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J-10
06-26-2007, 09:43 AM
http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/229004
Jun 25, 2007 04:30 AM
David Crane

The United States may be about to do something really stupid, which is to launch a trade war with China.

Such a misguided step would do much damage to the world economy and reinforce the view, not only in China but in other emerging market countries, that the United States does not really want them to succeed. Moreover, China would be bound to retaliate.

What's driving the "blame China" crusade in the U.S. Congress is itsgrowing trade deficit with China.

It's true the United States has a huge trade deficit with China. But the actual deficit is seriously overstated since many Chinese exports consist of parts and materials imported from other countries and simply assembled into finished products in China. Chinese value-added, or content, in its exports is only about 25 per cent of their final price.

The real problem the United States has is that it seeks to maximize consumption today and forego savings for the future.

The U.S. financial system encourages families to take the equity out of their homes through new mortgages so they can spend more, or to assume even greater levels of other debt for current consumption. You can't blame the Chinese for that. They are supplying American consumers with products Americans want to buy with this extra money. At the same time, the United States has a massive budget deficit that shows no sign of disappearing.

Americans are fond of lecturing others on how to behave, as they are now doing with China.

But as The Financial Times asked in a recent editorial, "What would Capitol Hill think of a Chinese `get tough' ultimatum, declaring Beijing's patience at an end, requiring immediate action to cap mortgage-interest tax relief and cut public spending, on the pain of sanctions? The reaction would be gibbering, uncomprehending rage. Yet those American policies have seriously destabilizing global implications, just as surely as does China's decision to peg its currency."

Perhaps the biggest issue is the U.S. has yet to come to terms with the reality the world is changing and, in relative terms, it is a declining superpower. In fact, acknowledging we are moving into a different world is a problem for all Western countries, including Canada.

The G-7 nations continue to see these emerging new players as inferiors, rather than as necessary partners in ensuring a peaceful, prosperous and sustainable world in the years ahead.

The recent G-8 meeting in Germany was an example of that outdated approach, with leaders from China, India, Brazil, Mexico and South Africa treated as unqualified to be in the same club.

In a condescending decision, the G-8 leaders did announce they might reconsider this a couple of years from now. But in the meantime, these countries must subject themselves to more lectures on how to run their countries from the rich nations.

Yet the world faces huge changes in the years ahead as countries such as China and India become much more important in terms of size, financial strength and technological capability. The way we attempt to manage or guide the global economy has to reflect the interests of the new countries as well as the old established players.

In 2005, the top five economies in the world were the U.S., Japan, Germany, France and Britain. By 2050, Goldman Sachs estimates, they will be China, United States, India, Brazil and Mexico. What the Americans cannot accept is that at some point they will no longer be number one. But a destructive trade war would not change this.

vinny_121_ND
06-26-2007, 10:08 AM
Who's fault is it? we live in a capitalistic society where only a certan few men want to get seriously rich, and pay their workers cheap and happy about it. How many jobs were lossed to it being outsourced to China? a million?

Hollis
06-26-2007, 12:09 PM
Just take the article at face value. I doubt that Crane has any insider information. He also fails to realize out side of the myth that some common corporation conspiracy is controlling the US, Business in the US is not a simple black and white situation.

By 2050 WHO knows or who can predict. If he has a crystal ball, I would suggest for him buying some lotto tickets and making a few billions. Seems he as also fallen into the concept that the US is runned by a bunch of dunderheads who are still re-living the days of Laissez faire.

2Sheds_Jackson
06-26-2007, 12:16 PM
China's economy is largely America's economy. Who do you think employs all those factories? And sells all that stuff? And buys all that stuff? Take a look at the BNSF railway out of LA - that's China's economy, loaded on flatcars. Anybody fooled into thinking this is US government vs the Chinese government has missed the container ship - this is the corporation vs the consumer. Of course the rich don't want to upset the apple cart - they've moved all their production to a land with virtually no wage, safety, or environmental laws - with labor costs just a fraction of what they were in the US. Hey what's not to like?

Corporate entities raking in money with both hands will use whatever tools they can to stop consumers from pushing back against the continued exodus of manufacturing - including fear, empty threats and rebranded nationalism.

Eventually it will boil down to the fact that this is business, and in business, the customer is always right. And ultimately, who's the customer?

Ordie
06-26-2007, 12:38 PM
The economies of China and the US are tied.
China is more fragile than what we think.

