Defeat meaningless for those believing in martyrdom

[shocker1]

President: Defeat meaningless for those believing in martyrdom

Tehran (http://www2.irna.ir/en/news/line-22/key-79/), July 30, IRNA
http://server33.irna.com/filesystem/07/07/30/620819-00-30_n.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popupImages%28%27http://www2.irna.ir/index2.php?option=com_news&task=popup&code=0707306208190030&pindex=&pfrom=0&no_html=1&lang=en%27%29;) Iran (http://www2.irna.ir/en/news/line-22/key-5808/)-President (http://www2.irna.ir/en/news/line-22/key-5925/)-Martyrs (http://www2.irna.ir/en/news/line-22/key-34570/)
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said on Monday that defeat is meaningless for those believing in martyrdom.

Speaking to officials in charge of holding ceremony
commemorating martyrdom of 36,000 army commanders during eight years of sacred defence, he said martyr seeking spirit would is the strongest shelter against enemies' guns and machine guns and no one can confront a nation with such a high morale.
"The martyrdom seeking culture will protect us against all social problems," he said.
1430/1412 http://www2.irna.ir/en/news/view/line-22/0707306208190030.htm
I understand the reverence for the fallen heroes of Iran during the Iran-Iraq war. However that last sentence is a prime example of why the west does not get along with Iran or any other Middle eastern country. I know the context of Iranians point of view on this kind of talk would be like Memorial day discussion in the US. That kind of talk is taken different and processed from a totally opposite point of view in the US and other nations.

It is like that poster I saw a while back of the Ayatollah with missiles launching in the background. It would be like the US government hanging Pat Roberson pictures all around with weapons in hand, roses and many parades of weapons that no American civi has most likely seen.

[Con-man]

The martyr seeking culture will be without a society to have problems in, he's trying to use blind obedience to make people seem to completely forget about serious issues within Iran, which tells me that things are starting to strain if he's using memorial days to say this sort of stuff.

[kraf001]

unless you equate Martyrdom with suicide bomber, I don't see any problem with the statement... Iran simply won (or didn't lose the war, if you really want to get technical) because of its martyrs... in Iran martyrdom has a fix and fully defined meaning... we call anyone who dies during serving his country and countryman a martyr.. be it a police officer, fire fighter or a soldier... For a culture which is unique in ME in not producing suicide bombers I think you guys tend to (might be just ignorance or just a desire) to take the word "martyr" in its worst meaning... a lot of these "lost in translation" articles surface about Iran with no actual substance...

From what I know and personally came in contact with, the "martyrdom" in Iran which is being held so sacred is the same martyrdom always portrayed in Hollywood movies like "deep impact", "independence day", "Armageddon", etc.. something that is so glorified even in Western culture as being so selfless that you are ready to give your own life so the others can continue living or have better lives... However when it comes to Iran media always gets to turn this around and turn it into some guy wearing a ski mask and an explosive belt getting on a bus with full of children and blowing up... well sorry but we don't have those!!.. actually only Iranians who did this kind of things are MEK members which are under full protection of Americans and are protected by Westerners...

The most famous martyr in Iran is a 15 yo boy called "Hossein Fahmideh"... his story is that during the Iran-Iraq war he saw an array of Iraqi tanks advancing towards Iranian bunkers from a narrow unguarded passage... so he grabs a bunch of grenades and jumps in front of the tanks blowing up the first and delaying the advancement by loosing his own life in the process...OK this story could be a myth created for boosting morals but that is not the point.. the point is he is what we call a "martyr" in Iran and I am ready to bet my life that if such a person was in the British army during WWII or any other Western army at any other war you would have seen 100s of movies and books about him glorying his action... but things change when he is Iranian and it becomes wrong to promote selflessness using him as the highest degree of the trade.... I am sure you have a problem with this but being selfless could solve all social problems and this what "martyrdom" is... you know when a teacher dies in a classroom in Iran... he becomes a martyr!! do you see how things get lost in translation?

if even 1 percent of all these articles contained truth then we should have had an Iranian suicide bomber in world history...

