Universal Health Care

[Apathy]

Do you support universal health care in the United States?

[Roy Batty]

Don't know, but I sure support it up here. :D

[PanzerMaster]

I am not an US Citizen, I am from Europe. Can I vote in the poll?

[Apathy]

I am not an US Citizen, I am from Europe. Can I vote in the poll?

I want to see what Americans think of socialized health care, so yeah i'd prefer if only US citizens voted.

[SBL]

Only when I need it.

[Apathy]

Only when I need it.

So when another American gets sick, thats not your problem.

[MEGR]

Might want to change your thread title around a bit to attract the crowd you're looking for..

Oh, and I voted NO.

[Apathy]

Might want to change your thread title around a bit to attract the crowd you're looking for..

Oh, and I voted NO.

Thanks.

.....................................

[SBL]

So when another American gets sick, thats not your problem.

Well, that all depends, doesn't it?

[11 Bravo]

Socialized healthcare.....nope I'll pass. I'd rather have some kind of handle myself on my healthcare than a disgruntled government bureaucrat ANYDAY.

PS - America already has a cancerous form of universal care ....it's medicaid/SSI. For example in my rural area there are oodles of worthless slugs that manage a way into welfare/SSI by claiming some form of inbred disfunction that gets them on the dole. And golly gee wiz...they get a medical card to go with it.

[Apathy]

Well, that all depends, doesn't it?

I dont get it. Wouldn't you sacrifice yourself for your country? If your answer is yes, then why cant you sacrifice part of your salary for your fellow man? Of course, if your answer is no, then I guess your position makes sense.

[Herrmannek]

NO. Its harmful idea... IN a world where there is no free meal, you can't expect something like free medicine... So if I have to pay for my health I want to do that myself...

[shocker1]

Socialized health care will be a money bank for the Federal Government to "borrow" from. Your taxes in particular small business taxes will increase. I say we improve the existing Medicaid and State low income programs that already exist. Yet these smaller programs are all a mess. Creating a huge Federal Health bureaucracy is very unhealthy.

Just remember the Association Health Care bill that has been killed three times in congress would have allowed me to buy insurance at half the rate for my employees. With such a cheap rate and the value of happy employees I would increase the benefits. As would most other members of my local Chamber of Commerce.

Oh yeah I voted no.

[SBL]

I dont get it. Wouldn't you sacrifice yourself for your country? If your answer is yes, then why cant you sacrifice part of your salary for your fellow man? Of course, if your answer is no, then I guess your position makes sense.

Who is sick and why are they sick? Where exactly will my money go? What sorts of changes will this mean for my healthcare?

[shocker1]

We need a certain death rate to keep SS up and running. Just think of all those poor souls that put hard earned money into that with no interest. Then to sadly meet an untimely end and Uncle Sam makes a pay day. Do you really want these people running you health care? They take good retirement money from you at no return on the investment, then hand it out like candy to those who "master" the system. Just like your former nest egg you will never regain it again.

[Apathy]

Who is sick and why are they sick? Where exactly will my money go?

Why dont you ask your insurance company? Do you actually think that the money you give them is only used on your health?

[Herrmannek]

For poor is charity not state robbery...

[Bert]

'Universal health care' is a pipe dream and a spending fest which will be under endless 'improvement' by the centralising socialists attempting to implement it, until it finally collapses under its own bureaucratic weight and carries severe backlash. The federal government is already printing more money than ever to cover its spendfest -- it would only get worse with a scheme like this.

If the government would stop meddling in the market, stop stealing from citizens to fund BS like this and allow the free market to solve the healthcare issue by itself, there would be a solution. Right now the FDA and draconic government regulation prevents the market from providing affordable alternatives to the public health system.

I'm not American, I voted before reading the other posts so you can deduct one 'No' vote. This is coming from a citizen of a statist country with a 'universal health care' system already in place, though, and it's a bubble. A bubble that has bursted several times over, but keeps getting sloppily patched up with taxpayer money.

[SBL]

Why dont you ask your insurance company? Do you actually think that the money you give them is only used on your health?

You're missing the point. If you can prove that my tax dollars would be put to good use and for people that actually need it, and wouldn't disappear into a bureaucratic black hole then I'd give it more serious thought.

[Zoomie]

I dont get it. Wouldn't you sacrifice yourself for your country? If your answer is yes, then why cant you sacrifice part of your salary for your fellow man? Of course, if your answer is no, then I guess your position makes sense.
Why should I sacrifice my money for people who shouldn't be getting government benefits, or they've put themselves in this position, and are finally suffering the consequences of their decision?

[MEGR]

'Universal health care' is a pipe dream and a spending fest which will be under endless 'improvement' by the centralising socialists attempting to implement it, until it finally collapses under its own bureaucratic weight and carries severe backlash. The federal government is already printing more money than ever to cover its spendfest -- it would only get worse with a scheme like this.

If the government would stop meddling in the market, stop stealing from citizens to fund BS like this and allow the free market to solve the healthcare issue by itself, there would be a solution. Right now the FDA and draconic government regulation prevents the market from providing affordable alternatives to the public health system.

I'm not American, I voted before reading the other posts so you can deduct one 'No' vote. This is coming from a citizen of a statist country with a 'universal health care' system already in place, though, and it's a bubble. A bubble that has bursted several times over, but keeps getting sloppily patched up with taxpayer money.

