Dutch soldier dies in Iraqi attack

[seruriermarshal]

Sad message

Dutch soldier dies in Iraqi attack

THE HAGUE, (AFP) - A Dutch soldier died overnight after being wounded in a grenade attack in the south Iraqi town of Samawa, the Dutch defense ministry said in a communique.


The death was the first to hit the Dutch contingent in Iraq (news - web sites).


Another Dutch soldier was wounded in the attack which happened Monday around 1750 GMT on a Samawa bridge.


"One of the seriously injured died from his wounds after he was taken to the Dutch base at Camp Smitty," the ministry said.


An Iraqi police officer had said earlier that a passing cyclist threw a grenade at a four-man Dutch patrol in the centre of the town, 270 kilometres (170 miles) from Baghdad.


Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende, who is currently on a visit overseas, reacted with "horror" to news of the death, his press department said.


He was to cut short his trip and return to the Netherlands as quickly as possible.


"With his 1,300 colleagues or so, the killed soldier had come to Iraq to send a sign of hope to the population," the press department quoted the prime minister as saying.


Defense Minister Henk Kamp, who is also outside the country, will also return earlier than planned.






REGIMENTAL PRAYER

Almighty, merciful, and loving Father,
you are the one who hears all our prayers and grants our petitions.

We ask you to remember, as we do,
the tremendous sacrifice made by those who went before us.
They have given their lives so that we might live and breathe freely.
We ask you to receive them into your hands.

Father, give us the strength and wisdom to learn from their example,
to uphold freedom and life at home and around the world.

Keep us vigilant as we guard the frontiers of freedom.

Give our leaders the wisdom and the strength to lead well.

Grant all of us courage and confidence.
Be, for all of us, troopers, a wise counsel in keeping peace
and a strong shield for us against our enemies.
Oh heavenly Father, give us the determination
that the peace and freedom won at such a high price be lasting!

Father, hold all of the troopers in the palm of your almighty hand
and protect them in the shadow of your wings.

Amen.

[-Max2-]

RIP

[Fearless-Falcon]

RIP

I actualy knew him, well I have a good friend who serves in the same unit.

[big80a2]

RIP

good luck to all Dutch in Iraq

[mack pl]

RIP :( NL soldiers make good job in Iraq, i hope they will stay in Iraq :|

[gilgoul]

RIP :|

[oldsoak]

:(

[UoUo]

:( RIP


may all the terrorist in the world burn in hell.

[Haiw]

Sad....

And not even a single word written about it on the major US newssites. Shows how much they care about their fellow coalition members. :roll:

[Javehn]

RIP :(

[mack pl]

Sad....

And not even a single word written about it on the major US newssites. Shows how much they care about their fellow coalition members. :roll:Well, US soldiers are dying there every day so they could missed that one NL brave soldier was killed too.BTW its only ****in TV , what do you want of them man :| One again ,RIP :(

[Argyll]

:( RIP

I wouldn't be giving HELEX and Mustamoto any ammo over this.
Perhaps they just haven't got the details yet?
they usually have it on the scroll bars on Fox news?

[EvanL]

RIP
When was the last combat death of a Dutch soldier?

[-Max2-]

Probably during the war in the Balkans...

[Haiw]

Not 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure that was in Yugoslavia.

[EvanL]

Not 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure that was in Yugoslavia.
In COmbat?
I wasnt aware of the Dutch contingents getting into combat in Yugoslavia.

[Fearless-Falcon]

I think the last combat operation the Dutch participated in was the war in Korea.

5314 Soldiers of the Dutch Military fought together with the US 2nd Infantry Division.
123 KIA

and awarded:

14 Silverstars
102 Bronze Star
3 Militaire Willemsorde
5 Bronzen Leeuw
19 Bronzen kruis
4 kruis van verdienste

[Javaa]

I think the last combat operation the Dutch participated in was the war in Korea.

