Power Armor

[MichaelF]

Think it will pan out, in the near term (say, <2020)?

DARPA has an ongoing proof-of-concept program:
http://www.darpa.mil/dso/thrust/matdev/ehpa.htm

The Japanese (and UCBerkely, IIRC) have several civilian prototypes (HAL, most importantly) currently in operation.

http://www.plyojump.com/images/exoskeletons/hal_2005.jpg

Me? I'm guessing it will have a lot of significant hurdles to overcome, beyond just power-density (the current idea is a small ICE powerpack, burning diesel or propane). Agility (no sense being resistant to 7.62mm, if you can't duck 12.7mm or RPGs...), endurance before required PMCS (if each hr of noncombat use means 5hrs of hangar time....that isn't so good), and most of all, a percieved requirement (Logdogs and Engineers will likely see these systems before Infantrymen, as the heavy lifting capability might increase such unit's efficiency).

One item I've not seen addressed: Grip strength. A lot of the programs tout increased lifting ability, but that is generate by the enhanced joint mechanics (knees, hips and elbows), not the hands. I've not heard of any attempt to create a "power glove" to match the enhanced lift capability with enhanced ability to manually manipulate that weight.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/7e/US_Army_powered_armor.jpg/380px-US_Army_powered_armor.jpg

http://www.briarsarmor.com/images/halo/steve_armor_01.jpg

http://www.plyojump.com/images/exoskeletons/iwalk_show.jpg

[Chulo]

i like the helmet
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/8749/moviebg2e06f5st2.jpg

[MichaelF]

i like the helmet

Be a good replacement for the Marines, on Embassy and White House duty...

POTUS: And now, Mr Ambassador, one of my armored minions will strangle a buffalo to death in front of you. What were you saying about that oil dispute?

Ambassador:......

[muttbutt]

Diesel powerpack, a little cumbersome Michael?, I was reading a while back on a Japanese company had developed paper thin battery technolgy, might be a way to go.

[muttbutt]

or a fuel cell I guess.

[clean]

One of the problems coming out of Iraq is the fact that our troops there, once they're kitted up, look less human and more machine-like. Thereby creating a disconnect with Joe and Jane Iraqi. I think these battle dress systems really address those problems. Who wouldn't want to hug one of these guys?

[MichaelF]

Diesel powerpack, a little cumbersome Michael?, I was reading a while back on a Japanese company had developed paper thin battery technolgy, might be a way to go.

I think it's a (set of?) microturbine(s) that is currently being considered. DARPA seems to think it will be within an acceptable mass range.

[muttbutt]

One of the problems coming out of Iraq is the fact that our troops there, once they're kitted up, look less human and more machine-like. Thereby creating a disconnect with Joe and Jane Iraqi. I think these battle dress systems really address those problems. Who wouldn't want to hug one of these guys?maybe thats one of the problems of this war, are all or most wars going to be like this a counter insurgency or will there be a general war in the future where soldiers (and Marines, always capitalized) need suits like this....difficult to tell, you don't want to be caught fighting the last war.

[muttbutt]

I think it's a (set of?) microturbine(s) that is currently being considered. DARPA seems to think it will be within an acceptable mass range.
Hmm, have to read up on that thanks Mike.

[MichaelF]

One of the problems coming out of Iraq is the fact that our troops there, once they're kitted up, look less human and more machine-like. Thereby creating a disconnect with Joe and Jane Iraqi. I think these battle dress systems really address those problems. Who wouldn't want to hug one of these guys?

Likely such systems would not be for foot patrols and presence activities, but for shock actions and raids. IOW, a new Infantry-type (such as Mech, Abn, AA, Ranger, Stryker, etc) and not simply a new general-issue 11B item.

