Tony Blair has turned Britain into a land where we are all prisoners

[Geezah]

Even George Orwell would be shocked. He described the sinister machinations of a totalitarian police state in his novel, 1984, and laid bare the danger of eroding our basic civil liberties, including the right to freedom of speech and the right to privacy.

Although he famously coined the phrase 'Big Brother is watching you', even Orwell cannot have foreseen just how prescient those words would prove to be.

Today, in Tony Blair's Britain - which I naively voted into power ten years ago - we have witnessed a breath-taking erosion of civil liberties.

The truth is we are fast becoming an Orwellian state, our every movement watched, our behaviour monitored, and our freedoms curtailed.

Between May 1997 and August 2006, New Labour created 3,023 new criminal offences - taking in everything from a law against Polish potatoes (the Polish Potatoes Order 2004) to one which made the creation of a nuclear explosion in Britain officially illegal.

Then there has been the incredible number of CCTV cameras - a total of 4.2 million, more than in the rest of Europe put together.

And, yesterday, we learnt that the Government has agreed to let the EU have automatic access to databases of DNA (containing samples of people's hair, sperm or fingernails) in order to help track down criminals, even though many thousands of those on record are totally innocent

How did all this happen? Who allowed it? To try to answer these questions, I have made a film, Talking Liberties, about the attack on our freedoms.

I uncovered a disturbing roll call of ancient basic rights which have been systematically destroyed in the self- serving climate of fear this government has perpetuated since the 9/11 attack.

First there was the Act which banned the age- old right of protest within half-a-mile of Parliament without special police authorisation.

And who can forget Walter Wolfgang, the pensioner who was dragged out of the Labour Party Conference for daring to heckle the Home Secretary? He was detained under the Terrorism Act 2000, which gives the police unprecedented stop and search powers.

In 2005 alone, this law was used to stop 35,000 people - none of whom was a terrorist.

But this is only the thin end of the wedge - our civil liberties, enshrined in British law since the Magna Carta, are being whittled away.

There has been an unprecedented shift of power away from the individual towards the state - but now this power is being used not to defeat terrorism, but to keep tabs on ordinary citizens. As well as a raft of repressive anti-terror legislation, there are the more insidious infringements of our freedom and privacy.

We will soon see the introduction of the vast National Identity Register, linking all databases such as the DNA database to which the EU will soon have access.

The tentacles of these networks will intertwine until they form a vast state surveillance mechanism, which can track every detail of your life: what books you borrowed from the library as a student, your ****** health, your DNA profile, your spending and your whereabouts at any given moment in time.

Ministers are even creating a children's database, which will record truancy, diet, and medical history.

And, of course, ID cards will be issued in 2009 - to be used every time we carry out routine tasks such as visiting the dentist. Soon, biometric data - your iris scan, fingerprints and DNA, will help to identify you further.

And, all the time, there are those CCTV cameras - 20 per cent of the global total, even though Britain only has 0.2 per cent of the world's population.

New Labour has an absolute obsession with these devices. Soon, more sophisticated cameras will be able to recognise your face and the information matched to one of the national databases.

All cars will eventually be fitted with a GPS chip, officially to simplify road tax payments but they will also allow government agencies to track every vehicle in the country.

There are, of course, more alarming implications to being constantly monitored - as Orwell understood. Soon, we will be living in an open-air prison.

Some may ask: why does all this matter? The answer is that to surrender our identity and privacy so comprehensively is to give up something we will never get back.

Although New Labour says its mania for data-gathering is all part of its plan to protect us, there's no guarantee that future governments (who will be inheriting a nationwide surveillance machine and the National Identity Register) won't use it to more malign ends.

Totalitarian regimes have, after all, always collected information on their citizens. Hitler pioneered the use of ID cards as a means of repression. The Belgians left Rwanda with a bloody legacy by implementing an ID card system which divided the population into Hutu and Tutsi.

When the 1994 genocide began, these cards proved a device for horrific ethnic cleansing, with one million people dying in 100 days. The Stasi secret police in Soviet East Germany kept millions of files in order to keep track of everyone in the country.

