Moscow Anti-Gay attack condemned

[AK-Lover]

Moscow anti-gay attack condemned

Russian protester attacks British gay rights campaigner Peter Tatchell
British gay rights campaigner Peter Tatchell was among those arrested

Tatchell arrested
Gay rights activist Peter Tatchell and singer Richard Fairbrass have expressed their shock after being punched by anti-homo****** protesters in Moscow.

Both men were hit on the head during a gay rights march on Sunday. Protesters attacked with kicks, punches and eggs.

Mr Tatchell, Mr Fairbrass and two European Parliament deputies were among 31 people detained by Russian police.

London Mayor Ken Livingstone deplored the violence, as did the mayors of Paris and Rome.

The gay rights demonstrators were trying to deliver a petition to Moscow Mayor Yuri Luzhkov, demanding the right to stage public marches.

Attackers 'walked free'

Speaking to Sky News, Mr Tatchell said "We were violently assaulted - I was battered in the face and the eye, and knocked to the ground, kicked and beaten".

Russian police detain Richard Fairbrass of pop band Right Said Fred
Fairbrass: "I actually felt more sorry for the guy that whacked me"
"The Moscow police, astonishingly, arrested me and let my attackers walk free," he said.

Richard Fairbrass, a singer with the band Right Said Fred, told BBC Radio Five Live that he would be travelling with security in Eastern Europe from now on.

"We've never travelled with security in Moscow, Latvia, any of the old eastern bloc countries, but I have to say I wouldn't... travel now without having our own security guys with us, no," he said.

"When it was over I actually felt more sorry for the guy that whacked me than I did for me... How threatened can he be, how insecure is he to be threatened by a bi****** pop singer who's most famous for singing 'I'm too sexy'?"

Italian MEP Marco Cappato was kicked by an anti-gay rights protester and then arrested when he demanded police protection.

Another MEP, Volker Beck from Germany, was also detained, along with the leader of GayRussia, Nikolai Alexeyev.

Mayor Livingstone wrote to Moscow's Mayor Luzhkov voicing "deep concern" and urged him to get all charges against Mr Tatchell and fellow demonstrators lifted. He also urged Mr Luzhkov to lift the ban on the Gay Pride parade in Moscow.

Mr Luzhkov has called homo******ity "satanic" and says he will never allow gay rights parades in Russia's capital.

International dismay

The counter-demonstration was staged by ultra-nationalists and members of the Russian Orthodox Church. Some of them chanted "Moscow is not Sodom!"

Sunday's march was to commemorate the 14th anniversary of the decriminalisation of homo******ity in Russia.

Paris Mayor Bertrand Delanoe condemned Sunday's "unacceptable violence," while Rome Mayor Walter Veltroni said the "sad" incident in Moscow "leaves you speechless".

Moscow city police spokesman Viktor Bryukov had warned the organisers not to go ahead.

Gay activists were also attacked by right-wing protesters and arrested during a march last year.

The head of the Russian Orthodox Church, Patriarch Alexy II, supports the ban on gay parades.

[FutureGrunt]

Muahahaha, this is rich!

[Laworkerbee]

This isn't London, Paris or Rome. This is Moscow bitches.

Stop trying to force liberal values on those who do not want them, it's just another form of Western imperialism.

[pascalywood]

the russians must be really homo****** to be so homophobic

[Lapata]

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/4qMR1LhK3Ys

[Lapata]

the russians must be really homo****** to be so homophobic

your homo******

[Con-man]

This isn't London, Paris or Rome. This is Moscow bitches.

Stop trying to force liberal values on those who do not want them, it's just another form of Western imperialism.

I did't realise tolerance was a liberal value :|

[Laworkerbee]

I did't realise tolerance was a liberal value :|

Western Universalism not just liberal values

Once again not everyone shares the same values as the West, get over it....I sure did.

[Aerosoul]

I am going to a pride festival/parade this weekend, I am sort of hoping for some violent protests against it. I would like to respond in kind.

[AgentX]

I did't realise tolerance was a liberal value :|
Tolerance is overrated.

[p$ycho+log!cal]

haha me seriously i dont give a damn about homo****** they have they own hood down there and they stick to it.
as long as they dont touch me im fine... they can do w/e they want

[Laworkerbee]

I am going to a pride festival/parade this weekend, I am sort of hoping for some violent protests against it. I would like to respond in kind.

You should come to town during Halloween it's not so much a pride thing as it is just one giant party.....good times!

[Aerosoul]

Yeah, that's how it should be. Sounds fun. :)

[Smok]

I don't like people who make show because of their ****** orientation. Are you a gay? OK. Sleep with your man in your house or go with him to gay club - I have nothing against it. But I'm sick when I see guy crying "I'm gay! Love me, gay is OK!!".
******ity is personal business. No need to make public show because of it. So I'm against any public ****** demonstration. No matter if it is homo or hetero.
That is why I support anti-gay protesters.

[Brzezinski]

"they threw a bottle"

[Xaito]

seriously what did they expect?
There are countries where gay rights activists are protected and there are countries where they would be stoned/hanged/shot etc and there are countries in between - what did make the brits, germans and other foreigners think they have the right to protest in Russia in the first place?
At least get to know the customs of the country you're traveling to or you might learn the hard way.

edit: @Smok x2 thats how I think too

[PsychoMantis]

Russia Strong? I think so.

[CPL Trevoga]

I don't like people who make show because of their ****** orientation. Are you a gay? OK. Sleep with your man in your house or go with him to gay club - I have nothing against it. But I'm sick when I see guy crying "I'm gay! Love me, gay is OK!!".
******ity is personal business. No need to make public show because of it. So I'm against any public ****** demonstration. No matter if it is homo or hetero.
That is why I support anti-gay protesters.

That's my position as well. I don't want to know who's f*ckin' who.

[CHERK]

rofl

What’s so hard to understand?
Moscow authorities prohibited the fag march, hence they’ve been arrested, which is understandable, as the last year’ showing sparked violence in downtown Moscow,

After the last year it was clear gay parades are not welcome in Russia by the majority of the population. Well they wanted to do it anyway and predictably got their asses kicked. Dumb. And now they are crying and wining like real women would do, do something stupid and than blame the others.


“Another MEP, Volker Beck from Germany, was also detained, along with the leader of GayRussia, Nikolai Alexeyev.”
rofl

[pascalywood]

your homo******

Shut up or my boyfriend will slap you with his purse.

[socom6]

I don't like people who make show because of their ****** orientation. Are you a gay? OK. Sleep with your man in your house or go with him to gay club - I have nothing against it. But I'm sick when I see guy crying "I'm gay! Love me, gay is OK!!".
******ity is personal business. No need to make public show because of it. So I'm against any public ****** demonstration. No matter if it is homo or hetero.
That is why I support anti-gay protesters.

Exactly how I feel Smok.:) ******ity and ****** fetishes are personal and private business that I dont want to see in public and when you politicise your ****** orientation and publicise it dont think for a minute everybody is going to agree with your thoughts, as a matter of fact lots of people will find it utterly disgusting.

Anyways those gay rights activists had it lucky. If they tried that sh*t in my country they would have been severely beaten... and possibly worse.

[JJC]

It's an interesting topic of how we in the world define morality, and values.

In many Muslim countries these gay pride people would be beyond beaten and we in the West would call them barbaric. I'm starting to learn that when it comes to this matter it is wrong for us in the west to assume that other cultures are uncivilized or whateva, when they don't show the kind of tolerence that we do. I think that tolerence should not be forced on people, it should evolve from time.

As for gay pride parades I've been dragged to by my friend and I always ask a question as to what is the purpose behind them because I don't understand it. The things that were done there openly is not how I would campaign for understanding and tolerence because they scare people away.

[StukaJr]

What's their next stop? The Bible Belt? Tehran? Personal Freedoms and Rights extend to the point that protect the individual from the prosecution by the Government of the Nation - Russia decriminalized the same *** orientation, claim victory and move on! Personal freedom does not equate protection against other people, be they consider bigots or some high moral protectors of the common decency...

Their obvious tip off should have been bad reception the previous year, getting shunned by the locals and piss pour turnout... Less than 100 people and how many of that 100 were the foreigners/organizers?

[Calanen]

I[quote]
t's an interesting topic of how we in the world define morality, and values.

In many Muslim countries these gay pride people would be beyond beaten and we in the West would call them barbaric
.

Please replace 'beyond beaten' with 'have their heads cut off with swords and the video placed on youtube.



I'm starting to learn that when it comes to this matter it is wrong for us in the west to assume that other cultures are uncivilized or whateva, when they don't show the kind of tolerence that we do. I think that tolerence should not be forced on people, it should evolve from time.


More moral relativism rubbish. We have our views, and they are our views that I think are inherently more defensible than many held in the nations of Islam or other places in the East. I think each of these opinions should be considered on their merits, both West and East, not exempted from criticism on the basis that 'everyone's culture and beliefs are the same and no better or worse'. That's just, crap.


As for gay pride parades I've been dragged to by my friend and I always ask a question as to what is the purpose behind them because I don't understand it. The things that were done there openly is not how I would campaign for understanding and tolerence because they scare people away.

While I don't condone anyone getting beaten in a parade, truth be known in Russia had the Moscow Chess Club tried to march after the Moscow Police had forbidden them too, they would have been similarly roughed up. They had no permission to march from the Police, and decided to march anyway. Well when you break the law, in Moscow or in New York or anywhere else, normally the cops get upset.

If the parade was legal, then, that's a different thing. In our system, I may not like who is at parades, or what they are saying, but I don't advocate them being beaten. There is a different system in Russia however, and a different outlook. I imagine most Russians would be thinking, you people are morons for attempting to publicly defy the Moscow police.

[Kroforit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk_nxxFNCoQ&mode=related&search=

[lider_r]

Stop trying to force liberal values on those who do not want them, it's just another form of Western imperialism.

the only 'force' is coming from narrow minded people who are scared of people who live their lives in a different way, so they have to get violent to try and deal with their insecurities.

Western Imperialism is the exact opposite of liberal values, so your statement makes no sense.

[Laworkerbee]

the only 'force' is coming from narrow minded people who are scared of people who live their lives in a different way, so they have to get violent to try and deal with their insecurities.

Western Imperialism is the exact opposite of liberal values, so your statement makes no sense.

You don't get it. Those Values you hold as "Universal" are seen as Western imperialism by others in the world because it is so, but your arrogance probably will blind you to that fact.

[Clayton Gold]

I imagine most Russians would be thinking, you people are morons for attempting to publicly defy the Moscow police.

This is the whole point right here. It has nothing to do with gay rights, tolerance, or homophobia.

You could expect the same thing to happen almost anywhere, if you openly try to defy the police.

[AK-Lover]

This isn't London, Paris or Rome. This is Moscow bitches.

Stop trying to force liberal values on those who do not want them, it's just another form of Western imperialism.

Couldn't agree more.

[AK-Lover]

They tried the same thing in Belgrade a couple of years back with police protection, it didn't go down so well with the population.

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/8MTQm0jEfDw

[futurepilot2004]

^^^I guess in Belgrade,nothing shows how manly you are as knocking a guy to the ground and then you and 10 of your mates kicking the crap out of him......

[AK-Lover]

^^^I guess in Belgrade,nothing shows how manly you are as knocking a guy to the ground and then you and 10 of your mates kicking the crap out of him......