[Dodge]

zomg fallout

[helomech]

http://www.briarsarmor.com/images/halo/steve_armor_01.jpg

Looks like a f_ucking Power Ranger!Fag Alert!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BloodyTalon]

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/5926/invasionqg6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://www.myconfinedspace.com/watermark.php?src=wp-content/uploads/2006/09/warhammer1.jpg
It's only a matter of time now...

[ZoneOne]

I'm still waiting to pilot one of these

http://www.wizkidsgames.com/mechwarrior/images/WallPaper/Madcat%201024x768.jpg

[Rictor]

http://www.briarsarmor.com/images/halo/steve_armor_01.jpg

Looks like a f_ucking Power Ranger!Fag Alert!!!!!!!!!!!!

You ever played Halo, man? I say props to him, the suit is a dead replica.

[Anthony91]

You ever played Halo, man? I say props to him, the suit is a dead replica.

Umm...no it's not. The helmets too big, the Sniper Rifle is f-ed up, and the person looks like a 10 year old.

[MichaelF]

Umm...no it's not. The helmets too big, the Sniper Rifle is f-ed up, and the person looks like a 10 year old.

Well, the original model is a guy who's 2m tall (6'6") in his socks (and a digital cartoon). Any replica armor for a dude who's 1.7m (5'8") and normally-proportioned is going to look kind of scrunched in comparison.

Still, an A- for effort. A+ if he'd had the foresight to convince his parents to get him HGH treatments.

[D-gin]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/7e/US_Army_powered_armor.jpg/380px-US_Army_powered_armor.jpg


http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/6986/battlefield2142ts2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Anyone else see a resemblance?

[Chulo]

OMG.. get the power up!

[MichaelF]

The HAL-5 series (japanese power-assist exoskeleton, pictured in first post) comes in at ~$15K.

So the fundamental -engineering- is not cost-intensive. Likely, though, the military-specific add-ons will cause the sticker price to go asymptotic. Mobility-enhancers (increases stride length and push-power, making a normal-effort walk several times faster), armor, cooling, NBC, comms, denser powerpack, etc.

Even given all that, I'd say a per-unit pricetag should be no greater than $100K, in 2007 dollars.

[MichaelF]

Current UCBerekly-Army prototype:

BLEEX: http://www.philoneist.com/50226711/images/News02-00.jpg

http://bleex.me.berkeley.edu/bleex.htm

[MichaelF]

exoskeletons will be delivered for Army testing in 2008. After 14 companies and universities initially (circa 2001) came up with different designs, they have selected the firm that will build the beast: Sarcos of Salt Lake City in Utah, US.

Sarcos has come up with a system that uses just one engine instead of lots of them. The engine, and a tank containing a 24-hour supply of fuel, will be slung “beneath your rear end”, says Main. The engine (a turbine, two-stroke or four stroke - they haven’t decided yet) will then drive hydraulic fluid via high pressure lines to servo valves on each joint, amplifying the force used to move each limb when the wearer’s motion is sensed.

Main tried it out himself recently. “It makes you feel really, really strong. You get the sensation that you have a lot of strength. I sort of felt like The Hulk and I’m a skinny guy. I wore a 100-pound weight on my back and it felt I was carrying nothing like that amount,” he says. And he was only wearing the lower body - the legs and back support section.

Once the legs are mated to the powered arms, the full "powerloader" exoskeleton will be even stronger. “The upper body portion has arms that can hold a 40-pound weight at arms length for three minutes,” Main says.



http://www.newscientist.com/blog/technology/2006/10/exoskeleton-update.html

[PsychoMantis]

http://fichtenfoo.com/v-web/gallery/albums/FF-GelgoogNT/FichtenFoo_GelgoogNT_01.jpg

http://fichtenfoo.com/v-web/gallery/albums/album05/FichtenFoo_MCPGZakuFinal_03.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/fichtenfoo/YMS-18-02s.jpg

http://www.mtomczek.com/images/gundam/kampfer17.jpg

http://fichtenfoo.com/v-web/gallery/albums/FF-TheBriegel/FichtenFoo_Briegel_01.jpg

http://www.dannychoo.com/images/photo/1959.jpg

ZEON FTW!!

