Air assault on Marnehuizen video

[Fearless-Falcon]

This is a off a Dutch kids TV show. In this vid you can see soldiers of the Dutch 11th Air Mobile Brigade assaulting the Urban warfare complex in the north of the Netherlands.

Pics and info about Marnehuizen:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11114&highlight=marnehuizen

The Video:
http://www.grenadiers.tk (go to Beeldmateriaal and click on the one that says Willem Wever)
The first few minutes is a lot of talking but after 3 to 4 minutes you will see the action

[Dennis G]

yeah that was a cool video

[Dutchman2]

It looks that they did it specialy for that little girl :D . Last time I visit Marnehuizen, there where only 5 or 6 houses, now they changed it into a huge village. BTW, how old was that video? The jused the MAG a front line MG (ofcourse not a bad choise woot !), they replaced it for the minimi I thought. Or did they replace the Minimi for the MAG again???

Anyway, cool pic. i never saw a video of Marnehuizen, only a few pic's.

Greets,

Roger

[Fearless-Falcon]

That video is from 2000 I think (don't know for sure)

Im not yet in the Military and no expert but I think they still use the MAG in frontline duties cause it has more firepower than the Minimi. Every infantry group of 9 man has 2 Minimi gunners and they walk allong with the others soldiers to secure the buildings and streets. And the MAG gunner teams will follow the group from a distance to lay cover fire. The MAG gunners also set up MG post inside a conquered building while the other soldiers move on. Like the U.S. Army also uses the M240B (MAG) and the M249 SAW (Minimi)

[Dutchman2]

I left the Army in 2000. Our (Dutch) army has alway's very high quality stuff and hardware. Cause we can choose the best from all over the world (Ok, the Diemaco C7 is an exeption ofcourse :D, and putting the Elcan sight on it was also not a relaible choise, but they changed the Elcan from the Minimi to a Aimpoint (Commando's and Marines), but we have alway's our own thoughts: The whole world keeps up- dating 7,62mm MG's, we replace them for 5,56 pussy toy's... But I saw the MAG back on tv in the hands of Marines in Iraq and Commando's in Afghanistan woot , so there is still hope! Hahaha. I asume tha you are goeing to serve the army?

Greets,

Roger

[Fearless-Falcon]

Our (Dutch) army has alway's very high quality stuff and hardware. Cause we can choose the best from all over the world (Ok, the Diemaco C7 is an exeption ofcourse

Oh I thought it was excellent assault rifle. I never fired the thing but the MoD tested many weapons to replace the FN FAL (including Steyer AUG, M16A2 and the Beretta) and Diemaco came out first. Or do you mean that the Diemaco 5,56 is a pussy rifle and you like the 7,62 FN FAl better :D

I agree with you with the Elcan. like i said I never fired the weapon but I have held it in my hands many times and the Elcan sucks! I always had to measure the distance from my eyes to the scope to see something. An iron sight or a aimpoint is mucht better, you can see much more then a (zoomed) scope.


I asume tha you are goeing to serve the army?


Yes, right now im doing the Orientatie Jaar Koninklijke Landmacht (Orientation program for the Army) And will graduate in june.
I applied for the Airmobile Brigade.

Greets,

Corné

[Dutchman2]

Oh I thought it was excellent assault rifle. I never fired the thing but the MoD tested many weapons to replace the FN FAL (including Steyer AUG, M16A2 and the Beretta) and Diemaco came out first. Or do you mean that the Diemaco 5,56 is a pussy rifle and you like the 7,62 FN FAl better :D

I agree with you with the Elcan. I always had to measure the distance from my eyes to the scope to see something. An iron sight or a aimpoint is mucht better, you can see much more then a (zoomed) scope.


