Help with an Optics recommend?

[Bitter Muppet]

Hi all! This is my first post and after looking at a number of other posts on this site it appears this is a great community to deal with.

With that in mind, I'm hoping to get some educated opinions with regards to optics for my Springfield Socom II. I know that some here (and other forums) aren't crazy about the Socom II's 16" barrel or the Quad-Rail system, but these are the reasons I bought it. Where I live I'll never be able to master the super-long range shots that the longer-barrel Springfield M1A rifles can deliver and I love the ability to add accessories to this one.

I avoided the model with the extended rail because I had heard from several sources that it can sometimes be a problem for the ejected shells. I'm pretty sure I'm going to stick with a 1 or maybe even as much as a 2 power red-dot optic such as an ACOG or something similar.

I haven't ruled out something that's more of a traditional scope with more magnification and I know there are some rail adapters that will help me do this.

Most of my shooting experience is hand-guns or non-scoped rifles. I don't have a huge budget for the optics so when I see low-priced ones I'm tempted, but I don't want to waste the ca$h at all if it's a POS. Basically I'm like the family that waaaay overspent on the house and as a result can only afford inflatable pool floats for furniture. The gun was a little more than I wanted to spend, but with Springfied's reputation, I figured it was $ well spent.

Any solutions that any of you can offer will be appreciated. Also let me know if this is the best area of the forum to ask this or if it should be moved to another area.

I'll be checking this one all day! http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

[jagermeister]

get a eotech and be done with it.

[Bitter Muppet]

Which model would you recommend?

[Hydro]

I'm no optics expert, but it really depends on what you want to use your rifle for. When you say you can't take super long range shots, how far do you shoot to? 2-300m?

[jimmyboots]

I would recommend going to a store and playing with a aimpoint comp ml2 (~$400 no mount) and a eotech 511, 512(~$380) to see what works for you. Both of these are pretty much the same as they're mil counterparts except without NV settings. Personally I prefer the aimpoint, but thats what I got used to.

[Seraphim]

I prefer EOTech...some people have problems with the EOTechs "reticle" though.

[Bitter Muppet]

I would recommend going to a store and playing with a aimpoint comp ml2 (~$400 no mount) and a eotech 511, 512(~$380) to see what works for you. Both of these are pretty much the same as they're mil counterparts except without NV settings. Personally I prefer the aimpoint, but thats what I got used to.

Actually, Springfield also recommended AIMPOINT so I called them up. I spoke with a very knowledgeable man named John that gave me a bunch of information about their ml2 and ml3 so I'm kind of leaning towards those now.

To answer HYDRO's question, I will more than likely never have an opportunity to go more than 300 yards and even then only on a rare occasion. Will a complete lack of magnification allow me to do that? From what I'm told, even with only a 16" barrel this gun is capable of 600yards.

So I guess I want my cake and eat it too. I'd like the ability to get instant target acquisition (as with any red-dot style scope) but also get the range that you can get with a magnified scope. My contact at AIMPOINT said that if I go with an ML3 for now and later on I can put a 3x magnifier on it later that may do the trick for me. Apparently there's a mount that goes where the 'stripper clip' guide is on the M1A rifles and that could mount a traditional rifle scope or the 3x magnifier. I'm just a bit torn on what to do and there's only so much $ that my wife will let me spend on this. And I'll remind her of that when zombies are marching towards our house and because I skimped on the optics I can't shoot them all in enough time!!!

[jimmyboots]

Why not a illumnated variable powered scope? Theres a few choices that are 1-4x, like trijicons accupoint, schmidt & benders short dot, meoptas scope and a couple of new entries from GRSC, and Milletts new DMS 1-4x24 for around $250. I would definitely take a hard look at Milletts if I were i the market for a scope.

[Geezah]

Go with an IOR, you won't be sorry.........

[Bitter Muppet]

Why not a illumnated variable powered scope? Theres a few choices that are 1-4x, like trijicons accupoint, schmidt & benders short dot, meoptas scope and a couple of new entries from GRSC, and Milletts new DMS 1-4x24 for around $250. I would definitely take a hard look at Milletts if I were i the market for a scope.

