Fun facts about Israel

[KingoftheHill]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzNPZf-5aO4

:bash:

[Snoshi]

Hmm???????

[Switek]

Another typical anti Israeli propaganda I stopped watching after one minute...

[IDF_TANKER]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzNPZf-5aO4

:bash:

I'm just curious - are you going to post later the "Fun facts about Israel" video?

[JJC]

I'm just curious - are you going to post later the "Fun facts about Israel" video?

He won't but I will. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkCM1PneQNg

[Ameen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzNPZf-5aO4

:bash:

Great video. Thanks, there were some interesting things there.

[berdan]

I looked for her profil and she turned to be jewish girl form USA(former Israeli,judging by her choice of music).
Some crazy jewish folks you have..

[berdan]

Great video. Thanks, there were some interesting things there.

If one like to make a youtube clip about "not so cool stuff Arabs around the world did",it would take,oh say,I don't know.perhaps something around..hmm,like 10 hours or such.Maybe that is the reason people don't do them,no one can upload them on utube rofl
If you take things out of proportion,you can do many great and wonderfull things.Don't you think so,zalameh?

[afreu]

Something tells me I'd be better off spending 10 mins going to the fridge and making a sandwich then watching this video

x2

I'm not gonna watch it, not even read this thread would just like to ask people to stop posting such crap. :hug:

[berdan]

If you want something about evil Israel,let's have at list fun one..
Some Arab rapper singing about getto and shiat,and hot Arab chick there as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIo6lyP9tTE

[Ameen]

If one like to make a youtube clip about "not so cool stuff Arabs around the world did",it would take,oh say,I don't know.perhaps something around..hmm,like 10 hours or such.Maybe that is the reason people don't do them,no one can upload them on utube rofl
If you take things out of proportion,you can do many great and wonderfull things.Don't you think so,zalameh?

I don't care if someone made one about arabs. What does that have to do with me? All I said is that I found the facts interesting and enjoyed the video.

[IDF_TANKER]

I don't care if someone made one about arabs. What does that have to do with me? All I said is that I found the facts interesting and enjoyed the video.

The question is this(and you really owe the answer to yourself, no to me): are you going to pick any piece of information/blunt propaganda(like this video) and believe it just because it suits your predetermined agenda? Or, as any intelligent person trying to make an opinion about some subject, you are going to learn as much information as you can from all credible sources (may they be pro-Israeli or anti-Israeli)? I mean, do you really consider this video as a credible source of information?(I watched only the first 30 sec of this video and I found a few factual errors...)

[Danik]

*Fingers Crossed* I'm Dominican, I'm Dominican, I'm Dominican *Fingers Crossed*

*Runs to Mirror*


Damn, still not Dominican.

Yes is not No, this isn't Bulgaria.

[tomonator]

Propaganda crap.

[little icebear]

(I watched only the first 30 sec of this video and I found a few factual errors...)

True. But does her superficial and one-sided approach completly invalidate her message?
Often enough I do have the impression that zionism equals racism. Collective punishment and ethnic cleansing are part of reality in Israel.
The world isn´t painted in black and white - but you´re right: That´s what the woman who made this vid did. It is one-sided.

[IDF_TANKER]

True. But does her superficial and one-sided approach completly invalidate her message?
Often enough I do have the impression that zionism equals racism.
Zionism is an idea of creating a Jewish homeland as a secular democratic state. Zionism has nothing to do with racism or whatever you want to link to it. In fact, in modern times term Zionism is virtually irrelevant, since Israel already exists. The modern times are often referred in Israel as post-Zionist era and being Zionist simply means being patriotic. Israelis who initiated and supported the Oslo process consider themselves not less Zionsts than these who opposed it.

Collective punishment and ethnic cleansing are part of reality in Israel.
Collective punishment and ethnic cleansing that was something you could say about what allies did to Germans during and after WW2, but everything happens in a context, doesn't it...

[D-gin]

I should have gone to the kitchen and made a sandwich.

[ase290406]

The moment the first video said Israel was built atop a nation it destroyed, I stopped watching. There never was a Palestinian state anywhere in the world.

Warning- History lesson.
Israel was built from the British mandate, they took the land from the Turks in WWI, before that there were Arabs and for some time Crusaders, before that Byzantians, which were earlier called Romans, who destroyed the Kindgom of Judea roughly 2000 years ago. Before that kingdom there were Greeks, Persians, Babylonians, Assyrians, The first kindgom of Israel, people of Chnaan-Various tribes. Babylonians, Romans, Byzantium, Assyrians, and the People of Chnaan no longer exist.

[little icebear]

Zionism is an idea of creating a Jewish homeland as a secular democratic state. Zionism has nothing to do with racism or whatever you want to link to it. In fact, in modern times term Zionism is virtually irrelevant, since Israel already exists. The modern times are often referred in Israel as post-Zionist era and being Zionist simply means being patriotic. Israelis who initiated and supported the Oslo process consider themselves not less Zionsts than these who opposed it.


I think you know that I used the word as it is used in everyday language by those who critize Israel´s politics when it comes to topics like settlements in the west bank and housing in Jerusalem´s eastern part.
I know about the meaning of Zionism and after the horrors of the holocaust I have full understanding for the necessity of creating a state where jews are not a minority dependent on the tolerance of a non-jewish majority. My attitude is pro-israeli, but that doesn´t keep me from seeing bad things happening and Israelis being responsible.

