Solidarity runs dry in Poland

[Smersh]

Solidarity runs dry in Poland
By Nick Thorpe
BBC News, Poland


The famous Gdansk shipyard in Poland has been given an ultimatum by the European Commission: cut back or close down. Poland stands accused of breaching rules on state subsidies, designed to ensure fair competition.

"This shipyard is like a mother to us," Lech Walesa tells me. "Do you liquidate your own mother?"

He does not say kill, or strangle, or murder. He says liquidate.
The man who founded the independent Solidarity trade union in Gdansk in 1980 - and later became president of Poland - now sits in a spacious office, in one of the ancient gates which guard the old city. His famous moustache is as white today as the eagle on the Polish flag.
Symbols of Solidarity

A 15-minute walk away, Gate Two of the shipyard still reminds me of the grainy newspaper photographs from 1980, when a somewhat slimmer Lech Walesa scaled it to confront the management with a strike that turned into a revolution. The shape of the railings. The tall poplars growing behind them.

No doubt the workers apologised to visiting journalists then too, about their humble lavatory in the guardroom.

But the symbols of Solidarity have grown up all around. The monument to the Trade Union - three tall crosses, adorned with anchors. A museum dedicated to Solidarity, and all who have drawn inspiration from her struggle, called Roads to Freedom.

With a superhuman effort to control his anger, Solidarity trade union leader Karol Guzikiewicz speaks into my microphone, as though he is addressing a vast crowd at the gates.
"I would like to take the opportunity of this interview, with an organisation which is listened to all over the world, to invite the officials at the European Union who will decide our fate, to come here and see every stone, every piece of ground first. To see what we have done, and what we plan to achieve," he says.

Karol was a young worker here when Solidarity was founded. He rose through the movement to become a seasoned union activist, a worker participating in the workers' defeat of a workers' state.
EU ultimatum

We sit in his car for a whirlwind tour of the shipyard. The news of the EU ultimatum hangs more heavily than a giant crane overhead.
He drives fast and furiously through the crumbling industrial landscape - over the cobbles, the old rail tracks, the broken Tarmac - and reverses into a large rubbish bin. It topples over, but Karol single-handedly heaves it back onto its wheels.

This may be a scene of desolation, but there is no litter.
By the gate, an elderly lady carries away a poplar branch which has fallen in the wind. White clouds scud across a sky of Baltic blue. A sun, which is torturing countries further south, is gentler on the skin here. Seagulls wheel and cry news of the Brussels ultimatum like newsboys when war breaks out.

We arrive at the slipways, the main battlefield with the European Commission. Only three still operate, leased today from a Danish owner, until 2010. Brussels is demanding that they close two immediately, leaving only one.

Karol breathes heavily. "Do these people not realise," he asks, "that you cannot build a ship with only one slipway? You have to have two."
Property speculators

In distant Brussels, the European Commission spokesman on competition issues, Jonathan Todd, insists that Gdansk has been given "a last chance". It has until 21 August to comply.
Two-thirds of the land here has already been sold to developers. The shipyard says this has not been taken into account in the bureaucrats' calculations.

The European Commission, the workers mutter darkly, stands on the side of property speculators, who want the remaining land as well - and no rump shipyard on their expensive doorsteps.
The shipyard stands right on the edge of the old city. The developers plan smart flats here, on the shore of the Motlawa canal, and a yacht marina where the old slipways used to stand.
The management, for once, is with the workers.
"We have orders for new ships," insists Andrzej Jaworski, the general manager.

"Container vessels for Germany, research ships for Norway, vessels to transport liquid gas. And we have investors. The European Commission should be helping European yards compete with the yards of Asia, not closing us down."

The ownership of Polish shipyards is devilishly complicated. Since the return of capitalism, they have been subsidised, sold and splintered. Now the European Commission has accepted restructuring plans put forward by other Polish yards in Gdynia and Szczecin, but rejected that put forward by Gdansk.

If no new plan is put forward by the deadline, it will have to pay back £35m ($70m) in state aid, insists the Commission. Money which Gdansk claims it never received. It went to the others.

