Israeli Company Develops Revolutionary Combat Pistol Sight System

[IDF_TANKER]

While DefenseReview was at NDIA Small Arms Symposium 2007, we ran into a very friendly and enthusiastic gentleman named Gil Elharar, who works for an Israeli company called North East Technologies, Ltd. (NET) (http://www.ne-tech.com/). Gil showed us a developmental prototype (functional prototype) of a very interesting and somwhat revolutionary combat pistol sighting system. Instead of utilizing the standard front-and-rear sight setup, the NET tactical pistol sight is a one-piece elongated rear sight comprised of a red fiber optic sight housed inside a lightweight polymer and extruded aluminum case. The prototype sight we saw was mounted on a blue (i.e. inert) Glock 17 (G17) training simulator weapon.
To use the sight, you just...


http://www.combatreform2.com/defrev/NDIA_SmallArms2007_NET_PistolSight_3.jpg (http://www.combatreform2.com/defrev/NDIA_SmallArms2007_NET_PistolSight_3.jpg)
...bring the pistol up and aim it at the target in the normal fashion while keeping both eyes open. When you can see the entire fiber-optic sight as a complete red circle (solid red circular dot) superimposed over (or directly underneath) the aiming point (i.e. target), fire! It's really as simple as that. It's actually very fast and intuitive to use. One of the advantages of the NET monolithic pistol sight is that it should be less ****e to snagging on the draw, since it does away with the front sight. As we mentioned above, the sight we saw was just a prototype, but it worked well. The circular red dot was easy to pick up quickly, in the well-lit room we were in when we tried it. However, we didn't have a chance to test it in low light or darkness, so we don't yet know how it will perform in either of those conditions. DefenseReview expects the final prototype and/or functional production version of the sight will be black in color, rather than non-painted aluminum. Defense Review does not yet know when this new sight will be available for purchase, but we'll keep you posted.

We've said it before, and we'll say it again--the Israelis are an innovative bunch. Of course, with their defense and security concerns, they have to be.
The following are the photos we shot of of the NET combat/tactical monolithic pistol sight developmental prototype from directly behind it, so you can see what the sight picture looks like (we did the best we could). Remember, if you can't see the complete circular red dot, you're not sighted in!):

http://www.combatreform2.com/defrev/NDIA_SmallArms2007_NET_PistolSight_1.jpg

http://www.combatreform2.com/defrev/NDIA_SmallArms2007_NET_PistolSight_2.jpg (http://www.combatreform2.com/defrev/NDIA_SmallArms2007_NET_PistolSight_2.jpg)






The source (http://www.defensereview.com./modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1028)


I'm not sure how "revolutionary" it is, but looks interesting.

[zoot]

The gun looks fake!!!!!!

[Suisse Fus]

reminds me of when i used to tape a laser pointer and a straw onto my cheap BB gun and thought i was a sniper...

[Anthony91]

The gun looks fake!!!!!!

Really?

:bash:

[joshdb1987]

The gun looks fake!!!!!!

Did you even read the article?

[Straker]

Errr, but by not using the front site base you have just massively shortened your site radius, which is already small on a pistol... how is this any use over about 10 metres?

[nullterm]

I wouldn't say revolutionary, but it definitely is creative. Essentially it's a more compact red dot sight for pistols. Red dot (though larger) is still probably a better system as it has a wider viewing angle.

Straker is right, it does reduce sight radius to like an inch or two.

[LRPV]

Errr, but by not using the front site base you have just massively shortened your site radius, which is already small on a pistol... how is this any use over about 10 metres?

A pistol is a close range weapon. If you require it for use over 30m then I would argue you have the wrong tool for the job. I can't see why this would not be a viable sight up to this range.

Any photos of the traverse/elevation mechanism? Simple grub screws on a ramp?

[Mark Sman]

Meh, this is a modern version of the old guttersnipe concept from the ASP.

Can't find a picture of what the ASP site looked like. The guns.ru shows the concept, but not really how the three triangles worked or looked.

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg147-e.htm

The concept seems the seem. Reduce the chance of a draw snag. Make everything as simple and instinctive as possible.

This new thing could work.

[playtym]

I think I'll stick with this.

http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/3052/xssightstrit2e9c3042zn2.png

[IDF_TANKER]

Meh, this is a modern version of the old guttersnipe concept from the ASP.

Can't find a picture of what the ASP site looked like. The guns.ru shows the concept, but not really how the three triangles worked or looked.