Collective punishment and ethnic cleansing that was something you could say about what allies did to Germans during and after WW2, but everything happens in a context, doesn't it...Come on... is this example really a justification? :roll:

There never was a Palestinian state anywhere in the world.

Yeah. That was the first thing which struck me too.

[IDF_TANKER]

Come on... is this example really a justification? :roll:


I'm not going to justify or "unjustify" anything. Repeating endless discussions about the same things over and over again is not my idea of haw I want to spend my young years. As far as I concern, this discussion is over.

[rifledworld]

it had some intresting things in the 1st video, im not sure if there all true or not, but they were intresting... see the human shield pictures, that was wrong, i wonder how many of the claims were true.

cheers, RW

[NimDod]

it had some intresting things in the 1st video, im not sure if there all true or not, but they were intresting... see the human shield pictures, that was wrong, i wonder how many of the claims were true.

cheers, RW

I could agrue pretty much all of the "facts" in that clip, but it would be a complete waste of time. seems that people who already hold a certain agena will eat up every piece of propeganda given to them.
and like most other propeganda vids on youyube, Adding comments has been disabled for that video...

the funny thing about this clip is that the song played in the backround "Ein Li Eretz Aheret" ("I dont have another country") is a very Patriotic song, and was written by the Israeli poet Ehud Manor after his brother was killed in 1972, in the attrition war with Egypt.
later on, in the early 80's the song was used by people who objected to the war in Lebanon, and nowdays its used by the Right wingers who opposed the disengagement from Gaza and the further such "agreements" with the Palestinians.
a little bit Ironic, dont you think?

[rifledworld]

I could agrue pretty much all of the "facts" in that clip, but it would be a complete waste of time. seems that people who already hold a certain agena will eat up every piece of propeganda given to them.


yea thats true, for both sides of the fence.

you may argue with me (and thats fine) but i believe the palestinians deserve freedom.


a little bit Ironic, dont you think?


yea, like everything else these days on everyside possible, everything is twisted.

cheers, RW

[chulo_allen]

Great video. Thanks, there were some interesting things there.
lol the only intresting thing would be where he/she/it got their "facts" from .. their knowledge of world history seems to be very limited

[lider_r]

Zionism is an idea of creating a Jewish homeland as a secular democratic state. Zionism has nothing to do with racism or whatever you want to link to it.

Zionism is inseperable from Judaism, and Judaism in itself is inherintly racist;

Why did God promise the land of Israel only to the Jews? Why not all humans, regardless of race,religion or culture?

[chulo_allen]

Zionism is inseperable from Judaism, and Judaism in itself is inherintly racist;

Why did God promise the land of Israel only to the Jews? Why not all humans, regardless of race,religion or culture?
Racist:

The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
Discrimination or prejudice based on race.The argument for a superior genetic predisposition, people use the word racist without knowing what it means. The jews dont say they are geneticly superior, the nazis did.. the jews believe they are religiously distinct, and thats diffrent from racism

[little icebear]

Why did God promise the land of Israel only to the Jews? Why not all humans, regardless of race,religion or culture?

Why don´t you call him and ask?

Holy Sh!t, don´t bring religion into this matter... since when does religion has anything to do with tolerance and acting in a fair way?
A religious community, be it Muslim, Jewish or Christian is always exclusive and claims universal validity.

[little icebear]

the funny thing about this clip is that the song played in the backround "Ein Li Eretz Aheret" ("I dont have another country") is a very Patriotic song, and was written by the Israeli poet Ehud Manor after his brother was killed in 1972, in the attrition war with Egypt.
later on, in the early 80's the song was used by people who objected to the war in Lebanon, and nowdays its used by the Right wingers who opposed the disengagement from Gaza and the further such "agreements" with the Palestinians.
a little bit Ironic, dont you think?


Maybe the woman who made this video considers herself to be a patriot too.
I think it is patriotic to fight injustice in your own country.
Although some "facts" portrayed in the vid are... well, quite disputable.
But complete BS? Yeah, if you are one of those guys who believe that the European media are part of an evil leftist/liberal anti-israel conspiracy, than you may be right... :roll:

[Zuze]

http://www.secession.net/palestinianlandloss.jpg

What more to add?

[little icebear]

Well, maybe the fact that there was no country named "Palestine"? A fact, ignored by the woman who made this vid.

But indeed, there was an Arab/Palestinian population. This is a fact.

[Snoshi]

http://www.secession.net/palestinianlandloss.jpg

What more to add?

That most of the land loss came as Palestinians lost the war which they started.

[little icebear]

That most of the land loss came as Palestinians lost the war which they started.


Well, if you lived there and than, within a really short period of time, all those Jews arrive, constantly talking about the creation of Erez Israel, a state meant to be for Jews and run by Jews... what would you do?

I understand both sides... it´s the international community and the British who ****ed that thing up.

[Snoshi]

Well, if you lived there and than, within a really short period of time, all those Jews arrive, constantly talking about the creation of Erez Israel, a state meant to be for Jews and run by Jews... what would you do?

I understand both sides... it´s the international community and the British who ****ed that thing up.

Two countries were created,Arabs dint like it so they started a war which they lost..

[chulo_allen]

Well, if you lived there and than, within a really short period of time, all those Jews arrive, constantly talking about the creation of Erez Israel, a state meant to be for Jews and run by Jews... what would you do?

