Finnish Civil War veteran at 110

[Mangrove]

Aarne Arvonen is the one of two living Finnish Civil War veteran (the other is Lennart Rönnbäck who was born in 1905). He is celebrating his 110th birthday today on the 4th August. He is the fourth oldest person in Europe and tenth oldest in the whole world.

He worked at the Krepost Sveaborg (fortification of Helsinki) during 1914-1917. Finland was then the Grand Duchy of Russia and one of the main bases of the Russian Baltic Fleet was Helsinki. Russia feared that Germany would attack through Finland to St. Petersburg so they constructed 40 km long fortress around city of Helsinki.

When the Finnish Civil War began in January 1918 he joined to the Finnish Red Guards because lack of work. The Red Guards lost the war and Arvonen was convicted to prison because of treason against the true goverment of Finland (the White Guard). However the sentence was tentative and he was released at the very same day.

He has two daughters and lives at home. He is only 160 centimeters (5' 3") tall but when he celebrated his 80th birthday his state of being was as good as ordinary 20 years old man.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aarne_Arvonen

[fin0084]

Only thing I can say from my heart is that his a traitor.
But one thing I have to do is to congratulate Him for his long age.
Thank god his side didnt win or I wouldnt have all these changes that I have now

[Basillicus]

Only thing I can say from my heart is that his a traitor.

Bah, things weren't so black and white (or "red and white") then as we might want to imagine. And he was a "traitor" to a country that barely existed in the first place.

Anyways it makes me humble to think the things he has whitnessed. When you are reading history books you might forget that there are still people alive that have actually seen these things to happen even if it feels it was ages ago.

[nemowork]

He has two daughters and lives at home. He is only 160 centimeters (5' 3") tall but when he celebrated his 80th birthday his state of being was as good as ordinary 20 years old man.

Wasnt Sim Hayha about 5'2"? I feel too tall to live long:)

We lost Richard Annand this year, prize these guys as living history, listen and record every detail.

[Basillicus]

I think most of the longest living people are relatively short, don't know why.

[Mangrove]

I think most of the longest living people are relatively short, don't know why.

How tall you are depends how healthy you are (and how tall your parents are). Many of those old people may have suffered from food shortages during their early life and so they didn't grew so tall.

[Elmo]

Only thing I can say from my heart is that his a traitor.


Absolutely brilliant! Why don't you take that little head of yours out of your ass, educate yourself about the civil war, try putting things into a context, think a bit and then, maybe, pass judgement.

This cracks me up: "...say from my heart...traitor".

[Esko]

I have seen him several times (I live in a nearby city), Arska is local celebrity in Järvenpää due to his old age and good condition, nowadays he's not hearing as well as he used to and his eyes are nearly blind. But still he can be found at local pub, even he's 110th birthday party was held at the pub.

[+stirling+]

If i remember right, he fight against red army in winter war(1939-1940) and continue war(1941-1944)? Well quote from vainö linna´s unknown soldier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unknown_Soldier_%28novel%29)
"Why do you fight?" "We defence our homeland, parents and our independence" "Well my father is dead, my mother is old whore, i have ever own any peace of this homeland and i don´t care our independence" Well the person who is speaking in that moment is this novel´s communist, but he fights as good as everybody ellse. So, he(Aarne Arvonen) aint "Traitor", he fight against the communism, as good as those who where on the white side in civil war. If you wan´t to call someone a "Traitor" call those people who escaped from finland to sovjet union, during the civil war and after that. All thought allmoust all of them were killed by Stalin, in the early ´30.

[Hecatonchiros]

Saw some pictures of him in some magazine just now. Guy got his first tattoos back when Finland was still part of the Russian Empire. They're pretty much unrecognizable now.

[Mangrove]

If i remember right, he fight against red army in winter war(1939-1940) and continue war(1941-1944)?

He was obligated to work during the Winter and Continuation Wars.

http://www.turunsanomat.fi/ajassa/?ts=1,3:1007:0:0,4:7:0:1:2007-08-03,104:7:476156,1:0:0:0:0:0:


Talvi- tai jatkosotaan Arvonen ei joutunut, vaan hän palveli työvelvollisena.

[Recon FO]

Absolutely brilliant! Why don't you take that little head of yours out of your ass, educate yourself about the civil war, try putting things into a context, think a bit and then, maybe, pass judgement.

This cracks me up: "...say from my heart...traitor".


He was over dramatic. But legally he was a traitor, rebellion against the legal goverment, hence the punishment. We don know about his motives more but it seems he was a volunteer, not forced to join.

[fin0084]

Yeah I was little bit to harsh about first.
It would be actually very interesting to hear about his experiences and his life. So many things have happened in 110 years.
I have always respected older people , red guard thing only made overreact(maybe alcohol had something to do that).
I bet hi have been very contructive member of society.

[PEMM]

Bah, things weren't so black and white (or "red and white") then as we might want to imagine. And he was a "traitor" to a country that barely existed in the first place.


Also that time there werent any big war crimes made by commies, these guys really believed that socialism would make this land better, so i myself respect them even thought im really happy that they didnt win. After the war they actually got quite many of those reforms they wanted.

And btw: "Punakaartilaistaustansa vuoksi Arvosen oli etsittävä työtä eri puolilta Suomea. Punakaartin jäsenyys ja siitä seurannut vankeus olivat niin rankkoja kokemuksia, että sen koommin Aarne ei suostunut jäseneksi edes ammattiliittoihin, saatikka vasemmistopuolueisiin."

[KZ_Finland]

Thank you Stirling. How considerate of you.

