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Aerosoul
06-15-2007, 10:31 PM
Backlash forms against 'zero tolerance' in US schools
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/3769/untitled1xg9.jpg

PROVIDENCE, R.I. - Fifth-graders in California who adorned their mortarboards with tiny toy plastic soldiers this week to support troops in Iraq were forced to cut off their miniature weapons. A Utah boy was suspended for giving his cousin a cold pill prescribed to both students. In Rhode Island, a kindergartner was suspended for bringing a plastic knife to school so he could cut cookies.

It's all part of "zero tolerance" rules, which typically mandate severe punishments for weapons and drug offenses regardless of the circumstances. Lawmakers in several states say the strict policies in schools have resulted in many punishments that lack common sense, and are seeking to loosen the restrictions.

"A machete is not the same as a butter knife. A water gun is not the same as a gun loaded with bullets," said Rhode Island state Sen. Daniel Issa, a former school board member who worries that no-tolerance rules are applied blindly and too rigidly.

Issa sponsored a bill requiring school districts to decide punishments for alcohol, drug and non-firearm weapon violations on a case-by-case basis after weighing the circumstances. It passed the Senate and House and now heads for the governor's desk.

Some have long been aware of the problems of zero tolerance. For the last decade, Mississippi has allowed local school districts to reduce previously mandatory one-year expulsions for violence, weapons and drug offenses.

More recently, Texas lawmakers have also moved to tone down their state's zero-tolerance rules. Utah altered its zero-tolerance policy on drugs so asthmatic students can carry inhalers. The American Bar Association has recommended ending zero-tolerance policies, while the American Psychological Association wants the most draconian codes changed.

"It may be a bit of self-correction that you're beginning to see where the pendulum is coming back," said Kathy Christie, vice president of a research clearinghouse for Education Commission of the States in Denver.

A decade ago, more than three-quarters of public schools surveyed reported adopting some version of a no-tolerance policy, according to the U.S Department of Education.

"Zero tolerance" became a popular political buzzword during the waning days of the Reagan administration's "War On Drugs," and the rules spread rapidly after a series of high-profile school shootings, according to a report issued last year by the American Psychological Association.

A 1997 survey of more than 1,200 public schools by the U.S. Department of Education found that 79 percent had zero-tolerance policies against violence, 88 percent for drugs, 91 percent for weapons and 94 percent for firearms.

Some parents have mixed feelings about zero-tolerance rules. Christine Duckworth, 50, is the mother of an 18-year-old daughter who just graduated Portsmouth High School in Rhode Island, which has a zero-tolerance policy.

Duckworth said she wanted her daughter safe at school, but she said rules must reflect that teenagers make mistakes. "I think there's pretty much always a gray area," she said. "You're dealing with individuals. How can you possibly apply one law to every single person and their circumstances?"

There are some signs that policies could be changing. Texas decided in 2005 that schools can consider students' intent and other mitigating factors before punishing them for any offenses other than those involving firearms, and Rep. Rob Eissler said he wants the weighing of those factors to be mandatory.

"It's hard to legislate common sense," he said. "If we get intent into part of the code, I think we'll be in good shape."

Critics of zero-tolerance rules cite multiple problems. Academic achievement often lags in schools with the highest rates of suspension and expulsion, even when socio-economic factors are taken into consideration, said Cecil Reynolds, chairman of the APA's Zero Tolerance Taskforce. "The kids feel like they're walking on egg shells," he said.

Reynolds also questioned what lessons zero-tolerance rules teach, citing reports that a 10-year-old girl was expelled from a Colorado academy after giving a teacher a small knife her mother placed in her lunchbox.

"What she learned from the school was, 'If something happens and you break a rule, for God's sake, don't tell anybody,'" Reynolds said. "Zero-tolerance policies completely ignore the concept of intent, which is antithetical to the American philosophy of justice."

The principal at Portsmouth High School in Rhode Island — whose mascot is sometimes depicted carrying a rifle — censored a yearbook photo because it showed a student who enjoys medieval reenactments wearing chainmail and holding a sword.

Citing the cost of litigation, the school relented this year and recently published in the yearbook graduate Patrick Agin's senior photo showing him with the sword.