I understand both sides... it´s the international community and the British who ****ed that thing up.
and if u go back into history you see that the Jews DID live there and had roots there, well before our modern times

[IDF_TANKER]

Zionism is inseperable from Judaism, and Judaism in itself is inherintly racist;

Why did God promise the land of Israel only to the Jews? Why not all humans, regardless of race,religion or culture?
1. Zionism having its origins in Judaism is inherently secular movement.
2. Following your logic, Christianity is racist too(remember, we share the same Old Testament?).
3. The definition of Judaism is indefinitely complicated. Connecting Judaism to terms like "race" is simplistic and stupid (like everything you wrote so far).

[little icebear]

and if u go back into history you see that the Jews DID live there and had roots there, well before our modern times

Brilliant... :roll:

[little icebear]

Arabs dint like it so they started a war which they lost..

I think if you had been in their place, you wouldn´t have liked it either...

[chulo_allen]

Brilliant... :roll:
sure, why not just apply history and the facts that you think work for your argument and ignore the facts that dont work for you. as for your reply, i guess u dont have anything to counter facts.

[Mr.Flint]

http://www.secession.net/palestinianlandloss.jpg

What more to add?
That map is titled incorrectly, and simply factually incorrect.
1. During the mandate, jews were palestinians too, therefore the title is incorrect for the first map.
2. The first map is incorrect becouse it attributes crown land (ie land owned by the rulers of the area, Ottomans and then Brits) to "other" side ownership. aproximately 70% of the allocated, in the partition, land to Jews was owned by the Crown. More than 60% of than land was unculitvatble

[little icebear]

sure, why not just apply history and the facts that you think work for your argument and ignore the facts that dont work for you. as for your reply, i guess u dont have anything to counter facts.

First of all:

I´m pro-israel, meaning that I think it was necessary to build a nation for the Jews. And I can´t think of another soil suitable for the state of Israel than Palestine.

But - your argument which says "well, there was king david´s empire long, long ago" is just funny.
What if everybody started to present old, dusty maps and explains that he would like to go back to those borders his country had centuries ago?
Sounds like a joke to me.

[chulo_allen]

First of all:

I´m pro-israel, meaning that I think it was necessary to build a nation for the Jews. And I can´t think of another soil suitable for the state of Israel than Palestine.

But - your argument which says "well, there was king david´s empire long, long ago" is just funny.
What if everybody started to present old, dusty maps and explains that he would like to go back to those borders his country had centuries ago?
Sounds like a joke to me.
and how do u think those countries were created many many years ago?
saddam used that excuse for the first gulf war, and im sure that wasnt a joke. The fact is ownership of any piece of land is debatable, if one people claim ownership, it can be proven that they took it from someone else.

[IDF_TANKER]

First of all:

I´m pro-israel, meaning that I think it was necessary to build a nation for the Jews. And I can´t think of another soil suitable for the state of Israel than Palestine.

But - your argument which says "well, there was king david´s empire long, long ago" is just funny.
What if everybody started to present old, dusty maps and explains that he would like to go back to those borders his country had centuries ago?
Sounds like a joke to me.
x2
My world vision is much like yours. Israel is an existing fact. And it exists
due to the sweat and blood (yes, not only ours) our ancestors spilled on this land, building this flourishing western democratic country virtually from nothing.

That being said, the religious Jewish connection always was/is/will be there. It's inherent part of our country and its people and necessary condition of our existance.

[little icebear]

and how do u think those countries were created many many years ago?
saddam used that excuse for the first gulf war, and im sure that wasnt a joke. The fact is ownership of any piece of land is debatable, if one people claim ownership, it can be proven that they took it from someone else.

I think when you live on the same soil where your grandparents and their grandparents before used to live, you can pretty confidently say that it is your´s.

If you need to go through history books in order to prove that some country has any connection to your people... well, than.. :roll:

[chulo_allen]

I think when you live on the same soil where your grandparents and their grandparents before used to live, you can pretty confidently say that it is your´s.

If you need to go through history books in order to prove that some country has any connection to your people... well, than.. :roll:
well i guess then quite a few people in israel can say that their grand parents and greatgrand parents have lived there, so its theres now..

[Crassus]

That most of the land loss came as Palestinians lost the war which they started.

You are joking? right...:-(

[little icebear]

There have always been Jews in the holy land and they have just the same right to consider it to be their ancestral homeland as the Arabs.
I although do not dispute the newcomer´s right to claim Israel to be their home. As it is said in the song: They do not have another land.

[IDF_TANKER]

You are joking? right...:-(

Are you..?

[NimDod]

http://www.secession.net/palestinianlandloss.jpg

What more to add?
okay:
let me just start by saying that tere never was a Palestinian state, so Lets just change it from "Palestinian land" to "Arab land".

now, first picture on the left:
a majority of the territory painted green was not not occupied by the Arabs. most of the south part was pretty much empty. besides the Gaza strip, its pretty much a desert. the only ones who might have lived there were the Beduins, and they never owned any land.
what they did in this picture was paint the build up areas where jews lived in white, and all the rest in green, as if anyone lived there.

the second picture from the left:
the UN partition plan. the Jews agreed to it, and the Arabs didnt. if they did, this would probebly be the way Israel and Palestine's maps look like. too bad for them they didnt take the UN deal instaed of attack, huh?
the people who live today in the area that used to be green, on the top of the map, are Jews and Arabs, loyal to the coutry and serv in its army.

the third from the left:
on the Left side: Egyptian territory (Palestinians occupied by the Egyptian's military rule).
on the right side: the west bank: Jordanian territory (Palestinians occupied by the Jordanian Legion's rule).
strange, but they forgot to mention the Golan heights in this map. oh well

the picture on the right:
a bit old. could you get one from 2007?
anyway, the whole Gaza Strip is in Palestinian hands. well, kind of. Hamas' hands.
the West bank should be mostly green now, with some small white spots on it, mostly on the western side next to the "boarder".

as for the video's "fact" - we can disprove anyone of them.
they could make a video with some fact that would make Israel look bad, but they just took this too far. those numbers they showed are absurd...