The Millett is very attractive to me as far as price (found online waay less than $250). But at the same time, I'm not real familiar with their reputation. Obviously there's the big names with the big price tags, and I don't think you always have to spend more for a good product, but finding the DMS online for less than $200, is it considered a budget scope? Along the lines of a TASCO?

Has anyone here used MILLETT?

[Bitter Muppet]

Go with an IOR, you won't be sorry.........

I bet I would be happy. I just checked out the 1.1-4x26 CRT by IOR and man, $995..... Out of my price range. That's what's going to make this difficult. If it's too low in price, I start doubting the product. If it's too high in price, I automatically assume it's a better product, and then wish it was cheaper so I could buy it.

LOL....I am going to have to research this for a good long time before I can make a decision. Hopefully then I can afford the higher end stuff I want.

[Douros81]

get a eotech and be done with it.


No **** get an Eotech best bang for the buck, and it works better then an ACOG. I have one on my Ar-15

I hope this helps

[Eastlight]

Just been issued with an Aimpoint M4, runs on AAs, comes with it's own mount, and great bit of kit. Regarding Eotech's, thought there was trouble/failure with the reticle these days in sh**y conditions?? anyway, get what you can afford and happy with.

[BillySing]

If you've got the money.


http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/2023/zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzts5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Zenith 1.5–6 x 42
Perhaps our most versatile scope. Excellent for close-range hunting on large game, while its 6x upper limit allows precise bullet placement at all but the longest distances. A large objective lens provides outstanding low-light performance, and a large field of view makes it highly efficient for driven game, stalking, and high seat or stand hunting.


Personally, I prefer the open sights on my M1a, but I've only got half a week's paycheck to go until I can invest in another S&B.

[Bitter Muppet]

Just been issued with an Aimpoint M4, runs on AAs, comes with it's own mount, and great bit of kit. Regarding Eotech's, thought there was trouble/failure with the reticle these days in sh**y conditions?? anyway, get what you can afford and happy with.

Interesting. Do you have any links about the Eotech failures? I'm really starting to lean towards the aimpoints. I guess they're the only ones that are 'parallax-free'. I understand that the seals are using aimpoints.

I was looking at this one:
http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=20

[lt tahoe]

I've used both Aimpoints and Eotechs, and prefer the Aimpoint. Easier to use, simpler, and I find the Eotech reticle too big and distracting. Plus, having a separate mount means you can get one that fits your particular application.

But either is a good option, that's just my take on them. Sounds like you are unlikely to need anything magnified.

[jimmyboots]

No **** get an Eotech best bang for the buck, and it works better then an ACOG. I have one on my Ar-15

I hope this helps

Not sure if I understand this as an ACOG and EOtech are completely defferent animals.

Anyway, the only EOtech failures I've heard of are the battery compartments break/coming off and of the sites coming off of rifles during live fire. I've had my aimpoint M2 since 2004 with no issues. I would also recommend anything Larue makes, he really took care of us at one point and produces a great product.

I think that if I had a socom though, I would probably want something with magnification. And if you don't need a milspec scope why pay for one? Heres some more info on the Millet http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=5167

[Hydro]

I've used an EOTech at 100m and loved it. Really good. The reticule was fuzzy though, don't know why. Anything past that and I'd personally want a good 4x optic out to 300m.

[Freibier]

If you want a real good scope, buy Schmidt&Bender.
As I see that you're on a limited budget:
The Nikon Monarch series scopes are the most inexpensive quality scopes out there.
Anything below them is junk, imho.
If you can live without magnification, get an eotech as others already recommended

[Indiana Jones]

I second that.

[SMGLee]

No matter how they sell it, the SOCOM or any 308 short barrel isn't the do all CQB platform. It is a great urban rifle with good CQB capabilities.

with this...

