The trgedy of our day in America - James Spader

[netchicken]

Powerful video from Boston legal where Alan Shore (James Spader) talks about freedom in America today.


The tragedy of our day is the climate of fear in which we live and fear breeds repression. Too often, sinister threats to the Bill of Rights, to freedom of the mind are concealed under the patriotic cloak of anti-Communism.

http://www.youtube.com/v/P682rGIhZwI
(darn how do you embed?)

Link here if video doesn't work
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P682rGIhZwI

Alan Shore: When the weapons of mass destruction thing turned out to be not true, I expected the American people to rise up. Ha! They didn't.

Then, when the Abu Ghraib torture thing surfaced and it was revealed that our government participated in rendition, a practice where we kidnap people and turn them over to regimes who specialize in torture, I was sure then the American people would be heard from. We stood mute.

Then came the news that we jailed thousands of so-called terrorists suspects, locked them up without the right to a trial or even the right to confront their accusers. Certainly, we would never stand for that. We did.

And now, it's been discovered the executive branch has been conducting massive, illegal, domestic surveillance on its own citizens. You and me. And I at least consoled myself that finally, finally the American people will have had enough. Evidentially, we haven't.

In fact, if the people of this country have spoken, the message is we're okay with it all. Torture, warrantless search and seizure, illegal wiretappings, prison without a fair trial - or any trial, war on false pretenses. We, as a citizenry, are apparently not offended.

There are no demonstrations on college campuses. In fact, there's no clear indication that young people seem to notice.

Well, Melissa Hughes noticed. Now, you might think, instead of withholding her taxes, she could have protested the old fashioned way. Made a placard and demonstrated at a Presidential or Vice-Presidential appearance, but we've lost the right to that as well. The Secret Service can now declare free speech zones to contain, control and, in effect, criminalize protest.

Stop for a second and try to fathom that.

At a presidential rally, parade or appearance, if you have on a supportive t-shirt, you can be there. If you are wearing or carrying something in protest, you can be removed.

This, in the United States of America. This in the United States of America. Is Melissa Hughes the only one embarrassed?

*Alan sits down abruptly in the witness chair next to the judge*

Judge Robert Sanders: Mr. Shore. That's a chair for witnesses only.

Really long speeches make me so tired sometimes.

Judge Sanders: Please get out of the chair.

Alan: Actually, I'm sick and tired.

Judge Sanders: Get out of the chair!

Alan: And what I'm most sick and tired of is how every time somebody disagrees with how the government is running things, he or she is labeled unAmerican.

U.S. Attorney Jonathan Shapiro: Evidentally, it's speech time.

Alan: And speech in this country is free, you hack! Free for me, free for you. Free for Melissa Hughes to stand up to her government and say "Stick it"!

U.S. Attorney Jonathan Shapiro: Objection!

Alan: I object to government abusing its power to squash the constitutional freedoms of its citizenry. And, God forbid, anybody challenge it. They're smeared as being a heretic. Melissa Hughes is an American. Melissa Hughes is an American. Melissa Hughes is an American!

Judge Sanders: Mr. Shore. Unless you have anything new and fresh to say, please sit down. You've breached the decorum of my courtroom with all this hooting.

Alan: Last night, I went to bed with a book. Not as much fun as a 29 year old, but the book contained a speech by Adlai Stevenson.

The year was 1952. He said, "The tragedy of our day is the climate of fear in which we live and fear breeds repression. Too often, sinister threats to the Bill of Rights, to freedom of the mind are concealed under the patriotic cloak of anti-Communism."

Today, it's the cloak of anti-terrorism. Stevenson also remarked, "It's far easier to fight for principles than to live up to them."

I know we are all afraid, but the Bill of Rights - we have to live up to that. We simply must. That's all Melissa Hughes was trying to say. She was speaking for you. I would ask you now to go back to that room and speak for her.

http://www.boston-legal.org/19-stickit/ep19-stickit.shtml

[MichaelF]

Ah, yes, an actor who makes more money in a month than most Americans make all year (while not doing anything particularly useful), will now dictate to us about "freedom" and what it means to be American...

[WarriorMonk]

and yet the SAME F**KTARDS who say that the current state of our country is for shyte don't really have anything NEW to offer that I haven't seen, other than undoing all of the moron at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue's policies.

I have a problem with the executive branch's current abuse of power. I have an even bigger problem with people who can't offer VIABLE alternatives other than "I'm not doing what HE did :P"

I can't wait for the Second Civil War to begin, how about you?

Oh, and if this is really all about free speech, then hypothetically I should have the unrestricted right to wear a "peace through superior firepower" T-Shirt, and bang on a giant motherf**king drum that reads "WAR FOREVERMORE!" at a peace rally, and not be removed, because it is my way of protesting. I should be able to go to the Democratic National Convention with a thousand of those loony Protest Warriors and hold up a sign with the nominee's name saying that he/she sucks a giant fat ****, and not be removed, because it's my freedom of speech. I should be able to picket the Greenpeace HQ with a sign that says "Check your facts dumbshytes" or hang a sign outside of an office window facing The Nation's/The Weekly Standard's corporate HQ saying "Leftists/Right-Wingers burn in hell" and not have those taken down. If you can protest against anything "right-wing" which I can agree with that's fine. You shouldn't be snapping at me and trying to silence me if I decide to rail against the left.

Of course by now I know I already sound like an idiot, so don't call me out on it.

[Rictor]

Ah, yes, an actor who makes more money in a month than most Americans make all year (while not doing anything particularly useful), will now dictate to us about "freedom" and what it means to be American...

I think you're confusing the messenger and the message. They're independent.


I have a problem with the executive branch's current abuse of power. I have an even bigger problem with people who can't offer VIABLE alternatives other than "I'm not doing what HE did :P"

Sorry man, that's a bull**** arguement and you know it. If someone is killing kittens, you don't need a particular platform other than "stop killing kittens" in order to be superior. Even if you do nothing else, that's still bringing the balance to neutral, instead of being negative.

My problem is that none of the main Democratic or Republican candidates actually want to stop killing kittens, that is to say running America like an empire. If any politician ran on a platform of merely doing nothing, literally nothing, I would hold them in far higher regard than those who promise to do harm.

[Flagg]

Stevenson also remarked, "It's far easier to fight for principles than to live up to them."

THAT's pretty cool.

I think I'll have to read up on Adlai Stevenson a bit.

[vryhpyammoadded]

WMD’s: Why should they rise up? No really, why should they? So far as I’ve seen and, others I’ve spoken with, there’s been little need for concern over this issue.

Bill of Rights: So he’s saying the Bill of Rights protections extend beyond Americas sovereign boundaries to all mankind? This is like saying those Yahoos in Gitmo should also have social security numbers and medicade.

Right to trial: See above comment. (Note: blah, blah, blah this, that treaty. Sure we signed them but, show me a dozen MP’s and some officers from Gitmo and a CIA pilot or three up before a court, under oath, testifying with glossy photos, vid surveillance and a few actual bloody, beaten terrorists that didn’t deserve it and maybe I’ll feel a little sorry)

Domestic Surveillance: The illegality of it is still open to debate. Further, past war time precedent supports its use. In my opinion, based on historical precedent, this executive is going easy on you.

Offense taken: Nope not here. As a matter of fact I’ve always felt full war time powers should have been enacted so that counter propaganda could be disseminated and sedition laws enforced. About the only thing I’ve disagreed with were the earlier used methods of the counterinsurgency in Iraq but then again I’ve been hearing that was planned all along so as to bleed the jihadi’s a bit for a couple of years at the roach motel. I don’t like attrition strategy but hey, I’m not the Iraq expert. Who knows, it might work. Then again I might be sponging up the precious juice from a hub cap in four years too. Anyway, don’t give a dam…

Lack of demonstrations: Yes, isn’t it wonderful that so many people are not melodramatic cry baby tools of politicians and powers who would rather usurp the nation than follow the laws.