Interesting insight. That's one of my qualms with universal anything. With the government in such disarray, can you trust them to take care of your health?

[prebanman]

also one must take into account the fact it would become just another moral stomping grounds for the more chest-thumping politico's that manage to get elected.
If we had had a universal system in place during the current administration, what would you all say the chances are that certain controversial (at least in their eyes) practices would not have been covered at all? things like contreception for minors, abortions, etc.
All I have to do is look at the schvio (sp?) fiasco to tell me that I dont want the government anywhere near me when I need a doctor.

-patry

[Apathy]

You're missing the point. If you can prove that my tax dollars would be put to good use and for people that actually need it, and wouldn't disappear into a bureaucratic black hole then I'd give it more serious thought.

I cant. That is a problem with our government and I have no god damn idea what we are supposed to do about our government's corruption.

[Hollis]

I cant. That is a problem with our government and I have no god damn idea what we are supposed to do about our government's corruption.


On this issue you can not blame the government for everything. The whole medical industry need to be thought out better, along with the litigation world and some other factors.

Universal health care is not necessary evil of wrong. It has some strong merits to it, IF (big IF) can be set up to be benefical for all concerned.

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

I voted no.

I believe government is inefficient, and putting it in charge of every citizen's health care would become an unsupportable burden. If the costs of health care can be managed, then I believe more people will have access to medical services.

HMOs were an interesting attempt by industry to help control the costs of health care, but the few restrictions that they placed on access to doctors and certain services made them reviled.

[vinny_121_ND]

I can understand why some politicians don't want a universal health care system. It's one reason. Cost. Let me ask american members here how many americans are obese. What are the long term affects of obesity? They are, diabetes, high blood pressure, cardiovascular problems, heart disease, cancer etc.

Now how much money is the government willing to put out to save people who became obese by their lifestyle of fast food, and 7 hours of tv, compounded with their 9 to 5 sit at a desk lifestyle, plus 4 hours of sleep a night? It would cost the government billions to trillions to help them, on top of other health care related problems.
http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/dnpa/obesity/economic_consequences.htm

Am I a supporter of universal health care? yes. But health comes down to how well you take care of yourself first. Obese people expect the government to have a quick fix solution to get them 'healthy' again.
Future projections of obesity is this:
http://www.boingboing.net/2005/08/25/american_obesity_sky.html

If the government had all the money in the world, by all means fund a universal health care system.

[John Crighton]

I voted no. I see how the other social welfare systems are abused and do not want to pay for others laziness and greed any more than I must.

My health is mine to deal with. I do not want to pay for someone else's stupidity / mistake / etc.

[Chulo]

i voted no.. because we would be just turing into commies.. :P

thats actually besides the point, universal health care has its own share of problems and idont what to wait for 2 years to get an operation ... plus u see most of the best medical hospitals and advancements made in the u.s in the past 100 years..

[grimupnorth]

I'm a brit and glad we have our NHS its not perfect but better than nothing.
most of you seem not to want a free health care because you don't trust your leaders with the cash

[Herrmannek]

I'm a brit and glad we have our NHS its not perfect but better than nothing.
most of you seem not to want a free health care because you don't trust your leaders with the cash

because I want to spend my money when I need them and as I need them. I'm grown man and I don't need state to wipe my ass against my will...

[Ddavid]

I voted no because that would ruin the juicy insurance business. Damn, who care if you have to sell your house to pay for your cancer treatment ?

[grimupnorth]

because I want to spend my money when I need them and as I need them. I'm grown man and I don't need state to wipe my ass against my will...

I understand, but you all pay tax to the government already which covers
the emergency services, why not cover health care as well ?
i watched Michael moores film sicko:)

[Herrmannek]

I understand, but you all pay tax to the government already which covers
the emergency services, why not cover health care as well ?
i watched Michael moores film sicko:)

We pay them to take care of things we can't... Army, Courts, Law Enforcement, Creating the law, generally keeping state safe. Almost anything else should be Peoples own responsibility...

[WarriorMonk]

If you're going to make universal healthcare possible in the US, then don't just f**king GRAFT the Canadian or UK system onto the US...

[shocker1]

I understand, but you all pay tax to the government already which covers
the emergency services, why not cover health care as well ?
i watched Michael moores film sicko:)
Damn when are you Brits gonna learn Americans hate more taxes. On top of that every government entitlement program is a bulging bureaucracy that swallows up money and eats poor people.

Medicare, Medicaid, SSI are all abused, broke, in the red, all have a stack of congressional IOU's in the agency safe. Most states have assistance for low income people to afford insurance. Fix the needy assistance programs, do not add more.

I am also glad you enlightened yourself with sicko and the lard ass.p-)

[ibstolidude]

I understand, but you all pay tax to the government already which covers
the emergency services, why not cover health care as well ?
i watched Michael moores film sicko:)
actually all "emergency" services are not covered.

[Vandervahn]

We pay them to take care of things we can't... Army, Courts, Law Enforcement, Creating the law, generally keeping state safe. Almost anything else should be Peoples own responsibility...

