Uproar over Abuse of Iraqis - Media Racist?

[ogukuo72]

Don't get me wrong, I think the abuse of the Iraqi prisoners by American troops is wrong.

But at the same time, the abuse that the prisoners were subjected to were mild by comparison to what happened in Iraqi prisons under Saddam Hussein, as well as the kind of abuse and torture by many Middle Eastern and Asian regimes. Remember the Khmer Rouge? Remember what Saddam Hussein did? Yet, there is no similar uproar over these abuses. In fact, the American media hardly seemed interested.

I believe that this is a form of racism. The American media seems to expect no better from Middle Eastern and Asian countries - we are expected to be sadists and that our culture allow us to torture our own people. So, when these things happen ... *yawn* ...

On the other hand, they expect better of American troops, that they have a higher moral standard, that they belong to a superior moral culture that is not capable of doing something like this. So when these things happen ... it's the story of the year!

[Kilgor]

each day, I bet prison abuses far worse are carried out in draconian countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran.

But hey.. see no evil, hear no evil.

[Macs.]

So what ?

When someone kills a child, it is legitim for you to kill a child ? :roll:

[Jack Mehoff]

The media is just stupid like that. Yesterday, a Utah highway patrolman beat the **** out of a drunk motorist. It was cool :D

[Kilgor]

Yeah.. how many people in normal jails get the **** beaten out of them ?

quite alot id say

[the_spec]

What kind of thinking gap is it that some of you guys have, that makes you think these tortures and abuses are somehow ok only because there is/was far worse stuff going on all around the world?
The USA propagates itself as being morally and ethically superior, so if they don't act like it, of course that's a big story. You can't say "he's a dangerous dictator who kills and tortures his own people, we must bring him down" and then start torturing yourself.

On the other hand, they expect better of American troops, that they have a higher moral standard, that they belong to a superior moral culture that is not capable of doing something like this. So when these things happen ... it's the story of the year!
So what you basically trying to tell us is that american soldiers don't have a higher moral standard and that we shouldn't expect any better of them than from saddams soldiers. That's really great, I bet you thought long and hard before posting. :roll:

[vikingblade]

The USA is morally and ethically superior. hence, the prisoners were not tortured and killed. just humiliated a bit. not acceptable, but lets get real. very small percentage of prisoners are reported as being mistreated. when you have a huge amount of soldiers and prisoners...**** is gonna happen.

how many times have we heard that islam is not responsible for what islamic extremist terrorists do... how many times have we been told that it is just a small percentage of muslims who are violent towards the west. do not blame the whole for the actions of the few...huh...

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THE MEDIA AND THE WORLD IS DOING WITH THIS....TAKING THE ACTIONS OF A FEW STUPID RESERVISTS AS A CONDEMNATION OF THE ENTIRE US MILITARY.

SO, LETS CUT THE CRAP. ITS PROPAGANDA.

[vikingblade]

One more thing.... these prisoners, why were they in prison in the first place???? jaywalking? drunk driving? smoking pot? they are hardass radicals with an ak47 in their hands but make em get naked...oh nooo. these guys are not angels guys. id bet everything i own that if the situations were reversed, things would look alot worse. AGAIN...not an excuse for the aledged abuses, but this is not disney world.

[Ichhabe]

Well, there are 25 deaths in Iragi and Afghani camps that are under investigation. All these deaths has occured since december 2003.

[vikingblade]

ok... a perfect world would be great...ideal. unfortunately it doesnt exist. if we are talking treatment of criminal terrorist prisoners...

on one hand, we have the extreme perfect american ideal of warm, cozy cells, good food and kind treatment. now on the opposite extreme treatment we have the same prison run not to long ago by the man we came to get rid of.... we are talking oh... using hammers to break bones, ripping out fingernails, amputating limbs with a chain saw, crucifixion, throwing live victims in acid baths and ovens, cutting loose wild dogs to attack victims, raping women in the presence of their children and husbands, cutting off a ***** or a breast, and stripping children naked and forcing their parents to watch as they were stung by hornets and scorpions. and thousands brutally killed.

