Freedom of press in Germany

[seer]

http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/1/4383/z4383661X.jpg

A court in Colone Germany stoped the publication of the above picture of Erika Steinbach (a german politician) because it might insult her feelings. The penelty for publishing this picture is 250 000 euros.
rofl

[onefast93z28]

Wow, I don't think they should have published the picture (not knowing anything about the woman I'll give her the benefit of the doubt), but a fine that high? Makes me glad we have our 1st Amendment.

[ZhukovG]

wooow but she is not using any Nazi sign
where did u get that news?

[seer]

http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/Wiadomosci/1,80277,4393923.html

Sorry do not have time to translate now.

[Vandervahn]

Then don´t post it, board language is English.

And what exactly is the problem? What is your connection between freedom of the press and this photo?

[tsuri]

I actually had to look it up.

Source for german readers (http://www.berlinonline.de/berliner-zeitung/print/politik/678633.html)

Erika Steinbach who is representing the Prussian Trust ( A non governmental Organisation of people who lost their property(some legit, some not) when the eastern borders of the German Reich were adjusted was put on this poster which also has a Hitler quote on it and the poster was mailed to several german political institutions by the Polish Trust, a Polish organisation which is pretty much the same as the Prussian Trust but Polish.

So it is basically poo flinging from retard to retard.

The court ruling is not final. It is a "Einstweilige Verfügung" which basically freezes the situation to assess if the rights of the one who went to court were violated.
It has nothing to do with freedom of the press ,everyone can get a Einstweilige Verfügung basically.
If the court finds it was unjustified, the other party can even sue for compensation.

But I am not a lawyer so we have to wait for a certain member who can explain it correctly.

And if our polish friends still have that impression:
There is not even a significant minority that supports the Prussian Trust in Germany
They annoy us as much as they do you.

[Kilgor]

fail.......

[theholeinthedonut]

Good job tsuri,

" poo slinging from retard to retard..." pretty much sums it up

[MajorTom]

Nazi pictures and connections are forbidden in Germany for obvious reasons.

Generally Germany is doing fine what comes to freedom of press:
http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=19388

[muck]

We're on No 23 together with Benin and Jamaica, wtf rofland nonetheless we rank much higher than the UK or the US

However people, on the helmet of the soldier on that picture I spot two very significant runes, namely the SS-emblem. That artist therewith suggests her closeness to the Nazis and if she feels insulted through this she is allowed to take steps against the publication by law because according to our constitution, everyone has a right on personal honour.

By the way, Mrs Steinbach is not connected to the Prussian Trust in any way but she is chairman of the Federation of Displaced Persons (BdV) and by the way a member of parliament.

[Vandervahn]

...and nonetheless we rank much higher than the UK or the US

...or Poland ;)

Good call on the Prussian trust mistake. This organization is indeed a collection of nutjobs. BUT, the "BdV" organisation of Erika Steinbach is a ifferent one and mainly aims at settlement, not compensation as the Trust does. Anyway, after reading a bit about this it becomes quite clear that the thread starter missed a little fact: that this defaming picture (which includes a caption alluding to one of Hitlers speeches) is not from a media outlet, so its hardly an issue of press freedom anyway.

As Tsuri said it was made by the Prussian Trust´s counterpart, the "Polish Trust", and explicitly circulated to damage the woman´s reputation (the Trust even admits that!) - again, although Mrs Steinbach is not affiliated with the Prussian Trust in any way. And, in another funny twist of events, a leading figure of said Polis Trust is a female senator of the Polish PiS government party. p-)

As Kilgor said: fail......

[seer]

..

So it is basically poo flinging from retard to retard.

...
They annoy us as much as they do you.

http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/7/4398/z4398327N.jpg

It looks like European parliament’s president Hans Goerta Poettering joined Erika Steinbachs 'poo flinging retards' at their rally today. Erika Steinbach - the same German politician that was questioning current German-Polish border not long ago. European 'unity' at its best. :-(

[zoidberg]

Your mongering is boring.

Even in this forum nobody joins you, that says alot.


fail.......

[muck]

http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/7/4398/z4398327N.jpg

It looks like European parliament’s president Hans Goerta Poettering joined Erika Steinbachs 'poo flinging retards' at their rally today. Erika Steinbach - the same German politician that was questioning current German-Polish border not long ago. European 'unity' at its best. :-(

Whose country's Foreign Minister wanted to nullify the Oder-Neiße-treaty? Whose country's Prime Minister came up with EU-votes for a hypothetical part of population?

[Musashi]

Whose country's Foreign Minister wanted to nullify the Oder-Neiße-treaty?
Any sources for you claim? I haven't heard Our Little Great Leader saying something like that.

[Conga]

Anyway, why is the polish press always bitching about Erika Steinbach? Most Germans don't even know she exists.