I think it was Afghanistan (air force combat sorties) maybe some spec ops

Kosovo (air force) numerous combat missions, air to ground and air to air (one MIG 29 downed by a Dutch F-16)

Bosnia-> marines 'mortared' the serbs after the shelling of a civ market
and KCT commandos were involved in some skirmishes with enemy forces before Sebrenica was overrun. KCT and SAS fought of an Serbian attack on some kind of outpost

Cambodja--> Marines were involved in some serious gunfights with Kmer rebels. Lots of wounded.

There has happened more then most people think

[Javaa]

But every coalition dead in Iraq is a tragedy
They are all just doing their job...........but its a very tough one

[Denat]

Bosnia-> marines 'mortared' the serbs after the shelling of a civ market
and KCT commandos were involved in some skirmishes with enemy forces before Sebrenica was overrun. KCT and SAS fought of an Serbian attack on some kind of outpost

First of all RIP to all Dutch soldiers who were killed in action.

And now some serious question. No offence is intended, no flame war. The only thing that is well known about Srebrenica and Dutch soldiers is their shameful retreat from there and that they have abbandoned their duty leaving without any defence thousands of innocent people, who were slaughtered by the Serbs. I have seen some sceenes in documentary film, where the CO of the Dutch forces in Srebrenica (some Lt.Col) was shaking hands with Serb gen.Ratko Mladic (now wanted war criminal) and than Mladic gave some suvenires from Bosnia, that were accepted by Dutch officers. The only thing that is unquestionable in this story is that Dutch soldiers acted like cowards and refused to fight in the defence of the civilians they were ordered to protect. And the effect of their cowardice were mass-graves full of killed muslims. So please explain me in what kind of skirmishes with Serbs were they (Dutch soldiers) involved?

[Dutchman2]

Bosnia-> marines 'mortared' the serbs after the shelling of a civ market
and KCT commandos were involved in some skirmishes with enemy forces before Sebrenica was overrun. KCT and SAS fought of an Serbian attack on some kind of outpost

First of all RIP to all Dutch soldiers who were killed in action.

And now some serious question. No offence is intended, no flame war. The only thing that is well known about Srebrenica and Dutch soldiers is their shameful retreat from there and that they have abbandoned their duty leaving without any defence thousands of innocent people, who were slaughtered by the Serbs. I have seen some sceenes in documentary film, where the CO of the Dutch forces in Srebrenica (some Lt.Col) was shaking hands with Serb gen.Ratko Mladic (now wanted war criminal) and than Mladic gave some suvenires from Bosnia, that were accepted by Dutch officers. The only thing that is unquestionable in this story is that Dutch soldiers acted like cowards and refused to fight in the defence of the civilians they were ordered to protect. And the effect of their cowardice were mass-graves full of killed muslims. So please explain me in what kind of skirmishes with Serbs were they (Dutch soldiers) involved?

Unfortunatly, the basic from the Screbrenica disaster is caused by the French who refused to give airsupport, because he was afraid that a few of their shot down pilots could be executed.
Our left winked politicy did exactly what the UN told them to do: No offencive looks. So, no heavy arms and guns. A few Dutch had to defend thousants of people with Uzi's, Fal's and a few .50's :( . If our goverment act with healthy mind, they would send some more firepower to that erea. And the French? Well, they did save the lives of theit 2 pilot's...

Aan alle militairen in uitzend gebied; sterkte! Aand de familie van de omgekomen sergeant, gecondoleerd!

[Javaa]

And now some serious question. No offence is intended, no flame war. The only thing that is well known about Srebrenica and Dutch soldiers is their shameful retreat from there and that they have abbandoned their duty leaving without any defence thousands of innocent people, who were slaughtered by the Serbs. I have seen some sceenes in documentary film, where the CO of the Dutch forces in Srebrenica (some Lt.Col) was shaking hands with Serb gen.Ratko Mladic (now wanted war criminal) and than Mladic gave some suvenires from Bosnia, that were accepted by Dutch officers. The only thing that is unquestionable in this story is that Dutch soldiers acted like cowards and refused to fight in the defence of the civilians they were ordered to protect. And the effect of their cowardice were mass-graves full of killed muslims. So please explain me in what kind of skirmishes with Serbs were they (Dutch soldiers) involved?

first of all, they didn't refuse to fight. They were ordered not to fight by supreme UN commanders. Off course its a very sad thing what happened at Sebrenica, but you can certainly not blame 'the men on the ground'.
I suppose you do some research on this subject and look further then a 'documentary'. (no offence)

This batalion was placed in Sebrenica after the Canadians left it (because they knew they couldn't defend it against a serbian attack. And nobody else wanted to get in there. So a very light armed Dutch infantry batalion was placed in the region, who soon found themselves outnumbered by well armed serbian forces. Their goal was to conquer the region and 'remove' the muslim population. (the Dutch did not expect the mass murder, what took place later on). The Dutch government did't supply them with 'heavy weaponry' because they thought that it would 'too aggressive'. :roll:
The serbs knew sebrenica was poor defended, so thats why they decided to move there. They knew they would have a lot more trouble if they invaded a ,let say, British or French region.
But the real problem for the Dutch forces was their UN mandate. They had very strict rules of engagement. They could't defend the region, when the serbs didn't fire at them.
The most important problem however was the fact that the supreme commanders of the UN campaign refused to sent in reinforcements to help defend the region. Although there was asked for reinforcements multiple times. This French general refused to give air support, and the british commanders sat on their but, relieved that their troops weren't in the same position.

They didn't stand a change, and they realised it. And the Dutch forces had to watch how the civilians were deported (the killing hapened later). They stayed and there was nothing they could do, except talking to the serbs (useless).
The LTC was responsible for this talking and he was not the most suitable person for this. His intentions were to save his troops (not that weird with an entire serbian army on the hills). He failed to protect the muslim population and Mladic knew his position and made use of it.
What i'm trying to say is that you can't blame the troops on the ground for the misstakes their superior makes. To say that they cowardly retreated and abbandoned their duty is just bull****. The soldiers did the best they could at that time.
It's the UN who failed to protect the population of Sebrenica, and its rather simple to blame just the Dutch forces for it. I'm the last one to say they didn't make mistakes, but you obviously do not know the whole story behind this conflict.

Its allways easy to know it better afterwards

[Umm-Qasr]

Bosnia-> marines 'mortared' the serbs after the shelling of a civ market
and KCT commandos were involved in some skirmishes with enemy forces before Sebrenica was overrun. KCT and SAS fought of an Serbian attack on some kind of outpost

First of all RIP to all Dutch soldiers who were killed in action.

And now some serious question. No offence is intended, no flame war. The only thing that is well known about Srebrenica and Dutch soldiers is their shameful retreat from there and that they have abbandoned their duty leaving without any defence thousands of innocent people, who were slaughtered by the Serbs. I have seen some sceenes in documentary film, where the CO of the Dutch forces in Srebrenica (some Lt.Col) was shaking hands with Serb gen.Ratko Mladic (now wanted war criminal) and than Mladic gave some suvenires from Bosnia, that were accepted by Dutch officers. The only thing that is unquestionable in this story is that Dutch soldiers acted like cowards and refused to fight in the defence of the civilians they were ordered to protect. And the effect of their cowardice were mass-graves full of killed muslims. So please explain me in what kind of skirmishes with Serbs were they (Dutch soldiers) involved?

Unfortunatly, the basic from the Screbrenica disaster is caused by the French who refused to give airsupport, because he was afraid that a few of their shot down pilots could be executed.
Our left winked politicy did exactly what the UN told them to do: No offencive looks. So, no heavy arms and guns. A few Dutch had to defend thousants of people with Uzi's, Fal's and a few .50's :( . If our goverment act with healthy mind, they would send some more firepower to that erea. And the French? Well, they did save the lives of theit 2 pilot's...

Aan alle militairen in uitzend gebied; sterkte! Aand de familie van de omgekomen sergeant, gecondoleerd! Yeah, and that's why Karremans was drinking Whiskey with the Serb man who was responsible for the death of 4000 muslim men there !!!! :roll:

[EvanL]

And now some serious question. No offence is intended, no flame war. The only thing that is well known about Srebrenica and Dutch soldiers is their shameful retreat from there and that they have abbandoned their duty leaving without any defence thousands of innocent people, who were slaughtered by the Serbs. I have seen some sceenes in documentary film, where the CO of the Dutch forces in Srebrenica (some Lt.Col) was shaking hands with Serb gen.Ratko Mladic (now wanted war criminal) and than Mladic gave some suvenires from Bosnia, that were accepted by Dutch officers. The only thing that is unquestionable in this story is that Dutch soldiers acted like cowards and refused to fight in the defence of the civilians they were ordered to protect. And the effect of their cowardice were mass-graves full of killed muslims. So please explain me in what kind of skirmishes with Serbs were they (Dutch soldiers) involved?

first of all, they didn't refuse to fight. They were ordered not to fight by supreme UN commanders. Off course its a very sad thing what happened at Sebrenica, but you can certainly not blame 'the men on the ground'.
I suppose you do some research on this subject and look further then a 'documentary'. (no offence)

This batalion was placed in Sebrenica after the Canadians left it (because they knew they couldn't defend it against a serbian attack. And nobody else wanted to get in there. So a very light armed Dutch infantry batalion was placed in the region, who soon found themselves outnumbered by well armed serbian forces. Their goal was to conquer the region and 'remove' the muslim population. (the Dutch did not expect the mass murder, what took place later on). The Dutch government did't supply them with 'heavy weaponry' because they thought that it would 'too aggressive'. :roll:
The serbs knew sebrenica was poor defended, so thats why they decided to move there. They knew they would have a lot more trouble if they invaded a ,let say, British or French region.
But the real problem for the Dutch forces was their UN mandate. They had very strict rules of engagement. They could't defend the region, when the serbs didn't fire at them.
The most important problem however was the fact that the supreme commanders of the UN campaign refused to sent in reinforcements to help defend the region. Although there was asked for reinforcements multiple times. This French general refused to give air support, and the british commanders sat on their but, relieved that their troops weren't in the same position.

They didn't stand a change, and they realised it. And the Dutch forces had to watch how the civilians were deported (the killing hapened later). They stayed and there was nothing they could do, except talking to the serbs (useless).
The LTC was responsible for this talking and he was not the most suitable person for this. His intentions were to save his troops (not that weird with an entire serbian army on the hills). He failed to protect the muslim population and Mladic knew his position and made use of it.
What i'm trying to say is that you can't blame the troops on the ground for the misstakes their superior makes. To say that they cowardly retreated and abbandoned their duty is just bull****. The soldiers did the best they could at that time.
It's the UN who failed to protect the population of Sebrenica, and its rather simple to blame just the Dutch forces for it. I'm the last one to say they didn't make mistakes, but you obviously do not know the whole story behind this conflict.

Its allways easy to know it better afterwards
Thats Hogwash. We held off the serbs for weeks with an army of 300.
And the dutch gave it up in a week, causing one of the worst genocides of the 90s.

[Javaa]

Thats Hogwash. We held off the serbs for weeks with an army of 300.
And the dutch gave it up in a week, causing one of the worst genocides of the 90s.

this genocide was caused by the serbs, not by the dutch..... :roll:
That's something you seem to forget............

[Denat]

first of all, they didn't refuse to fight. They were ordered not to fight by supreme UN commanders. Off course its a very sad thing what happened at Sebrenica, but you can certainly not blame 'the men on the ground'.
I suppose you do some research on this subject and look further then a 'documentary'. (no offence)
Believe me I know this subject very well. Are you saying that the sceenes in documentary film, where the CO of the Dutch forces in Srebrenica Lt.Col Karremans was shaking hands with Serb gen.Ratko Mladic are fake ?!? There was no such an action ?!? If those sceenes are true what is your point with looking further then a 'documentary' ? Documents are the best source of historical knowledge - their greatest advantage is that they don't lie.
And now back to the topic. As I stated before I don't want to offend or insult you - i just want the truth. Blaming supreme UN commanders for your own faults is not the best way to deal with this problem. To my best knowledge the UN Supreme Command failed to protect Srebrenica, so as the Dutch. They were ordered not to fight? Sweet Jesus! They were ordered not to fight, while innocent civilian population they were also ordered to protect, was executed and slaughtered just few miles or even some thousands meters away. They acted cowardly following orders not to fight but at the very same moment not following orders to protect the civilians.

This batalion was placed in Sebrenica after the Canadians left it (because they knew they couldn't defend it against a serbian attack. And nobody else wanted to get in there. So a very light armed Dutch infantry batalion was placed in the region, who soon found themselves outnumbered by well armed serbian forces.
That's no excuse. The Canadians left earlier, so we can also leave now. If the Canadians could, we also can, right ? During the time when the Canadian Forces were stationed in Srebrenica there were no executions of the civilians, so please stop with the Canadians. But the executions happened when the Dutch battalion failed to protect the civilians. If you knew that there is no chance to defend the Srebrenica, you shouldn't put your battalion there just to retreat without any fight later.

(the Dutch did not expect the mass murder, what took place later on).
So what did you expected - that the bloody-handed-muslim-killer gen.Ratko Mladic will do no harm to the muslim civilian population gathered in Srebrenica? You believed that he will come into the Srebrenica, while the crowds of civilians will be cheering him and than dancing and drinking alcohol with the Serbs? It was well known at that time what horrible crimes were commited by the Serbs. The protection zones for the muslims in Bosnia and Herzegovina were created in fact to prevent from the next ethnic-based mass-executions. You were so naive that you had no idea about it?

But the real problem for the Dutch forces was their UN mandate. They had very strict rules of engagement. They could't defend the region, when the serbs didn't fire at them.
So they were following the orders while the civilians were being slaughtered just few miles away - so close that even the sounds of the shots were clearly to be heard. It was better to breake this orders and to fight like a soldiers than to shake hands with the Serbs allowing them to kill the innocent civilians. Were the Dutch soldiers ordered to shake hands with the Serbs?

The Dutch government did't supply them with 'heavy weaponry' because they thought that it would 'too aggressive'.
So you should have fight like a soldiers even without 'heavy weaponry' and protect the innocents instead of retreating like cowards.

The most important problem however was the fact that the supreme commanders of the UN campaign refused to sent in reinforcements to help defend the region. Although there was asked for reinforcements multiple times. This French general refused to give air support, and the british commanders sat on their but, relieved that their troops weren't in the same position.
And once again it comes - first the Canadians, than the French general and the british commanders - everyone is guilty but obviously NOT the Dutch soldiers. It looks like some kind of international plot against the Dutch. YOU were in Srebrenica and YOUR Dutch soldiers acted like cowards and refused to fight in the defence of the civilians they were ordered to protect. They have abbandoned their duty leaving without any defence thousands of innocent people, who were than slaughtered by the Serbs. It is YOUR fault, wheather you like it or not.

They didn't stand a change, and they realised it. And the Dutch forces had to watch how the civilians were deported (the killing hapened later). They stayed and there was nothing they could do, except talking to the serbs (useless).
No they didn't have to watch how the civilians were deported - they were soldiers and they should have fight and even all of them should die if needed in the defence of the people they were ordered to protect.

His intentions were to save his troops (not that weird with an entire serbian army on the hills).
Great intentions, indeed. To save his troops !!! Who cares what will happen to the innocent civilians ? The Dutch soldiers should have an intention to save the people they were ordered to protect. But they failed to do so. They were thinking only about their own safety, so they have abbandoned their duty leaving without any defence thousands of innocent people, who were than executed by the Serbs. And you call them soldiers? They acted like cowards and they were cowards - shame on them.

The soldiers did the best they could at that time.
That's some kind of joke? I won't even comment this statement.

It's the UN who failed to protect the population of Sebrenica, and its rather simple to blame just the Dutch forces for it.
And once again it comes - first the Canadians, than the French general and the british commanders and finally the UN - everyone is guilty but obviously NOT the Dutch soldiers. It looks like some kind of international plot against the Dutch. YOU were in Srebrenica and YOUR Dutch soldiers acted like cowards and refused to fight in the defence of the civilians they were ordered to protect. They have abbandoned their duty leaving without any defence thousands of innocent people, who were than slaughtered by the Serbs. It is YOUR fault, wheather you like it or not. Blaming everyone else but not yourself is just unresponsible. You should take responsibility for your own actions.

BTW Your excuse is that the Dutch soldiers were outnumbered by the Serbs and lacking of firepower, heavy weapons and airsupport.
So I will give you an example of brave fight under such circumstances. During the Warsaw Uprising in 1944 polish resistance AK (Home Army) fighters armed only in personal weapons (sometimes homemade), grenades and Molotov Coctails but lacking of ammo were defending themselfs through 63 days of horrible fights against superior forces of German Wehrmacht (about 90,000 soldiers), supported from air and armed with tanks, heavy and assault artillery of almost every type. Polish Home Army get no real support neither from western allies, nor from the Soviets. 18,000 of Polish fighters were killed, 8,000-25,000 were heavily wounded, about 15,000 went into captivity. About 180,000-250,000 Polish civilians died as well, mostly as result of mass executions - eg. after taking Wola (one of Warsaw districts) German soldiers executed approximately 40,000 civilian inhabitants. German losses were about 10,000-17,000 killed, 6,000 MIA and 9,000 wounded plus 300 armoured cars and tanks.
Polish fighters in Warsaw Uprising were in 1000 times worse conditions than the Dutch regular infantry units in Srebrenica. But Polish fighters had HONOR AND GREATEST VALOR to fight and even die for their cause. They weren't looking for excuses, they weren't blaming the others - they just went against german tanks with bottles filled with petrol. If the Dutch soldiers in Srebrenica had even 5% of the courage, bravery, heroism, selfness and devotion to duty that Polish fighters had there would be no massgraves in the Srebrenica.

And talking about the Canadians - I've heard that soldiers from Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry distinguished themselfs fighting serious battle in the defence of some civilians in Bosnia or Kraina. So don't blame the Canadians - blame only yourself.


Firefight at the Medak Pocket

MICHAEL SNIDER with SEAN M. MALONEY

In September, 1993, Canadian troops stationed in an area of Croatia known as Vojna Krajina engaged in a fierce battle with Croatian forces attacking a predominantly Serb enclave. The engagement, little known outside of military circles, was not publicized by the Canadian government, which was hesitant to draw attention to the increasing dangers the country's troops were facing abroad. But this December, Ottawa will finally honour the soldiers who took part in that firefight by presenting them with a unit commendation. Maclean's tells the story of the battle:

PTE. SCOTT LeBLANC'S machine gun jackhammered against his shoulder as he fired at the Croatian troops dug in 150 metres away. Grenades exploded around him; bullets and orange tracer-fire screamed through the smoky air. The Croatians hammered the Canadians for 15 hours straight -- thinking the 30 soldiers from the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry would buckle and run like other UN peacekeepers had often done. But the Canadians, members of one of three platoons making up the Patricia's Charlie Company, held their ground. "They're trying to flank us," LeBlanc's section leader barked, sending a jolt of adrenalin through LeBlanc's exhausted body. Standing halfway out of his trench, the 19-year-old reservist swung his gun around and opened fire on the Croatians. "We could see muzzle flashes and threw everything we had at them," recalls LeBlanc, now a 28-year-old lieutenant who has just returned from Afghanistan. "After that, everything got real quiet."

The fierce battle took place in September, 1993, about a year and a half after Canadian peacekeepers had first arrived in the former Yugoslavia. Vicious fighting and appalling acts of ethnic cleansing made their task of disarming and separating the various combatants nearly impossible. Especially volatile was one mountainous region of Croatia called Vojna Krajina, or Military Frontier, home to an isolated pocket of some 500,000 Serbs. Fiercely nationalistic, the Krajina Serbs began to drive out Croats. But on Sept. 9, Croatian Commander Rahim Ademi launched an attack to capture an area of Serb-controlled territory in Krajina called the Medak Pocket. The UN, fearing that 400 Serbs living in four unprotected villages in the area were at risk of being slaughtered by Croatian troops, ordered the Patricia's into the area -- and into the biggest firefight Canadian forces had been involved in since Korea.

Five months into a six-month tour of duty, the Canadians were led by Lt.-Col. James Calvin, 41. The 875-man battle group was a patchwork of regular and reserve soldiers. In fact, 70 per cent of the front line soldiers were reservists -- a makeup that, Calvin says, could prove dangerous in a war zone. "Reservists are just as long on valour and courage," the now-retired Calvin told Maclean's from his home on Wolfe Island, Ont., near Kingston. "But you can't expect one to do the same things you expect from a regular soldier."

Still, after four months in the region, Calvin considered his force seasoned, especially with his hand-picked group of platoon leaders, including reservist Lt. Tyrone Green. The morning of Sept. 9 started nicely enough for the Vancouver native in charge of 9 Platoon, Charlie Company, with sunshine poking through the cracks in the boarded windows of the platoon's quarters, a two-storey concrete building on the outskirts of the Serb-held town of Medak.

But as Green dragged a razor across his chin, his morning shave was interrupted by incoming artillery shells. With soap still clinging to his face, Green, who is now a captain in charge of a Canadian Forces recruiting office in Vancouver, grabbed his helmet and raced to his M-113 armoured personnel carrier. At one point he was knocked down when a shell landed in a nearby ditch. He wasn't hurt, but four Canadians were injured in the shelling. "We counted 500 or more shells by the end of the first day," says Green. "About a dozen fell in our compound and one landed about 10 metres from the front door."

Not knowing where the shells were coming from, Green sent Sgt. Rudy Bajema to establish an observation post. For the next five days, Bajema watched as the Medak Pocket was attacked by more than 2,500 Croat troops, backed by tanks, rocket launchers and artillery. The Serbs finally slowed the Croatian advance on Sept. 12, but it was not until they launched rockets into a suburb of Zagreb, Croatia's capital, that the Croats relented and accepted a UN ceasefire.

Calvin, who didn't really expect the Croatians to live up to the agreement, ordered his troops to occupy the Croat positions. "We started taking fire almost immediately from the Croats," recalls LeBlanc. The battle raged for the next 15 hours. It was so intense that at night the light from burning buildings reflected off the soldiers' blue UN helmets, prompting them to wrap them in khaki-coloured T-shirts. Finally realizing the Canadians would not back down, the Croats sent word to Calvin that they wanted to talk. They had good reason to call a truce: the Canadians had killed 27 Croats while not taking a single casualty.

Joined by Col. Michel Maisonneuve, a Canadian officer from the UN headquarters in Zagreb, Calvin met with Ademi at his headquarters in a town near the fighting. Ademi sat on one side of the table, blustering and yelling at the Canadians. "He looked like he was enjoying the role he was playing," says Calvin. "Emotions were very high and I was irate my men were getting shot at." But after an hour and a half, Ademi finally relented and promised to pull his troops out at noon the next day.

The Croatian commander, however, was determined to terrorize the Serb civilians living in the area before he left. By 10 a.m. the next morning, a thick umbrella of smoke covered all four towns in the Medak Pocket as the Croats tried to kill or destroy everything in their wake. The Canadians witnessed scenes that still haunt many of them. "They could see what was happening from their foxholes," says Calvin. "My soldiers knew their role was to protect the weak and the innocent and they were absolutely incensed." But fearing the ceasefire agreement with Ademi would collapse if they advanced, the Canadians could do nothing but hold their ground.