NOW... we have several men made to get naked, pose for demeaning pictures, being urinated on etc... YUP...****ty treatment. demeaning and traumatic. maybe even a couple deaths...who knows. the people who did these things should be diciplined and punished. BUT, if you look at the extremes of treatment and numbers, we are still looking pretty damn good. heck of a lot closer to the ideal than the hell of iraq a little over a year ago.

so, lets stop bitching about the U.S. not being perfect. perfect doesnt exist. we cannot control the actions of every single human being in our military at all times... get real. this is a war situation.

[Midav]

Yeah, they are overblowing it to the point of being stupid.

I am in agreement that the people responsible for this should be punished to the max for what they did.

However, the way it's portrayed and shown is silly.

Be it showing Michael Jackson going to court for child molestation charges on TV 24 friggin 7 or several soldiers acting like fools with prisoners, why blow this stuff out of proportion?

These types of actions have happened before and will happen again.

Have it on the news, then get over it.

[esl]

One more thing.... these prisoners, why were they in prison in the first place???? jaywalking? drunk driving? smoking pot? they are hardass radicals with an ak47 in their hands but make em get naked...oh nooo. these guys are not angels guys.


Maybe or maybe they are not but this comment reveals a "ism" in modern thinking....that if they are in prison they deserve it right? :roll:

What your going to find with this is what we found in canada with the Somalia incident. That is the thinking typified above is systemic and not just a few bad apples. These people are assumed to be guilty until proven innocent and if that fails a little heavy handling would hurt. If it was america they would get due process ... but they are not in America so what the hell they deserve every thing they get, right?

There was a line about 'unleashing the dogs of war'. These are refereing to the degeneration of society that happens under enforced occcupation and war. These are the kinds of break downs that you look for to monitor just how bad things are getting.

Remember this war is sold as a struggle between 'good and evil' and 'right and wrong'. It seems the americans are blurring the destinctions between these ideals. I wonder if some Iraqies are thinking "with friends like these, who needs enemies" ;)

[vikingblade]

So what ?

When someone kills a child, it is legitim for you to kill a child ? :roll:

no, but ill get in line to be the first to kick the killers teeth in.

EVERYONE PLEASE READ THIS....as to your point, children are taken out of severelyabusive homes every day and then placed in foster homes where unfortunately, they are neglected and treated poorly. however, it is better than being sodomized, burned by cigarettes, or getting beaten to death. the department of child welfare would love to get a perfect loving home for every abused child, but it cannot. it does what it can. it cannot control every action of every foster parant in the system. it woud like to, but it cant. thats reality. sucks but true. **** will happen. doesnt make it right, just makes it true. are ya following where im going with this..... the military is doing the best they can. they cannot control the action of every soldier.

now, if i came upon these idiots in the prison doing this stupid ****, theyd be visiting the medic, same as the abusing foster parant. but ya cant just throw out the baby with the bathwater. PEOPLE NEED TO FUKIN GROW UP AND FACE REALITY. **** HAPPENS.

[Jack Mehoff]

What kind of thinking gap is it that some of you guys have, that makes you think these tortures and abuses are somehow ok only because there is/was far worse stuff going on all around the world?
The USA propagates itself as being morally and ethically superior, so if they don't act like it, of course that's a big story. You can't say "he's a dangerous dictator who kills and tortures his own people, we must bring him down" and then start torturing yourself.

On the other hand, they expect better of American troops, that they have a higher moral standard, that they belong to a superior moral culture that is not capable of doing something like this. So when these things happen ... it's the story of the year!
So what you basically trying to tell us is that american soldiers don't have a higher moral standard and that we shouldn't expect any better of them than from saddams soldiers. That's really great, I bet you thought long and hard before posting. :roll:

Don't be a dumbass :D . As much as you want to dream, no Americans on this board condone the behavior done by SIX U.S. soldiers.

Using your own logic, ALL arabs and muslims are terrorists because 18 dumbasses hijacked commercial jets and flew into buildings full of office workers, right?
Is there a reason why people keep blaming all American soldiers, America, U.S. government because SIX U.S. soldiers acted like a moron?

