Islam in Europe

[SeanAshi]

http://www.youtube.com/v/nI5WoXpmPiM

[Litti]

Bla bla ****ing bla. Christmas is going to be destroyed and we are all going to die.

[lightfire]

well, some good thoughts I could agree, but certainly he didn't avoid few generalisations. Sadly, noone in EP will listen to this or alike and better remain spinless as ussual, than face modern realities and esspecially threats.

[Litti]

A few generalisations? Surely you jest :D

I had a good laugh with my muslim friend watching this wacko.

http://www.mindhacks.com/blog/files/2005/11/tinfoil_test.jpg

[Danik]

I lasted 14 seconds.

This nikkas accent is heavy, what hood he claim?

[SonKev]

LOL! This guy is really pissed. To bad no one cares, and when they will the muslims will already be 75% of the population in Europe...

Well I just hope it doesnt spread all the way to America.

(no offense to anyone, just my opinion)

[Litti]

No need to worry about that. At the current rate, latinos will take control of USA way before muslims do anything in Europe. p-)

[SonKev]

No need to worry about that. At the current rate, latinos will take control of USA way before muslims do anything in Europe. p-)


Latinos don't have 3-4 wifes and 9 children with each though

[JJC]

No need to worry about that. At the current rate, latinos will take control of USA way before muslims do anything in Europe. p-)

I grew up with Latinos and let me say I'll be laffin and drinking with some hot a$$ Latino ladies and buddies, while you can enjoy Miss burka contest in 70 years from now. rofl

I don't know how much of what the man described is true, but if anyone confirms for me that the mayor of Brussels does intent to ban 9/11 memorial ???? out of fear of offending local Muslims, I don't know how anyone would shrug that off as a non issue.

[SonKev]

I grew up with Latinos and let me say I'll be laffin and drinking with some hot a$$ Latino ladies and buddies, while you can enjoy Miss burka contest in 70 years from now. rofl

I don't know how much of what the man described is true, but if anyone confirms for me that the mayor of Brussels does intent to ban 9/11 memorial ???? out of fear of offending local Muslims, I don't know how anyone would shrug that off as a non issue.


That would be so terrible, makes me sick...

[Litti]

I grew up with Latinos and let me say I'll be laffin and drinking with some hot a$$ Latino ladies and buddies, while you can enjoy Miss burka contest in 70 years from now. roflYeah, sure seems to work like a charm. Just ask from them good ol' people living in LA. I heard something about "massive amount of illegal immigrants" and "thousands of criminal latino gangs a growing concern in USA" , probably just a rumour. p-)

At the same time we havent had any problems with muslims in Finland. They seem to enjoy their personal freedoms for some bizarre reason and go on with their daily business just like anyone else.

[JJC]

Yeah, sure seems to work like a charm. Just ask from them good ol' people living in LA. p-)

At the same time we havent had any problems with muslims in Finland. They seem to enjoy their personal freedoms for some bizarre reason.

Are you saying Finlad doesn't have a crime problem? Are you trying to compare LA's gang violence, to an ideology that is posing a global threat because they feel other cultures and religions are inferior to theirs?..:roll:

[Litti]

That event doesnt really have anything to do with 911 victims. It´s just a smokescreen for these nutters who are trying to provocate the muslim population in the city.

The organization is called "Stop Islam in Europe", they should try out the clown school. Great potential there.

[JJC]

That event doesnt really have anything to do with 911 victims. It´s just a smokescreen for these nutters who are trying to provocate the muslim population in the city.

The organization is called "Stop Islam in Europe", they should try out the clown school. Great potential there.

Can you first answer my question how you equate Latinos in LA with threat of radical Islam??

[Litti]

Are you trying to compare LA's gang violence, to an ideology that is posing a global threat because they feel other cultures and religions are inferior to theirs?Not really. Some somali youngsters were causing trouble in Helsinki but after a basketball field was built, there has hardly been any disturbances in the city centre.

Global threat? :roll:

A couple of criminals are going to take over the world? Hehe I´m more afraid that a lightning bolt might hit my face.

[Litti]

Can you first answer my question how you equate Latinos in LA with threat of radical Islam??Criminal gangs working inside your own country are more likely to cause violence and murders than some idiots in another country.

Every 32nd american jailed, speaks volumes about where the real problems come from?

[JJC]

Global threat? :roll:.

Oh, yes I'm sorry I watch too much Fox News, guess I'm brain washed.

[Litti]

I bet countries like China are concerned over this gloal threat.

They are really shaking in South-America.

Mongolians are stockpiling as we speak. p-)

[stuntman]

I bet countries like China are concerned over this gloal threat. They are really shaking in South-America. Japanese are stockpiling as we speak.
I hope you know that when he said global threat he meant terrorist not the gangs of LA.

[JJC]

I bet countries like China are concerned over this gloal threat.

They are really shaking in South-America.

Mongolians are stockpiling as we speak. p-)

I guess you missed the parts of news about Chinese operations in Uigur regions of their country, so yes even the Chinese these days are concerned.

[Litti]

China has a pretty good history of treating its minorities with an iron fist, it has nothing to do with this dreaded threat of yours. I think it´s rather tasteless that you paint this oppression as somekind of a security operation. You know they did the same thing in Tibet for the same reasons.

As I said, it is more likely that a meteor or a lightning bolt will hit my head when compared to the possibility that a muslim will kill me in order to achieve world domination. And to be honest I dont really worry eventhough I´ve seen Deep Impact.

[Niels]

Can you first answer my question how you equate Latinos in LA with threat of radical Islam??
Uh yeah, not all muslims are radical islamic terrorists. Next to that, gangs cause way more crime in the US than muslims in Europe.


It's ironic how Americans are always telling us how things are in Europe. When we say we don't wear burqas or aren't forced to read the koran three times a day, it's not because we're denying it or fail to see "the truth", it's simply because it isn't so.

[Skutatos]

Its ironic how europeans are always telling us how things are in america...:roll:

[Niels]

Its ironic how europeans are always telling us how things are in america...:roll:
Show me a thread where Europeans panick about a hispanic invasion in the US and how you'll have Miss Mexico contests in 30 years.

Inverting the statement and adding a rolling eyes smiley doesn't work all the time. :roll:

[Nansouty]

Well, I have muslim friends, I have dated muslim girls in my time... they live, love, suffer and rejoicejust like we do. They bleed just as red too. Muslim populations here are well integrated... European countries are their homes now, just as it is "stock" Europeans'. I see them as my fellow countrymen. That this will cause some changes in European culture cannot be denied... but it has hardly remained the same over the course of the last century. Conversely, European Muslimes don't live in protected glasshouses... European culture can't help but deeply affect their religious practice and their faith. I am quite sure AlQaeda and other salafist rabbles are just as wary of peaceful integration into European societies as of US presence in the Middle East, as some day, European Muslims will speak out loud and denounce salafism as the garbage it really is.
Now, thsi doesn't mean there aren't any issues... Like in every population, you'll find morons and hotheads among European muslims too (integration is a bumpy process at times... ) but to say the truth, I am not more scared of tehm than I am of the neo fascist rabble here. Violent and vocal groups they may be, but they will remain a tiny minority as long as we keep our calm. If I may complete Burke's so often quoted maxim, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing or act precipitously and stupidly"

[AlterMega]

Show me a thread where Europeans panick about a hispanic invasion in the US and how you'll have Miss Mexico contests in 30 years.

Inverting the statement and adding a rolling eyes smiley doesn't work all the time. :roll:

how ever rediculous you think this issue is,clearly some Europeans are worried about Islamisation and unwillingness to assimilate.How about addressing the video -he doesn't sound American to me.

[Quack of Doom]

Latinos don't have 3-4 wifes and 9 children with each though
Sooo, muslims do?

[Kaapeli]

LOL! This guy is really pissed. To bad no one cares, and when they will the muslims will already be 75% of the population in Europe...


How do you suppose under 5% will turn into 75%?
I think people who say things like that haven't got a clue about the demographics of Europe.

And what if it did? Europe is somewhere around 80-90% christian but do you see a a christian theocracy here? No.
Religion doesn't run states and write laws in Europe, not christianity, not islam, not anything.

[INAT]

When Muslims reach a majority in an area they demand seperate Islamic rules and want to breakaway from host nation.This is my exp on the issue.
Islam is so embedded in ME culture that they take those values with them when they immigrate.You can still to this day see the effect of Ottoman rule in Southeast Europe thus all the conflict there.Why is West Europe so
apologist to Muslim crime on Christians. Once you move to a country you need to assimilate to laws and customs not the other way around.This is in general terms i am talking.I know there are exceptions to every rule.Our family has friends that the husband is Syrian and wife British and ever so often he will eat pork and drink rakija and he is a very nice man.And i will shut up now:)

[nullterm]

Ever get the feeling at some point there is going to be a backlash against Muslims? Not that I necessarily agree that they're "taking over the place" or anything. But at the very least, the perception that they are seems to be growing.

[Nansouty]

That's what they are doing... assimilating. But assimilation is a 2 way process. As tehy are transformed, so is the country integrating them. More importantly, I despise salafism as much as everyone here. But I think the best way to fight it is to allow a European, liberal tradition of Islam to grow. Islam is by no means the monolithic bloc some people perceive, it is even way more fractious than the western civilization. The current brand islamic "traditionalism " has its roots in the 1258 fall of Baghdad to the Mongols, which some imams explain as the wrath of God to punish these believers who had followed more liberal ways (like sufis)... European Islam may well be the undoing of Islam as it is practiced in traditional muslim lands.
If we lock ourselves in our lettle communautarian fortresses, AQ, and all other fearmongers, have won. They fear freedom, and a liberal faith, more than we fear them. I am confident in the power of the western values to live on, and bring much needed changes in the muslim world. But that won't be accomplished at the point of the sword.