[Elemental666]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzNPZf-5aO4

:bash:

Spending too much time on ***********.net I see. They absolutely love this kind of crap.

[IDF_TANKER]

okay:
let me just start by saying that tere never was a Palestinian state, so Lets just change it from "Palestinian land" to "Arab land".

now, first picture on the left:
a majority of the territory painted green was not not occupied by the Arabs. most of the south part was pretty much empty. besides the Gaza strip, its pretty much a desert. the only ones who might have lived there were the Beduins, and they never owned any land.
what they did in this picture was paint the build up areas where jews lived in white, and all the rest in green, as if anyone lived there.

the second picture from the left:
the UN partition plan. the Jews agreed to it, and the Arabs didnt. if they did, this would probebly be the way Israel and Palestine's maps look like. too bad for them they didnt take the UN deal instaed of attack, huh?
the people who live today in the area that used to be green, on the top of the map, are Jews and Arabs, loyal to the coutry and serv in its army.

the third from the left:
on the Left side: Egyptian territory (Palestinians occupied by the Egyptian's military rule).
on the right side: the west bank: Jordanian territory (Palestinians occupied by the Jordanian Legion's rule).
strange, but they forgot to mention the Golan heights in this map. oh well

the picture on the right:
a bit old. could you get one from 2007?
anyway, the whole Gaza Strip is in Palestinian hands. well, kind of. Hamas' hands.
the West bank should be mostly green now, with some small white spots on it, mostly on the western side next to the "boarder".

as for the video's "fact" - we can disprove anyone of them.
they could make a video with some fact that would make Israel look bad, but they just took this too far. those numbers they showed are absurd...

I'm afraid, NimDod, your effort is for nothing. People like Zuze are not interested in facts, they will pick up any piece of the most baseless propaganda and bring it to you like a God given one and the only indisputable Truth.

[Zeev]

why so much explanations? Christians and muslims have a lot of countries where they are in majority and where they can express their faith freely..

Jews have just one country in the world, of course christians and muslims can live there but this must stay a Jewish state for Jewish people first, simply because there is not an other country like this in the world for the jews...this is also the reason why we will always fight for this land.

if you can't understand these facts, then you're a fool or a very insincere people.. anyway you must know that those you're calling " evil zionists " just dont give a fvck about your opinion :)

[Kilo]

How has the geography of religion evolved over the centuries, and where has it sparked wars? Our map gives us a brief history of the world's most well-known religions: Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Judaism. Selected periods of inter-religious bloodshed are also highlighted. Want to see 5,000 years of religion in 90 seconds? Ready, Set, Gohttp://www.youtube.com/v/SdmBOTB3SLs



Who has controlled the Middle East over the course of history? Pretty much everyone. Egyptians, Turks, Jews, Romans, Arabs, Persians, Europeans...the list goes on. Who will control the Middle East today? That is a much bigger question. http://www.youtube.com/v/Lv22Iz9qJCE



original source: http://www.mapsofwar.com

[Finlander]

OMFG! shocking clip! :-(
Is all this true?

[IDF_TANKER]

OMFG! shocking clip! :-(
Is all this true?
Absolutely 100% yes! That's why we have 4 pages of discussion.












:cantbeli::cantbeli::cantbeli:

[greatza1]

This is that kind of thread with no end until DeltaWisky will stop it.Both sides make mistakes/atrocities and they are the good and the bad guys in the same time. Depend the side you you are watching.Personally i don`t give a s**t on this problem.Why?I`m too far from it so why shoud i care?It`s just an conflict between two sides who became playng card in the mondial politik.In the sixtees was the interest of soviets to help arabs against israelis an american ally.And from 1982 Lebanon trip(of IDF) and OEP evacuation became a major problem for the all world.Somehaw i will call it Balkan`s of the Middle East.What if the Brithish Protectorat of Palestine was somewhere in Africa? On the aktual land of Rwanda .And that the palestinian are hutu and israeli are tutsi. Or viceversa p=t and i=h.Woud someone care about the death of one milion from them? Perhaps one motion at the UN , some peacekepers after , an so called tribunal in Uganda and some ,,our deeply condoleances".That`s because Rwanda has nothing and is in Afrika and Israel is at the Europe`s gates and is an civilized country(eighth sapce power) not some black monkeys who lives in trees from who god knows country somewhere in Africa. Killings , atrocities are hapening every day everywhere but who cares if is not in the mondial game.For example till 9/11 the americans not even know about the existence of the taliban regime.It`s all about the price . If it worth anythyng let`s fight for it . If not good`s will.