[esl]

The danger is thinking that there are only 6 cause thats all there were. They are only 6 cause thats all thats come to the surface so far, there might infact be 60 cases ....and this war is only one year old :roll:

[Jack Mehoff]

The danger is thinking that there are only 6 cause thats all there were. They are only 6 cause thats all thats come to the surface so far, there might infact be 60 cases ....and this war is only one year old :roll:

The danger is thinking that there were only al queda fighters in Fallujah cause thats all there were. They are only al queda fighters thats in Fallujah all thats come to the surface so far, there might be in fact more terrorists in Iraq...and this war is only one years old. :roll:

[J-10]

CIA instigated MP's to abuse Iraqi prisoners.

[WanderingNomad]

Again: there is such an uproar because the abuse was made by US citizens. The self-proclaimed light of civilization and democracy.

Such abuse can be expected from dictatorships and other shady governement, but not from the US. The US has set a higher standard and has to meet it itself.

[Jack Mehoff]

Oh, I see, 6 people represent 280,000,000 Americans and U.S. government.

Gotcha!

[ogukuo72]

What kind of thinking gap is it that some of you guys have, that makes you think these tortures and abuses are somehow ok only because there is/was far worse stuff going on all around the world?
The USA propagates itself as being morally and ethically superior, so if they don't act like it, of course that's a big story. You can't say "he's a dangerous dictator who kills and tortures his own people, we must bring him down" and then start torturing yourself.

On the other hand, they expect better of American troops, that they have a higher moral standard, that they belong to a superior moral culture that is not capable of doing something like this. So when these things happen ... it's the story of the year!
So what you basically trying to tell us is that american soldiers don't have a higher moral standard and that we shouldn't expect any better of them than from saddams soldiers. That's really great, I bet you thought long and hard before posting. :roll:

Nope, I'm just saying that the media is racist because they seem to think that the Asians and Middle Easterners have lower standards, and these things are 'normal'. Therefore it is not worth giving the same air time to cover the worse (much worse) tortures and abuses in these regimes.

[SFontaine]

http://www.filibustercartoons.com/comics/20040505.gif

[SFontaine]

CIA instigated MP's to abuse Iraqi prisoners.

Evidence?

[Jack Mehoff]

Hey, there is this muslim-arab dude works at 7-11 store down my street. Should I go kick his ass? I mean....18 terrorists in 9/11 was arab-muslim, right?

[WolverineBlue]

There is no excuse for inhumane treatment of any prisoner. Anyone, soldier, contractor, Iraqi, that gets caught doing any of this should be treated like a criminal.

[J-10]

CIA instigated MP's to abuse Iraqi prisoners.

Evidence?

http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=8&id=297193

Monday, May 3, 2004 at 03:00 JST
WASHINGTON — A U.S. military report shows the torture of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. soldiers was systematic and often carried out at the request of intelligence groups including the Central Intelligence Agency, the New Yorker magazine reported on its web site Sunday.

[WolverineBlue]

CIA instigated MP's to abuse Iraqi prisoners.

Evidence?

http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=8&id=297193

Monday, May 3, 2004 at 03:00 JST
WASHINGTON — A U.S. military report shows the torture of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. soldiers was systematic and often carried out at the request of intelligence groups including the Central Intelligence Agency, the New Yorker magazine reported on its web site Sunday.

Cocaine's a helluva drug. I am shocked and dismayed by this, and I'm an American.

[the_spec]

What kind of thinking gap is it that some of you guys have, that makes you think these tortures and abuses are somehow ok only because there is/was far worse stuff going on all around the world?
The USA propagates itself as being morally and ethically superior, so if they don't act like it, of course that's a big story. You can't say "he's a dangerous dictator who kills and tortures his own people, we must bring him down" and then start torturing yourself.