And how do most of the institutions keep the state "safe"? By protecting lives and property. Health care does the same. I would be VERY worried at the amount of private bankruptcy caused by illness in the USA. And that includes people who actually ARE insured but cannot pay their additional fees - or even worse, are turned down by their insurances.

You CANNOT ensure a nationwide service relying on private insurance enterprises. The aim of an enterprise will always be to make money. For the same reason, all the firefighters, policemen and other officials are government-paid: Because they are necessary for a working community regardless of their sometimes uneconomic existence.

Also, some people here seem to overlook that in most universal health care systems you STILL have the choice to sign up to a private healthcare instead of the universal insurance for added benefits. So essentially, one can very easily have the best of both worlds.

Lastly, that idiotic waiting time argument has no merit. We all want a proper and thorough treatment, right? That means others want and require the same, which is what leads to OCCASIONAL waiting times. Does it really matter whether you wait 30 minutes or an hour for a non-emergency treatment? Apart from that and setting the overused Canada figures aside, many universal health care nations do not have huge waiting time problems, also not for specialist treatment. Maybe the problem in these cases is not the system but how it is applied, hmm? I´ve never met anyone having problems getting an appointment in due time in MY country.

And I also cannot recall stories about people dying on hospital floors waiting for emergency treatment from anywhere else than the USA. Now thats a waiting time I surely wouldn´t want to accept.

[Abolith]

having worked and have family who currently work in Social services I can tell you from first hand exp, a universal healthcare system won't work. Our government is far too inept, corrupt and the lazy bastards who come in for SSI, welfare, foodstamps ect.. are the same ones who would abuse the crap outta a universal healthcare system and drive MY costs ever higher...very similar to the almost-universal heathcare system we already have. The system is broke, mostly due to the morons in power interferring with it, and making it a universal system as opposed to the current system won't help anything. the system needs to be rebuilt from the ground up without interferrence from big brother..



oh and I voted no

[shocker1]

And how do most of the institutions keep the state "safe"? By protecting lives and property. Health care does the same. I would be VERY worried at the amount of private bankruptcy caused by illness in the USA. And that includes people who actually ARE insured but cannot pay their additional fees - or even worse, are turned down by their insurances.

You CANNOT ensure a nationwide service relying on private insurance enterprises. The aim of an enterprise will always be to make money. For the same reason, all the firefighters, policemen and other officials are government-paid: Because they are necessary for a working community regardless of their sometimes uneconomic existence.

Also, some people here seem to overlook that in most universal health care systems you STILL have the choice to sign up to a private healthcare instead of the universal insurance for added benefits. So essentially, one can very easily have the best of both worlds.

Lastly, that idiotic waiting time argument has no merit. We all want a proper and thorough treatment, right? That means others want and require the same, which is what leads to OCCASIONAL waiting times. Does it really matter whether you wait 30 minutes or an hour for a non-emergency treatment? Apart from that and setting the overused Canada figures aside, many universal health care nations do not have huge waiting time problems, also not for specialist treatment. Maybe the problem in these cases is not the system but how it is applied, hmm? I´ve never met anyone having problems getting an appointment in due time in MY country.

And I also cannot recall stories about people dying on hospital floors waiting for emergency treatment from anywhere else than the USA. Now thats a waiting time I surely wouldn´t want to accept.
My wife is an RN at the local Regional medical center. No one is turned away, no one lays on the floor ignored because they don't have insurance. This is utter rubbish. Also low income families have programs already in place. Then lets examine these entitlement systems already in place in the US. Rampant fraud, mis management, piss poor service are the trade mark of US government programs. An individual can purchase a BCBSGA health plan with 100 a month. If you need my taxes to pay that then you need to cut out some spending, better have a need, better not have kids by the dozen without proper means to take care of them. Not to mention the un documented people out there using the system.

Who do you think will be hit the hardest by such a huge money train? Me, the small business owner who pays far too much tax now to every Tom, **** and Harry agency. State, Local, Federal, SSI, Medicare, Peach Care, county inventory tax, oil waste environmental tax, boat tax, gas tax. I am ****ing sick of taxes. Anymore and you will have three unemployed mechanics and a pissed off engineer who has to work for somebody again.

[Elmo]

We pay them to take care of things we can't... Army, Courts, Law Enforcement, Creating the law, generally keeping state safe. Almost anything else should be Peoples own responsibility...

Ok. Hopefully things turn out fine for you. No unexpected troubles. As it seems otherwise you'd have to go on the streets and beg in order to get some "charity" which you so dearly endorsed on one of your previous posts.

I mean, come on. Isn't it a bit silly to act all social darwinist? Is it because of what your country experienced back in the day?

[grimupnorth]

so your main reasons for not having free health care is:
Rampant fraud, mis management, piss poor service
government is far too inept, corrupt , abuse of the system.

so it's not about the higher taxes or health care itself, its mis management.

[shocker1]

so your main reasons for not having free health care is:
Rampant fraud, mis management, piss poor service
government is far too inept, corrupt , abuse of the system.

so it's not about the higher taxes or health care itself, its mis management.
Yes and no, higher taxes would cause a ripple effect in the economy and make more needy people. The fraud and the mis management is the primary reason.

Anyone with kids making less than $30,000 a year can get a cheap Peach Care plan in Georgia. Why not fix the needy programs? Ask anyone who relies on Medicare and SSI how well the government serves them.