Free Speech Zones: LOL, It looks like this fool should go back and reread the law. It’s not quite what they think. Further, even if it was what he thinks, I’d be more than happy to assist in countering sedition in this nation.

If you want to protest, send a letter to your representative, get elected to important positions in your party or simply vote for the candidate who will actually do what you want. This is how a Republic works, not coerced by some collection of winy, low self esteem, narcissistic drama queens desiring air time. Go participate in politics, don’t try to be the mob dictatorship cramming some crappy apologist philosophy down other people’s throats. Participate in the Republic instead of coercing it and maybe there’ll be fewer of those sorts of politicians in power who play you so easily.

[AlterMega]

I think you're confusing the messenger and the message. They're independent.



Sorry man, that's a bull**** arguement and you know it. If someone is killing kittens, you don't need a particular platform other than "stop killing kittens" in order to be superior. Even if you do nothing else, that's still bringing the balance to neutral, instead of being negative.

My problem is that none of the main Democratic or Republican candidates actually want to stop killing kittens, that is to say running America like an empire. If any politician ran on a platform of merely doing nothing, literally nothing, I would hold them in far higher regard than those who promise to do harm.

isn't this why you elect your own politicians though -to deal with problems you may have?

[MichaelF]

I think you're confusing the messenger and the message. They're independent.
.

The message is legit, but it's application, in this context, is faulty.

[INCONEL]

THAT's pretty cool.

I think I'll have to read up on Adlai Stevenson a bit.

The man was "kick a$$" IMO..Didn't take sh!t from any1. My favorite quote by A.S.;

Man is a strange animal. He generally cannot read the handwriting on the wall until his back is up against it.

[RECON DOC]

WMD’s: Why should they rise up? No really, why should they? So far as I’ve seen and, others I’ve spoken with, there’s been little need for concern over this issue.

Bill of Rights: So he’s saying the Bill of Rights protections extend beyond Americas sovereign boundaries to all mankind? This is like saying those Yahoos in Gitmo should also have social security numbers and medicade.

Right to trial: See above comment. (Note: blah, blah, blah this, that treaty. Sure we signed them but, show me a dozen MP’s and some officers from Gitmo and a CIA pilot or three up before a court, under oath, testifying with glossy photos, vid surveillance and a few actual bloody, beaten terrorists that didn’t deserve it and maybe I’ll feel a little sorry)

Domestic Surveillance: The illegality of it is still open to debate. Further, past war time precedent supports its use. In my opinion, based on historical precedent, this executive is going easy on you.

Offense taken: Nope not here. As a matter of fact I’ve always felt full war time powers should have been enacted so that counter propaganda could be disseminated and sedition laws enforced. About the only thing I’ve disagreed with were the earlier used methods of the counterinsurgency in Iraq but then again I’ve been hearing that was planned all along so as to bleed the jihadi’s a bit for a couple of years at the roach motel. I don’t like attrition strategy but hey, I’m not the Iraq expert. Who knows, it might work. Then again I might be sponging up the precious juice from a hub cap in four years too. Anyway, don’t give a dam…

Lack of demonstrations: Yes, isn’t it wonderful that so many people are not melodramatic cry baby tools of politicians and powers who would rather usurp the nation than follow the laws.

Free Speech Zones: LOL, It looks like this fool should go back and reread the law. It’s not quite what they think. Further, even if it was what he thinks, I’d be more than happy to assist in countering sedition in this nation.

If you want to protest, send a letter to your representative, get elected to important positions in your party or simply vote for the candidate who will actually do what you want. This is how a Republic works, not coerced by some collection of winy, low self esteem, narcissistic drama queens desiring air time. Go participate in politics, don’t try to be the mob dictatorship cramming some crappy apologist philosophy down other people’s throats. Participate in the Republic instead of coercing it and maybe there’ll be fewer of those sorts of politicians in power who play you so easily.

You're a good little robot, You'll serve well under the new overlords.