I will admit that pissed me off.

[imohammed2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qMR1LhK3Ys

score!!! X2 woot

[SOG]

I am going to a pride festival/parade this weekend, I am sort of hoping for some violent protests against it. I would like to respond in kind.

:) that would be choice. one can but dream. ;)

[SOG]

"they threw a bottle"

quick bend over, pick it up.


Shut up or my boyfriend will slap you with his purse.

its not a purse, its a man bag! dont hate me because im beautiful!

[Weasel]

I am going to a pride festival/parade this weekend, I am sort of hoping for some violent protests against it. I would like to respond in kind.

Good luck! But don´t punch the head, vacuum is painless.

[SOG]

the only 'force' is coming from narrow minded people who are scared of people who live their lives in a different way, so they have to get violent to try and deal with their insecurities.

Western Imperialism is the exact opposite of liberal values, so your statement makes no sense.

you mean people get violent when you tell them they are wrong, narrow minded and then try and forcibly change them through rhetoric and media barrages?

is this the same liberalazi's that preach tolerance and then call our soldiers names and defile their graves? the same liberals that denounce white power movements while supporting overly racist black power movements? right. bull****.

[lider_r]

you mean people get violent when you tell them they are wrong, narrow minded and then try and forcibly change them through rhetoric and media barrages?

Obviously in this case that is what happened. Who has the right to use violence against someone who commits the unspeakable crime of holding a different view from their own?

Nobody can change anybody. People let themselves be changed due to fear of standing up for themselves, usually because of fear.


is this the same liberalazi's that preach tolerance and then call our soldiers names and defile their graves? the same liberals that denounce white power movements while supporting overly racist black power movements? right. bull****.

rofl


You don't get it. Those Values you hold as "Universal" are seen as Western imperialism by others in the world because it is so, but your arrogance probably will blind you to that fact.

How they are labelled, particularly by the ignorant, is irrelevent. Its what they represent in terms of equality and fairness which determine their value. btw those values such as gay rights that you label 'western' were not born out of traditional western (christian) thought, those values transcended all religions and all borders.

[Laworkerbee]

How they are labelled, particularly by the ignorant, is irrelevent. Its what they represent in terms of equality and fairness which determine their value. btw those values such as gay rights that you label 'western' were not born out of traditional western (christian) thought, those values transcended all religions and all borders.

Once again you wish you impose your values on others, stop and think about other cultures and try to respect them for what they are.

Western universalist belief posits that people throughout the world should embrace Western values, institutions, and culture because they embody the highest, most enlightened, most liberal, most rational, most modern, and most civilized thinking of humankind.

Western belief in the universality of Western culture suffers three problems: it is false; it is immoral; and it is dangerous.

As Asian and Islamic civilizations begin more and more to assert the universal relevance of their cultures, Westerners will come to appreciate more and more the connection between universalism and imperialism.

[SOG]

Obviously in this case that is what happened. Who has the right to use violence against someone who commits the unspeakable crime of holding a different view from their own?

holding a different view and abusing resources to project it on others are two entirely different things. want to argue semantics? lets go hoe-mo.


Nobody can change anybody. People let themselves be changed due to fear of standing up for themselves, usually because of fear.

people cant forcibly be changed? wow what utter bull****. if i recal both the luney left and zaney right often bring up conspriracy matters concerning mass media manipulation and saturation. even the hardest rock may be worn by the sands of time. all thats needed is time and pressure to change minds. history has shown that time and time again. the subtle art of manipulation can change anything. no discernable force, is force.




rofl


great reply. hows that go again? but i digress.


How they are labelled, particularly by the ignorant, is irrelevent. Its what they represent in terms of equality and fairness which determine their value. btw those values such as gay rights that you label 'western' were not born out of traditional western (christian) thought, those values transcended all religions and all borders.

you label them ignorant while you ply liberal values because they disagree with you. is not claiming irrelevance ignorant especially when concerned with the masses?

i didnt know you could represent equality and fairness born on the back of hypocrisy. ah yes the age old LIB tact of accuse your opponent loudly of wrong doing while using the same methods to gain ground.

[CPL Trevoga]

Western values are dangerous to the West itself. In a few generations rest of the world will out breed the West. It will get absorbed by more numerous cultures. lider_r take you gay agenda and shove it up your arse (no pun intended). Just be thankful we tolerate people like you.

[lider_r]

Once again you wish you impose your values on others, stop and think about other cultures and try to respect them for what they are.

You mean we should respect peoples violent, intolerant and generally f*cked up beliefs?


Western universalist belief posits that people throughout the world should embrace Western values, institutions, and culture because they embody the highest, most enlightened, most liberal, most rational, most modern, and most civilized thinking of humankind.

Im sure a lot of the world who dont already live by western values would love to. Not because they are 'western' but because they are generaly more tolerant, respectful and more free and fair.


Western belief in the universality of Western culture suffers three problems: it is false; it is immoral; and it is dangerous.

What is false, immoral or dangerous about western values which include freedom of speech, equal rights, non descrimination ?

The only danger i can see is one coming from people who see such values as inferior.


As Asian and Islamic civilizations begin more and more to assert the universal relevance of their cultures, Westerners will come to appreciate more and more the connection between universalism and imperialism

No they wont. They'll just be exposed to more and more Islamic madness and christian evangelical views which are sweeping through asia.

[lider_r]

Western values are dangerous to the West itself. In a few generations rest of the world will out breed the West. It will get absorbed by more numerous cultures. lider_r take you gay agenda and shove it up your arse (no pun intended). Just be thankful we tolerate people like you.

lol

how about you try and address your fear of gay people before giving ultimatims to others.

[Mamont]

quick bend over, pick it up.
Bend over during gay parade? You've got to be kidding.

[Laworkerbee]

Well I tried but you refuse to look at it from another civilizations perspective because you believe you come from what "you" suppose is a superior civilization.

No point in wasting anymore time between us. You don't respect others beliefs because they are different from ours, you are an imperialist.

[CPL Trevoga]

lol

how about you try and address your fear of gay people before giving ultimatims to others.

Yes, I'm scared of people forcing their agendas down my throat. I'm not trying to ungay you, so don't try to gay me up.

[lider_r]

[quote=SOG;2531155]holding a different view and abusing resources to project it on others are two entirely different things. want to argue semantics? lets go hoe-mo.

The abuse of resources and projection of beliefs is coming from the instigators of the violence. They projected their beliefs through force and caused police resources to be used because of their actions


people cant forcibly be changed? wow what utter bull****. if i recal both the luney left and zaney right often bring up conspriracy matters concerning mass media manipulation and saturation. even the hardest rock may be worn by the sands of time. all thats needed is time and pressure to change minds. history has shown that time and time again. the subtle art of manipulation can change anything. no discernable force, is force.

Then you have no concept of personal responsibility.

If somebody told you that you had to start thinking differently because they said so, would you?


you label them ignorant while you ply liberal values because they disagree with you. is not claiming irrelevance ignorant especially when concerned with the masses?i didnt know you could represent equality and fairness born on the back of hypocrisy. ah yes the age old LIB tact of accuse your opponent loudly of wrong doing while using the same methods to gain ground.

none of that makes any sense to me so i can't reply, as much as id like to.

[lider_r]

Yes, I'm scared of people forcing their agendas down my throat. I'm not trying to ungay you, so don't try to gay me up.

who forced you to do anything? and what was it they forced you to do?

[lider_r]

No point in wasting anymore time between us. You don't respect others beliefs because they are different from ours, you are an imperialist.

i dont simply respect peoples beliefs for the sake of respect. I examine their beleifs and judge them in terms of fairness, logic and reason.

[Zarolho]

This isn't London, Paris or Rome. This is Moscow bitches.

Stop trying to force liberal values on those who do not want them, it's just another form of Western imperialism.

How is having a parade forcing values on anybody? :bash: In that case let's ban the St Patrick's day parade. I'm not Christian and don't want to be force fed "Christian values"rofl

[Laworkerbee]

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/editor/color.gif[/url]
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/editor/color.gif2531186]How is having a parade forcing values on anybody.:bash: In that case let's ban the St Patrick's day parade. I'm not Christian and don't want to be force fed "Christian values"rofl

What are you going on about you ****? make sense and I'll bother responding to you.

[Laworkerbee]

i dont simply respect peoples beliefs for the sake of respect. I examine their beleifs and judge them in terms of fairness, logic and reason.

It is not our place to judge, don't you see that yet?

You need to get over the "White Mans Burden"

[Weasel]

No point in wasting anymore time between us. You don't respect others beliefs because they are different from ours, you are an imperialist.

You respect all other´s beliefs such as..................let´s say..........the believing in having the right to hunt for whales? ;-)

[Laworkerbee]

You respect all other´s beliefs such as..................let´s say..........the believing in having the right to hunt for whales? ;-)

Men in wooden boats hunting whale like they have for thousands of years, killing what they need and not anything more while wasting not one part of the animal I'm ok with.

Huge ships from Japan and Norway who slaughter for profit can be sunk with all hands as far as I'm concerned.

[StukaJr]

How they are labelled, particularly by the ignorant, is irrelevent. Its what they represent in terms of equality and fairness which determine their value. btw those values such as gay rights that you label 'western' were not born out of traditional western (christian) thought, those values transcended all religions and all borders.

What are these "gay rights" you speak of? Last time I checked, there are no separate Bill of Rights for the men that stick their ***** into an anus or not... It's a preposterous notion that ****** orientation somehow has its own set of rights.

Values transcending all religions and all borders? What the heck is that? What does that have with traveling to a foreign nation and attempting to force one's way of things on a population largely nonsupporting of this particular "value"? The only "values" transcending all borders are perhaps the international middle finger salute and the four letter word... Gay Pride Parades is not a necessary value and is not a pinnacle of freedom that needs to be exported to your neighbors... For example, if a culture finds soles of the feet an offensive or obscene gesture - do you stage prohibited demonstration of feet in faces shoving in that nation's capital, because it's a value of "fairness and equality" that must be accepted?

[Zarolho]

What are you going on about you ****? make sense and I'll bother responding to you.

Fine...

How would a gay pride parade force feed liberal values to anyone?


Looks to me like your problem is not with gay marches. It's with that sector of the population. Who else would you stop from marching? You racist son of a bitch.

[Weasel]

Men in wooden boats hunting whale like they have for thousands of years, killing what they need and not anything more while wasting not one part of the animal I'm ok with.

Huge ships from Japan and Norway who slaughter for profit can be sunk with all hands as far as I'm concerned.

But then you are an imperialist, too. Why don´t you respect those who don´t share your values? :)

F***ing intolerance towards other´s ******ity or f***ing intolerance towards mother nature - where´s the difference?

[CPL Trevoga]

who forced you to do anything? and what was it they forced you to do?

I think Stuka expressed it most eloquently. There should be no rights based on ******ity, ****** preferences or ****** perversions, there should be just human rights.


What are these "gay rights" you speak of? Last time I checked, there are no separate Bill of Rights for the men that stick their ***** into an anus or not... It's a preposterous notion that ****** orientation somehow has its own set of rights.

[Laworkerbee]

Fine...

How would a gay pride parade force feed liberal values to anyone?


Looks to me like your problem is not with gay marches. It's with that sector of the population. Who else would you stop from marching? You racist son of a bitch.

