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tbk107
08-14-2007, 09:59 AM
I found this interesting. What was causing all that warming in the 1930's and I wonder why we haven't heard more about these changes.

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=61b0590f-c5e6-4772-8cd1-2fefe0905363&p=1



Lorne Gunter, National Post
Published: Monday, August 13, 2007

In his enviro-propaganda flick, An Inconvenient Truth, Al Gore claims nine of the 10 hottest years on record have occurred in the last decade. That's been a common refrain for environmentalists, too, and one of the centrepieces of global warming hysteria: It's been really hot lately -- abnormally hot -- so we all need to be afraid, very afraid. The trouble is, it's no longer true.

Last week, NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies -- whose temperature records are a key component of the global-warming claim (and whose director, James Hansen, is a sort of godfather of global-warming alarmism) -- quietly corrected an error in its data set that had made recent temperatures seem warmer than they really were.

A little less than a decade ago, the U.S. government changed the way it recorded temperatures. No one thought to correlate the new temperatures with the old ones, though -- no one until Canadian researcher Steve McIntyre, that is.

McIntyre has become the bane of many warmers' religious-like belief in climate catastrophe. In 2003, along with economist Ross McKitrick, McIntyre demolished the Mann "hockey stick" --a graph that showed stable temperatures for 1,000 years, then shooting up dangerously in the last half of the 20th Century.

The graph was used prominently by the UN and nearly every major eco lobby. But McIntyre and McKitrick demonstrated it was based on incomplete and inaccurate data.

To NASA's credit, when McIntyre pointed out their temperature errors they quickly made corrections.

Still, the pro-warmers who dominate the Goddard Institute almost certainly recognized the impacts these changes would have on the global-warming debate, because they made no formal announcement of their recalculations.

In many cases, the changes are statistically minor, but their potential impact on the rhetoric surrounding global warming is huge.

The hottest year since 1880 becomes 1934 instead of 1998, which is now just second; 1921 is third.

Four of the 10 hottest years were in the 1930s, only three in the past decade. Claiming that man-made carbon dioxide has caused the natural disasters of recent years makes as much sense as claiming fossil-fuel burning caused the Great Depression.

The 15 hottest years since 1880 are spread over seven decades. Eight occurred before atmospheric carbon dioxide began its recent rise; seven occurred afterwards.

In other words, there is no discernible trend, no obvious warming of late.

Ever since the correction became a hot topic on blogs, the pro-warmers have tried to downplay its significance, insisting, for example, that the alterations merely amount to "very minor rearrangements in the various rankings."

It's true the changes aren't dramatic. But the optics are.

Imagine if the shoe were on the other foot. Imagine the shrieking of the warmers if we had previously thought that hot years were scattered throughout the past 130 years, but after a correction the warmest years could be seen to be concentrated in the past decade.

They would insist the revised data proved their case. They would blitz every news organization and talk show. They would demand to be allowed to indoctrinate school children on the evils of cars and factories.

So they shouldn't be permitted to brush aside this new data, which makes their claims harder to prove.

Ten years ago, warmers found a similarly small error in the temperature data collected by weather satellites. The satellites were a thorn in their sides because while the warmers were insisting the Earth was getting hotter, the satellites showed it was in fact cooling ever so slightly.

Then the warmers discovered that the scientists who maintained the orbiting thermometers had failed to account for orbital decay, the almost infinitesimally small downward drift of the "birds" every year.

When the effects of drift were added into the observations, the cooling was found to be just 0.01 degree per decade rather than the 0.04 degrees previously claimed.

On this basis, the warmers now insisted then that even the satellites were somehow in agreement with their theory.

Of course, the current NASA changes are only for data collected in the United States. But available surface temperature readings cover only half the planet even today. Before the Second World War, they covered less than a quarter. So U.S. readings for a period that goes as far back as 1880 are among the most reliable there are.

Perhaps we will have uncontrollable warming in the future, but it likely hasn't started yet.

Gman3ID
08-14-2007, 10:29 AM
OK, Let's say Global warming is non-existent, Why not "go green"?

1. It saves you money as a consumer or a business.

2. It takes the backbone out of "Big Oil" while being environmentally friendly.

I mean energy is everything isn't it!!!

Governments in power today revolve around oil, whether you produce, refine, or consume it.

It takes money out of my pocket, And if theirs an alternative, why not use it?

John Crighton
08-14-2007, 10:39 AM
OK, Let's say Global warming is non-existent, Why not "go green"?

