Old-line Republican warns 'something's in the works' to trigger a police state

[lider_r]

i pinched this from over at the Sam Harris site (http://www.samharris.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8211) , quite an interesting piece.


Thom Hartmann began his program on Thursday by reading from a new Executive Order (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/07/20070717-3.html)which allows the government to seize the assets of anyone who interferes with its Iraq policies.

He then introduced old-line conservative Paul Craig Roberts -- a former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under Reagan who has recently become known for his strong opposition to the Bush administration and the Iraq War -- by quoting the "strong words" which open Roberts' l (http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts07162007.html)atest column (http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts07162007.html): "Unless Congress immediately impeaches Bush and Cheney, a year from now the US could be a dictatorial police state at war with Iran."
"I don't actually think they're very strong," said Roberts of his words. "I get a lot of flak that they're understated and the situation is worse than I say.

... When Bush exercises this authority [under the new Executive Order] ... there's no check to it. It doesn't have to be ratified by Congress. The people who bear the brunt of these dictatorial police state actions have no recourse to the judiciary. So it really is a form of total, absolute, one-man rule. ... The American people don't really understand the danger that they face."

Roberts said that because of Bush's unpopularity, the Republicans face a total wipeout in 2008, and this may be why "the Democrats have not brought a halt to Bush's follies or the war, because they expect his unpopular policies to provide them with a landslide victory in next year's election."

However, Roberts emphasized, "the problem with this reasoning is that it assumes that Cheney and Rove and the Republicans are ignorant of these facts, or it assumes that they are content for the Republican Party to be destroyed after Bush has his fling." Roberts believes instead that Cheney and Rove intend to use a renewal of the War on Terror to rally the American people around the Republican Party. "Something's in the works," he said, adding that the Executive Orders need to create a police state are already in place.

"The administration figures themselves and prominent Republican propagandists ... are preparing us for another 9/11 event or series of events," Roberts continued. "Chertoff has predicted them. ... The National Intelligence Estimate is saying that al Qaeda has regrouped. ... You have to count on the fact that if al Qaeda's not going to do it, it's going to be orchestrated. ... The Republicans are praying for another 9/11."
Hartmann asked what we as the people can do if impeachment isn't about to happen. "If enough people were suspicious and alert, it would be harder for the administration to get away with it," Roberts replied. However, he added, "I don't think these wake-up calls are likely to be effective," pointing out the dominance of the mainstream media.

"Americans think their danger is terrorists," said Roberts. "They don't understand the terrorists cannot take away habeas corpus, the Bill of Rights, the Constitution. ... The terrorists are not anything like the threat that we face to the Bill of Rights and the Constitution from our own government in the name of fighting terrorism. Americans just aren't able to perceive that."

Roberts pointed out that it's old-line Republicans like himself, former Reagan associate deputy attorney general Bruce Fein, and Pat Buchanan who are the diehards in warning of the danger. "It's so obvious to people like us who have long been associated in the corridors of power," he said. "There's no belief in the people or anything like that. They have agendas. The people are in the way. The Constitution is in the way. ... Americans need to comprehend and look at how ruthless Cheney is. ... A person like that would do anything."

Roberts final suggestion was that, in the absence of a massive popular outcry, "the only constraints on what's going to happen will come from the federal bureaucracy and perhaps the military. They may have had enough. They may not go along with it."

The full audio of Thom Hartmann's interview with Paul Craig Roberts can be found here. (http://www.archive.org/details/71907ThomHartmannInterviewsPaulCraigRoberts)

Source (http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Oldline_Republican_warns_somethings_in_works_0719.html)

[Alpheus]

What a load of BS. If you read the order, its about seizing the assets of the terrorists and those who help them, the government isn't going to go after ordinary folk walking down the street with a protest sign.
Besides, you gotta be a real numbskull to actually believe that the American people would accept a police state.

[darkstorm08]

Agreed. Meant only for the tin foil hat crowd. :roll:

[lider_r]

Besides, you gotta be a real numbskull to actually believe that the American people would accept a police state.

They accepted the PATRIOT act :)

[Merfeller]

A year and change away from a new president and these guys are still having wet dreams about impeachment. Amazing.

Also, Patriot Act or no Patriot Act, Americans would be the last people on Earth to accept a "police state" as anyone without an agenda would define it.

