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TheStorm
07-23-2007, 02:49 PM
Those irascible Iranians

Mark Steyn
July 23, 2007

How do you feel about the American hostages in Iran?

No, not the guys back in the Seventies, the ones being held right now.

What? You haven't heard about them?

Odd that, isn't it? But they're there. For example, for two months now, Haleh Esfandiari has been detained in Evin prison in Tehran. Esfandiari is a U.S. citizen and had traveled to Iran to visit her sick mother. She is the director of the Middle East program at the Woodrow Wilson Center for International Scholars, which is the kind of gig that would impress your fellow guests at a Washington dinner party. Unfortunately, the mullahs say it's an obvious cover for a Bush spy.

Among the other Zionist-neocon agents currently held in Iranian jails are an American journalist, an American sociologist for a George Soros-funded leftie group, and an American peace activist from Irvine, Ali Shakeri, whose capture became known shortly after the United States and Iran held their first direct talks since the original hostage crisis.

Two months in an Iranian jail is no fun. Four years ago, a Montreal photo-journalist, Zahra Kazemi, was arrested by police in Tehran, taken to Evin prison, and wound up getting questioned to death. Upon her capture, the Canadian government had done as the State Department is apparently doing – kept things discreet, low-key, cards close to the chest, quiet word in the right ears. By the time Zahra Kazemi's son, frustrated by his government's ineffable equanimity, got the story out, it was too late for his mother.

Still, upon hearing of her death, then-Canadian Foreign Minister Bill Graham expressed his "sadness" and "regret," which are pretty strong words. But then, as ******* put it, this sad regrettable incident had "marred previously harmonious relations between Iran and Canada." In his public ****ouncements, Graham tended to give the impression that what he chiefly regretted and was sad about was that one of his compatriots had had the poor taste to get tortured and murdered onto the front pages of the newspapers.

With an apparently straight face, Graham passed on to reporters the official Iranian line that her death in jail was merely an "accident." The following year, Shahram Azam, a physician who'd examined Kazemi's body, fled Iran and said that she had broken fingers, a broken nose, a crushed toe, a skull fracture, severe abdominal bruising, and internal damage consistent with various forms of rape. Quite an accident.

The longer American prisoners are held in Evin, the more likely it is they'll meet with a similar accident. It would be nice to think the press has ignored these hostages out of concerns that they might inflame the situation. (To date, only National Review, Bill Bennett on his radio show and various doughty Internet wallahs have made any fuss.) Or maybe the media figure that showing American prisoners on TV will only drive Bush's ratings back up from the grave to the rude health of intensive care. Or maybe they just don't care about U.S. hostages, not compared to real news like Senate sleepovers to block unblocking a motion to vote for voting against a cloture motion on the best way to surrender in Iraq.

But I'll bet the mullahs wouldn't really care if everyone put Haleh Esfandiari on the front pages 24/7. It's only a few months since they seized a bunch of Royal Navy sailors and Royal Marines in international waters (an illegal act) and paraded them all over Iranian TV (in breach of the Geneva Conventions) and dressed up the female sailor in Islamic garb (another breach).

And the U.N. and the EU and all the other transnational arbiters of global order sent a strong message: "Whoa, you guys really need to tamp things down, de-escalate, defuse the confrontation." But, for some reason, they sent the strong message to the British government, not the Iranians. And, with the sailors' humiliation all over the media, the British public was inclined to agree. Almost to a man, they rose up and told Tony Blair: "This is all your fault for getting us into Iraq."

But outrage at Iran? There was none.

The ayatollahs figure that's how it usually goes with a plump, complacent Western world that just wants to be left alone and wishes these crazies would stop trying to catch its eye. Officially, Iran is "negotiating" with the European Union over its nuclear program. If this were a real negotiation, instead of a transnational pseudo-negotiation, the Iranians would be concerned to stop any complicating factors coming into play. Instead, every week they gaily toss new provocations into their EU chums' laps: In recent days, they've stoned to death various fellows for adultery and homo******ity, two activities to which Europeans are generally very partial.

But why let a few stonings throw your negotiations off track? And, if the Americans are so eager to get a seat at the negotiating table, why not remind them of the rules of the game? Last week, the Iranians paraded their U.S. hostages all over TV as they confessed to engaging in espionage, along the way fingering the Woodrow Wilson Center and George Soros as key elements in the plot to overthrow the ayatollahs. If only.

The week before, Iran captured 14 spies near the Iraqi border who it claimed were agents of American and British intelligence equipped with surveillance devices. The "spies" in question were squirrels – as in small furry animals very protective of their nuts (much like the Democratic Party regarding Mr. Soros). I'm prepared to believe that a crack team of rodents from NUTS (the Ninja Undercover Team of Squirrels) abseiled into key installations in Iran and garroted the Revolutionary Guards, but not that the U.S. and British governments had anything to do with it. If they have any CIA or MI6 training at all, they must be rogue squirrels from the Cold War days who've been laid off and gone feral.

