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Partial_Panel
07-13-2007, 09:02 AM
Brown message to US: it's time to build, not destroy



Minister signals foreign policy shift ahead of PM's Washington trip

Patrick Wintour and Julian Borger
Friday July 13, 2007
The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/)

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A US checkpoint in Baghdad. Douglas Alexander said military power no longer equated to strength. Photograph: AFP/***** Images


The first clear signs that Gordon Brown will reorder Britain's foreign policy emerged last night when one of his closest cabinet allies urged the US to change its priorities and said a country's strength should no longer be measured by its destructive military power.
Douglas Alexander, the trade and development secretary, made his remarks in a speech in America, the first by a cabinet minister abroad since Mr Brown took power a fortnight ago.
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The speech represents a call for the US to rethink its foreign policy, and recognise the virtues of so-called "soft power" and acting through international institutions including the United Nations.
In what will be seen as an assertion of the importance of multilateralism in Mr Brown's foreign policy, Mr Alexander said: "In the 20th century a country's might was too often measured in what they could destroy. In the 21st century strength should be measured by what we can build together. And so we must form new alliances, based on common values, ones not just to protect us from the world, but ones which reach out to the world." He described this as "a new alliance of opportunity".
He added: "We need to demonstrate by our deeds, words and our actions that we are internationalist, not isolationist, multilateralist, not unilateralist, active and not passive, and driven by core values, consistently applied, not special interests."
With some neocons in the Bush administration nervous at the direction of Mr Brown's foreign policy, following the appointment of the former UN deputy secretary Lord Malloch-Brown as foreign minister, Mr Alexander went out of his way to underline the special relationship, but challenged the US and its partners "to recognise the importance of a rules based international system".
Mr Alexander's comments came at the end of a day in which President Bush had been forced to defend his policy in Iraq after a report on the effectiveness of the "surge" strategy concluded that the military situation had improved but political and economic targets had not been met.
Mr Brown is expected to fly to Washington shortly, and the groundwork for the trip is being prepared, with officials recognising the relationship between the new prime minister and George Bush will be very different from Mr Blair's.
In addition to Mr Alexander's speech, Simon McDonald, the prime minister's foreign policy adviser, is due to fly to Washington next week to meet Stephen Hadley, the US national security adviser. A Whitehall source said: "It will be more businesslike now, with less emphasis on the meeting of personal visions you had with Bush and Blair."
Another British official stressed that the US-UK "special relationship" was just as important to the new prime minister as it was to Mr Blair. However, the official added: "Bush and Blair went through 9/11 together. So maybe there is a difference." Last month, the outgoing foreign secretary, Margaret Beckett, raised eyebrows in the Bush administration with a speech calling for total nuclear disarmament. It was made in consultation with, and with the approval of, Mr Brown. A British source in Washington said the Brown team was asserting its independence "one policy speech at a time", adding: "It's a smarter way of doing it than have a knockdown argument."
In Mr Alexander's speech, to the Council on Foreign Relations in Washington, he repeatedly argued that although terrorism and extremism sometimes had to be combated by force, victory would not be secured by military means alone.
"Given the interconnected nature of the challenges we face, I would argue that we have to simultaneously be fighting to end poverty, to secure trade justice and to tackle conflict and climate change, as well as working to defeat terrorism and ensure the preservation of our security."
Although Mr Blair also repeatedly highlighted the importance of climate change and global poverty, there is likely to be a greater willingness from the Brown government to speak bluntly to the Americans.
Mr Alexander also urged the US to remain engaged on issues such as climate change and Africa, saying: "There are few global challenge that do not require the active engagement of the US." His remarks are designed to underline British determination that the US remains committed with other countries to forming a new UN-based agreement on the environment to replace the Kyoto treaty when it expires in 2012.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/foreignaffairs/story/0,,2125375,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront

I know most UK posters on MP.net aren't too thrilled over the new Brown Government, but this doesn't seem like an entirely bad thing. But I will admit to having little knowledge on the nature of UK politics.

CMNot
07-13-2007, 09:22 AM
Tip off on UK politics.

The following means...


a country's strength should no longer be measured by its destructive military power.

...Brown: "I'm going to slash military funding...to build millions of homes on perfectly good green belt land."