You fail. I have more gay friends than you can shake a stick at. I live in Hollywood and enjoy the parades because they are quite a sight to see. I'm quite secure in my ******ity as well. You also fail in understanding what I'm talking about and instead have twisted your panties so much you can't see straight because your emotional.

Now on to the real issue.

These values are being exported by Westerners onto people who do not accept the same values. Russia is a core state of Orthodox Christianity and does not always share the same value system as those of the West. When you try to export or "force" your values onto another civilization that is a form of imperialism that will be rejected usually by violence.

StukaJr makes a great case as well.

[Laworkerbee]

But then you are an imperialist, too. Why don´t you respect those who don´t share your values? :)

F***ing intolerance towards other´s ******ity or f***ing intolerance towards mother nature - where´s the difference?

As a Westerner by my very nature I'm an imperialist since I have been raised to believe my culture is superior, I'm trying to change that and see other points of view.

I however refuse to respect Japanese or Norwegian whaling, that my friend is a clash of civilizations that I'm willing to participate in.

God I love when you bait me :hug:

[Weasel]

As a Westerner by my very nature I'm an imperialist since I have been raised to believe my culture is superior, I'm trying to change that and see other points of view.

I however refuse to respect Japanese or Norwegian whaling, that my friend is a clash of civilizations that I'm willing to participate in.

God I love when you bait me :hug:

No baiting, just trying to understand.

I refuse to respect violently intolerant Russians, that my friend is a clash of civilizations that I'm willing to participate in.

(And it´s not the only clash p-))

[Laworkerbee]

Civilizational Clash" is something we will be hearing more and more of until we put Macs in charge.

And then of course once he has completed his task the coup is launched to purge the Macs and Atlantic Friend and Weasel are put in charge.

[Weasel]

Civilizational Clash" is something we will be hearing more and more of until we put Macs in charge.

And then of course once he has completed his task the coup is launched to purge the Macs and Atlantic Friend and Weasel are put in charge.

I am planning to build a blockhouse in the middle of Canadas loneliness to never ever see a human being again. Don´t disturb my life´s dream!!! :bash:

[Laworkerbee]

I am planning to build a blockhouse in the middle of Canadas loneliness to never ever see a human being again. Don´t disturb my life´s dream!!! :bash:

Sorry my friend but your services are required; you can move in with Taco once your task is complete.

[Weasel]

Well, a man´s got to do what a man´s got to do.

[Aerosoul]

In my opinion, the Moscow event was designed to bring about this exact result. The activists knew the reception they would get and are using it to promote their cause. It's a strategy.

While I wouldn't do what they did, where they did, I admire their passion.

[Laworkerbee]

I think I need to make clear to some that I don't support the attack on this parade, I find it senseless and ignorant.

I'm simply trying to see it from their point of view and to perhaps suggest that it is time to start looking at how we piss other people off all over the world by imposing our belief systems on others.

[Weasel]

I'm simply trying to see it from their point of view and to perhaps suggest that it is time to start looking at how we piss other people off all over the world by imposing our belief systems on others.

It´s a tolerant point of view. But my tolerance ends where others are intolerant. :)

[Laworkerbee]

It´s a tolerant point of view. But my tolerance ends where others are intolerant. :)

X2 I'm intolerant of intolerance, hence I'm intolerant of myself.

[StukaJr]

Fine...

How would a gay pride parade force feed liberal values to anyone?


Looks to me like your problem is not with gay marches. It's with that sector of the population. Who else would you stop from marching? You racist son of a bitch.

How about a "donkey show"? Or "Lords of Acid" live performance?

****** freedoms and public display tolerance are two different things. What goes in the bedroom is fine, but just because some City in some Nation allows one fringe or another, does not mean it's an open invitation to crusade that fringe around the Globe and any nation's majority that does not accept that fringe is "condemned"... Personal freedoms are just that - what a person can do in the privacy of their own space. Public rights are enforced by the governing body which in turn represents the majority of the public

A "Strip Club" in Mexico will allow acts that will set every health/labor/moral code into Red Alert in the United States... Does that Mexico have a Value that's suddenly worth pushing onto its northern neighbors? Is US suddenly a bigot and a outdated society which suppresses ****** freedoms?

How about a march of 100 Furries in Downtown Moscow? I bet that will send any orthodox religious opposition movement into confusion p-)

[Xaito]

It´s a tolerant point of view. But my tolerance ends where others are intolerant. :)

I think your tolerance should end at your countries borders - Its really not your business how other countries live their lives and what they tolerate and what not.
Russia tolerates gay *** already but it doesn't have to tolerate gay parades/advertisement in the public.
If most people decide the don't want to see these kinds of parades or advetisement what right do you have to force them?
If you decide to allow *** with animals in your country next will you try to make the russians tolerate that in Russia too?

[Aerosoul]

I'm intolerant of intolerance
Nothing wrong with that.

[Weasel]

X2 I'm intolerant of intolerance, hence I'm intolerant of myself.

Punish yourself, please. Thanks! :)

[Laworkerbee]

Punish yourself, please. Thanks! :)

Done I just had a cigarette and shortened my lifespan by approximately 7 minutes.

And man is Los Angeles intolerant of smokers, so much so that I'm becoming intolerant of Los Angeles :|

[Weasel]

I think your tolerance should end at your countries borders - Its really not your business how other countries live their lives and what they tolerate and what not.
Russia tolerates gay *** already but it doesn't have to tolerate gay parades/advertisement in the public.
If most people decide the don't want to see these kinds of parades or advetisement what right do you have to force them?
If you decide to allow *** with animals in your country next will you try to make the russians tolerate that in Russia too?

We are talking about violent intolerance, don´t we? I can´t and don´t want to force another country to have the same values or laws my country has. But I won´t accept brutal force against minorities.

[IronFinn]

Not touching the legal side of the parade I would say that it is easy to bash gays untill you get a personal view on it. I had a really redneck anti gay attitude untill my brother came out of the closet.
Needless to say it made me really think my stance when I hear he thought I would deny him as my brother if I would have found out. Long story short, after some soul searching I understood what it all really was. Novadays if someone would attack him for being gay I would rip the guys head of for it, no kidding.
I would allways fight for my brother gay or not.

[TheStorm]

Western values are dangerous to the West itself. In a few generations rest of the world will out breed the West. It will get absorbed by more numerous cultures. lider_r take you gay agenda and shove it up your arse (no pun intended). Just be thankful we tolerate people like you.

Agreed. The West's recent economic and military superiority over the rest of the world has allowed to enjoy a vacation from reality. As other cultures begin to achieve parity, that vacation will end in a rather unpleasant way. The West will either abandon some of its fanciful left-wing values, or be out-breeded, supplanted, overrun and destroyed - and be viewed by later generations as an anomalous experiment, doomed to end in failure.

[JJC]

In my opinion, the Moscow event was designed to bring about this exact result. The activists knew the reception they would get and are using it to promote their cause. It's a strategy.

While I wouldn't do what they did, where they did, I admire their passion.

If that was their desired strategy, I will say that it is a very unwise one because such tactics only stir more **** up and further endanger the gay population there. Such a march was tried before and it didn't go as smoothly. These foreigners will have a safe home to return to, but the gays in Russia will be further targeted by a lot of youth hate groups.

I would just say that it is better for the gay culture there to live underground and not try to further piss off a society that is not ready to accept such values any time soon....

[Aerosoul]

I agree with you.

[StukaJr]

Done I just had a cigarette and shortened my lifespan by approximately 7 minutes.

And man is Los Angeles intolerant of smokers, so much so that I'm becoming intolerant of Los Angeles :|

I can't yell "fire" in the crowded movie theater

If I own nunchaku's or a sandbag - I'm a felon under California's PENAL CODE SECTION 12020(a)(1)

If I get convicted of having a sandbag - I can't own guns, because I'm a felon under California's PENAL CODE SECTION 12020(a)(1)

If I'm caught urinating in public - I'm a *** offender for life. Don't ask me the Penal Code as I don't remember

Propelling missile with ellastic force of air is equivalent to discharging a firearm by my City's Municipal Code - my party trick of farting peas at moving targets is now a no-no. Don't even ask. City code 10.58.010

My dentist gave me a prescription for 20 pills of Vicatin with one refill order after I had 3 cavities filled in... He then asked me to call his office if I wanted anything stronger.

I can buy a folding knife with a pocket clip in the City of Torrance and get a ticket in the same city for $150 for carrying that same knife clipped on my pocket.

This is about summarizes LA for me...

[Laworkerbee]

I would just say that it is better for the gay culture there to live underground and not try to further piss off a society that is not ready to accept such values any time soon....

I always remind gay friends how long the struggle was for blacks to gain equal rights in this country and how it was a generational battle.

Gay rights is the same type of fight. Patience is the key

[JJC]

Very true.... I also think that the way the gay groups try to fight for their rights only further scares people way.

[Weasel]

Very true.... I also think that the way the gay groups try to fight for their rights only further scares people way.

Maybe. But would it be better to stay in the underground and to hide yozrself for your ******ity? It´s not that we live in the 16th century anymore. Gayness is no epidemic disease.

[Xaito]

We are talking about violent intolerance, don´t we? I can´t and don´t want to force another country to have the same values or laws my country has. But I won´t accept brutal force against minorities.

I wasn't talking about beating gay people just because they are gay.
I was talking about not allowing gay parades because the majority of the Russian people don't want to see them - if they still do it and get beaten and arrested as a result its their own fault.


Maybe. But would it be better to stay in the underground and to hide yozrself for your ******ity? It´s not that we live in the 16th century anymore. Gayness is no epidemic disease.
other perversions and fetishes aren't epidemic diseases either and some of them aren't very welcomed by most people and others even punished by law - every nation decides for itself which of them they welcome, tolerate or forbid.

[Weasel]

I wasn't talking about beating gay people just because they are gay.
I was talking about not allowing gay parades because the majority of the Russian people don't want to see them - if they still do it and get beaten and arrested as a result its their own fault.

This is definately wrong!

[JJC]

Maybe. But would it be better to stay in the underground and to hide yozrself for your ******ity? It´s not that we live in the 16th century anymore. Gayness is no epidemic disease.

Sometime in life you have to accept certain realities. In the 16th century known gay groups would be stoned, burned, beheaded as they still are in some Muslim countries. In Russia Gay people as far as I know are not under a grave danger, more than any other group. It is not elegal by law to be gay there, and so they should be happy of that considering the culutral setting there.

[Xaito]

This is definately wrong!

heh but this is exactly what would happen in any other country as well with not allowed parades. some would use more some less force depending on the situation but illegal is illegal no matter if they are homo, hetero or anything in between.

[Weasel]

Sometime in life you have to accept certain realities. In the 16th century known gay groups would be stoned, burned, beheaded as they still are in some Muslim countries. In Russia Gay people as far as I know are not under a grave danger, more than any other group. It is not elegal by law to be gay there, and so they should be happy of that considering the culutral setting there.

I prefer people who are not accepting the status quo. And people who try to improve our world by not accepting reality. ;-)

[Weasel]

heh but this is exactly what would happen in any other country as well with not allowed parades. some would use more some less force depending on the situation but illegal is illegal no matter if they are homo, hetero or anything in between.

Like black people who were not allowed to use the bus for white people? They deserved to be beaten up because they broke the rules?

[AK-Lover]

This is definately wrong!