[Player]

Sooo, muslims do?

Way more than Latinos anyway nor anyone else... Maybe except for Orthodox Jews.

Anyways, there is no point of warning Europeans about possible threats, it's their problem and not our (non-European) business.

Lets just wait and see... Who knows? Maybe Europeans are right. ;) But if not, like I said, it will be their problem.

Peace

[Kaapeli]

When Muslims reach a majority in an area they demand seperate Islamic rules and want to breakaway from host nation.

Why on earth would immigrants want to separate to form "Islamic nations" when that is what they are running away from to Europe?

And people can always demand whatever they like. The funny thing about democracy is that those demands are decided with by vote. I don't see any fundies reaching a majority large enough so that they could change the constitution (of any European nation or EU) that forbids "separate Islamic rules". You would need a 2/3 majority for that in most parliaments I think. Islamic fundies can't even get a single seat in the parliament of any European nation, nor even in France that has the largest muslim minority of Europe.


Why is West Europe so apologist to Muslim crime on Christians.

What crimes are you talking about specifically?

[INAT]

Ever get the feeling at some point there is going to be a backlash against Muslims? Not that I necessarily agree that they're "taking over the place" or anything. But at the very least, the perception that they are seems to be growing.

Well i don't know some part of est Europe are so liberal that they will do anything to show how tolerant they are to Islam when if it was the other ay around Christians would at worst not be around or live as second class citizens.

[LAH_Faust]

How do you suppose under 5% will turn into 75%?
I think people who say things like that haven't got a clue about the demographics of Europe.

And what if it did? Europe is somewhere around 80-90% christian but do you see a a christian theocracy here? No.
Religion doesn't run states and write laws in Europe, not christianity, not islam, not anything.

Well... considering a large good handful of European countries are having trouble replacing it's population (your average German family has 1.5 children) while the muslims are having no problem replacing those that die and then some.

Also, in reply to your "religion doesn't run states in Europe" let's remember the Crusades, the bull**** Ireland went through (still goes through, though it is calming down a little bit,) and a lad named Adolf.

And those that said gangs are more of a threat then islamic fundamentalism, let's remember 9/11/01, 7/7/05, 3/11/04 and Basayev's little spree in Russia.

[INAT]

Why on earth would immigrants want to separate to form "Islamic nations" when that is what they are running away from to Europe?

And people can always demand whatever they like. The funny thing about democracy is that those demands are decided with by vote. I don't see any fundies reaching a majority large enough so that they could change the constitution (of any European nation or EU) that forbids "separate Islamic rules". You would need a 2/3 majority for that in most parliaments I think. Islamic fundies can't even get a single seat in the parliament of any European nation, nor even in France that has the largest muslim minority of Europe.



What crimes are you talking about specifically?


What crimes where do i begin.The murder of Mr Van Gough.The I hate to point to this but it is a great example of Muslim crimes in Europe -Kosovo-Metohija.Killers of Serbs are never captured and prosecuted.Remember Paris a fews summers ago with the riots police could not contain those were Muslim immigrants.And I can go on.Areas around Srebrenica 4000+ Serbs weere murdered in the area before The RS army took the town.The town of Bratunac Naser Oric slaughtered thousands even on Orthodox Christmas he attacked but the western media never reported it .Here is the story of recent memorial services.RIP http://byzantinesacredart.com/blog/2007/07/srebrenica-serbs.html


I don't want to turn this into Muslim bashing but lets have both sides.One Albanian I remember said were will get Kosovo-Metohija with the ***** meaning the high birthrate as opposed to the low birth rate of Christians in all of
Europe.

[Litti]

Low birthrate comes with prosperity and change of attitudes. That is what happens to muslim immigrants eventually as well.

Obviously crimes have been committed but it is not really a big problem, because statistically they are not doing worse than Europeans from the same social and economical background.

Muslims are just like anyone else. Give them their own space and treat them with respect and they will be happy. Has worked rather well in Finland. European values are already doing the trick and liberal Islam is rising in the old continent as we speak, that will be the ultimate cure against fundamentalism. p-)

[Kaapeli]

What crimes where do i begin.The murder of Mr Van Gough.

Van Gough wasn't a christian. Actually he was somewhat anti-christian.
So not a good example of muslim crimes against christians.

His killer was caught and punished anyway.


The I hate to point to this but it is a great example of Muslim crimes in Europe -Kosovo-Metohija.Killers of Serbs are never captured and prosecuted.

Let's not make this into another Balkans flamewar.


Remember Paris a fews summers ago with the riots police could not contain those were Muslim immigrant.

Those youth riots had nothing to do with Islam or muslims.
Sure many of the participants were immigrants from ghettos but they weren't religious or ethnic riots. There reasons were socioeconomic.

[muttbutt]

If it makes any American worried about us feel better, the fastest growing religious movement in Europe is not Islam, it's Evangelical Christianity, it's shooting up at something like 15%+ year on year for the last decade

[Litti]

Besides, the religious people in USA are politically much more active than most of the muslims in Europe who are just trying to make a living. It is more likely that secularity comes under attack over there (if it already isnt constantly bombarded by nutters) when you consider how deeply religious their politicians are.

[INAT]

Van Gough wasn't a christian. Actually he was somewhat anti-christian.
So not a good example of muslim crimes against christians.

His killer was caught and punished anyway.



Let's not make this into another Balkans flamewar.



Those youth riots had nothing to do with Islam or muslims.
Sure many of the participants were immigrants from ghettos but they weren't religious or ethnic riots. There reasons were socioeconomic.

Well Van Gough was from a western Christian/Catholic country and so what that they captured the killer is was still a crime of Islam because Van gough offended Islam thats what the note stabbed onto his body said.

Second how is me pointing out Christian victims of Islamic fighters starting a Balkan flamewar and third the riots in Paris were caused my Arab and North African Muslim immigrants so you cannot say it had nothing to do with Islam.You wanted me to give you examples of Islamic crime on Christians.What about the Utah mall shooter he yelled Alluah akbar as he shot shoppers and what about th Fort Dix incident plot that was Islamic in nature.Why is it so taboo to call Islamic violence out by name instead apologists (like you maybe) try to paint it in a diffrent light.What about the school girls in Indonesia who were decapitated or Abu-Sayef in the Phillipines killing tourists.I mean these all have a common denominator the killers Islamic roots.I do not think it is fair to make excuses for Islamic violence
and say oh well that was just one isolated incidence or but this or but that.And i say this not becuase of the reaction Muslims got by the world public after 9/11 but becuase I was affected by this violent Islam before
the US chose to clash with them.

[Oggin]

Well, I have muslim friends, I have dated muslim girls in my time... they live, love, suffer and rejoicejust like we do. They bleed just as red too. Muslim populations here are well integrated... European countries are their homes now, just as it is "stock" Europeans'. I see them as my fellow countrymen. That this will cause some changes in European culture cannot be denied... but it has hardly remained the same over the course of the last century. Conversely, European Muslimes don't live in protected glasshouses... European culture can't help but deeply affect their religious practice and their faith. I am quite sure AlQaeda and other salafist rabbles are just as wary of peaceful integration into European societies as of US presence in the Middle East, as some day, European Muslims will speak out loud and denounce salafism as the garbage it really is.
Now, thsi doesn't mean there aren't any issues... Like in every population, you'll find morons and hotheads among European muslims too (integration is a bumpy process at times... ) but to say the truth, I am not more scared of tehm than I am of the neo fascist rabble here. Violent and vocal groups they may be, but they will remain a tiny minority as long as we keep our calm. If I may complete Burke's so often quoted maxim, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing or act precipitously and stupidly"


Spoken like a true french muslim. You talk about intergration? Well, firstly tell me why we have next to no Muslims serving in the Armed forces, explain why they seem to demand their own laws and religious police? Explain everything, or cant you? Its just like I said it isnt it?

[Oggin]

Besides, the religious people in USA are politically much more active than most of the muslims in Europe who are just trying to make a living. It is more likely that secularity comes under attack over there (if it already isnt constantly bombarded by nutters) when you consider how deeply religious their politicians are.

Alright Nut job. Then tell me why they are openly saying they will take over the UK? Tell me how, trying to change a countries laws is making a living? Its not! making a living is getting a decent job and keeping your gob shut and everything about you to yourself.

[Nansouty]

Spoken like a true french muslim. You talk about intergration? Well, firstly tell me why we have next to no Muslims serving in the Armed forces, explain why they seem to demand their own laws and religious police? Explain everything, or cant you? Its just like I said it isnt it?


Thanks for the compliment... where do you live? I met muslims everyday, and I don't see them begging for their own laws, or chariah here. In fact, I'd say they are sheltering from oppressive traditions of Islam in the West. All they ask for is some respect, to which, as our fellow countrymen, they are certainly entitled.
Regarding my religion, I'm taking the "irony" (well, let's be generous and call it that ) in your post... I am a Christian and Voltairian, and if certainly Voltaire would hate salafism, he would serve anti muslim bigotry its due just as well.

[INAT]

Alright Nut job. Then tell me why they are openly saying they will take over the UK? Tell me how, trying to change a countries laws is making a living? Its not! making a living is getting a decent job and keeping your gob shut and everything about you to yourself.


I agree to some of your comments.And not just the UK.

[Litti]

Alright Nut job. Then tell me why they are openly saying they will take over the UK? Tell me how, trying to change a countries laws is making a living? Its not! making a living is getting a decent job and keeping your gob shut and everything about you to yourself.You have to back up your accusation with something concrete. How many law changes have been made in the UK? How many fundamentalist politicians do you have? How many of them are trying to change your society?

[Kaapeli]

Well Van Gough was from a western Christian/Catholic country and so what that they captured the killer is was still a crime of Islam because Van gough offended Islam thats what the note stabbed onto his body said.