Partial_Panel
07-13-2007, 09:28 AM
Brown restates commitment to US alliance



Mark Tran
Friday July 13, 2007
Guardian Unlimited (http://www.guardian.co.uk/)

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sp.gifhttp://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2006/09/08/brown2.jpg
Gordon Brown said Britain and the US would remain close. Photograph: Danny Lawson/*****

Gordon Brown today insisted he would work closely with the Bush administration, after one of his closest cabinet allies hinted at a shift away from the US.
Mr Brown, who is scheduled to meet President George Bush in Washington in a few weeks' time, said Britain and the US would remain close.
"We will not allow people to separate us from the United States of America in dealing with the common challenges that we face around the world," Mr Brown told Radio Five Live. "I will continue to work, as Tony Blair did, very closely with the American administration."
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Downing Street had earlier moved to dispel the impression that Britain was seeking to distance itself from the Bush administration, following a speech in the US by Douglas Alexander, the trade and development secretary.
Mr Alexander had called in his speech for the virtues of "soft power" to be recognised. He told an audience in Washington that nations had to build "new alliances" that "reach out to the world".
In a speech to the Council on Foreign Relations which emphasised the importance of multilateralism as opposed to unilateralism, Mr Alexander said: "In the 20th century, a country's might was too often measured in what they could destroy. In the 21st century, strength should be measured by what we can build together. And so we must form new alliances based on common values, ones not just to protect us from the world, but ones which reach out to the world."
He added: "We need to demonstrate by our deeds, words and our actions that we are internationalist, not isolationist, multilateralist, not unilateralist, active and not passive, and driven by core values, consistently applied, not special interests."
The prime minister's spokesman rubbished suggestions in the press that the speech heralded a significant shift in relations between the UK and the US.
"I thought the interpretation that was put on Douglas Alexander's words was quite extraordinary," he said.
"To interpret this as saying anything at all about our relationship with the US is nonsense."
Mr Brown has spoken to Mr Bush three times since becoming prime minister, including a lengthy video conference call earlier this week.
He will make his first overseas trip as prime minister next week for talks with the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, in Berlin. Shortly afterwards he will have talks in Paris with the French president, Nicolas Sarkozy. He will then go to Washington.
In an interview with the BBC, Mr Alexander said Britain's relationship with Washington was important as part of a wider framework.
"Gordon Brown has made very clear that he regards a strong relationship with the US as being one of the fundamental bases of his foreign policy," he said. "But he also wants to see strong relationships with our partners within the European Union, and indeed growing and strong relationships with China and India, emerging powers in Asia."

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/foreignaffairs/story/0,,2125837,00.html

@CMN: In other words; it's not that different from our own:)

2Sheds_Jackson
07-13-2007, 11:22 AM
Oh what a blue sky apple pie and whipped cream speech. Our strength is to be measured by what we can build together. The naughty people are only acting out because of some kind of inequity that we can fix by throwing our money at it. Of course not directly - we mustn't directly or unilaterally undertake this sort of thing, because that might have the appearance of us doing something for our own benefit and not out of pure egalitarian goodness. No, the money has to be funneled through a 3rd party - the UN - that better knows what to do with it, even if that contravenes our interests.

shocker1
07-13-2007, 11:45 AM
I thought we were building. Too bad the enemy only destroys what we build. I must say no amount of good will with those we fight will make a hill of beans.


The speech represents a call for the US to rethink its foreign policy, and recognise the virtues of so-called "soft power" and acting through international institutions including the United Nations.
Well that has worked in the past.:roll:

Rictor
07-13-2007, 11:46 AM
I'm no fan of Brown, but he has a point. If military power equaled power, the United States should have been able to subdue a Third World nation like Iraq without any difficulties. Or any nation for that matter. Of course there are more intricacies involved - it ain't Napoleon's day anymore. Cannons and guns can no longer make people obedient.

Let's say that a very conservative estimate for the cost of the Iraq war would be around $500 billion.

$500,000,000,000 / 26,000,000 Iraqis = $20,000 per Iraqi

Does anyone question for a second that if the United States had simply handed out twenty grand in crisp bills to every Iraqi man, woman and child, that they would be have not only have thrown out Saddam immediately, but would have nothing but the greatest respect, admiration and loyalty for the US for the next century?

shocker1
07-13-2007, 11:51 AM
Does anyone question for a second that if the United States had simply handed out twenty grand in crisp bills to every Iraqi man, woman and child, that they would be have not only have thrown out Saddam immediately, but would have nothing but the greatest respect, admiration and loyalty for the US for the next century?
I am not gonna defend Mr Bushy here but judging how Islamic peoples react to other western things. They would take the money and many zealots in the lot would buy explosives and blow up the armored trucks as they leave.

Mr. JOSHUA
07-13-2007, 11:59 AM
I am not gonna defend Mr Bushy here but judging how Islamic peoples react to other western things. They would take the money and many zealots in the lot would buy explosives and blow up the armored trucks as they leave.


Yup.

This reminds of , "If I were elected President, I would fight a kinder, gentler war".

Anyone?

Anyone?