On the other hand, they expect better of American troops, that they have a higher moral standard, that they belong to a superior moral culture that is not capable of doing something like this. So when these things happen ... it's the story of the year!
So what you basically trying to tell us is that american soldiers don't have a higher moral standard and that we shouldn't expect any better of them than from saddams soldiers. That's really great, I bet you thought long and hard before posting. :roll:

Don't be a dumbass :D . As much as you want to dream, no Americans on this board condone the behavior done by SIX U.S. soldiers.

Using your own logic, ALL arabs and muslims are terrorists because 18 dumbasses hijacked commercial jets and flew into buildings full of office workers, right?
Is there a reason why people keep blaming all American soldiers, America, U.S. government because SIX U.S. soldiers acted like a moron?
Yes...perhaps you shouldn't invent things I haven't said just to pull out your great argument. So when I specifically reply to ogukuo post, you don't need to force your interpretation on me.
You may be pissed by the way I have written things, but I'm not going to start writing stuff like "6 men that accidentally happen to be part of the US military are accused of torturing" just to please everyone here.



@ogukuo:

Nope, I'm just saying that the media is racist because they seem to think that the Asians and Middle Easterners have lower standards, and these things are 'normal'. Therefore it is not worth giving the same air time to cover the worse (much worse) tortures and abuses in these regimes.
That's stupid. You know why? Because it is a simple fact that death and torture are much more common place, speak "normal", in oppressive regimes all over the world, than they are in the USA or europe. We know that there's such a thing as "death by stoning", or cutting off hands for thievery and these punishments are not some individuals idea, they're part of that society. So you try and tell me that they don't have a lower standard of morality in countries like Iran. Then there's another thing: most of what happens in these places never gets to the public because there is no free press in these countries. It is only when so called investigative journalists travel there that they uncover what is actually happening. The US on the other hand is constantly under watch by the media. So I personally don't see any racism in that.
You know what's racist? Making the death of 3000 people in a terrorist attack a media event, while thousands of africans die of starvation unnoticed.

[Argyll]

I have yet to see someone from the US in these forums to say that what went on is acceptable behaviour of their Soldiers/Agencies,they have all said the perpetrators of these acts must be punished to the full,and I agree.
However there are some individuals here who are like a dog with a bone,they have their teeth in this and a refusing to let go..........until the next thing comes along,whether it be civvy deaths at a checkpoint or whatever.As long as they see an avenue at having a dig at the US,the Coalition,or US Policies,then they will do so.As this is an American based site they have to remember they are guests here,you do not get invited to your neighbours house and start to criticise the hosts culinary skills do you?So why do this here?
What has been done has been done .............get over it,let the investigations and prosecutions begin,but it's getting tiresome,EVERYONE KNOWS IT WAS WRONG......this has been accepted ,but certain individuals seem to be hell bent in the continuation of adding fuel to the fire........it is helping no-one,and if they feel so strongly about it I suggets they join the Peace corps or amnesty international,and go to Iraq and act as monitors within that facility.


Post edit.
Why is it that the main Instigators are from Germany and Finland when it comes to the dog and bone syndrome?........yes I've checked IP addresses ;)

[HELEX]

The main reason for the interest in this issue is the high horse you were riding. All this "liberator", "we are welcome", "its not about Oil", "WMD" and "Saddam tortures" Bull**** turned out to be just lies but still arent recognized by you.

The shining selfless coalition of liberators.... rofl

[Sergei]

each day, I bet prison abuses far worse are carried out in draconian countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran.

But hey.. see no evil, hear no evil.

Some dimwit in Pentagon claimed to win hearts and minds. Hearts and minds can only be won by those with souls and brains.

[Argyll]

The main reason for the interest in this issue is the high horse you were riding. All this "liberator", "we are welcome", "its not about Oil", "WMD" and "Saddam tortures" Bull**** turned out to be just lies but still arent recognized by you.

The shining selfless coalition of liberators.... rofl


What the hell has this got to do with this topic?

HELEX if you do not like this site and it's contents then I strongly suggest you vacate yourself to where your comment actualy mean someone gives a Fuc*!!