Under 40% of the Dutch are religiously affiliated and the Netherlands is officially a secular nation.


Second how is me pointing out Christian victims of Islamic fighters starting a Balkan flamewar and third the riots in Paris were caused my Arab and North African Muslim immigrants so you cannot say it had nothing to do with Islam.

The Paris riots were started by two kids getting killed and angry response by the ghetto community.
Violence was aimed against property, the police and some random bystanders, not against christians, muslims nor any ethnic group.

The French authorities investigated the riots and found no religious motives and majority of the rioteers were French citizens.

Now what I would like to know is how can these be described as "islamic crimes against christians"?
Let's say a person of nominally christian religion robs a bank without any religous motive, is this "a christian crime against the monetary system"?
I don't think so either.
To call something a religious hate crime needs to have a religious motivation.


You wanted me to give you examples of Islamic crime on Christians.

Please do.


What about the Utah mall shooter he yelled Alluah akbar as he shot shoppers and what about th Fort Dix incident plot that was Islamic in nature.
Why is it so taboo to call Islamic violence out by name instead apologists (like you maybe) try to paint it in a diffrent light.What about the school girls in Indonesia who were decapitated or Abu-Sayef in the Phillipines killing tourists.I mean these all have a common denominator the killers Islamic roots.I do not think it is fair to make excuses for Islamic violence
and say oh well that was just one isolated incidence or but this or but that.And i say this not becuase of the reaction Muslims got by the world public after 9/11 but becuase I was affected by this violent Islam before
the US chose to clash with them.

I thought we were talking about Europe here.
Anyway of course there have been acts of fundamentalist terrorism in Europe too but they have been always condemned by all, including the vast majority of the muslim community. I don't see how you can call that apologetic.

[Grimner]

Ever get the feeling at some point there is going to be a backlash against Muslims? Not that I necessarily agree that they're "taking over the place" or anything. But at the very least, the perception that they are seems to be growing.
I think there will be a backlash in my country in the not so distant future. I don't know anyone that thinks Swedish immigration laws are working. For example, Sweden is being flooded with Iraqis. Sweden alows more Iraqi refugees to stay than any other EU country. A 50% increase in people arriving is expected this year and is going to but even more strain on the welfare system. As things start to get worse for people in this country I'm certain that we are going to see a greatly increased support for both muslim and nationalist groups here.

[Litti]

Sweden is having problems with the amount of immigration (not with muslims per se), because others are not doing their part. Statistically Sweden is taking in more than anyone else eventhough they didnt invade any country by my recollection.

You would think that UK and USA would be more responsible, or atleast at the same level as Scandinavia, and take these refugees in, no? I guess it´s easier to destroy than to help. :roll:

[mas-36]

Its ironic how europeans are always telling us how things are in america...:roll:

....but on the other hand, it makes perfect sense for Americans to always tell Europeans how things are in Europe?

:bash:

[Litti]

It´s a shame that this wave of refugees is a strain to the Swedish economy. I wonder how many homes and how much education one unnamed country could have provided for them with 2 trillion dollars, the amount that has been wasted in the Iraq war, the same money that was actually used to destroy their homes so that we have to pay the bill.

Great work, just great work.

[PEMM]

Its good to live here nowhere, we dont have such problems.

[Nansouty]

It´s a shame that this wave of refugees is a strain to the Swedish economy. I wonder how many homes and how much education one unnamed country could have provided for them with 2 trillion dollars, the amount that has been wasted in the Iraq war, the same money that was actually used to destroy their homes so that we have to pay the bill.

Great work, just great work.

We're going off topic here...
What I really find disturbing, in this thread, is the assimilation of muslims and mainstream Islam to the most extreme forms of salafism... I will not dispute we have extremists in Europe, salafists or otherwise (hello Le Pen!), but they are till now a powerless lot. They bark loud, but all the terrorists attacks here are a small bite. I may sound cold hearted to say so (total deaths amount to several hundreds, I know) but damage to our societies has been minimal. I am quite willing to run that risk personally and keep my freedom and muslim friends free...

[joka]

Alright Nut job. Then tell me why they are openly saying they will take over the UK? Tell me how, trying to change a countries laws is making a living? Its not! making a living is getting a decent job and keeping your gob shut and everything about you to yourself.

There is no magical solution to this problem except for integrating Muslims, and other immigrants for that matter. Making sure that becoming a contributing and full member of society is a more attractive, and a real alternative than being seduced by this radical minority. One way of definitely alienating Muslims from society is running around yelling that Muslims are evil fascists that are out to dominate the world (Sure those Muslims exist, but the trick is to make sure as few Muslims as possible subscribe to this ideology). By doing that you're actually playing in to the hands of these radicals.

PS. Afoe (http://fistfulofeuros.net/) has a good piece on this subject.

[Ludipipo]

Stupid Europeans !!! :)

What else could you expect, from socialist/communist governments.
It will be up to hard men to cleane up the mess, if we survive climate change first. :roll:

[joka]

Stupid Europeans !!! :)

What is a smiley doing there after a statement like that? Also, can you name an European country that has a communist government?

[INAT]

There is no magical solution to this problem except for integrating Muslims, and other immigrants for that matter. Making sure that becoming a contributing and full member of society is a more attractive, and a real alternative than being seduced by this radical minority. One way of definitely alienating Muslims from society is running around yelling that Muslims are evil fascists that are out to dominate the world (Sure those Muslims exist, but the trick is to make sure as few Muslims as possible subscribe to this ideology). By doing that you're actually playing in to the hands of these radicals.

PS. Afoe (http://fistfulofeuros.net/) has a good piece on this subject.

Radical or not when they become the majority they will set up their own government institutions,not participate in host coutries politics and demand they be independent.And use viloence to achieve these means.
Has appeasing Islam so far worked?

[Bitogno]

Radical or not when they become the majority they will set up their own government institutions,not participate in host coutries politics and demand they be independent.And use viloence to achieve these means.
Has appeasing Islam so far worked?
Could you tell us where it happened ?

[martinexsquaddie]

there are more registered jedi in the UK than muslims

[Kippari]

there are more registered jedi in the UK than muslims

Oh, Lawd! ...I mean may the force be with us!

[khukuri]

Just Wow, a small miniority of a miniority is going to take over europe...

omg 111!!!1

[Bitogno]

Just Wow, a small miniority of a miniority is going to take over europe...

omg 111!!!1
Yes !! Minorities are dangerous !!!!

[hauptman]

I stopped after he mentioned the "German Shar'ia law". He should get his facts straight and try to understand what this verdict, he refers to, really says.

And after all, I don't see any threat from Muslims, burning down our houses and establishing a new Shar'ia style state. Pure hypocrisis from some far-right dumbasses.

[RSone]

Ok, i'll try to clarify a bit from a Dutch point of view.

The percentage of 45% of the populace being religious is wrong.
55% is religous
45% of those is affiliated with some kind of christian church.
Thus 10% is of a other religion
around 5% is islamic.

I have read some posts of people who bring up the Van Gogh murder, citing this as a example of crimes perpetrated by Islamic people. The killer, Mohammed buyeri, got a life sentence without any chance of parole(this includes a royal pardon) other muslim terrorists, like the Hofstad group( members were aprehended in the The Hague siege, amongst other operations conducted by the anti terrorist units) have for the largest part, recieved lengthy prison sentences of upwards of 15 years for relatively minor offences compared to the crime comitted by Buyeri.
This rise in foreign, non ex-colonial immigrants (i.e not Indonesian, Maluku, Surinamese or Antillian, who represent a generally very well integrated segment of Dutch society) has sparked a increase in rightish tendencies in (mostly) ethnic Dutch people, and thus, in politics. This resulted in very strict immigration laws and a increase in anti terroristic legislature.
Tolerance has long been a applauded attribute of the Dutch, but one should know that this tolerance has its borders. Cross it and you will have found a dangerous enemy, as for example, The Spanish Empire can testify.(we fought them for eighty years to get freedom of reiligion, and in gaining our independance, nearly brought the empire to it's knees)

Our society is aproaching a critical point, at times at faster pace, and at times at a slower pace. Foreign youths form the largest part of problem youths and Ethnic Dutch see foreign influence reaching into their daily lives and habits. I hope it does not reach a critical point of just plain racism and intolerance but it seems that way.

[Litti]

Just to correct you, 45% of the dutch people do not have a religious affiliation. And just because you belong to the church, it does not make you religious per se.

I belong to the state church in Finland but I am not religious, just like most of the people in this country.

The second generation of immigrants always has most problems (the youth), it´s natural. Once you get past that point, it´s business as usual.

[Lazy Lob]

The second generation of immigrants always has most problems (the youth), it´s natural. Once you get past that point, it´s business as usual.

Would you please expand on that.

[frenchy]

Yes !! Minorities are dangerous !!!!

Some of them.:roll:

I saw people from north africa, burning cars and a bus. I live in a suburb city called Bagnolet near Paris. Do you remember events in french suburbs ?

They're not all bad. But a lot of youngsters from muslim minority and soon or later main culture in france are troublemakers.

[RSone]

Our "gastarbeiders" (guestworkers) have been here for some time now, since the mid 60's I believe. Todays youth are not the "second generation" they're the third or even the fourth. Our govenrment just has had a crappy integration policy for quite some time. Which is remarkable, because their parents never caused too much trouble.
A bunch of moroccan youths once assaulted girls from my college in a local subtropical swimming pool, and the police cracked down on them pretty hard on them. Afterwards, one of the officers told me those kids were more afraid of how their parents would react than they were afraid of the police(and some of the officers were screaming so loud at them, you could hear it al the way trough the glass and for quite some distance outside)

(I edited my previous post about religion in Holland, it should now read that 55% is religious and 45% of those people are affiliated with a christian church)

[INAT]

Could you tell us where it happened ?