No, The Diemaco -and the American original M16- are poorly designed weapons. That they came out first of the test, was because the AUG was to expensive. The dropped the Colt M16also... Canada accepted 2 Fokker airplanes, wich they bought from us. Austria didn't want to buy anything from Holland. The "best 4" where the: C7, M16A2, AUG and the South African R4 (Galil). The test crew selected the AUG as best, but the Goverment found ecconomics and stock rates more important than a fine Aussalt rifle. My sergeant told us during basic training: "When their is war, throw away that C7 and pick up the FAL's from the armory, then we make a chance!"
It won't take to long when we replaced the Elcans I think. It was/ is the most weaken point of the rifle. That also came out during the selections, but the the Army didn't had enough cash to find/ buy a better sight. Now we are paying our dues!
Our Marines will drop that C7/ M16 system in 2007 for the H&K G36. Oh, BTW, H&K modified the M16 system on all his weak points, and turned it into a fine and relaible rifle finaly after 45 years!

In my opinion, I think they must issue each squad with 50% Trijicon ACOG scops, and 50% Aimpoints. And give the FAL a 2004 update, and reissue it back in to the rifle squads. If I had to select a 8 man squad, it will look like this:

-MAG
-FAL
-2 X Minimi
-2 X C8 with AG36 and ACOG
-2 X C8 with Aimpoint.

But I'm only a civilian, it's easy to give advices from my couch :D !

Greets,

Rogier

[SiFiOn]

OK, here I go:

Nowadays the Netherlands Army is testing some reflex sights. These are the three being tested as we speak:

Trijicon, EOTech and the Aimpoint CompM2:

Trijicon:
http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/438_1084010248_trijicon.jpg

EOTech:
http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/438_1084010269_eotech2.jpg

Aimpoint CompM2:
http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/438_1084010323_aimpointcompm2.jpg

Personally, I have no problems with the Elcan. I have also fired the FN FAL wich also is a great rifle to fire. But a C7(A1) is shorter and lighter, which makes it easier to handle, especially in urban terrain. And when you zero your Elcan very precisly, it is a great optical sight in my opinion.

They switched from the FN FAL (calibre 7.62mm) to the C7 series (5.56mm) to comply to the NATO standard of ammo with the caliber of 5.56x45mm. This was a decision due to logistical reasons. It takes a lot more effort to transport a billion 7.62mm bullets compared to the 5.56mm types, they figured out after Desert Storm, where logistics where a hot issue due to the enourmous movement over long distances in the manouvre warfare displayed by the allied forces.

The Elcan sight has the great advantage that it has a magnification of 3.4, the reflex sights have no magnification at all. Also an advantage of the Elcan sight is that it can be used to measure distances (not precisly, but effective enough) , the reflex sights can't be used in this way.
The reflex sights also do have advatages compared to the Elcan. When you use a reflex sight, you can open fire even more accurate and even faster compared to optical sights. It also spares ammo in this way.
It is not said that the reflex sights will replace the Elcan sight, it is also possible to use them both in a section of infantry.

[SiFiOn]

Btw, this is the direct link to the video:

http://cgi.omroep.nl/cgi-bin/streams?/ncrv/dynam/willemwever/ZghkftrGG.ra

Have fun!

[benny5405]

i want to ask Fearless-Falcon where can i buy the vest which one like the British para vest that Dutch military issue , and i want to ask the dutch use M4 is it made by Canadian Diamond C8 ?

[SiFiOn]

i want to ask Fearless-Falcon where can i buy the vest which one like the British para vest that Dutch military issue , and i want to ask the dutch use M4 is it made by Canadian Diamond C8 ?

It is a Diemaco C8 or C8A1

Check this for C8A1

http://images.google.nl/imgres?imgurl=www.the22ndsas.com/readme/c8.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.the22ndsas.com/readme/c8ft.html&h=120&w=320&sz=10&tbnid=ytD8B43oikEJ:&tbnh=42&tbnw=112&start=10&prev=/images%3Fq%3DDiemaco%2BC8%26hl%3Dnl%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8

and this for C8:

http://images.google.nl/imgres?imgurl=www.diemaco.com/images/sal-c8.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.diemaco.com/sal-carbine%2520C8.htm&h=248&w=500&sz=48&tbnid=mOPE7yWB7H8J:&tbnh=62&tbnw=125&start=3&prev=/images%3Fq%3DDiemaco%2BC8%26hl%3Dnl%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8

and here a pic of a C8A1 fitted with a Ring sight to fire the AG36(NL) underslung. (Obvoiously, the underslung is not fitted now.)