I would recommand a traditional scope set up.

http://www.opticsplanet.net/leupold-euro-30-125-4x20mm-riflescope.html

this is Leupold's 1.25-4x scope, at the price range, it is comparible with the EOtech or Aimpint and with a good mount, you will not have any problem with ejection.

try Unertl M14 mount or the SOCOM spec'ed Smith Enterprise mount. both will give the reliability with ejection you requested.

If you shoot low light, you migth want illumination.. I would then upgrade to some thing like a....

http://www.opticsplanet.net/leupold-vx-iii-1-5-5x20mm-illuminated-reticle-rifle-scope.html

S&B short dot is a great scope, but not at the price they charge.. and Nightforce 1-4x at half of the price are just as excellent and it would be my no.1 scope for this application, but it is way out of your budget range also.

[jimmyboots]

^^ that and a larue spr mount would be ideal for me.

[Bitter Muppet]

No matter how they sell it, the SOCOM or any 308 short barrel isn't the do all CQB platform. It is a great urban rifle with good CQB capabilities.

with this...

I would recommand a traditional scope set up.

http://www.opticsplanet.net/leupold-euro-30-125-4x20mm-riflescope.html

this is Leupold's 1.25-4x scope, at the price range, it is comparible with the EOtech or Aimpint and with a good mount, you will not have any problem with ejection.

try Unertl M14 mount or the SOCOM spec'ed Smith Enterprise mount. bot will give the reliability with ejection you requested.

If you shoot low light, you migth want illumination.. I would then upgrade to some thing like a....

http://www.opticsplanet.net/leupold-vx-iii-1-5-5x20mm-illuminated-reticle-rifle-scope.html

S&B short dot is a great scope, but not at the price they charge.. and Nightforce 1-4x at half of the price are just as excellent and it would be my no.1 scope for this application, but it is way out of your budget range also.

For magnified scopes, those look like they'd do the job. I guess once I make a decision to either go magnified or not magnified I'll be able to make a purchase. For 'CQB' I would imagine there's no reason for magnification. But still, since I can achieve a nice range with it, might want to get something that would help me with that.

Those Millet scopes recommended earlier do sound tempting. On the one hand, since I don't have to opportunity to shoot often, I could save money and take a scope that's lower-end when compared to a red-dot or a leupold. On the other hand, if I really need it to count (worst case scenario), is a Millet going to get me out alive? And that's the million dollar question right there......

[jimmyboots]

thats why you master your irons first. p-)

[Bitter Muppet]

thats why you master your irons first. p-)

Oh, don't worry there. My friend (former marine that's going to help me with this) won't put the glass on for me until I do.

I've done some local research:

I did a search local dealers on Millett's site. I called some of the local guys that carry them (of course like the rest of the country, they're out of the 1-4X24) and nobody could say anything bad about them. What's nice is that these are dealers that stock all the other brands too. I expected the sales rep at Millett to have only positive things to say, but when dealers that can sell me any number of scopes by various manufactures also gave them a thumbs up, I was impressed.
Seriously considering this. Scouring the net for bad reviews but can't find any. Does anyone have a negative point of reference on Millett?

[jimmyboots]

Oh, don't worry there. My friend (former marine that's going to help me with this) won't put the glass on for me until I do.

I'm glad to hear that, as a former Marine myself.

Get the Millett, buy ammo with money you save, shoot the sh1T out of your rifle and do a writeup here to tell us about it. p-)

[Bitter Muppet]

I'm glad to hear that, as a former Marine myself.

Get the Millett, buy ammo with money you save, shoot the sh1T out of your rifle and do a writeup here to tell us about it. p-)

Haha Marine, is that an order then?


Looks like the nicest aspect about the Millett is that I have plenty of time to mull it over. Per their sales rep, they 'hope' to have a shipment in hopefully in about a month. Once I get that thing and start blowing apart old refrigerators with it, I'll post to this thread or maybe even PM you.

Thanks for all the advice and this is certainly NOT CLOSED. Any additional feedback/advice/warnings/recommends, please keep them coming. I've got at least a month to buy whatever. Let's hope the zombies wait until I do.......