I sure can a little place called Kosovo-Metohija.And it was attempted in Bosna.

And of course Muslim minorities are not going to overrun Europe but when they become the majority in an area
Then things will change.One thing is clear Muslims live an easier life in Christian lands than Christians would in Muslim lands.I say would because in Muslim lands there are barely any Christians around. Through incrementalism
this change will take place in parts of Europe.

[Breakfast in Vegas]

It´s a shame that this wave of refugees is a strain to the Swedish economy. I wonder how many homes and how much education one unnamed country could have provided for them with 2 trillion dollars, the amount that has been wasted in the Iraq war, the same money that was actually used to destroy their homes so that we have to pay the bill.

Great work, just great work.

Are your immigrants Iraqi (I really don't know)... I always assumed that the immigrant problems in Scandinavia were with Somalis, Moroccans, Turks etc and largely due to:

1) need for immigrant labor in host country
2) liberal bleeding-heart immigration policies
3) immigrant workers "importing" the rest of their family

[CMNot]

Great work, just great work.

I'm sorry, did we force, nay even ask you to take them?

[Bitogno]

I sure can a little place called Kosovo-Metohija.And it was attempted in Bosna.

And of course Muslim minorities are not going to overrun Europe but when they become the majority in an area
Then things will change.One thing is clear Muslims live an easier life in Christian lands than Christians would in Muslim lands.I say would because in Muslim lands there are barely any Christians around. Through incrementalism
this change will take place in parts of Europe.
Sorry but as a matter of Kosovo it was Albanian Nationalists, the fact that they were muslim has nothing to do with they revolt. In addition Albanians Kosovars are a majority in Kosovo since the 15th century. To end with Kosovo I would say that before their revolt, as Muslims they had an harder life than Christians in that land.
About Bosnia it was the same except that at the end some Islamists came to help bosnians.

[Bitogno]

Some of them.:roll:

I saw people from north africa, burning cars and a bus. I live in a suburb city called Bagnolet near Paris. Do you remember events in french suburbs ?

They're not all bad. But a lot of youngsters from muslim minority and soon or later main culture in france are troublemakers.
In fact I was kidding about the minorities responsible of all the problems ( it seems I wasn't that clear ). Coming from Aulnay-Sous-Bois ( 93 ) what I saw is people from Africa ( all of it not only north ) and white people ( obviously not from Africa ) burning cars. The thing they have in common is the fact they live in the "banlieues" ( which means banishment place ), and when you live in such places it is hard even if you have diploma to find a work and be respected.

[foreward russia]

To keep it simple, whenever you see a crowd assaulting a single person in Munich for nothing. In 9 of 10 cases the attackers are Muslims, most often Turks.

[Kippari]

It's not so much about the religions, but the culture. Some Somalis here form aggressive posses and commit all kinds of small crimes, this however is not usually the problem with Turks or Tartars (Tartars have been here for over a century). Also Roma people tend to cause problems sometimes, because their way of life is usually a little different from ours ie. they dont' usually care much about school (many do however!). The social workers are trying to balance between integration and preserving the immigrants' cultures. Russian kids are sometimes pretty arrogant, but they are good people if you stay in terms with them. Far-Asians and Indians seldom cause any trouble because the are more willing to integrate to the system so that they can start working sooner.

[Litti]

Also Roma

I usually defend ethnic minorities but gippos operate on a whole other level.

[Mu-Meson]

I am frequently surprised at how many people can just ignore the signs. There are riots in Paris, preachers in Yorkshire calling for a Islamic Britain, judges in Germany citing Sharia law, no-go suburbs in Sweden and elsewhere, and yet people still want proof? If these things were happening in only one or two places then I could understand people saying that the threats are overblown. But they are happening everywhere. Can't you see a pattern or are you just being willfully blind?
As for the people saying that Islam will grow in Europe. Come on. I guess demographics are just too abstract to deal with on a day-to-day basis.


Some European cities, such as Marseille (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marseille) in France and Rotterdam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotterdam) in the Netherlands, now have Muslim populations of 25 percent. In others, like Paris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris), Brussels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels), London (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London) and Copenhagen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen), Denmark, the figure is in excess of 10 percent.[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Europe#_note-4) Moscow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow) is home to an estimated 1.5 million Muslims.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Europe#_note-5) Europe’s Muslim population (without Russia) has tripled over the last 30 years, to about 23 million, and experts predict it will double again by 2020. In 2005, EU had an overall net gain from international migration of +1.8 million people. This accounts for almost 85 percent of Europe’s total population growth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_growth) in 2005. Birth rates in Muslim communities in Europe are about three times higher than in European non-Muslim communities.[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Europe#_note-6)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Europe

Non-muslims families have one child, muslim families have 3. Who's populations do you think is going to grow? One will halve, the other will increase by 50% each generation. The means exponential change. ie very fast! To look at overall numbers is misleading because muslims aren't even distributed everywhere. They are concentrated. What will Europe do when a muslim majority city like Rotterdam in 25 years time democratically elects an Islamist, Sharia government? Heck, what will you do when you have 25%, 30%, 40% of a city burning from Islamist rioting?
Well, I guess you could do what you did when Paris burned. Blame yourselvess, blame the government, blame the social programs, blame the cops. Blame everyone but those responsible.
Finally, to those people who think that 2nd and 3rd generation muslims moderate over time. Wake up. The London bombers were all British-born.

[Bitogno]

The signs !!!
40's : the jewishs are going to control the world.
60's : the communists are going to control the world.
80's : the chineses are going to control the world.
21st century : the muslims are going to control the world.

Mel Gibson save us !!!!!

You should stop watching FoxNews crap. The riots in Paris had nothing to do with islam it has to do with relationship between police and people of certain places. The people calling for sharia law in Europe is a minority and 23 millions of muslims out of 494 millions of europeans is less than 5%.

[Mu-Meson]

Lol, I don't get the Fox channel on TV, I don't watch FoxNews, and I don't even go to Fox.com. I can't stand their style of journalism. I get my news from CNN and MSNBC. Hardly neo-con in their content.
And I see that you still ignore the realities of demographics. Dismissing the issue in one sentence, "23 millions of muslims out of 494 millions of europeans is less than 5%", is laughable. Its like reviewing a movie from one screenshot. Do you think that populations are static? By 2020 that 23 million will double. With less than 2 kids per family, the rest of Europes population will decline. Also, do you think muslims are spread out all over Europe like an even layer of butter on toast? Rotterdam, and Marseille are already 25%. By 2020 that will be over 50% as the non-muslims leave. What do you say about that?

[Nansouty]

2 things.
- Muslim birthrates are getting very similar to stock Europeans'
- Why would they leave their hometowns? It's a fantasy to think thay are threatened in any way. West European muslims partake in western values and have no intention of waging any kind of jihad here. You'll find nutjobs among them, of course, and some hooligans may hide behind a religious excuse, but the huge majority of muslims condemns them sternly.

[toki]

Also, do you think muslims are spread out all over Europe like an even layer of butter on toast? Rotterdam, and Marseille are already 25%. By 2020 that will be over 50% as the non-muslims leave. What do you say about that?

So what. Of course minorities are not equally spread. Look at the U.S. and A. 2nd: Demographics are impossible to tell for the next 50 years. THe german demographics changed last year. If this change will continue for the next 50 years we'll be overpopulated. See? Statistics and future statistics are more then vague and are not really helpful to prove your point. It's not that easy.

Now do you tell me why you care about Rotterdam? How many Europeans care about the latin population in southern California or Texas? Is it because you want to tell us how bad every muslim is? Sorry to burst your bubble, but last weekend i got ****faced with 2 muslim friends and a half spanish guy (Günes, Tolga and Daniel to be correct). Ooooh some drink alcohol and behave like we do. Most of the Morrocan and Turkish girls i know do not even wear a headscarf. Even though their parents are more or less conservative.

If you come up with numbers, please provide us with exact numbers of radicals and future radicals. I do not ignore the problems of largely immigrant neighbourhoods, but that are problems most immigrant communities have. Latin christian or muslim. And Sharia Law in Germany, oh well please someone post the link. It was maybe that single case of a judge that was a bit nuts and got corrected the next day. But hey, it sounds good and so it is implied in every damn post to prove something. BS. How many stonings have been reported in Europe with the milions of muslims? Not that living together is always easy, but this is getting a bit ridiculous.

The thing is, the same guys who complain about illegal latin/mexican immigrants in other threads say here that it's not so bad and harmless, "but... really the worst thing is Eurabia and stuff". Double standards. Tell me one European who cries about immigration in the U.S. (or north america). Btw speaking about Germany ("the heartland of Eurabia") the immigrants from Russia, eastern and south eastern Europe are the biggest group in the last ten years. Turks are living here from a big wave in the 60's. And Russian immigrants living in closed communities create the same problems as muslims living in closed communities. Integration fails sometimes. But that has not much to do with religion per se.

[Mu-Meson]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4070543.stm

No stonings yet. Honour killings. Maybe lots.

And in defense of demographics, do you suppose that there will be a sudden baby boom among native europeans? How about the Dutch, for one example.
http://www.cbs.nl/en-GB/menu/themas/bevolking/cijfers/nieuw/default.htm
The Dutch Bureau for Statistics (CBS) released a set of demographic projections for 2050 where the population is expected to remain at its current levels (16.8 million in 2050 compared to 16.4 million today, wow thats massive overpopulation, eh?)
But its composition will change dramatically. Today the non-Dutch component is 19% but that will increase to 29% according to the CBS. And that means people with one or both parents from outside the Netherlands. It doesn't count 2nd or 3rd gen immigrants.
However, that 71-29 division between locals and immigrants will especially differ by age, and location. Who knows. That split among working age (ie fighting age) could well be 50-50 or more with lots of retired old Dutch folk in the background.
For something that impossible to predict, you are awfully quick to dismiss it.