How can a union defend its members in the 21st Century?

"If necessary," says Karol, "we will go to Strasbourg. And tear down the masts, the flagpoles we gave as a gift to the European Parliament when Poland joined the European Union. But I hope it won't come to that."

Welcome to capitalism.

[Friendofall]

That is one of the major reasons why many Polish companies now perfer to work with American investors and companies and thats also part of the reason I think the Poles and the rest of the eastern European nations should pull out of the EU and form their own trade aliance and just ditch the dying economies of western Europe the EU is holding back the potential of eastern nations so they can continue to keep their opressive socialist regimes in power............EU is almost as bad as NAFTA and nearly as exploitative. Its almost like the western Europeans want to build a pan-European state kinda scary violating the sovereignty of other nations for their own gain their just as bad as the Americans, Chinese, Indians, or Russians. Oh and communism and more socialism are no answer to the problems either they just make things worse.

[joka]

That is one of the major reasons why many Polish companies now perfer to work with American investors and companies

What, American companies operating in the EU aren't subject to the same rules? Do you have some statistics on this by the way, how "many" are we talking about here?



and thats also part of the reason I think the Poles and the rest of the eastern European nations should pull out of the EU and form their own trade aliance and just ditch the dying economies of western Europe the EU is holding back the potential of eastern nations so they can continue to keep their opressive socialist regimes in power............EU is almost as bad as NAFTA and nearly as exploitative. Its almost like the western Europeans want to build a pan-European state kinda scary violating the sovereignty of other nations for their own gain their just as bad as the Americans, Chinese, Indians, or Russians. Oh and communism and more socialism are no answer to the problems either they just make things worse.

Divide and conquer eh, exploit underlying sentiments and pit west against east. Not bad. How would anyone except people outside Europe benefit from such a rift?

[Switek]

Welcome to capitalism.

No, you're wrong. Welcome to the tyranny of the red tape.
;)

[joka]

No, you're wrong. Welcome to the tyranny of the red tape.
;)

The Commission is tasked by the member-state governments to uphold rules that we have commonly agreed on. Don't you think the EU would be facing an even bigger excrement-storm if it upheld rules at random?

Besides, this article, like so many others about "EU bureaucracy", are written in middle of events before the outcome is clear, when the final decision isn't yet made. Somehow I don't think we'll be reading a follow up article titled "it seem the author jumped the gun" "the outcome wasn't as bad as predicted"
Last time I checked church organs are still being made, wolves can still be hunted, wooden boats can still be built, sports cars can still be produced and I won't be the least bit surprised if some sort of compromise is found for this situation as well.

[Kaapeli]

Oh noes. Our conspiracy to drag the prosperous East Europe down with us to communist socialist oppression and poverty has been uncovered.

[Freibier]

That is one of the major reasons why many Polish companies now perfer to work with American investors and companies and thats also part of the reason I think the Poles and the rest of the eastern European nations should pull out of the EU and form their own trade aliance and just ditch the dying economies of western Europe the EU is holding back the potential of eastern nations so they can continue to keep their opressive socialist regimes in power............EU is almost as bad as NAFTA and nearly as exploitative. Its almost like the western Europeans want to build a pan-European state kinda scary violating the sovereignty of other nations for their own gain their just as bad as the Americans, Chinese, Indians, or Russians. Oh and communism and more socialism are no answer to the problems either they just make things worse.
/points and laughs

[Friendofall]

Provide me with adequate information that my views are false and I will accept that my views are in fact inaccurate and unfounded.

[perdurabo]

That is one of the major reasons why many Polish companies now perfer to work with American investors and companies and thats also part of the reason I think the Poles and the rest of the eastern European nations should pull out of the EU and form their own trade aliance and just ditch the dying economies of western Europe the EU is holding back the potential of eastern nations so they can continue to keep their opressive socialist regimes in power............EU is almost as bad as NAFTA and nearly as exploitative. Its almost like the western Europeans want to build a pan-European state kinda scary violating the sovereignty of other nations for their own gain their just as bad as the Americans, Chinese, Indians, or Russians. Oh and communism and more socialism are no answer to the problems either they just make things worse.
roflroflrofl
dude with all due respect lay off the crack pipe
almoust all our recent economical grow is thanks to our joining to EU. Moust of our companies work with european counterparts not american, there is even more irish or spanish investments than yank ones.
If this shipyard can't worki in free market conditions it should die, other way it will suck out money from companies thet are healthy.

[Friendofall]

Like I said I stand proven wrong and I would be most obliged if anyone could provide me with information with which I could correct and modify my clearly inaccurate and unimformed views because I really do want to be more informed about what is actually going on in the world and not wander blindly in my own apparently ignorant world.....I was not aware I was so grossly misinformed.

[Smersh]

No, you're wrong. Welcome to the tyranny of the red tape.
;)
It is a capitalistic situation. If an industry is internationally uncompetitive, then market forces will ensure that it either reforms itself (by shedding jobs and restructuring its operations) or it will go bankrupt. For the state to subsidise it merely reinforces inefficient and uncompetitive practices. Once you accept the reality of the international capitalist system, the end of these state subsidies, and the loss of jobs and eventual closing of the shipyards, becomes inevitable. This is what the Polish workers were effectively calling for when they embraced capitalism and the EU. A very sad historical irony for the birth place of Soldarity.

[Switek]

'Actually, it is a capitalistic issue. If an industry is internationally uncompetitive, then market forces will ensure that it either reforms itself (by shedding jobs and restructuring its operations) or it will go bankrupt. For the state to subsidise it merely reinforces inefficient and uncompetitive practices, and is a form of socialism. Once you accept the reality of global capitalism, the end of these state subsidies, and the loss of jobs and eventual closing of the shipyards, becomes inevitable. This is what the Polish workers were effectively calling for when they embraced capitalism and the EU.'


In this case I belive in free market only in US, what is completly different than those in EU... pity :-(

[Mishka Zubov]

It is a capitalistic situation. If an industry is internationally uncompetitive, then market forces will ensure that it either reforms itself (by shedding jobs and restructuring its operations) or it will go bankrupt.

Some governments bail important companies out of bankruptcy. They always later say that they regret it but they still do it for variety of reasons. Take Ontario Hydro, Bombardier and many other companies in Canada.
It all depends on a political will - unfortunately there is none in this case since the EU bureaucracy rules here. Switek is right.

What I hate in all of this are the f**king developers behind all of this, smelling huge revenues. Big capital, hard to fight them. I've seen it many times when the local governments have been subjugated by developers for no other reason but simply money.

[shadowsrider]

roflroflrofl
dude with all due respect lay off the crack pipe
almoust all our recent economical grow is thanks to our joining to EU. Moust of our companies work with european counterparts not american, there is even more irish or spanish investments than yank ones.
If this shipyard can't worki in free market conditions it should die, other way it will suck out money from companies thet are healthy.

You are wrong, economists say that about 1% of our last year 7% growth is thanks to EU. Anyway I've got another argument: Poland receives more money than it pays to EU. Also you cannot spend such money on bull**** but it must be well documented program which is good tool for using money with sense.
So the argument about sucking vital resources is completly invalid.
Additionally while EU is quite socialistic comparing to USA, Poland had the communist luggage of postcommunist mentality, trade unions, lots of regulations. EU forces the government to keep budget discipline and free some market areas.
If Poland weren't in EU Kaczynski brothers would make a distaster with gigantic spending for social branches or other strange moves, thanks to EU they are in harness.

Anyway while Solidarity is a symbol I feel no pity for them. Strong trade unions are disaster for economy.

[Friendofall]

Ok I'm confused I've been reading on economic growth in Poland and I keep getting mixed messages from both sides will an actual Pole please tell how the economy is doing and who is investing in Polish companies?

[Musashi]

Ok I'm confused I've been reading on economic growth in Poland and I keep getting mixed messages from both sides will an actual Pole please tell how the economy is doing and who is investing in Polish companies?
The current economic growth is above 5% a year (the expected economic growth is 6.2% in this year) and the biggest investors in Poland are:
1. The French
2. The Germans

After that I don't know the correnct order, but the major investors are also:
The Dutchmen
The Italians
The Britons

List of Major Foreign Investors in Poland by country of origin of the capital in 2006, with comment (a PDF file):
http://www.paiz.gov.pl/files/?id_plik=8721

An interesting webpage:
http://www.paiz.gov.pl/index/?id=4c56ff4ce4aaf9573aa5dff913df997a

[daily666]

The shipyards should have been closed years ago in the first place. Thanks to unions and stupid govts it wasn't. Now we've been loosing our money to support a dead "corporate" body. Level the place and build a business and apartament district over there.

There's already a project for that area:

http://www.mlodemiasto.pl/en/space/index.htm

[seer]

The shipyards should have been closed years ago in the first place. Thanks to unions and stupid govts it wasn't. Now we've been loosing our money to support a dead "corporate" body. Level the place and build a business and apartament district over there.

There's already a project for that area:

http://www.mlodemiasto.pl/en/space/index.htm

Yes ships should be build in Germany, GB, France, US, South Korea China and other countries. Poland should exit that field all together and become a pure consumer. To hell with production, others can do it cheaper and better. p-)

BTW. Why waste money on another 'dead corporate body'? Why not just plant potatoes there? It will be way easier on the taxpayer. p-)

[Mishka Zubov]

The shipyards should have been closed years ago in the first place. Thanks to unions and stupid govts it wasn't. Now we've been loosing our money to support a dead "corporate" body. Level the place and build a business and apartament district over there.

There's already a project for that area:

http://www.mlodemiasto.pl/en/space/index.htm

If this is what you want - that's OK with me. I do not live there. :-)

But as I wrote before - I am always highly suspicious anytime I hear a word "developer". Your link makes it clear who is hiding behind the BPT Optima and I do not have any doubts whatsoever that they have one and only one motivation for pushing EU for this ultimatum: money, and a lots of it. For themselves, not for you. Period.

It should be you who owes that area. But you are not. This place must have been acquired for peanuts. In other words: sold stupidly cheap. I have a feeling that it was much better deal than Louisiana and Alaska taken together. I have no proof, no data, but just a guts feeling - based on what I have seen here, where I live.

Just north of here is a beautiful area called "Oak Ridges Moraine" - a hilly region, providing clean water resources to the City. Nice place for hiking too. Much has been written about it how it should be protected. Green movement was very vocal, city and provincial governments were engaged, and even developers were playing a "nice guys" card. Then the deal was struck with developers who already had some stakes in that area: leave it alone and we will give you in return some land somewhere else. Angels trumpets were playing, everybody was happy! A so-called "land swap deal".

I used to drive to work from there every day. One day a heavy equipment appeared. Then there were demonstrations and all sort of noise in newspapers. Then a police. Few weeks later huge areas of desert appeared on both sides the main road going south. And I mean - huge! With wind blowing you could hear the sand grains bombarding side windows of your car.

Somehow the deal has been reverted to a much better deal for developers.
Money talks!

[shadowsrider]

Yes ships should be build in Germany, GB, France, US, South Korea China and other countries. Poland should exit that field all together and become a pure consumer. To hell with production, others can do it cheaper and better. p-)

BTW. Why waste money on another 'dead corporate body'? Why not just plant potatoes there? It will be way easier on the taxpayer. p-)

You definitelly do not know how the world is running, perhaps that is why you've got Kaczynski as your avatar. Szczecinska shipyard is doing very well on international market and is profitable. Supported by government and run by gov clerks Gdanska is a money pitfall.
Why?
Maybe start with Adam Smith

[daily666]

You definitelly do not know how the world is running, perhaps that is why you've got Kaczynski as your avatar. Szczecinska shipyard is doing very well on international market and is profitable. Supported by government and run by gov clerks Gdanska is a money pitfall.
Why?
Maybe start with Adam Smith

Or close the thing down if it cannot keep up on it's own.

[daily666]

Yes ships should be build in Germany, GB, France, US, South Korea China and other countries. Poland should exit that field all together and become a pure consumer. To hell with production, others can do it cheaper and better. p-)

BTW. Why waste money on another 'dead corporate body'? Why not just plant potatoes there? It will be way easier on the taxpayer. p-)

I don't want my taxmoney to be invested into something that's not been profitable for the last 15 years or so. Ships are built in Poland by Shipyards who can do it on their own. If the govt. is so keen to help the Shipyards why it doesn't help all the other factories? Help all or help none.

If I'd manage my company badly will the government help me out and subsidize me? No! It's my risk and my money I loose.

[seer]

You definitelly do not know how the world is running, perhaps that is why you've got Kaczynski as your avatar. Szczecinska shipyard is doing very well on international market and is profitable. Supported by government and run by gov clerks Gdanska is a money pitfall.
Why?
Maybe start with Adam Smith

As far as I can remember Szczecinska shipyard was bankrupt a few years ago and if it was not for the gov. it would not be there anymore along with a few other factories. Szczecinska will be profitable until her next bankruptcy.

Adam Smith? You need an even playing field to apply his principles. The world shipyard industry is heavily subsidized and few shipyards are profitable. Is it a problem that needs to be fixed? Yes. But to suggest that we should get rid of the shipyards (and know how at the same time) all together is ludicrous.

I have a feeling you are still very young and idealistic but thanks for the tip.

[seer]

.... If the govt. is so keen to help the Shipyards why it doesn't help all the other factories? Help all or help none.

If I'd manage my company badly will the government help me out and subsidize me? No! It's my risk and my money I loose.

I guess you are not as strategically important.

[Switek]

As far as I can remember Szczecinska shipyard was bankrupt a few years ago and if it was not for the gov. it would not be there anymore along with a few other factories. Szczecinska will be profitable until her next bankruptcy.

Another time period another laws, mate...

[daily666]

I guess you are not as strategically important.

Me? Strategically? Go and check what that word stand for beacause by all means Gdansk shipyard isn't a strategic company.

[Mishka Zubov]

ISD seeks total ownership of Poland’s famous shipyard

Created: Thursday, September 6. 2007

A company which has Ukrainian majority ownership has put in an offer to save the historic Gdansk Shipyard at a price higher than face value - and has plans to retain production capacity higher than the European Union is demanding.

“ISD Polska, whose majority owner is the Ukrainian Donbas, has placed a binding offer of purchasing newly offered shares of the Gdańsk Shipyard (SG) for 400 million zloty,” Andrzej Jaworski, the yard’s President of the Board, said in a statement, Wednesday.

Jaworski explained that ISD Polska wants to buy out the rest of the Gdansk Shipyard’s shares, whose owners now include the Industrial Development Agency (ARP), Gdynia Shipyard and FTE Cenzin.

If the ARP and the companies agreed to sell, the Ukrainians could become the 100% owner of the Gdańsk Shipyard.

“ISD Polska wants to buy the shares for more than their face value, which means an expenditure of at least 125 million zloty,” Jaworski told the PAP agency, and added that the Ukrainian offer includes a “very favourable” social package for the staff.

According to him, however, the Ukrainians also announced that they are not planning to scale down the shipyard’s productivity, which is demanded by the European Commission.

The EC has demanded that Gdansk close two of its three slipways in a move to cut costs and increase profitability.

The Polish government and the current shipyard owners have argued that only one slipway to be closed.

The EC has threatened to take back aid it gave Gdansk if it does not comply with its wishes.

Jaworski said that ISD Polska disagrees with the European Commission and is ready to repay the public aid, which, according to the management of the shipyard, amounted to 36 million zloty. The European Commission on the other hand, estimates that iy amounted to around 190 million.

The Gdańsk Shipyard is waiting for privatization offers till 7 November.
source: http://www.thenews.pl/archives/1146-ISD-seeks-total-ownership-of-Polands-famous-shipyard.html