Desecrating Quaran now a hate crime NY

[Zoomie]

Hate-crime arrests in Quran desecrations at Pace University


July 27, 2007, 8:33 PM EDT

NEW YORK (AP) _ A 23-year-old man was arrested Friday on hate-crime charges after he threw a Quran in a toilet at Pace University on two separate occasions, police said.

Stanislav Shmulevich of Brooklyn was arrested on charges of criminal mischief and aggravated harassment, both hate crimes, police said. It was unclear if he was a student at the school. A message left at the Shmulevich home was not immediately returned.

The Islamic holy book was found in a toilet at Pace's lower Manhattan campus by a teacher on Oct. 13. A student discovered another book in a toilet on Nov. 21, police said.

Muslim activists had called on Pace University to crack down on hate crimes after the incidents. As a result, the university said it would offer sensitivity training to its students.

The school was accused by Muslim students of not taking the incident seriously enough at first. Pace classified the first desecration of the holy book as an act of vandalism, but university officials later reversed themselves and referred the incident to the New York Police Department's hate crimes unit.

The incidents came amid a spate of vandalism cases with religious or racial overtones at the school. In an earlier incident on Sept. 21, the school reported another copy of the Quran was found in a library toilet, and in October someone scrawled racial slurs on a student's car at the Westchester County satellite campus and on a bathroom wall at the campus in lower Manhattan. Police did not connect Shmulevich to those incidents.

Treatment of the Quran is a sensitive issue for Muslims, who view the book as a sacred object and mistreating it as an offense against God. The religion teaches that the Quran is the direct word of God.

In 2005, Newsweek magazine published and later retracted a story claiming U.S. interrogators at a prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, flushed a copy of the holy book down a toilet. The report sparked deadly demonstrations in Afghanistan and protests throughout the Middle East.

Pace University has 14,000 students on its campuses in New York City and Westchester County.

Messages left for school administrators and for officials with the New York and national chapters of the Council on American-Islamic Relations were not immediately returned Friday evening.

Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman for the national CAIR office in Washington, D.C., has said the organization receives frequent reports of Quran desecrations in the United States, especially postings on Internet sites, but seldom makes them public.

He said CAIR decided to speak out about the Pace incidents because Muslim students are impacted by the creation of what could be viewed as a hostile campus environment.
Source (http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny--vandalismquran0727jul27,0,6882662.story)Do something a bible, and you can call it art. But when it comes to the Quaran, it's a hate crime and you must pay for it! :cantbeli: Sheesh, people need to wake up and realize that organizations like CAIR are no good whatsoever.

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

So, you burn a flag an American Flag, and your protected by the Constitution, but you pitch a Quran in the toilet and it's hate crime?



Muslim activists had called on Pace University to crack down on hate crimes after the incidents. As a result, the university said it would offer sensitivity training to its students. :petting:

[deagle]

i think that the law and universities when addressing this issue should make it a hate crime to vandalize any place/item of worship for ANY religion. they make it sound as if desecrating a Bible is ok or at least not as seriious, unless students call for that as well..

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

i think that the law and universities when addressing this issue should make it a hate crime to vandalize any place/item of worship for ANY religion. they make it sound as if desecrating a Bible is ok or at least not as seriious, unless students call for that as well..

I don't know. I think any law like that would conceivably violate the Establishment Clause.

[vinny_121_ND]

I think everybody should get sensitivity training regardless of what your ethnic background is.

[Lazy Lob]

Deagle, you are confusing two issues, maybe not intentionally. But your observation is a slippery slope. How does one define a hate crime when basing it on personal offence?

If you buy it you can burn it, flush it down the toilet and handle the fall out. No crime committed.

You burn down some one else’s property, well there are laws for that.

So if I decide to flush Mein Kampf, Mao’s Little Red Book or a Beano Annual can I be done for offence? Who or what decides?

We are all going to end up walking on egg shells with bigots in charge. They should get a fecking backbone.

[Hydro]

So if I decide to flush Mein Kampf, Mao’s Little Red Book or a Beano Annual can I be done for offence? Who or what decides?






You sonofa.....That SHOULD be a hate crime.

[Scrim]

So is bringing a ham sandwich for your school lunch considered a hate crime yet? Didnt some kid get arrested for that?

[schwarz]

Dont give them ideas.

[Lazy Lob]

You sonofa.....That SHOULD be a hate crime.

