Cheney claims US law doesn't apply to him

[Firetxmi]

Cheney claims US law doesn't apply to him
June 22, 2007

Washington, D.C. - Vice President Cheney's office tried to abolish the National Archives' office after catching him circumventing the system for overseeing classified documents, House Oversight Committee Chairman Henry Waxman reported Thursday.
Vice President Cheney's office tried to abolish the National Archives' office after catching him circumventing the system for overseeing classified documents, House Oversight Committee Chairman Henry Waxman reported Thursday.

According to letters released by the committee, the vice president's office claims it is not an "entity within the executive branch" and was therefore exempt from rules established in a presidential order for the National Archives to oversee classified information.

After receiving repeated requests to comply by the oversight office at the National Archives, and a follow-up request to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales asking that he help resolve the matter, Cheney's office instead retaliated, recommending the National Archives office be disbanded, the Waxman letter said.

William Leonard, head of the National Archives office in question, told the Oversight Committee that Cheney's team attempted to get a provision in the presidential order -- which is currently being revised -- that would have prevented the National Archives from appealing to the attorney general.

House Democratic Caucus Chairman Rahm Emanuel issued the following statement regarding his amendment to cut funding for the Office of the Vice President from the bill that funds the executive branch. The legislation -- the Financial Services and General Government Appropriations bill -- will be considered on the floor of the House of Representatives next week.

"The Vice President has a choice to make. If he believes his legal case, his office has no business being funded as part of the executive branch. However, if he demands executive branch funding he cannot ignore executive branch rules. At the very least, the Vice President should be consistent. This amendment will ensure that the Vice President's funding is consistent with his legal arguments. I have worked closely with my colleagues on this amendment and will continue to pursue this measure in the coming days."

Link:http://alaskareport.com/z46247_cheney_above_the_law.htm

If they are not part of the Executive branch why did they claim executive privilege in order to withhold the energy task force names and protect Scooter Libby?

[nagant_m44]

cough cough SANDY BERGER cough cough

[Mu-Meson]

cough cough SANDY BERGER cough cough

Haha, good one.

[noname]

Not surprising and it furthers the point that regardless of political party, they are nothing but two faced whores who are the most corrupt individuals on the planet.:)

[Durandal]

One of the single worst periods in our government's history.

[Mastermind]

Sadly, very sadly, both parties, both houses of congress, the executive and the judiciary are proven lately and in the last several years, to be complete political asses with little or no regard for the law, the people or the institution of the United States of America or the Constitution it is founded upon. They have found their strength in their own agendas and the support of mega wealthy individuals and corporations. The people, being now dividied into ever smaller special interests and ethnicities have lost their devotion to the nation in exchange for devotion to entertainment, love of circuses, and loyalty to petty concernes. Real news is boring and scary...more fun to pay attention to idiotic blondies who get tossed in jail or have illigitimate childern than listen to droning political warnings and scandals that destroy our governmental institutions...No nation can stand very long once it has abandoned fine principles of conduct, civility and judgement.

This latest arrogance is just another grain of proof in an accumulated pile of proofs that we really have little hope of regaining our rule of law and adherence to constitutional authority.

[evanfitz]

They act like spoiled children who wants everything their way.

Oh wait, they are

[Flamming_Python]

I am the Law!

[Bia]

Darth Cheney...

it's a shame I dont believe in hell.

lol

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Anybody have a link to actual content of Cheney's letter? The story is completely centered on what Waxman claims that Cheney said. If I have to choose, sight unseen, between believing Cheney or Waxman, the nostrilla gorilla comes in a distant 2nd place. Until I've seen the letter unfiltered by Waxman's spin, I'll restrain myself. It's a pity the media doesn't seem to worry about acting with such restraint, since there are now several front page stories out there from CNN to Newsweek - all based completely on the Gospel according to Waxman.

[darkstorm08]

Sadly, very sadly, both parties, both houses of congress, the executive and the judiciary are proven lately and in the last several years, to be complete political asses with little or no regard for the law, the people or the institution of the United States of America or the Constitution it is founded upon. They have found their strength in their own agendas and the support of mega wealthy individuals and corporations. The people, being now dividied into ever smaller special interests and ethnicities have lost their devotion to the nation in exchange for devotion to entertainment, love of circuses, and loyalty to petty concernes. Real news is boring and scary...more fun to pay attention to idiotic blondies who get tossed in jail or have illigitimate childern than listen to droning political warnings and scandals that destroy our governmental institutions...No nation can stand very long once it has abandoned fine principles of conduct, civility and judgement.