[Seiran]

http://fichtenfoo.com/v-web/gallery/albums/FF-GelgoogNT/FichtenFoo_GelgoogNT_01.jpg

http://fichtenfoo.com/v-web/gallery/albums/album05/FichtenFoo_MCPGZakuFinal_03.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/fichtenfoo/YMS-18-02s.jpg

http://www.mtomczek.com/images/gundam/kampfer17.jpg

http://fichtenfoo.com/v-web/gallery/albums/FF-TheBriegel/FichtenFoo_Briegel_01.jpg

http://www.dannychoo.com/images/photo/1959.jpg

ZEON FTW!!

Damn right! MS-07B3 Custom ftw.

[PsychoMantis]

Damn right! MS-07B3 Custom ftw.
Gouf is a Close Second to the Kampfer.

[MichaelF]

Fools.


Everyone knows the clear distinction between Power Armor and Mecha.

Wear one. Pilot the other.

You've just been schooled.

[helomech]

You ever played Halo, man? I say props to him, the suit is a dead replica.

I don't play Halo,don't have the time but,if I did I'm sure I'd be playing it for awhile everyday!But that costume is definitely FAG material!And I don't mean the Film Actors' Guild...

[BloodyTalon]

http://fichtenfoo.com/v-web/gallery/albums/FF-GelgoogNT/FichtenFoo_GelgoogNT_01.jpg

http://fichtenfoo.com/v-web/gallery/albums/album05/FichtenFoo_MCPGZakuFinal_03.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/fichtenfoo/YMS-18-02s.jpg

http://www.mtomczek.com/images/gundam/kampfer17.jpg

http://fichtenfoo.com/v-web/gallery/albums/FF-TheBriegel/FichtenFoo_Briegel_01.jpg

http://www.dannychoo.com/images/photo/1959.jpg

ZEON FTW!!
Mechas are badass looking, but they would be comically useless in real life (too big of a target).

[Van Gogh]

this one is from flashpoint. i hope this goes through.

[muttbutt]

Here's a question, why would a power suit/armour have to rigedly stick to the average sized human, just for a bit of comparison, the elemental armour from battletech (geek alert!) is bigger then a normal person at about 9 feet tall, but it functions like shock infantry and is pretty heavily armed, thats one of the things a power suit would be useful for I think, instaed of trying to squeeze everything to man size, don't.

[muttbutt]

Guys enough with the mech's thats not what we're talking about.

[Seiran]

Guys enough with the mech's thats not what we're talking about.

Maybe not, but it's related to the subject matter, as you know if they could make power suits, they would eventually make mechs to replace things like tanks, artillery, etc etc.

And to answer your other question - To build big, it's best to start small. If they make the man sized suits, and can work out all the bugs and such, then they can start going bigger and bigger working on those same principles.

[BloodyTalon]

Maybe not, but it's related to the subject matter, as you know if they could make power suits, they would eventually make mechs to replace things like tanks, artillery, etc etc.

And to answer your other question - To build big, it's best to start small. If they make the man sized suits, and can work out all the bugs and such, then they can start going bigger and bigger working on those same principles.
Mechs are pure fantasy that only work when fighting other mechs. First of all, we have enough difficulty getting a bipedal robot the size of a child to walk as sufficiently as a human, imagine trying to get a 4+ story mech to do the same thing effectively. Second is that a mech would ultimately end up as a bullet/missile sponge, as any conventional enemy (aircraft, tanks, soldiers with AT weaponry, etc.) could fire at it and be assured that the mech would be hit and damaged. So no, we're not gonna see Gundams in the future.

Human-sized powered armor, on the other hand, is plausible and useful in battle because they are an agumentation of what a soldier can already do. All you need is an exoskeleton to build around and you have your very own Master Chief.