[rifledworld]

This is that kind of thread with no end until DeltaWisky will stop it.Both sides make mistakes/atrocities and they are the good and the bad guys in the same time. Depend the side you you are watching.Personally i don`t give a s**t on this problem.Why?I`m too far from it so why shoud i care?It`s just an conflict between two sides who became playng card in the mondial politik.In the sixtees was the interest of soviets to help arabs against israelis an american ally.And from 1982 Lebanon trip(of IDF) and OEP evacuation became a major problem for the all world.Somehaw i will call it Balkan`s of the Middle East.What if the Brithish Protectorat of Palestine was somewhere in Africa? On the aktual land of Rwanda .And that the palestinian are hutu and israeli are tutsi. Or viceversa p=t and i=h.Woud someone care about the death of one milion from them? Perhaps one motion at the UN , some peacekepers after , an so called tribunal in Uganda and some ,,our deeply condoleances".That`s because Rwanda has nothing and is in Afrika and Israel is at the Europe`s gates and is an civilized country(eighth sapce power) not some black monkeys who lives in trees from who god knows country somewhere in Africa. Killings , atrocities are hapening every day everywhere but who cares if is not in the mondial game.For example till 9/11 the americans not even know about the existence of the taliban regime.It`s all about the price . If it worth anythyng let`s fight for it . If not good`s will.
well said man.

cheers, RW

[lider_r]

Racist:

The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
Discrimination or prejudice based on race.The argument for a superior genetic predisposition, people use the word racist without knowing what it means. The jews dont say they are geneticly superior, the nazis did.. the jews believe they are religiously distinct, and thats diffrent from racism

Many people refer to themselves as jewish through ethnicity not just religion, ie secular jews. Correct me if im wrong but doesnt one just need to be jewish by heritage to become a citizen of Israel?

The jewish people and followers of judaism worship a book which is supposedly written by the creator of the universe clearly stateing that the land of Israel is reserved for the jewish people.

At the very least, its descrimination on the grounds of religion and culture.

[lider_r]

1. Zionism having its origins in Judaism is inherently secular movement.

Where did the zionists get the idea that Israel is a land reserved for people of jewish faith and background?

It was the Bible.

2. Following your logic, Christianity is racist too(remember, we share the same Old Testament?).

Correct. Christianity is just as devisive as Judaism and Islam in its rejection and exclusion of people with other beliefs.


3. The definition of Judaism is indefinitely complicated. Connecting Judaism to terms like "race" is simplistic and stupid (like everything you wrote so far).

Why is it stupid? Many people refer to themselves as secular jews, and if im not mistaken can be granted citizenship in Israel because of their jewish heritage regardless if they are followers of Judaism or not.

[LRPV]

Well I watched it, but it was disappointing to find how easily many of the "facts" are to disprove. As an anti-Israeli piece it was quite juvenile.

[Chounch McGavin]

x2
My world vision is much like yours. Israel is an existing fact. And it exists
due to the sweat and blood (yes, not only ours) our ancestors spilled on this land, building this flourishing western democratic country virtually from nothing.

You never cease to amuse me. There is no such thing as "from nothing." At least pay your respects to the countries that funded Israel's spawning. And don't forget about the Stern murderers as well.

Facts in this video? Israel is essentially the size of New Jersey.






What's the difference between a Pro- and an Anti-? Nothing. Someone please close this thread.

[LRPV]

You never cease to amuse me. There is no such thing as "from nothing." At least pay your respects to the countries that funded Israel's spawning. And don't forget about the Stern murderers as well.

Facts in this video? Israel is essentially the size of New Jersey.






What's the difference between a Pro- and an Anti-? Nothing. Someone please close this thread.

The OP has been banned. Most of those with a view for or against have had a chance to type their opinion. The thread will die off unless someone writes something idiotically inflammatory.

Lets not get that dependant that we need a mod to close a thread every time a middle-east thread occurs. If it were to be necessary then MP.net loses much of its forum value. But then, thats just my opinion and I'm happy enough to read that which I find politically disagreeable.

[Finlander]

Jews claim Israel belongs to them because God gave it to them.
Jews also claim they are the anchestors of the land because jews as we all know are gods chosen people and Israel is where God would live if he decided to move to earth, so it makes perfect sense that God would want to live among jews which is his own holy kids.

Palestinians must therefor be the devils people and must be bulldozed off the holy land. Even if they have lived there for so long. As we all know, the holy jews had holy missions in Egypt and Europe for thousands of years before they decided to move back.

So when you ask a jew where he came from the answer will be Israel. If you say something bad about Israel and its policies you will be labeled an anti-semite, semite being the word for people of semitic language or ethnicity.
Ask a jew what his race is, he will say jews are not a race but just a religion. They are very fast with saying they are europeans because that is where they came from (Holy land is set on pause)... ashkenazim means jews from Germany. So they say they are germans when it comes to looks and other racial attributes.

Scientists though have found that ashkenazim jews which is the biggest jewish group originates from Khazaria in Crimea. They were merchants and converted to judaism in 700 AD when Islam and Christianity was at war with each other in that area. When converted to judaism they stayed neutral in the war and could trade with both parts.

So being a khazarian merchant convert in 700 AD, makes you neither a semite or an european, so Israel or Europe cannot be your ancient home because you dont have any bonds to either of them. This goes to the ashkenazim jews not the other jews in this world.

am I a liar? or is this the truth that might hurt many jews?

[markjh]

I see you are back from your "Infraction vacation" Finnlander and you keep up your Jew bashing. What a nice fellow you are :cantbeli:
Do yourself a favor and get yourself a decent history book! I'm not going to argue with you anymore, because it seems to be absolutely pointless,
since you seem to be fairly resistable to true historical facts...

[Finlander]

I see you are back from your "Infraction vacation" Finnlander and you keep up your Jew bashing. What a nice fellow you are :cantbeli:
Do yourself a favor and get yourself a decent history book! I'm not going to argue with you anymore, because it seems to be absolutely pointless,
since you seem to be fairly resistable to true historical facts...