This latest arrogance is just another grain of proof in an accumulated pile of proofs that we really have little hope of regaining our rule of law and adherence to constitutional authority.


Second that.

And whats even worse these are the same folks, on all sides, that "we" elected. :bash:

[Kroforit]

Hmm and I remember when many mp.neters were arguing that these problems in our country were only temporary, and there is nothing to worry about. Yea, eventually the "gut feeling" will prove to be the right decision, if only all these problems were caused by smiply going with the "gut"

[darkstorm08]

Hmm and I remember when many mp.neters were arguing that these problems in our country were only temporary, and there is nothing to worry about. Yea, eventually the "gut feeling" will prove to be the right decision, if only all these problems were caused by smiply going with the "gut"


Its nowhere near as bad as it could be. No gut feelings are need thus far. Time will only tell.

[Kroforit]

Time will only tell.

How long have we been saying this?

[darkstorm08]

O about every 4 to 8 years... i would say.

[Kroforit]

O about every 4 to 8 years... i would say.


Right, those bastards Clintons and their ****** shenanigans ruined America.

[Freibier]

Darth Cheney...

it's a shame I dont believe in hell.

lol
roflroflrofl

Oh and Cheney should get a taste of some years in Gitmo


It's a shame that you have such extraordinary crooks in your government

[2Sheds_Jackson]

I managed to track down the source of the story. It's here on the Waxman committee's website -

http://oversight.house.gov/story.asp?ID=1371

Lots of links to irate letters from Waxman condemning the evil sorcerer Cheney - never missing an opportunity to exhume the corpse of the Plame matter while he brow-beats the VP's office....tersely worded notes from the National Archives to the apprentice evil-doer Gonzalez, an unbiased and completely accurate "fact sheet on the VP's efforts to avoid oversight and accountability" that Waxman courteously put together all by himself.

Guess what's not provided by the website...not a single one of the letters from Cheney. I wonder why he'd prefer to only show us what he says Cheney did, rather than what he actually did? I guess we're too stupid to read it ourselves?

[Laworkerbee]

Anybody have a link to actual content of Cheney's letter? The story is completely centered on what Waxman claims that Cheney said. If I have to choose, sight unseen, between believing Cheney or Waxman, the nostrilla gorilla comes in a distant 2nd place. Until I've seen the letter unfiltered by Waxman's spin, I'll restrain myself. It's a pity the media doesn't seem to worry about acting with such restraint, since there are now several front page stories out there from CNN to Newsweek - all based completely on the Gospel according to Waxman.

X2 Waxman is a complete and utter douchebag, I know 2 douchebags who work for him and figure the Fish stinks from the head on down.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

X2 Waxman is a complete and utter douchebag, I know 2 douchebags who work for him and figure the Fish stinks from the head on down.

I'd just really like to see these letters. Hell, I might wind up agreeing with Waxman...but it's kind of hard to throw Cheney under the bus when all we have to go on is heresay from one of his political opponents who has sworn to "get" him.

[Laworkerbee]

I'd just really like to see these letters. Hell, I might wind up agreeing with Waxman...but it's kind of hard to throw Cheney under the bus when all we have to go on is heresay from one of his political opponents who has sworn to "get" him.

I would not hold your breath whilst waiting for that letter to appear.

[INAT]

cough cough SANDY BERGER cough cough


Yeah Good example how dem or republican corruption is alive .
He was seen stuffing documents into his pants and coat and when the National Archives demanded them back he returned a few minor pages and said "honest mistake" when he destroyed the rest.One can say would have hurt his reputation even more.The man is a professional liar.
For this administration Cheneys actions are the norm.Secrets and lies
I cannot believe the American people tolerate this.

[pistol]

I'd just really like to see these letters. Hell, I might wind up agreeing with Waxman...but it's kind of hard to throw Cheney under the bus when all we have to go on is heresay from one of his political opponents who has sworn to "get" him.

Speaking of heresay..where did you get your information that Waxman has "sworn to get" Cheney?



Guess what's not provided by the website...not a single one of the letters from Cheney. I wonder why he'd prefer to only show us what he says Cheney did, rather than what he actually did? I guess we're too stupid to read it ourselves?

And speaking of common sense..why are you giving the benefit of the doubt to VP "last throes"/"greeted as liberators"/"go **** yourself"/I'll shoot you in the face?

I think that the article is misleading. The National Archives wrotes to Cheney twice, and each time he ignored them. Then they wrote to Alberto, and Cheney responded by trying to get rid of the National Archives. There are no letters from Cheney because he doesn't think the law applies to him. I don't think Waxman is claiming that there are any letters from Cheney. Do you deny these allegations?

