Women In The Military

[Rhiannon]

Just interested in everyones views about Women in the Military.

When I told my friends that I wanted to join the Army, I received a lot of different views.

My grandfather who is ex-sas threw up his hands in the air and yelled - my granddaughter is a dyke lmfao nah I tisnt. My parents suggested that I look into the Navy or Airforce as I wouldnt be doing anything there. Friends over in Iraq well just lets say - no support - but heaps of - are you friggin crazy -- but used another word instead lol actually quite a few different words were used.

They have calmed down now :) but Im interested in knowing what other people think of Gurls in the Military.

[Dispatcher]

You will find that we on MP.NET are huge supporters of women in the military.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=98207

[jimmyboots]

From my experience with female Marines, I would have have to say that it is largely negative. I have been lucky enough to have met 3 or 4 females that I have any respect for, and many dozens that were worthless and/or a detriment to they're units. Of course I am in no way implying that you would be of the latter type.

[Herrmannek]

Don't go military :) Its not girls job to bi shot, blown, and tore apart in no particular order... Want thrill? play lotto :)

Of course with the exception to things like being nurse in M.A.S.H or something... But thats needs lots of guts and will to study hard...

[exrecce]

Go for it!!!!! The army is a fantastic institution that will give you as much, if not more, if you put the effort in.

I wont lie, but you will meet sexism everyday!!!! Us men cant bare the thought that a woman can do the same job (if not better) in the same mud. Sure there is a difference physically, be it strength or body parts, but some of the best field trackers are women. WOmen play a vital part in todays military, and will continue to break the 'male' barriers put infront of them each and everyday.

You dont have to be 'butch' in the way you conduct yourself, so tell your 'SAS' grandfather (cant remember who it was sorry) to stop being so threatened by you!!! lol he also cares but is to manly to say so!!!

Also dont go the way the majority of females do, and that is the way of the lazy slapper!!! many girls believe that they get more or what they want if they use there *** appeal. Its annoying and only adds to the male sexism issue. If you want something in the army....WORK for it!!

And most of all enjoy it!!!!

[Roy Batty]

I have worked with a lot of women in the military that I would rely on more than many of the men I work with.

If it's what you want to do then jump right in and don't worry about the family, they will come around.

[IDF_TANKER]

Non-combatant jobs - more than welcome, there a lot of places where women can contribute equally with man (intelligence, instructing, office work of any kind... ).

"Mildly" combatant jobs (e.g. AA, MP) - maybe...

Combatant jobs (e.g. armour, infantry) - a very bad idea for several reasons:

First, as a rule women are much weaker - mentally and fiscally. Lifting a 20 kg shell for an average guy is maybe a bit heavy but definitely manageable; for an average chick is nearly impossible. And call me a chauvinist, but when in the hit of the battle where every single second, when I'm waiting for my loader to confirm loading, means a much smaller chance to survive, I'd prefer a guy and not a girl.(I watched once an exercise by a female crew in the IDF Armour School - they had minutes between shell releases).

Second, there are very unhealthy dynamics in mixed units, and I'm not talking about love affairs. Guys tend to react inadequately during combat situations when female soldiers are present. They tend to be overprotective and instead of focusing on the mission they are busy keep their female comrades safe (especially it manifests itself when a female soldier get wounded). And all that even before we get to the authority problems when female happens to be in charge... All of that simply cannot be healthy for the unit moral and fighting spirit. (Let me speculate that in the recent incident, when British sailors and marines got captured by Iranians, one of the main factors which contributed to their reluctance to resist - was female presence...)

Third, female casualties and POWs - it is heart breaking enough to see your sons and brothers coming home in coffins and the whole other thing is when they are daughters and sisters (the same and much more goes for POWs). It can severely undermine the nation ability to sustain casualties and consequently the war effort.

But, again, there are always exceptions - maybe you are one of these super-chicks that nobody can mess with...:)

[SineJustitia]

My parents suggested that I look into the Navy or Airforce as I wouldnt be doing anything there.