[Lokos]

James Spader, the actor, has nothing to do with this message. He is in character. He's following a script that was most likely not one of his own making.

So, the title is a bit misleading.

Lokos

[Flagg]

James Spader, the actor, has nothing to do with this message. He is in character. He's following a script that was most likely not one of his own making.

So, the title is a bit misleading.

Lokos

Yup.....I overlooked that bit myself

However, I did see an episode of this show(it's the one with Captain Kirk right?)

For all the gun nut, left wing haters here....in the one episode I saw he went all TJ Hooker and whipped out and started waving around what looked like an M1911 race gun threatening to smoke some guy.....it was pretty funny.....the only thing missing was him attached to the windshield of a car flying down the 405 with his toupee flapping in the breeze.

[MichaelF]

My problem is that none of the main Democratic or Republican candidates actually want to stop killing kittens, that is to say running America like an empire. .

We aren't run "like an Empire".

We are run (sometimes well, oftentimes badly) like a Hegemony*-oriented Republic. Which is what we are.

We have much more in common with the Athenian Hegemony (when Athens began to "aquire majority ownership" of the rest of the Delian League) than the Roman or British Empires.

Especially since the characteristics of an "Empire" almost entirely revolve around it's external operations, and you are complaining about our internal affairs (which bear no resemblance at all to any imperial format).

I suggest you look up the definition of "Empire" (Hint: it will only cover external operations), and then read up on how the classical empires (Persian, Roman, Byzantine and British) conducted their internal affairs (government, etc).

You won't find any resemblence between the empires and the US.

We are a Republic, with a (deliberately) empowered Presidency/Executive. President Bush isn't doing 1/4 of what FDR got away with. Much less Lincoln (habeus corpus has fared much, much better under Bush than it did under Lincoln, who suspended it outright for 4 years).


Definition:

Hegemony (Greek: γεμονία hēgemonía) is a concept that has been used to describe the existence of dominance of one social group over another, such that the ruling group -- referred to as a hegemon -- acquires some degree of consent from the subordinate, as opposed to dominance purely by force

[vryhpyammoadded]

What new overlords? There won’t be a thing left to lord over in the next 10 years anyway after these crooks are done feasting on the US political carcass.

[Merfeller]

What new overlords? There won’t be a thing left to lord over in the next 10 years anyway after these crooks are done feasting on the US political carcass.


Ooh, the drama...why not just move or off yourself now if it's that bad? Why stick around for the hell you foresee?

[Doublethinker]

Bill of Rights: So he’s saying the Bill of Rights protections extend beyond Americas sovereign boundaries to all mankind?

Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.

- Martin Luther King Jr.

That has been the core of proclaimed american foreign policy for many years.

[vryhpyammoadded]

Ooh, the drama...why not just move or off yourself now if it's that bad? Why stick around for the hell you foresee?
Sorry, nope. I like it here more than all the other countries I've visited. Off myself? Now why would I want to do that what with so many Neanderthals like yourself to educate.
It’s better to rule in hell and not miss all the fun.

[8thidpathfinderpower]

Maybe he better lay off the peyote...I have to give him credit on one thing tho....he must have been higher thatn the international space station when he made that speech......

[8thidpathfinderpower]

and yet the SAME F**KTARDS who say that the current state of our country is for shyte don't really have anything NEW to offer that I haven't seen, other than undoing all of the moron at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue's policies.

I have a problem with the executive branch's current abuse of power. I have an even bigger problem with people who can't offer VIABLE alternatives other than "I'm not doing what HE did :P"

I can't wait for the Second Civil War to begin, how about you?

Oh, and if this is really all about free speech, then hypothetically I should have the unrestricted right to wear a "peace through superior firepower" T-Shirt, and bang on a giant motherf**king drum that reads "WAR FOREVERMORE!" at a peace rally, and not be removed, because it is my way of protesting. I should be able to go to the Democratic National Convention with a thousand of those loony Protest Warriors and hold up a sign with the nominee's name saying that he/she sucks a giant fat ****, and not be removed, because it's my freedom of speech. I should be able to picket the Greenpeace HQ with a sign that says "Check your facts dumbshytes" or hang a sign outside of an office window facing The Nation's/The Weekly Standard's corporate HQ saying "Leftists/Right-Wingers burn in hell" and not have those taken down. If you can protest against anything "right-wing" which I can agree with that's fine. You shouldn't be snapping at me and trying to silence me if I decide to rail against the left.