[Firetxmi]

There are no letters from Cheney because he doesn't think the law applies to him. I don't think Waxman is claiming that there are any letters from Cheney.

And thus the very meat of the argument (problem).

From what I understand there were no letters from Cheney, his reply was trying to get rid of the National Archives.

Its like the Movie store sending me late notices and me not answering them- except for trying to get the movie store closed.

[ElHombre]

And speaking of common sense..why are you giving the benefit of the doubt to VP "last throes"/"greeted as liberators"/"go **** yourself"/I'll shoot you in the face?

Because to do otherwise would mean him having to admit the critics have been right all along. It's a moot point, the WH acknowledged that Cheney's arguement is supported by Bush.

So Cheney thinks he's the 'fourth branch' of gov't. Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a constitutional crisis. Unless someone can show me where in the Constitution that the VP's office is separate from the Executive Branch.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Speaking of heresay..where did you get your information that Waxman has "sworn to get" Cheney?

The man was virtually foaming at the mouth on the run-up to the Plame hearings and special prosecutor. He was giddy with excitement. He now suffers from a rare nostril-based form of impeachus interruptus. Waxman was sitting there suggesting that eventually Rove would also need to resign.



And speaking of common sense..why are you giving the benefit of the doubt to VP "last throes"/"greeted as liberators"/"go **** yourself"/I'll shoot you in the face?

Because he's the VP, we are at war, try as they might over the last 6 years, a group of dedicated professional people have tried every angle, examined every orifice in order to find some traction to show he broke the law, and they have found nothing, and the fact that I understand that disagreeing with a legal policy decision does not make it illegal.



I think that the article is misleading. The National Archives wrotes to Cheney twice, and each time he ignored them. Then they wrote to Alberto, and Cheney responded by trying to get rid of the National Archives. There are no letters from Cheney because he doesn't think the law applies to him. I don't think Waxman is claiming that there are any letters from Cheney. Do you deny these allegations?

Yes, as I understand it that isn't totally correct. Based on Waxman's own letter posted on his site, there is evidently correspondence from the VP's office that we have not been given;



The Oversight Committee has learned that over the objections of the National Archives, you exempted the Office of the Vice President from the presidential executive order that establishes a uniform, goverment-wide system for safeguarding classified national security information.

When? Where? How? Did Cheney yell this exemption out of a bathroom stall?

The National Archives has informed the Committee that your office intervened to block the inspection.

When? Where? How? Did everybody in the VP's office hide under the desk when they heard the inspector coming?

According to a letter that the National Archives sent to your staff in June 2006, you asserted that the Office of the Vice President is not an "entity within the executive branch" and hence is not subject to presidential executive orders.

He's quoting from something. From what? What else does it say? Does it say what Waxman is asserting that it says?

Your office informed the Archives that it was not bound by the executive order applicable to all other executive branch entities and therefore would not permit the Archives to conduct an inspection of the procedures and facilities used by the Office of the Vice President to safeguard classified national security information.

How?


I am suggesting that if what Waxman says is true, that supplying these source documents could only prove Waxman's case. Conversely, if he's withholding them, there's a reason why (i.e. by reading them, even John Q public would quickly realize Waxman was grandstanding).

Yes it certainly would be a crisis if what Waxman would have us believe is actually what has transpired. But since this story is hardly front page news, and nobody really cares to dig into it (besides us apparently) it leads me to believe that the press corps understands this to largely be an example of beltway chest beating.

>>edit - Cheney has not proposed eliminating the National Archives, just an office within the NA...and of course...that's just what Waxman says he has proposed...it would be nice to see the proposal so we could judge for ourselves.

[pistol]

The man was virtually foaming at the mouth on the run-up to the Plame hearings and special prosecutor. He was giddy with excitement. He now suffers from a rare nostril-based form of impeachus interruptus. Waxman was sitting there suggesting that eventually Rove would also need to resign.


What? I think you've hit the nail on the head here. The real issue is Waxman's nose. The rest of your ramblings are sort of nonsensical.



Because he's the VP, we are at war, try as they might over the last 6 years, a group of dedicated professional people have tried every angle, examined every orifice in order to find some traction to show he broke the law, and they have found nothing, and the fact that I understand that disagreeing with a legal policy decision does not make it illegal.