[muttbutt]

Maybe not, but it's related to the subject matter, as you know if they could make power suits, they would eventually make mechs to replace things like tanks, artillery, etc etc.

And to answer your other question - To build big, it's best to start small. If they make the man sized suits, and can work out all the bugs and such, then they can start going bigger and bigger working on those same principles.
It's related, but we're just working on the power armour first, the 80 foot bladewinds can waitp-)

maybe, but to try and fix everything into the smallest package posssible right at the start seems to be an awkward way to go, why not go a little bigger then worry about Miniaturization

[PsychoMantis]

Mechas are badass looking, but they would be comically useless in real life (too big of a target).
I dont think so. Look at thoese Gundams,Theyre like 60-70 ft scale size to people. I think they would make excellent replacement for Tanks and Artillery.

[BloodyTalon]

I dont think so. Look at thoese Gundams,Theyre like 60-70 ft scale size to people. I think they would make excellent replacement for Tanks and Artillery.
See my other post why not.

[Ritual]

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2006/04/04/hal4x_wideweb__470x420,0.jpghttp://member.rpg.hu/teron/images/gits-mecha-1.jpg
http://member.rpg.hu/teron/images/gits-mecha-2.jpg

The powered exoskeleton even seems too big :-(.

[PsychoMantis]

See my other post why not.
Macross fan,eh?

[BloodyTalon]

Macross fan,eh?
That and Ghost in the Shell.

[muttbutt]

I dont think so. Look at thoese Gundams,Theyre like 60-70 ft scale size to people. I think they would make excellent replacement for Tanks and Artillery.
Not really, you see a 60 foot mech walking down the street, he's going to attract all kinds of fires, fast air, arty, anti armour, unless the thing has some sort of super battle ship armour it's dead....cool yes, practical no I'm afraid

[PsychoMantis]

That and Ghost in the Shell.
Honestly,I think ur right to a certain extent about Mechas being sorta pointless. I mean when I thought about a Tomahawk Missle or soemthing like that,It would suck being the Pilot. I think Macross are more realistic in tha thteir faster and more agile.
http://www.mahq.net/mecha/macross/plus/yf-19-battroid.jpg
http://www.mahq.net/mecha/macross/plus/yf-19-fighter.jpg

Landmates are pretty cool too.

http://www.atollduweb.net/Pagode/Galerie/Masamune2G.jpg
http://www.dailythemes.com/walls/anime/art_masamune_shirow/art_masamune_shirow_013.jpg?46

http://www.atollduweb.net/Pagode/Galerie/Masamune1G.jpg


Fuchikoma would be pretty awesome in action.

http://www.beyondhollywood.com/moviestills/stills/ghost-in-the-shell/ghost-in-the-shell-24.jpg

http://www.beyondhollywood.com/moviestills/stills/ghost-in-the-shell/ghost-in-the-shell-26.jpg
Masumune Shirow is amazing.

[MichaelF]

Here's a question, why would a power suit/armour have to rigedly stick to the average sized human, just for a bit of comparison, the elemental armour from battletech (geek alert!) is bigger then a normal person at about 9 feet tall, but it functions like shock infantry and is pretty heavily armed, thats one of the things a power suit would be useful for I think, instaed of trying to squeeze everything to man size, don't.

The Square-Cube Law, among other concerns.

The bigger it gets, the heavier it gets (and -not- in a 1:1 ratio), the stronger its structural material must be (and most of the currently available and feasible "stronger" materials are -denser-, adding even more mass) and the more power it takes to move it.

Currently, you go more than slightly larger than a human frame and you don't have the energy density (battery or engine) needed to match the increase. We're having a fun time just powering a ~2m suit for any reasonable length of time.

Lastly, control systems. A man-sized suit can follow natural biomechanical motions of the wearer. Larger systems need an entirely artificial system of control (DNI, HOTAS, pedals, XBOX controller, whatever), which no one has really come up with yet.