Always listen to your parents.

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/2871/sailorxa7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[muck]

I guess, it just depends what kind of woman you meet in the military: One who has chosen to become a professional soldier, or one who has chosen to just do a job (like it would be comparable to any job else). In the latter category, you'll probably meet in every profession persons you cannot rely on and who wont perform good services, be it men or women. At least that's my experience :)

I'm no active, only have some in my friends circle at the moment in the German Army and Navy, but as an outsider I always find it 'fascinating' what their opinion about female soldiers is. From a number of 10 soldiers as a statistical value, they said they have met 4 lazy incapable idiots, 3 they could work with but wouldn't rely on, 2 good comrades with whom they would also go into combat if they had to and 1 really trustable amazon with absolutely noteworthy soldier abilities.
I indeed think that glaring less women than men may be applicable as professional soldiers, but I think as well that unbased Sexism is the silliest kind of discrimination (which is stupid in general).

[IDF_TANKER]

I guess, it just depends what kind of woman you meet in the military: One who has chosen to become a professional soldier, or one who has chosen to just do a job (like it would be comparable to any job else). In the latter category, you'll probably meet in every profession persons you cannot rely on and who wont perform good services, be it men or women. At least that's my experience :)

I'm no active, only have some in my friends circle at the moment in the German Army and Navy, but as an outsider I always find it 'fascinating' what their opinion about female soldiers is. From a number of 10 soldiers as a statistical value, they said they have met 4 lazy incapable idiots, 3 they could work with but wouldn't rely on, 2 good comrades with whom they would also go into combat if they had to and 1 really trustable amazon with absolutely noteworthy soldier abilities.
I indeed think that glaring less women than men may be applicable as professional soldiers, but I think as well that unbased Sexism is the silliest kind of discrimination (which is stupid in general).

That's why you based it statistically..?:)

[wicked_hind]

Screw what any of your friends think. You're not going to do it for them, and they're not interested in joining the military. If it's something you really want to do, and not just doing it for the college money or bonuses, give it a shot. Everybody here supports women in the military.

[muck]

That's why you based it statistically..?:)

Ha, you got me :)

Well, I just analogously quoted what they said when we discussed about that topic. It was only offered as an example by them, you know "From let's say ten females I met blablabla"...

[Moledet]

In addition to what IDF_TANKER said there are many logistic problems.
As an infantry you carry less weight and most women can't compare with the males in terms of stamina. Women need to take care of their hygiene a lot more, men can go around in mud, dust and smoke for months without showering with women it's a lot more problematic. Monthly period is also quite a problem especially in a tank or APC.
In addition, women as a gender are a lot less aggressive and violent and in battle it's needed.

Though, women are better sharpshooters, the wide pelvis gives them greater stability and better center of gravity. They can also be great pilots.

What you need to ask yourself is whether you are one of the few exceptional women that have the mental and physical ability to be a combat soldier, your friends know you better than us so that's the reason they advised you to not become a soldier.

[seraosha]

Go for it, and be sure to get what you want in witting from the recruiter.
Most of the above advice is well meant, but most likely direct combat arms wouldn't be an option anyway.

Just look deep into your heart, and if this is really something you want to do, for your own reasons, and you think you can be a team player that wants to be a small part in a big machine, then go for it.

Which is the same advice I gave my daughter when she joined JROTC.

[IDF_TANKER]

In addition to what IDF_TANKER said there are many logistic problems.
As an infantry you carry less weight and most women can't compare with the males in terms of stamina. Women need to take care of their hygiene a lot more, men can go around in mud, dust and smoke for months without showering with women it's a lot more problematic. Monthly period is also quite a problem especially in a tank or APC.
In addition, women as a gender are a lot less aggressive and violent and in battle it's needed.

Though, women are better sharpshooters, the wide pelvis gives them greater stability and better center of gravity. They can also be great pilots.

What you need to ask yourself is whether you are one of the few exceptional women that have the mental and physical ability to be a combat soldier, your friends know you better than us so that's the reason they advised you to not become a soldier.