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/438_1082715278_dsc00247-1.jpg

[benny5405]

i want to ask Fearless-Falcon where can i buy the vest which one like the British para vest that Dutch military issue , and i want to ask the dutch use M4 is it made by Canadian Diamond C8 ?

It is a Diemaco C8 or C8A1

Check this for C8A1

http://images.google.nl/imgres?imgurl=www.the22ndsas.com/readme/c8.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.the22ndsas.com/readme/c8ft.html&h=120&w=320&sz=10&tbnid=ytD8B43oikEJ:&tbnh=42&tbnw=112&start=10&prev=/images%3Fq%3DDiemaco%2BC8%26hl%3Dnl%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8

and this for C8:

http://images.google.nl/imgres?imgurl=www.diemaco.com/images/sal-c8.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.diemaco.com/sal-carbine%2520C8.htm&h=248&w=500&sz=48&tbnid=mOPE7yWB7H8J:&tbnh=62&tbnw=125&start=3&prev=/images%3Fq%3DDiemaco%2BC8%26hl%3Dnl%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8

and here a pic of a C8A1 fitted with a Ring sight to fire the AG36(NL) underslung. (Obvoiously, the underslung is not fitted now.)

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/438_1082715278_dsc00247-1.jpg


why i saw some photo , Dutch force C8a1 fire head are different ?

[Sabre]

The british 'C8' is known as the L119A1 and has a heavier, 8-twist barrel on it. As a result it probably has a slightly different flash supressor on it.

Also, UK issue 'deimacos' are fitted with a US x4 sight (not sure of the name, but it has a rangefinder graticule scale with varying width horizontal lines that denote the width of a man at 100m intervals)

The UGL fitted to them has its own integral sight which is a crude plastic 'pop up' one.

The sight rail and handguard rails are also different.

[Dutchman2]

Fire head? Do you mean the flash supressor? Front of the barrel? The picture of the Dutch C8A1 is issued with a dust cap on the barrel. Proberly that's what you see. That optic/ reflex sight for the underslung works very accurate! Much more than the US M203 version.

The difference between the Elcan (or any other optical scope with magnification) and a reflex scope are so large, that they can't be compaired. A reflex scope works the best on short distances. Because it hasn't magnification, you can keep both eyes open to check the erea.

I think the best scope for a assault rifle at this time, is the Trijicon ACOG (In use and combat proven by the Israelies and the US forces in Iraq and A-stan). I still think that the Elcan is crap, and I'm not the only one. Well, I think the whole Diemaco/ M16 series are crap though :roll: . That's why the Dutch marines will adopt the G36 in 2007. Heckler&Koch are the first onces that made the M16 system durable and relaible after 40 years! The M16 is accurate though, and a fine rifle for target shooting, but not a good combat rifle. The Dutch tested the Styer AUG as best rifle, but it was unfortunatly too expensive for us :| .

I saw that they are testing with other scopes on the Minimi as well (wich also holds a Elcan). I saw by TNO (Dutch test centrum) that the Aimpoint was tested as proberly replacement.

Greets,

Roger

[SiFiOn]

@ Dutchman: watch what I wrote down (above) regarding the testing of new reflex sights ;)

[benny5405]

Fire head? Do you mean the flash supressor? Front of the barrel? The picture of the Dutch C8A1 is issued with a dust cap on the barrel. Proberly that's what you see. That optic/ reflex sight for the underslung works very accurate! Much more than the US M203 version.


You mean the flash supressor which is not any hole on it is issued by Dutch Military ? why they need to disign it ? for what reason ? but they sometimes use the ordinary flash supressor ....

C8 with RIS . this gun handle is removeable ?