A more distant, yet real, concern is that a larger (say, 3-4m) system would attract direct fire from weapons it cannot resist. No forseeable power armor could defeat a direct RPG strike, or even 12.7mm fire. You have to stay in the size range that can resist small arms (5.56-7.62mm.....maybe) and small blast/frag effects from near misses, but is still small and nimble enough to take cover from heavier weapons.

[MichaelF]

Landmates are on the near edge of realistic (ICE powerplant, mimics wearers motions, etc). Except for the flying ones.

Might have something to do with Shirow being an engineering student at first.

[muttbutt]

Makes sense, thanks for clearing that up for me.

[BugHunt]

Actually much as i hate all that cartoon sh!t there IS a point in going bigger....

Active defense systems - there on the cusp of being manadatory in tanks and AFV's...

If trophy weighs 300kg and can defeat a RPG....what might a 4th/5th generation of something like Trophy weigh and be able to defeat?

There are bigger systems now which proport to being able to defeat mortars and artillery....


Still you got to get round the question why are you sticking all this stuff into a TALL human like figure....extra tall for extra field of view (afterall your active defense should stop most attacks), defeating road mines by using legs etcetc.... still seems a little weak reasonwise to make things tall and human like. Though IF it was possible engineering wise biped should = extra mobility.

The damn thing would prolly be able to cloak to visible light as well...

LOL i should write sci-fi..... :D




Still havent worked around the propullsion and structural engineering problems but who knows in 30-40-50 years time....

[muttbutt]

I was just reading up on power sources when I came across the MIT designed millimeter turbine engine, funded by the DOD, it's going to be up and running in a few months, and one of the applications they invision is for power suits.....brave new world

[MichaelF]

I was just reading up on power sources when I came across the MIT designed millimeter turbine engine, funded by the DOD, it's going to be up and running in a few months, and one of the applications they invision is for power suits.....brave new world

I think those are initially being looked at as the powerpack for the FFW armor/electronics suite. Not Powered (no mechanical assist), but with climate control, comms and passively-active soft armor. Basically, a smartsuit (LAND WARRIOR, but better, and looks like Stormtrooper armor).

If they pan out (and scale up well), likely they will be the powerpack for the Exoskeleton.

[LaoSexMachine]

Stops plasma rifles and needle guns.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/eh1656/yes.jpg

[Kitten Master]

http://www.myconfinedspace.com/watermark.php?src=wp-content/uploads/2006/09/warhammer1.jpg
It's only a matter of time now...


whoA where is this from.. hehe can't wait for the military to turn warcraft.. forget medievil, warcraft military is the future.

[Kitten Master]

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2006/04/04/hal4x_wideweb__470x420,0.jpghttp://member.rpg.hu/teron/images/gits-mecha-1.jpg
http://member.rpg.hu/teron/images/gits-mecha-2.jpg

The powered exoskeleton even seems too big :-(.


Honestly,I think ur right to a certain extent about Mechas being sorta pointless. I mean when I thought about a Tomahawk Missle or soemthing like that,It would suck being the Pilot. I think Macross are more realistic in tha thteir faster and more agile.
http://www.mahq.net/mecha/macross/plus/yf-19-battroid.jpg
http://www.mahq.net/mecha/macross/plus/yf-19-fighter.jpg

Landmates are pretty cool too.

http://www.atollduweb.net/Pagode/Galerie/Masamune2G.jpg
http://www.dailythemes.com/walls/anime/art_masamune_shirow/art_masamune_shirow_013.jpg?46

http://www.atollduweb.net/Pagode/Galerie/Masamune1G.jpg


Fuchikoma would be pretty awesome in action.

http://www.beyondhollywood.com/moviestills/stills/ghost-in-the-shell/ghost-in-the-shell-24.jpg

http://www.beyondhollywood.com/moviestills/stills/ghost-in-the-shell/ghost-in-the-shell-26.jpg
Masumune Shirow is amazing.