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg147-e.htm

The concept seems the seem. Reduce the chance of a draw snag. Make everything as simple and instinctive as possible.

This new thing could work.





I think I'll stick with this.

http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/3052/xssightstrit2e9c3042zn2.png

The whole point of the new sights is that you can aim with both eyes open (unlike in the systems you mentioned), which is supposed to make the aiming process much faster and intuitive. The idea is to create a kind of much more compact, simpler and cheaper version of the laser point sights.

[Jippo]

The whole point of the new sights is that you can aim with both eyes open (unlike in the systems you mentioned), which is supposed to make the aiming process much faster and intuitive.

Why on earth would somebody aim a pistol with one eye closed??? There is no reason what so ever to shoot a pistol with weak eye closed, no matter what kind of sights you use.

[IDF_TANKER]

Why on earth would somebody aim a pistol with one eye closed??? There is no reason what so ever to shoot a pistol with weak eye closed, no matter what kind of sights you use.

Are you serious..?:roll:

[Jippo]

Yes, very much so.

[IDF_TANKER]

Yes, very much so.

Man, by no means I consider myself a handgun shooting expert but I do have some professional experience with it. I never heard about shooting using the sights with both eyes open (unless you are talking about "point shooting" when you don't use the sights at all)...

[playtym]

The whole point of the new sights is that you can aim with both eyes open (unlike in the systems you mentioned), which is supposed to make the aiming process much faster and intuitive. The idea is to create a kind of much more compact, simpler and cheaper version of the laser point sights.

Come on mate, Ashley Express sights are for fast, close range defensive shooting, not target shooting! You wouldn't shoot with one eye closed.


Folk who can't manage this with both eyes open...
http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/3052/xssightstrit2e9c3042zn2.png

...could always try something like this.
http://img467.imageshack.us/img467/3374/1911sights2ecf3ba4km7.png

[Jippo]

Man, by no means I consider myself a handgun shooting expert but I do have some professional experience with it. I never heard about shooting using the sights with both eyes open (unless you are talking about "point shooting" when you don't use the sights at all)...

I'm not talking about point shooting. And I'm not a expert either, I just put few thousands of rounds through my glock on an annual basis. But I don't even know a shooter who would keep his weak eye closed when shooting with a pistol.

Rifles at longer ranges are a different matter, I like to shoot with iron sights with weak eye closed. With scope I again keep both eyes open.

[IDF_TANKER]

I'm not talking about point shooting. And I'm not a expert either, I just put few thousands of rounds through my glock on an annual basis. But I don't even know a shooter who would keep his weak eye closed when shooting with a pistol.

Rifles at longer ranges are a different matter, I like to shoot with iron sights with weak eye closed. With scope I again keep both eyes open.

This is very interesting. Look, I'm not going to argue what is better, but it's just very strange to me (the scope part too)... I worked a couple of years as a security guard (I had Glock too - 19c) and the guy who trained us in the course was a Professional (ex-Shabaq operator, he was also instructor of SF in reserve) and we never did it with both eyes open, even at range of 6 yards and at <0.2 sec per shot "fast shooting". But again, I can imagine if you training enough time it will work as well.

[Jippo]

This is very interesting. Look, I'm not going to argue what is better, but it's just very strange to me (the scope part too)...

Naah, no need to argue, just different methods.

The argument to keep both eyes open is of course better situational awareness as your field of view is larger. There is also the fact that eyes get less strained as they get the same amount of light and you don't have to use your eyelid muscles, but think that is just a secondary effect.

Same with scope - if you use only the strong eye you will have very limited field of view through the magnified scope. With both eyes open you will see any movement in front of you.

With irons I can't get good sight picture to longer ranges so I have close my other eye. At close ranges I keep both eyes open again.

But what ever works for you.

[Sabre]

I'm different again. We tend to shoot pistols with both eyes open (situational awareness mixed with ease/speed of shooting), but there are some people who need to close their weak eye to shoot. There was even one bloke who was right handed, but left eye dominant. He held the pistol in his right hand but aimed with his left eye, closing his right...weirdo...:)

As for rifles, I close my weak (left) eye for all sights except for CQB where I use either iron sights or the EBS on my optics with both eyes open. Then again, there are guys who can shoot optics with both eyes open and find it helps them to acquire targets easier. Horses for courses.

[IDF_TANKER]

.......................
Same with scope - if you use only the strong eye you will have very limited field of view through the magnified scope. With both eyes open you will see any movement in front of you.
.......................