I am not jew bashing at all... I am debating. I could be wrong though, can you please tell me what I was wrong about?

[Snoshi]

Jews claim Israel belongs to them because God gave it to them.
Jews also claim they are the anchestors of the land because jews as we all know are gods chosen people and Israel is where God would live if he decided to move to earth, so it makes perfect sense that God would want to live among jews which is his own holy kids.

Palestinians must therefor be the devils people and must be bulldozed off the holy land. Even if they have lived there for so long. As we all know, the holy jews had holy missions in Egypt and Europe for thousands of years before they decided to move back.

So when you ask a jew where he came from the answer will be Israel. If you say something bad about Israel and its policies you will be labeled an anti-semite, semite being the word for people of semitic language or ethnicity.
Ask a jew what his race is, he will say jews are not a race but just a religion. They are very fast with saying they are europeans because that is where they came from (Holy land is set on pause)... ashkenazim means jews from Germany. So they say they are germans when it comes to looks and other racial attributes.

Scientists though have found that ashkenazim jews which is the biggest jewish group originates from Khazaria in Crimea. They were merchants and converted to judaism in 700 AD when Islam and Christianity was at war with each other in that area. When converted to judaism they stayed neutral in the war and could trade with both parts.

So being a khazarian merchant convert in 700 AD, makes you neither a semite or an european, so Israel or Europe cannot be your ancient home because you dont have any bonds to either of them. This goes to the ashkenazim jews not the other jews in this world.

am I a liar? or is this the truth that might hurt many jews?

evertheless, in the Arab world the Khazar theory has been adopted by anti-Zionists and anti-Semites such proponents argue that if Ashkenazi Jews are primarily Khazar and not Semitic in origin, they would have no historical claim to Israel, nor would they be the subject of the God's Biblical promise of Canaan to the Israelites, thus undermining the theological basis of both Jewish religious Zionists and Christian Zionists. In the 1970s and 80s the Khazar theory was also advanced used by some Russian chauvinist antisemites, particularly the historian Lev Gumilyov, who portrayed "Judeo-Khazars" as having repeatedly sabotaged Russia's development since the 7th century
No modern mainstream scholars support this hypothesis. As Bernard Lewis writes:

This theory… is supported by no evidence whatsoever. It has long since been abandoned by all serious scholars in the field, including those in Arab countries, where the Khazar theory is little used except in occasional political polemics
..............

[Finlander]

I see thanks for your reply, interesting read. But what about this site?

http://www.khazaria.com/

[chulo_allen]

Many people refer to themselves as jewish through ethnicity not just religion, ie secular jews. Correct me if im wrong but doesnt one just need to be jewish by heritage to become a citizen of Israel?

The jewish people and followers of judaism worship a book which is supposedly written by the creator of the universe clearly stateing that the land of Israel is reserved for the jewish people.

At the very least, its descrimination on the grounds of religion and culture.

2. Following your logic, Christianity is racist too(remember, we share the same Old Testament?). Correct. Christianity is just as devisive as Judaism and Islam in its rejection and exclusion of people with other beliefs.


Quote:
3. The definition of Judaism is indefinitely complicated. Connecting Judaism to terms like "race" is simplistic and stupid (like everything you wrote so far).
Why is it stupid? Many people refer to themselves as secular jews, and if im not mistaken can be granted citizenship in Israel because of their jewish heritage regardless if they are followers of Judaism or not.
[/quote]
you contradict yourself too much.

Define the proper term of racist and then try applying to what you just said. Being a secular Jew or a citizen of Israel is not just based on their heritage. So you are saying an African Jew is the same race as an asian Jew and an European Jew? Just because of the religion they belive in?

[NimDod]

I see thanks for your reply, interesting read. But what about this site?

http://www.khazaria.com/

just out of curiosity, how many hours of your life did you waste on this crap?
I mean, watching an Anti-Israel / Anti-Jewish / Anti-Zionist short clip every once in a while is one thing, but it seems you actually reaserched into this crap. what made you so obsessed with Jewish history? khazaria? history of the Ashkenazim Jews? in thr 8th century?
you probebly read more about the Jews then on your own people.
If you were a Palestinians or a Lebenese guy with hard feeling twards Israel, I could understand that, but come on... how boring is it in Finland?
and many Jews live there anyway? have you ever even met one?

[LRPV]

Finlander, I don't mind a friendly, if robust debate. How about including sources for your information? As you are no doubt aware, not all sources are as qualitively reliable as others. Have a look at the material on Malvianas/Falklands for an example. The Brits and Argies put out quite different views and sourcing helps determine the reliability and factual content of the material.

[rifledworld]

why do pro-israelis get so cut when someone tries to have a disscussion with them?

and why are the pro-israelis always right, and always have the right sources, but no one else does???

[HOLLiS]

why do pro-israelis get so cut when someone tries to have a disscussion with them?

and why are the pro-israelis always right, and always have the right sources, but no one else does???



I have not answered this thread, But can I ask? Why do you think you are soooooo F'in right?

[LRPV]

why do pro-israelis get so cut when someone tries to have a disscussion with them?

and why are the pro-israelis always right, and always have the right sources, but no one else does???

Firstly, as a pro-Israeli, I don't get cut as you put it when someone discusses the region. If you read my post to Finlander you would know this and you would know your post was inaccurate.

As to your second claim, I'm buggered if I know. I was not aware Israelis were always right :).