[weedman]

Yeah, just compare the actions of a (more or less :lol: ) democratic army with actions of a dictator :lol:

[HELEX]

The main reason for the interest in this issue is the high horse you were riding. All this "liberator", "we are welcome", "its not about Oil", "WMD" and "Saddam tortures" Bull**** turned out to be just lies but still arent recognized by you.

The shining selfless coalition of liberators.... rofl


What the hell has this got to do with this topic?

HELEX if you do not like this site and it's contents then I strongly suggest you vacate yourself to where your comment actualy mean someone gives a Fuc*!!

No I cant, the forum I normally used became to anti-american and contained a lot of hate. Was tired of defending G. W. Bush after a while. :D

[Argyll]

Then how about you leave out your Sentiment ,and start posting good stuff for a change isnstead of damning everyone associated with Iraq?

Whats the latest Military buzz in Deutchland,are the Germans still happy enough to accept the incomes generated by the American and British Bases.?

Are you still kissing Jaques Chirac's ass so that you can try and be the dominant force in Europe again? ;)

[HELEX]

Then how about you leave out your Sentiment ,and start posting good stuff for a change isnstead of damning everyone associated with Iraq?

Whats the latest Military buzz in Deutchland,are the Germans still happy enough to accept the incomes generated by the American and British Bases.?

Are you still kissing Jaques Chirac's ass so that you can try and be the dominant force in Europe again? ;)

I wont be sad if they leave, and about France: We are kissing each others Asses fo good reasons and cooperating well. Uncle Sams Ass smells to much and Tony Blair needs all the Place in there.

[Argyll]

I never asked about your opinions I asked about Germany's ;)

Tell me why exactly are you and the French sleeping together?Is this some kind of penance for past deeds?

Tony Blairs a foking **** I'll give you that one! ;)

[weedman]

I never asked about your opinions I asked about Germany's ;) There is no simple opinion.

Everybody has his own opinion. Of course, and there are majorities, but saying German thinks 'bla bla' is as wrong as saying all Americans support the war or all Israelis hate Palestinians.

[Argyll]

I never asked about your opinions I asked about Germany's ;) There is no simple opinion.

Everybody has his own opinion. Of course, and there are majorities, but saying German thinks 'bla bla' is as wrong as saying all Americans support the war or all Israelis hate Palestinians.

You mean like Generalisation?

Where people who have never been to Iraq Generalise etc? ;)

[HELEX]

I never asked about your opinions I asked about Germany's ;)

Tell me why exactly are you and the French sleeping together?Is this some kind of penance for past deeds?

Tony Blairs a foking **** I'll give you that one! ;)

During the "hot" days before the attack on Iraq when Europe was torn there were serious Plans to form a French/German State with common foreign Politics, common economic policy, Taxes and Army. The economic ties between our countrys are much stronger than those to the US or UK which are still very big. The foreign policy is nearly identical and Europe was always an French/german vision. The french and german GNP per capita, Taxes, social security is quite similar so economically a Superstate would cause no Problems.

Remember that Photo of chiraq and Schroeder shaking Hand in Front of a restaurant? The name of that restaurant was when translated "To the last Instance". The US interpreted it in the way that they stopped playing out their friendship agains the french-german immediately. But maybe that was just by chance.... :D

[Argyll]

I never asked about your opinions I asked about Germany's ;)

Tell me why exactly are you and the French sleeping together?Is this some kind of penance for past deeds?

Tony Blairs a foking **** I'll give you that one! ;)

During the "hot" days before the attack on Iraq when Europe was torn there were serious Plans to form a French/German State with common foreign Politics, common economic policy, Taxes and Army. The economic ties between our countrys are much stronger than those to the US or UK which are still very big. The foreign policy is nearly identical and Europe was always an French/german vision. The french and german GNP per capita, Taxes, social security is quite similar so economically a Superstate would cause no Problems.

Remember that Photo of chiraq and Schroeder shaking Hand in Front of a restaurant? The name of that restaurant was when translated "To the last Instance". The US interpreted it in the way that they stopped playing out their friendship agains the french-german immediately. But maybe that was just by chance.... :D

And these would be the same Foriegn Policies that Europe and in particular the French and Germans want to impose on the people of the United Kingdom?The same policies they steamrollered the other Euronations into?