The scope part is a bit strange too. I can't tell if I would succeed aiming with both eyes open, for I never even tried doing it. But the idea that brain is getting from one eye "regular" image and from second one - magnified(Trijicon x4 in my case) image and then is trying to combine them in one... well, I wonder how good it works for most people...

[Xaito]

The scope part is a bit strange too. I can't tell if I would succeed aiming with both eyes open, for I never even tried doing it. But the idea that brain is getting from one eye "regular" image and from second one - magnified(Trijicon x4 in my case) image and then is trying to combine them in one... well, I wonder how good it works for most people...

reminds me of how we used microscopes at school in biology - for some reason the teacher always demanded that we keep both eyes open while looking through.
I don't think the one normal image and one magnified is a big problem though - when you look you always see with a leading eye and the image from the other eye is used for 3d vision etc - for example my eyesight is different - my right eye is more nearsighted then my left but I don't notice it at all when I look with both eyes - only when I close my left eye I notice - the brain uses the right image automatically.

[lt tahoe]

I shoot the same as Jippo and Sabre--both eyes open with optics and pistol, weak closed with iron rifle sights. Pistol just takes work, but magnified optics are natural for me; my brain concentrates on the scope image, with the rest secondary.

[Mu-Meson]

There was even one bloke who was right handed, but left eye dominant. He held the pistol in his right hand but aimed with his left eye, closing his right...weirdo...:-)

Do I know you? You just described me!

[oldsoak]

I'm different again. We tend to shoot pistols with both eyes open (situational awareness mixed with ease/speed of shooting), but there are some people who need to close their weak eye to shoot. There was even one bloke who was right handed, but left eye dominant. He held the pistol in his right hand but aimed with his left eye, closing his right...weirdo...:)

As for rifles, I close my weak (left) eye for all sights except for CQB where I use either iron sights or the EBS on my optics with both eyes open. Then again, there are guys who can shoot optics with both eyes open and find it helps them to acquire targets easier. Horses for courses.

- I agree - we're taught that a pistol is pretty much for ranges you can use a rock at. If its beyond throwing range use a rifle. Its both eyes open and dont f*** around.

[Sabre]

Do I know you? You just described me!

I don't know...are you a weirdo? :)


- I agree - we're taught that a pistol is pretty much for ranges you can use a rock at. If its beyond throwing range use a rifle. Its both eyes open and dont f*** around.

Indeed, up to 20-30m really. A pistol is for when shyte has gone downhill rapidly or for vehicles. Of course there's loads of fancy CP/BG kung fu shyte that you can do too, but this is more of a green army discussion. Although when you're bored and have a range plus a load of pistol ammo, you can become quite proficient at hitting ammo tins at 100m plus using the pistol at high elevation in the ****e. Not that it's much use, but as I say, if you're bored...

[StukaJr]

Yar, nice sight... Why not just go with a Parallax free red dot like Docter sight? Aligning a red dot in a hoopty loop may work at an indoor range and get everybody's panties in a bunch whom doesn't shoot enough p-)

Handgun shooting is largely about repeatability of the handgun position - I keep both eyes open and focus on the front sight, blurring out the target and the rear sights... My accuracy is largely dictated by how much I practiced dry firing the weeks before - a lot of causes for being off-target are caused by things that happen after the sight picture is acquired.

I sometimes will close one of my eyes when shooting at a target that's 25 yards or more away or I need to really hit a very small target. I close my eye when I can't get a front post picture when it's muddled against the target (dry-fire at TV playing a movie offers many instances where your sights blend in with intended target). I close my eye when shooting a .44 Magnum single action Ruger - because "I don't have bullets to give away like Candy". Then again, I can acquire almost the same sight picture with both eyes open with practice. Target shooting is cheating somewhat - it's always a dark point area against a light backdrop which in turn is against a darker backstop wall... I'm always at odds when shooting outside or in a gravel pit enviornment - sun comes up behind you and "blows out" your sight picture making you fall back on what you know, not your fancy "revolutionary" gun sight...

[Laworkerbee]

There was even one bloke who was right handed, but left eye dominant. He held the pistol in his right hand but aimed with his left eye, closing his right...weirdo...:)

You just described me :) which is why I now shoot with both eyes open.

[StukaJr]

You just described me :) which is why I now shoot with both eyes open.