Agin said he understands rules against guns and drugs, but he was perplexed about how school administrators drew distinctions in his case. He never brought the sword to school.

"You can't really have a zero tolerance," he said. "We have track and field. We throw javelins. If you think about it, you can pretty much make anything into a weapon."

Article (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070615/ap_on_re_us/zero_tolerance).

TheBelgian
06-16-2007, 12:00 PM
Wow man, this zero tolerance crap is ridiculous. Sure, its important to watch out for weapons in school and to severly punish armed students, but christ, calm the fck down already and find a more reasonable place to draw the line.

Alan
06-16-2007, 12:38 PM
In fifth grade, just eight months after I came to Canada, I was suspended for bringing an orange coloured, plastic toy gun to school.

That thing couldn't possibly be mistaken for a weapon, and would have a hard time hurting someone even if thrown at a person. It cost about $1.99 at a local dollar store. When the trigger was pressed, it made a funny little click...

and I got suspended for 3 days because of it.

Meanwhile, that school, called R.J. Lang, located in Toronto, Ontario, had serious problem with bullying... which nobody did anything about in the 1.5 years that I studied there.

My friends and I avoided tha 'mean' crowd by sticking together, we were also pretty tough kids, a lot of us immigrants. Other kids weren't so lucky, especially the loner types. The school administration did dquat, despite numerous parent complaints.

But a toy gun from a dollar store that couldn't scare a pidgeon... OH HEAVENS NO!

This **** is just ridiculous.

Violet Fashion by Mindy
06-16-2007, 12:44 PM
Man.

When I was in highschool I used to take a knife to cut my apples at lunch.

http://www.police.wa.gov.au/Services/images/Flick_Knife.jpg

How times have changed. Bare in mind that I grew up in working class/government housing suburb.

SBL
06-16-2007, 12:46 PM
"Cut your apples at lunch"

Sure buddy, whatever you say.p-)

hughdotoh
06-16-2007, 01:40 PM
Once back in grade school, the anti-gun crowd got together with the school administration to talk kids into giving up their "war toys," like toy guns and soldiers and tanks and stuff. The more gullible ones gave them up and there was this bonfire in the campus where they torched the toys, as if burning the toys made the organizers a bit more catholic.

The irony of it is that the kid who turned in the most "war toys" (BTW, also got awarded for it) got jailed for child molestation some 20 years later.

Point of this rant is that kids will be kids and it's up to the parents to make sure they grow up right, and schools shouldn't rub politics into minds so young.

Wylie coyote
06-16-2007, 01:47 PM
Man.

When I was in highschool I used to take a knife to cut my apples at lunch.

hmm... i was unaware people use to name their kids after fruit back in the day.

but with a name like apples. that kid deserved to get cut.

Henry's Fork
06-16-2007, 05:37 PM
It's hard to legislate common sense

Bout says it all.

Zero tolerance is more bolloxs to make the law passer and the sheep who buy it, feel all warm and fuzzy inside than it has to do with reality.

Bia
06-16-2007, 06:08 PM
gotta have tort reform before this issue can be logically addressed.

gotta stop electing career politicians that enable lawyer scumbags behavior before that issue can be logically addressed.

gotta pull our heads out of our arses before that issue can bla bla bla....

PsychoMantis
06-16-2007, 07:23 PM
Since when did "Political Correctness" replace "Common Sense"?

Hsimoorb
06-17-2007, 02:46 AM
A kid at my middle school once got suspended for....I swear to God....pointing his finger and moving his thumb like the hammer of a gun. Just let that sink into your head for a minute.



Since when did "Political Correctness" replace "Common Sense"?


1969 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodstock). It was a crazy time, COINTELPRO was busy tracking down a bunch of fake 'Soviet' spies like MLK, so we missed the chance to erradicate all those wannabe leftists in one swoop. Instead, us real lefties got outbred by those free-love freaks...to this day they constantly make the rest of us liberals look like anti-american fools. So now we've got zero tolerance on plastic silverware. Thanks 60's.

supercontra
06-17-2007, 07:53 AM
...there was this bonfire in the campus where they torched the toys, as if burning the toys made the organizers a bit more catholic.