In America, public opinion is in no mood for war with Iran. In Washington, Congress is focused on finding the most politically advantageous way to lose in Iraq. In Europe, they've already psychologically accepted the Iranian nuclear umbrella. In the Western world, where talks are not the means to the end but an end in themselves, we find it hard despite the evidence of 30 years to accept that Iran talks the talk and walks the walk. Once it goes nuclear, do you think there will be fewer fatwas on writers, stonings of homo******s, kidnappings in international waters, forced confessions of American hostages and bankrolling of terror groups worldwide? These latest hostages are part of a decades-old pattern of behavior. The longer it goes without being stopped, the worse it will be.

Source (http://washingtontimes.com/article/20070723/COMMENTARY08/107230017/1012/COMMENTARY).

Durandal
07-23-2007, 03:02 PM
Hostages?

When did this happen?

I thought they were prisoners. We relabeling stuff?

I live in the U.S. and we hold prisoners from other nations without much care for civil rights.

I wonder if there are any monetary rewards I could get for turning over MORE Iranians to their government. I might get me some money.

Railcat
07-23-2007, 04:00 PM
when are the americans going to release the 5 iranian diplomats that it has abducted and kept without charge for all these months?

Snoshi
07-23-2007, 04:03 PM
when are the americans going to release the 5 iranian diplomats that it has abducted and kept without charge for all these months?

lol.. you mean those RG members errr diplomats?

Railcat
07-23-2007, 04:10 PM
lol.. you mean those RG members errr diplomats?

The Iraqi foreign minister confirmed they were diplomats.

next?

Laworkerbee
07-23-2007, 04:12 PM
The Iraqi foreign minister confirmed they were diplomats.

next?

Confirmed? you are a laughable apologist for the Iranians.

Shadowstorm
07-23-2007, 04:12 PM
lol.. you mean those RG members errr diplomats?
Yeah I agree.

Railcat
07-23-2007, 04:17 PM
Confirmed? you are a laughable apologist for the Iranians.

The Iraqi foreign minister said they were diplomats.

What more do you want?


According to Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoshyar_Zebari), the detained Iranians had been working in Arbil with official sanction, and the liaison office was in the process to become a full consulate.[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_raid_on_Iranian_liaison_office_in_Arbil#_note-3) Officials of the Regional Government said that consular activities, such as the issuance of visas, had been carried out by the office staff since 1992, and they were treated as if they were accredited diplomats.[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_raid_on_Iranian_liaison_office_in_Arbil#_note-AsiaTimes-20070331)
In a report which was later confirmed by Massoud Barzani (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massoud_Barzani), the President of the Kurdistan Regional Government (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Regional_Government),[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_raid_on_Iranian_liaison_office_in_Arbil#_note-w3123) The Independent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Independent) noted that instead of the current captives, the U.S. had hoped to capture the deputy head of the Iranian Supreme National Security Council (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_National_Security_Council), Mohammed Jafari, and chief of intelligence of the IRGC, General Manuchehr Frouzandeh, who were on an official visit to Iraq to improve co-operation in the area of bilateral security, during which they met the Iraqi President (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_President) Jalal Talabani (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jalal_Talabani). Barzani stated: "They (the commanders) came here and they came openly. Their meetings with the president and myself were reported on television. The Americans came to detain this delegation, not the people in the office. They came to the wrong place at the wrong time."[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_raid_on_Iranian_liaison_office_in_Arbil#_note-Independent-20070403)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_raid_on_Iranian_liaison_office_in_Arbil#_note-IHT-20070406) It was also reported that U.S. troops attempted to detain people at the Arbil airport that same day, but that Kurdish forces intervened. Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoshyar_Zebari) said that there was almost a confrontation between U.S. and Kurdish troops at the airport but that "a massacre was avoided at the last minute."[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_raid_on_Iranian_liaison_office_in_Arbil#_note-WP-20070112)
Masoud Barzani (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masoud_Barzani) condemned the capture and demanded the quick release of Iranians.[18] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_raid_on_Iranian_liaison_office_in_Arbil#_note-9)[19] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_raid_on_Iranian_liaison_office_in_Arbil#_note-10) Kurdistani (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan) government was reportedly unaware of the US plans to raid the Iranian liaison office and did not know the purpose of the operation. After raiding the office, the US forces headed for Eikawa district, which hosts foreign companies and countries' representatives. Security forces of the Democratic Party of Kurdistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Democratic_Party) (KDP) reportedly surrounded three US military vehicles to prevent them from further action.[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_raid_on_Iranian_liaison_office_in_Arbil#_note-11)

The UN Secretary General (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Secretary_General)'s described the incident as "disputes between individual states". A UN spokesman said "We've left it to the respective countries to work it out among themselves ... Ultimately it's up to Security Council members themselves to determine how its resolutions get implemented."[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_raid_on_Iranian_liaison_office_in_Arbil#_note-AsiaTimes-20070331)6 months later and they are still held without charge.

Unfortunately, the UN can't grow a spine and actually do something about it.

Railcat
07-23-2007, 04:23 PM
so what now, gents?

Your hunches based on fox news reports; or the official statements from members of the Iraqi government?

markjh
07-23-2007, 05:04 PM
so what now, gents?

Your hunches based on fox news reports; or the official statements from members of the Iraqi government?

You're on roll today, arent you?
Refuting everyone elses comments with wikipedia "sources"...
I would suggest, you read up on your iranian idol on memri.org while I get some super credible sources at debka p-)

Railcat
07-23-2007, 05:09 PM
You're on roll today, arent you?
Refuting everyone elses comments with wikipedia "sources"...
I would suggest, you read up on your iranian idol on memri.org while I get some super credible sources at debka p-)

so you're just going to dismiss quoted directly attributed to senior members of the iraq government?

that's a bit convenient.

Kak
07-23-2007, 05:34 PM
You're on roll today, arent you?
Refuting everyone elses comments with wikipedia "sources"...
I would suggest, you read up on your iranian idol on memri.org while I get some super credible sources at debka p-)
I'm not sure if you're familiar with how Wikipedia works, but all of those quotes are sourced, click on the numbers in brackets, and it will bring you to the sources part of the wikipedia article, and then all you have to do is match up the corresponding number with the source.

Hilbert
07-23-2007, 05:50 PM
Simply amazing, six months now and it doesn't even merit a story on CNN (what a surprise). I'd never even heard of this, definately something worth telling people about, thanks for the article TheStorm.


Unfortunately, the UN can't grow a spine and actually do something about it.

I hate to be blunt, but welcome to the real world my freind. The UN can't grow enough of a spine to decide on how to make a cup of coffee let alone something significant like solving things. I suppose on the bright side that helps them from making stupid decisions, like the one your suggesting, to some degree anyway. :roll:

Regards,
Hilbert

Kak
07-23-2007, 06:19 PM
Simply amazing, six months now and it doesn't even merit a story on CNN (what a surprise). I'd never even heard of this, definately something worth telling people about, thanks for the article TheStorm.
Although it wouldn't be smart of me to make a serious guess on what your political beliefs are from this post, I'm going to go ahead with not being smart and make a slight assumption that you're "right of center". And if that's the case, considering how the right feels about CNN, I'm not sure how much of it you watch.

As for me, I watch CNN all the time, and they run stories on the American prisoners in Iran VERY often, and have been for a long time now. They started doing it big time when Haleh Esfandiari (who is the focal point of the CNN reporting) was arrested, and always report on new developments.

Laworkerbee
07-23-2007, 06:21 PM
Although it wouldn't be smart of me to make a serious guess on what your political beliefs are from this post, I'm going to go ahead with not being smart and make a slight assumption that you're "right of center". And if that's the case, considering how the right feels about CNN, I'm not sure how much of it you watch.

As for me, I watch CNN all the time, and they run stories on the American prisoners in Iran VERY often, and have been for a long time now. They started doing it big time when Haleh Esfandiari (who is the focal point of the CNN reporting) was arrested, and always report on new developments.

The LA Times has been covering this for a while now as well, it made the front page of the Sunday paper yesterday.

Iranian American's chilling return to homeland
Tehran officials won't let Parnaz Azima leave. She says it's been a case of 'spy, and you're free.'

http://www.latimes.com/news/custom/topofthetimes/world/la-fg-azima22jul22,1,7372593.story

Durandal
07-23-2007, 10:05 PM
I don't get it. She's a spy. She has been imprisoned.

What is everyone bitching about? Maybe they should torture her a bit...a little water boarding, a couple years in jail, no letters to or from family, no contact with the outside world.

I bet she'll talk then.

Laworkerbee
07-24-2007, 11:34 AM
I don't get it. She's a spy. She has been imprisoned.

What is everyone bitching about? Maybe they should torture her a bit...a little water boarding, a couple years in jail, no letters to or from family, no contact with the outside world.

I bet she'll talk then.

More like an enemy of the state but not a spy! She is not gathering intelligence for anyone she is simply disseminating information as a journalist at a radio station albeit one sponsored by the United States

Durandal
07-24-2007, 11:38 AM
More like an enemy of the state but not a spy! She is not gathering intelligence for anyone she is simply disseminating information as a journalist at a radio station albeit one sponsored by the United States

Well that sounds like a good enough reason. I think they should waterboard her.

Hilbert
07-25-2007, 04:43 AM
Although it wouldn't be smart of me to make a serious guess on what your political beliefs are from this post, I'm going to go ahead with not being smart and make a slight assumption that you're "right of center". And if that's the case, considering how the right feels about CNN, I'm not sure how much of it you watch.

As for me, I watch CNN all the time, and they run stories on the American prisoners in Iran VERY often, and have been for a long time now. They started doing it big time when Haleh Esfandiari (who is the focal point of the CNN reporting) was arrested, and always report on new developments.

Actually, I'm neutral, there are things I like about both sides and things I dislike about both sides. I appoligize if I came across a bit to strong, I have a bad tendency to do that. I wasn't saying it didn't happen, all I'm saying is I haven't seen it before. And personally, I have no real problems with CNN aside from that they seem to reair the same things over and over again and keep dragging the same thing on forever unless it's "Breaking News" That's how it seems for me anyways.

Best Regards,
Hilbert