Have has anyone notice that Japanese animation has extensive use of Excoselecton technology thingy/mecha stuff..

mate, if there making all these concept ideas through anime and now they have made a working prototype, I don't think FCS will be a match for this...

wait till neon genesis evagalion style humaniod Tanks come along..

K.O american forces.



p.s -A for the Hentai , a bit to excessive for a military forum. but hey,, bring in a new market

[Seiran]

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2006/04/04/hal4x_wideweb__470x420,0.jpg


He's got the right idea. I'd give that girl a lift too. Just in a different way.

[Kitten Master]

He's got the right idea. I'd give that girl a lift too. Just in a different way.


what kind of engine does it use

electric motors??

[kongman]

whoA where is this from.. hehe can't wait for the military to turn warcraft.. forget medievil, warcraft military is the future.


that pic is from the warhammer 40 k universe...

[kongman]

any1 seen the new starscaft 2 intro , thats what power armour should be like small but powerfull........

[Van Gogh]

a mech might have advantages over a soldier in terms of sniper control or mine field threats. particularly in urban areas where the climbing ability of two legs would have an advantage over a tank.

[Kitten Master]

a mech might have advantages over a soldier in terms of sniper control or mine field threats. particularly in urban areas where the climbing ability of two legs would have an advantage over a tank.

I second that idea, however fighing in urban landscapes, one must take account the size of the mech. If it a 30 meter high Humanoid tank, then urban fighting will be totally different, instead of climbing , the biulding would be more like places to take cover, think speedball.

but it would be a long time before we seen neon gensis eva's coming this way, only in anime, is this a reality

[MichaelF]

If it a 30 meter high Humanoid tank,

Square-Cube Law, folks.

We won't have 30m tall mecha, for the same reason we don't have 30m long tanks. Real quick (before you get halfway to 30m), you run into the fact that your machine is now too heavy to move and generates too much ground pressure.

Also, no known material (natural or synthetic, even diamondoids have their limits) could support such a mass at the required angles created by movement. Never mind the armor.

[MichaelF]

The discussion is on exoskeletons (Power Armor).

Mecha deserve their own thread.

[Rakki]

Apart from the whole problem of ground pressure (how mobile will a 60 ton thing be if it sinks to its arse in normal terrain every time it takes a step?), kinda hard to fight inside a building if you can't even squeeze through the doorway hmm? You'll end up having tanks/mechas being directed down kill zones while infantry with AT missiles run and hide in the alley ways...

The point of power armor is to protect infantry..... if you need big city-busting firepower, we already have tanks that can do that.

[MichaelF]

The point of power armor is to protect infantry..... .

With the DARPA/Army program, the goal is to enhance strength and mobility (translation: more gear, faster tactical movement and, potentially, bigger weapons). Protection is secondary, and more of a function of "well, if it can carry heavier loads, might as well tack on some armor".

It's unlikely to be a huge jump in protection. The stuff they are talking about might just stop 5.56mm Ball and minor blast/frag (near miss from RPGs, etc). "Stop" might probably not equate to "shrug off". Think "main strike area on Interceptor"-resistance, but all over, instead of just chest and back. Still rocks, but it's not like we're going to be wading through AK volleys...

This project is all about augmenting of biomechanical properties (chiefly: lift/carry capacity and running). The next generation project might turn its attention to altering the Soldier vs. Small Arms equation.

[Ratamacue]

With the DARPA/Army program, the goal is to enhance strength and mobility (translation: more gear, faster tactical movement and, potentially, bigger weapons). Protection is secondary, and more of a function of "well, if it can carry heavier loads, might as well tack on some armor".