[LapuaMag]

The only type of scopes you can mount as your socom is, WITHOUT the extended rail are those that have unlimited FOV, and eye relief. You won't be able to see through your typical mid/long range scopes as they will be mounted to far forward on your rail. I have an Aimpoint M3 that works well. Eotechs are good. IF you want to mount a mid range scope you'll need to find a mount that will cover your ejection port, this is the only way you'll be able to get proper eye relief. So keep that in mind. You can go the route of scout type scopes as well. Heres a pic of my Socom II w/ the M3 on.
P.S. If you go w/ a traditional scope go w/ IOR. I have one and it is badazz. Remember getting the right mount will run you almost as much as an Aimpoint, then the scope so.... not cheap.
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n123/ikestorm13/meandthem019.jpg

[Bitter Muppet]

SWEET Stock you got there. That's on my list of must-haves. So you've got the M3, not the ML3? Going night vision? I'm curious which mount you used with it.

I've seen picatinny scope rails that replace the antiquated 'stripper clip' guide located on the rifle's receiver. 'sort of' like the extended option for the SOCOM II but the after-market versions I've seen tend to give you a little better lift and should hopefully avoid the ejection issues I've seen reported on the extended-rail model. Of course, I still have the ML3 with LaRue mounts as a contender for this. If I go just red-dot, that's how I'm doing it.

[Bitter Muppet]

Actually LapuaMag (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=32998), do you think the gun itself is more of a non-magnified CQB or would it a traditional scope be ok for it? Your obvious choice is the Aimpoint. What made you go that route?

[Douros81]

Not sure if I understand this as an ACOG and EOtech are completely defferent animals.

Anyway, the only EOtech failures I've heard of are the battery compartments break/coming off and of the sites coming off of rifles during live fire. I've had my aimpoint M2 since 2004 with no issues. I would also recommend anything Larue makes, he really took care of us at one point and produces a great product.

I think that if I had a socom though, I would probably want something with magnification. And if you don't need a milspec scope why pay for one? Heres some more info on the Millet http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=5167

I think the Eotech is a better site, plus its a better value, mine only $425, as compared to $1200 for an ACOG.

[scrybe]

Whatever you end up getting, keep an eye on the Optics forum in the EE at arfcom. I bought my Aimpoint Comp M2 with mount (see profile pic) there a couple years ago for $275 new. Great deals pop up often.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=7&f=23

[jimmyboots]

^^ I second that, great place. You may want to also check www.m-14forum.com (http://www.m-14forum.com) for tech. info.

[ABNINF]

I think the Eotech is a better site, plus its a better value, mine only $425, as compared to $1200 for an ACOG.

What he's getting at is that they're 2 different optics with 2 different purposes.

[Bitter Muppet]

And the '2 different applications' is where I'm stuck for now. I've narrowed it down to either going with a magnified scope or a non magnified red-dot style scope.

If I go magnified, I'm going to try out the Millet. Basically, for the price I can't go wrong. And if it isn't that good I plan on buying a Walther G22 and I'm sure it's worthy of a .22lr if not my .308.

If I go without magnification, I see no other option than the Aimpoint ML3/M3 with 2MOA and a LaRue mount.

[ABNINF]

The best thing is to decide what you want it for first. I've got an EOTech 553 on my AR right now and I love it. I had a Aimpoint CompM2 on it before that. I've carried an Aimpoint and an ACOG overseas. I've shot my AR at 400m with my EOtech and were able to consistently achieve hits on a 10"x12" steel plate. If you want to shoot <200m then get a reflex type optic (EOTech or Aimpoint) and if you want to shoot >200m get something with magnification.

[Bitter Muppet]

That's actually some good numbers to work with ><200. I'd 'love' to shoot more than that. My current geographic setting will almost certainly limit me to much less than 200. My friend I mentioned earlier (former Marine) has a place that's going to give me just over 100 yards. I'm still leaning towards the ML3/M3 with 2MOA and the Larue mount. I might cave at the last minute and get the Millet 1-4x24. Either way, I have about a month to research this while I try to get the funds.
Thanks for the advice!