[ozumn]

what was wrong with the Vid?

[Danik]

Ohh no.:cantbeli:

Please mods ,have mercy on us all, stop this thread.

[Switek]

It still exists


:cantbeli:

[NimDod]

why do pro-israelis get so cut when someone tries to have a disscussion with them?


come comes the same cliams are brought up evey time someone finds some idiotic propeganda vid on youtube?
I dont mind the disscussion. It just gets boring with the same issues are repeated over and over again.
how comes every bad thing that happened to someone's country, its somehow related to Judaism.
how comes there are so many Israeli/Judism relaed threads, and what makes so Europians who never met a jew in ther life disscuss Jewish history with them?
even this vid for example deals with Israel's occupation over some of the palestinians, but still, you find that most of the posts in it deal with the Jewish religion.
how did you people become so obsessed with it?

[berdan]

come comes the same cliams are brought up evey time someone finds some idiotic propeganda vid on youtube?
I dont mind the disscussion. It just gets boring with the same issues are repeated over and over again.
how comes every bad thing that happened to someone's country, its somehow related to Judaism.
how comes there are so many Israeli/Judism relaed threads, and what makes so Europians who never met a jew in ther life disscuss Jewish history with them?
even this vid for example deals with Israel's occupation over some of the palestinians, but still, you find that most of the posts in it deal with the Jewish religion.
how did you people become so obsessed with it?


Simple psychology.
People expect from,let's say athlethes behave in a certain matter.They project this from themself.For example,I would expect from athletes be sober all the time,because I am a drunkard person.
Or from a doctor,I would expect he wouldn't even try to smoke a single sigi,while there are chain smoking doctors.
For every status comes expectations.Human mind is not much different then computer,it tends to see dualic patterns.Like good or bad.

People come to expect from Israel(while many of them have no idea where it is,why,when or how) things they wouldn't expect from other countries.Why?

Maybe because some consider them as "holy nation",and hold them at high standarts.Some project guilt for their forefathers doings to jews,and translate it to Israeli dislike.Some read to much socialistic crap of evildoings of Israel,and try to pretend they care for poor and opressed.

Yep.So,tell me about your mother now...

[little icebear]

how did you people become so obsessed with it?

Face it: Jews are the chosen people. p-)

[ce267]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzNPZf-5aO4

:bash:

terrible scenes....l hope none of that claims are true...

[Zeev]

terrible scenes....l hope none of that claims are true...

dont worry... lies and propaganda are sports among arab nations..

[NimDod]

If someone would bother to make a list from all of the "facts" that were written on this video, we could end this sidcussion faster then you can say my poopic is meshugana.

[Kaplanr]

Face it: Jews are the chosen people. p-)

Thus saith Moses to the Lord in Heaven upon his receiving the Law at Sinai. "Just so i understand, they get all the oil, and we get to cut the tips of our dicks off?"

[Finlander]

Of course lots of the stuff in the video is true, if not all, I can't say! But most of it is for sure.
It is also palestinian propaganda for sure.

[berdan]

Of course lots of the stuff in the video is true, if not all, I can't say! But most of it is for sure.
It is also palestinian propaganda for sure.

Offcofse most of it is true.
The fact that,let's say,Russian slaughtered Germans in WW2,or America dropped just like that two freeking atom bombs on a peacefull cities!!!
Ain't it funny that context suddenly changes everything?

[little icebear]

Thus saith Moses to the Lord in Heaven upon his receiving the Law at Sinai. "Just so i understand, they get all the oil, and we get to cut the tips of our dicks off?"

roflwootrofl

The fact that,let's say,Russian slaughtered Germans in WW2,or America dropped just like that two freeking atom bombs on a peacefull cities!!!
Ain't it funny that context suddenly changes everything?

Your comparison is just as ridiculously one-sided and factual false as the pro-pali propaganda.
Both sides, in reality as on mp.net, mostly think in black and white. And that´s why we won´t see peace in the holy land anywhere soon. (And why discussion on this matter in this forum are usually closed for pointlessness and being full of insults.)

[berdan]

roflwootrofl



Your comparison is just as ridiculously one-sided and factual false as the pro-pali propaganda.

That's exactly what I tried to show,rtard...

[Fade]

Another little-known fun fact about Israel ;-)

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9449/dsodtu4.jpg

[D-gin]

Noone liked my sandwich idea then, atleast I tried
My sandwich was tasty, How was yours.

[little icebear]

That's exactly what I tried to show,

I´m afraid you are the one who didn´t get it... but nevermind.

rtard...

:hug:

[Finlander]

The bagel was invented in Central Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Europe), probably in Poland. A 1610 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1610) document from Kraków mentions beygls given as a gift to women in childbirth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childbirth). This is cited as the earliest known reference to the bagel, but the document is not absolutely clear about what a beygl is. Also uncertain is the relationship, if any, to the sweet Hungarian pastry, beigli (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Beigli&action=edit).

[chulo_allen]

The bagel was invented in Central Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Europe), probably in Poland. A 1610 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1610) document from Kraków mentions beygls given as a gift to women in childbirth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childbirth). This is cited as the earliest known reference to the bagel, but the document is not absolutely clear about what a beygl is. Also uncertain is the relationship, if any, to the sweet Hungarian pastry, beigli (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Beigli&action=edit).
lies! poland!? i always thought it was french

[Switek]

Bajgle in Polish language is a kind of sweet roll poured with poppy coming from Cracow (where used to live a jewish minority for about 800 years)

[Danik]

Bagel is Jewish invention. Poland: The Land Where Pilmeni are Pierogis, and ZH and SH Run Rampant in Every Word, You Fail as a Country, hence you could not have invented something so complex as a bagel.