Of course these examples are the extremes - but basic liberties such as privacy and free speech have been hard-won over centuries and history shows that we should not allow them to be brushed aside.

This shift away from individual freedom towards state power has happened slowly, and almost without us noticing.

Like so many others, I was proud to put a cross against the box next to New Labour in 1997 as a first-time voter. But now I have become shocked at the vast swathe of new laws which had been introduced, most of them in response to terrorism.

We are told that this is all for the good - these laws, and the surveillance cameras and ID cards will stop terrorists. Is that the case? Sadly not.

The London bombers carried ID and were observed on CCTV - of course it did not stop them committing their terrible crime.

Intelligence experts say that most information leading to genuine breakthroughs come from informants, not through random tracking or surveillance of the general population.

In any case, liberty and security aren't balanced on some delicate equilibrium, as John Reid, the Home Secretary, and Tony Blair would have us believe. History has shown us that it is precisely when you undermine people's basic rights that they mobilise towards radical groups.

After all, one of the greatest recruiters for the IRA in Northern Ireland was the policy of internment, under which people were imprisoned without trial. Have we learnt nothing from our past?

Stop and search laws applied to Britain's Muslim communities will simply polarise those groups. Instead, we need them to help us protect the country from terrorism.

It's not all doom and gloom, of course - as I hope my film reflects. The sheer absurdity of the bewildering array of idiotic new laws has given us an abundance of bizarre and hilarious situations for our documentary.

But behind this dark comedy is something much more disturbing. Faced with the threat of terrorism, the Government has told us that we must lay down our freedoms for our lives.

Perhaps it has forgotten the millions of people from past generations who have laid down their lives for our freedom. I think we owe it to those people to turn this tide.

Link (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=461611&in_page_id=1770)

Been saying all along :(

[SOG]

wtf? thats some crazy sh!t. some of that is nearly unbelievable its so ridiculous.

[ltrowley]

I was on a balcony in a pub in Wimbledon a few years back and a mounted cctv on the balcony edge turned right around and stared at my girlfriend's chest.

true story, ridiculous number of those things in london.

[SOG]

does anyone in the UK care or is it not really an issue? some of this seems downright creepy (cameras) to downright insane (tracking chips and cards). protests? organizations? anything? i mean really, this should be huge news. then again londoners always seemed very low key.

[ltrowley]

i guess its not realy an issue, i mean, if your not performing criminal acts..what do you have to worry about

[Hawkeye4077]

I don't know about England's rights regarding privacy but here in America we don't have a right to privacy yet everyone somehow thinks we do. (Just like how everyone thinks separation of church and state is in the Constitution) The only right to privacy we have and ever should be allowed is the inside of our heads, and maybe that in and of itself is too much.

[Dasein]

I don't know about England's rights regarding privacy but here in America we don't have a right to privacy yet everyone somehow thinks we do. (Just like how everyone thinks separation of church and state is in the Constitution) The only right to privacy we have and ever should be allowed is the inside of our heads, and maybe that in and of itself is too much.

The Constitution does not define the rights of citizens, but only provides restrictions upon the government, so one cannot say that because a right is not specifically codified in the Consittution that it does not exist.

The Supreme Court has ruled multiple times that we do have a right to privacy, so under US law, such a right does currently exist.

[Hawkeye4077]

Bill of RIGHTS doesn't define rights of citizens? Right to free speech? Right to free press? Right to bear arms?

[Dasein]

Bill of RIGHTS doesn't define rights of citizens? Right to free speech? Right to free press? Right to bear arms?

Nope, the Bill of Rights primarily places restrictions on the government, prohibiting them from infringing upon pre-existing rights.

[MajorTom]

http://www.ukuleleman.net/uploaded_images/V%20for%20Vendetta-751826.jpg

[Lazy Lob]

Just got back from one European country and going to another in the next 10 days or so. No requirements for travel on the first trip and all of a sudden new laws have kicked in and I’ve had to supply a stack of personal details that will be logged and then forwarded to the other country’s police. Talk about tagging………….for fecks sake.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

It's all part of ****(TM)

Gotta keep the septics military industrial complex happy you know.:roll:

[Hydro]

does anyone in the UK care or is it not really an issue? some of this seems downright creepy (cameras) to downright insane (tracking chips and cards). protests? organizations? anything? i mean really, this should be huge news. then again londoners always seemed very low key.