It's unlikely to be a huge jump in protection. The stuff they are talking about might just stop 5.56mm Ball and minor blast/frag (near miss from RPGs, etc). "Stop" might probably not equate to "shrug off". Think "main strike area on Interceptor"-resistance, but all over, instead of just chest and back. Still rocks, but it's not like we're going to be wading through AK volleys...If you zoom in on this (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7e/US_Army_powered_armor.jpg) picture, you can see the different protection levels they envision for various exoskeletons. Specifically:

Light Armor PCV - "Improved" ballistic protection.
Medium Armor PCV - Level IV protection for the torso, level III protection for extremities.
Heavy Armor PCV - Complete level IV protection.

Level III is the specification that Interceptor strike plates are made to, and will stop up to 7.62 NATO FMJ rounds at 2750fps. Level IV will stop .30-06 AP rounds at up to 2850fps. So as ridiculous as it sounds, with the heavy PCV as it's envisioned (and even possibly the medium PCV), one could wade through a volley of AK rounds. Of course, whether the system develops as such is something else entirely, but I don't think it's fair to say that personal protection is a low priority in the powered exoskeleton concept.

[Kitten Master]

The discussion is on exoskeletons (Power Armor).

Mecha deserve their own thread.


yeah i guess thats true, this tread is about personal infantry armourments, not tanks. but it the futre, they said that they will never be flying machines, now we have aircraft that can go past the speed of sound...


besides the point, back to enchancing infantry,
What about cybeornetic implants, think dark angel, imagine a whole army of hotties,... jokes

[MichaelF]

If you zoom in on this (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7e/US_Army_powered_armor.jpg) picture, you can see the different protection levels they envision for various exoskeletons. Specifically:

Light Armor PCV - "Improved" ballistic protection.
Medium Armor PCV - Level IV protection for the torso, level III protection for extremities.
Heavy Armor PCV - Complete level IV protection.

Level III is the specification that Interceptor strike plates are made to, and will stop up to 7.62 NATO FMJ rounds at 2750fps. Level IV will stop .30-06 AP rounds at up to 2850fps. So as ridiculous as it sounds, with the heavy PCV as it's envisioned (and even possibly the medium PCV), one could wade through a volley of AK rounds. Of course, whether the system develops as such is something else entirely, but I don't think it's fair to say that personal protection is a low priority in the powered exoskeleton concept.

I never said it was a low priority. Just that it wasn't the primary goal, with this program. So far (we're early enough in the program that it could change scope). Currently, the (main) program goals are lifting/carrying capacity, mobility and survivability (protection). Along with driving the development of a suitable powerpack.

I'd heard about the Light and Medium goals (Level IV/III), but not about the Heavy (all over Level IV).

Even with that, there'll be no wading through volleys. Just because Level IV will -stop- a round, doesn't mean you are going to want to expose yourself. Kinetic transfer is a bitch. My vest stopped an AK round last year. I was barely capable of walking, for a few minutes.

However, if the "Heavy" iteration has the armor mounted on a rigid frame (thereby forcing the suit, not the wearer, to absorb the KE), and does not deform into the occupant, then anything that does not penetrate will have little/no effect on the wearer. So then, yes, you could pretty much wade through light small arms fire (repeated impacts from projectiles at the upper-end of the Class IV range will degrade the armor's integrity, so it's not a panacea).

BTW, Notice the dummy in the picture is armed with a repainted OCSW?

[MichaelF]

Of course, we're talking about a system that might see it's first full-concept prototypes in ~2015.

By that time we could be talking about an entirely new generation of materials. Rigid carbon nanotube/wire armor that can stop 12.7mm, stuff like that.

Kevlar is already being replaced by M5 fiber, in some of the higher concept stuff for FFW. Ferro-fluid smart material is replacing the ceramic strikeplates in that same program (result, larger strike surfaces, weighing less).