IMO, Brown just sunk himself to the bottom of a water filled tank like a lead weight with the people that were hoping he would lead them in a great time of need.

No, no, nevermind those 2 attempted car bombings or the ramming of a car sized molotov cocktail at an airport, those things do not matter, all that matters is that everyone needs to soften up.

WarriorMonk
07-13-2007, 12:27 PM
I'm no fan of Brown, but he has a point. If military power equaled power, the United States should have been able to subdue a Third World nation like Iraq without any difficulties.

If you mean subdue as in "totally frickin flatten and glass with no frickin survivors" then yes, there shouldn't be any problem - the problem was the strategy - "regime change" doesn't work, and COIN ops aren't always suited to a large army...

Brown needs to say "power is NOT ONLY measured by what we can destroy but by what we can build together," he SHOULD NOT SAY "power isn't measured by force but by building," because the measure of power has many dimensions, not only militarily but politically, economically, culturally, and socially.

2Sheds_Jackson
07-13-2007, 12:57 PM
I'm no fan of Brown, but he has a point. If military power equaled power, the United States should have been able to subdue a Third World nation like Iraq without any difficulties. Or any nation for that matter. Of course there are more intricacies involved - it ain't Napoleon's day anymore. Cannons and guns can no longer make people obedient.

I think that if Iraq proves anything, it's exactly the opposite. Iraq was made obedient via Saddam violently subduing them. The coalition doesn't have the luxury of applying that kind of brutality, and we see what happens. I'd be willing to wager that if we started being unrelentingly brutal, the area would fall into line rather quickly. As I've said from the beginning - this is a case of will, not raw capability. It does not bode well for the West, as we see how far each side is willing to go.



Does anyone question for a second that if the United States had simply handed out twenty grand in crisp bills to every Iraqi man, woman and child, that they would be have not only have thrown out Saddam immediately, but would have nothing but the greatest respect, admiration and loyalty for the US for the next century?

I disagree with your premise. Even if we accept your $500 billion figure, that money was not shoved into a volcano. It has for the most part gone right back into the US economy (buying goods and services, paying salaries and taxes). Therefore $500b is not the true cost. And of course there's the fact that if we tried to hand the Iraqis $500b, it would have gone to Saddam - who would who have doled it out in a manner guaranteed to solidify his power. In fact, we did funnel huge sums into Iraqi aid - and that's precisely what he did with it.

It's practical considerations like that which render the "build not destroy" strategies largely invalid IMHO.

Lazy Lob
07-13-2007, 01:05 PM
...Brown: "I'm going to slash military funding...to build millions of homes on perfectly good green belt land."

He'll do the first but not the second. He's a political coward who's put all his eggs in one basket.

Merfeller
07-13-2007, 01:17 PM
It is truly amazing that politicians can still use terms like "soft power" without being laughed off the stage. Soft power vs. the likes of al qaeda? Good luck.

CMNot
07-13-2007, 01:49 PM
Soft Power stopped Suez.

It still has its place.

Ordie
07-13-2007, 03:39 PM
"we could make no more tragic mistake than merely to concentrate on military strength. For if we did only this, the future would hold nothing for the world but an Age of Terror.

And so our second task is to do the constructive work of building a genuine peace. We must never become so preoccupied with our desire for military strength that we neglect those areas of economic development, trade, diplomacy, education, ideas and principles where the foundations of real peace must be laid.

The only answer to a <Soviet> regime that wages total cold war is to wage total peace. This means bringing to bear every asset of our personal and national lives upon the task of building the conditions in which security and peace can grow."

-President Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1958 State of the Union Address

Something to think about.......

Mr. JOSHUA
07-13-2007, 03:55 PM
Last time I heard, China was the one building up its military forces in a suprising way and at the same time has a bad reputation on its human rights record.

America and the UK are pretty well balanced between the two, AQ on the other hand only sees violence as the only way to achieve their objective.

So if they want violence, I say give it to them, diplomatic efforts will not resolve this problem.

Winning the hearts and minds of the people who are still teeter-tottering on who is gonna benefit them is something both countries have undertaken and are doing quite well.

What else does Brown want. There's not much more you can do without capitulating or giving something up in return for nothing, these people are never gonna give back as much as we would give.

The more and more I think about it, Brown is starting to think like Bush by thinking that saying certain things is gonna get the opposition on his side.

CPLHUNTER
07-13-2007, 04:11 PM
How about passing this kind gentle message onto AQ...lets build not destroy.

WarriorMonk
07-13-2007, 06:34 PM
How about passing this kind gentle message onto AQ...lets build not destroy.

then they build their "Islamic Caliphate" over our dead bodies...FUN!