Convince me this system will not look like every other entitlement system then I will listen. Then we have masses of undocumented people here that the census that will be used to allocate funds does not know about them creating a system in the red right off the bat.

[plato]

one picture is worth one thousand words:
http://ucatlas.ucsc.edu/health/spend/cost_longlife75.gif
This is just wrong!

[DaGreatRV]

We also have a nice way of universal healthcare, everyone is forced by law to have health insurrance. :)

[grimupnorth]

We also have a nice way of universal healthcare, everyone is forced by law to have health insurrance. :)

what if your poor and can not afford to pay?

[shocker1]

what if your poor and can not afford to pay?
Medicaid, State Assistance, Public health clinics paid for by state taxes, ect..
While these systems need fixing we do have a means for them. What we have is people who can not afford it because they spend beyond their means. Take a look in the drive ways of the local public housing. There are nicer cars than mine and they are wearing cloths I only dream of buying. i am all for funding needy programs with my taxes. Not funding the likes of another Medicaid or food stamp program for a bunch of free loaders to abuse.

[grimupnorth]

Yes and no, higher taxes would cause a ripple effect in the economy and make more needy people. The fraud and the mis management is the primary reason.

Anyone with kids making less than $30,000 a year can get a cheap Peach Care plan in Georgia. Why not fix the needy programs? Ask anyone who relies on Medicare and SSI how well the government serves them.

Convince me this system will not look like every other entitlement system then I will listen. Then we have masses of undocumented people here that the census that will be used to allocate funds does not know about them creating a system in the red right off the bat.

I think the majority of the U.S must be happy with the system.
its only since the movie i picked up on any disapproval.

[grimupnorth]

Medicaid, State Assistance, Public health clinics paid for by state taxes, ect..
While these systems need fixing we do have a means for them. What we have is people who can not afford it because they spend beyond their means. Take a look in the drive ways of the local public housing. There are nicer cars than mine and they are wearing cloths I only dream of buying. i am all for funding needy programs with my taxes. Not funding the likes of another Medicaid or food stamp program for a bunch of free loaders to abuse.

freeloaders i know what you mean

i wondered which country DaGreatRV (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=21093) was from? didn't know he was from the states.

[MEGR]

I think the majority of the U.S must be happy with the system.
its only since the movie i picked up on any disapproval.

Michael Moore is presenting one side. If he had any objectivity, he would present both sides and let the viewer decide. Some people will always be unhappy for a variety of reasons, and nothing will change their minds.

I'm happy with my healthcare here in the US. The day I had appendicitis, I was moved into the ER and stayed there for one night. One day-- diagnosed, moved to ER, and stayed in the hospital. I'm not going out there and calling all other healthcare systems crappy, but I have had nothing to complain about here in the USA. All my experiences have been positive.

[shocker1]

We also have a nice way of universal healthcare, everyone is forced by law to have health insurrance. :)
Yeah, how did that work out up there? My state did the same with car insurance, which in turn caused rates to increase for some reason.

[Desk Jockey]

Since the compulsory insurance law for Massachusetts went into effect on July 1st 130,000 or about 1/3 of the people who had were uninsured last year now have coverage. However, most of these folks are poorer and probably would have qualified under Mass Health.

It will be interesting to see what happens when December 31st rolls around and people who are not insured face tax penalties. Also, we will see what happens to businesses that emply 10 or more workers who are now obligated to provide insurance.

In 2008 the penalty for being uninsured will be the loss of a 219 USD tax break, the next year will be 1/2 of a monthly insurance premium. Be interesting to watch.

[Zoomie]

so your main reasons for not having free health care is:
Rampant fraud, mis management, piss poor service
government is far too inept, corrupt , abuse of the system.

so it's not about the higher taxes or health care itself, its mis management.

You forgot about lazy people who abuse the system because they allow themselves to become obese and such, which in turn has repercussions down the line

[4thPointOfContact]

We also have a nice way of universal healthcare, everyone is forced by law to have health insurrance. :)


what if your poor and can not afford to pay?

If you're poor and cannot afford to pay for Your Own health care then you have two choices- - -

A) Ask for charity from your fellow compasionate man.
B) Use force and take the money from them without their permission. Threaten them with prison if they do not "voluntarily contribute" to help your misfortune. AKA Government and the Force of Law

[grimupnorth]

Since the compulsory insurance law for Massachusetts went into effect on July 1st 130,000 or about 1/3 of the people who had were uninsured last year now have coverage. However, most of these folks are poorer and probably would have qualified under Mass Health.

It will be interesting to see what happens when December 31st rolls around and people who are not insured face tax penalties. Also, we will see what happens to businesses that emply 10 or more workers who are now obligated to provide insurance.

In 2008 the penalty for being uninsured will be the loss of a 219 USD tax break, the next year will be 1/2 of a monthly insurance premium. Be interesting to watch.

well that sounds like our national insurance, which everyone has to pay.
but ours goes to the government, then to the NHS.

why should the employer have to pay, if the workers already have their own?

[shocker1]

well that sounds like our national insurance, which everyone has to pay.
but ours goes to the government, then to the NHS.

why should the employer have to pay, if the workers already have their own?
See the problem with this. It is the employers that foot the bill. Somebody has to pay for it, the government is not paying for it. Taxes pay for it or a new deduction from pay checks or increased taxes on small business.