Reminds me of...
http://instruct1.cit.cornell.edu/courses/his452/Alcohol/28-1124a.gif

zonk
06-17-2007, 11:47 AM
i think we have gone too far with this zero tolerance crap, one little incident and the kids record is scarred, it's a bunch of crap. i always remember the teacher taking my cap guns from me in daycare or like toy swords, taking them also. now they are suspending kids for the same offense and the kid is what 5 or 6...this kid does not know any better, i mean they are having adult standards for children. its ****ing rediculous

PsychoMantis
06-17-2007, 03:05 PM
It wasent a couple of years ago when they let kids duke it out if they have a problem,now even if 2 kids have a problem with each other and they so much as look at each other funny,Suspension (5 days),Fine($500),and a permenant mark on their record.

IraGlacialis
06-17-2007, 03:13 PM
I found this slightly amusing at my middle school (high school was a hell of a lot more lenient).
You say that you are going to puch someone in the face, and you will get a 10 OSS. You actually punch someone in the face, and you get 3 days ISS. The thing is also, the phrases "You are so dead" and "I'll kill you" were thrown around around quite often between kids, but no one lifts a finger (evne when it's within a teacher's earshot).
Learned it the hard way twice in 6th grade.

First time, kid made a few derogatory statements towards me and my friend turned him in for his statements. He turned it around on us that I said that I wish he weren't around and my friend concured (which admittedly, was true). My friend and I got 10 days each and he got 1 day ISS.

Second time, my pencils kept being dissappearing. Later found out that they were being stolen by a kid who sat at my desk when classes got temporarily rotated. I let my tonue slip and said to him if he kept taking my pencils, I'd kill him with a spoon. Got turned in, 10 days with a mandatory trip to a shrink and 6 months probation.

High school was a breath of fresh air after that. Although I am left with the outlook to never turn someone in for harrasing you, especially if that someone has a "better" reputation (ex. footbal player (no offence to any footbal players))

BTW, I also think the whole ****** harrasment stuff has gotten out of hand as well.

BloodyTalon
06-17-2007, 03:19 PM
Don't get me ****ing started with zero tolerance. Because of that and an overly paranoid principal I almost got my arse sent to juvee.

Calanen
06-17-2007, 06:03 PM
This is a bit dated, but its a good example of the idiocy that goes on in zero tolerance schools. Each case needs to be considered on its merits, and dealt with appropriately. Not one size fits all ridiculous punishments.

http://www.smellingthecoffee.com/2006/05/for_the_children.html


LOWER BURRELL, Pa. -- A Lower Burrell school student is facing a three-day suspension for sharing gum with a classmate.

Jolt chewing gum has caffeine and ginseng.

The Lower Burrell school superintendent said consuming and passing out the gum violates the school's drug awareness policy. That's because caffeine is considered a stimulant.
Parents told Channel 11 they did not understand the suspension.

Resident Elizabeth Grombacher said, "I think it's stupid. Everything's getting too politically correct it's so wrong."
"It's probably just like Mountain Dew or something like that. If it's got a lot of caffeine in it and they probably sell the pop at school,” parent Nita Serene said.

Jolt chewing gum is sold over the counter at drug stores and vitamin distributors.

little icebear
06-17-2007, 06:25 PM
Seriously, what is going on over there? :bash:

This whole hysterical "zero tolerance" and "political correctness" crap seems to go outta hand...
The most disturbing cases are when little kids are treated like ***-offenders when they´re caught ´playing doctor´... :roll:

Breakfast in Vegas
06-18-2007, 04:55 PM
America:Paranoialand

Hilbert
06-21-2007, 07:56 PM
Sorry if this is bringing up old topics but I think some of you might find this a little amusing.

About a year ago, one of my freinds was nearly expelled from school for drawing pictures of U.S. Soldiers (American flag patch visible on the arm and everything) carrying rifles on a piece of paper freshly titled "Support Our Troops." These same pieces of paper his family (father currently deployed abroad) would often post in their window and neighborhood freinds would do the same.

Simply amazing.

Just my two cents,
Hildebert

deagle
06-21-2007, 08:34 PM
my only question is whats the policy regarding common sense. sheesh, those edu boards need to find some.