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Firetxmi
08-03-2007, 06:22 PM
Bush, Democrats deadlock on surveillance

By LARA JAKES JORDAN, Associated Press Writer 42 minutes ago

The White House and Congress were deadlocked Friday and up against a deadline to expand the government's power to eavesdrop on suspected foreign terrorists.

President Bush implored lawmakers to update a 1978 surveillance law before leaving Washington for a monthlong summer break — a potentially vulnerable time for attacks because of the high-travel season.

The president threatened to veto any bill by the Democratic-led Congress that his intelligence director deemed unable "to prevent an attack on the country."

"We've worked hard and in good faith with the Democrats to find a solution, but we are not going to put our national security at risk," Bush said after meeting with counterterror and homeland security officials at FBI headquarters. "Time is short."

Democrats said they, too, wanted to help secure the nation by passing the legislation before going on vacation — but not at the expense of crucial privacy rights.

"We're going to continue to work on it until we finish it," said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev.

The two sides struggled over two key sticking points in the update to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act: how long new powers that Bush wants should last and when the eavesdropping should be reviewed by a special court to ensure it does not improperly target Americans.

Generally, the law requires court review of government surveillance of suspected terrorists in the United States. It does not specifically address the government's ability to intercept messages believed to come from foreigners overseas — what the White House calls a significant gap in preventing attacks planned abroad.

The Bush administration began pressing for changes to the law after a recent ruling by the special FISA Court that barred the government from eavesdropping on foreign suspects whose messages were being routed through U.S. communications carriers, including Internet sites.

Democrats agree the law should not restrict U.S. spies from tapping in on foreign suspects. However, they want the FISA Court to review the eavesdropping process before it begins to make sure that Americans aren't targeted.

"There is a suspicion that the administration wants to move too boldly," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., a senior member of the Senate Intelligence Committee. "And once you sacrifice rights, it's hard to get those rights protected again."

The White House, backed by GOP lawmakers, says the urgency of detecting and deterring foreign terrorism plots precludes a court review beforehand. Instead, it would allow the government to immediately begin intercepting foreign suspects' messages, and have the FISA Court review the eavesdropping process within 90 days afterward.

That provision would be granted reluctantly.

"While I would strongly prefer not to engage in such a process, I am prepared to take these additional steps to keep the confidence of members of Congress and the American people that our processes have been subject to court review and approval," wrote National Intelligence Director Mike McConnell.

Within that three-month period, McConnell and Attorney General Alberto Gonzales would oversee the eavesdropping process, according to the White House plan. That prompted howls of protest from Democrats who distrust the attorney general to protect privacy rights.

"We need a legal framework around this program," said Rep. Jane Harman, D-Calif., a member of the House Intelligence Committee. "No more blank check for this attorney general, no more blank checks for any attorney general."

Additionally, the two sides differed on how long the new law should be in effect. Several Democrats, not wanting to rush though a complicated law, said it should expire after three months. Republicans embraced McConnell's offer of six.

Missouri Sen. Kit Bond, senior Republican on the Intelligence Committee, indicated the GOP would not budge from that last offer by the White House. McConnell "has put on the table this last, best offer," Bond said.

The impasse highlighted tensions between the Bush administration and Democrats in charge of Congress in grappling with the delicate balance between protecting Americans and preserving their rights.

"The White House has a certain approach to it, maybe trying to get more," said Sen. Ben Nelson, D-Neb. "And I think the civil libertarian approach is to make sure you don't give away the store when it comes to the rights of American citizens."

Link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070803/ap_on_go_pr_wh/terrorism_surveillance

ElHombre
08-04-2007, 03:00 PM
Dear Congressional Dems,

It's easy. Real easy. Anytime the Bush admin asks for more power, the answer is no. When the WH and Rs start their hypocritical screaming (Alberto Gonzales in charge?!?), tell them all to f*** off. Repeat.

SOG
08-04-2007, 07:35 PM
but pelossi wants to work with bush. she even said so rofl if both our parties take that attitude then..... nothing gets done. great.

BugHunt
08-05-2007, 03:43 PM
Dear Congressional Dems,

It's easy. Real easy. Anytime the Bush admin asks for more power, the answer is no. When the WH and Rs start their hypocritical screaming (Alberto Gonzales in charge?!?), tell them all to f*** off. Repeat.

With a attitude like that Ossama or the Iranians will get you in your bed one night!

Or failing that the feds will kick down your door and confiscate your home ;)

Mailman
08-05-2007, 04:55 PM
Dear Congressional Dems,

It's easy. Real easy. Anytime the Bush admin asks for more power, the answer is no. When the WH and Rs start their hypocritical screaming (Alberto Gonzales in charge?!?), tell them all to f*** off. Repeat.

This pretty much well sums up the entire "anti-bush" campaign. You most beat him at any cost eh, even if that means losing in Iraq! But as long as you beat Bush then who cares?

Mailman

Lt-Col A. Tack
08-05-2007, 07:37 PM
Update

Believe what you want to believe, but this is good news Ladies and Gentlemen.
They finally did the right thing.



In a win for Bush, House approves warrantless-wiretapping expansion (http://www.azstarnet.com/news/195033)

The Associated Press
Tucson, Arizona | Published: 08.05.2007

WASHINGTON

The House handed President Bush a victory Saturday, voting to expand the government's abilities to eavesdrop without warrants on foreign suspects whose communications pass through the United States.

The 227-183 vote, which followed the Senate's approval Friday, sends the bill to Bush for his signature. He had urged Congress to approve it, saying Saturday, "Protecting America is our most solemn obligation."

The administration said the measure is needed to speed the National Security Agency's ability to intercept phone calls, e-mails and other communications involving foreign nationals "reasonably believed to be outside the United States."

Civil liberties groups and many Democrats said it goes too far, possibly enabling the government to wiretap U.S. residents communicating with overseas parties without adequate oversight from courts or Congress.

The bill updates the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, known as FISA. It gives the government leeway to intercept, without warrants, communications between foreigners that are routed through equipment in United States, provided that "foreign intelligence information" is at stake.

Bush describes the effort as an anti-terrorist program, but the bill is not limited to terrorism suspects and could have wider applications, some lawmakers said.

The government long has had substantial powers to intercept purely foreign communications that don't touch U.S. soil.

If a U.S. resident becomes the chief target of surveillance, the government would have to obtain a warrant from the special FISA court.

Congressional Democrats won a few concessions in negotiations earlier in the week. New wiretaps must be approved by the director of national intelligence and the attorney general, not just the attorney general. Congress has battled with Attorney General Alberto Gonzales on several issues, and some Democrats have accused him of perjury.

The new law also will expire in six months unless Congress renews it. The administration wanted the changes to be permanent.

Many congressional Democrats wanted tighter restrictions on government surveillance, but yielded in the face of Bush's veto threats and the impending August recess.

The administration began pressing for changes to the law after a recent ruling by the FISA court. That decision barred the government from eavesdropping without warrants on foreign suspects whose messages were being routed through U.S. communications carriers, including Internet sites.

Hollis
08-05-2007, 07:45 PM
Bush 1.......... D's 0.

Lt-Col A. Tack
08-05-2007, 08:15 PM
Bush 1.......... D's 0.

I'm just glad it got done.

They can have another show in 6 months.

AlterMega
08-05-2007, 08:46 PM
saw this on C-Span last night.You could hear the Republicans(all the sensible people for that matter)cheering after it was passed.Good news!

ElHombre
08-06-2007, 12:25 AM
saw this on C-Span last night.You could hear the Republicans(all the sensible people for that matter)cheering after it was passed.Good news!

Until a Dem moves into the WH. At which time the Rs will suddenly have a massive overriding concern about Americans having their privacy invaded by Big Brother. Keeerist... :roll:

Mailman
08-07-2007, 02:30 PM
Actually I would think the Dems will suddenly change their tune and sing a song called "damn, we gotta protect our citizens now" and leave the legislation in place.

Mailman

LMAV
08-07-2007, 03:07 PM
Until a Dem moves into the WH. At which time the Rs will suddenly have a massive overriding concern about Americans having their privacy invaded by Big Brother. Keeerist... :roll:

They will be too busy trying to censor talk radio and forcing radio stations to carry their message.

Mr. JOSHUA
08-07-2007, 03:16 PM
"There is a suspicion that the administration wants to move too boldly," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., a senior member of the Senate Intelligence Committee. "And once you sacrifice rights, it's hard to get those rights protected again."


Ah, but Mrs. Feinstein, once a terrorist attack has taken place, its hard to get the people who were killed to come back to life and the damaged infrastructure up and running.