Again, nail on the head...you've hit it! We are at war and it is not an appropriate time to question the legality of the actions of any member of the executive branch...wait..legeslative branch...well whatever branch Cheney decides he is in today...we can't question his actions because then Osama will win! You are totally right about the last 6 years too. The Republican House and Senate, along with the Republican controlled DoJ was obsessed with scrutinizing everything Cheney did to make sure it was Constitutional and within the law. I would list all the investigations to which he was subjected, but really I don't have that kind of time...

[Andrew Chalmers]

Hm... interesting allegations from Waxman - although you folks do realize...

1) If what Waxman alleges Cheney says is true = Cheney says he's not violating the Executive Order 12958/13292 because he's part-legislative.

2) If Waxman is misrepresenting Cheney's claims = Cheney is in violation of Executive Order 12958/13292.

Either way - Cheney's office smells sort of funny. Regardless of one's political views or party affiliations - how many citizens like the idea that the VP can order the secret service to destroy visitor logs so the "civilians" can't learn which industry leaders and lobbyists the VP has been meeting to formulate the administration's energy policies? (On the grounds of executive privilege too -ROFL)

[Jobu]

how many citizens like the idea that the VP can order the secret service to destroy visitor logs so the "civilians" can't learn which industry leaders and lobbyists the VP has been meeting to formulate the administration's energy policies?

I like the idea. I want our executives to be able to get candid advice without every advisor being brought in front of Congress for partisan showboating.

[kamaz]

One of the single worst periods in our government's history.

I am slowly starting to agree with you here. Complete disregard and disrespect for our country's system of checks and balances. Disgraceful.

[Andrew Chalmers]

I like the idea. I want our executives to be able to get candid advice without every advisor being brought in front of Congress for partisan showboating.

So the next time a democratic VP goes into office & hypothetically meets with crooked industry leaders who offer to pay him a few million dollars in post-presidency book deals in exchange for his pledge to "influence" the FCC to make a particular ruling - and there's word of the meeting and corruption - you'll be perfectly OK with the the destruction of records, evidence, etc on the grounds that we need to ensure advisors will give candid advice?

I'm guessing you view the potential fear of an adviser not giving "candid advice" because they might be held accountable (WOW - being held accountable) might somehow hurt the presidency?

[Jobu]

Yes, I think an advisor who holds back information or suggestions could be hurting the presidency.

[Andrew Chalmers]

Yes, I think an advisor who holds back information or suggestions could be hurting the presidency.

So is the executive ever subject to oversight? How about advisers who advise the president to do illegal matters (and the president in good-faith relies on the advice and does something illegal)? Or do you think that if the president does it - then it isn't illegal?

[Freedom-Fries]

Not surprising and it furthers the point that regardless of political party, they are nothing but two faced whores who are the most corrupt individuals on the planet.:)

it's getting so dishonest but political leaders never have to answer

[ElHombre]

Yes, I think an advisor who holds back information or suggestions could be hurting the presidency.

In which case the presidency has chosen the wrong advisor to ask for its opinion. Folks, everyone should have learned this in elementary school, the US is a democracy. That means the better informed the citizens are, the better gov't we get.

I have no doubt that a President Hillary doing something like this would be roasted alive (and deservedly so... :lol:).

[WarriorMonk]

Darth Cheney lol

swings the lightsaber the wrong way and kills Palpatine in Rome...

[Buckeye67]

Folks, everyone should have learned this in elementary school, the US is a Federal Republic.

Fixed it for you.

[INAT]

Hell in a handbasket and all that.Cheney does not answer to the American people
but to the oil companies.

[Mastermind]

Above..very correct. There is absolutely no reason for gasoline to be 3.00 a gallon at the pump except!!!! Back room deals, in which both parties are eager for the high prices...Rats think it helps reduce the emissions as the public are forced to make decisions on higher fule effeciency cars and trucks and the death of the SUV for the common person (the wealthy will continue to ride in safe automobiles, of course)...the Pubies love higher prices because it provokes the argument for drilling in ANWAR and off shore, letting trillions of dollars in leases already held by the big three oil companies....and since the cost of energy (gas, coal, electric etc) is completely connected to the ergs in one gallon of gasoline, the higher the price of refined product the more trillions the energy industry can charge the average citizens for home heating and cooling....it is a gigantic, twisted consortium to simply rob the masses blind...balanced very carefully by the FED to not allow the economy to splinter or fall into depression. If it was not Cheney, it would be some other operative...be he Democrat or Republican. This is primarily why you can not see much of a difference, except for rhetoric, between the parties. You think the people control the politics...they do not...it is the people who control the corporations who control politics...and, of course, that effectively means control stays in the hands of people who are successful and of above average income. All else is crapola and fantasy.

Thus, overall, the way things are in reality is good!