Well, we can always use them as self-propelled bipods(or quadropods for this matter) for the heavy MGs.

[BLUE THOR]

Women arent allowed in Australian Combat units, predominantly for the reasons outlined by IDF TANKER and Moledet. I have nothing against women in the army at all, they often have a different approach to a situation that doesnt occur to blokes. they do alot of good work and kick the guys arses at alot of things, i admit to being out shot and out smarted by alot of female soldiers.. some female soldiers i have known have been the most professional soldiers i have worked with in their trade.
I knew a girl in NZ who was a recon scout, and damn good at it too!!
my trade is Infantry, i dont want to see women in combat because im not keen on killing women or watching women die. Call me sexist or old-fashioned ( guilty of the latter), but its not something that sits well with me...
but i reckon you have the right attitude, and if you are focused and really want to put the hard yards in to make yourself a damn good soldier. i say best of luck to you, you will do fine!

[miguelencanarias]

Excuse me, did you just say 'my granddaughter'? May I ask how old are you?

[D-gin]

Just interested in everyones views about Women in the Military.

If it's what you want to do then go for it!

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Needless to say, I'm a supporter of women in the military, considering I "worked very closely with" and eventually married one. The thing is, you need to be sure you select a job that you can excel at. Don't go in thinking you'll be cut any slack, because apart from physical training, you won't be. You'll be expected to pull your weight, and if you don't, you'll do nothing but earn the scorn of your comrades and be made miserable.

It's a very man-centric and competitive environment -and if you want to succeed you'll have to do it on their terms. So pick something you know you have the capacity to be very good at. Have no illusions at what you can do, and deal with realities. I don't know what your aptitudes are - but my preferences for technical work (computers, communications, intel) lie with the Air Force and Navy. Just sayin'...

[oregongrunt]

From my experience with female Marines, I would have have to say that it is largely negative. I have been lucky enough to have met 3 or 4 females that I have any respect for, and many dozens that were worthless and/or a detriment to they're units. Of course I am in no way implying that you would be of the latter type.

I'd say go into the Air Force or Navy. Generally the women I've seen in the army tend to be masculine and have the "Truck Driver" personality (except the medical field or aviation). You'd also be stuck on an army fort (not a nice place and always situated near shady area of nearby towns consisting of several bars, pawn shops, and strip clubs). Maybe many army women aren't like the ones that I've just described, but if I had a daughter I think that she'd have a better experience in the Air Force or Navy. These are just my personal observations, so please take them as that.

[Rhiannon]

You will find that we on MP.NET are huge supporters of women in the military.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=98207

Yeah, I saw that, surprised there wasnt a poll with it. Is there a place that only has mens pics, so that the females can go and check out all the cute guys.

[Rhiannon]

Don't go military :) Its not girls job to bi shot, blown, and tore apart in no particular order... Want thrill? play lotto :)

Of course with the exception to things like being nurse in M.A.S.H or something... But thats needs lots of guts and will to study hard...
And will I get to marry a doctor??

[ShotOver]

And will I get to marry a doctor??

I wouldn't listen to that bloke, he's a bit narrow minded - he thinks tattoos are for Criminals and tribesmen only.

Go for your life mate, in regards to the Army. I personally do not want women in combat roles because of the lower standards that will have to occur for women to do the same job, that is based on my time in the Navy.

[boone]

And will I get to marry a doctor??
Phoo!
I like Her!
The last Goddamn thing you want to do is ask for advice here cold.
Hang around a bit..
Get to know some people....
Most are happy to help and give opinions

...and welcome!

[Rhiannon]

Thanks everyone, its given me a lot to think about. It really has and I really appreciate it. One of the things that really stands out is apart from lol woman being eye candy, is that is you are capable go for it.

In Australia females dont go into the front lines, but in all honesty in dangerous situations, where is the front line. It is everywhere.

It is all about what you are capable of. Not what you want to be capable of, or think you are capable of, but what you are capable of.

One of my friends gave me the quote above and thats what is making me wonder if I am doing the right thing. Am I capable of doing it. Will find out in September. I lost a bit of confidence after reading it lol.

[Rhiannon]

Well, we can always use them as self-propelled bipods(or quadropods for this matter) for the heavy MGs.
This is good :roll:

[ShotOver]

Ah yeah, your an Aussie aye?

[Rhiannon]

I'd say go into the Air Force or Navy. Generally the women I've seen in the army tend to be masculine and have the "Truck Driver" personality (except the medical field or aviation). You'd also be stuck on an army fort (not a nice place and always situated near shady area of nearby towns consisting of several bars, pawn shops, and strip clubs). Maybe many army women aren't like the ones that I've just described, but if I had a daughter I think that she'd have a better experience in the Air Force or Navy. These are just my personal observations, so please take them as that.
See thats the thing Air Force and Navy why dont they get respect?? I have never ever even had any interest in joining either one. And yes I know someone has to drive the boat and plane to get the soldiers where they have to go.

[boone]

It is all about what you are capable of. Not what you want to be capable of, or think you are capable of, but what you are capable of.


And there's only one way to find out what you are capable of........Do it.
Report back in 4 years and let us know how it wentp-)

[Rhiannon]

Excuse me, did you just say 'my granddaughter'? May I ask how old are you?
I am 18 years old

[ShotOver]

What country are you from, so it gives us a better understanding.

[Rhiannon]

Women arent allowed in Australian Combat units, predominantly for the reasons outlined by IDF TANKER and Moledet. I have nothing against women in the army at all, they often have a different approach to a situation that doesnt occur to blokes. they do alot of good work and kick the guys arses at alot of things, i admit to being out shot and out smarted by alot of female soldiers.. some female soldiers i have known have been the most professional soldiers i have worked with in their trade.
I knew a girl in NZ who was a recon scout, and damn good at it too!!
my trade is Infantry, i dont want to see women in combat because im not keen on killing women or watching women die. Call me sexist or old-fashioned ( guilty of the latter), but its not something that sits well with me...
but i reckon you have the right attitude, and if you are focused and really want to put the hard yards in to make yourself a damn good soldier. i say best of luck to you, you will do fine!

I guess women aren't seen as aggressive like men, as a whole. Its just old social norms applied to a changing world, for the most part. A lot of people don't believe women should be in combat, and the Air Force and Navy offer a lot of non-combat specialties.

But there are a lot of armys that are made up of just woman eg Afghanistan and they kick arzze. They have also been doing it for centuries, if my history is correct.

[Rhiannon]

What country are you from, so it gives us a better understanding.
Australia is my home :)

[ShotOver]

Australia is my home :)

Yeah righto, well that cancels out all Combat Related Jobs in the Army. You'll be looking at Admin/Clerk, Medical, Cook/Steward. Obviously you have been to defencejobs.gov.au

The Navy is good to go in Australia, offers a lot for a girl if she isn't keen on being cook.

[Rhiannon]

Yeah righto, well that cancels out all Combat Related Jobs in the Army. You'll be looking at Admin/Clerk, Medical, Cook/Steward. Obviously you have been to defencejobs.gov.au

The Navy is good to go in Australia, offers a lot for a girl if she isn't keen on being cook.
I cant cook lol but am looking into support and logistics at the moment. O and its for the Army Reserves, for the moment, but am thinking about changing that to full time. I forgot to put that in, sorry. And yeah its real Army.

[ShotOver]

I cant cook lol but am looking into support and logistics at the moment. O and its for the Army Reserves, for the moment, but am thinking about changing that to full time. I forgot to put that in, sorry. And yeah its real Army.

Ah righto, so chocko logistics. Fair enough. Changing it to ARA (Fulltime) now, or after a year or two.

[ArmyJonHall]

Ah righto, so chocko logistics. Fair enough. Changing it to ARA (Fulltime) now, or after a year or two.
A woman in a choc unit? Watch yourself, they'll do everything they can to hold onto you- delay your paperwork, 'lose' your forms for transfer to ARA, fill your head with horror stories about how ARA men are all assholes...

Well, only some are assholes :D Best of luck to you.

[Herrmannek]

And will I get to marry a doctor??

How can I know? Just stay out of harms way remembering military isn't a job for life unless you want to get KIA.

[BLUE THOR]

A woman in a choc unit? Watch yourself, they'll do everything they can to hold onto you- delay your paperwork, 'lose' your forms for transfer to ARA, fill your head with horror stories about how ARA men are all assholes...

Well, only some are assholes :D Best of luck to you.

yep, the chocks will stuff you around- i have had 4 transfers to the ARA "lost" ( in the shredder) its taken me 4 yrs to get to this point, but im outa pacience...
you might end up in a Infantry unit, if you choose too, but only as a driver or medic in Headquarters... its good tax free money, but if your keen on the army, go for the 4 yrs, if you are unsure what you want, go for the reserves.

[ShotOver]

How can I know? Just stay out of harms way remembering military isn't a job for life unless you want to get KIA.

Your attitude pisses me off, I don't know why you post here.

[naymeria]

But there are a lot of armys that are made up of just woman eg Afghanistan and they kick arzze. They have also been doing it for centuries, if my history is correct.

Yes, your history is correct. The fair medieval lady which hides trembling behind a panel while the enemy breeches the walls is as false as a pink donkey. Medieval women fought and they fought like hell, from throwing heavy bricks, rocks and boiling oil onto the enemies’ heads to using lances and swords. They knew what would happen to them and they knew what would happen to their children. And, under seige, in absence of the husband, it was the lady of the castle who led the knights and men.

Hunnic, Celtic and Viking women were excellent archers, they followed their men in the conquest of lands and partecipated to battles. Rushila, the Red Maiden, terrorized for years the nothern shores of Ireland with her warriors. Danish women warriors fighting with shield and sword are known to have battled against the Swedes. Ragnor Lanbrok called upon his former wife with her warriors for military aid, when he was in trouble.
And regarding hygiene, just think of what it must have been at the time and when going off to war also meant, among other things, infections, parassites and dissenteria.

Very famous are the women of Cordova. (don’t remember the year.) The men exited the walls to lift the Saracene seige and were badly defeated. The next morning, the women grabbed hold of any weapon left, swords, pikes, lances, knifes, scites, poles and probably also brooms, they exited the city and won the Saracenes. They were insigned of a Knightly Order, one of the very few (2 or 3 in all) ever given to women, for the victory and their courage.

Jean d’Arc led an army.

There was at least one, very well recorded, although unknown by name, medieval woman who jostled. And going back in time, there were Roman free women who partecipated to gladiator games in the arenas. There were female professional gladiators.

All the above is historically recorded, but I see no reason why also women of Germanic, Sarmate, Mongolic or Slavic tribes couldn’t be fighters, if they wished to, due to religion and/or life style similarities with the Celts, the Vikings or the Huns.

In western and north Europe, all started to disappear with the increasing growth of the secular power of the Church of Rome, mostly during the second half of the Low Middle Ages. Women actually had more administrative power, legal rights and freedom during the Middle Ages than they would have had during the following centuries.

Do what your soul feels inclined to do. It’s always the best. Anyway, know that in any predominantly male and competitive working environment, and probably the military isn’t the worst (I know at least other two fields, one by personal experience), as a woman you’re likely to find yourself having to work two times as much as a man only to be evaluated as half and being harassed, mobbed and descriminated, all along the way. Just be ready for it, because it can be really tough to bear.
(Nature is just. It distributes a**holes uniformly everywhere. Even though they do have the tendency to concentrate more in some places rather than in others.)

Cheers, Nay

[Moledet]

Children were also great fighters...point is that it's not the best situation having women serve in combat roles and it's not something the army wants (though in some places it's forced to), it's mostly done in desperate times when there's no other choice.

I respect all women that fought in battle (and many women fought in our independence war), but today when there's no need for it and it causes nothing but problems it's better to have them use their brain to further develop the economy.

[Herrmannek]

Your attitude pisses me off, I don't know why you post here.

My attitude? Excluding a pinch of sarcasm, What I wanted to say military isn't a life long career for 95% of enlisted people. So its a good idea to choose MOS that will be of use in civilian life right ahead. That usually means staying out of the trouble and getting lots of the training...

[Roy Batty]

My attitude? Excluding a pinch of sarcasm, What I wanted to say military isn't a life long career for 95% of enlisted people. So its a good idea to choose MOS that will be of use in civilian life right ahead. That usually means staying out of the trouble and getting lots of the training...

It depends on your army. The Canadian Forces is a very career based military. Most of our soldiers are in for the long haul. It means we have an "older" army but the trade off is that you also get a more experianced military.

[oregongrunt]

My attitude? Excluding a pinch of sarcasm, What I wanted to say military isn't a life long career for 95% of enlisted people. So its a good idea to choose MOS that will be of use in civilian life right ahead. That usually means staying out of the trouble and getting lots of the training...
You are correct, many join for college money. They serve their terms of service and then move on with their lives, nothing wrong with that.

[Beowulf]

.... drunk posting

[naymeria]

[...] it causes nothing but problems ...

Somehow this isn’t new to me :)... and I’ve never been in the army.

But i do agree to a certain extent with you. Close contact/extreme conditions combat is primarily a man’s job, it has always been ( the women were mainly archers, namely striking from afar), simply due to physical related reasons, such as strength and endurance. It’s not sexism. It’s a data of fact, which noone can do anything about. Males are physically stronger, have more endurance, are more agressive and have a liking for agression too, thing which women instead don’t have. They are also more capable of mentally focussing themselves blindly on a specific goal (although less capable of seeing the ‘shades of grey’, as to say, and subdities). Males are biologically programmed to be this way, because their main role in nature is to protect the mother of their children, and human genes haven’t been modified for thousands of years.

All the more if the presence of women may create uneasiness in critical situations where the life of others depend on your full physical capabilities and your life depends on the capabilities of others, when you certainly don’t need uneasy feelings. You can’t doubt, not even one moment, of your fellow combatants. This however is an issue which soldiers themselves should bring up in a calm, rational and logical way to the Ministry of Defense, or whoever, maybe to effectively restrict certain close combat/extreme condition units, corps, ect to men only and/or to women with male physical bulk (they do exist). Just complaining, ranting, taking it up on female fellow soldiers or obstructing them by any means is not only pointless, but it is unjust and can even be counterproductive, when it comes to effective combat. It’s not their fault. It’s the system’s and it’s this that should be changed. The point of war is afterall to win it with the least losses, not to give equal opportunities in every single stance and situation.

Regarding the rest, in a present day warfare, where targeting from afar is a major component of offense, I see no reason why women can’t be just as good as men in any these fields and why their presence should be problemsome. If a woman has a spirit of military life and a wish to serve her country, it’s her right to do so. Hygiene and menstrual periods don’t hold. Nor redirecting her to some ‘intellectual’ field which she maybe has no feeling for. Sorry.

Nay

[Herrmannek]

You are correct, many join for college money. They serve their terms of service and then move on with their lives, nothing wrong with that.

I say its more than correct...

[Ratamacue]

.... drunk postingNawlins beat your ass, didn't she?

[ed316]

Follow your heart. You don't want to be the person that sit's there and say " what if?".

[Beowulf]

Nawlins beat your ass, didn't she?

haha no, that's why it was a pre-emptive edit.

[Douros81]

If its done the was the USMC does it, I don't have a problem with women in the military. I don't know alot of women who want to go into the military. Since I do more with LE, to me the best cop is a single male, after all they don't have to remove their Bat-Belt to use the restroom.

If you want to do, then do it.