No thanks mate,I want to keep my identity,my heritage and culture no matter how flawed and imperfect it is,it is what makes us who we are,our own Currency our own Laws and our own beliefs,last thing I want to do is be run by some asshole in Brussels.

[ibstolidude]

Sounds awfully imperialistic to me.

[Argyll]

Sounds awfully imperialistic to me.

Sounds and looks oh too familiar to me as well mate! ;)

[HELEX]

I never asked about your opinions I asked about Germany's ;)

Tell me why exactly are you and the French sleeping together?Is this some kind of penance for past deeds?

Tony Blairs a foking **** I'll give you that one! ;)

During the "hot" days before the attack on Iraq when Europe was torn there were serious Plans to form a French/German State with common foreign Politics, common economic policy, Taxes and Army. The economic ties between our countrys are much stronger than those to the US or UK which are still very big. The foreign policy is nearly identical and Europe was always an French/german vision. The french and german GNP per capita, Taxes, social security is quite similar so economically a Superstate would cause no Problems.

Remember that Photo of chiraq and Schroeder shaking Hand in Front of a restaurant? The name of that restaurant was when translated "To the last Instance". The US interpreted it in the way that they stopped playing out their friendship agains the french-german immediately. But maybe that was just by chance.... :D

And these would be the same Foriegn Policies that Europe and in particular the French and Germans want to impose on the people of the United Kingdom?The same policies they steamrollered the other Euronations into?

No thanks mate,I want to keep my identity,my heritage and culture no matter how flawed and imperfect it is,it is what makes us who we are,our own Currency our own Laws and our own beliefs,last thing I want to do is be run by some asshole in Brussels.

So whats your Problem? You can send your own bunch of assholes to Brussels that contributes to decisions we dont like? Doesnt your Goverment do decisions that are better for some regions on your Island and for other not positive? :roll:

[Argyll]

My problem is I do not want to be ruled by some Garlic muncher from Brussels.......we did not vote for this.........it is not Democratic.

Sure the wankers here are no better at least they're British voted in By BRITISH!!

The British people do not want to send their assholes to Brussels,there's enough there already ;)

[HELEX]

My problem is I do not want to be ruled by some Garlic muncher from Brussels.......we did not vote for this.........it is not Democratic.

Sure the wankers here are no better at least they're British voted in By BRITISH!!

The British people do not want to send their assholes to Brussels,there's enough there already ;)

So whats the point? The British influence is direct proportinal to the Population, and still voted by british. A european defense policy would be cheaper and more effective.

[Fintin]

ITS THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT...ok...fine join up economicly...but militaritly....the next step is disolving the individual states and forming a new country made up of what was europe...next thing you know is we will have peace in the middle east and sonny jesus will be coming back.....not that it would be bad....just my thoughts

[Argyll]

ITS THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT...ok...fine join up economicly...but militaritly....the next step is disolving the individual states and forming a new country made up of what was europe...next thing you know is we will have peace in the middle east and sonny jesus will be coming back.....not that it would be bad....just my thoughts

Not just your thoughts ;) ,see the Germans and the French know fine they are 2 of the strongest both Politicaly amd militarily,so they in essence will be calling the shots,or perhaps this is just the train of thought?
Would the Franco German partnership be willing to take heed of the little man from Leichtenstien?
Time will tell on this.......but from the people from Scotlands POV we wanted and fought for our own Parliament,and we got that,and to have to answer to some wanker with a different Language other than their own is something not taken lightly,it's bad enough that the English can influence our affairs(no offence meant here......but it's fact),but to have some Garlic muncher tell us what is good /not good for our country is a joke.........a very bad one!

[esl]

[
The danger is thinking that there were only al queda fighters in Fallujah cause thats all there were. They are only al queda fighters thats in Fallujah all thats come to the surface so far, there might be in fact more terrorists in Iraq...and this war is only one years old. :roll:

Theres also a danger in thinking that all the people fighting In IRaQ against america are terrorists. I think other people are starting to see them as fighting for their country.