I do not fault Mass for their system. These issues should be fixed at the state level where it is harder to loose money in the Federal black hole. States are much better at working with the economic realities of their part of the country and can tailor a better system.

The fat cats in DC are NOT a good answer to this problem. It will be in the same shape as our social security which by the way things are going I am just throwing money away into that. I probably will never see my SSI and the retirement age by then will be 90 with a $100 a month check and the same old $250 death benefit.

[Rakki]

Assuming poor and rich people catch the same diseases and stuffer the same accidents ..... and assuming that poor people can't afford that health care in the first place.... the fact that there is a hell of a lot more poor people than there are rich people should set off alarm bells.

[signatory]

As a Swede I can with 100% certainty say...

NO!

Avoid that BS. Let each state make up its own mind.

[kosse]

Assuming poor and rich people catch the same diseases and stuffer the same accidents ..... and assuming that poor people can't afford that health care in the first place.... the fact that there is a hell of a lot more poor people than there are rich people should set off alarm bells.

In western countries there is usually a large middle class and only a small amount of really poor people. Free healthcare should for people who are in need - not for everyone to abuse.

I live in Finland and I'm not happy with our universal healthcare. It's inefficient and costs unbelievable amounts of money. The queues to certain treatments can be months and sometimes even years. Meanwhile the operating rooms are empty while doctors make money in private hospitals.

Let's take my parents as an example of ordinary people trying to meet their needs with the public healthcare. They have always paid their taxes are now getting old and have started to need the services provided by the health care system. And do they get what they need? NO. Even to get a small treatment to be able to work the last few years requires a hell of a fight. So in short, our system sucks. It costs unbielievably much and does not deliver. With the money thrown away into the system over the decades my parents could propably afford the best possible treatment in a private hospital.

[shorty]

The fat cats in DC are NOT a good answer to this problem. It will be in the same shape as our social security which by the way things are going I am just throwing money away into that. I probably will never see my SSI and the retirement age by then will be 90 with a $100 a month check and the same old $250 death benefit. Regarding that, I seem to have read a page last evening that said something almost to the same effect. By the time I'm old enough to retire (I'm 19), the retirement age could be well near mid 80's age. I doubt I'll live long enough to reap the benefits of what I'll be putting it. Oh and I voted no for intergrated health care.

[signatory]

Let's take my parents as an example of ordinary people trying to meet their needs with the public healthcare. They have always paid their taxes are now getting old and have started to need the services provided by the health care system. And do they get what they need? NO. Even to get a small treatment to be able to work the last few years requires a hell of a fight. So in short, our system sucks. It costs unbielievably much and does not deliver. With the money thrown away into the system over the decades my parents could propably afford the best possible treatment in a private hospital.

Same here.. that's why private healthcare insurances is selling like hot cakes now, many companies even include it in their employment benefits just so their people can go straight to a doctor and then back to work. Same thing happening in Finland?

A hip replacement under the public system.. easily 56 weeks, but with a (low-cost) private insurance it's under 2 weeks waiting time.. the insurance doesnt pay for the operation the taxes do.. what the insurance do is cut the waiting time since you go to a private clinic instead.

But that's like paying twice for something our ridiculous taxes already should cover..

[Son of Damian]

From my personal experiences, and I have had plenty, in the American medical system I have to say every thing has become profit orientated. 99% of the doctors I've meet seem more interested in earning a big pay check every month than helping me. Hospitals too, the bill I got after my episode of viral enduced Myocarditis was around 35 grand, 10 thou of which was just the hosptial stay; all three days of it. And 5 thou was for three jack @$$ doctors who were sent to see me on the second day for no freaking reason other than to pump money from me. (I complained to my insurance about this, no f****** way I was going to pay there bills) Each stayed about 10-15 minutes and did nothing but bitch about a doctor I had seen for my Lyme disease; they also had the nerve to tell me that there is no way I could have Lyme disease because I live in Texas (you can actually get Lyme here but it's not very common), when I told them I'm not from Texas and have spent a number of years in Pennsylvania, New York, and Rhode Island they just made some stupid face that said your an idiot.

And the number of doctors/nurses of Indian extraction I have meet is absurd. I don't have a problem with this, I do have a problem with the fact that the majority of the ones I've meet have been rude, snobby, and have an air about them that says they're only in it for the money. I now the actions of a few don't represent the whole, I'm just saying that has been my experience.

If the medical system became about helping people and not about earning lots of money we would all be a lot better off. But since I know this won't happen then universal health care would be nice, not that its going to be much better than whatwe've got now :-(

[Vorian]

Free health care is better than nothing. A couple of years ago, my mother had to be hospitalised for two years and two surgeries. If we had to pay for it, we would have gone bankrupt by now.

[Lamer]

I am happy we have universal health care. The doctors take care of you because they want to help, you dont have to wory about the cost od your treatment...

I cant imagine not getting the best treatment just because you are not rich...

[DaGreatRV]

what if your poor and can not afford to pay?

The basic insurrance is about 90euros (I pay 100 because I have an extra youth package, but I get a 34euro subsidy for no reason at all:))
I live in the Netherlands and every bum living on the streets has a right to 900euros per month(no, you dont need a permanent adress or bank account) cash.
This system is very recent reform, I first paid 40euros a month :-(.