Not a great deal of people like these ideas. But they'll do it anyway...you get used to being ignored by the Government here....

[martinexsquaddie]

hang on
I hav'nt got a free playstation free laptop free food free OU course and lawyers allowing me to sue for trival reasons :)
guess I'm not a prisoner then
freedom sucks :)

[Lazy Lob]

Not a great deal of people like these ideas. But they'll do it anyway...you get used to being ignored by the Government here....

These cads we call politicians just take advantage of our damned good manners and circumspect demeanour. So I suppose we deserve what we get.

[Hydro]

These cads we call politicians just take advantage of our damned good manners and circumspect demeanour. So I suppose we deserve what we get.



I've, errrr, *cough* got a few hundred kegs of gunpowder downstairs...if you're interested....

[Lazy Lob]

I've, errrr, *cough* got a few hundred kegs of gunpowder downstairs...if you're interested....

I'm off to rent a cellar.

[getl0st]

Everyone needs to microwave their ID cards when they get them and then bitterly complain that they don't work.

[Lazuris]

I absolutely love the English but I got to admit the Brits did it to themselves. Once the rolled over and allowed the government to confiscate their guns and take away their right to defend themselves, from themselves, they opened the door to more government control.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

I absolutely love the English but I got to admit the Brits did it to themselves. Once the rolled over and allowed the government to confiscate their guns and take away their right to defend themselves, from themselves, they opened the door to more government control.

Oh purleez :roll:

This has got nothing to do with guns.
Less than 1 in 1000 of the British population owned a handgun prior to the 1997 ban. They are and always were an irrelevance in British politics.

[Lov3ll]

I absolutely love the English but I got to admit the Brits did it to themselves. Once the rolled over and allowed the government to confiscate their guns and take away their right to defend themselves, from themselves, they opened the door to more government control.

If we wanted guns that bad then we'd get them, but then what? get mowed down by the British army, so19? that would only give them an even bigger excuse to track us, we can't help that all of our politicians are a bunch of ****s, the main 2 partys are Labour and Conservative and theirs no difference between the 2. :|

[getl0st]

I'm amazed, we fought the Nazi's in WWII, and now the US, UK and Australia are turning into fascist states.

There is something very wrong with this picture...

[Lokos]

Australia

How in the hell do you figure that?

I'd rather you didn't lump Australia in with anybody. We're an independent nation under the Common law, and the rights of the citizen are protected in Victoria by a Bill, but are implied by the Commonwealth Constitution itself. I refer you to s 109 as an example. Davis v Commonwealth is a fine example of the judiciary actually acting under the doctrine of the separation of powers, and curtailing legislation that threatened the implied freedom of political communication.

The government did create expanded terror law powers for the police - but I've never seen the average Joe bear any sort of discomfort, let alone injustice, due to these laws.

Lokos

[getl0st]

The government did create expanded terror law powers for the police - but I've never seen the average Joe bear any sort of discomfort, let alone injustice, due to these laws.


Yet...

The Howard government decided to drop the National ID card due to it's unpopularity prior to the next election, if he win's the next election, he'll be pushing it back up to the top of the agenda.

These guys have all got the same agenda, and the agenda is to erode our civil liberties under the guise of fighting Terrorism.

The next step in the process is a massive housing/stock market crash, just when everyone is over their heads in debt and most vulnerable, this is designed to wipe out the wealth of the poor and middle classes which then suppresses the resolve of the population to fight against the continual encroachment of our privacy and liberty's.

[Geezah]

does anyone in the UK care or is it not really an issue? some of this seems downright creepy (cameras) to downright insane (tracking chips and cards). protests? organizations? anything? i mean really, this should be huge news. then again londoners always seemed very low key.

I would say for most it's not an issue because it's New Labour that are pushing this agenda, now if it were the Tories, I'm guessing it would be a different matter.
Last time I remember a big uproar over the Governments involvement in individual lives was the Poll Tax Riots back in 90.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

I don't agree with all the new laws/all the surveillance going on in the UK...but I do think it's a bit much to lay it at the feet of Tony Blair. IMHO it's the general direction of things in Europe, and will continue going on long after the evil Mr. Blair has departed.

I'd also add that while all the cameras didn't stop the London bombers, it did catch them. That counts for something, no? So I think there's some balance to be found.

Has anybody in British politics announced any kind of an initiative to scale back all this stuff? If not, then it would seem like they of a single mind that this kind of draconian oversight is necessary to maintain control of the society that's been created there. I don't go in for tinfoil hat conspiracy theories where sinister forces plot domination just becasue they can - it seems more likely that they're simply honest public servants doing what they think is right/necessary, no?

[getl0st]

I don't agree with all the new laws/all the surveillance going on in the UK...but I do think it's a bit much to lay it at the feet of Tony Blair. IMHO it's the general direction of things in Europe, and will continue going on long after the evil Mr. Blair has departed.

I'd also add that while all the cameras didn't stop the London bombers, it did catch them. That counts for something, no? So I think there's some balance to be found.

Has anybody in British politics announced any kind of an initiative to scale back all this stuff? If not, then it would seem like they of a single mind that this kind of draconian oversight is necessary to maintain control of the society that's been created there. I don't go in for tinfoil hat conspiracy theories where sinister forces plot domination just becasue they can - it seems more likely that they're simply honest public servants doing what they think is right/necessary, no?

2Sheds,

I was really ambivilent to all this conspiracy stuff as well, but I did my research from a completely different angle to most. My research started with money.

Once you understand how money creation, manipulation etc fit's into the whole picture, then you go 'oh my f^cking god'.

And the worst thing is, we are all generally prepared to give others the benefit of the doubt, but there are some people in this world who should never be given the benefit of the doubt. But by giving these people the benefit of the doubt, we facilite them them getting away with their crimes against humanity.

The real enemy isn't in Iraq or Afghanistan, the real enemy are the central bankers and the politicians who sell their souls in their greedy grab for power and wealth.

2.2 million Americans got suckered into buying over-priced property, with exotic home loans, at rediculously low interest rates. This wasn't an accident. Soon with the combined crash of the US housing market, US dollar and stock market, most of the average American's wealth is going to be wiped out.

The question everyone needs to ask themselves is, who benefits the most from this happening? I assure you it isn't the poor or middle classes of America.

[Bitogno]

I've been living in England for about one year now and I don't feel at all prisonner.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

Iit seems more likely that they're simply honest public servants doing what they think is right/necessary, no?

Honest public servants Ho Ho Ho!

How naive are you? :roll:

[BugHunt]

Has anybody in British politics announced any kind of an initiative to scale back all this stuff? If not, then it would seem like they of a single mind that this kind of draconian oversight is necessary to maintain control of the society that's been created there. I don't go in for tinfoil hat conspiracy theories where sinister forces plot domination just becasue they can - it seems more likely that they're simply honest public servants doing what they think is right/necessary, no?


Wtf are you going on about man?

That paragraph has so many internal contradictions....

On the one hand there honest public civil servants - creating some dark society which they need draconian measures to keep hold off there power....


Eh? WTF? Glad you said u werent a tinfoil hatter - cause that doesnt sound like one to me guv! ;)


Didnt we have a perfectly good functioning society before those honest public servants went off and without consultation tied up our police and justice system. Before they traipsed off and invaded iraq and didnt bother finishing in Afghanistan? IE chucking petrol on the flames of radical islam....


Considering theres been recently several chiefs of police standing up and saying there MUST BE a public debate on how far the survelliance goes. Id say most if not all the pressure for this **** comes DIRECTLY from the government.


I could go on but im sure youll come out with "well they took your guns thats it!" or another insightful truism.....