[muck]

@All
Sorry, my bad. I only had in memory that she demanded to nullify the treaty. Actually, she apparently wanted a new treaty in which Germany should sign an clause to confirm it will waive claims and compensations in perpetuity.

(at least I acknowledge my mistake p-))

[seer]

Anyway, why is the polish press always bitching about Erika Steinbach? Most Germans don't even know she exists.

She questions the German-Polish border or demands compensation for the Germans displaced from Poland and Czech Republic (funny she is not demanding anything from France) after the war. Places the German expelled along the Poles and Jews as victims of ww2 and usually puts the blame on Poland. She is linked to neo-Nazi movements. She wants to build a propaganda center under the blanket of Federation of German Expellees in Berlin. etc.. etc..
All of that would not be a big problem since there are a lot of people with all kinds of views and they have a right to express them, however; Erica Steinbach is supported by a lot of German politicians like the German President Horst Kholer, Stoiber, European Parliment President Hans Poettering etc.. The rest like Angela Merkel does not even distance themselves from Erika S.
Until this issue is resolved German-Polish relations will never be normal. German expellees need to be remembered but everything has to be put into historical context.



Expelled from Tschenstochau (http://polishpress.wordpress.com/2007/03/15/expelled-from-tschenstochau/)

15 03 2007
Source: Wprost (weekly) of 18th March 2007
Author: Piotr Cywiński in Berlin

* * *
German law allows the number of the expelled to be endlessly multiplied
‘A Russian dragged my sister-in-law out of the room. We heard shots. Then he returned. We we praying as he was shooting the grandmother, then my father, who only managed to say “auf wiedersehen” to my mum and us. My sister was sitting on the side. She was holding two children in her arms. He shot them too. Then my aunt. He wanted to take me. When i struggled, he hit me with the gun butt, cut my trousers down and raped me. Then he went away, but shortly came back and shot the baby in a pram’. This is a fragment Christel Jolitz’s memories published by the German Bild (http://www.bild.de/) daily. This popular tabloid had published the real-life tragical stories before the public ARD channel broadcast the film entitled Die Flucht (Escape), by the public ARD channel. The characters and the plot in the film were fictional. The only real thing about it was the great exodus of Germans before the incoming Soviet Red Army.
Although a record number of viewers watched Die Flucht, the film is not a work of art. The screenplay unfolds a story about love between a German countess and a French POW doing forced labour on an estate in Eastern Prussia. The story is not very convincing, however it is set in the background that reflects facts. As Erika Steinbach, the president of the Federation of the Expelled (BdV), rightfully points out, the reality was more cruel and tragic. The 46-year-old director Kai Wessel says with pride, that he finally said out loud what had been kept in silence for 60 years. However, that reputed-silence surrounding the 12 million Germans, who run away fearing revenge or were resettled, is just a plain marketing trick.
Hitler’s last victims
There have been millions of pages of academic theses and literary works written on the subject of escape or resettlements in the Federal Republic of Germany. In 1949 a Ministry for the Expelled was formed, which existed until 1969. Museums remembering the little Heimats are scattered around the country, as well as Landsmannshafts receiving public funding, affiliating former residents even of those cities like Tschenstohau (Częstochowa), where German minorities before the war did not exist. And there is the powerful Bund der Vertriebenen (Federation of the Expelled). First movies about old lands and the fate of Germans were made in the 50s, for example Grün ist die Heide, or the later produced Death of My Father. Only in the last few months we could see on silver or tv screens: Escape and expulsion, trilogy Exile, Hitler’s Last Victims (on the tragedy of the Wilhelm Güstloff ship), two-episode Dresden (on bombing) and two films on the last days of Hitler’s life.