The best solution for right hand/left eye dominance is a Limited Edition Blackwater SIG "Dominator Refurbirator" :

http://www.prolitegear.com/prolitegear/images/large/snow_peak_titanium_spork_lg.jpg

I'll bring mine tonight

[Laworkerbee]

Or Lee slapping the back of your head, that seemed to help me.

[Sabre]

You just described me :) which is why I now shoot with both eyes open.

This place is full of weirdos!

Oh, well. It is the internet...p-)

[StukaJr]

I shoot with both eyes closed!

Do I win the prize? p-)

(Of course the next person will claim to aim with their chakras and do one up on me... Oh well, easy come easy go)

[Laworkerbee]

I shoot with both eyes closed!

That is called "using the force" but also can be referred to as using "inshallah bullets" p-)

[StukaJr]

That is called "using the force" but also can be referred to as using "inshallah bullets" p-)

He may be blind, but he don't need no dog!

http://www.critcononline.com/images/blind%20fury%20poster.jpg

[ZoneOne]

I think I'll stick with this.

http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/3052/xssightstrit2e9c3042zn2.png

How do you like those, have you had any experience with the different dot sizes (large/small) to compare.

I've been thinking about making the purchase for my G19 - I'll take all the input on them I can get.

[Royal]

I shoot with both eyes closed!

Do I win the prize? p-)

Back in the day I did a sting instructing recruits - you'd be amazed how many shut their eyes when firing :)

I was taught to shoot pistol weak eye closed, I carried on with this technique when shooting competitions. Later in life I turned a whole load of rounds into cases learning 'fancy CP/BG kung fu shyte' and learned to shoot both eyes open (as I always had with a rifle).

[playtym]

How do you like those, have you had any experience with the different dot sizes (large/small) to compare.

I've been thinking about making the purchase for my G19 - I'll take all the input on them I can get.


No, just the large dot.

They're very fast to get on target. You can't miss that large front dot. As long as you see a "lollipop" you're going to hit what you're shooting at.

They're not too hot for shooting tight groups with that big front dot, but that's not what they're meant for. :)

[Durandal]

The whole point of the new sights is that you can aim with both eyes open (unlike in the systems you mentioned), which is supposed to make the aiming process much faster and intuitive. The idea is to create a kind of much more compact, simpler and cheaper version of the laser point sights.

rofl

If shoot enough you don't aim a pistol. You shoot a pistol. Not too sure what's up with the one eye closed thing.

Funny stuff.

[IDF_TANKER]

rofl

If shoot enough you don't aim a pistol. You shoot a pistol. Not too sure what's up with the one eye closed thing.

Funny stuff.

OK then.
.............

[delta 6]

its suprising that it took that long to come up with smthing so simple

[nullterm]

He may be blind, but he don't need no dog!

http://www.critcononline.com/images/blind%20fury%20poster.jpg

That poster makes Rutger Hauer look more like Chevy Chase in a National Lampoon movie.

[SMGLee]

its suprising that it took that long to come up with smthing so simple

Because it really doesn't fix anything that never broke in the first place.

I would hate to have to find that dot in a hurry through a smallish peep hole like this sight.

BTW: I always shoot with both of my eyes open, rifle or pistol, unless I am taking a shot from 200 yrds away with my rifle or 30yrd out with my pistol.

[rifledworld]

i try to shoot with two eyes open when i can, but naturally i tend to close my left eye(weaker eye) half way through the shoot. i have trouble focusing, this is with the AusStyer 1.5x mag, with two eyes, but it can be done with practise. pistols, i have the same problem, i dont know if its just me and cant focus properly, but after reading some of this thread i think others have the same problem with pistols, and that is keeping focus on the target and the front sights with both eyes open.

[SMGLee]

but after reading some of this thread i think others have the same problem with pistols, and that is keeping focus on the target and the front sights with both eyes open.

You shouldn't keep foucs on the target, you need to be aware of the target but you keep foucs on the front sight. target should almost be a slight blur as is the rear sight.

situation awreness, target identification, front sight foucs... pull trigger... recover... and repeat if necessary.

[rifledworld]

You shouldn't keep foucs on the target, you need to be aware of the target but you keep foucs on the front sight. target should almost be a slight blur as is the rear sight.

situation awreness, target identification, front sight foucs... pull trigger... recover... and repeat if necessary.

thanks alot for that, really appreciated, ill try it next time im on the range.

so look at target, algin rear sight with front sight on target but focus on front sight (obviously the rest gets blurry) fire.. repeat.

thanks alot man, cheers:hug: