Does a 9mm sniper rifle exist?

[LordHalbert]

Does a 9mm sniper rifle exist?

I've never heard of a sniper rifle using a 9mm round - just wondering.

[M_trace1187]

This is ridiculous. The ranges snipers operate at are much too far for a 9mm.

[Aerosoul]

I guess there are some just because...

[guest]

Man.. show some imagination

9mil supah snipah iz soo gangsta

[California Joe]

I know the Israelis and the US SEAL teams (Vietnam) used suppressed and subsonic .22s occasionally to reach out and touch sentries etc on clandestined ops. Ruger 10/22s mostly if I remember correctly. They may have experimented with the 9mm round for the same reasons....Obviously we're talking about shorter distances than real sniper rifles....

[Aerosoul]

9mil supah snipah iz soo gangsta
yeh, yuo right dawg. i gotsa git me whun.

[JoaMei]

The MP5 SD is sometimes used in that role. But its not a Sniper rifle by definition.

http://www.hotbarrel.de/mp5sd.gif

[onefast93z28]

Can't say I've heard of a 9x19mm "sniper rifle", but the Russian's have the VSS which 9x39mm

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn20-e.htm

[Whitcomb]

I guess if your looking for a small compact urban rifle, a 9x19mm pistol with a small stock and optics would work, or so ive been told

[California Joe]

What onefast said....

http://bastardsinc.blogs.com/bastardsinc/images/vss_vintorez_9mm_sniper_rifle.jpg

[AFG]

in WWII the brits designed a silent sniper/commando .45 rifle called the De Lisle, but other than that I don't know about any other pistol sniper rifles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Lisle_carbine

http://www.specialinterestarms.com/MVC-121E.JPG

[LordHalbert]

9mm in diameter is larger than a 7.62mm round !!

Note, that I never mentioned anything about the length of the round.

[SBL]

image of an experimental 9mm Sniper Rifle in action in afghanistan.


http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i228/Captainbadd/9mmsnipe.jpg

[I'mOnlyHalfPolish]

Can't say I've heard of a 9x19mm "sniper rifle", but the Russian's have the VSS which 9x39mm

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn20-e.htm

said it once and ill say it again...i want one...

[onefast93z28]

9mm in diameter is larger than a 7.62mm round !!

Note, that I never mentioned anything about the length of the round.

Are you trying to say that since the 9mm is bigger (in diameter) than a 7.62 it would be more deadly???


When people say 9mm they normally mean 9x19mm (at least those that I know) so that's what I thought you meant.

[evanfitz]

image of an experimental 9mm Sniper Rifle in action in afghanistan.


http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i228/Captainbadd/9mmsnipe.jpg

ACU??

12345o'rly46789

[LordHalbert]

Are you trying to say that since the 9mm is bigger (in diameter) than a 7.62 it would be more deadly???


When people say 9mm they normally mean 9x19mm (at least those that I know) so that's what I thought you meant.

Nope, I just meant a rifle round that was 9mm in diameter - that's all I meant. I didn't mean a pistol 9x19mm round.

[Yaar]

image of an experimental 9mm Sniper Rifle in action in afghanistan.

Hey, don't you ever think of OPSEC before posting? These guys have families back home... p-)

[LaoSexMachine]

This sounds like a John Woo movie.

[SBL]

ACU??

12345o'rly46789


Yeah, I worked really hard on it.


Hey, don't you ever think of OPSEC before posting? These guys have families back home... p-)

Nope. The scoop trumps all else.

[xEDGEx]

9x90 mm; bullpup, with built in fire-control computer linked to the scope, made by HK (I know this sounds like something from a movie):

http://www.hkpro.com/wsg2000.htm

[Roanoke]

Nope, I just meant a rifle round that was 9mm in diameter - that's all I meant. I didn't mean a pistol 9x19mm round.

While we're on the subject of strange fictitious rifle calibers we think up for no apparent reason.

Any 3mm sniper rifles? 4? 5? 6? 8? 10?

I'm still scratching my head as to why this thread was made.

[number nine]

Russian 9mm rifles exist. They mostly have supressors.