[Lokos]

The next step in the process is a massive housing/stock market crash, just when everyone is over their heads in debt and most vulnerable, this is designed to wipe out the wealth of the poor and middle classes which then suppresses the resolve of the population to fight against the continual encroachment of our privacy and liberty's.

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware today was conspiracy theories day. Do go on.

Lokos

[Lazy Lob]

I've been living in England for about one year now and I don't feel at all prisonner.

I am not a number......I am a free man.


Patrick McGoohan was the dog's bollox.

[SpikeBayonet]

It just goes to show ya' - by and large a "liberal" will trample your rights much faster than a "conservative" will - all in the name of The Common Good.

Imagine if Al Gore had been US president on 9-11...

"Man - my bar-code tatoo is itching again"

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Wtf are you going on about man?

That paragraph has so many internal contradictions....

On the one hand there honest public civil servants - creating some dark society which they need draconian measures to keep hold off there power....


Eh? WTF? Glad you said u werent a tinfoil hatter - cause that doesnt sound like one to me guv! ;)

I'm having some difficulty translating this from the original British. What exactly are you saying? My point is that there is widespread public support for these policies - isn't there? Or are you suggesting that all this just happened while nobody was looking?

You may not agree with all the new laws & cameras etc. but that doesn't automatically mean that their creation was a function of an elite cabal working inside a secret government. I bet you'd find people all around you with opinions contrary to yours...and judging by the actions of your democracy, there's more of them. It doesn't make them right of course.



2.2 million Americans got suckered into buying over-priced property, with exotic home loans, at rediculously low interest rates. This wasn't an accident. Soon with the combined crash of the US housing market, US dollar and stock market, most of the average American's wealth is going to be wiped out.

The question everyone needs to ask themselves is, who benefits the most from this happening? I assure you it isn't the poor or middle classes of America.

People make bad decisions every day, greed has been around forever. I managed to get a home loan at a fixed rate under 5.5%. My parents, on the other hand, when they were my age, got a home loan at nearly 20% - which was the going rate in those days. So I'll take some convincing in order to see myself as a victim.

You're free to view the world through the lens of paranoia and fear (heh heh maybe we should insist on security cameras on bankers at all times), but I won't. Yes, there are scams, there are scumbags, and there is the elite - but that has always been true, and it will always be true. But another thing that's true is that poor people don't buy anything, and don't make or keep anybody rich. Therefore it benefits nobody to purposefully create a society that crashes to the ground. It makes no sense.

[BugHunt]

I'm having some difficulty translating this from the original British. What exactly are you saying? My point is that there is widespread public support for these policies - isn't there?

NO. There isnt really. Straw pole on here - ask any Brits A - if they feel comfortable with the RISING levels of survelliance or B - if they been in any way consulted - heck if theres been any wider political debate.

As ive mentioned theres even been police chiefs speaking out about how they THE POLICE now probably have too powerful and intrusive a survelliance tools.....




Or are you suggesting that all this just happened while nobody was looking?

We looking - but whether we agree or not doesnt seem to have a blind bit of bearing on the situation.



You may not agree with all the new laws & cameras etc. but that doesn't automatically mean that their creation was a function of an elite cabal working inside a secret government. I bet you'd find people all around you with opinions contrary to yours...and judging by the actions of your democracy, there's more of them. It doesn't make them right of course.


Eh? Where did i or any sane poster mention secret government cabals?

Incompotent, thoughtless, stupid without regard for the longterm consequences are much more likely.

Just because a child isnt in a "secert cabal" and is just "being a kid" doesnt mean he should be playing with matches and petrol.

[Hydro]

What exactly are you saying? My point is that there is widespread public support for these policies - isn't there?


Well, it's not as if the Government has actually held any public votes on them...


I'll use ID cards for example; there's a fair bit of opposition to them for various reasons - the tinfoil hat brigade, privacy advocates etc etc. I'm against them purely for the reason that the public sector is (through personal experience) totally incompetent when it comes to IT systems, and I can see many problems with screwed up data, loss of information, information leaks and so on. There's enough opposition to (usually) make those in charge of the project sit up and take note buuuut.....it's going to happen anyway.