[Mu-Meson]

They accepted the PATRIOT act :)
Yeah, and just look at the tyrannical dictatorship that it spawned. Oh, wait.
Democrats think the government will fixing everything. Libertarians think the government will imprision everyone. The GOP thinks, well, I'm not sure what the heck they think anymore. However, in reality, the government can only f*ckup everything.

[WarriorMonk]

They accepted the PATRIOT act :)

if this was a police state, users El Hombre, budgie, khukuri, and firetmxi would have "mysteriously disappeared," and 2sheds and Mr.JOSHUA would have been named "Grand Super-Moderator Fuhrer of MP.net" overnight.

or something or other.

lider if this was a police state, you would have already been dead, one way or another.

[Hollis]

if this was a police state, users El Hombre, budgie, khukuri, and firetmxi would have "mysteriously disappeared," and 2sheds and Mr.JOSHUA would have been named "Grand Super-Moderator Fuhrer of MP.net" overnight.

or something or other.

lider if this was a police state, you would have already been dead, one way or another.



Well said!!!!

[Mr. JOSHUA]

if this was a police state, users El Hombre, budgie, khukuri, and firetmxi would have "mysteriously disappeared," and 2sheds and Mr.JOSHUA would have been named "Grand Super-Moderator Fuhrer of MP.net" overnight.

or something or other.

lider if this was a police state, you would have already been dead, one way or another.


Its my ultimate goal.

I would have 2sheds interrogated though, he's been caving in to firetxmi too much as of late.............water boarding or hiring Rosie O'Donnel to strip naked in front of him will extract his zionist intentions.

[Laworkerbee]

lider if this was a police state, you would have already been dead, one way or another.

I've never considered wanting to live in a police state until now p-)

[Red]

That is impossible. There is no way the US can be a police state, there will be riots in the street. No way Americans will trade their rights in for security because the ordinary American deeply understands that once you trade in your rights for security, the terro wins. Plus, no matter how bad our politicians are, none of them are that power hungry to piss our democracy down the toilet in the name of security. Never!

[Laworkerbee]

Well it can't happen until Lider gets his wet dream of disarming all American's

[Mr. JOSHUA]

More like a pipe dream.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Its my ultimate goal.

I would have 2sheds interrogated though, he's been caving in to firetxmi too much as of late.............water boarding or hiring Rosie O'Donnel to strip naked in front of him will extract his zionist intentions.

Everybody has their breaking point. Just being forced to watch Exit to Eden would have me confessing to things I didn't even do.

[Mr. JOSHUA]

Everybody has their breaking point. Just being forced to watch Exit to Eden would have me confessing to things I didn't even do.

.......:lol:

[WarriorMonk]

The fact is, to anyone that tries to use the police state argument, is that protestors of all stripes, neo nazis, pinko pacifists, anarchists (though they can be useful), racists, due to the fact that they can still march in the streets for whatever twisted reason they believe in and not get shot up by the National Guard PROVES this is NO POLICE STATE.

Well, until my Blood Legion of Khorne shows up to TAKE THEIR SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!

Then I would force the survivors to watch the "Bratz" movie over and over again until they break and tell me who their real backers are.

[Hollis]

WM, I think a lot of people, even though we can disagree, put ourselves in different political camps do want a better society.

We can argue and should argue on the path to get there.

We also must advocate honesty and service to one's own country over self interest.

A police state will not serve any one's purpose except who ever the despotic ruler is.

As you mention we are free, to appose each other, to argue our points, to try to prevail, BUT we are not free to enslave another, to coerce them into obedience.

I believe Most D's and R's would never support a police state, even if it was their police state.

[California Joe]

I think our freedoms are being compromised. Precedents are being set little by little. It's like they stole some pages from the Brady Bunch's gun control playbook. Whittle things down to where you can control things, use fear and intimidation to get people to fall in line. I don't believe anyone would try a massive stroke but I don't like the little infringements.

[Hollis]

I think our freedoms are being compromised. Precedents are being set little by little. It's like they stole some pages from the Brady Bunch's gun control playbook. Whittle things down to where you can control things, use fear and intimidation to get people to fall in line. I don't believe anyone would try a massive stroke but I don't like the little infringements.


CJ, that is a scary part of the current events. Really not sure where it will lead. I think the current restrictions just benefit govenrment per se, not just one group.

The dangerous aspect is if one group could position itself in complete control. I don't see that happening. Maybe it could.

Freedom is never free or secured.

[California Joe]

I agree. I think it benefits the "Powers that Be" more than any particular party or group. I do think the current administration has taken full advantage of the fear factor but really it's only because they happen to be the ones currently in power.