OC-14 Groza (in 9X39 Russian 9mm for supressed firearms, also exists in another calibers)

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as09-e.htm

http://world.guns.ru/ammo/sp-e.htm
Now, you see, for example this sniper in 9x39

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn20-e.htm is VSS. Pic has been posted, but it's not in 9 PARA (9x19) but in 9x39 SP5/SP6

[Wha_Dar]

There is the Hastings 9mm, classed or described as a medium range sniper rifle. Can be used with a suppressor.

[Kaplanr]

Looks like Charlie Brown trying to shoot Noah (of ark fame) or Job (Book of fame.)

[HK in AK]

If I remember right HK built a MP5 with a bull barrel and a MSG-90 style stock and it was a mini sniper rifle. I only think it was a test bed design and not full production. The barrel was 16 inches or longer....

[LordHalbert]

You laugh at me for suggesting a 9mm rifle round:

http://www.hkpro.com/wsgbullets.jpg

The left is a .50 caliber round.
The middle is a 9x90mm round (That'll leave a mark)
The right is a 7.62mm round.

[Roanoke]

You laugh at me for suggesting a 9mm rifle round:

http://www.hkpro.com/wsgbullets.jpg

The left is a .50 caliber round.
The middle is a 9x90mm round (That'll leave a mark)
The right is a 7.62mm round.

Firstly, if you knew of a 9mm sniper round, why did you have to ask?

Secondly, what rifle/machine gun uses that particular round?

[LordHalbert]

Firstly, if you knew of a 9mm sniper round, why did you have to ask?

Secondly, what rifle/machine gun uses that particular round?


I did not know of a 9mm sniper round until somebody above posted this:

http://www.hkpro.com/wsg2000.htm

Scroll down to see the image

[James]

The question has been answered at least twice.

YES.

[number nine]

That caliber reminds me of 7.92x107mm used for german PzB (antitank rifle) in WWII, powerful.

http://www.geocities.com/Augusta/8172/panzerfaust6.htm

That round was comparable to .55 Boys or .50 BMG with the benefit of greater penetration due to smaller diameter. And look at this gem!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kb_ppanc_wz.35

Modern AMR is 15 kilos or more, this one was only 10 kg, loaded.

I'd like to see AMR in 7.92x107mm, with Raufoss ammo. It would be less powerful than .50 BMG but 10 kilos, hey! That is a lot lighter than any AMRs (which are so similar to antitank rifles of old).

[Brute]

LOS-9-1 rifle:

http://talks.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/000378/378412.jpg

http://club.guns.ru/images/barnaul/fig10.jpg

http://www.raacfirearms.com/Los_9-1.htm

[GazB]

The problem with the small calibre anti tank rifle rounds with huge case capacities is they will wear out their barrels after 200 rounds or so. Not very practical. Also as they rely purely on velocity for effect they are not very dual purpose and lack range. Light bullets lose velocity much quicker than heavier bullets. A 7.92mm large case round might match the performance of the Boys 55 cal rifle at close range but at longer range it will not be anywhere near as effective. Not important at the time but as a general purpose weapon for street fighting where projectile weight can be important it will not be as useful. Needless to say a 7.92 or just over 30 cal bullet will not be able to carry a significant amount of HE to be effective at anything other than punching a small hole in what it hits.

[number nine]

Maybe you get worse AMR but about 14.5g (224 grain) bullet with 1450m/s Vo (4757 fps) is excellent anti personnel sniper rifle. I really think today's AMRs are too heavy and you should use ATGMs for that role. :) And recoil? Much more manageable than .50 sure :) Caliber is low but with sabot you'd get even 2000 m/s Vo (over 6500 fps starting velocity). think about lethality dude.

[GazB]

I really think today's AMRs are too heavy and you should use ATGMs for that role.

The SVN-98 weighs 11kgs, the KSVK weighs 12kgs, and the OSV-96 weighs just under 13kgs.


think about lethality dude.

I am. Velocity means armour penetration. It has nothing at all to do with lethality. There is a reason why hunters use expanding bullets. The larger the hole you make the worse the bleeding. Lose too much blood and you die. If you hit a vital organ then you die but if you don't then you die from bleeding to death. Making the biggest hole means being more lethal. A 14.5mm hole with a 64 gram bullet it rather more lethal than any little 30 cal bullet no matter what velocity that smaller bullet is travelling at. 64 grams means HE capacity too, or Incendiary capacity. A bullet size HE charge can inflict a nasty wound but a few grams of incendiary material can start a fire than burns down an entire field of food for the enemy or sets fire to the entire fuel dump.

[Einsamer Wolf]

Nobody heard of the SVDK?

http://club.guns.ru/images/convention/3.jpg

IZHMASH has recently disclosed their new project - the SVDK sniper rifle in caliber 9.3x64 mm. The rifle features a bipod, detachable 10-rd magazine, folding stock. The rifle can accommodate any type of sighting devices of both daytime and night vision.

http://club.guns.ru/images/convention/4.jpg
SVDK is built around the 9.o SN sniper cartridge (9.3x64 mm). Its 17 g bullet escapes muzzle at 760 m/sec.


Cheers
Einamer Wolf

[Peiper_76]

This is ridiculous. The ranges snipers operate at are much too far for a 9mm.

This is not ridiculous. If you doubt this, consider the conflict in Chechnya. There has been much utilization of .22LR in Chechnya by both sides as a sniper round. It is quiet, accurate, and does the job. Do away with the Hollywood-esque notion of the high-caliber-one-shot-one-kill-perfect-headshot, rather an injured right hand will do the trick.

Take the SV99 for example:
[ http://club.guns.ru/eng/sv99.html ]

[number nine]

The SVN-98 weighs 11kgs, the KSVK weighs 12kgs, and the OSV-96 weighs just under 13kgs.



I am. Velocity means armour penetration. It has nothing at all to do with lethality. There is a reason why hunters use expanding bullets. The larger the hole you make the worse the bleeding. Lose too much blood and you die. If you hit a vital organ then you die but if you don't then you die from bleeding to death. Making the biggest hole means being more lethal. A 14.5mm hole with a 64 gram bullet it rather more lethal than any little 30 cal bullet no matter what velocity that smaller bullet is travelling at. 64 grams means HE capacity too, or Incendiary capacity. A bullet size HE charge can inflict a nasty wound but a few grams of incendiary material can start a fire than burns down an entire field of food for the enemy or sets fire to the entire fuel dump.

Lethality has to do a lot with speed of the bullet, when you don't use HP or SP and the like but FMJ (like army has to do). With FMJs with terminal velocity of 610 m/s or greater (2000 fps) you have high enough drag for high lethality (compared to slow e 1000fps or 305 m/s bullet), more, the better and nastier.

[GazB]

With FMJs with terminal velocity of 610 m/s or greater (2000 fps) you have high enough drag for high lethality (compared to slow e 1000fps or 305 m/s bullet), more, the better and nastier.

So you would say a 14 ton truck being lowered onto a person at... say 15m/s is less lethal than a single Photon with no mass travelling at the speed of light? Perhaps the army should introduce flashlights as weapons...
There are dozens and dozens of aspects of bullet design that influence how lethal it is but other factors include the targets attitude and where the projectile hits. If velocity was equivelent to lethality then everyone would be using flechettes. During tests it was found a flechette can penetrate a human heart and not kill the target. Even if it is a 9 gram projectile travelling at 1,400mps. In fact the rifle has no range adjustment out to 1,000m because there is almost no bullet drop out to that range.

BTW terminal velocity is a bodies maximum speed in air without assistance... in other words if you drop a bullet from a plane when it reaches maximum speed it will stop accelerating and its velocity will remain largely constant. For most 30 cal bullets that velocity is about 350 fps. When a 30 cal bullet leaves the muzzle it will continue to slow down during its entire flight till it reaches that terminal velocity and then it will stop decellerating.
The only difference between a high velocity bullet and a low velocity bullet is the temporary cavity that the high velocity bullet creates in human flesh.

Read this:

http://www.rkba.org/research/fackler/wrong.html

As the US military seems to have found out that a larger calibre heavier slug is often more lethal than a smaller lighter faster slug in pistols and rifles...

[number nine]

The only difference between a high velocity bullet and a low velocity bullet is the temporary cavity that the high velocity bullet creates in human flesh.

Maybe that is somewhat important don't you think?

[nagant_m44]

LOS-9-1 rifle:

http://talks.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/000378/378412.jpg

http://club.guns.ru/images/barnaul/fig10.jpg

http://www.raacfirearms.com/Los_9-1.htm

beautiful rifle, i would get one myself if only they imported the ammo