I've used this example a few days ago, but it's fairly relevant now - Road pricing. The Govt wants to start charging per mile for the use of certain roads (eventually all of them - this is where the GPS tracking in cars comes from, so that you can be tracked and charged accordingly on the roads that you use). 2 MILLION people signed a petition against this project, not a small number, considering the amount of drivers, general laziness of your average Briton taking a stand etc etc....2 million should be enough to make the Govt do a double take on the matter....buuuuut...(you guessed it)...it's going to happen anyway.




We looking - but whether we agree or not doesnt seem to have a blind bit of bearing on the situation.




That seems to be the way things are going. We can scream and shout until we're blue in the face, but....it's still going to happen.

I'd have a tough time calling any of the Govt "Honest public servants" either...even PM Tony Blair had the Police round at Number 10 because of his alleged involvement in rewarding Labour party donators with Peerages.

As for CCTV, I'm pretty ambivalent towards it...as long as theres no infringement of private space, they are quite useful in bringing about convictions and alerting Police of trouble. You don't really see CCTV outside of busy high streets, public parks, railway stations (private property anyway), bus stations (again, private property). They are pretty much non-existent outside of town centres, which are public spaces anyway.


I wouldn't say we're all prisoners, that's a bit sensationalist. But the problem is, the public are so switched off, even if the PM went on TV and declared martial law tomorrow, they'd suck air in through their teeth and say "Ooooh, that's not good...what time does the football start..? MAUREEN! WHAT TIME DOES THE FOOTBALL START?..."

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Eh? Where did i or any sane poster mention secret government cabals?

Incompotent, thoughtless, stupid without regard for the longterm consequences are much more likely.

Just because a child isnt in a "secert cabal" and is just "being a kid" doesnt mean he should be playing with matches and petrol.

Well your government is a democracy, right? Which means that if the people clearly want nothing to do with all these new laws & security and yet it is forced on them anyway - there's some secretive goings on.

Just for the record - in case I hadn't made it clear - there's no way in hell that I'd want to live under the kind of laws they have in Europe. Even before all this post-911 stuff happened I found their laws oppressive and intrusive. But my point is that I don't find much traction for the argument that it's all being forced on the people from evil outside sources. It's far more likely that there's a silent majority that is pushing for all this stuff. Or have I got your political system all wrong? I'm assuming that your representation in the national legislature works more or less the same way as ours.

I mean - you could make the same argument about the Iraq war in the US. People blabber on all day about how the war is being forced on us, how it's unjust etc. etc. but the fact is that it's fought entirely by volunteers, and most Americans continue to believe we should be there. The minute that a real majority of Americans want us out, we'll be out - it's deceptively simple.

[Lov3ll]

Well your government is a democracy, right? Which means that if the people clearly want nothing to do with all these new laws & security and yet it is forced on them anyway - there's some secretive goings on.

No, theirs no chance of stopping them the only party that would stop all the **** is the Liberal Democrats but their pretty much useless and don't have nearly enough voters, the only way they'll be stopped is if people make a big enough uproar come election time.

[Lazy Lob]

No, theirs no chance of stopping them the only party that would stop all the **** is the Liberal Democrats but their pretty much useless and don't have nearly enough voters, the only way they'll be stopped is if people make a big enough uproar come election time.

You, a Yorkshire lad voting Libdem. What a sad, sad day.

[-Angel-]

Well your government is a democracy, right? Which means that if the people clearly want nothing to do with all these new laws & security and yet it is forced on them anyway - there's some secretive goings on.

Its not really secretive, they hear us, but just don't give a damn.

There is very little that can be done when both the leading parties sound the same and neither listens to the people it governs.

[the39steps]

The Government cries that it needs all these new laws because of the Terrorist Threat. But we've been fighting terrorists for over 30 years now. The IRA have killed far more than any suicide nutter.

So why did we NOT need any of this back then? And why do we need it now? Like the article said, ID cards and CCTV would not have stopped the 7th July bombings.