[toki]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4070543.stm

No stonings yet. Honour killings. Maybe lots.

And in defense of demographics, do you suppose that there will be a sudden baby boom among native europeans?

Honour Killings are a crime. Of course they exist. But the original post implied something like lawful acts, sharia. And to connect those cases to the whole muslim community makes me wonder if you ever lived around muslims. They are nutters and yes, extremists, but the numbers are not relly that extraordinary. In other places in the world more people get shot every day, then in most European cities per year.

And yes in fact there has been a baby boom this year in Germany which has had a notoriously low birth rate. And yes i bellieve that will change in the long run. And Muslims often times have one kid. The big cities in Germany had a plus of up to 21% of births in the first quarter of the year (compared to the years before, by German natives of course). Impossible to predict in the next 50 years.
German source, but you have to be believe me here. (http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article878461/Baby-Boom_in_Deutschlands_Staedten.html)

[timetraveller]

http://www.youtube.com/v/nI5WoXpmPiM



As i suspected it was uploaded by a Comedian .. lmfao


It's like watchin a scene from Rory Bremmer

[Aptrganga]

Honour Killings are a crime. Of course they exist.
And you haven't noticed yet the Muslims always get a cultural bonus resulting in mild punishment?


But the original post implied something like lawful acts, sharia.
You liberal imbecil should open your eyes: Judge Rohe "We are useing the rules of Sharia every day" (German)
http://www.bpb.de/themen/FE53LX,0,0,In_Deutschland_wenden_wir_jeden_Tag_die_Scharia_an.html
You liberals always change truth to make it look like everything is okay.


And to connect those cases to the whole muslim community makes me wonder if you ever lived around muslims.
Do you live around Muslims? Obviously not (except some westernized ones), so shut up.


They are nutters and yes, extremists, but the numbers are not relly that extraordinary. In other places in the world more people get shot every day, then in most European cities per year.
You do not have the merest clue what is going on in Germany - when have you been here the last time?
http://comment.independent.co.uk/columnists_a_l/johann_hari/article2496657.ece


And yes in fact there has been a baby boom this year in Germany which has had a notoriously low birth rate. And yes i bellieve that will change in the long run. And Muslims often times have one kid. The big cities in Germany had a plus of up to 21% of births in the first quarter of the year (compared to the years before, by German natives of course). Impossible to predict in the next 50 years.
German source, but you have to be believe me here. (http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article878461/Baby-Boom_in_Deutschlands_Staedten.html)
Many good skilled Germans leaving their homland, so do Brits and other Europans, they do so to escape PC and muslim violence.

...another German source, you should read a little, yet you liberals did not manage to bring that site down, labelling it as Nazi-hate site did no work since luckily some Jews support it :)
http://www.politicallyincorrect.de/

[tony6]

Finally, to those people who think that 2nd and 3rd generation muslims moderate over time. Wake up. The London bombers were all British-born.
Good point. We can clearly see from the London bomb attacks that their assimilation process has failed. It's just an illusion.

[toki]

And you haven't noticed yet the Muslims always get a cultural bonus resulting in mild punishment?
Mild punishment is a general tendency in German law. Do i like it? No.
German rapists get pretty mild punishments as well, compared to other countries. Still, do i like it? No


You liberal imbecil should open your eyes: Judge Rohe "We are useing the rules of Sharia every day" (German)
http://www.bpb.de/themen/FE53LX,0,0,In_Deutschland_wenden_wir_jeden_Tag_die_Scharia_an.html
You liberals always change truth to make it look like everything is okay.
Do you live around Muslims? Obviously not (except some westernized ones), so shut up.I live in NRW. My city (D) has around 16% foreigners, the area i live in probably above 10-20% Muslim. Above the German average. Where do you live?
Duisburg is 20 minutes from here. Ghettos are always bad, i live in a pretty mixed place. What about Russian immigrants. They're not muslims, still live in close knit communities and often times completely fail to integrate. Religious problem? No, social problem.
Would i want to send my kid to school with 80% muslims? Definitely not. But i went to elementary school with maybe 20% Muslims. It didn't hurt. It hardly creates unsolvable problems. "Few westernized"? What the **** do you know?


You do not have the merest clue what is going on in Germany - when have you been here the last time?
http://comment.independent.co.uk/columnists_a_l/johann_hari/article2496657.ece
All my life.


Many good skilled Germans leaving their homland, so do Brits and other Europans, they do so to escape PC and muslim violence.
They do escape everything, but i haven't heard of any one trying to live in Australia or the US, because Muslims are taking over. Get a life. My family is spread to different continents, Australia since 30 years, Hong Kong, US, England. The main reasons are economic and for career choices. And quite often just adventurousness and lack of sunshine in grey central Europe.


...another German source, you should read a little, yet you liberals did not manage to bring that site down, labelling it as Nazi-hate site did no work since luckily some Jews support it :)
http://www.politicallyincorrect.de/
Haha, you're German, right? Why do you call me a liberal? You should call me left. Unfortunately, i'm not even very left. Don't act as if you knew me. That smiley doesn't help there, Trottel.

[Bitogno]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4070543.stm
No stonings yet. Honour killings. Maybe lots.

When you quote an article read it, they say nothing about religion. In addition :

So what constitutes honour? Is this is a religious issue?
No. The world's major religions do not play a part in these killings - although many of the guilty have tried to justify their actions on religious grounds.
The key factors are cultural and generational divisions, the victim's refusal to toe a line and a reaction against a family or clan's self-proclaimed code or rules.
In that sense, honour killings are much more about male-dominated societies or communities that try to stop women taking their own decisions. In other words, the killers believe it is culturally acceptable for them to murder to preserve, in their mind, the good name of the family.
More recently, in the age of migration around the world, the murders have come where a family reacts violently to a son or daughter taking on the trappings of a western culture.
For instance, accusations of dishonour may emerge because someone from an older migrant generation remains utterly tied to the culture or code of their village - and fails to accept their children have been brought up in modern British society with all that goes with that.
Crucially, the number of people who believe that violence in the name of honour is justified is very, very small.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3829139.stm

[Niels]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4070543.stm

No stonings yet. Honour killings. Maybe lots.

And in defense of demographics, do you suppose that there will be a sudden baby boom among native europeans? How about the Dutch, for one example.
http://www.cbs.nl/en-GB/menu/themas/bevolking/cijfers/nieuw/default.htm
The Dutch Bureau for Statistics (CBS) released a set of demographic projections for 2050 where the population is expected to remain at its current levels (16.8 million in 2050 compared to 16.4 million today, wow thats massive overpopulation, eh?)
But its composition will change dramatically. Today the non-Dutch component is 19% but that will increase to 29% according to the CBS. And that means people with one or both parents from outside the Netherlands. It doesn't count 2nd or 3rd gen immigrants.
However, that 71-29 division between locals and immigrants will especially differ by age, and location. Who knows. That split among working age (ie fighting age) could well be 50-50 or more with lots of retired old Dutch folk in the background.
For something that impossible to predict, you are awfully quick to dismiss it.If they had made a similar projection during the 50's, they would have come to the conclusion we'd have about 30 million Dutchmen by now.
Birthrates don't stay the same for decades at a time. Current generation muslims wont have an arseload children like their parents, simply because it's not needed.

What do you say about that?
I say it's silly for you to worry so much about the purity of our demographics, considering your country consists almost completely of immigrants. At least I haven't seen any Hezbollah billboards (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=118330&highlight=) in my town yet.

[INAT]

Sorry but as a matter of Kosovo it was Albanian Nationalists, the fact that they were muslim has nothing to do with they revolt. In addition Albanians Kosovars are a majority in Kosovo since the 15th century. To end with Kosovo I would say that before their revolt, as Muslims they had an harder life than Christians in that land.
About Bosnia it was the same except that at the end some Islamists came to help bosnians.


Ok now i know you are making things up as you go along or you are misinformed.

[Aptrganga]

Mild punishment is a general tendency in German law.
Since there is no German law in force...


Do i like it? No.
Why not?


German rapists get pretty mild punishments as well, compared to other countries.
True, but Muslim rapists can appeal on their culture.


Still, do i like it? No
*shrug*


I live in NRW. My city (D) has around 16% foreigners, the area i live in probably above 10-20% Muslim. Above the German average. Where do you live?
FFM

Duisburg is 20 minutes from here. Ghettos are always bad, i live in a pretty mixed place.
German will be less and less in this mix.


What about Russian immigrants. They're not muslims, still live in close knit communities and often times completely fail to integrate.
They are Russians, they should be encouraged to go home.


Religious problem? No, social problem.
One cannot seperate ethnic and religious matters from social matters. That's teh basic mistake liberals do all teh time - and then wonder why nothing works.


Would i want to send my kid to school with 80% muslims? Definitely not.
Why not?
Soon you will have to move to the countrysite if you want to avoid that.


But i went to elementary school with maybe 20% Muslims. It didn't hurt. It hardly creates unsolvable problems. "Few westernized"? What the **** do you know?
It almost costed my life, not that I want to sound effeminate, but even a small Muslim minority causes much trouble.


All my life.
You haven't come around much.


They do escape everything, but i haven't heard of any one trying to live in Australia or the US, because Muslims are taking over. Get a life. My family is spread to different continents, Australia since 30 years, Hong Kong, US, England. The main reasons are economic and for career choices. And quite often just adventurousness and lack of sunshine in grey central Europe.
Sure, it is because of the sunshine and taxes mostly...
http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,446045,00.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=475875&in_page_id=1770&in_page_id=1770&expand=true#StartComments
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/15642/4,000-people-a-week-trying-to-leave-UK


Haha, you're German, right?
What would be the joke if I was?