BTW, anything wich is an emergency is free and everyone under 18 is insured for free.

[Buckeye67]

All of the efficiency of the Post Office with all of the compassion of the IRS.

Voted "no".

[grimupnorth]

All of the efficiency of the Post Office with all of the compassion of the IRS.

Voted "no".
rofl

I was told, down under has some of the best doctors and best hospitals and are really top of the line in efficiency, some of my family live in Perth and Sydney. still you live and learn

[Zoomie]

All of the efficiency of the Post Office with all of the compassion of the IRS.

Voted "no".

Somewhere in there you've gotta add the "Customer service of the DMV" as well. p-)

[Kippari]

I like our healthcare system. I can just walk in to a hospital with a broken arm and they will fix it for me without any additional cost. In fact i did just that a couple of years ago.:) Also my dad some cardial malfunction that would have to be operated or he would have croaked after some time. The doc told that the operation will cost about 70000€. He had to pay around 500€ for the food costs and staying at the hospital for 2weeks.

[Ordie]

Somewhere in there you've gotta add the "Customer service of the DMV" as well. p-)

Its no different than dealing with a private HMO today.

Try going to an unaffiliated hospital and have your HMO pay.

The system is corrupt, broken, and failing.

[Kaapeli]

In western countries there is usually a large middle class and only a small amount of really poor people. Free healthcare should for people who are in need - not for everyone to abuse.

I live in Finland and I'm not happy with our universal healthcare. It's inefficient and costs unbelievable amounts of money. The queues to certain treatments can be months and sometimes even years. Meanwhile the operating rooms are empty while doctors make money in private hospitals.

Actually the Finnish healthcare system is cheapest per capita in all of OECD countries.
So I wouldn't call it expensive.

http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapshot/chcm010307oth.cfm

[Son of Damian]

The system is corrupt, broken, and failing.

Exactly, and the people in charge or our country should be doing something about it but they all have money (and I believe they have some special government medical coverage, god for bid one of the worthless S**** dies/gets sick while in offfice) so they don't have a F****** clue what it is like to pay an obscene medical bill.

[Buckeye67]

rofl

I was told, down under has some of the best doctors and best hospitals and are really top of the line in efficiency, some of my family live in Perth and Sydney. still you live and learn

I'm a septic*. p-)





*married an aussie.

[plato]

From my personal experiences, and I have had plenty, in the American medical system I have to say every thing has become profit orientated. 99% of the doctors I've meet seem more interested in earning a big pay check every month than helping me. --------
This reminds me of my EMT-B class. My instructor referred to the field as "in this business". He introduced each guest instructor as "xxxx is the best in the business...". I still remember the class on splinting, he told us never ever document the splint as "cardboard splint", it should always be recorded as "rigid conforming splint", because if we call it "cardboard", then we wouldn't be able to charge $500 for it.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Health care should be classed as a basic fundamental human right free of any pangs of class, income and profit.

[signatory]

Health care should be classed as a basic fundamental human right free of any pangs of class, income and profit.

No matter how bad it is or how long you have to wait for the care.

...

I don't think that's the issue here. Not "should" but a "how". I know some idealists believe there's a unlimited amount of resources for their programs.. but not so in reality... there's always a bill to pay.

[Hessian]

Do you support universal health care in the United States?


NO, I have seen the teeth of people in EU and the result of their universial health care. I also have seen the people come from Canada to get health care here in the States even though they have universal health care in Canada.

When people need health care here in the States they get it, I take people who are arrested to the hospital and they are NEVER refused even though the hospital knows the person has no coverage. My Wife is a RN and her hospital CAN'T refuse anyone so many people who are not here legally go there for FREE medical treatment.

We then with coverage pay the bill.... nice eh!

[Olybrius]

NO, I have seen the teeth of people in EU and the result of their universial health care. I also have seen the people come from Canada to get health care here in the States even though they have universal health care in Canada.


my teeth are perfect, thxs
better to make comparisons with facts ...

an example



The French Lesson in Health Care
The nation's system isn't quite as superb as Sicko maintains, but it's pretty good

Michael Moore's documentary Sicko trumpets France as one of the most effective providers of universal health care. His conclusions and fist-in-your-gut approach may drive some Americans up the wall. But whatever you think of Moore, the French system--a complex mix of private and public financing--offers valuable lessons for would-be health-care reformers in the U.S.

In Sicko, Moore lumps France in with the socialized systems of Britain, Canada, and Cuba. In fact, the French system is similar enough to the U.S. model that reforms based on France's experience might work in America. The French can choose their doctors and see any specialist they want. Doctors in France, many of whom are self- employed, are free to prescribe any care they deem medically necessary . "The French approach suggests it is possible to solve the problem of financing universal coverage...[without] reorganizing the entire system," says Victor G. Rodwin, professor of health policy and management at New York University.

France also demonstrates that you can deliver stellar results with this mix of public and private financing. In a recent World Health Organization health-care ranking, France came in first, while the U.S. scored 37th, slightly better than Cuba and one notch above Slovenia. France's infant death rate is 3.9 per 1,000 live births, compared with 7 in the U.S., and average life expectancy is 79.4 years, two years more than in the U.S. The country has far more hospital beds and doctors per capita than America, and far lower rates of death from diabetes and heart disease. The difference in deaths from respiratory disease, an often preventable form of mortality, is particularly striking: 31.2 per 100,000 people in France, vs. 61.5 per 100,000 in the U.S.