Roger the Dodger would have me in shackles having my scrote boiled in hot oil. rofl

[AlterMega]

fvcking rediculous!This makes me feel even more negatively about their religion in general.CAIR can go fvck off and implement sharia elsewhere!

[SineJustitia]

Whatever happened to good old fashioned over the top, sick humour?

Why didn't any Gitmo PIO, after the alleged flushing down a toilet of a Quran to enrage detainees, try to calm down the situation by stating:

"There is no truth in the allegation that Quran's were flushed down toilets. You can rest asured, because we tried it, and after multiple failed attempts, we have scientifically proven that a Quran is simply too big to flush down a toilet."

[camerashy]

I think the university is just hoping to give the students what they want so they don't go all bomb-crazy on campus. Seriously.

[AZRON]

I think everybody should get sensitivity training regardless of what your ethnic background is.

Sensitivity training ?

What's wrong with good old fashioned manners and respect ?
The responsibility starts with the family and not some PC lefty-nut job conducting sensitivity training with a political agenda buried in it.

Do we really have to do selective PC training ?
Didn't Peggy Noonan just say something like we are a wealthy nation but poor in manners.
Basic manners and basic ethics have all but been buried in U.S. culture.
Thank the lawyers for it !

[camerashy]

Muslim activists had called on Pace University to crack down on hate crimes after the incidents. As a result, the university said it would offer sensitivity training to its students.
Those Muslims don't really know what a hate crime is, IMO. I'm used to gays being drug behind trucks in Mississippi.
And what about sensitivity training so that Muslims don't offend white European Americans?

[XShipRider]

So the Moral Majority used the wrong tactic on Larry Flynt. They should have used hate crime legislation, probably non-existent at the time, to bring down his empire.

Then again, why didn't the guy just claim to be an artist ala Virgin Mary covered in cow dung or the holy cross upside down in a jar of urine?

[vinny_121_ND]

Well, being gay is punishable by death. Same with converting out of Islam. They don't seen what's wrong with hating gays, or ppl of a different religion.
Hate crime? It's justifiable. Do I agree with it? No.

[camerashy]

The word crime is ambiguous here and I don't see how it could be justifiable. Destruction of a book is not a hate crime, it is vandalism, at least in regards to putting it into the schools toilet. Islam in general has worlds to go before it catches up to the western democratic sense of justice and that is why I'm irritated at Muslims today being supersensitive to what the West says and does.

[mi35d]

Dead on folks. You can put a crucifix in a jar of piss, make a picture of Mother Mary out of **** pics and elephant crap, etc. and that's just fine - its art; free speech; free expression.

Drop a copy of the Quran in a crapper and you've just committed a felony? I wonder if this also covers bibles or other holy books?

[Calanen]

Drop a copy of the Quran in a crapper and you've just committed a felony? I wonder if this also covers bibles or other holy books?

Exactly. Wonder how this would go if taken up to the Supremo on First Amendment grounds. I think if you protect religious texts, you need to protect all of them...or none of them. Not just the text of the people most likely to turn over cars and throw petrol bombs when they are unhappy.

[helomech]

The Bible is the word of God as well,but you don't see Christians losing their minds when someone desecrates it,they get pissed,yell at the offending individual(s) and move on...

Making this a hate crime is utter bullsh1t,what's next?




Treatment of the Quran is a sensitive issue for Muslims, who view the book as a sacred object and mistreating it as an offense against God. The religion teaches that the Quran is the direct word of God.

[JJC]

What's ironic is that this has happened in Pace and not in Liberty U. I guess not everyone comes out of there hating the U.S. and singing Kumbaya... Throwing a Koran into a toilet is not acceptable, but I don't know if hate crime classification is appropriate in this case. If the guy went into a Muslim erea, or a Mosque and wrote anti Muslim slurs then it would be a hate crime.

This case is no different than when some neonazis wave the swastika flag at their meatings (1st amend), but if the same people would paint swastikas at a synagogue they would be charged with hate crimes.

[Skutatos]

Just tore up my copy of the koran and flushed it down the toilet. Made me feel all better inside.

[JJC]

Just tore up my copy of the koran and flushed it down the toilet. Made me feel all better inside.

Where did you buy one?p-) I want to get one with English translations, but I'm scared that the feds will be knocking at my door. :)

[Fenix]

Oh Jesus.

Go to youtube and search for "burn bible"

You will see number of videos of bible being burnt..

Where are the Christians screaming bloody murder and accusing the bible burners of hate crimes?

What we have here is two completely different cultures colliding.