No it's not. What Susumu said makes perfect sense. Think about it.

[StukaJr]

Like black people who were not allowed to use the bus for white people? They deserved to be beaten up because they broke the rules?

****** Orientation is a volunteered information.

Ethnic Features are not.

[Weasel]

****** Orientation is a volunteered information.

Ethnic Features are not.

Can I choose what ****** orientation I have? :)

[AK-Lover]

Comparing homo******ity to being black is stupid. Homo******ity is a warped behavior whilst race is genetic. You can't change your skin color and you certainly can't choose what it's going to be so it's inherently stupid to be on somebodies case about that, while the exact opposite applies to homo******ity.

[Xaito]

youre comparing two different things with each other.
Gay people have all the rights other people have they just don't get a permission to advertize their lifestyle in the public in form of parades etc.
Hetero people don't get permission for everything they want do do either - why should gay people have the right to ignore that and do it anyway without consequences?

[StukaJr]

Can I choose what ****** orientation I have? :)

As long as it's in the confines of the law and it's not hurting anybody, then yes.

[Weasel]

youre comparing two different things with each other.
Gay people have all the rights other people have they just don't get a permission to advertize their lifestyle in the public in form of parades etc.
Hetero people don't get permission for everything they want do do either - why should gay people have the right to ignore that and do it anyway without consequences?

They don´t have this right. I just disagreed with the "they then deserve to be beaten" part.

[AK-Lover]

They don´t have this right. I just disagreed with the "they then deserve to be beaten" part.

If they broke the law they DID deserve to get beaten. If you are thinking about doing something that you know might get you beaten but you do it anyway then you still deserve to get beaten.

[Xaito]

They don´t have this right. I just disagreed with the "they then deserve to be beaten" part.

then you don't have a problem with russian intolerance like you said but with russian way of law enforcement (which is also none of your business ;) )

[StukaJr]

Can we just agree that Parading your ******ity is not a right, but a privilege of having a strong support base? No amount of Government's protection will create atmosphere of acceptance and tolerance towards a certain fringe? Not parading your ******ity is not the same as hiding it! Finally, follow the local laws and regulations of the country you are visiting...

[Laworkerbee]

Comparing homo******ity to being black is stupid. Homo******ity is a warped behavior whilst race is genetic. You can't change your skin color and you certainly can't choose what it's going to be so it's inherently stupid to be on somebodies case about that, while the exact opposite applies to homo******ity.

Your wrong man. Every gay person I know was born that way so it's not really a choice for most.

Gay is genetic

[AK-Lover]

Your wrong man. Every gay person I know was born that way so it's not really a choice for most.

Gay is genetic

Ahh, I knew a person who was a homo****** and they changed.

[Hollis]

Your wrong man. Every gay person I know was born that way so it's not really a choice for most.

Gay is genetic


That is my understanding too. Also another aspect is DES taken to reduce complication from pregnacy. I really don't see it as a choice issue. Genetic seems to answer the question.

Even if it was a "choice" issue it still does not give anybody the right to harm them.

[Laworkerbee]

Ahh, I knew a person who was a homo****** and they changed.

Yes I have a cousin like that, he went all straight and got himself a wife and kids, and he is still gay as a $3 bill :)

[AK-Lover]

Point me in the direction of a scientific study which says homo******ity is a genetic disorder, since I have not heard of this.

[p$ycho+log!cal]

I don't like people who make show because of their ****** orientation. Are you a gay? OK. Sleep with your man in your house or go with him to gay club - I have nothing against it. But I'm sick when I see guy crying "I'm gay! Love me, gay is OK!!".
******ity is personal business. No need to make public show because of it. So I'm against any public ****** demonstration. No matter if it is homo or hetero.
That is why I support anti-gay protesters.

hetero`s doesnt have to make parades or public show to be accepted. they already are..............
thats the difference

[Laworkerbee]

Point me in the direction of a scientific study which says homo******ity is a genetic disorder, since I have not heard of this.

Here you go my man

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/03/29/gay.fingers/
Male hormone levels in womb may affect ****** orientation, study says


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5120004.stm
Womb environment 'makes men gay'

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9413-male-******ity-may-be-decided-in-the-womb.html
The more sons a woman has the more likely the next will be gay

[Hollis]

Here you go my man

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/03/29/gay.fingers/
Male hormone levels in womb may affect ****** orientation, study says


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5120004.stm
Womb environment 'makes men gay'

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9413-male-******ity-may-be-decided-in-the-womb.html
The more sons a woman has the more likely the next will be gay


What I would like to know, why are some people soooooo Anti-Gay, Any gay person.

I can see a gay pride thing, because of the first question. Regardless of what I think about homo******ity, it not the end of all weird things people do.

I have never had a problem with a gay person and I have know many. I have met people who said they did, when they just arrived in California. In the Marines, I would hear stories of this Marines first liberty about being approached by gays. Only thing I could think of, maybe that Marines is not as straight as he says. I have been in Cali a lot longer and never had a problem.

[Shturman]

This is definately wrong!

this is definately right

our (russians) majority don't want to see them marching on the streets. gays can live their own life, but don't show their "culture" in public, if they still want to march they will always be beaten, because russian society isn't ready for open gays shows

[Laworkerbee]

What I would like to know, why are some people soooooo Anti-Gay, Any gay person.

I've always wondered that too.

Or the guy who likes Lesbians and thinks it's so hot but hates gay men because what they do is so wrong. A gay act is a gay act.

I don't care for lesbians that much. 1st because my future mother in law is a lesbian and 2nd because I worked as a bartender in a lesbian club in the 90's here in Los Angeles as a kid and the whole man hating you can't have this really turned me off to them.

That said I still like Lesbian's in **** scenes woot

[StukaJr]

That said I still like Lesbian's in **** scenes woot

What's odd is that a straight woman doing a girl on girl scene as a rule would have the least trouble with it and get paid on the lower scale than straight act... Totally reverse for a straight guy doing a gay scene...

But yes, Hot girl on girl action is a Full Spectrum All Around Pleaser.

[Aerosoul]

I don't know how lesbians have ***. I mean, unless they like, scissor or something....

/south park reference.

[Laworkerbee]

I don't know how lesbians have ***. I mean, unless they like, scissor or something....

/south park reference.

I love how Mr Garrison has to become a woman to fall in love with one rofl

[Hollis]

I've always wondered that too.

Or the guy who likes Lesbians and thinks it's so hot but hates gay men because what they do is so wrong. A gay act is a gay act.

I don't care for lesbians that much. 1st because my future mother in law is a lesbian and 2nd because I worked as a bartender in a lesbian club in the 90's here in Los Angeles as a kid and the whole man hating you can't have this really turned me off to them.

That said I still like Lesbian's in **** scenes woot

Being a devout preditor hetero, I figured gays meant less competition. That would be a Plus. I knew some lesbian, the neat thing they would give me inside tips on women. That was another plus. I could identify with a lesbian, having the same likes.

I am not in into ****, I really don't care for spectator sports.

[CHERK]

This thread turned gay :lol:

I, for one, don’t hate gays (and I actually like playful lesbians:grin:), like it in your backdoor, it’s your own business. But I certainly get irritated, and it’s my right, when somebody is forcing his hairy ass in my face (don’t read it literally).

If your are so open minded, understand that some people have different ethical norms which might seem anachronistic to you but who the hell are you to judge. Moreover, you, as anybody else, deserve the ass kicking for repeated shiТ steering in someone else’s house.

[AK-Lover]

To tell you the truth, I don't like gays but I really don't care what they do with each other in their private time. It pisses me off though when they put these disgusting displays of well, gayness on the streets for no apparent reason other than that their proud to be gay. It's completely ****ing pointless and does more bad than good. Especially in this corner of the world where it's bound to piss of the MAJORITY of the population.

[Aerosoul]

To tell you the truth, I don't like gays
.......
Your avatar says otherwise.

[SOG]

I can't yell "fire" in the crowded movie theater

If I own nunchaku's or a sandbag - I'm a felon under California's PENAL CODE SECTION 12020(a)(1)

If I get convicted of having a sandbag - I can't own guns, because I'm a felon under California's PENAL CODE SECTION 12020(a)(1)

If I'm caught urinating in public - I'm a *** offender for life. Don't ask me the Penal Code as I don't remember

Propelling missile with ellastic force of air is equivalent to discharging a firearm by my City's Municipal Code - my party trick of farting peas at moving targets is now a no-no. Don't even ask. City code 10.58.010

My dentist gave me a prescription for 20 pills of Vicatin with one refill order after I had 3 cavities filled in... He then asked me to call his office if I wanted anything stronger.

I can buy a folding knife with a pocket clip in the City of Torrance and get a ticket in the same city for $150 for carrying that same knife clipped on my pocket.

This is about summarizes LA for me...

id almost laugh but thats scary in a way.


Can I choose what ****** orientation I have? :)

bread or butter?

i cant find a smily licking his tongue...


Not touching the legal side of the parade I would say that it is easy to bash gays untill you get a personal view on it. I had a really redneck anti gay attitude untill my brother came out of the closet.
Needless to say it made me really think my stance when I hear he thought I would deny him as my brother if I would have found out. Long story short, after some soul searching I understood what it all really was. Novadays if someone would attack him for being gay I would rip the guys head of for it, no kidding.
I would allways fight for my brother gay or not.

ive never had a problem with gays BUT there are somethings you just cant do in certain parts of this world. for instance if you expressed the very same opinion you posted but in public in another part of the world you be stoned or beat up. gays get their asses kicked instead of plugged in russia. christians get tortured in turkey, americans are hated in france, women get harrased in the work place, foreigners drive taxis, men cant work at hooters, pedophiles cant have *** with kids legally, islamic women cant wear a veil in US courts, there is just some **** you cant do in life. do we have to go on this great crusade to destroy all boundries, blend all lines, force any and all theories of acceptance on any and all culture? (im not directing this at you personally iron finn, just expressing a thought on top of yours)

talk about social imperialism. socialism.

[Lapata]

Meh too much gayness in this thread .Just get it through your head Russia is not for gay parades...

[dimasorokine]

Quite honestly, while I don't support violence against gays in Russia - those guys were asking for it.

I support gays and lesbians having equal rights, but I do not support them marching through Russia's cities and showing their ******ity down everyones throats. Russia is NOT ready for that, nor should it get it self ready for it in the future...

Here in Toronto many would label me "Homophobic" for saying this - which is becoming just as bad as being called an anti-semite (the evil of all evils!)

-Dima

[Hollis]

I do not support them marching through Russia's cities and showing their ******ity down everyones throats.


Dima,
I think that is correct. No one should force themselves/beliefs down any one's throat.

[MitchG]

I got no problems with gays at all but as some of you have said its a "genetic" process & the person is born homo******...i think of it as a genetic defect, a male born without a biological urge to procreate, something that all species on earth have...Male + female = life...
just a thought...i got no problems with them in general im not trying to start anything.

[AK-Lover]

Your avatar says otherwise.

On the contrary you seem to like them. Why so defensive?

[Kroforit]

who forced you to do anything? and what was it they forced you to do?

lider, is it ok for homo******s to shower in public showers, like gym showers for example?

[Kroforit]

lol

how about you try and address your fear of gay people before giving ultimatims to others.

you mean wanting to punch a guy for touching you in the wrong place is being afraid of him?

[Kroforit]

Can I choose what ****** orientation I have? :)

yes you can, but only if you are smart enough to challenge your self mentaly. You are not born being gay, you know?

[Kroforit]

On the contrary you seem to like them. Why so defensive?

Because he is gay, or he wants to be one. Seems like he is not sure since he never revealed himself.

[Kroforit]

These values are being exported by Westerners onto people who do not accept the same values. Russia is a core state of Orthodox Christianity and does not always share the same value system as those of the West. When you try to export or "force" your values onto another civilization that is a form of imperialism that will be rejected usually by violence.

StukaJr makes a great case as well.

I agree with you to some extent. Even though homo******ity is a form, predominately of western psychology, I dont think that gays are spreading western imperialism, they have their own agenda.

[Aerosoul]

On the contrary you seem to like them. Why so defensive?

I was just trying to poke a little fun, no insult was intended.

[Kroforit]

If that was their desired strategy, I will say that it is a very unwise one because such tactics only stir more **** up and further endanger the gay population there. Such a march was tried before and it didn't go as smoothly. These foreigners will have a safe home to return to, but the gays in Russia will be further targeted by a lot of youth hate groups.

I would just say that it is better for the gay culture there to live underground and not try to further piss off a society that is not ready to accept such values any time soon....

We are given natural instictints for a reason.

[Aerosoul]

Even though homo******ity is a form, predominately of western psychology,
Wait, so only westerners can be gay?
rofl

[Kroforit]

Wait, so only westerners can be gay?
rofl

go translate word "predominantly"

[Aerosoul]

go translate word "predominantly"
Translate? To what language?
Look, I know what the word means. To say that westerners are significantly more likely to be gay is just a laughable opinion to me. That is what I understand your post to mean.

[Kroforit]

Translate? To what language?
Look, I know what the word means. To say that westerners are significantly more likely to be gay is just a laughable opinion to me.

There are more homo****** in the west then there are in russia, thats per certain amount of people.

[Aerosoul]

The gay population figures have and will be for a long time, speculation. You cannot prove such a statistic to any verifiable extent. Not to me.

[Hollis]

There are more homo****** in the west then there are in russia, thats per certain amount of people.

Denial is the first sign of latency.

[Doublethinker]

We are talking about violent intolerance, don´t we? I can´t and don´t want to force another country to have the same values or laws my country has. But I won´t accept brutal force against minorities.

You know, child molesters could also be classified as a "minority".

Yes, even most people in your country would probably don't mind against someone breaking their noses.

[futurepilot2004]

You know, child molesters could also be classified as a "minority".

Yes, even most people in your country would probably don't mind against someone breaking their noses.
Ah the subtle linking of gay men and paedophilia. Do you never get tired of of continually ranting on?

[Doublethinker]

Ah the subtle linking of gay men and paedophilia. Do you never get tired of of continually ranting on?

No, I don't.

[lider_r]

It is not our place to judge, don't you see that yet?

Its the duty of anybody with moral decency to judge actions which are based on racism and discrimination. Regardless of what religion or country they pertain to.

Do you extend this courtesy of 'not judging people because its not our place' to people like Saddam and Osama?


You need to get over the "White Mans Burden"

Do you see equality and respect for individuals of different ****** persuations as a burden?

[lider_r]

I think Stuka expressed it most eloquently. There should be no rights based on ******ity, ****** preferences or ****** perversions, there should be just human rights.

They are one in the same. Human rights are intrinsicly linked with the right for individuals to have relationships with members of their ***, regardless of weather nazi's like you approve of it or not.

[lider_r]

What are these "gay rights" you speak of? Last time I checked, there are no separate Bill of Rights for the men that stick their ***** into an anus or not... It's a preposterous notion that ****** orientation somehow has its own set of rights.

Who said it does? They are woven into equality laws.


Values transcending all religions and all borders? What the heck is that?

Values which transcend religions and borders are those which aren't tolerated just because they are the social norm or dolled out in holy books as commandments. They are based on fairness, justice, equality etc


What does that have with traveling to a foreign nation and attempting to force one's way of things on a population largely nonsupporting of this particular "value"?

Again, the only 'force' was coming from those who were holding a peaceful demonstration asking to be treated as equal citizens.


The only "values" transcending all borders are perhaps the international middle finger salute and the four letter word... Gay Pride Parades is not a necessary value and is not a pinnacle of freedom that needs to be exported to your neighbors...

Why not? Why should people who live in countries where they are persecuted for their homo******ity have to put up with that? Why should we respect that?


For example, if a culture finds soles of the feet an offensive or obscene gesture - do you stage prohibited demonstration of feet in faces shoving in that nation's capital, because it's a value of "fairness and equality" that must be accepted?

If a culture found the soles of somebodys feet an obsence gesture they are free to parade as much as they like about it, without the fear of being attacked. However, they aren't free to force it on anybody either by beating up those who dare to challenge them or the laws they may introduce to cement those views into the legal system.

[Xaito]

There are more homo****** in the west then there are in russia, thats per certain amount of people.

thats a wrong conclusion - there are more homo******s in the west who admit they are then in russia.
There were always homo******s all around the world no matter if they were accepted or not.
I don't think you can choose to be homo****** or not - I don't know what triggers it but most people just notice when they hit puberty that they aren't interested in the other *** or later if they deny it at first.
Homo******ity is also known from animals - and I don't think they are intelligent enough to choose which *** they find more attractive themselves ;)
Its instincts and urges which somehow get messed up.
That said - its still a perversion for me and I don't want to see them show it off on parades and stuff, I don't think they should be allowed to marry and especially important I think they should not be allowed to adopt children.

[Brute]

Can I choose what ****** orientation I have? :)


Maybe, maybe not. But you definitely can choose not to flaunt it in my face.

[CPL Trevoga]

They are one in the same. Human rights are intrinsicly linked with the right for individuals to have relationships with members of their ***, regardless of weather nazi's like you approve of it or not.

I'm a kind of liberal, if I was a nazi i would advocate putting people like you in a gasenwagen, but I'm nice guy. I just don't think you gay people should have separate "gay rights."

[AK-Lover]

And whats this crap I heard about somebody wanting to give gays the right to adopt children. Is it that bad over there?

[Weasel]

Maybe, maybe not. But you definitely can choose not to flaunt it in my face.

You aren´t sure of your own ****** orientation and feel threatened? p-)

[AK-Lover]

You aren´t sure of your own ****** orientation and feel threatened? p-)

No it's absolutely ****ing unneccessary for you to do that. Weasel, what country are you from?

[Weasel]

No it's absolutely ****ing unneccessary for you to do that. Weasel, what country are you from?

Does it matter?

[AK-Lover]

Does it matter?

It would answer quite a few questions from the get-go.

[IronFinn]

ive never had a problem with gays BUT there are somethings you just cant do in certain parts of this world. for instance if you expressed the very same opinion you posted but in public in another part of the world you be stoned or beat up. gays get their asses kicked instead of plugged in russia. christians get tortured in turkey, americans are hated in france, women get harrased in the work place, foreigners drive taxis, men cant work at hooters, pedophiles cant have *** with kids legally, islamic women cant wear a veil in US courts, there is just some **** you cant do in life. do we have to go on this great crusade to destroy all boundries, blend all lines, force any and all theories of acceptance on any and all culture? (im not directing this at you personally iron finn, just expressing a thought on top of yours)

talk about social imperialism. socialism.

Generally I agree for the first part that in some parts of the world some things are not accepted as here, like gayness to which many people respond with violence. However, should we accept such behaviour just because some people are intolerant and act like that? Would you like to be called freak, unnatural or pedophile if you would be gay? Wouldn´t you like to have the right to walk on the streets with your boyfriend hand in hand without getting beated because of it? Or would you like to hear that one of your close relatives has been beated up just because he likes men? I know this is not the case in most places and personally I have allways instructed my brother to avoid such behaviour in public because many people are so intolerant. I know because I was one of them. Heck, even in Finland gayness was a crime until 1970´s.

All things are not acceptable like you said, but I do not agree with you on the idea that gayness is equal to pedophilia. That is a really f*cked up view. Adult male raping a child is not the same as two men having *** because they want to, even if you find that act discusting. Btw, I used the exact same generalisation untill my brother told me he was gay. It is easy to summ up all gays and pedophiles and say that "they are all unnatural monsters" untill someone close to you informs that he is gay. Then you start to see the person behind that feared and hated character.

[toki]

There are more homo****** in the west then there are in russia, thats per certain amount of people.

Haaahahahahaa.... rofl rofl

Quote of the week.

[Weasel]

It would answer quite a few questions from the get-go.

What questions would it answer if I would be from

A) the USA?
B) China?
C) Timbuktu?

[toki]

You know, child molesters could also be classified as a "minority".

Yes, even most people in your country would probably don't mind against someone breaking their noses.
Cut the propaganda, you won't change alot of opinions here.
"Child-Molesters". :roll:

I'm not for forcing my "tolerance" onto someone. It's your opinion. My opinion is, that people like you need a broken nose every now and then. See we're equally intolerant. It's not worth a discussion in the end. These threads are worthless since they're not really an exchange of opinions.
They're maybe good for the laughs.

[Weasel]

Calm down and don´t take it too serious. :)

[toki]

Calm down and don´t take it too serious. :)
I don't take it too serious. I'm just honest. i'm not really 'excited', just saying not every topic is worth a discussion. Idiots are idiots, sometimes, funny, normally lame. :)

[Weasel]

I don't take it too serious. I'm just honest. i'm not really 'excited', just saying not every topic is worth a discussion. Idiots are idiots, sometimes, funny, normally lame. :)

True. And they remain what they are: idiots. ;-)

[Laworkerbee]

My opinion is, that people like you need a broken nose every now and then.

I just had the grandest vision of your avatar kicking the living crap out of someone. :)

[Thor]

You can't really stop people from being gay. But I don't want to see any kind of ******ly oriented marches/parades out in the public.

[toki]

I just had the grandest vision of your avatar kicking the living crap out of someone. :)

I would allow her to beat the crap out of me while cursing in austrian.
Oh well, we're leaving the fine trail of this thread.p-)

[Laworkerbee]

I would allow her to beat the crap out of me while cursing in austrian.

Sexy and Scary at the same time. I'm turned on p-)

[daily666]

You can't really stop people from being gay. But I don't want to see any kind of ******ly oriented marches/parades out in the public.

QFT...

No problems with gays, but why do they have to show their gayness to everybody? What's the point? Show off? Because it's fashionable?

[Laworkerbee]

You can't really stop people from being gay.

Why would you want to? look on the bright side of things it's less competition for us breeders.

[StukaJr]

Who said it does? They are woven into equality laws.


So there is no separate set of Gay Rights? Glad we have that squared away.



Values which transcend religions and borders are those which aren't tolerated just because they are the social norm or dolled out in holy books as commandments. They are based on fairness, justice, equality etc


That's all high and mighty, but I fail to see how jumping up and down on a pink float is based on justice, fairness or equality.



Again, the only 'force' was coming from those who were holding a peaceful demonstration asking to be treated as equal citizens.


Most of them being foreigners, small in numbers, unsupported by the local community and defying the Local Authority... I saw no 'force' in the video, just some bigot bait, hissyfits and a piss poor turnout.



Why not? Why should people who live in countries where they are persecuted for their homo******ity have to put up with that? Why should we respect that?