[little icebear]

Bagel is Jewish invention. Poland: The Land Where Pilmeni are Pierogis, and ZH and SH Run Rampant in Every Word, You Fail as a Country, hence you could not have invented something so complex as a bagel.

Without American help in terms of funding and technology-transfer, the Jews could never have invented something like a bagel.
That´s why I´d be utterly enraged if they dared to sell any bagels or bagel-related technology to the Chinese. p-)

[phoebus]

http://www.secession.net/palestinianlandloss.jpg

What more to add?

Interesting map indeed; what is the source?

Cheers.

[Danik]

Interesting map indeed; what is the source?

Cheers.

assfacts.com perhaps.

You know the map is bad when they refer to Palestinian and Jewish Land. Mixing and matching names doesn't work when you're looking for historical accuracy. Its either all Palestine and its Jewish and Arab land(or non Jewish land). OR even better Jewish OWNED land and Arab inhabited/owned land. Just cause you pay rent don't mean your ass cant get thrown out on the street especially when your landlord loses the place in a game of cards.

[lider_r]

you contradict yourself too much
Define the proper term of racist and then try applying to what you just said. Being a secular Jew or a citizen of Israel is not just based on their heritage. So you are saying an African Jew is the same race as an asian Jew and an European Jew? Just because of the religion they belive in?

im saying that if somebody is jewish, regardless of their country of origin then it is racist to imply that they have more of a right to something (or someplace) then somebody who isnt jewish.

If somebody isnt religious but has jewish heritage and can be granted israeli citizenship on that basis alone (as opposed to somebody who can't) then how is that not racist and/or discriminatory?

[GrimReaper]

Israel policy is not racist due to the fact anyone who truly wants it, can the join the Jewish people/nation by converting (while no man can change his race). Every country's immigration laws are discriminatory against one type or another of population - whether it's based on money, level of education, employment possibility,refugees, historical heritage and connection, cultural donation etc'. Israel is a national home for a people displaced close to 1900 years. When the vast majority of them come back, the immigration laws be relaxed to allow other materialistic and selfish immigration reasons.

[chulo_allen]

im saying that if somebody is jewish, regardless of their country of origin then it is racist to imply that they have more of a right to something (or someplace) then somebody who isnt jewish.

If somebody isnt religious but has jewish heritage and can be granted israeli citizenship on that basis alone (as opposed to somebody who can't) then how is that not racist and/or discriminatory?
You have no idea/dont know what the term RACIST is. I think what you are looking for is someother word, but racist is not it. Religous affilation is not a racial predisposition for the genetic superioity, rather their affilation is a distinction from other religons.

[LRPV]

Thus saith Moses to the Lord in Heaven upon his receiving the Law at Sinai. "Just so i understand, they get all the oil, and we get to cut the tips of our dicks off?"

Kaplanr.....you owe me a cup of tea! I read this and couldn't drink and laugh at the same time.:)

[NuclearHead]

Something tells me I'd be better off spending 10 mins going to the fridge and making a sandwich then watching this video

You actually watched 10 minutes of this propaganda? I closed it after 30 seconds.

http://www.secession.net/palestinianlandloss.jpg

What more to add?

http://www.ortzion.org/Israel_tiny.jpg

[lider_r]

Israel policy is not racist due to the fact anyone who truly wants it, can the join the Jewish people/nation by converting (while no man can change his race). Every country's immigration laws are discriminatory against one type or another of population - whether it's based on money, level of education, employment possibility,refugees, historical heritage and connection, cultural donation etc'. Israel is a national home for a people displaced close to 1900 years. When the vast majority of them come back, the immigration laws be relaxed to allow other materialistic and selfish immigration reasons.

For as long as Israel is considered a 'homeland for jews' it will be a racially exclusive country.

The growing arab population within Israel is evidence enough that government fears anything less than a non-arab jewish majority.

You have no idea/dont know what the term RACIST is. I think what you are looking for is someother word, but racist is not it. Religous affilation is not a racial predisposition for the genetic superioity, rather their affilation is a distinction from other religons.

If having a 'jewish' bloodline entitles you to something you would not otherwise be entitled to, regardless of your religious status, then that is racism.

If being jewish entitles you to something you would not otherwise be entitled to then that is religious bigotry and discrimination at the very least.

[chulo_allen]

If having a 'jewish' bloodline entitles you to something you would not otherwise be entitled to, regardless of your religious status, then that is racism.

If being jewish entitles you to something you would not otherwise be entitled to then that is religious bigotry and discrimination at the very least.


i agree its bigotry or discimination, but its not racist, and thats why im saying you are using the wrong word in the wrong context.

Its not just the bloodline that entitles you to become jewish but a conversion, so being a jew is not limited to one race or one bloodline. So on a whole there is a religious discrimination, not a racial one.

[Group9]

Did this video come from the "You don't hate Jews like we do, so we are going to blow you up", crowd?

Because, I don't like those guys.

[Hukatus]

You actually watched 10 minutes of this propaganda? I closed it after 30 seconds.
http://www.ortzion.org/Israel_tiny.jpg
also this picture presenting bull****. this is a map on islamic religion in middle east not the map of arab population.
turks and iranians for example are not arabs.

[chulo_allen]

i think they mean arab=muslim