I wonder what kind of treason was it to move to USSR in hopes of better future before the winter war even happened?. So by your defenition Finnish people who at this moment live abroad are infact traitors?

[OldRecon]

Thank you Stirling. How considerate of you.

I wonder what kind of treason was it to move to USSR in hopes of better future before the winter war even happened?. So by your defenition Finnish people who at this moment live abroad are infact traitors?

I guess it's the winning side who decides what's treason and what's not.

On the one side the core/cadre of the "White" forces were made up of Finnish nationalists, who during WW-1 had fled to Germany to volunteer for service in a jaeger battalion staffed with exiled Finns, with the hope of learning the neccessary military skills there to help ending Russian rule over Finland.
In the initial phase weapons smuggled to Finland from Germany also played an important part in the "White" forces.
The white forces were initialy also aided directly by German forces led by Gen. Rüdiger von der Goltz (of later Freikorps fame).
Besides the German aid Swedish officers "of conservative political dispsition", working on a voluntary basis, also played an important part as military advisors to the emerging "White" forces.

On the other hand there were serious fears that if the "Reds" had won the civil war (and personaly I think the fears were well founded), the "Red" leadership would forsake Finlands independence for becoming part of the Bolshevik Soviet union.
Needles to say the "red" side in the conflict also enjoyed material and advisory support from the Soviet bolsheviks and Russian soldiers still stationed in Finland at the start of the civil war.

[Recon FO]

Thank you Stirling. How considerate of you.

I wonder what kind of treason was it to move to USSR in hopes of better future before the winter war even happened?. So by your defenition Finnish people who at this moment live abroad are infact traitors?

I would also consider as traitors only those that worked to bring Finland under communism.

[KZ_Finland]

First of all i want to state that i agree with PEMM and Recon that it worked out for the better with the victory of the whites.

I take this whole deal by sterling bit more seriously and personal considering that i myself come from one of SSR republics on grounds of right of return as my grand grandparents moved to Soviet Union in hopes of better future and we're shot during the purges. Leaving my grandmother as an orphan girl in non other place than Soviet Union during Stalins rule.

I don't consider these people traitors as of that time when they moved and country to witch they moved was not at war with Finland. Neather did they know what awaited them as soviet propaganda network told wonderful stories to people considering immigration while keeping the grim reality inside own borders.

Recon FO: As i've heard from teachers and oldies that even during 80's a lot of finns we're sentimental towords SU.

[Recon FO]

First of all i want to state that i agree with PEMM and Recon that it worked out for the better with the victory of the whites.

I take this whole deal by sterling bit more seriously and personal considering that i myself come from one of SSR republics on grounds of right of return as my grand grandparents moved to Soviet Union in hopes of better future and we're shot during the purges. Leaving my grandmother as an orphan girl in non other place than Soviet Union during Stalins rule.

I don't consider these people traitors as of that time when they moved and country to witch they moved was not at war with Finland. Neather did they know what awaited them as soviet propaganda network told wonderful stories to people considering immigration while keeping the grim reality inside own borders.

Recon FO: As i've heard from teachers and oldies that even during 80's a lot of finns we're sentimental towords SU.

Some yes, but even the Finnish communist were divided on their wiews on USSR. First division of the left was after the Independence war between social democrats and communists inside the Social Democratic party. Then Winter War opened the eyes of some communists. The remaining ones were hard core Stalinists living in Finland and USSR and working to overthrow the legal goverment untill the the end of USSR.

[+stirling+]

Thank you Stirling. How considerate of you.

I wonder what kind of treason was it to move to USSR in hopes of better future before the winter war even happened?. So by your defenition Finnish people who at this moment live abroad are infact traitors?
I think that no one is traitor! "If you wan´t to call someone a "Traitor"...". If someone like´s to live in foreign country, makes people traitor of the motherland? I think not. And btw, fighting in the front line or making thinks in war time are IMO bouth fight for the country, somebody does it with guns and somebody other makes thing working, so soldiers get weapons and ammunitions. Or just does something other...

[Wall]

I have seen him several times (I live in a nearby city), Arska is local celebrity in Järvenpää due to his old age and good condition, nowadays he's not hearing as well as he used to and his eyes are nearly blind. But still he can be found at local pub, even he's 110th birthday party was held at the pub.

Yes, if i remember right, pub is McArthur. Pub give pub-tour/journey to England as 100 year birthday gift.

[pacifist]

Only thing I can say from my heart is that his a traitor.

:roll:

It was a civil war.

According to your logic half of the finnish population were traitors.

[IronFinn]

:roll:

It was a civil war.

According to your logic half of the finnish population were traitors.

More like one third if you look at the support this faction received. Taking part in civil war doesn´t make one traitor, only if you loose. But if the objective of reds was to merge Finland with SU then he was/is a traitor.

[Mangrove]

Two interviews in Finnish.

http://www.yle.fi/elavaarkisto/?s=s&g=1&ag=4&t=573&a=5007

[Mangrove]

The last Finnish Civil War veteran Aarne Arvonen died on 1st January 2009. The news was published today. Arvonen lived for 111 years, 4 months and 29 days or 40 693 days.

http://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/artikkeli/Suomen+viimeinen+1800-luvulla+syntynyt+kuoli/1135242787027 (in Finnish)

[domokun]

Rest In Peace.

[Anomander]

RIP. Totally unrelated, but i find it somewhat disturbing that some people doesn't know what year of independence or anything related to the civil war. Like the Miss Suomi 2007 who thought Finland got independence in 1952:roll:

As often said, freedom isn't free.