[MichaelF]

The PEO-Soldier Exoskeleton Transition Program will employ novel mechanisms, information systems, and power management hardwareand software to ultimately produce a wearable machine that will serve as an intuitively operated load carriage system for individuals. The goal of the program is to enable an individual soldier to lift and carry 150 pounds while feeling only a small part of the load, work for long periods of time, and to travel in difficult conditions. This ability for a single soldier to carry heavy loads could be leveraged in applications ranging frommoving boxes of ammunition or supplies to enabling the carriage of significantly greater body armor than is presently possible. The Army envisions the Personal Combat Vehicle (PCV) to be a highly armored anthropomorphic vehicle for the individual soldier that can move through rough and urban terrain without difficultly while providing the individual soldier with an unprecedented amount of ballistic protection. This program has transitioned from PE 0602715E, MBT-01, where the underlying smart materials and mechanism development was funded.
http://www.dtic.mil/descriptivesum/Y2007/DARPA/0603764E.pdf

Hmmm...

Might be farther along than was thought (which still isn't that far).

[MichaelF]

Bump.

Anyone got new info?

[muttbutt]

Lockheed Martin has come up with a robotic exoskeleton to help soldiers better shoulder the crushing weight they carry in equipment. The Human Universal Load Carrier (HULC) was built under an exclusive licensing agreement with Berkeley Bionics, a company that specializes in exoskeleton technology.

http://sitelife.aviationweek.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/3/6/2387de22-f7be-45e5-9649-013bba98fce3.Large.jpg

According to Lockheed, the HULC will help soldiers carry up to 200 pounds "with minimal effort." It works by transferring weight from heavy loads to the ground via the battery-powered, titanium legs of the lower-body exoskeleton. An onboard micro-computer ensures the exoskeleton moves in concert with the soldier. The HULC's un-tethered hydraulic-powered anthropomorphic exoskeleton allows soldiers to perform a range of motions--deep squats, crawls and upper-body lifting--all with minor exertion, according to Lockheed.


video..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqQloLvpWFA

[captainahab]

wow this is really cool. could imagine this would help patrols in theatres like afghanistan to carry their load(food,guns,armor,ammunitions,water etc...) a lot easier. Question for me is: how long does the battery last? all in all it doens't seem like a bad concept

[Tribunius]

Check out the raytheon SARCOS

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/8634/rtn08exo10.th.jpg (http://img3.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rtn08exo10.jpg)

http://www.raytheon.com/newsroom/technology/rtn08_exoskeleton/index.html

[DasBoost]

When I first read this, I immediately thought of Space Marines. woot

[muttbutt]

Hercules the Cobot. The What? (http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&newspaperUserId=27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7&plckPostId=Blog%3a27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3a5caa3244-8a89-4945-9628-32b9d2bf864d&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest)

Hercules is an electric collaborative robot (or “cobot”) designed to help a soldier carry and manipulate loads up to 100kg. The second prototype on show here can only carry 40kg and was developed in a partnership between Rb3d, specialized in mechatronics, a term introduced by a Japanese engineer in 1969 which is the contraction of “mechanics” and “electronics”; the CEA List, a laboratory of applied research on software-intensive technologies and ESME Sudria, a Paris-based advanced innovation engineering school. The program is financed by the DGA French procurement agency.
Hercules consists of mechanical, software and electronic “legs” and a “back” structure which allow the wearer to bear loads effortlessly. In the future the system will also include “fore-arms” to help manipulate heavy loads. The wearer can walk 20km carrying a load with these “legs” at a speed of 4 km/h, slightly slower than the 5 km/h average walking speed of a healthy adult carrying nothing.
Hercules detects and accompanies the wearer's movements. During the show Hercules is being demonstrated by a young woman, an engineer at DGA, who put it on to show me today. Unfortunately I didn't have my camera but I'll try and take some pictures tomorrow and post them for you. She wouldn't exactly go unnoticed in a crowd!


162737

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&newspaperUserId=27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7&plckPostId=Blog%3a27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3a5caa3244-8a89-4945-9628-32b9d2bf864d&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest