Troy SOPMOD/SOPMOD 2 vs Sage EBR

[Mk23]

Asking for pros and cons, personal opinions, personal experiences, anything.


Preferably from those that have had trigger time on both.

[thomas93190728]

Then you better PM SMGLee. http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=2234

[Roy Batty]

Talk to H2O MAN http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=22977

He is the resident Troy/EBR guy.

[H2O MAN]

I have a TROY MCS with a Sully/ACE folder...

http://www.athenswater.com/images/H2Os-MCS-Sully7.jpg


... a full length SAGE EBR ...

http://www.athenswater.com/images/EBRs020407%20003.jpg


... and a SAGE NAVY SEAL EBR CQB Mod 1
http://www.athenswater.com/images/EBRs020407%20004.jpg

All 3 are very nice in their own way.

The TROY MCS is the best choice if you are used to or want the ergonomics of a flat top AR-10. It is a great optics platform.
You do give up the standard sights and must use flip up sights. You can use the AR type grip and butt stock of your choice.

The SAGE EBR Mod 0 has a fully adjustable butt stock, uses standard sights and is rock solid.

The SAGE EBR CQB Mod 1 has the AR type butt stock, uses standard sights, is rock solid and is the lightest of the 3.
You can use the AR type grip and butt stock of your choice with some exceptions on the butt stock.

Mounting optics on a SAGE has been a problem, but the new Detachable Cantilevered Sight Base from SAGE looks like a winner.



I am working on a simpler, more traditional M14 stock... USGI synthetic with RRM bottom rail, KAC RAS top rail, standard sights
and the new Cantilevered Sight Base from SAGE. I have not put everything together yet, but you can get an idea from this picture.
I will need a cheek rest to run optics.

http://www.athenswater.com/images/MK14-SEI-RRM2.jpg

I use two different barreled actions in my stocks. Both are MK14 SEI builds.
One has a chrome lined standard profile 18.0" barrel, the other has a medium heavy 18.0" Crazy Horse barrel with M80HT.

Visit My weapons page (http://www.athenswater.com/my_weapons.htm) and M14HDW.US (http://m14hdw.us) for additional information.

H2O MAN

[Mk23]

On the Sage EBR CQB Mod 1, you said there were some exceptions on AR-15 stocks that would fit.

Which ones would those be?

[H2O MAN]

On the Sage EBR CQB Mod 1, you said there were some exceptions on AR-15 stocks that would fit.

Which ones would those be?

My mistake - they all should work just fine.

[Biglug]

The Sage EBR CQB Mod1 won't mate up with noncollapsing AR stocks that need the receiver extension/receiver notch point like the fixed A2 stocks and Magpul PRS.
That's another place the Troy MCS shines.
I'm not all in love with the Sully stock H20's using, but I'm sure there's a similar nice cheekweld that goes with it like the PRS and an A2 also.
http://law483.com/images/MCSS/TacticalScopesm-576.jpg

http://law483.com/stocks/ti-mss.html

[H2O MAN]

The Sage EBR CQB Mod1 won't mate up with noncollapsing AR stocks that need the receiver extension/receiver notch point like the fixed A2 stocks and Magpul PRS.

That's the one I was thinking of, but could not remember - thanks.

[Mk23]

Sounds like the Troy MCS/SOPMOD 2 would be more suited with attachments for a longer range role (for example: Magpul PRS stock, 6x or so optics, bipod), while the EBR CQB would be better with attachments for a general 'urban combat' setup (for example: Ace SOCOM folding stock, 1x red dot optic, vertical foregrip).

[LapuaMag]

I have a TROY MCS with a Sully/ACE folder...

http://www.athenswater.com/images/H2Os-MCS-Sully7.jpg


... a full length SAGE EBR ...

http://www.athenswater.com/images/EBRs020407%20003.jpg


... and a SAGE NAVY SEAL EBR CQB Mod 1
http://www.athenswater.com/images/EBRs020407%20004.jpg

All 3 are very nice in their own way.

The TROY MCS is the best choice if you are used to or want the ergonomics of a flat top AR-10. It is a great optics platform.
You do give up the standard sights and must use flip up sights. You can use the AR type grip and butt stock of your choice.

The SAGE EBR Mod 0 has a fully adjustable butt stock, uses standard sights and is rock solid.

The SAGE EBR CQB Mod 1 has the AR type butt stock, uses standard sights, is rock solid and is the lightest of the 3.
You can use the AR type grip and butt stock of your choice with some exceptions on the butt stock.

Mounting optics on a SAGE has been a problem, but the new Detachable Cantilevered Sight Base from SAGE looks like a winner.



I am working on a simpler, more traditional M14 stock... USGI synthetic with RRM bottom rail, KAC RAS top rail, standard sights
and the new Cantilevered Sight Base from SAGE. I have not put everything together yet, but you can get an idea from this picture.
I will need a cheek rest to run optics.

http://www.athenswater.com/images/MK14-SEI-RRM2.jpg

I use two different barreled actions in my stocks. Both are MK14 SEI builds.
One has a chrome lined standard profile 18.0" barrel, the other has a medium heavy 18.0" Crazy Horse barrel with M80HT.

Visit My weapons page (http://www.athenswater.com/my_weapons.htm) and M14HDW.US (http://m14hdw.us) for additional information.

H2O MAN


H20 you DOG!!! I've never seen your ACE Folder!!! Where did you acquire it? Better yet do you know where to purchase one currently? Any info. would be appreciated. Your guns never get old!
Thanks to everyone that posted pics and info.p-)

[H2O MAN]

H20 you DOG!!! I've never seen your ACE Folder!!! Where did you acquire it? Better yet do you know where to purchase one currently? Any info. would be appreciated. Your guns never get old!
Thanks to everyone that posted pics and info.p-)

LapuaMag, LAW483 (http://www.law483.com/stocks/ti-mss.html) (Tony) put that together for me. He can help you out.

[Biglug]

Sounds like the Troy MCS/SOPMOD 2 would be more suited with attachments for a longer range role (for example: Magpul PRS stock, 6x or so optics, bipod), while the EBR CQB would be better with attachments for a general 'urban combat' setup (for example: Ace SOCOM folding stock, 1x red dot optic, vertical foregrip).

Both are more than suitable for long range setup and CQB. It's basically which one suits your taste the most.
You can use all the great grip and collapsing AR buttstock choices on either which are still great stocks in general for long or short range. The LOP adjustment and cheekweld with your optics and iron sights is what's going to matter the most in that aspect. The Magpul CTR on H2O's Sage Mod1 lets you use the cheekpieces to raise up your cheekweld to be the perfect height for whatever optics you'll use and is a very comfortable stock for either close or long.
With a bipod on the forward lower rail and a good scope on a receiver mount it will make a great long range setup that is easy to go to CBQ fast if the optics and bipod are on quick releases.

An M14/M1A is a hard hitting 7.62 battle rifle whether close or far with how far depending a bit on the barrel length and round your using plus being setup in platform to help you deliver the round there.

For the two stock choices I'd say deciding what optics your planning on using, the buttstock you like best and whether you want to get rid of the M14's iron sights is a good place to start.
The MCS will force you to take off the M14 iron sights and go to buis, but it's the better platform for using an ACOG with it's more to a AR sight plane and top rail space to let you get the right eye relief using the stock alone.
With the Sage you'll need to add-on a receiver mount like Smith's or GDI's to use the ACOG better.
Once the ACOG is mounted on either too, your iron sight will be unuseable till the ACOG is removed.

http://www.gdisecurity.com/html/engineered_solutions_g1.html

There's no real best all around setup. There's always compromises and you just have to figure out which is better for you in feel and pros and cons to your taste.

[H2O MAN]

With the Sage you'll need to add-on a receiver mount like Smith's or GDI's to use the ACOG better.
Once the ACOG is mounted on either too, your iron sight will be unuseable till the ACOG is removed.


A potentially better scope mount option is the new SAGE cantilevered sight base (http://ebrstocks.com/SIGHTBASE.PDF)

[Biglug]

A potentially better scope mount option is the new SAGE cantilevered sight base (http://ebrstocks.com/SIGHTBASE.PDF)


That's not bad. This is what the new Navy mods are using right?

I like the looks of it. The quick release lever/acuating cam locks and stripper clip guide implant with set screw should make it pretty stable while fairly easy to remove fast.

I wonder if they used 6061 T6 for the aluminum of the rail or 7075 T6, but it should be sturdy for long enough just the same.

One con to me is that it puts an already high optic higher, but it's no doubt workable.
You should get a good cheekweld possible with Sage's original style stock or they wouldn't have done it this way, and I'm sure a pretty good cheekweld with the CTR highest cheekpiece.

A problem with that extra height though is the higher you raise your cheekweld up the lower the buttstock goes in your shoulder.
It can get kind of uncomfortable for certain positions depending on the persons body and where it sits. Especially after that area gets pounded from the recoil if it's a tender spot.

Not bad though.:)

[H2O MAN]

That's not bad. This is what the new Navy mods are using right?

I like the looks of it. The quick release lever/acuating cam locks and stripper clip guide
implant with set screw should make it pretty stable while fairly easy to remove fast.

Yep, and you can see the tallest Magpul cheek rest is being used in this picture.

http://www.athenswater.com/images/MK14MOD1firstissue.JPG

[H2O MAN]

LapuaMag, LAW483 (http://www.law483.com/stocks/ti-mss.html) (Tony) put that together for me. He can help you out.

Here is a picture of the Sully Folder that I had.

http://www.athenswater.com/images/Sully.TROY-sidefolder.jpg

[tactical73]

great sully stock,nice job