Every consulate recommends to follow the Nation's laws when abroad - like having an explicit permission to hold a public gathering when required. Traveling on Moral crusades from abroad and having piss pour support by locals seems to be a developing trend for Europe.

It's not criminal to be a homo****** in Russia anymore, but then certain groups are extremely hostile towards the homo******s - the local gays are also not keen on parading around town and that explains lacking numbers...



If a culture found the soles of somebodys feet an obsence gesture they are free to parade as much as they like about it, without the fear of being attacked. However, they aren't free to force it on anybody either by beating up those who dare to challenge them or the laws they may introduce to cement those views into the legal system.

And parading would do nothing, other than create clashes between supporters and opposition - eventually leading to prohibition of such parades in the name of the public security. Marching in prohibited parade would create arrests. Especially, if supporters are largely foreign visitors in numbers less than a hundred, baiting more negative attention and hardly justifying the required police protection...

[Weasel]

Why would you want to? look on the bright side of things it's less competition for us breeders.

I like your programmatic point of view. Thumbs up. woot

[lider_r]

You can't really stop people from being gay. But I don't want to see any kind of ******ly oriented marches/parades out in the public.

im sure gay people don't want to have to see people like you who share your views either, but its called living in a plural society.

ie people put up with other peoples differences, as long as they are causing no harm to anybody.

why would you want to 'stop' people from being gay? Unless you had some sort of rediculous religion conviction that it was a sin to be homo******...

[lider_r]

That's all high and mighty, but I fail to see how jumping up and down on a pink float is based on justice, fairness or equality.


Because if somebody wants to jump and down on a pink float then they should be free to do so, just like you should be free to jump up and down a float celebrating your hetro******ity, should you feel the desire to do so.


Most of them being foreigners, small in numbers, unsupported by the local community and defying the Local Authority...

Abolition of slavery wasn't supported by the local community in parts of America. Authority and majority opinion is not always on the right side of the argument.


I saw no 'force' in the video, just some bigot bait, hissyfits and a piss poor turnout.

So it was their fault they got beaten up? They asked for it by holding a parade?


Every consulate recommends to follow the Nation's laws when abroad - like having an explicit permission to hold a public gathering when required. Traveling on Moral crusades from abroad and having piss pour support by locals seems to be a developing trend for Europe.

Laws or no laws, beating somebody up for being homo****** is unjustified no matter what you think.



And parading would do nothing, other than create clashes between supporters and opposition - eventually leading to prohibition of such parades in the name of the public security. Marching in prohibited parade would create arrests. Especially, if supporters are largely foreign visitors in numbers less than a hundred, baiting more negative attention and hardly justifying the required police protection...

Actually parading and civil demonstration is the best way to cause change. It helped bring about civil rights in your country for black people, ousted the british from india, helped bring down the USSR....

I think you'll find there are more people in this world appauled at the violence directed towards the homo****** people in this parade, rather than showing any sympathy towards the neo-nazis who carried out that violence.

[DaGreatRV]

QFT...

No problems with gays, but why do they have to show their gayness to everybody? What's the point? Show off? Because it's fashionable?


Well if they don't show it, you wouldn't see it. If you don't see it you can't accept it.

Black people in the US were allways visible, jews in WW2 had to wear yellow stars to make them visible.

Why did the american civil rights movement march in the 60's? For their right to be conciderd equal to a person who is caucasian? Or was it just to show their 'blackness'?

People can't chose their ****** orientation, they are born that way. Just like you can't chose the colour of your skin, eyes, shape of your nose, etc..



BTW, I have read reports that more than 50% of the people on the boats(amsterdam gay parade) is hetero!
Any excuse for a party is a good one, so to say :).

[CPL Trevoga]

People can't chose their ****** orientation, they are born that way. Just like you can't chose the colour of your skin, eyes, shape of your nose, etc..


Very good comparison, except same *** attraction is a unnatural, and it's a mistake of nature. It's a birth defect basically.

[Aerosoul]

Very good comparison, except same *** attraction is a unnatural, and it's a mistake of nature. It's a birth defect basically.
If it's a birth defect, then it's nature's doing. It just...happens.
So uhm...indeed it cannot be chosen. I know I didn't choose.

[Elemental666]

Very good comparison, except same *** attraction is a unnatural, and it's a mistake of nature. It's a birth defect basically.

rofl"Mistake of nature". Sure buddy.

[toki]

Very good comparison, except same *** attraction is a unnatural, and it's a mistake of nature. It's a birth defect basically.

Unnatural, but it comes by nature in a never changing ratio. Unnatural as in 'man made'? Who invented it? Questions over questions. Btw, variaton without intention is a principle of nature. Its instability is its motor. Don't create facts by yourself. "Nature" is too wide to include it in a simple negation.

[Weasel]

Very good comparison, except same *** attraction is a unnatural, and it's a mistake of nature. It's a birth defect basically.

It´s a disease and punishment of god. :roll:

[CPL Trevoga]

If it's a birth defect, then it's nature's doing. It just...happens.
So uhm...indeed it cannot be chosen. I know I didn't choose.

Unnatural is bad choice of word, from biological point of veiw nature did not intended for men to be born gay or born blind, etc.


It´s a disease and punishment of god.

I hope you being funny. It's not a disease and God's punishment will come on Judgment day.

[DaGreatRV]

Very good comparison, except same *** attraction is a unnatural, and it's a mistake of nature. It's a birth defect basically.


Should a black person dye his/her skin white? Do brown eyed people need to wear coloured contacts? Should everybody get a nosejob?

:cantbeli:

It's just a deviation, get over it. Not everything needs to fixed just to conform.

[Laworkerbee]

Very good comparison, except same *** attraction is a unnatural, and it's a mistake of nature. It's a birth defect basically.

No It's gods will

Allah be Praised

[CPL Trevoga]

It's just a deviation, get over it. Not everything needs to fixed just to conform.

Conform? If everybody was gay, there would be no continuation of the human species. Again mixing race and a birth defect is lacks any sense.

[Laworkerbee]

Conform? If everybody was gay, there would be no continuation of the human species.

I've often wondered if this perhaps is some divine way of dealing with human over population in a humane way.

[StukaJr]

Because if somebody wants to jump and down on a pink float then they should be free to do so, just like you should be free to jump up and down a float celebrating your hetro******ity, should you feel the desire to do so.


Well, some of us work for a living, so no thanks.



Abolition of slavery wasn't supported by the local community in parts of America. Authority and majority opinion is not always on the right side of the argument.


Secession was only partially caused by the disagreements over the slavery issues - some states that had no slaves joined the South anyways. Also, the strength is in numbers - if less than hundred people show up to demonstrate something, it's a bad show.



So it was their fault they got beaten up? They asked for it by holding a parade?


Well, if someone tells you not to do something and you do it, do you not expect to hear "I told you so"? They asked to hold a parade and were told no, they went and did it anyways...




Laws or no laws, beating somebody up for being homo****** is unjustified no matter what you think.


So it's okay to brake one law and defy the local law enforcement, yet cry expect the law to give protection in that very instance?



Actually parading and civil demonstration is the best way to cause change. It helped bring about civil rights in your country for black people, ousted the british from india, helped bring down the USSR....


Not if you have handful of foreigners and piss pour support, and you still need a pretty white piece of paper which makes the demonstration legal... Obviously, if the demonstration a year before caused problems and negative attention - you'll have very hard time getting that piece of paper.

If Human Rights movements had less than 100 participants, Southern States would still segregate and women would not be allowed to vote... Maybe jumping on a pink float is not on the high list of Russian Citizens, mkay? Less than 100 participants in a City of more than 10 million = "no thanks, we have our own plans" maybe? No support = no support... The bigots that beat up the protesters only did so because the latter had no numbers.

USSR was dissolved in a meeting behind closed doors. Demonstrations held very little sway in the decisions, even the most outspoken one in the Eastern Europe came after the fact.

Hooray for the Indians.

But honestly, demonstrations are a sh1t way to deal with the problem... How many demonstrations world wide protested Invasion of Iraq? How many of these demonstrations had hundreds of thousands and close to a million demonstrators? Our Federal Building has demonstration every weekend - largely ignored unless they got live music or face paint parties...



I think you'll find there are more people in this world appauled at the violence directed towards the homo****** people in this parade, rather than showing any sympathy towards the neo-nazis who carried out that violence.

And how exactly I'm going to find that, genius?

First of all, the so-called "neo-nazis" are the somewhat extreme religious conservatives. Let's call things what they are, for the sake of correctness. I can see the same thing happening anywhere else in the world where there is strong conservative or religious support base...

As for the gay activists - there is a right and the wrong way of doing things; they made a gamble and things got ugly. Now they have their martyrdom and the spectacle they wanted - condemnations are flying back and forth, so they got their bloody shirt out of it.

[DaGreatRV]

Conform? If everybody was gay, there would be no continuation of the human species. Again mixing race and a birth defect is lacks any sense.


You clearly didn't get the point I was trying to make.
Just read my previous post a little better.

[Kaapeli]

Conform? If everybody was gay, there would be no continuation of the human species. Again mixing race and a birth defect is lacks any sense.

So what's your problem then? Gays aren't going to reproduce and spread their "bird defect" much are they now?

[CPL Trevoga]

I've often wondered if this perhaps is some divine way of dealing with human over population in a humane way.

Science does not possesses full knowledge on this subject, so we can speculate that may be it is. Sure beats wars.

[Litti]

Look here´s the thing when it comes down to "is it a choice being a gay or not"

When you look at a woman in the street and you are attracted to her, is it your own choice or does it come naturally? You do not decide that you are not attracted to men, it just is so.

And this applies to homo******s as well. They look at a woman and they just are not attracted to her..I doesnt matter if it´s genetics, because the fact is that you cant change the way you think unless you get yourself brainwashed or lobotomized.

So drawing a comparison between blacks´ rights and homo******s` isnt really that far fetched. A lot of people said 50 years ago when black men protested that they deserved to be beaten and even killed.

-"Nig***s are trying to overrun our society"

Or if we go back 70 years we had nazis in Germany who said

-"Jews are trying to destroy our society"

And now we have people who claim that this gay-rights movement is going to corrupt our way of life. Will we ever learn from our past mistakes or do we always have to go through these things again?

No one deserves to get beaten for saying "I AM!". Do you think these gay parades are there just to piss people off and create controversy? You cant change attitudes by staying silent and doing nothing. One century ago women marched and campained for their right to vote in Britain..Many were beaten and at one point jailed activists refused to eat so they were forcefed. But they continued to FIGHT and in the end society recognized them!

Gays have come a long way as well. They were sent to mental institutions in the past but now they have gained rights in many countries. There´s no need to stop now when the wheels are in motion. Same applies to oppressed women in Middle-East.

[Litti]

Besides, many gays have families and children so this "if everyone was guy there would be no humans left" is a bit pointless. Did you know that there´s a strong homo****** presence among male elephants eventhough they - oh my God it´s true - procreate.

My former English teacher was gay and had to end a long marriage, because he couldnt live a lie anymore. Now he´s happy as hell and I´m glad he made the decision to do what was right for him.

[Kroforit]

Denial is the first sign of latency.

That makes no sense.