[Hollis]

There is kind of a Ally of common interest. Petty Bureaucrats, regardless of the nation they inhabit have a common interests in be able to exercise "control". They can view it as a positive attribute, a need for social order, or some other reasoning but it is still is based on the human need to be able to control another human.

The weakness in maintaining freedom is those members of society willing to surrender their rights to another for security or they are just to complacent to act. We are either all free or we are all enslaved. Freedom does not rest with the government but with each of our abilities to maintain and preserve the freedoms of each other.

[Kilgor]

Whatever happened to that October surprise that was going to happen in 2004 ??

[lider_r]

denial was the first form of response i was anticipating

its humorous to watch the reactionary and paranoid responses from the likes of Mr Joshua and co

Police states don't happen over night, civil rights are just whittled away bit by bit using fear as catalyst....like fear of a impending terrorist attack etc....

[WarriorMonk]

denial was the first form of response i was anticipating

its humorous to watch the reactionary and paranoid responses from the likes of Mr Joshua and co

Police states don't happen over night, civil rights are just whittled away bit by bit using fear as catalyst....like fear of a impending terrorist attack etc....

Here's the skinny, lider. You start acting more optimistic, stop saying negative sh1t about OMG police state, and OMG fascist, and OMG warmonger this and that, and OMG coporate power - and start saying stuff like:

we can do better with anti-terror efforts than blindly swinging away.
we cannot let excesses take control of our policies.

Be nicer, and you'll sway more people. Do the opposite, and you may find yourself making more enemies than friends. Same goes for 2Sheds and all the neocons here.

This moron at 1600 has only about a year to go - what more can he do now, just as long as people keep putting on pressure on him - plus the next president WILL DEFINITELY NOT be doing what the moron did for 8 years. Unless the Grand Wanking Bozo himself decides to suspend elections indefinitely for some odd reason, we'll be okay as long as people like you act nicer, and push harder, as Teddy Roosevelt said, Walk Softly, and carry a Big Gun (or was it stick?)

But if elections are suspended, and the US becomes a police state, all available able-bodied MP.net members will be forming the very first All-Online Volunteer 2009 Liberation Brigade, with our Arsenal AKs/PKMs waving high in the air, and our motto being "RUSSIA STRONG!!!!!!!!!111!1!!!!" or something or other, all wearing multicam *cough AIRSOFTPAT*...

oh wait, did you say you want to DISARM us law-abiding citizens, because, well, what chance do we have against the most powerful military on earth? Hmph, the Iraqi insurgents must be very lucky, and if you look back into our history if your snobby arse cared to, perhaps our colonists got very lucky and got the million-dollar man Washington to help out.

A shame you would disarm us and prevent the very last line of defense for freedom from ever forming.

[Roids]

I'm not worried about leaders trying to seize power because if we still all are full blooded Americans like we claim then we will rise up when the time comes.

I'm more worried about Americans stop being Americans and start liking their slavery. Like this giving away our gun rights and political correctness crap.

[lider_r]

its funny, as far as i can see the article doesnt even mention anything about guns and gun rights yet the responders are yelling 'i gotz to haff mar gurrns' already.

its the whole paranoia thing.....

as George the Messiah has already shown, elections don't need to be suspended. They just have to be run by fox news, your daddy's friends on the supreme court and some very dodgy voting machines which can be hacked. Democracy is just a word. Actions speak louder than words. Russia is a democracy, but is it democratic?

[Henry's Fork]

Alex Jones is dat you?

[deadtired]

Paranoia? Who posted the OMFG POLICE STATE!!!11!!1 Article to begin with?

[zwonder]

Yep, you're screwed.

Hear that? That's the black choppers coming for you, don't run, you'll only die tired.

[WarriorMonk]

its funny, as far as i can see the article doesnt even mention anything about guns and gun rights yet the responders are yelling 'i gotz to haff mar gurrns' already.



The "gun rights" issue is in reference to YOUR stance on citizen ownership of firearms - a police state will NEVER happen as long as the people are armed. I don't want a police state as much as you do. I very much want all of this insanity to end much like you want people like me or 2Sheds or JOSHUA either enslaved or DEAD, and even I don't agree with them at all. You have always advocated taking away the very thing that, in the end, will help us make our actions MUCH LOUDER than words.




its the whole paranoia thing.....



