Messages that are warm and fuzzy

[8thidpathfinderpower]

Last nights NBC nightly news did a segment on fake messages and videos that are being made by Iraqi insurgent groups, and Al Queda, depicting american service men and women in battle in Iraq, and telling their stories of misery and attrocities being commited by american troops that are designed to influance the anti-war movement here at home, demoralize american and allied troops,and destroy the will to fight from the soldiers. Sound familiar?

And, I bet, some of these stories have shown up here on MP.net, in one form or another, from stories and videos of american soldiers shooting dogs, to beating prisoners. And, the anti-war lobby, how small they are, are lapping this stuff up like puppies at feeding time. And the latest story I have seen today,deals with the Iraqi parliment and votes to force allied troops out of Iraq.

Sound familiar? Yes,it does. It is called propaganda, and the enemy is learning to use it to full effect, and the results are not at all laughable.

When we read stories about the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, we need to remember, that not everything is true, first hand accounts. Some of it are eing photo shopped, digitaly altered, and remade videos, that are being broadcast to influance the weak minded into thinking that we are fighting a losing cause. While other stories and events, are just totally didtorted from what actually happend. And the latest and most publicized story to be made into propaganda, deals with a soldier from the 101st ABN, and his tale of misery and loathing of the fighting in Iraq. (This video is a case study being taught at West Point by the US Army into the use of effective enemy propaganda)

So words to the wise...do not believe stories that are too good to be true. Especially if they come from websites, that are little and unknown to the general public. Because, it may be propaganda that you are falling for.

[Calanen]

We need to ramp up the propaganda on our side. Propaganda is more important on our side than theirs, because no one gets to vote the Taliban or the Insurgents out of office. Public opinion is critical.

[Rictor]

And, the anti-war lobby, how small they are, are lapping this stuff up like puppies at feeding time. And the latest story I have seen today,deals with the Iraqi parliment and votes to force allied troops out of Iraq.

Sound familiar? Yes,it does. It is called propaganda, and the enemy is learning to use it to full effect, and the results are not at all laughable.


First of all, I find the very notion of an "anti-war lobby" laughable. It's just like the "homo****** agenda" boogeyman. The antiwar movement is, quite regrettably, in shambles. If you mean the people who are opposed to the continuation of the war in Iraq, that "lobby" consists of more than half the US population.

Secondly, the story about the vote in the Iraqi parliament is, as far as I have been able to make our, fact. Simply calling it propaganda doesn't cut it. Do you have any proof that it's not factually correct? The guy who wrote the article is a respected Iraqi blogger, and I've found the same resolution referenced on different websites (although admittedly not those of major media publications).

[8thidpathfinderpower]

First of all, I find the very notion of an "anti-war lobby" laughable. It's just like the "homo****** agenda" boogeyman. The antiwar movement is, quite regrettably, in shambles. If you mean the people who are opposed to the continuation of the war in Iraq, that "lobby" consists of more than half the US population.

Secondly, the story about the vote in the Iraqi parliament is, as far as I have been able to make our, fact. Simply calling it propaganda doesn't cut it. Do you have any proof that it's not factually correct? The guy who wrote the article is a respected Iraqi blogger, and I've found the same resolution referenced on different websites (although admittedly not those of major media publications).

Like I said....do not believe everything you hear.......

[ElHombre]

We need to ramp up the propaganda on our side. Propaganda is more important on our side than theirs, because no one gets to vote the Taliban or the Insurgents out of office. Public opinion is critical.

US propaganda efforts have been in full swing for years> It has a problem, though. US propaganda has to have some basis in reality.

And it doesn't.

[budgie]

Last nights NBC nightly news did a segment on fake messages and videos that are being made by Iraqi insurgent groups, and Al Queda...and the anti-war lobby, how small they are, are lapping this stuff up like puppies at feeding time. And the latest story I have seen today,deals with the Iraqi parliment and votes to force allied troops out of Iraq.

Sound familiar? Yes,it does. It is called propaganda, and the enemy is learning to use it to full effect, and the results are not at all laughable.



I don't doubt that such attempts are being made by The Enemy (TM) but this post looks like another attempt to conflate the anti-war movement with al Qaeda. The fact is there are stories of disaffected servicemen coming out of Iraq and there is dissatisfaction in the Iraqi parliament with the continued presence of coalition troops. These reports appear in reputable news sources as well and cannot all be instantly dismissed just because you say it sounds like a terrorist plot.

[Calanen]

US propaganda efforts have been in full swing for years> It has a problem, though. US propaganda has to have some basis in reality.

And it doesn't.

I dont think so. We dont even come close to putting the number of vids on Youtube that the terrorists do.

They get slammed in every damn battle they have, lost countless more than the US has - and you think we have 'no basis in reality' to inform about what we are doing. Instead, we let Al Quada inform the youtube masses. And regrettably, many people from within the West believe their propaganda.

Like Vietnam, this war will be won or lost by the perception of the public.