[ABNINF]

I'd recommend going with the Aimpoint then. There's no need no magnification at +/- 100m

[Bitter Muppet]

Ok guys....one more idea here. Seeing as I'm a shooter on a budget (and the Springfield rifle kinda broke that bank for a while), do you have any opinions on the Bushnell HOLOsight XLP?

[ABNINF]

I believe that the Bushnell is made under license from L3 and is basically just a cheaper EOTech. I may be wrong though. JMO, I'd be patient and save your $$ and get what you really want, trust me, it'll be worth it.

[jimmyboots]

yup, pretty much the same as a eotech minus the hood, durabilty.

[Bitter Muppet]

Hi all! Breathing some life into this old post because I found something worth considering. LaRue makes a Tactical SPR-E LT-139 (http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=40) that might just allow me to go magnified if I decide again to look at going that route. I haven't picked up any optics just yet. Putting my money down the drain instead, literally. Plumbing problems in the house are costing about what I wanted to spend on the glass so needless to say, I've got some more time to research this......

[Mr.Vegas]

Hi all! Breathing some life into this old post because I found something worth considering. LaRue makes a Tactical SPR-E LT-139 (http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=40) that might just allow me to go magnified if I decide again to look at going that route. I haven't picked up any optics just yet. Putting my money down the drain instead, literally. Plumbing problems in the house are costing about what I wanted to spend on the glass so needless to say, I've got some more time to research this......


Hey Muppet this is the LaRue mount you are talking about on a gun from www.m4carbine.net (http://www.m4carbine.net) with the Milet scope:

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o75/thatonekidmatt/021.jpg

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o75/thatonekidmatt/011.jpg

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=5167

This is the link for the thread. Hope I helped. And good luck with the plumbing. :)

[Bitter Muppet]

Wow....2 for 1 huh? Found the mount I'm considering pictured with the scope as well. Great lead and thanX.
From what I understand I'd just put it on backwards on the SOCOM instead of getting one of those rear mounts.
As for the plumbing....I wish all of life's problems could be solved with my .308.......

[Mr.Vegas]

Wow....2 for 1 huh? Found the mount I'm considering pictured with the scope as well. Great lead and thanX.
From what I understand I'd just put it on backwards on the SOCOM instead of getting one of those rear mounts.
As for the plumbing....I wish all of life's problems could be solved with my .308.......


Yup thats what you do. And solving all of life's problems with a .308 would be freckin awesome lmao.

[Bitter Muppet]

Ok guys, I did it. I found the deal of the century on an Aimpoint M4. It's everything the M3 is and more. Integrated mount....everything. I should have it the end of this week or early next week. That solves that!!!!

I'll let you know how it goes and I'll see if I can't get a photo of it on here for you.

I just found it interesting that 100% of active or former military (army/marines) said that if I'm 200yards or less I need to go 1x. It'll take some getting used to but maybe after I pay this off and sell off a gun or two I might get the magnifier to combo with it.

[Douros81]

What he's getting at is that they're 2 different optics with 2 different purposes.


For a M-4 type rifle an Eotech or Aimpoint will work just fine. I think an ACOG is more for a M16A2 or an M14, somthing with a barrel over 16in. If I where putting an optic on a M14 I would go with the ACOG.

[Bitter Muppet]

For a M-4 type rifle an Eotech or Aimpoint will work just fine. I think an ACOG is more for a M16A2 or an M14, somthing with a barrel over 16in. If I where putting an optic on a M14 I would go with the ACOG.

I've kicked the idea around and looked at co$t a lot. I don't see getting anything out of the ACOG in the same price range that I'm not getting out of the M4. Some list parallax free but only along the horizontal axis. From what I've learned, this one's completely parallax free. Integrated mount. AAA Batter that runs approx 8years.