So who posted the OMFG POLICE STATE article? We all live in fear of something, get over it.




as George the Messiah has already shown, elections don't need to be suspended. They just have to be run by fox news, your daddy's friends on the supreme court and some very dodgy voting machines which can be hacked. Democracy is just a word. Actions speak louder than words. Russia is a democracy, but is it democratic?



More like 2 of his own friends, and his DAD was A LOT different than his bastard son as far as I can tell. And yes, we're all hoping that the voting machines are going to be fixed somehow, personally, I'd rather do it the old-fashioned way, paper ballots, just to make people understand all the tedium and blood, sweat, and tears that goes into politics, other than the scumminess.

And FOX News doesn't have much clout now, so what the hell are you worried about anyways.

As I said, the moron has only 1.5 years left - how much more sweeping damage can he do?

[vryhpyammoadded]

This creeping elimination of rights so many see as the looming totalitarian state has more to do with political theory such as the “Managerial State” and its favored beat stick “Anarcho Tyranny”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Managerial_state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Managerial_state)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Francis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Francis)

Which are all really just the hired enforcers of the Plutocracy keeping the Democrat/Republican shell game going that everyone so easily falls for.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutocracy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutocracy)

And yes, we are far from a totalitarian state but, we are sliding on a slippery slope towards it. The next step should be tossing out the remaining trappings of what once made the America a national identity, individualism, self reliance, individual empowerment and justice and going full on socialist collective nanny state because what serves the above masters best are a nation of divided, ignorant and placated entitlement addicts easily whipped into a tyrannical mob.

What’s so humorous to me is that the quickest way to slow this slide is to simply unify the national identity, take the parties away from there current factions and vote a more traditional American government back into office. Problem is we have all been suckered into this Philosophic bipolar insanity where on the one side we have traditional American independent values and the other the promise of handouts and an easy life if we give someone our money and right to make our own decision.

[WarriorMonk]

Reposted for everyone to see:


its funny, as far as i can see the article doesnt even mention anything about guns and gun rights yet the responders are yelling 'i gotz to haff mar gurrns' already.



The "gun rights" issue is in reference to YOUR stance on citizen ownership of firearms - a police state will NEVER happen as long as the people are armed. I don't want a police state as much as you do. I very much want all of this insanity to end much like you want people like me or 2Sheds or JOSHUA either enslaved or DEAD, and even I don't agree with them at all. You have always advocated taking away the very thing that, in the end, will help us make our actions MUCH LOUDER than words.




its the whole paranoia thing.....



So who posted the OMFG POLICE STATE article? We all live in fear of something, get over it.




as George the Messiah has already shown, elections don't need to be suspended. They just have to be run by fox news, your daddy's friends on the supreme court and some very dodgy voting machines which can be hacked. Democracy is just a word. Actions speak louder than words. Russia is a democracy, but is it democratic?



More like 2 of his own friends, and his DAD was A LOT different than his bastard son as far as I can tell. And yes, we're all hoping that the voting machines are going to be fixed somehow, personally, I'd rather do it the old-fashioned way, paper ballots, just to make people understand all the tedium and blood, sweat, and tears that goes into politics, other than the scumminess.

And FOX News doesn't have much clout now, so what the hell are you worried about anyways.

As I said, the moron has only 1.5 years left - how much more sweeping damage can he do?

[Mr. JOSHUA]

Why do me and 2sheds keep coming up in this thread?

More importantly, why does my name keep coming up in this thread?

If this is some prank from the off topic section, I am going to be very irritated and I personally guarantee to annoy all involved.

[WarriorMonk]

Why do me and 2sheds keep coming up in this thread?

More importantly, why does my name keep coming up in this thread?

If this is some prank from the off topic section, I am going to be very irritated and I personally guarantee to annoy all involved.

you two are prime examples (I think...) of your respective ideologies here. Unless you want me to stop, I'll keep using them. You are free to use my name to add weight to your examples concerning centrists or Third Way politics or whatnot. Think of it as a more "personal touch" to the argument.

[Mr. JOSHUA]

you two are prime examples (I think...) of your respective ideologies here. Unless you want me to stop, I'll keep using them. You are free to use my name to add weight to your examples concerning centrists or Third Way politics or whatnot. Think of it as a more "personal touch" to the argument.

I was just asking, but if you draw an insulting cartoon of me, I shall riot and burn your country down.