[8thidpathfinderpower]

I don't doubt that such attempts are being made by The Enemy (TM) but this post looks like another attempt to conflate the anti-war movement with al Qaeda. The fact is there are stories of disaffected servicemen coming out of Iraq and there is dissatisfaction in the Iraqi parliament with the continued presence of coalition troops. These reports appear in reputable news sources as well and cannot all be instantly dismissed just because you say it sounds like a terrorist plot.

As I said before...do not believe everything you hear..especially if it pertains to dis-satisfied parlimentary membersin Iraq,and US Soldiers...especially, if it appears on "more than one" so called news site. And do not trust your news stories, especially if they seem to be "preaching to the chorus".

Alot of the stuff being propagated through out the media, is like I said, either fabricated, or half-truths told, especially when it comes from Al Jazzera, or other news networks that cater to sensationalistic claims published by insurgent groups, or Al Queda themselfs.

I just found the story that was done by NBC news,to be facinating, not only because it was being allowed to be broad cast by the US Government, but because it really stated a well known fact since the dawn of history...that propaganda, is being used by bothsides, in an effort to win the hearts and minds of the nation as a whole.


Please note...it is not that often that the US mainstream media reports news items pertaining to the propaganda war being conducted, by both sides, and hinting at the effectiveness of such itemsin the news.

[budgie]

Like Vietnam, this war will be won or lost by the perception of the public.

The typical right wing response since Vietnam. Everyone is to blame but the ones who started the conflict. It's the media's fault, the hippies, the anti-war 'movement', enemy sympathizers. Now what? The Public? What next a GWOP?

There's a good chance that this war was lost before it was started - by the people who started it. This one rests with the politicians, not with the much maligned 'Public' who you seem to think are just another enemy faction.

[Hollis]

The typical right wing response since Vietnam. Everyone is to blame but the ones who started the conflict. It's the media's fault, the hippies, the anti-war 'movement', enemy sympathizers. Now what? The Public? What next a GWOP?

There's a good chance that this war was lost before it was started - by the people who started it. This one rests with the politicians, not with the much maligned 'Public' who you seem to think are just another enemy faction.


Well, your responce is consistant with your previous responces. I think you prove 8th ID points.

[ElHombre]

I dont think so. We dont even come close to putting the number of vids on Youtube that the terrorists do.

They get slammed in every damn battle they have, lost countless more than the US has - and you think we have 'no basis in reality' to inform about what we are doing. Instead, we let Al Quada inform the youtube masses. And regrettably, many people from within the West believe their propaganda.

You want to know how many Americans get their information on Iraq from AQ-based sources? None. We get it from the media, the troops, folks who were right from the beginning about what a dumb idea invading Iraq was, etc...


Like Vietnam, this war will be won or lost by the perception of the public.

And the public has become quite perceptive. 2/3s of Americans now realize that invading Iraq was a mistake and the only reason we're still there is becaise those who got us into this mess have a pathological inability to admit error. The gov't got us into this mess and now refuse to get us out.

[8thidpathfinderpower]

You want to know how many Americans get their information on Iraq from AQ-based sources? None. We get it from the media, the troops, folks who were right from the beginning about what a dumb idea invading Iraq was, etc...



And the public has become quite perceptive. 2/3s of Americans now realize that invading Iraq was a mistake and the only reason we're still there is becaise those who got us into this mess have a pathological inability to admit error. The gov't got us into this mess and now refuse to get us out.


If people here has mistaken this thread for an endorsement of the anti-anti-war lobby,I apologize.

But,a couple of the responses have reinforced my point. And, to counter one statement about the observations made on Al Jazzera, yes, some people in the anti-war protesters orginizations and orginizers of peace marches and ralleys do moniter Al Jazzera, along with other media outlets to get their latest basis for their claims against american involvement in Iraq, and Afghanistan.

The point, since the thread was posted, was to start a discussion about the effectiveness of propaganda being used by both sides, and the effectivness of the enemy propaganda on the american government and public, and its effects on the american will to fight a prolonged war in Iraq.

Since Vietnam, the media has either been the making point or breaking point of american involment and forigen policy through out the world, especially recently during the GWOT. And,as I stated before, a couple of the posts here on this thread, have driven home the point of the effectivness of propaganda that is being targeted towards different groups, in effect to win hearts and minds to further causes of the insurgent groups, that the USA is currently engaged in combat with, and the governments own agenda to continue the fight to support the GWOT, and the war in Iraq.

And I will say it again...do not believe every story that is put out there....it is not always what it seems.

[budgie]

Well, your responce is consistant with your previous responces. I think you prove 8th ID points.

What, that I've succumbed to enemy propaganda? I thought the war was a dumb idea from the start, so I guess the insurgents got to me really early didn't they?

All it 'proves' is that those who supported this ill-advised military adventure from the start, and who continue to support every new iteration of it from 'stay the course' to the latest 'surge' have already decided that anyone who disagreed with their point of view is on the side of 'The Enemy' TM.