Environmental issues threaten political stability.
Real estate battles between residents and municipalities.
Quality control and oversight of products.
Higher incomes in China creates greater demand for economic transparency within the government.
The state run banking system giving loans without any accountability for default.Moreover, in the next 12 months before the Olympics, China will be the 'goldfish bowl'. Media and NGO's will prod and pick China apart stressing the the good, the bad and the ugly of China.

My advice on China, be careful what you ask for.

Laworkerbee
06-26-2007, 06:41 PM
The recent G-8 meeting in Germany was an example of that outdated approach, with leaders from China, India, Brazil, Mexico and South Africa treated as unqualified to be in the same club.

I totally agree with the author in what I quoted except for the fact that he decided to list Mexico which does not warrant in my opinion such status though I could be wrong.

Flamming_Python
06-26-2007, 07:48 PM
The economies of China and the US are tied.
China is more fragile than what we think.

Environmental issues threaten political stability.
Real estate battles between residents and municipalities.
Quality control and oversight of products.
Higher incomes in China creates greater demand for economic transparency within the government.
The state run banking system giving loans without any accountability for default.Moreover, in the next 12 months before the Olympics, China will be the 'goldfish bowl'. Media and NGO's will prod and pick China apart stressing the the good, the bad and the ugly of China.

My advice on China, be careful what you ask for.

I'll add the increasing discontent of China's rural population to that list.

China being the world's largest economy is nothing new. It was the same back in the 19th centuary, until Britain launched the Opium wars, and China started to decline even more rapidly than before, with everyone wanting to take a chunk out of it.

They paid too much attention to their Culture & Economy back in those days, while neglecting their Military, and it cost them dear.

However, they are a Wise people. Something tells me, they learnt their lesson...

Durandal
06-26-2007, 09:11 PM
I Americans lived within their means none of this would be an issue.

That said, wake me when China as a deep water Navy. Till then *yawn*...

Edit: And doesn't melt down into civil war as the money class develops and a new Mao cleans the country with a bloody mop.

USMC-Congbuster
06-27-2007, 12:40 AM
Everytime I see a "China strong" thread, a little peice of my soul dies.


x2 on the blue water navy comment, until then nothing but target practice for the good ol USN.

Nightsky
06-27-2007, 04:54 AM
erm, what's the stuff with the blue water navy about ? The thread is about Chinese and American economies and a possible TRADE war; as far as I know a trade war is about money and not about blue water navys.

The article itself doesn't contain too many news and China has still quite a way to go to be on par with the west, especially given the extreme gap between rural and urban population, poverty, corruption and mismanagement, which is stil lfar more prevalent than in the west. This might also lead to political instability, which might then damage the economies of China as well as America and Europe. Too tightly interwoven by now.

And now I leave the thread again to the blue navy enthusiasts p-)

Shadowstorm
06-27-2007, 06:24 AM
I totally agree with the author in what I quoted except for the fact that he decided to list Mexico which does not warrant in my opinion such status though I could be wrong.
Mexico is a trillion dollar country and has a lot free trade agreement's with a lot of countries, so that's why their in G8+5 pact with Brazil, India, South Africa, China.

Durandal
06-27-2007, 08:17 AM
erm, what's the stuff with the blue water navy about ? The thread is about Chinese and American economies and a possible TRADE war; as far as I know a trade war is about money and not about blue water navys.

The article itself doesn't contain too many news and China has still quite a way to go to be on par with the west, especially given the extreme gap between rural and urban population, poverty, corruption and mismanagement, which is stil lfar more prevalent than in the west. This might also lead to political instability, which might then damage the economies of China as well as America and Europe. Too tightly interwoven by now.

And now I leave the thread again to the blue navy enthusiasts p-)

Oh no, I agree with you. The point is, a trade war is foolish in the extreme and unlike China the U.S. controls the TRADE routes.

The best kind of trade war I can imagine is simply American voluntarily controlling their spending so, say a two income household is ONLY using 1 of the incomes and saving the rest, and credit cards are used for emergencies ONLY OR are paid in full each month.

If you aren't doing that you are China's ally in the struggle for the new super power.

All that said...

Talk of trade wars is silly. We are all so closely joined at the hip the only thing smart to do is go a little further and free up trade. You get the Yuan up higher (and it will HAVE to eventually) and we'll see a change.

Not too sure though about what is going to happen to China though. Its proud of its economic and industrial growth but that growth is literally DESTROYING massive parts of what was once a beautiful nation. Now its a cesspool for industrial run off and acid rain.