[Hollis]

Mr. J we need to be nice to WM, he seems to be switching sides, egads another neocon on the forums. Well everyone knows a pro-gun advocate is a neocon.

Actually I think the term "neocon" is pretty dorky. To many overly simplistic terms out there to label a person with.

BTW WM, I think most people see themselves as some sort of centralist and those who disgree some fringe element.

[lider_r]

The "gun rights" issue is in reference to YOUR stance on citizen ownership of firearms -

Which is? Perhaps you'd like to tell me seeing as you know so much about my stances..


a police state will NEVER happen as long as the people are armed. I don't want a police state as much as you do. What about countries whose citizens aren't armed to the teeth (new zealand, Britain, Australia) they don't have police states and they have actually have better records when it comes to democracy, freedom, human rights etc... Nor do they contract out internal law enforcement to 'private security companies' which have dubious records, even more dubious political connections and charge thousands of dollars per day to the taxpayer.


I very much want all of this insanity to end much like you want people like me or 2Sheds or JOSHUA either enslaved or DEAD, and even I don't agree with them at all. rofl So now i want you guys dead or enslaved? Can you provide a quote of me making those claims? sounds like more paranoia to me!


You have always advocated taking away the very thing that, in the end, will help us make our actions MUCH LOUDER than words.I have? The actions that are louder than words when it comes to guns in america are loud indeed- a similar type of loudness that can be observed while there is a school massacre taking place.


And FOX News doesn't have much clout now, so what the hell are you worried about anyways.you don't happen to work for fox news pr department do you?

'Don't worry, you can trust us. We are fair and balanced and don't have much clout amongst politicians'



As I said, the moron has only 1.5 years left - how much more sweeping damage can he do?Not very much (thanks to the voting in of politicians that actually value accountability)

[lider_r]

Actually I think the term "neocon" is pretty dorky. To many overly simplistic terms out there to label a person with.

If the shoe fits....

[Mr. JOSHUA]

Mr. J we need to be nice to WM, he seems to be switching sides, egads another neocon on the forums. Well everyone knows a pro-gun advocate is a neocon.

Actually I think the term "neocon" is pretty dorky. To many overly simplistic terms out there to label a person with.

BTW WM, I think most people see themselves as some sort of centralist and those who disgree some fringe element.

Well hello there sunshine, so nice of you to finally talk to me.

I thought firetxmi had gotten to you to. :grin:

I'm doing my best to be as nice as possible.

I was just "joshing" around with WM, I was just wondering how I became one of the central talking points over night.

He cleared it up and I gave him fair warning about depicting me in a zionist laden cartoon.

Neocon. Pffft.

If we can't say liberal anymore to describe the other side of the aisle because it too broad of a brush stroke, then the same applies with conservatives.

I believe the term neocon is used so much because the average dumbass automatically associates it with Neo-Naziism.

Very clever of the lefties.

[Hollis]

Well hello there sunshine, so nice of you to finally talk to me.

I thought firetxmi had gotten to you to. :grin:

I'm doing my best to be as nice as possible.

I was just "joshing" around with WM, I was just wondering how I became one of the central talking points over night.

He cleared it up and I gave him fair warning about depicting me in a zionist laden cartoon.

Neocon. Pffft.

If we can't say liberal anymore to describe the other side of the aisle because it too broad of a brush stroke, then the same applies with conservatives.

I believe the term neocon is used so much because the average dumbass automatically associates it with Neo-Naziism.

Very clever of the lefties.


I responded to you earlier, you know multiple color choices. Generally unless I can add something or feel the need to squeak out, I tend not to say much.

I agree with "neocon" is just another terms to get around the other terms that lost meaning over time.

It is just very easy for some to think of those who disagree with them as some robot just mouthing what ever they were told to say. About the only thing I hate to be called, is Late for Beer/dinner. I just don't care for partisan political blindness, really does not matter to much if it is from the left, central or right.

IMHO, a thinking person transends political ideologies.

[WarriorMonk]

Which is? Perhaps you'd like to tell me seeing as you know so much about my stances..

Gun Control for States and State Actors
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=110907

This looks like your saving grace:


i dont understand how pro gun folk, when the issue of safety is raised, suddenly recoil into 'your not taking my guns'

Im not even talking about banning guns, im talking putting some simple things in place which could stop things like virginia tech happening.

You think?

Why the NRA is wrong (so many gun deaths in the U.S.)
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2590825#post2590825


What about the freedom that comes with living in a community where you dont have to worry if your kids are going to get shot? Most of lifes uncertainties are out of our hands- some are choices.

All the bills of rights and shiny toys and trinkets won't make you free, it just makes you a wage slave who works to buy more things then works even more to buy even more things etc. Freedom has absolutly nothing to do with what your 'allowed' to have and everything to do with what you can be satisfied with- ideally, as little as possible.

Citizens who think they need guns are not free- they are prisoners to fear and can be manipulated easily by others who are cueing up to make megabucks from their insecurities.


its concerning to see how irrate many of the 'pro-gunners' are, people with quick tempers like that are probably not the best candidates for gun ownership i would of thought


thats because they can be representative of violence levels when those guns are stolen and used in other zones

which is a freedom that is denied to those who want the choice to live in a place where they dont have to worry about getting shot when they go to university, for example.

Taking away somebodys right to live without fear of being shot by a stolen gun has nothing to do with freedom and everything to do with the gun owners insistance that he/she must own a gun so that he/she can be satisfied.

The best way to avoid any kind of violence is to stay away from dodgy areas, dodgy people and dodgy governments whohampion laws which let those dodgy people get hold of dangerous weapons.

Of course you wouldn't admit to being scared, nobody likes to have their pride threatened. If there is nothing to fear then why feel the need to have to a gun?


I'd like to add that there is something very dodgy about grown men who log onto the internet and enjoy looking at pictures and videos of other grown men posing with guns.

Repressed desires perhaps?

Please tell me that this not quite a stretch (but of course you will.)



What about countries whose citizens aren't armed to the teeth (new zealand, Britain, Australia) they don't have police states and they have actually have better records when it comes to democracy, freedom, human rights etc... Nor do they contract out internal law enforcement to 'private security companies' which have dubious records, even more dubious political connections and charge thousands of dollars per day to the taxpayer.

Okay, I'll clarify this, I mean OUR nation WON'T become a police state as long as we're armed. OUR nation also won't become a police state if there are people who can ACTUALLY think straight (even though "straight" can be subjective at times). Different standards will apply to every country, you have to take into account the nature and mood set of the government as well as the general culture.



rofl So now i want you guys dead or enslaved? Can you provide a quote of me making those claims? sounds like more paranoia to me!

Ah, the spice on the salsa! Repressed desires of yours perhaps? Call me paranoid, go ahead, it's not like I'll go find your trailer home and burn it down after I've taken pics of my route. (tongue in cheek)



I have? The actions that are louder than words when it comes to guns in america are loud indeed- a similar type of loudness that can be observed while there is a school massacre taking place.

(see above)



you don't happen to work for fox news pr department do you?

'Don't worry, you can trust us. We are fair and balanced and don't have much clout amongst politicians'

Yippie kaye yaye motherf**ker my million dollar paycheck is here! FOX News just paid me a handsome sum to improve their PR efforts by training their newscasters to slip in subtle images that lead to mind control of viewers when they watch the newscasts!!!!!

I don't have cable.

[Mr. JOSHUA]

^burn^!!!!!!!!

[Laworkerbee]

Nice call out WM woot

[khukuri]

I think our freedoms are being compromised. Precedents are being set little by little. It's like they stole some pages from the Brady Bunch's gun control playbook. Whittle things down to where you can control things, use fear and intimidation to get people to fall in line. I don't believe anyone would try a massive stroke but I don't like the little infringements.


Completely agree, Im not the one to scream out police state, but as one who have previously lived in one I know what small details can lead to. The biggest danger is to ignore things or at least ignoring to even look at it. I also dont think some of these laws will live that long. US is to dynamic, atleast I hope.

[lider_r]

Gun Control for States and State Actors
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=110907

This looks like your saving grace:

You think?

Why the NRA is wrong (so many gun deaths in the U.S.)
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2590825#post2590825

And that can be translated to me argueing for complete disarmament of US citizens as you claim, how exactly? Ive only ever argued for gun control, not gun banning so you can desist with the lies! In none of those posts do i argue for complete disarmament of the US population.


Okay, I'll clarify this, I mean OUR nation WON'T become a police state as long as we're armed. That seems to suggest that the government has plans drawn up to enact a takeover the minute all Americans are disarmed..... that paranoia thing again.

America has never had as many guns on its streets as it has now, and democracy in America has never been as much of failure as it is now. If there is any correlation, then its the exact opposite of what you think it is.