1. It saves you money as a consumer or a business.



You lost it right there. These products are universally more expensive.



2. It takes the backbone out of "Big Oil" while being environmentally friendly.

I mean energy is everything isn't it!!!

Governments in power today revolve around oil, whether you produce, refine, or consume it.

It takes money out of my pocket, And if theirs an alternative, why not use it?

Rage on against the machine!!!!

Mu-Meson
08-14-2007, 10:50 AM
I don't think tbk 107 is quite saying there is no global warming. Just questioning the causes.

Going green is certainly an admirable thing to do, but much of what is being touted as 'green' is actually not really that environmentally friendly. Take Compact Fluorescent Light bulbs (CFL); yes they can save you something like 75% in electricity but they can contain up to 5-6 mg of Mercury. Since most people will throw out CFL's with their regular trash, does it still make sense, environmentally-wise? Its the law of unintended consequences.

Now take hybrid cars:

Driving a hybrid vehicle costs more in terms of overall energy consumed than comparable non-hybrid vehicles, according to CNW Marketing Research Inc.

http://www.caranddriver.com/dailyautoinsider/10871/doubts-cast-on-hybrid-efficiency.htm

Read the article. I'm not saying these things aren't worth doing, I'm saying that perhaps we should be checking them out more.

Gman3ID
08-14-2007, 11:04 AM
You lost it right there. These products are universally more expensive.

Right now they are, how about in say 5 yrs when they are paid for and cost 0.




Rage on against the machine!!!!

Right now they are, how about in say 5 yrs when they are paid for and cost 0.



True or not ,Oil = power, windfall profits, and less $ in YOUR pocket.

Do you invest in Oil my good friend?

vinny_121_ND
08-14-2007, 11:11 AM
global warming activists still use the hockey stick analysis to prove global warming. They're using old, and wrong data that even the researchers can't find the original data. So far, that paper has been retracted from print I believe. There are thousands of papers stating global warming is the cause, but honestly, grant money depends on the word 'global warming'.

For example, monsoon rains in india, are not caused by global warming. It's the season for it to happen. It's natural for them to have rains like it.

the 1930's were a tremendously hot period and no one ever had a root cause for it.

In closing, if opposition politicians feel that climate change is a serious issue where it is man made CO2, then they would enforce
1) stop smoking
2) stop driving cars
3) stop having kids
4) stop immigration
5) Start killing people who cause global warming
6) no uses electricity.

until the weather becomes 22 degrees celsius, (77 F) everyday, and everywhere. Of course, that is crazy, and no one will ever enforce that.

LMAV
08-14-2007, 12:27 PM
OK, Let's say Global warming is non-existent, Why not "go green"?

1. It saves you money as a consumer or a business.

2. It takes the backbone out of "Big Oil" while being environmentally friendly.

I mean energy is everything isn't it!!!

Governments in power today revolve around oil, whether you produce, refine, or consume it.

It takes money out of my pocket, And if theirs an alternative, why not use it?


What you and many other zealots don't seem to realize, is that the global warming movement has become very religion like. These people want to change the way we live fundamentally. That doesn't worry you? How long before they get all the power and start demanding that you give up freedoms, for the good of the planet?

What amazes me most about the people most vocal about global warming, is that they are the same people who claim Bush is just trying to scare everyone. Yet, they willing fall in to what, to me, is an obvious scam! Carbon credits and all that bull**** is nothing more than a way for another group to make money off a bunch of idiots. If we were truly in the dire straights they say we are, wouldn't the most vocal people lead by example?

Gman3ID
08-14-2007, 12:44 PM
What you and many other zealots don't seem to realize, is that the global warming movement has become very religion like. These people want to change the way we live fundamentally. That doesn't worry you? How long before they get all the power and start demanding that you give up freedoms, for the good of the planet?

What amazes me most about the people most vocal about global warming, is that they are the same people who claim Bush is just trying to scare everyone. Yet, they willing fall in to what, to me, is an obvious scam! Carbon credits and all that bull**** is nothing more than a way for another group to make money off a bunch of idiots. If we were truly in the dire straights they say we are, wouldn't the most vocal people lead by example?

LOL, "religion like" no. Talk to rove about religious ideologies.

I more worried about wars without a plan for victory than people interested in converting my car to run on biodiesel.

John Crighton
08-14-2007, 03:08 PM
Right now they are, how about in say 5 yrs when they are paid for and cost 0.



True or not ,Oil = power, windfall profits, and less $ in YOUR pocket.

Do you invest in Oil my good friend?

Dream on commie. (to everything above)