Why do you call me a liberal?
Because you post liberal BS.


You should call me left.
Liberal, left, no difference.


Unfortunately, i'm not even very left.
Unfortunately?

Don't act as if you knew me. That smiley doesn't help there, Trottel.
I do not act as if i would know you. Liberals do not differ from country to country.

[Telmar]

Good point. We can clearly see from the London bomb attacks that their assimilation process has failed. It's just an illusion.

Do you think it is possible to deduct such things from the actions of some individuals?

Do criminals serving jail sentences in your country illustrate the collapse of your society or plainly the fact that thay have bad individual instincts and misjudgment?

[toki]

Since there is no German law in force...
Ok, we have no German law. So, we should stop discussing.


Why not?
stupid question.


True, but Muslim rapists can appeal on their culture.
BS


*shrug* FFM
German will be less and less in this mix.
If you think so.


They are Russians, they should be encouraged to go home. They're Russlanddeutsche. I do not really care what they are, as long as they integrate and speak German.


One cannot seperate ethnic and religious matters from social matters. That's teh basic mistake liberals do all teh time - and then wonder why nothing works. So what do Russian immigrants to do with Muslim problems?


Why not?
Soon you will have to move to the countrysite if you want to avoid that. I won't. Düsseldorf is a nice place and will only get better in the next ten years. You're really scared, maybe you should run.


It almost costed my life, not that I want to sound effeminate, but even a small Muslim minority causes much trouble.Did they breath your oxygen?
Oh ok, someone in my school beat me up, so we have to get rid of Muslims in this country. I had my fights in my childhood. And didn't always win. That's life. Maybe you should have pulled an "Anzeige".


You haven't come around much.
I have. My residence though has always been in Germany. Family alone is from 5 countries. Stayed overseas, even worked there, traveled all of Europe including Russia. Northern Africa as well.

Sure, it is because of the sunshine and taxes mostly...
http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,446045,00.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=475875&in_page_id=1770&in_page_id=1770&expand=true#StartComments
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/15642/4,000-people-a-week-trying-to-leave-UK
What would be the joke if I was?
Because you post liberal BS.
You want me to label you. OK, you're just a fear monger.


Liberal, left, no difference.
Not in the German language. Liberal in German translates to Libertarian.


Unfortunately?
I do not act as if i would know you. Liberals do not differ from country to country.
You pulled the card, "look, Jewish people support this website, I'm no Nazi." I didn't label you, i'm just saying you're a nutter.

[Russian_dude]

Actually the Russian Germans are Germans and they failed to integrate into the Russian society too.

[pacifist]

deleted message

[pacifist]

deleted message

[toki]

Actually the Russian Germans are Germans and they failed to integrate into the Russian society too.

I didn't want to derail this into a Russian thread. Pointed out immigrant problems do not equal islam. The problem is, the "Russian Germans" came in milions in a short time and the whole thing created a mess in certain places. Most do not speak a single word of German, when they arrive.

[Aptrganga]

Ok, we have no German law. So, we should stop discussing.
Why should his simple statement prevent us from discussing?


stupid question.
Can't you give an answer?


BS
What? Didn't you read that article saying parts of Sharia already is in force here?

„Besondere Anschauungen und Wertvorstellungen, denen der Täter wegen einer Bindung an eine fremde Kultur verhaftet ist, dürfen bei der Beurteilung der Gesamtumstände des Einzelfalls nicht ausser Betracht bleiben."

„Special views and moral concepts the defendant inherits due to his connection to a foreign culture may not be ignored by judgement about the whole circumstances of the single case.“Would you be a smart boy you would look for facts before posting, you make it to easy for me to refuete you all the time:
Kulturbonus für pakistanischen Eifersuchtsmörder

Weil er aus Eifersucht seine Ehefrau mit einer Kordel erdrosselt hat, muss ein 32 Jahre alter Mann fünf Jahre in Haft. Das Landgericht Frankfurt blieb mit seinem Urteil am Mittwoch hinter dem Antrag der Verteidigung zurück.

(Culture bonus for Pakistani murderer. He murdered his wife in Frankfurt and will be jailed for 5 years. The offender was in a special psychic condition since his wife lived the Western culture.)
http://forum.politik.de/forum/showthread.php?t=180156
http://www.akte-islam.de/3.html

Honour murder no longer is honour murder but honour manslaughter - this means milder punishment due to cultural customs.
http://www.politikforen.de/showthread.php?t=47909



If you think so.
I think so because it is like that, very simple.


They're Russlanddeutsche.
They are Russians mostly.


I do not really care what they are, as long as they integrate and speak German.
That integration babbling is worthless. Germany is the land for Germans.


So what do Russian immigrants to do with Muslim problems?
Nothing, they rather help to solve it since they dare to fight back and defend themselves against Muslim aggression.


I won't. Düsseldorf is a nice place and will only get better in the next ten years. You're really scared, maybe you should run.
LOL boy - you can take your mouth full because mommy cares for you. Just get an own life, make some explorations. Learn what is going on and you will see not everything is this nice like your liberal media reports.


Did they breath your oxygen?
You ran yout of arguments pretty soon - now comes the typical leftist trolling.


Oh ok, someone in my school beat me up, so we have to get rid of Muslims in this country.
Stabbing, robbery, harrassing is normal. And it is not the Russians, it isnot the Hungarians, French, Spanish, Poles etc, but Muslims from Turkey and Morocco mostly.
One time e.g. they pushed a girl into a corned and pissed on her so she was drenched in urine. School leader and techers did their best to sweep that under the carpet.


I had my fights in my childhood. And didn't always win. That's life. Maybe you should have pulled an "Anzeige".
I did, I was blamed for attacking them. I mean, it is logical I attack many foreigners and run backwards in their knive you know. Police here does not dare to investigate against Muslims often enough, this only means trouble and can end your career.
Berlin's police vice-commander openly admitted he no longer lets his officers patrol certain ares since he does not want to risk their health. Only when urgently required they come to these areas. Who the habitants are is everyone's guess.


I have. My residence though has always been in Germany. Family alone is from 5 countries. Stayed overseas, traveled all of Europe including Russia. Northern Africa as well.
Wonderful - yet you have no clue what is going on.


You want me to label you. OK, you're just a fear monger.
Big internt hero has spoken. Mommyyyy..


Not in the German language. Liberal in German translates to Libertarian.
I studied Latin, I do not need your lessons.
Liberals are lefties, that basic fact does not change. (except Liberal-nationals)


You pulled the card, "look, Jewish people support this website, I'm no Nazi." I didn't label you, i'm just saying you're a nutter.
Why can Jews be no Nazis?
http://www.zionists.com/zionism/zionism.jpg
http://www.zionists.com/

I said if Jews would not support that page (PI) it would be closed since it shows the so-called integration of Muslims failed.
Did you ever hear of Hendryk Broder or Ralph Giordano? Latter one survived NS Germany and is now blamed to be a Nazi because he does not support the islamication.

[toki]

LOL boy - you can take your mouth full because mommy cares for you. Just get an own life, make some explorations. Learn what is going on and you will see not everything is this nice like your liberal media reports.
I live my own life since 10 years. Again, this is the internet, don't try to act as if you know me. And that being said, staying in D wasn't meant as a joke. Just few alternatives in Germany, all big cities.
K, HH maybe B.


I studied Latin, I do not need your lessons.
Liberals are lefties, that basic fact does not change. (except Liberal-nationals)
Have my Latinum as well, but it doesn't really help you here. More history. Liberals are one of the reason the German Nationstate was found. Read up on Liberalism. You do not make any sense. But we're mixing too many discussions here anyway. Leftists are socialists and if you want communists. Liberalism is quite the opposite. Smartarse. When Americans use the term they
create their own terminology, which relates to the american political system. Even though they might as well have forgotten, what it actually means.


Germany is the land for Germans.

Forgot that one. I wonder where you plan to live in the future. Utopia? Sorry to burst your bubble, tell me about a country with a single ethnicity. Maybe you should apply to live there, if they take you. So go to Neuschwabenland and leave us for good. You live in a dream world, a twisted one. Und Tschüss.

[Bitogno]

Ok now i know you are making things up as you go along or you are misinformed.

Maybe you are misinformed :

Let's go to Wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanians_in_Kosovo

And : http://samvak.tripod.com/pp56.html

[Aptrganga]

I live my own life since 10 years. Again, this is the internet, don't try to act as if you know me. And that being said, staying in D wasn't meant as a joke. Just few alternatives in Germany, all big cities.
K, HH maybe B.
This is the internet and you never stay on toppic but try to derail the discussion. You claimed Sharia is not used here. I proved it is done everyday. You did not reply on that. You claimed Muslims do not get a cultural bonus in court, I proved the opposite and you say no word to that. That fact is way more interesting than were you live.


Have my Latinum as well, but it doesn't really help you here.
Latinum does not help translating/verifying Latin words. Okay.


More history. Liberals are one of the reason the German Nationstate was found. Read up on Liberalism. You do not make any sense. But we're mixing too many discussions here anyway.

"Germany is the heartstone of Europe, physically and morally. All the burdens of Europe are poured into its lap and it is constantly atoning by its suffering not only for its own sins, but for the sins of all other nations. Can we hope for a revolution in this unhappy Germany? The liberal leaders are all in exile and those who remain behind have lapsed into their former state of contended servitude. It remains therefore the task of the liberal Germans in America to propagate the American World State in Germany itself." The New Rome; or, the United States of the World - 1853The liberals driven out here after 1849 started the infestion of USA - sadly this pestilence came back here.
Anyway, I am well aware there were and are national-liberals (-libertarians), but they are a tiny minority.