Talking about a silence surrounding expulsions is as nonsense, as the German politicians’ assurances that Erika Steinbach is powerless. Nota bene the problem does not only come down to her, although she actually personifies it well. The sole fact of appointing her in 1998 to the office of president of the Federation of the Expelled was a provocation. Since her parents were nazi occupants who settled in Rumia near the city of Gdynia during the war. BdV is full of people like her. And it is legitimised by an awkward definition in the statue for the expelled and refugees (Gesetz über die Angelegenheiten der Vertriebenen und Flüchtinge). It says:
Expelled is the one, who as a German citizen or a person belonging to the German nation, had had their place of residence in the German eastern lands, which had been previously under foreign administration or on the lands of the German Reich, on December 31st 1937, and had lost it in relation to the occurrences of The Second World War due to expulsion or escape’.In accordance with to that definition, “expelled” in Germany multiply in numbers - and some estimates say - their number has risen to 15 million people. BdV membership cards are given also to the grandchildren of the resettled or economic migrants of recent years. Politicians seem not to see this, like they similarly do not see the links between BdV and neonazi movements, which were pointed out couple times. Paul Latussek, who used to be Erika Steinbach’s deputy, was also ruling the extreme right Free Citizens Federation (BfB), while his outrageous remarks on Holocaust cost him the job of lecturer at University of Ilmenau.
Few years ago Klaus Bednarz asked a question in his tv show “Monitor” ‘What does the multimillion budget funding for Bdv go for?’ The funds are aimed at helping to preserve cultural tradition, and historical inheritance of the expelled, and they go into destruction’. Maybe this is a coincidence, but soon after Bednarz lost his job at the television, and Erika Steinbach was chosen for the ZDF public channel’s board, and to thegoverning board of CDU, the party currently governing Germany. And then for the president of the CDU/CSU Human Rights Working Group at the German parliament. And some other lucrative posts. When not so long ago, in a tv debate with Steinbach, I quoted a letter sent by BdV members accusing her that she ‘is making political career using the resettled’ and calling her to ‘resign as soon as possible’ , she replied to me with a cynical smile, that she cannot complain for lack of support. Steinbach is very selfcertain. The main argument she directs at her political opponents is the electoral blackmail. Large parties are afraid of losing votes.
Rewriting History
Steinbach uses the good old rule, that a lie told over and over becomes truth. When she speaks, things start to take different proportions. Causes become smaller, the outcomes become bigger. The number of “expelled” increases too. During the expultions and escape 500-600.000 Germans died. She keeps talking about 2 million. It’s rewriting history. No serious researcher confirms these numbers. Who gives those numbers only wants to make foreign policy with it, and gather attention - says Ingo Haar, historian from Berlin.
Research conducted by the Federal Republic f Germany in 1974 conluded that there were 400.000 victims on the East from river Oder and 100.000 in Czechoslovakia. In the 80s a joined Czech-German commission, after doing deep research, has lowered the number of victims to 15-16.000 and agreed that the false numbers from the 50s will not be repeated any more. Stainbach remains deaf for these arguments.
Steinbach über alles
For bad Polish-German relations Steinbach blames the Polish parties, which she compared to neonazis. When a Wehrmacht’s officer’s daughter, born at the end of the war, who after 50 years voted against the border treaty with Poland, says that - it carries some extra meaning. (…) It is difficult to count her provocations: from attempts to block Poland’s entry to the EU until it returns the estates and pays compensations to the expelled, to outrageous remarks about “not consulting the fitting of buildings in Warsaw with Germans, who tore the city down.”
It raises a question, is one person more importaint for the Germany than good relations with a neighbouring country, or are her views more common? German politicians seem like they were acting according to “Steinbach über alles” principle. It is not needed to hear her apology. What is needed is a discussion among Germans themselves, what are they going to do with BdV-anachronism? Stefan Hambura, attorney from Berlin, thinks that the current Polish-German crisis is the last chance to close the the issue of of escape, resettlement, “expulsion”, and compensations. He suggests a final solution to this problem by proper acts, that should be attached to the European Constitution.
Will German politicians find enough strong will to deal with this inconvenient ballast from the past? One thing is certain: the way of solving the problem of BdV will be a gauge, that will tell us how sincere their conciliatory intentions are.

http://polishpress.wordpress.com/tag/history/expulsions/

[Weasel]

Until this issue is resolved German-Polish relations will never be normal. German expellees need to be remembered but everything has to be put into historical context.

There is nothing to be resolved because everything is very clear....and stays clear.

[Domen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79No-J2eso4

[Stormz_STA]

^
Was that really needed?
An inflammatory post such as yours in a 3-year old thread is gonna get you suspended.

[Domen]

I don't know where to post it really :P

But Erika has said something that Poland started WW2 recently if I'm correct. ^^ So it's quite a "hot issue" now.

Btw - here also a funny video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCD9xYv80Rw&feature=related

[Stormz_STA]

But Erika has said something that Poland started WW2 recently if I'm correct. ^^ So it's quite a "hot issue" now.


No, that's not what she said, and it's not such a "hot issue" as German politicians and media reacted in a proper way.

You really want to be suspended, don't you?

[Steak-Sauce]

I don't share your definition of "funny", Domen.

"Funny" would be to see your sorry ass being banned from MP.net for necroposting retarded YouTube videos and general flaming.

[Indiana Jones]

I don't know where to post it really :P

But Erika has said something that Poland started WW2 recently if I'm correct. ^^ So it's quite a "hot issue" now.