I'm against ID cards because they will not do a thing to stop crime/terrorism/whatever and also because as someone stated above it will cost WAY over budget and not work properly, if at all. Its just billions upon billions that will be poured down the drain that could have been spent on our troops (who live in shockingly bad accomodation) or on increasing the size of the police (which none of the political parties seem to want to do).

Time to watch V for Vendetta again I think:)

[Lov3ll]

You, a Yorkshire lad voting Libdem. What a sad, sad day.

I'd never vote lib dems, I just find it sad that the only party that opposes all this **** is the worst one, when Labour was supposed to be liberal and Tories conservative and now you can't tell them apart. p-)

[Lazy Lob]

I'd never vote lib dems, I just find it sad that the only party that opposes all this **** is the worst one, when Labour was supposed to be liberal and Tories conservative and now you can't tell them apart. p-)

I quite agree with you there. I do like Nigel Farage (UKIP) as some one who could stir things up, but that's just me.

[Kitsune]

Just for the record - in case I hadn't made it clear - there's no way in hell that I'd want to live under the kind of laws they have in Europe. Even before all this post-911 stuff happened I found their laws oppressive and intrusive.

That is interesting. What laws do you find so oppressive and intrusive? Give us three examples please.

[SOG]

That is interesting. What laws do you find so oppressive and intrusive? Give us three examples please.


New law every 3 hours from Blair
GERRI PEEV POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT

ONE law every three hours has been created during Tony Blair's decade in power - most of it without the full scrutiny of parliament, research published today will reveal.

Over the past ten years, close to 30,000 new laws have been created - an average of 2,685 a year or more than seven a day.

But the Labour government has also increasingly used statutory instruments, rather than acts of parliament, to impose the new flood of legislation.

Some 98 per cent of new laws in the Blair decade were introduced by statutory instrument, allowing less time for debate in parliament than the tabling of a bill.

The revelations - made in a study by legal publisher Sweet & Maxwell - will underline accusations that the Labour government has been obsessed with burdening business with red tape, while weakening parliamentary democracy.

Most of the new laws were created in the areas of employment and criminal law. But the total - which is more than a fifth higher than under the previous ten years of Conservative rule - does not include new laws introduced to abide by European Union regulations.

Len Sealy, a Cambridge University professor of law who carried out the study, said that the EU regulations covered subjects from cross-border insolvency to the importing of bed linen.

"All became law here without our legislators having to lift a finger," he added.

Oliver Heald, the shadow Cabinet Office minister, said making a new law was enough to "grab a cheap headline", but was not the most effective way to run the country.

Meanwhile, a separate study by the Liberal Democrats found that at least 285 English schools are fingerprinting pupils without any government guidance.

The investigation found only a quarter of local education authorities had details about the use of fingerprinting and the government has no idea how many children have their information stored.

http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=871052007

shaping tinfoil hat now.

[Opening Batsman]

Yet...

The Howard government decided to drop the National ID card due to it's unpopularity prior to the next election, if he win's the next election, he'll be pushing it back up to the top of the agenda.

These guys have all got the same agenda, and the agenda is to erode our civil liberties under the guise of fighting Terrorism.

The next step in the process is a massive housing/stock market crash, just when everyone is over their heads in debt and most vulnerable, this is designed to wipe out the wealth of the poor and middle classes which then suppresses the resolve of the population to fight against the continual encroachment of our privacy and liberty's.

That gave me a good laugh.p-)

I can just see John Howard sitting on a throne in Kirribilli House, wearing a black cape and laughing evilly as his grand plan to turn Australia in to a fascist state springs in to action.rofl

[Kilgor]

Yet...

The Howard government decided to drop the National ID card due to it's unpopularity prior to the next election, if he win's the next election, he'll be pushing it back up to the top of the agenda.

These guys have all got the same agenda, and the agenda is to erode our civil liberties under the guise of fighting Terrorism.

The next step in the process is a massive housing/stock market crash, just when everyone is over their heads in debt and most vulnerable, this is designed to wipe out the wealth of the poor and middle classes which then suppresses the resolve of the population to fight against the continual encroachment of our privacy and liberty's.