Leftists are socialists and if you want communists. Liberalism is quite the opposite. Smartarse. When Americans use the term they
create their own terminology, which relates to the american political system. Even though they might as well have forgotten, what it actually means.
So in Germany liberals belong to the right-wing? Boy, don't be kidding me.
Liberals i.e. liberal democrats incorporated marxism - so there can't be no significant difference between liberals and commies.


Forgot that one.
Why? Because you say so?


I wonder where you plan to live in the future. Utopia?
Currently it is an utopia to establish democracy and the rule of law. True. But the wind is changing slowly.


Sorry to burst your bubble, tell me about a country with a single ethnicity.
You do not burst bubbles, of course there are no countries with a single ethnicity anymore - that's why we have these problems. That's why it is crucial to establish law and order and to end colonailization of our countries.


Maybe you should apply to live there, if they take you.
I do not ask for permission to gain my own homeland back - no matter you like it or not.
More and more Europeans are fed up - yet they are too coward to speak up, but just wait. Wind is changing.


So go to Neuschwabenland and leave us for good. You live in a dream world, a twisted one. Und Tschüss.
Just wait. Future will hold some unpleasant surprises for you.

[pacifist]

Religion is bull****.

[Fuschimuschi]

I have enough of this fear-mongering.
I live in a neighbourhood that consists of 80% immigrants, the vast majority of them muslim.
I feel safe and and don't even 10% of the women even wear a scarf, most even wear short skirts in summer. *gasp*

More than 50% of my neighbours are Turkish, more than 50% of my friends are either of Arab or Turkish origin and none of them are a danger to Germany or my beliefs, actually I wouldn't mind if more people were as hardworking and helpfull as them.

The ones that don't behave well or have radical views are just so much louder and eye-catching than the moderate ones.

[pacifist]

A few generalisations? Surely you jest :D

I had a good laugh with my muslim friend watching this wacko.

http://www.mindhacks.com/blog/files/2005/11/tinfoil_test.jpg

That tinfoil hat don´t stop us from reading your mind.

[Kippari]

Religion is bull****.
How nice of you to contribute to this topic with your overwhelmingly informative reply. Religion ain't bull**** for fanatic radicals.
Crawl back to your hole.:bash:

[pacifist]

How nice of you to contribute to this topic with your overwhelmingly informative reply. Religion ain't bull**** for fanatic radicals.
Crawl back to your hole.:bash:

:roll:

Do i owe you something? What kind of contribution do you except?

[toki]

I do not ask for permission to gain my own homeland back - no matter you like it or not.
Go stick your rethoric up your arse.


More and more Europeans are fed up - yet they are too coward to speak up, but just wait. Wind is changing. Just wait. Future will hold some unpleasant surprises for you.
Wind is changing and unpleasant surprise for me, oh i get your point now.
Tell me about your plans to regain the fatherland. Speak up: KLARTEXT. I see, Neuschwabenland was meant as a joke, though you kinda like the idea. Go home kid and jerk off to your Blut and Boden Utopia. But be careful when you step out of the door in the meantime, FFM is dangerous. Do you actually leave the door?

Btw the founding fathers of the U.S. were liberals. Liberalism in its true meaning.

[Kippari]

:roll:

Do i owe you something? What kind of contribution do you except?

Something more than pointless one-liners. Try act more civilized, please. Don't post if you haven't got anything better to say.:| If you keep posting replys like that, I really don't think that your stay in this forum will be a long one.

[haze99]

INCORRECT Toki! The US founding fathers were not liberals, they were Christians. If you don't think so, read their autobiographies! Was the USA perfect from its outset, no however we have made substancial improvements!

[foreward russia]

German blood reflux from the east came just in time for us, but wasn't that much to hold up demographic decline. Yes, many of the so called Spätaussiedler are reluctant to speak German and failed integration, but you have to keep in mind that they are first generation. They are called Russian and thus often resign and try to be what they are supposed to be -Russians. Speak Russian, dress Russian, behave Russian, listen to Russian music playing load eneough to shatter a whole block, perfect wannabe immitation of a Russian Gangster stereotype.
You have also to take into account that ppl who speak Russian can also be real Russians or much more likely Jews form Russia. There is quite plenty of them as they can immigrate to Germany without much restrictions because of the past. And getting welfare in Germany is much more alluring than holding your ass into the line of fire in the Golan Hights.

Beside of that the previous waves of Russia Germans integrated quite well. You can't even tell a difference between them and indigenious Germans. Well maybe there is one in their mind set. They are not afraid to speak up and defend themselves against muslim aggression. Most indigenious Germans are too intimidated and affraid to be called Nazis if they speak up or against a foreigner, and never ever dare to hit back.

I'm glad that Russia Germans are here in Germany, maybe we can learn a lesson from them.

[muttbutt]

INCORRECT Toki! The US founding fathers were not liberals, they were Christians. If you don't think so, read their autobiographies! Was the USA perfect from its outset, no however we have made substancial improvements!
I think he means "Liberals" in a European sense, the American definition especially now, is not what we would call "liberals"

[toki]

INCORRECT Toki! The US founding fathers were not liberals, they were Christians. If you don't think so, read their autobiographies! Was the USA perfect from its outset, no however we have made substancial improvements!


I think he means "Liberals" in a European sense, the American definition especially now, is not what we would call "liberals"
It's wikipedia, but you'll find those definitions everywhere:

Classical liberals emphasize free private enterprise, individual property rights, laissez-faire economic policy, and freedom of contract, and opposes the welfare state. Classical liberals support equality before the law, but hold that economic inequality, arising from competition in the free market, does not justify wealth redistribution by governments.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal

The modern Liberal Party in Germany (FDP) for example concentrates on those principles. To call leftists Liberal is actually nonsense. You may call them social Liberals. But the word has too many sub meanings. I complained, that the German guy threw around with "Liberal", when in Germany it is more closely knit to the Liberal Party, which means classic Liberalism, free enterprise etc. The oppossite of Socialism. Liberals are neither left nor right in this definition. And in the same way the founding fathers were Liberals, because at that time they could only be described as classic Liberals. Not social Liberals and obviously not "leftists".

[muttbutt]

Yep thats pretty much it, just for example, we have a party here called the Progressive democrats, to an American they sound socialist if not even further left, while in reality they are a right-wing market conquers all what poor lot that would make the US Republicans look like pinkos...just the way we have things on this side of the pond

[Aptrganga]

Go stick your rethoric up your arse.
Are you getting nervous? Where are your arguments?


Wind is changing and unpleasant surprise for me, oh i get your point now.
Yes indeed, more and more people are fed up with that corrupt liberal government.


Tell me about your plans to regain the fatherland. Speak up: KLARTEXT.
Well, since you are a leftie and no patriot the meaning of fatherland is meaningless.


I see, Neuschwabenland was meant as a joke, though you kinda like the idea.
I have no freakin' idea what this Neuschwabenland is - I googled and only found Nazi crap with UFOs and such. You're a freak.


Go home kid and jerk off to your Blut and Boden Utopia.
Why? I rather help to destroy the multi-culti utiopia.
BTW - would you tell an Israeli defending his home land the same? That he should give up his soil and, let's say, move to Nevada?


But be careful when you step out of the door in the meantime, FFM is dangerous. Do you actually leave the door?
Thank's for your concern, I am neither a dhimmi nor a liberal weak-****, I can defend myself.


Btw the founding fathers of the U.S. were liberals. Liberalism in its true meaning.
I know, and?

As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion...http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/diplomacy/barbary/bar1796t.htm

[toki]

Are you getting nervous? Where are your arguments?

Yes indeed, more and more people are fed up with that corrupt liberal government.

Well, since you are a leftie and no patriot the meaning of fatherland is meaningless.

I have no freakin' idea what this Neuschwabenland is - I googled and only found Nazi crap with UFOs and such. You're a freak.

Why? I rather help to destroy the multi-culti utiopia.
BTW - would you tell an Israeli defending his home land the same? That he should give up his soil and, let's say, move to Nevada?

Thank's for your concern, I am neither a dhimmi nor a liberal weak-****, I can defend myself.

I know, and?
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/diplomacy/barbary/bar1796t.htm

No, Neuschwabenland is a territory in the Antarctica "annexed" by the Reich.

I'm not going into this quote every line thing. You're a xenophobic Fearmonger. Go on with your agenda in the future for all i care. Plan your own ethnic cleansing for all i care. You must be very frustrated by now. This will not change in the future. I do not live in Utopia, i live in what is now Germany with its weaknesses and strentghs, you live in a Blut und Boden Phantasy, which will never happen. Oh and good luck in changing a global development, mobile societies and turning down the Bundesrepublik and the EU.
Just admit it, the FRG is your enemy. Btw you misunderstand Patriotism with a wishing for an ethnicly cleansed Fatherland. Too bad for you.

Oh, and now you're the tough guy, defending yourself against the islamic hordes on the streets. Good luck with it, Jerk. And now go eff yourself, Troll.

Edit: To end on a proper level:
Where did i say i agree with every Multi-Culti-Immigration policy? I put up the point where not only muslims, but sometimes other groups fail to integrate. And then i added "i don't care that they're Russian as long as they integrate". Some really do, others don't. You put the "Multi Culti Utopia" in my mouth. The degree of it is the factor. YOU on the other hand only want t live in an ethnically clean state. Which is
absolutely backwards IMHO. You do not shy away to admit it, and so i couldn't care less calling you a Troll.

Finito. Reply if you want. I won't.

[Breakfast in Vegas]

I have enough of this fear-mongering.
I live in a neighbourhood that consists of 80% immigrants, the vast majority of them muslim.
I feel safe and and don't even 10% of the women even wear a scarf, most even wear short skirts in summer. *gasp*

More than 50% of my neighbours are Turkish, more than 50% of my friends are either of Arab or Turkish origin and none of them are a danger to Germany or my beliefs, actually I wouldn't mind if more people were as hardworking and helpfull as them.