Btw - here also a funny video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCD9xYv80Rw&feature=related
I think this "affair" is a case of carefully manufactured faux outrage more than anything.
What Mrs. Steinbach said was: "Ich kann es leider auch nicht ändern, daß Polen bereits im März 1939 mobil gemacht hat" ( I unfortunately cannot change either that Poland already mobilisied in March 1939) This was in the context of a discussion about an article of the "Pommersche Zeitung" by a certain Mr. Tögl. Factually that is correct, even though the mobilisation was only a partial one in response to the annexation of what was left of Czechoslovakia. This statement was then taken as a token for an alleged attempt of Mrs. Steinbach to relativise Germanys' responsibility for starting the war.
What tends to be omitted is that she actually also directly commented on the topic of responsibility: "Eines ist für mich ganz deutlich: Den Krieg hat Deutschland angefangen"- "One thing is perfectly clear for me: The war was started by Germany".
Now I am not exactly 100% d'accord with Mrs. Steinbachs historical views, but common decency demands that one does not distort the content of public utterances by such fundamental omissions.
And as for the videos you posted, they are frankly an embarrassment to yourself.
IJ.

[JCR]

As long as there are poles like that, germany needs people like Steinbach just to uphold the balance of backwardness :)

[Mackie]

Retards live on both sides of the Oder. Domen is a good example, Steinbach is a good one.
I prefer to ignore them and politics. I look at the well balanced trade between Germany and Poland, the many Poles well integrated in our society - and I am relaxed.

[Domen]

Funny" would be to see your sorry ass being banned from MP.net for necroposting retarded YouTube videos and general flaming.


http://forum.e-wesele.pl/Smileys/ewesele/Bana_mu.gif



As long as there are poles like that,


These are poles:

http://www.google.pl/images?hl=pl&rlz=1T4ASUS_pl___PL331&q=poles&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1345&bih=541

See the difference between poles and Poles?



germany needs people like Steinbach just to uphold the balance of backwardness :-)


I would say that the ratio of backwardness is rather like 3 : 2 in favour of Germany. ;)



Retards live on both sides of the Oder. Domen is a good example


Actually I live to the north-east from the outlet of Oder to the Baltic Sea. Thus you cannot say I live on any side of this river.

So you are wrong. :)



I don't share your definition of "funny", Domen.


Ok, it seems you don't like political jokes and Islamic music (while I love both). :)


I think this "affair" is a case of carefully manufactured faux outrage more than anything.
What Mrs. Steinbach said was: "Ich kann es leider auch nicht ändern, daß Polen bereits im März 1939 mobil gemacht hat" ( I unfortunately cannot change either that Poland already mobilisied in March 1939) This was in the context of a discussion about an article of the "Pommersche Zeitung" by a certain Mr. Tögl. Factually that is correct, even though the mobilisation was only a partial one in response to the annexation of what was left of Czechoslovakia. This statement was then taken as a token for an alleged attempt of Mrs. Steinbach to relativise Germanys' responsibility for starting the war.
What tends to be omitted is that she actually also directly commented on the topic of responsibility: "Eines ist für mich ganz deutlich: Den Krieg hat Deutschland angefangen"- "One thing is perfectly clear for me: The war was started by Germany".


Thanks for explaining this issue - I only know the "official version" of Steinbach's statement provided by German media.



Now I am not exactly 100% d'accord with Mrs. Steinbachs historical views, but common decency demands that one does not distort the content of public utterances by such fundamental omissions.


It seems German journalists lack common decency.

[Indiana Jones]

Ok, it seems you don't like political jokes and Islamic music (while I love both). http://www.militaryphotos.net/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif
The videos you posted are not meant to be entertaining and you'd have to be rather spectacularly dense not to recognise that.

It seems German journalists lack common decency. Alot of them do, make no mistake. Then again, the Polish press is generally not at its best either concerning the quality of their research when it comes to the issue of Mrs. Steinbach.

[Redox]

Ok, it seems you don't like political jokes and Islamic music (while I love both). :)

The music is not islamic btw but Indian. You couldnt even get that right. :D

[matthew.manhorn]

Aren't the 2 lightning bolts the symbol of the Schutzstaffel? Correct me if I'm wrong.

[IconOfEvi]

Aren't the 2 lightning bolts the symbol of the Schutzstaffel? Correct me if I'm wrong.

They are runes.

That particular one is Sigel, which means variously: 'Sun', 'life', 'happiness', and 'will', among others if I recall correctly

[Mackie]

Actually I live to the north-east from the outlet of Oder to the Baltic Sea. Thus you cannot say I live on any side of this river.

So you are wrong. :)

You are a retard. Fact

[IconOfEvi]

You are a retard. Fact

Chill pill man. Take it easy :)

Immerse yourself in some Pakistani thread instead, guaranteed funnies

[toki]

Chill pill man. Take it easy :)
Immerse yourself in some Pakistani thread instead, guaranteed funnies

I'm guessing Mackie is pretty chilled. He's just stating the obvious.