[Kroforit]

thats a wrong conclusion - there are more homo******s in the west who admit they are then in russia.
There were always homo******s all around the world no matter if they were accepted or not.
I don't think you can choose to be homo****** or not - I don't know what triggers it but most people just notice when they hit puberty that they aren't interested in the other *** or later if they deny it at first.
Homo******ity is also known from animals - and I don't think they are intelligent enough to choose which *** they find more attractive themselves ;)
Its instincts and urges which somehow get messed up.
That said - its still a perversion for me and I don't want to see them show it off on parades and stuff, I don't think they should be allowed to marry and especially important I think they should not be allowed to adopt children.


Any revolution is won by an overwhelming majority. Gays in the west became more open becuase there were enough of them to congregate, protest and claim more rights.
This leads to how they were brought up in the west, as children, and as they develope and reach puberty and start to make decisions. Eventually subconsciously they choose to become gays.

And why shouldnt they adopt children? I think its better for the orphans this way.

[Kroforit]

Haaahahahahaa.... rofl rofl

Quote of the week.

You should stick it into your signature, so lots of people can see it, and more often.

[Aerosoul]

You should stick it into your signature, so lots of people can see it, and more often.
Stick it..stick it....

*mind out of the gutter Aero!*

[Kroforit]

Stick it..stick it....

*mind out of the gutter Aero!*

hmm wtf, are you hitting on me?

[Aerosoul]

Sorry, you left it WIDE OPEN for me.

[Kroforit]

Sorry, you left it WIDE OPEN for me.

I can sense your kind a mile away.

[futurepilot2004]

I can sense your kind a mile away.

roflretardrofl

[Weasel]

I hope you being funny. It's not a disease and God's punishment will come on Judgment day.

Of course I was. Notice my previous posts. :)

[toki]

I can sense your kind a mile away.

http://www.deanguitars.com/userpics/lib3/gaydar.jpg
Fear is the best gaydar!

[Kilgor]

Very good comparison, except same *** attraction is a unnatural, and it's a mistake of nature. It's a birth defect basically.

You are aware that homo****** acts in animals are quite common, its not a defeat and its very natural to them.

[MitchG]

You are aware that homo****** acts in animals are quite common, its not a defeat and its very natural to them.

i'd say thats more because of hormones not because there homo******.

[Albatross]

here is my new site. works well for this

www.idontgiveadamn.org.

email me.

cause i dont give a damn.

andrew@idontgiveadamn.org

[Xaito]

Eventually subconsciously they choose to become gays.

And why shouldnt they adopt children? I think its better for the orphans this way.

after saying that they decide subconciously to become gay you ask me this question? ;)

seriously though I think its problematic for the child who will no doubt have trouble with people who don't like gay people and everybody knows how cruel kids can be to each other.
An other reason is because I think gay relationships are something that one can tolerate as long as it is in their private life and its their decision what they do with eachother but I think its wrong involving other people (like adopted children).
Another reason is that I think a child should only be given into normal families to grow up normally - I think its wrong to give a child to a family with two fathers or two men of whom one takes the mothers role - I still think a child needs a father and mother and if only for its correct psychological development - I'm no psychologist but even I heard something of the oedipus complex - if you didn't read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oedipus_complex

Thats the arguments I have - but I'd lie if I said I wasn't biased - personally I think that its just ****ed up - imo its just wrong and unethically giving children to gay couples.

[Snoshi]

I can sense your kind a mile away.

lol.. I never knew that this thread would turn out this good.

And can you please Mr.Kroforit use your "gay spotting" sense to tell us who else is gay on this forum?

[MrX]

Offensive homoagitation in western countries is only part of bigger thing: aggresive political corretness which include also
-pseudo-humanism,
-general over-tolerantionism for every deviation and crime,
-abortionism,
-euthanasionism,
-racistic "anti-racism",
-xenophobic "anti-xenophobism",
-zionistic "anti-antisemitism",
-antipatriotic "antinationalism"
and especially
-general anti-christianism.
All is against traditional family, culture and religion. All is usefull for chaos, moral degeneration, collapse of national and family relations, and finally, helpfull for depopulation.
It seems as part of someone`s PLAN.

[Litti]

ffensive homoagitation in western countries is only part of bigger thing: aggresive political corretness which include also
-general over-tolerantionism for every deviation and crime,
-abortionism,
-euthanasionism,
-racistic "anti-racism",
-xenophobic "anti-xenophobism",
-zionistic "anti-antisemitism",
-anitipatriotic "antinationalism"
and especially
-general anti-christianism.
All is against traditional family, culture and religion. All is usefull for chaos, moral degeneration, collapse of national and family relations, and finally, helpfull for depopulation.
It seems as part of someone`s PLAN.rofl

Are you for real? This is like how a nazi in 1940´s would have cried :

-I dont undestand why jews and blacks are so intolerant of our views. Why cant people accept that some of us are different, why are they so stubborn?

-Being so aggressive against our policies, like gassing certain ethnic groups, is only useful for chaos and moral degenaration. Our society will be destroyed if we allow these sub-humans to thrust their views upon us, no?

[toki]

http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/4791/tomiq8.jpg

[Lapata]

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/ZJui7tWsSvo&mode=user&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/-LM9XEVf8HE&mode=related&search=

Tipical western media crying.

[MrX]

Are you for real? This is like how a nazi in 1940´s would have cried :

-I dont undestand why jews and blacks are so intolerant of our views. Why cant people accept that some of us are different, why are they so stubborn?

-Being so aggressive against our policies, like gassing certain ethnic groups, is only useful for chaos and moral degenaration. Our society will be destroyed if we allow these sub-humans to thrust their views upon us, no?

You are only "usefull idiot" blinded by a.m. political correctness propaganda.
Tolerance, tolerance, tolerance for everyone, but not for roman catholics! Tolerance for deviants, but no more tolerance for normal families!
In result of this in Scotland now in hospitals, according new instructions, childrens are forced to not say to their parents "mom" and "dad",
because this "may be offensive for other, homo****** parents" !!!!

[CPL Trevoga]

rofl
Are you for real? This is like how a nazi in 1940´s would have cried :
-I dont undestand why jews and blacks are so intolerant of our views. Why cant people accept that some of us are different, why are they so stubborn?
-Being so aggressive against our policies, like gassing certain ethnic groups, is only useful for chaos and moral degenaration. Our society will be destroyed if we allow these sub-humans to thrust their views upon us, no?

I think West is becoming like authoritarian, with limited freedom of speech, sort of like late USSR, where you better not say anything critical of official party line or question wisdom of current leaders.

[Kroforit]

after saying that they decide subconciously to become gay you ask me this question? ;)

seriously though I think its problematic for the child who will no doubt have trouble with people who don't like gay people and everybody knows how cruel kids can be to each other.
An other reason is because I think gay relationships are something that one can tolerate as long as it is in their private life and its their decision what they do with eachother but I think its wrong involving other people (like adopted children).
Another reason is that I think a child should only be given into normal families to grow up normally - I think its wrong to give a child to a family with two fathers or two men of whom one takes the mothers role - I still think a child needs a father and mother and if only for its correct psychological development - I'm no psychologist but even I heard something of the oedipus complex - if you didn't read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oedipus_complex

Thats the arguments I have - but I'd lie if I said I wasn't biased - personally I think that its just ****ed up - imo its just wrong and unethically giving children to gay couples.

I see no connection between how or why people become gay and should they or should they not adopt children.
Surely having 2 parents of the same *** is not proper, but its probably better than having only 1 mother raising a child or no parents at all. I dont think that its a hard challenge to deal with normal society when your parents are gay, and I dont remember ever hearing of gay parents forcing their children to turn gay, I think they whish for their kids to be normal actually.

[Kroforit]

No one answered this, but let me ask it again.

Should homo****** be allowed to shower in public showers? Especially when they blatantly stare at naked men, look over or under shower booths? and do other activities that i can mention.

[Weasel]

No one answered this, but let me ask it again.

Should homo****** be allowed to shower in public showers? Especially when they blatantly stare at naked men, look over or under shower booths? and do other activities that i can mention.

WTF? You are joking, aren´t you?

[Kroforit]

WTF? You are joking, aren´t you?

What should i be joking about? Watching another man shower from under the booth is a regular activity, and that both men should enjoy it?

[Weasel]

What should i be joking about? Watching another man shower from under the booth is a regular activity, and that both men should enjoy it?

How many gay **** movies did you watch to have such fantasies?

[Kaapeli]

No one answered this, but let me ask it again.

Should homo****** be allowed to shower in public showers? Especially when they blatantly stare at naked men, look over or under shower booths? and do other activities that i can mention.

How would you suppose such a ban be monitored?
Should homo******s be marked in some way, like a tattoo for example, and then place guards in public showers that prevent them from entering? Also we could make them wear a star on their clothes and place them in a ghetto away from the public.
All this to prevent homo******s from staring at you because you're so hot that no gay can keep his eyes off you.

[toki]

How would you suppose such a ban be monitored?
Should homo******s be marked in some way, like a tattoo for example, and then place guards in public showers that prevent them from entering? Also we could make them wear a star on their clothes and place them in a ghetto away from the public.
All this to prevent homo******s from staring at you because you're so hot that no gay can keep his eyes off you.

No no, a pink triangle like those guys:
http://www.annefrankguide.com/de-AT/content/V5F.Homosexuelle.jpg

[Litti]

In result of this in Scotland now in hospitals, according new instructions, childrens are forced to not say to their parents "mom" and "dad",
because this "may be offensive for other, homo****** parents" !!!!Where did you read that from. Let me guess, Daily Mail?


Tolerance, tolerance, tolerance for everyone, but not for roman catholics! Tolerance for deviants, but no more tolerance for normal families!How is our society intolerant towards normal families? I havent noticed.


I think West is becoming like authoritarian, with limited freedom of speech, sort of like late USSR, where you better not say anything critical of official party line or question wisdom of current leaders.Yes the European Union is clearly becoming an authoritarian homo regime.

-Stoning jews and making lies about the holocaust in order to create hate not allowed

-Beating homo******s being frowned upon.

Oh the horror, society has collapsed and babylonian attitudes have crushed the influence of church. We are losing our morals.


Should homo****** be allowed to shower in public showers? Especially when they blatantly stare at naked men, look over or under shower booths? and do other activities that i can mention.roflrofl

You must be one of those Mr Olympia candidates if you draw such attention towards yourself constantly. Believe it or not, people are not usually hypnotized 24/7 by the *** they are attracted to so that they cant stop staring.

[AK-Lover]

Offensive homoagitation in western countries is only part of bigger thing: aggresive political corretness which include also
-pseudo-humanism,
-general over-tolerantionism for every deviation and crime,
-abortionism,
-euthanasionism,
-racistic "anti-racism",
-xenophobic "anti-xenophobism",
-zionistic "anti-antisemitism",
-antipatriotic "antinationalism"
and especially
-general anti-christianism.
All is against traditional family, culture and religion. All is usefull for chaos, moral degeneration, collapse of national and family relations, and finally, helpfull for depopulation.
It seems as part of someone`s PLAN.

I agree with Mr.X

[Litti]

Serbia is going down tomorrow by the way.