Maybe your not old enough to remember Bob Hawke also wanted to introduce a national ID card.

[Mailman]

Then there has been the incredible number of CCTV cameras - a total of 4.2 million, more than in the rest of Europe put together. (

And yet where I leave (Canary Wharf) there are no CCTV on the Island and the local police station closes at 8pm every day.

For a police state its so much more relaxed than I expected! :D

Mailman

[oldsoak]

And yet where I leave (Canary Wharf) there are no CCTV on the Island and the local police station closes at 8pm every day.

For a police state its so much more relaxed than I expected! :D

Mailman

...your comments have been recorded and passed on to higher authority....:-P

[DaGreatRV]

i guess its not realy an issue, i mean, if your not performing criminal acts..what do you have to worry about

That is a dangerous way of thinking you know! We should be really carefull about this whole line of reasoning.
Because next people are going to say, "hey, we have all this overwatch, but we can't intervene when something happens", then someone els says "we can do something about that". Then you'll basicly(slowly) decend into a society resembling 'big brother', V for Vendetta, A scanner darkly or the DDR.


*stocks up on tinfoil...

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

It just goes to show ya' - by and large a "liberal" will trample your rights much faster than a "conservative" will - all in the name of The Common Good.

Imagine if Al Gore had been US president on 9-11...

"Man - my bar-code tatoo is itching again"This whole saturation surveillance stuff kicked off with conservatives in office and the reasons behind it were just as our cities and towns were terrorist targets. I certainly don’t feel oppressed and I am sure an American dwelling in Washington DC does not feel oppressed by the heavy surveillance present in that city.

[oldsoak]

This whole saturation surveillance stuff kicked off with conservatives in office and the reasons behind it were just as our cities and towns were terrorist targets. I certainly don’t feel oppressed and I am sure an American dwelling in Washington DC does not feel oppressed by the heavy surveillance present in that city.

-oh shut up, your ruining a great conspiracy....:-P

[the39steps]

Good point. If it weren't for all the CCTV pics of the suicide bombers in london, it would have been a hell of a lot harder to find them and then convict them. The evidence is right there for everyone to see. What I'm against is things like ID cards, which will cost an absolute fortune and would NOT HAVE STOPPED the 7/7 bombers. Imagine how many more coppers we could have for the money about to be wasted.

[Geezah]

Good point. If it weren't for all the CCTV pics of the suicide bombers in london, it would have been a hell of a lot harder to find them and then convict them. The evidence is right there for everyone to see. What I'm against is things like ID cards, which will cost an absolute fortune and would NOT HAVE STOPPED the 7/7 bombers. Imagine how many more coppers we could have for the money about to be wasted.

I know, God knows how we even managed to get by before the days of CCTV:(

[a_very_ex_STAB]

cctv is not really a big deal.
Most of the cameras are in private business premises etc in a bewildering variety of formats and highly variable in quality. They are not networked together but they are useful in identifying perps after a crime has taken place.

The real problem is Neu Arbeit's totalitarian obsession with ID cards (or more precisely the database behind the proposed ID cards)

[Bushranger]

why are so many people worried about ID cards like its going to change the way things operate, if you have a drivers licence, tax number or medicare (NHS) number they already know everything they need to know about you. its just civil libertarians jumping up & down.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

why are so many people worried about ID cards like its going to change the way things operate, if you have a drivers licence, tax number or medicare (NHS) number they already know everything they need to know about you. its just civil libertarians jumping up & down.

Because it centralizes a goldmine of information into one database. The Holy Grail for cybercriminals and/or corrupt cops/government employees.

I take it your not familiar with the British Government's woefully incompetent record in the implementation of major IT projects.

[Bushranger]

Point taken, No im not but done my 2 yrs in the UK & disappointed to see how it has turned out.i wondered sometimes if i was in England or god only knows.Dont get me wrong had a great time all the same but Im Glad my Great grand parents emigrated to OZ.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

Point taken, No im not but done my 2 yrs in the UK & disappointed to see how it has turned out.i wondered sometimes if i was in England or god only knows.

It depends on where you go.