That's not to say the French have solved all health-care riddles. Like every other nation, France is wrestling with runaway health-care inflation. That has led to some hefty tax hikes, and France is now considering U.S.-style health-maintenance organization tactics to rein in costs. Still, some 65% of French citizens express satisfaction with their system, compared with 40% of U.S. residents. And France spends just 10.7% of its gross domestic product on health care, while the U.S. lays out 16%, more than any other nation.

To grasp how the French system works, think about Medicare for the elderly in the U.S., then expand that to encompass the entire population. French medicine is based on a widely held value that the healthy should pay for care of the sick. Everyone has access to the same basic coverage through national insurance funds, to which every employer and employee contributes. The government picks up the tab for the unemployed who cannot gain coverage through a family member.

SAFETY NET

But the french system is much more generous to its entire population than the U.S. is to its seniors. Unlike with Medicare, there are no deductibles, just modest co- payments that are dismissed for the chronically ill. Additionally, almost all French buy supplemental insurance, similar to Medigap, which reduces their out-of-pocket costs and covers extra expenses such as private hospital rooms, eyeglasses, and dental care.

In France, the sicker you get, the less you pay. Chronic diseases, such as diabetes, and critical surgeries, such as a coronary bypass, are reimbursed at 100%. Cancer patients are treated free of charge. Patients suffering from colon cancer, for instance, can receive Genentech Inc.'s (DNA) Avastin without charge. In the U.S., a patient may pay $48,000 a year.

France particularly excels in prenatal and early childhood care. Since 1945 the country has built a widespread network of thousands of health-care facilities, called Protection Maternelle et Infantile (PMI), to ensure that every mother and child in the country receives basic preventive care. Children are evaluated by a team of private-practice pediatricians, nurses, midwives, psychologists, and social workers. When parents fail to bring their children in for regular checkups, social workers are dispatched to the family home.


...



http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/jun2007/gb20070628_579158.htm
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/jun2007/gb20070613_921562.htm

so about Universal health care in US ?, i don't care you're free to live with your wonderful healthcare ;)

[shocker1]

so about Universal health care in US ?, i don't care you're free to live with your wonderful healthcare ;)
I have had Melanoma cancer 2nd stage and spent very little of my own money. Sure i have insurance that I pay for but my taxes are low. The Feds have absolutely no say on my health care and the streets are not filled in ungrateful overly entitled unemployed. We have problems sure but my State will take care of that. Low income families making less than $30,000USD can get Peach Care from the state. People just don't want to be responsible for anything anymore.

Europeans do not understand states rights and such. You will when the Brussels politicians make all your health care decisions and your country just pays into a big European health care pot. Would you like that?

Maybe your politicians have more integrity than mine but I do not want mine near anymore of my money.

[Olybrius]

Europeans do not understand states rights and such. You will when the Brussels makes all your health care decisions and your country just pays into a big European health care pot. Would you like that?

i would have no problems with that if this "new european system" is proven better for everyone. it looks like you have a form of ideologic bloc which prevent you to take into account what could work much better elsewhere

[Desk Jockey]

i would have no problems with that if this "new european system" is proven better for everyone. it looks like you have a form of ideologic bloc which prevent you to take into account what could work much better elsewhere

I can't talk for shocker1 but what you fail to realize that with these comparisons to the European system is that you don't account for the efforts, programs, or even laws that individual US states have separate from the federal government.

Shocker mentioned Peach Care, wish I assume is a Georgia health-care program for the poor. In Massachusetts we have Mass Health, also Commonwealth Care, and a number of community based clinics that treat the poor here. Furthermore, it is now law (as of July 1st) that all citizens of Massachusetts have health insurance, this is a law that is independent and does not require a massive federal goverment take over.

On that note I will try to post an article from yesterday's paper. Our Govenor recently authorized a 3 million dollar marketing campaign to reach out to people who have ignored the law to get health insurance despite the programs I have mentioned above. So we are now spending millions to advertise, call, and go door to door to get people to enroll in a program that they should be running to.:roll:

PS Were not only US citizens supposed to vote in this poll? Me thinks it is skewed.

[Desk Jockey]

Two weeks ago, state officials announced a multifaceted campaign developed by Weber Shandwick (http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/gen/Weber_Shandwick_DDD18490E7B84692B969424ECDFA2728.html), the New York advertising and public relations firm and winner of a $4 million contract awarded by the Connector last fall.
The Boston Red Sox (http://www.bizjournals.com/search/results.html?Ntk=All&Ntx=mode matchallpartial&Ntt=%22Boston%20Red%20Sox%22) has been dubbed the lead "marketing partner" in the campaign, and the team will try to reach uninsured residents through efforts such as an enrollment booth at Fenway Park, public service announcements during games, events, and media interviews on the New England Sports Network (http://www.bizjournals.com/search/results.html?Ntk=All&Ntx=mode matchallpartial&Ntt=%22New%20England%20Sports%20Network%22), which the baseball club owns.