I wonder if muslims will ever understand what "freedom of speech" means?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech

I guess the clerics will never let the ordinary muslims to have that kind of power. Freedom of speech after all.. Is what toppled the kings and tyrants that once ruled over Europe.

Which is exactly why it became such a important thing in that charming little country of all you Yanks out there.

I hope you wont start backtracking on the freedom of speech now.

[Skutatos]

I got mine at Borders, over by the bibles. Get one from the library though if you could. Rather difficult book to get through and you may regret buying one.

[oregongrunt]

If it was a bible or an American flag, nobody would care.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

If it was a bible or an American flag, nobody would care.Then the blame lies with the ordinary American who does not care, however American Muslims do.

[Rune_X2]

Which of these is a crime in America?

A pictorial pop quiz for you. Which of these is a hate crime in America?

A) Submerging a crucifix in a jar of urine.
http://michellemalkin.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/pisschrist1.jpg

B) Burning the American flag.
http://michellemalkin.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/flagburn1.jpg

C) Putting a Koran in a toilet.
http://michellemalkin.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/koranflush.jpg

Each is offensive and tasteless in its own way. But only one is a hate crime in the eyes of the law — C) — and 23-year-old Stanislav Shmulevich of Brooklyn faces jail time for it. He’s a Pace University student arrested on Friday on hate-crime charges after he threw a Koran in a toilet at Pace University on two separate occasions, according to police.

Charles Johnson at LGF has been in contact with Shmulevich. He reports that the student has been charged with two felonies, criminal mischief and aggravated harassment. Allahpundit has a thorough legal review.

Mark Steyn muses about the flushed Koran: “Obviously Mr Shmulevich should have submerged it in his own urine, applied for an NEA grant and offered it to the Whitney Biennial.”

Actually, no. The NEA would have turned Shmulevich into the police, too. Now, if he had submerged a Bible in urine or coated a Torah in cow dung and submitted it for a federal grant, he’d be sitting pretty–and facing rave New York Times editorials instead of time behind bars.

***

More reax…

Phil Orenstein at The Democracy Project has “been involved over the past year battling the censorship and outrages of the film police at Pace, where the administrators caved in to Muslim Student Association’s pressure and threatened police action against Hillel if they showed the film Obsession.” Orenstein notes the “double standard lurking at Pace, throughout academia and trickling down throughout the body politic where Muslims and certain identity groups get preferential treatment while others are spurned.”Which of these is a crime in America? (http://michellemalkin.com/2007/07/29/which-of-these-is-a-crime-in-america/)

[Breakfast in Vegas]

Then the blame lies with the ordinary American who does not care, however American Muslims do.

A combination of that and an over-zealous political left that sub-consciously believes "them good, us bad".

I think one should just desecrate any religious symbol as one pleases as long as it is not public property or (somebody else's) private property and is within the bounds of other legal issues, such as safety.

Burning things, whether a pile of qurans or a flag is a safety hazard, and should be only done in the privacy of your own home, preferably after dousing yourself in lamp oil.

I think it is a case of minority rights before majority rights. It's like white people complaining if they are discriminated against because of their race. Nobody's gonna listen.

[Durandal]

I must have missed the part where it says desecrating the Quran was a hate crime.

Edit: Sgt SNiper can you at least cut out the advertisement when copying and pasting articles?

[annihilation]

So, you burn a flag an American Flag, and your protected by the Constitution, but you pitch a Quran in the toilet and it's hate crime?

:petting:


Well one does cause people to blow their tops off.....

[Zoomie]

Edit: Sgt SNiper can you at least cut out the advertisement when copying and pasting articles?

I just did. I originally thought it had no ads at all, but when I checked it out in IE, there it was.

[m.i.t]

Do something a bible, and you can call it art. But when it comes to the Quaran, it's a hate crime and you must pay for it! :cantbeli: Sheesh, people need to wake up and realize that organizations like CAIR are no good whatsoever.


MATE ..if a man insult hollY jesus mary or bible like that idiotic method that man would be severe punished in any muslım country.....

madonnas sing " like a prayer " was banned many muslım countries in 1990 s era...

because that bi...h abuse the hollyness of Jesus...

l think this is not about Holly Quran or any muslim values...if there is fault in this case you should find it in western life style or law system...

[Lazy Lob]

MATE ..if a man insult hollY jesus mary or bible like that idiotic method that man would be severe punished in any muslım country.....

madonnas sing " like a prayer " was banned many muslım countries in 1990 s era...

because that bi...h abuse the hollyness of Jesus...

l think this is not about Holly Quran or any muslim values...if there is fault in this case you should find it in western life style or law system...