The ones that don't behave well or have radical views are just so much louder and eye-catching than the moderate ones.

I live in a German city with about 30% immigrants, a lovely concoction of Turks, Moroccans and Russians, with a dash of Polish, Africans, Croats, Serbs and Kosovo Albanians to complete the mix.

Obviously young men between 15-25 of any social group are going to have the most disrespectful and outlandish behavior.

By far the worst in terms of this behavior, particularly in terms of respecting the law, property of others and the state and behavior towards women, are the Turks and Moroccans. I personally believe religion is a deciding factor in this, as is the gang mentality that seems to accompany ethic minorities in any country. Like or not though, that's Germany's future and integration is the only hope of creating a positive future.

Positively speaking however, most 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants are fairly integrated on some economic levels, on other levels however, particularly social behavior, integration seems regrettably a long way away.

My wife, a German, teaches kids from 7-12 grade and is much, much more pessimistic regarding integration than I am. She absolutely despises most foreign male youth due to their behavior at school.... and genuinely feels sorry for the often very bright Turkish girls at her school who are being "sold off" and sent back to Turkey in arranged marriages just after they finish "gymnasium", which is the university prep high school level in Germany.

[pacifist]

Oh, Lawd! ...I mean may the force be with us!

Pointless one-liner.

[pacifist]

Europe woulld have less trouble if we´d take our immigrants from far-east.

We´d get along better with Chinese and south-east asians. They´re hardworking, intelligent don´t expect handouts and don´t start any riots.

Just ask the french.

[Bitogno]

Europe woulld have less trouble if we´d take our immigrants from far-east.

We´d get along better with Chinese and south-east asians. They´re hardworking, intelligent don´t expect handouts and don´t start any riots.

Just ask the french.
As a French I can say that in addition Chinese never die.
First generation people are always hardworking, it is the 2nd and 3rd generation of whatever origin people that have problem. Because they are angry by the fact that they are rejected by France and by the country of their parents. They see every day their hardworking parents getting their identity controled because of their color not because of their behavior, they hear every day "a French of xxxx origin" when they are simply French. When they have diploma and try to work honestly they are received by "hum.... We are sorry but the place is filled" and most of the time that's not true.
Chinese of the first generation are maybe secretive but it changes whith next generations.

[Russian_dude]

I didn't want to derail this into a Russian thread. Pointed out immigrant problems do not equal islam. The problem is, the "Russian Germans" came in milions in a short time and the whole thing created a mess in certain places. Most do not speak a single word of German, when they arrive.

Many Volga Germans did not speak a word of Russian too.

[Kippari]

Pointless one-liner.

Heh, well that was a response to a previous post and it was an attempt (I admit a bad one at that) to be humoristic. A bit different from stating that "religion is bull****"?:)



Europe woulld have less trouble if we´d take our immigrants from far-east.

We´d get along better with Chinese and south-east asians. They´re hardworking, intelligent don´t expect handouts and don´t start any riots.

Just ask the french.

While I partially agree, I still find it kinda racist. For example Turkish, Lebanonese and Indian immigrants work hard, atleast here. The problem is mainly with the Arabs and Somalis, who either refuse to integrate or are unable to do that.

[haze99]

There are Somali's in Finland?! When did this happen? Plus, this goes out to all Scandanavians, why have you taken in all these people? When did you obligate yourselves to saving world?
Arabs too, like from Saudi Arabia? Or are you refering to the general "Arab" as mentioned in the Western media? (Which means anyone from the Middle East!)
What I find astounding is that some European countries continue to allow anyone and everyone into their land. Then are shocked when their countrymen are not standing in the alley throwing them flowers upon their arrival. Personally, I tire of the Western Europeans continued low self-worth in regards to immigration. Question, why didn't the Somali's go to Kenya, Yemen or the UAE? (Wouldn't that be closer to home? Wouldn't those nations have more in common with thier homeland?)
Why hasn't there been an influx of French, Belgian, German, Swedish or Finns to Indonesia? Or Qatar? Or Algeria? Turkey? Or say, Cambodia? I would think Somalia would be the up and coming place to establish a business? Property must be cheap! (Near pennies in cost, mind you!) Now since the place is half-way stable? Thanks to the Ethiopia! Nevermind, I know why Europeans are not immigrating East or South. Many of those countries aren't as tolerant, diverse or promote "multi-culturalism".
PS-it is not racist to maintain your way of life or ethnic background.
(Just look at the Middle East and Asia.)

[pacifist]

Heh, well that was a response to a previous post and it was an attempt (I admit a bad one at that) to be humoristic. A bit different from stating that "religion is bull****"?:)




While I partially agree, I still find it kinda racist. For example Turkish, Lebanonese and Indian immigrants work hard, atleast here. The problem is mainly with the Arabs and Somalis, who either refuse to integrate or are unable to do that.

I do have anti-religious bias, but that´s not the same as being racist. Racist is a word used too often and because of that it has lost it´s signifigance.

I don´t have any negative experiences from having contact with immigrants, quite the contrary. I just hope that they have respect for our values when they come to live in our countries and don´t expect us to give them privileges based on their religious faith. They should keep their religious beliefs personal and not ever try to impose it on our societies.

[pacifist]

There are Somali's in Finland?! When did this happen? Plus, this goes out to all Scandanavians, why have you taken in all these people? When did you obligate yourselves to saving world?
Arabs too, like from Saudi Arabia? Or are you refering to the general "Arab" as mentioned in the Western media? (Which means anyone from the Middle East!)
What I find astounding is that some European countries continue to allow anyone and everyone into their land. Then are shocked when their countrymen are not standing in the alley throwing them flowers upon their arrival. Personally, I tire of the Western Europeans continued low self-worth in regards to immigration. Question, why didn't the Somali's go to Kenya, Yemen or the UAE? (Wouldn't that be closer to home? Wouldn't those nations have more in common with thier homeland?)
Why hasn't there been an influx of French, Belgian, German, Swedish or Finns to Indonesia? Or Qatar? Or Algeria? Turkey? Or say, Cambodia? I would think Somalia would be the up and coming place to establish a business? Property must be cheap! (Near pennies in cost, mind you!) Now since the place is half-way stable? Thanks to the Ethiopia! Nevermind, I know why Europeans are not immigrating East or South. Many of those countries aren't as tolerant, diverse or promote "multi-culturalism".
PS-it is not racist to maintain your way of life or ethnic background.
(Just look at the Middle East and Asia.)

Lot of somalis came to Finland in the early 1990´s as refugees.

Arabs in Finland are propably just immigrants that moved here to work at some point.

[Nansouty]

A very interesting article in the Financial Times :

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6be824ca-51a6-11dc-8779-0000779fd2ac.html


Radical muslims are just a minority... most are chiefly concerned with "bread and butter" issues, just like ( almost ) everyone else. Some very good points too on the French 2005 riots. They are put nicely in perspective.

[Bitogno]

A very interesting article in the Financial Times :

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6be824ca-51a6-11dc-8779-0000779fd2ac.html


Radical muslims are just a minority... most are chiefly concerned with "bread and butter" issues, just like ( almost ) everyone else. Some very good points too on the French 2005 riots. They are put nicely in perspective.

Excellent article. Thanks a lot. At least someone that knows what he talks about.

[IronFinn]

Lot of somalis came to Finland in the early 1990´s as refugees.

and even it is said that it is a custom over there to send their young men to safety from a civil war I still don´t get it. Shouldn´t these men be out there fighting the civil war and women, children and elderly people be those refugees :roll:.
Btw, now when the situation has settled down there why aren´t these people going back home?

[Kippari]

I do have anti-religious bias, but that´s not the same as being racist. Racist is a word used too often and because of that it has lost it´s signifigance.

Yep, but taking people in from Far-East only would just further the division between us and the Middle-Easterners.




I don´t have any negative experiences from having contact with immigrants, quite the contrary. I just hope that they have respect for our values when they come to live in our countries and don´t expect us to give them privileges based on their religious faith. They should keep their religious beliefs personal and not ever try to impose it on our societies.

Agreed. However, atleast for the Somalis, they probably don't have any information about our country or our values when they first arrive. They have culturally next-to-nothing similarity with us and should not expected to do so, because they are refugees not quest workers. Some of them just can't handle the difference, so they form gangs and do the shyte they've been doing in wherever they came from. Those will be send back to their original countries.

[Kippari]

and even it is said that it is a custom over there to send their young men to safety from a civil war I still don´t get it. Shouldn´t these men be out there fighting the civil war and women, children and elderly people be those refugees :roll:.
Btw, now when the situation has settled down there why aren´t these people going back home?

Duh, would you like to go back to live in poverty while you could live here sucking from the welfare-system.:)
Hopefully atleast their kids will get a job. It's good that we don't have the same immigration system as Sweden.

[haze99]

Nice, I like the classical liberal definition you listed. However, here in the USA the party that currently has been named liberal, would not meet that definition. For they do not champion those ideals nor do they speak in those terms. I would classify them as Neo-Marxist, not liberal. (Now some third-party folks could be called liberal. For they meet such a criteria.)
I don't see Islam taking over Europe, though it will influence decisions made there. And you will incorparate it into a European-religion that will come forth in the next decade.
Yes IronFinn, it seems that the Finns have handle their immigration wisely. Where as the Swedes have operated with alturistic motives. Which have caused them more grief than they care to admit. It is not racist to maintain your nation's identity, its heritage. Nor is it racist to maintain your living standards. Now if you pick and choose who comes to your nation based upon skin color, then you would be racist. (So Europeans, cease with self-debasement on this!)
For the nay-sayers here, if you invite some one to your apartment or home. Do you expect them to respect your property? Do you expect them to obey rules you have in your home? Or do you let them run amok, doing as they please? I think not!