OUR nation also won't become a police state if there are people who can ACTUALLY think straight (even though "straight" can be subjective at times). So more guns= more straight thinking?

Some of the most intelligent, influential and wise people of our time have been non-violent and rejected weaponry.

With the amount of religious lunacy and intellectual apathy in America, straight thinking is not something America is well known for these days/


Yippie kaye yaye motherf**ker my million dollar paycheck is here! FOX News just paid me a handsome sum to improve their PR efforts by training their newscasters to slip in subtle images that lead to mind control of viewers when they watch the newscasts!!!!!You must be doing it just for the love then. Or out of ignorance.

[WarriorMonk]

And that can be translated to me argueing for complete disarmament of US citizens as you claim, how exactly? Ive only ever argued for gun control, not gun banning so you can desist with the lies! In none of those posts do i argue for complete disarmament of the US population.

So how far on "control" would you go, and how would you allay the fears from the pro-gunners that you may eventually take them all?



That seems to suggest that the government has plans drawn up to enact a takeover the minute all Americans are disarmed..... that paranoia thing again.

There is also nothing wrong with being "paranoid." I guess you'd call a person who calls the cops on "suspicious activity" on a plane/at his domicile's front yard "paranoid."



America has never had as many guns on its streets as it has now, and democracy in America has never been as much of failure as it is now. If there is any correlation, then its the exact opposite of what you think it is.

Conceded.



So more guns= more straight thinking?

Some of the most intelligent, influential and wise people of our time have been non-violent and rejected weaponry.

With the amount of religious lunacy and intellectual apathy in America, straight thinking is not something America is well known for these days


More guns does not mean more straight thinking. The people I'm referring to are the ones with enough guts and willpower to work through the channels and fix stuff before the sh1t hits the fan, who would have used every available means to defuse and remedy the problem before turning violent, and use a weapon against their fellow man in the end. Notice how I've said "in the end" in a previous argument.



You must be doing it just for the love then. Or out of ignorance.

Great, you can't detect sarcasm.

[Kroforit]

What a load of BS. If you read the order, its about seizing the assets of the terrorists and those who help them, the government isn't going to go after ordinary folk walking down the street with a protest sign.
Besides, you gotta be a real numbskull to actually believe that the American people would accept a police state.

Ordinary people with signs dont do anything to stop the war. Those who are in high places and have the means to stop the war are prohibited to act against the war.

[lider_r]

So how far on "control" would you go, and how would you allay the fears from the pro-gunners that you may eventually take them all?

Stopping people from being able to purchase guns who are known to the courts for their psychiatric problems would be a good start. A register of known nutcases and religious fruitcakes could of been implemented a long time ago.


There is also nothing wrong with being "paranoid." I guess you'd call a person who calls the cops on "suspicious activity" on a plane/at his domicile's front yard "paranoid."

Theres a big difference between 'better safe than sorry' and paranoia.


More guns does not mean more straight thinking.

Hence the state of the the US.....

[lider_r]

Ordinary people with signs dont do anything to stop the war. Those who are in high places and have the means to stop the war are prohibited to act against the war.

And who controls those people in high places?

The voting public which includes ordinary people with signs.

Vietnam didn't end because the politicians wanted it to.

[WarriorMonk]

Stopping people from being able to purchase guns who are known to the courts for their psychiatric problems would be a good start. A register of known nutcases and religious fruitcakes could of been implemented a long time ago.

You haven't answered the question fully. Please continue.



Theres a big difference between 'better safe than sorry' and paranoia.

I'll get back to you on that.

[lider_r]

You haven't answered the question fully. Please continue.


Its simple: if you want to buy a gun then a cooling off period, followed by a background check showing you have no psychiatric problems or previous convictions of any sort would be a good idea. Add to this a lawful requirement that the firearm must kept in a category x type safe, that nobody else but you will be able to access it etc etc

[WarriorMonk]

Its simple: if you want to buy a gun then a cooling off period, followed by a background check showing you have no psychiatric problems or previous convictions of any sort would be a good idea. Add to this a lawful requirement that the firearm must kept in a category x type safe, that nobody else but you will be able to access it etc etc

If this is all your thoughts really are, then we are in agreement - all points are conceded. Unless you have something more to say, please do so.

[Group9]

They accepted the PATRIOT act :)

And, which exactly, of all the horrible things predicted to be spawned by the Patriot Act by the tinfoil hat crown, actually come to pass?

[Don't worry. That was a rhetorical question. We already know the answer is NONE.]