday evening, noting that the overflight appeared to be pilot error. He was speaking ahead of a dinner hosted at Parliament by Egemen Bağış, a lawmaker of the ruling Justice and Development Party (AK Party) for a visiting US congressional delegation.
In Washington, the State Department on Tuesday described the incursion by US planes into Turkish airspace as inadvertent and that the violation was only of “very short” duration. State Department deputy spokesman Tom Casey said the incident is being investigated by the US Defense Department. “We are going to make sure we thoroughly look into this and make sure there are no future incidents of this kind again,” Casey said. “We have tremendous respect for Turkish sovereignty and certainly for Turkish airspace.”
The issue came up during a meeting earlier on Monday between Deputy Chief of General Staff Gen. Ergin Saygun and the visiting delegation led by Republican Congressman Ed Whitfield, who is also co-chairman of the Turkey caucus, Wilson emphasized.
“We talked about the issue with Gen. Saygun. It was an accident. The issue is being investigated. The US Army Forces will decide what the consequences will be,” he said.
The US side expressed its disappointment over the fact that the incident was announced on the General Staff’s Web site, anonymous sources meanwhile told the Anatolia news agency.
“All violations are aired on the Web site, and this is an ordinary implementation,” Saygun was quoted as saying in response.
Nonetheless, delivery of such a diplomatic note seemed to be indispensable as the incident attracted widespread attention from both the public and the media amid intensified debates over a possible cross-border operation into northern Iraq to destroy bases of the outlawed Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) there, and at a time when the Turkish military is reinforcing troops along the border. On Monday, the mass-circulation daily Hürriyet said it was a “challenge” against the Turkish military, which has moved troops along the Iraqi border. Earlier news reports have said the military preparations near the border were being followed by the US forces in Iraq.
At the end of the day, the statement released by the Foreign Ministry concerning the incident was more of an explanation of how coordination between the Foreign Ministry and the General Staff was on track.
In remarks by an Ankara based-Western observer, speaking on condition of anonymity, “the accidental move by the two US warplanes appears to have been used as a pawn in the debate over whether a cross-border operation to which US openly objects should be launched.” Release of the diplomatic note can basically be considered a consequence of the current conjuncture taking into consideration both the media’s high expectations over a reactionary attitude from the Foreign Ministry and the General Staff’s unusual stance regarding the issue, in addition to recent tension over the presence of the PKK in northern Iraq, the same observer concluded. Speaking to reporters on Monday ahead of the delivery of the note, Foreign Minister Abdullah Gül played down the incident, saying such things could take place in the border areas. Gül also said the Foreign Ministry was still awaiting details from the General Staff, adding that Ankara would decide on what measures to take after obtaining a technical report from the military indicating whether the airspace incursion was intentional, its duration and how far the US planes penetrated into Turkish territory. “We’ll take action after getting detailed information,” Gül told reporters at Parliament. “The nature of the incident will be understood as we get more detailed information.” Asked whether such violations have happened before, Gül said: “They were not a frequent occurrence as far as I know. It might have happened, but such things usually take place at borders.”
30.05.2007
EMİNE KART ANKARA

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=112640

[tengiz]

I here think US just wanted to show Turkey:you are just talking and talking nonstop about entering Iraq for months but as you see we violate your air zone in 4 seconds.

[achilles]

The Turkish PM announced that next time a similar incident happens, US planes will be shot down, if needed. Impressive....

[Hunterhr]

The Turkish PM announced that next time a similar incident happens, US planes will be shot down, if needed. Impressive....

Idiotic, really. Nothing more than empty posturing.

[Alex-L]

The Turkish PM announced that next time a similar incident happens, US planes will be shot down, if needed. Impressive....

Its talk, it was more then likely a simple mistake. No reason to enter otherwise. As for the comment about "experts say its impossible to enter anothers airspace with the technology," so now computers will turn the plan for you when approaching another's airspace? this isnt a video game, it does happen. if it entered it was 4 min total. 2 min in, 2 min out.

[Evolv5]

The Turkish PM announced that next time a similar incident happens, US planes will be shot down, if needed. Impressive....
But isn't Turkey a NATO member?

[Desk Jockey]

The Turkish PM announced that next time a similar incident happens, US planes will be shot down, if needed. Impressive....

link, quote????????

[xXCitizenXx]

link, quote????????

Yeah, I've searched every Online Turkish news source I can find and I didn't see this on any of them.

The ones I checked;

www.todayszaman.com
www.turkishdailynews.com
www.thenewanatolian.com
www.hurriyet.com.tr
www.turkishweekly.net
www.turkishpress.com

If you know of any others, please share them.

[chris450]

you didnt do a thorough check...Erdogan was on a talkshow on NTV when he made that statement...according to Hurriyet the statement was interpreted as a threat that next time ,there will be consequences...



2 ABD UÇAÐININ SINIR ÝHLALÝ
Baþbakan Erdoðan ABD uçaklarýnýn sýnýr ihlali konusunda ise þunlarý söyledi: “Olay kaza veya deðil, iþin bu yanýnda deðilim. ABD’nin uluslararasý stratejik bir müttefikimiz olmasý nedeniyle, olayla ilgili Dýþiþleri Bakanlýðý notayý verdi. Bu konuda kendilerinden hassasiyet istendi. Süreçle ilgili durumu bundan sonra onlarýn deðerlendirmeleri gerekir” dedi.