Of course by now I know I already sound like an idiot, so don't call me out on it.

At last..someone who gets "it"!!!!!!

Jimmy Spader boy can go slob on a knob for all I care. And the same goes for anyone else who wants to pervert and distort the "american way".

What Jimmy boy and others like him fail to see is that what makes our country great is that we do have them rights. And, we have have a choice to follow the left or right, or someones butt plug for all that matters.

MY narrow minded communistic blinded friend jimmy boy spader and all those who are with him....thank god for all these right-wing, war mongering, gun toting, money grubbing right wingers...thank god for those who bring balance to a very complex problem....the balance of two groups, who through their individul logic, brings balance to a country and make it what it is....a free place to live.

[ozumn]

WOW you blame Spader for what he says in a tv show, lmao!!!

[8thidpathfinderpower]

WOW you blame Spader for what he says in a tv show, lmao!!!

No, I blame Spader for opening his mouth, and showing the world just how stupid he really is.

[California Joe]

Asshead, it wasn't real life. A group of writers wrote that.

PS Martin Sheen isn't the President either.

[Flagg]

Asshead, it wasn't real life. A group of writers wrote that.

PS Martin Sheen isn't the President either.

But Fred Thompson is running for President....are you saying he wasn't an Admiral, NYC DA, and other Very Important Government Official in real life?

I'm getting REALLY confused.....things were so much simpler way back in the day when TJ Hooker was swinging on the hood of a Chevy catching bad guys....when exactly did TJ find the time to get his law degree when he was so busy catching bad guys, screwing Uhura, and getting new hair?

[nagant_m44]

Asshead, it wasn't real life. A group of writers wrote that.

PS Martin Sheen isn't the President either.

wasn't michael douglas president a few years ago?
http://www.impawards.com/1995/posters/american_president_ver2.jpg

[budgie]

WMD’s: Why should they rise up? No really, why should they? So far as I’ve seen and, others I’ve spoken with, there’s been little need for concern over this issue.

I think by rise up the writers mean to have more courage when casting a vote


Bill of Rights: So he’s saying the Bill of Rights protections extend beyond Americas sovereign boundaries to all mankind? This is like saying those Yahoos in Gitmo should also have social security numbers and medicade.

No, but if America is going to sit in the lofty saddle of Human rights then she needs to respect these abroad - even if she's the last one left doing so.


Domestic Surveillance: The illegality of it is still open to debate. Further, past war time precedent supports its use. In my opinion, based on historical precedent, this executive is going easy on you.

Haha that's laughable: it's only 'open to debate' as long as Bush and Cheney refuse to admit their error. Come Jan, 2009 the debate will be over.


Free Speech Zones: LOL, It looks like this fool should go back and reread the law. It’s not quite what they think. Further, even if it was what he thinks, I’d be more than happy to assist in countering sedition in this nation.

Disagreeing with policy and openly protesting same is not sedition. In fact other than planning armed rebellion I do not know what in a democracy could possibly constitute sedition. The idea that it is wrong to speak against the executive in a time of war is based on the false assumption that said war was justly waged. The Right does not own the law - get over yourselves.


If you want to protest, send a letter to your representative, get elected to important positions in your party or simply vote for the candidate who will actually do what you want. This is how a Republic works, not coerced by some collection of winy, low self esteem, narcissistic drama queens desiring air time. Go participate in politics, don’t try to be the mob dictatorship cramming some crappy apologist philosophy down other people’s throats. Participate in the Republic instead of coercing it and maybe there’ll be fewer of those sorts of politicians in power who play you so easily.