But the print and television campaign isn't solely Red Sox-focused, according to Tara Murphy, a Weber-Shandwick vice president who led development efforts on the Connector accounts. Advertisements that began running this week also featured "regular people" talking about the value of health insurance. They're also designed to run on Comcast Corp. (http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/gen/Comcast_Corp_79BCC71D8F10439F935C37A5844B86B1.html)'s cable stations and all the local television networks. The firm is also placing ads with black radio and print media, Spanish radio, television and print publications, and Portuguese radio.

In addition, the Connector has developed partnerships with a number of other corporations. CVS Caremark Corp. (http://www.bizjournals.com/search/results.html?Ntk=All&Ntx=mode matchallpartial&Ntt=%22CVS%20Caremark%20Corp%22) (NYSE: CVS) will promote insurance enrollment through signs in all Massachusetts pharmacies plus fliers and radio ads. Shaw's Supermarkets Inc. (http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/gen/Shaw's_Supermarkets_Inc_CCD918D7AA024BA7AE1B9655F7FE6B68.html), the MBTA and Comcast all plan to donate advertising space. The Connector launched a mass mailing of informational postcards to taxpayers and to 193,000 Massachusetts businesses.

Separately, the Massachusetts Health Care Reform Coalition (http://www.bizjournals.com/search/results.html?Ntk=All&Ntx=mode matchallpartial&Ntt=%22Massachusetts%20Health%20Care%20Reform%20Coalition%22) -- a group of 18 insurers, hospitals, health centers, business and industry groups -- will be launching a $3 million promotion campaign of its own.


Woops it is 4 million bucks and note, the ads will be in Spanish and Portuguese too. Why someone who can afford a day at Fenway these days is not covered is beyond me.:|

http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/stories/2007/06/04/story12.html

[shocker1]

i would have no problems with that if this "new european system" is proven better for everyone. it looks like you have a form of ideologic bloc which prevent you to take into account what could work much better elsewhere
No, but a plan ran by my state through elected reps in Atlanta is ok. It is not that I do not want a way to cover everyone. I do not want Washington to dole out my money to the states based on some Federal formula caculated by lobbyists, race, population, 2 year election cycles and economic status. Why can you not understand that? Why do you guys compare America with France or Finland in this matter? The complexities of the American Republic with individual states makes that comparison mute.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

No, but a plan ran by my state through elected reps in Atlanta is ok. It is not that I do not want a way to cover everyone. I do not want Washington to dole out my money to the states based on some Federal formula caculated by lobbyists, race, population, 2 year election cycles and economic status. Why can you not understand that? Why do you guys compare America with France or Finland in this matter? The complexities of the American Republic with individual states makes that comparison mute.

Australia has states with virtually the same power as the federal government. Despite this we manage. Despite the occasional Federal government having a sook from time to time things work ok.

[Olybrius]

No, but a plan ran by my state through elected reps in Atlanta is ok. It is not that I do not want a way to cover everyone. I do not want Washington to dole out my money to the states based on some Federal formula caculated by lobbyists, race, population, 2 year election cycles and economic status. Why can you not understand that? Why do you guys compare America with France or Finland in this matter? The complexities of the American Republic with individual states makes that comparison mute.

Despite the complexities of the american republic (lol) you were able to imagine a form of universal healthcare for your seniors ;)

[shocker1]

Despite the complexities of the american republic (lol) you were able to imagine a form of universal healthcare for your seniors ;)
Yeah that works well.:cantbeli: My grandparents have to buy Medicare supplement policies, prescription drug extensions that cost way over $100 a month. Try again bud, medicare is a prime example of way the Feds can NOT do this. This is an American issue anyway. You have no boat in this race other than being argumentative. LOL:slap:

[Ordie]

Despite the complexities of the american republic (lol) you were able to imagine a form of universal healthcare for your seniors ;)

It happened during the time when the AMA and the Pharmicuticals industry lobby were weak and unaware. I think it was one of LBJ's anti-poverty measures.

The US Military provides universal healthcare for its members, dependants and Guantanamo prisoners. The VA system does the same for Veterans.

Accessible universal heath care will eventually happen in the US. The pressure will come from businesses and employers who are not able to keep up with the rising costs.

For the insurance industry its reaching to the point of diminishing returns. (No customers--no money). Much of the costs is dedicated towards administrative and medical underwriting not on the care itself.

Any change to the healthcare policy will most likely come from the states. The Feds are paralyzed. (Too many corporate lobbyist drafting bills).

[shocker1]

Accessible universal heath care will eventually happen in the US. The pressure will come from businesses and employers who are not able to keep up with the rising costs.

For the insurance industry its reaching to the point of diminishing returns. (No customers--no money). Much of the costs is dedicated towards administrative and medical underwriting not on the care itself.

Any change to the healthcare policy will most likely come from the states. The Feds are paralyzed. (Too many corporate lobbyist drafting bills).
I agree with you, we will have a universal system at some point. However with present political ways and track record on huge Federal Programs it will be as you said the states fixing this problem. My insurance costs me a lot of money for sure. I would love to just go to the Doctor and sign in with no out of pocket.

What you will have though is Senators using obscure bills to get more money for their State out of the pot to "buy" votes. If our leaders would do this for Americans instead of our VOTE/PARTY this would have already been fixed years ago. Can't use this important issue in elections if it is fixed.