Oh dear. Where are the subtitles? I think I know where you’re going but I may be wrong.

BTW some say holly is a bush others say it's a tree.

[CPLHUNTER]

Doesn't really surprise me.

Guess I should cancel my Quran burning party tonight.

Sounds like BS to me.

[0rphie]

Dont give them ideas.
Man! you are so right about it!

[Durandal]

All I hear is a bunch of crying.

Seriously folks, no one is calling the desecration of the Quaran a hate crime.

I also do not think events like these in ANYWAY should be compared with performance pieces. The matter here is intent.

Like always, I think there should be no such thing as hate crime. That said, all I hear is a bunch of crying. THis is mainly a University issue, which tax dollars aside is not a public matter in the sense of rules of regulations. If they want to do some silly touchy-feely awareness programs, fine that's up to them.

Till you see State or local legislation call it a hate crime quit bitching or do something about it.

Man, I swear, its like regardless of the article we need to translate it for some of your...right or left of the political isle.

No where in this article does it say that the desecration of the Quaran is a hate crime.

End of discussion.

[AgentX]

Does desecrating LOTR count as a hate crime against hobbits, dwarves, elves and mortal men?

[SBL]

Does desecrating LOTR count as a hate crime against hobbits, dwarves, elves and mortal men?

You are such a dork.

[Durandal]

Does desecrating LOTR count as a hate crime against hobbits, dwarves, elves and mortal men?

No, just you nerds. p-)

[AgentX]

You are such a dork.
Blasphemy!

[Durandal]

Soooo...no takers on proving the claim of the thread, including its author?

Desecrating the Koran is NOT a hate crime.

Silliness...

[Zoomie]

Soooo...no takers on proving the claim of the thread, including its author?

Desecrating the Koran is NOT a hate crime.

Silliness...
Patience Durandal, patience. It is considered one, if it isn't than why was the Hate Crimes unit called out and is prosecuting it? Still not buying it, check out the actual court document, notice the words "Hate Crime" are used:
http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/9813/crimcomplaintnb8.th.jpg (http://img67.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crimcomplaintnb8.jpg)

[Lazy Lob]

Det. Faisal Khan ..................? Ok


http://www.amleoa.com/events.html

[Durandal]

Patience Durandal, patience. It is considered one, if it isn't than why was the Hate Crimes unit called out and is prosecuting it? Still not buying it, check out the actual court document, notice the words "Hate Crime" are used:
http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/9813/crimcomplaintnb8.th.jpg (http://img67.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crimcomplaintnb8.jpg)

THank you for providing the police document.

That said, defacing the book is NOT part of the hate crime. The motivation BEHIND the defacing of said property IS the reason behind the classification of this crime as being hate related.

I don't like to seem like I am dancing around this issue, but the perp said "he committed the acts out of anger toward a group of MUSLIM students...".

That's what got it labeled a hate crime.

He committed criminal mischief in the 4th degree (no big deal really) but then the reason WHY he did it slaps the hate part on it, which means he gets more time/fine, whatever.

A person can still cover the book in feces and call it art and not get arrested for hate.

The title of the thread is wrong...sorry, it is.

[LEGEND]

its a frigging book, not a person, how is it a hate crime?????

[Durandal]

its a frigging book, not a person, how is it a hate crime?????

Reread, then answer your question.

If you go out and buy a copy of the Koran and then wreck it, no crime has been committed. Wrecking someone's property, in this case a book, is a 4th degree criminal mischief. Wrecking someone's Koran because you want to get back at those Islamic ƒucks is considered a hate crime.

Its not that hard to understand.,,or maybe it is.

The problem is, we have crimes that we classify as hate, just like we classify certain crimes as "firearm" related crimes. Its aggravates the penalty.

You can kill someone, or you can kill someone with a gun. Killing someone with a gun carries more penalties with it than killing someone with you bare hands. Hell having bullets on your person and no gun can aggravate it in some states...maybe even federal law...I forget to be honest.

Same deal hear.

Normally this would have been a simple destruction of personal property case. Just like if someone had stolen a TV and smashed it on the curb or stolen and burned a flag. But because it was stolen with an explicit purpose of targeting a group a because of their religion, then you enter into hate crime.

See its not that hard to understand.

Again, defacing, destroying, or in anyway wrecking the Koran is NOT illegal. In fact its protected as a form of free speech.

So long as you OWN it.

Me > You