It was either this or I was going for a $30 TASCO from the local chinaMart as I've been beating myself up over what I was going to buy for about a month or two now.

I can't see me NOT being happy with an Aimpoint M4. Time will tell.....

[jimmyboots]

Hey, great choice and glad you got a good deal on an M4. Get some range time with that bad boy and let us know what you think.

[Bitter Muppet]

Hey, great choice and glad you got a good deal on an M4. Get some range time with that bad boy and let us know what you think.

Range time? Yeah, like I can afford ammo now.....LOL

[scrybe]

No joke. Ammo prices are killing one of my few precious hobbies.

[Bitter Muppet]

No joke. Ammo prices are killing one of my few precious hobbies.

That bad huh? I haven't even looked. Between the co$t of the rifle and now this Aimpoint M4 I'm all kinda broke.

Hey, should I start a new thread or maybe since it was brought up here someone can guide me to some decent quality affordable .308 boxes. I've heard of the catastrophic failures caused by reloads and other poor quality stuff so I'll stay clear of that. Anyone got a recommend on good ammo at a good price?

LOL...looks like my 10/22 and my Mark II Slabside will be getting a lot of action until I get some funds up from these recent acquisitions.

[schwarz]

No joke. Ammo prices are killing one of my few precious hobbies.


x2 I am down to my 9's and .22's no more high powerd fun every range trip.:-(

[Bitter Muppet]

Ok, now that I've got my optics ordered (will get it Saturday) the next question is concerning replacement stocks.

I'm impressed with the Sage brand but I notice they ALL seem to have a rail system on them. Point is my gun is a Springfield SOCOM II, I already have a quad-rail system in place so I don't need to pay extra for a replacement stock that features that.

VLTOR appears to have one for a little le$$ than Sage and it's probably because there's not rail system included.

Any other recommends for a possible replacement stock?

Think I should start another thread?

[H2O MAN]

Why not a illumnated variable powered scope? Theres a few choices that are 1-4x, like trijicons accupoint, schmidt & benders short dot, meoptas scope and a couple of new entries from GRSC, and Milletts new DMS 1-4x24 for around $250. I would definitely take a hard look at Milletts if I were i the market for a scope.

Yep, drop your SOCOM into a TROY MCS and run the Millet DMS-1.
This is mine - I have not decided what barreled action I want to run yet, but you get the idea.

http://www.athenswater.com/images/DMS-1M14-MCS.jpg

[Bitter Muppet]

Yep, drop your SOCOM into a TROY MCS and run the Millet DMS-1.
This is mine - I have not decided what barreled action I want to run yet, but you get the idea.

http://www.athenswater.com/images/DMS-1M14-MCS.jpg

That's a beauty, but for the $600 to $800 price range I see them in I can't help but think that some of that co$t is for the rail system.
Since I have the SOCOM II I have no need for after-market rail systems. That's why I've pretty much narrowed it down to the Vltor. I also decided not to go magnified because there's little or probably no opportunity to get the gun anywhere near 200yards. The new Aimpoint M4 that I ordered should do what I need it.

[ABNINF]

Good deal, hope you enjoy the Aimpoint.

[jimmyboots]

if it were me, I think that I would take a look at the Mcmillan m2a stock.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o316/frankydec/M2A_lg.jpg

then there is also the MFS14

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o316/frankydec/mfs14Callout1.gif
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o316/frankydec/mfs14Callout2.gif


I don't think that I would want rails and such on my rifle cause I would make it weigh 20 pounds with crap that I don't need. But to each his own. I wish I had your problem though.p-)

[Bitter Muppet]

Hi guys! I know it a lot of time has passed on this one. I forgot to post the pix I took of the rifle after I put the Aimpoint on it. I'm going to take some more pix soon as I've also added an Aimpoint 3x, a green laser and a 5-position grip.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1435/1430924236_5e310ae9fd_o.jpg


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1080/1430924748_bdf4b53860_o.jpg


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1155/1430273220_88a76ee82f_o.jpg