I agree for the most part with this statement however the option to protest should also be part of the process. Elected officials are not given a free hand to do what they want with their terms. There are still checks and balances and they are still beholden to their electorate. If enough people demand a change of course - be it through protests or petition - then leaders are obliged to do so.

[vryhpyammoadded]

No, but if America is going to sit in the lofty saddle of Human rights then she needs to respect these abroad - even if she's the last one left doing so.
Totally agree but as I said, show me proof of government sanctioned violations of laws the US ratified and I’ll jump on the noisy, protesting (within reason) bandwagon. (Note: Abu Garib doesn’t denote proof of government sanctioned violations in my opinion. It only proves some idiots in a local command got stupid and lazy) Until then, I feel so many ranting so melodramatically hard over hearsay and rumor about it serves no good purpose and even supports the enemy.


Haha that's laughable: it's only 'open to debate' as long as Bush and Cheney refuse to admit their error. Come Jan, 2009 the debate will be over.
I and many other Americans still disagree that there has been an error with the domestic surveillance and sure, the people can elect whomever they please to make this right or wrong via the voting booth. Which is pretty much what I addressed earlier in another part of this…
In my opinion, considering the current terror reasons, it isn’t a big deal. Now, if they continue bypassing FISA after a war, I’ll gladly assist in removing them from power with lead if need be.


Disagreeing with policy and openly protesting same is not sedition. In fact other than planning armed rebellion I do not know what in a democracy could possibly constitute sedition. The idea that it is wrong to speak against the executive in a time of war is based on the false assumption that said war was justly waged. The Right does not own the law - get over yourselves.

Totally agree with the first sentence and even the second is true but this isn’t a Democracy, it’s a Republic where the people representing the nation have the decision making power. The only way the voters can decide policy is via communication amongst each other to form new voting factions (which we are doing on this forum), sending letters of there displeasure to there representatives and, most importantly via there vote.
I never once said or implied that it is wrong to speak against the executive in peace or times of war. You guys need to floss all that cloudy polarizing melodrama out of your heads. Listen, it’s your right as per the “Bill of Rights” to speak out but, as I said before, during times of war, it is my opinion that anti-sedition laws must be enforced.
The debates that the Iraq war was just or not doesn’t even allow for some voters personal pleasure to bypass the constitution. The decision and enforcement powers are up on the Hill. Only they can determine the validity of the charges and act accordingly.
What I was getting at is that there has been “some” seditious behavior (in my opinion) in this country since 9/11 and that the executive has been lenient by not really pursuing any visible sanctions and that personally I wouldn’t have been as easy on some of these people. Then again I probably wouldn’t have invaded Iraq either or at least would have chosen other tactics.






I agree for the most part with this statement however the option to protest should also be part of the process. Elected officials are not given a free hand to do what they want with their terms. There are still checks and balances and they are still beholden to their electorate. If enough people demand a change of course - be it through protests or petition - then leaders are obliged to do so.
Like I said earlier, protesting is fine. People have to be able to communicate there warnings to there representatives that they won’t have a job next election if they don’t listen but sedition, which has happened in the eye of this beholder, is absolutely wrong.
Let me refine the next sentence. Elected officials are given a free hand to do as they please as long as they abide by the law (checks and balances). If an elected official desires to commit political suicide by ignoring his constituents, he’s more than welcome to. (Beholden to the electorate)

Many are so caught up in this whole melodramatic affair (Iraq etc… ) that they’re not seeing the un-shrill, quietly spoken points. Like many, I too am unhappy with the direction my government is going. Iraq is only one screw up of many that course through the whole government and both crappy parties. What I find deplorable is the fact so many people have lost there minds to shrill, uncivilized ways of communicating there displeasure to the point of ready, fire, aim. Hell, even I’ve fallen into it at times.

Iraq, Bush and the parties are not the problem; they are only symptoms of a bigger issue where the nations polarized quarters can’t get there acts together without the genocide of there philosophical flipside. Meanwhile the political foxes (of both parties) are running through the hen house during the mass media hyped distractions.
This sort of no holds barred, winner take all politics only leads to a banana republic with alternating generalissimos and rebels in the hills waiting for there big break to come back and get some revenge.
This is why I’m sick of all the overwhelming, droning anti Bush hype. In my opinion, there’s plenty of smear to go around for both parties. They’ve both failed me!

[loganinkosovo]

"When the weapons of mass destruction thing turned out to be not true, I expected the American people to rise up. Ha! They didn't.

Then, when the Abu Ghraib torture thing surfaced and it was revealed that our government participated in rendition, a practice where we kidnap people and turn them over to regimes who specialize in torture, I was sure then the American people would be heard from. We stood mute.

Then came the news that we jailed thousands of so-called terrorists suspects, locked them up without the right to a trial or even the right to confront their accusers. Certainly, we would never stand for that. We did.

And now, it's been discovered the executive branch has been conducting massive, illegal, domestic surveillance on its own citizens. You and me. And I at least consoled myself that finally, finally the American people will have had enough. Evidentially, we haven't.

In fact, if the people of this country have spoken, the message is we're okay with it all. Torture, warrantless search and seizure, illegal wiretappings, prison without a fair trial - or any trial, war on false pretenses. We, as a citizenry, are apparently not offended."


We didn't stand mute, Hell, we stood up and applauded! The Real America knows what is the truth and what is a pack of lies foisted upon the world by the "Hollywood" set and their accomplices in the Main Stream Media. We cheered that someone had the balls to stand up to the Islamo-Fascists and Stop them cold. Funny how the Homeland hasn't been attacked again in the last 6 frigging years.

So the Hollywood types and the Anti-American Leftists can Kiss my Big White Irish-American A$$!

Sh!t, I thought they were all going to Canada and France.....whats holding them up?

[Bia]

But Fred Thompson is running for President....are you saying he wasn't an Admiral, NYC DA, and other Very Important Government Official in real life?

I'm getting REALLY confused.....things were so much simpler way back in the day when TJ Hooker was swinging on the hood of a Chevy catching bad guys....when exactly did TJ find the time to get his law degree when he was so busy catching bad guys, screwing Uhura, and getting new hair?
agreed...
however James Tiberius Kirk really knew how to woo the ladies!

:swoon:
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w21/Bia666/234t24t.gif

[JKD]

We didn't stand mute, Hell, we stood up and applauded!
Yeah woohoo!!! F**k that danged 'ol pesky Constitution. It was getting in the way of our never ending war against the emotion of "Terror". Pass me a Coors Light.


The Real America knows what is the truth and what is a pack of lies foisted upon the world by the "Hollywood" set and their accomplices in the Main Stream Media. We cheered that someone had the balls to stand up to the Islamo-Fascists and Stop them cold.
Impressive use of conservative catch phrases and use of conspiracies by those eeevil Hollywood types and their nefarious co-consprirators in the mainstream media to destroy "Real America". I'm sure at the next meeting of the Hollywood And Liberal Mainstream Media Alliance Of Destroy America in their secret underground lair they'll be quite disconcerted that you've found them out.

You modern day big intrusive government "conservatives" are a strange lot.


and Funny how the Homeland hasn't been attacked again in the last 6 frigging years.
Funny how it hadn't been attacked in the 8 friggin years prior to 9/11.


So the Hollywood types and the Anti-American Leftists can Kiss my Big White Irish-American A$$!
What about those who don't agree with our current policies that aren't Hollywood types, "Anti-american Leftists", or even liberal for that matter?

[Vandervahn]

... President Bush isn't doing 1/4 of what FDR got away with. Much less Lincoln (habeus corpus has fared much, much better under Bush than it did under Lincoln, who suspended it outright for 4 years). ...


Wouldn´t you agree that there are slight differences between FDRs time and today? Namely that 65 year ago, America was involved in an existential conflict which today it is not, and that civility as well as political culture has made groundbreaking developments since then (for example, inter-national compromise replacing inter-national competition -> NATO, EU etc. ...)