2-0 Tainio, Hyypiä p-)

[DaGreatRV]

after saying that they decide subconciously to become gay you ask me this question? ;)

seriously though I think its problematic for the child who will no doubt have trouble with people who don't like gay people and everybody knows how cruel kids can be to each other.
An other reason is because I think gay relationships are something that one can tolerate as long as it is in their private life and its their decision what they do with eachother but I think its wrong involving other people (like adopted children).
Another reason is that I think a child should only be given into normal families to grow up normally - I think its wrong to give a child to a family with two fathers or two men of whom one takes the mothers role - I still think a child needs a father and mother and if only for its correct psychological development - I'm no psychologist but even I heard something of the oedipus complex - if you didn't read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oedipus_complex

Thats the arguments I have - but I'd lie if I said I wasn't biased - personally I think that its just ****ed up - imo its just wrong and unethically giving children to gay couples.


I thought numerous researches have been done on the subject and the conclusion I've seen is that it is about the quality of the parent(s), not their gender(identity) or ****** orientation.

But our law isn't perfect either, now only one parent can adopt the child, so if that parent dies, the other has to adopt the child, wich is absurd ofcourse.
But luckily our government is planning to amend the law so that same *** coupels can adopt a child together.

[AK-Lover]

Serbia is going down tomorrow by the way.

2-0 Tainio, Hyypiä p-)

Ja, ja you wish ;)

http://roswell.fortunecity.com/prediction/356/zastava1.jpg

[DaGreatRV]

Offensive homoagitation in western countries is only part of bigger thing: aggresive political corretness which include also
-pseudo-humanism,
-general over-tolerantionism for every deviation and crime,
We are not tolerant against criminals, that is why we have a code of law and a legal system with courts and prisons.

If their deviation does not harm anyone including themselfs, than whats the problem?


-abortionism,Boss of own stomach! Boss of own stomach!


-euthanasionism,Right of self determination.

-racistic "anti-racism",
-xenophobic "anti-xenophobism",
-zionistic "anti-antisemitism",
-antipatriotic "antinationalism"
and especially
-general anti-christianism.If those christians don't inhibate my freedom I'm fine with them.


All is against traditional family, culture and religion. All is usefull for chaos, moral degeneration, collapse of national and family relations, and finally, helpfull for depopulation.
It seems as part of someone`s PLAN.What is so right about forcing people to have a traditional family?
We make our own culture and there is religious freedom, that means the state can't promote, support or have a religion, that would limit your freedom. If old morals are not correct we have to change them, we can't just stick to it just because we've allways done. How can you improve society if you are not willing to concider change?

[MrX]

Serbia is going down tomorrow by the way.

2-0 Tainio, Hyypiä p-)

Dont waste this topic with your sport comments. Serbia is going strong, as Russia, Poland and other Slavic nations. If Slavs will not fight each other still will be hope for this poor world...

[hauptman]

This isn't London, Paris or Rome. This is Moscow bitches.

Stop trying to force liberal values on those who do not want them, it's just another form of Western imperialism.

Then Russia shouldn't have signed the ECHR if they don't agree with Western values. :)

Would you sign a treaty that promotes values that you don't agree on? No? So why would Russia sign the ECHR if they don't agree with the convention. p-)

However, if they sign such conventions they should act according to such conventions, just generally speaking.

[AK-Lover]

I think Western Europe should turn East and look for salvation in the Orthodox Church like Serbia,Greece and Russia have.

[BloodyTalon]

No one answered this, but let me ask it again.

Should homo****** be allowed to shower in public showers? Especially when they blatantly stare at naked men, look over or under shower booths? and do other activities that i can mention.
Yes the state should allow your ****** fantasy to be fulfilled. ;)

[AK-Lover]

http://www.sacred-destinations.com/greece/images/athos/st-pauls-cc-phool-4-XC.jpg

http://www.hep.lu.se/staff/tyapkin/photo/belgrad/hram-st-savy-b.jpg

http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/ppmsc/03900/03973v.jpg

[Kroforit]

How many gay **** movies did you watch to have such fantasies?


Thats reality my friend. Just becuase youve never had to find your self in a situation like that doesnt mean that its not out there. So before you preach tolerance, experience it first.

[Kroforit]

How would you suppose such a ban be monitored?
Should homo******s be marked in some way, like a tattoo for example, and then place guards in public showers that prevent them from entering? Also we could make them wear a star on their clothes and place them in a ghetto away from the public.
All this to prevent homo******s from staring at you because you're so hot that no gay can keep his eyes off you.

I didnt propose a ban, you did. I mentioned this example to show that some things that gays do are intolerable.

[Kaapeli]

I didnt propose a ban, you did. I mentioned this example to show that some things that gays do are intolerable.

Many things that people do are annoying or sometimes even intolerable. Gays are no exception.

[Kroforit]

Many things that people do are annoying or sometimes even intolerable. Gays are no exception.

So you propose to just sit and tolerate the intolerable?

[Kaapeli]

So you propose to just sit and tolerate the intolerable?

I don't consider someone looking at me in the shower as intolerable. Might be a bit annoying though.
If someone was wanking in a public shower I would propably inform the staff of that establishment who would go in and remove the perv.

You could just as well ask should hetero****** people be let in public areas because there are some guys who stare at girls and jack off publicly or run around in the park naked showing themselves to passers by. How is this different from your problem?

[lider_r]

I
If someone was wanking in a public shower I would propably inform the staff of that establishment who would go in and remove the perv.



Even if it were an emergency wank?

[k98_man]

Even if it were an emergency wank?

Haha, yeah just don't look. Let 'em wank! woot

[PsychoMantis]

Thoese gays wanted the Russians to tolerate gays. How about thoese gays tolerate the Russians. To say one group has the right or the authority to impose its belifes on another group that opposes such morals and attitudes is unacceptable. The gays were wrong to do that.

[Aerosoul]

Thoese gays wanted the Russians to tolerate gays. How about thoese gays tolerate the Russians. To say one group has the right or the authority to impose its belifes on another group that opposes such morals and attitudes is unacceptable. The gays were wrong to do that.

Blacks should have stayed at the back of the bus.

[Kaapeli]

Thoese gays wanted the Russians to tolerate gays. How about thoese gays tolerate the Russians. To say one group has the right or the authority to impose its belifes on another group that opposes such morals and attitudes is unacceptable. The gays were wrong to do that.

How did they they impose anything on anyone? They just had a demonstration in the streets. In a democratic free country that should be completely legal and acceptable no matter what they are demonstrating for.

[lider_r]

Thoese gays wanted the Russians to tolerate gays. How about thoese gays tolerate the Russians. To say one group has the right or the authority to impose its belifes on another group that opposes such morals and attitudes is unacceptable. The gays were wrong to do that.


when did the gays start bashing the russians simply for being russians?

As far as i know they have tolerated them, even in the face of abuse and threats.

[PsychoMantis]

The way they present themselves were wrong. They can be as gay as they want but the way they have marches and yelling out slogans and their obscene behavior disgust me.

[Weasel]

The way they present themselves were wrong. They can be as gay as they want but the way they have marches and yelling out slogans and their obscene behavior disgust me.

Welcome to the 21st century.

[AgentX]

What's with all the demonstrations and "pride" parades anyway? I would also not like a band of hetero******s parading with "We love anal!" banners in streets. You have the pooper fantasy? Fine! Keep it in your bedroom.

That said, I don't have anything personal against moderate gays. But queers like these are a different breed altogether.

[Kaapeli]

The way they present themselves were wrong. They can be as gay as they want but the way they have marches and yelling out slogans and their obscene behavior disgust me.

So what bothered you the most about this particular demonstration in Moscow? What obscenities did they shout and do? What did they do wrong?

[Thor]

Welcome to the 21st century.
Keep it private and away from children. There is no place for obscenity in public areas.

[Kaapeli]

What's with all the demonstrations and "pride" parades anyway? I would also not like a band of hetero******s parading with "We love anal!" banners in streets. You have the pooper fantasy? Fine! Keep it in your bedroom.

It's not about flaunting your ******ity. It's about the rights of gay people.
They don't march on the streets to tell you their gay or what they like to do ******ly. Their idea is to demand rights and resist discrimination.

Homophobics seem to have an obsession on ****** practices. When gay walks in the street with a sign that says "gay rights" a homophobic is immediately overwhelmed by the idea of what that person might do in his bedroom "eww why is that guy marching for anal ***!".

[Weasel]

Keep it private and away from children. There is no place for obscenity in public areas.

Obscenity like at the love parade? Haven´t heard about any obscenities during the Moscow demonstration.

[PsychoMantis]

So what bothered you the most about this particular demonstration in Moscow? What obscenities did they shout and do? What did they do wrong?
I was refering all Gay Parade in general. Ever hear "Were here,Were Queer,Get used to it"? That offends me as a Straight man because its trying to force an idea to me that I refuse to accept because of my own personal preference and belifes.

[AgentX]

It's about the rights of gay people.

It's not! And why should they have special "rights", when they have everything else provided by the state to all the humans?

They organize the parade in hope to overcome their self-loathing and self-hatred, which they obviously don't accept in public. They need the demonstrations, because they realize something is abnormal about them - and this feeling makes them want to be "accepted" in the society.

[Thor]

Obscenity like at the love parade? Haven´t heard about any obscenities during the Moscow demonstration.
That's what they were arguing about.

[Kaapeli]

I was refering all Gay Parade in general. Ever hear "Were here,Were Queer,Get used to it"? That offends me as a Straight man because its trying to force an idea to me that I refuse to accept because of my own personal preference and belifes.

Err. Isn't that the whole point of demonstrations? To demand, support or resist something and let other people know what you think about stuff?

You can refuse to accept whatever people are demonstrating for but that doesn't mean they don't have the right to do so.
Would you prefer that demonstrations about issues you don't agree with or are offended by should be banned?


It's not! And why should they have special "rights", when they have everything else provided by the state to all the humans?

Discrimination isn't a "special right" and people are right to protest against it.

[Thor]

Err. Isn't that the whole point of demonstrations? To demand, support or resist something and let other people know what you think about stuff?
So everyone has the right to protest anywhere?

[AgentX]

Discrimination isn't a "special right" and people are right to protest against it.
Discrimination is a little price they pay for being different.

[Kaapeli]

So everyone has the right to protest anywhere?

Basicly yes. That's called freedom of speech. And going out in the streets and saying what you want to say is having that freedom.


Discrimination is a little price they pay for being different.

You shouldn't have to pay anything for being different. Because we are all different but still we should be treated equally.

[AgentX]

You shouldn't have to pay anything for being different. Because we are all different but still we should be treated equally.
Yes, we're all different and we all pay in one way or another for being ourselves. If 21st century is about normalizing everything consensual and accepting practices not based on traditional ethical and moral values - we're treading on thin ice, and should expect a complete social breakdown.

What if, one fine day, a family of four adults decides that nothing is wrong with consensual incest? We'll, then, have a family where everyone sleeps with everyone else. Where exactly do you draw the line of acceptable norms, and why should consensual-X be considered lowly to consensual-Y?

Man is blessed with the power of imagination, that extends beyond our wildest physical capabilities. If we're to introduce fantasies into our culture, do we have the ability to contain them as well?

[lider_r]

It's not! And why should they have special "rights", when they have everything else provided by the state to all the humans?


They dont want special rights, they want equal rights. And they quite obviously dont hav everything else provided to them by the state that everyone else gets to enjoy, like the right to protest without being beaten up.


Discrimination is a little price they pay for being different.

Discrimination is a price they pay for having to share a planet with nazis like you.

[Mr.K]

There is going to be a "straight" parade and concert in Moscow on june 6th, bands, chicks and all the good stuff.