Bu konunun medyada konuþulmasýný yersiz gördüðünü de ifade eden Erdoðan, “Bu bir ‘Tekrar etmesin’ uyarýsýydý, bu uyarý kendilerine yapýldý. Tekrarý halinde ne olacaðý da bellidir.
http://www.ntvmsnbc.com/news/409414.asp%3C/a



Anayasa Mahkemesi'nin kararı yüz karasıdır

29 Mayıs 2007




Başbakan Erdoğan, ABD F-16'larının Kuzey Irak'ta yaptıkları 4 dakikalık hava ihlali üzerine NTV'den çok sert bir cevap verdi.

Erdoğan, şöyle dedi:

Eğer bir daha ihlal olursa ne yapılacağı bellidir.

Bu söz askeri literatürde "kimliği belirsiz askeri uçaklar sınır ihlali yaparsa düşürülür" anlamına geliyor.

BÜYÜKANIT'LA KONUŞMAMIZI ALLAH'TAN BAŞKA BİLEN YOK

Tayyip Erdoğan, Dolmabahçe'de Genelkurmay Başkanı ile yaptığı özel görüşmenin içeriği ile ilgili olarak "Allah'tan başka kimse bilmiyor. Kim açıklarsa saygısızlık eder" dedi.
ANAYASA MAHKEMESİNİN KARARI YÜZKARASIDIR
Başbakan Erdoğan, NTV'den Murat Akgün'ün bir başka sorusu üzerine Cumhurbaşkanının seçilmesi için 367 şartını getiren Anayasa Mahkemisi'nin bu kararına "Yargı açısından yüzkarasıdır. Ayrıca muhalefet blöf yaptı." dedi.

Konuşmasını devamında şunları söyledi:

Terörle Mücadele Yüksek Kurulumuz toplantılarını yapmakta devam ediyorlar. Sınırötesi operasyon yapacağız yapmayacağız konuşulmaz. Bunu ilgili arkadaşlar çalışmasını yapar. İş o noktaya gelince kararı verilir. Biz terörden muzdaripiz. Biz on binlerce çocuğumuzu şehit verdik. Sivil konusunda bir çok hedefler konuldu.
Ankara’da bir canlı bombanın bir eylem yapması sonucu kimisi evlilik hazırlığı yaparken kimisi günlük alışveriş yaparken…
Bu süreç devam ediyor. Bu süreç nereye kadar sürer nereye kadar devam eder. Benim bunu açıklamam doğru olmaz. Stratejik bir süreçte doğru olmaz.
Sabrımız taştı taşıyor. Amaç neticenin alınması. Her bir şehitin gelmesi bizim sabrımız test ediyor. Her şehit cenazesi geldiğinde kalkıp biz burada bir şey yapalım demek doğru değil. Bunun askeri boyutu var, uluslar arası boyutları var. Bununla ilgili çeşitli konuşmalar var “3 ayda sonuçlandırırım, 6 ayda sonuçlandırırım”… Onları bürokratken de gördük, siyasiyken de gördük.
Türkiye teröre yıllarca kurban verdi. Dünyada ABD başta olmak üzere İngiltere, İspanya’nın ne durumlar görünüyor.

Soru: Abdullah Gül, sizin Genelkurmay Başkanı ile İStanbul'da yaptığınız görüşmede bazı mutabakatlara varıldığını söyledi. Nedir bu mutabakatlar?

Başbakan: Abdullah Gül böyle bir şey söylemiş olamaz. Orada konuşulanlar hakkında en yakınımdakiler bile bilgi sahibi değiller. Org. Büyükanıt'la konuştuklarımızı bizim dışımızda Allah bilir.

Sayın Cumhurbaşkanı geldiği zaman tokalaşmamız var. "Nasılsınız iyi misiniz?" 4 saat yan yana oturduk. 4 saat boyunca sürekli konuşmak zorunda değiliz. Devletin üstünü çatıştırmaktan medya ne kazanıyor?

Sayın Cumhurbaşkanı ile ters düştüğümüz noktalar olmuştur. Ancak geçmişte yaşanan krizlerin olmaması konusunda çaba gösterdim. Anayasa kitapçıkları fırlatılmadı. Son gönderilen Anayasa değişikliği paketi sürenin bitimine yarım saat kala veto edildi. Bu konuda konuşma hakkım vardır. Ama konuşmadım.

Uzlaşma tanımı da yanlış bir kavram. Diyelim ki bir parti var 360 tane oyu var. Diğer partiler kabul etmiyor. bizim adayımızın ülkemizi temsil konusunda neyi eksikti.
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/gundem/6608347.asp?gid=180

[NewsMan]

From my knowledge of this, the Turkish government doesn't seem too upset and the Turkish media is what's raising conjecture. This is a total non-issue/topic.

[syncmaster001]

The Turkish PM announced that next time a similar incident happens, US planes will be shot down, if needed. Impressive....

? hah? this is an lie. PROVIDE a link immediately!

[syncmaster001]

you didnt do a thorough check...Erdogan was on a talkshow on NTV when he made that statement...according to Hurriyet the statement was interpreted as a threat that next time ,there will be consequences...


http://www.ntvmsnbc.com/news/409414.asp%3C/a

I am not sure that you can read Turkish because there is no a statement in your sources as you said.

[chris450]

you can provide your translation then and prove me wrong....but it will be a difficult one mate,its all over the news...p-)

i've highlighted the part to help you out

[yorukoglu]

i hope usa knows what he is doing; otherwise they cant pay its cost