[markjh]

kraf001: What about the Basiji? I used to work with an Iranian Doctor and he fled as young boy, because his parents didnt want him to become a martyr.
He was a really nice fella :)

Long but very interesting read about the Basiji:


During the Iran-Iraq War, the Ayatollah Khomeini imported 500,000 small
plastic keys from Taiwan. The trinkets were meant to be inspirational. After
Iraq invaded in September 1980, it had quickly become clear that Iran's
forces were no match for Saddam Hussein's professional, well-armed military.
To compensate for their disadvantage, Khomeini sent Iranian children, some
as young as twelve years old, to the front lines. There, they marched in
formation across minefields toward the enemy, clearing a path with their
bodies. Before every mission, one of the Taiwanese keys would be hung around
each child's neck. It was supposed to open the gates to paradise for them...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1620146/posts
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/65040.aspx

[kraf001]

kraf001: What about the Basiji? I used to work with an Iranian Doctor and he fled as young boy, because his parents didnt want him to become a martyr.
He was a really nice fella :)

Long but very interesting read about the Basiji:


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1620146/posts

since when freerepublic is a source?... Human-wave attacks was used in Iran-Iraq war but as a last ditched solution... I just fail to see the relation here? it was maybe wrong but it was a war and during a war many "wrong" can be done because they are just inevitable...

[markjh]

I know that freerepublic is not a source, but it was the only place, where i found an english translation about the Basiji. I know it was war, but sending kids trough mine fields with a plastic key from Taiwan is beyond my imagination.
The relation is martyrdom, be it as Basiji or the things you described. Both are seen as heros in your country. Plus the article shocker posted clearly says "...against enemies' guns and machine guns..."

[Con-man]

Self-less action through death doesn't help society as much as you would like to think it would, whilst I'm all for respecting those who've fallen after doing brave actions, I can't see a culture based around martyrdom as more productive than say a culture where self-less action is a more revered quality than sacrificing yourself.

[kraf001]

Self-less action through death doesn't help society as much as you would like to think it would, whilst I'm all for respecting those who've fallen after doing brave actions, I can't see a culture based around martyrdom as more productive than say a culture where self-less action is a more revered quality than sacrificing yourself.

only when you got over the internal desire that forces you to always equate "martyrdom = dying in battle" then you will understand that it is not so hard to build a successful society around martyrdom... like I said in Iran anybody who dies in the line of duty which requires a degree of selflessness is a martyr... fire man, police officer, teacher, doctor in a remote village, etc... the word "martyrdom" in Iranian culture is not as literal as you wish it is... it is a very simple philosophy actually, it is based on one being selfless and the highest degree of it is one being so selfless that he will dedicate his/her own life for well-being of others.... this is not saying that everybody should be out there sacrificing their life but to say if we get enough ppl on board inside this wide spectrum then we will have a chance for a successful society... the problem is in Ahmadinejad's case it just stays to be a political rant than reality...

[Laworkerbee]

Thanks for shedding some light on things kraf001

[kamaz]

lol @ "martyrdom seeking culture will protect us against all social ills"

good luck with that Ahmadina****ajooba

it just sucks to see the Iranian people living under a group of fundie idiots like these.

[Mailman]

I think a lot of the sh1t that moron speaks is purely for the internal market.

Also got a few Iranian friends who go on about Tehran being the centre of the evil empire but the further away you get from the capital the "freer" it gets.

Mailman

[Durandal]

Hehehe Iran...

You guys need to focus your worries on a nation that is less rational and actually HAS nukes, like Pakistan.

You know, the country that is STILL good friends with the Taliban, ruled by a dictator, and filled with super, poor, uneducated, islamic wack jobs, who is taking the money we have given it and purchased CHinese built jets?

[a_very_ex_STAB]

No doubt Pakistan will be the subject of Big Brother's orchestrated weekly hate session for the American proles next week :roll:

[Wodan]

No doubt Pakistan will be the subject of Big Brother's orchestrated weekly hate session for the American proles next week :roll:

how orwellian *lol*