Finally, when the noon deadline passed, the Canadians raced ahead, but immediately encountered a company of Croat troops behind a barricade -- and supported by missiles launchers and an ominous Soviet-era T-72 tank. Calvin approached the senior Croat brigadier; their conversation quickly became heated. The large, bearded Croat ordered his men to **** their weapons and point them at the Canadians. "We knew they were stalling so they could clean up evidence of their ethnic cleansing," Calvin recalls.

Calvin did not order his troops to fight, and instead tried another gambit. With the Medak attack almost a week old, the international media had converged on the area. As negotiations with his bearded counterpart deteriorated, Calvin held a news conference in front of the barricade and bluntly described the atrocities he believed were being committed by the Croatians. Realizing his country's reputation was in jeopardy, the Croat commander suddenly stepped aside. "The transformation was instantaneous," says Calvin. "He made a big show of removing the barriers."

The Patricia's then pushed on. Every building in their path had been demolished and many were still smouldering. Corpses lay by the side of the road, some badly mutilated and others burned beyond recognition. "We knew it was going to be bad," says Green, "but the things we found there were worse than anything we expected."

The Canadians documented everything they saw. Calvin's subsequent report helped convince the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia to issue an indictment in 2001 against Ademi, charging him with crimes against humanity. Made public one year ago, the report is a brutal list of murder and torture. Among the victims: Sara Krickovic, female, 71, throat cut; Pera Krajnovic, female, 86, burned to death; Andja Jovic, female, 74, beaten and shot. In all, the Patricia's found 16 mutilated corpses -- some with their eyes cut out.

The soldiers rotated home four weeks later, but there was no hero's welcome. At the time, Canadians were focused on the disturbing revelations that a teenager named Shidane Arone had been tortured and killed by Canadian peacekeepers in Somalia. Kim Campbell's Conservative government was also facing a federal election and didn't want the increasing dangers Canadian troops were facing in the Balkans raised as an issue. "When we got back to Canada a couple of weeks later, the first thing I did was call home," says LeBlanc. "My folks hadn't heard anything about the battle."

The force did receive high honours from the United Nations in 1994, when its members were given the United Nations Force Commanders' Commendation -- the first of its kind and only one of three ever awarded. And, this December, the Canadian government finally plans to honour the troops by presenting them with a unit commendation. But the honours only go so far. With vivid memories of the battle, many of the soldiers still suffer from post-traumatic stress syndrome.

As for Ademi, his case rests in legal limbo. After the indictment, he voluntarily turned himself over to the war crimes tribunal, proclaiming he had a clear conscience because "I did not order any atrocities." Last February, the UN granted him a provisional release on condition he return to The Hague when the trial proceeds, likely next year. Calvin may be called to testify. "Ademi should be called to account," he says. "No soldier should be able to get away with that."

[Truthsayer]

Sorry I missed this. RIP!

[Haiw]

Okay you armchair warriors, tell me, how would you have done Sebrenica then? The heaviest weapons they had were .50s...against tanks. Now unless someone came up with a modern version of SPR's sticky bombs (:roll:), they didn't have a CHANCE. (Even if they had heavier weapons it would be doubtfull) Sure, they might have had a pretty good chance with air support...but that's something they didn't get. Oh and let's not start about the UN mandate. :roll:

Long story short; yeah, sure, the pictures of Karremans shaking hands with Mladic were pretty bad, but in his situation I'm afraid he didn't have much choice (except for violating his mandate and all regulations just to get his troops slaughtered without any effect).

[Javaa]

@ Denat

i'm sorry i have given you the idea that i'm trying to blame 'others' for Dutch faults. This wasn't my intention. Sorry for that

There were made some terrible mistakes over there, but its just not as simple as you state in your replies. I fear no dicussion about this subject, but i don't think this is the right topic for this.

Yes, the Dutch were responsible for that area but that doesn't makes them guilty for the killing of 7000 muslims.

Like I said before, i'm not trying to blame the Canadians or French or anyone else for this, and you know that. The dutch were responsible for Sebrenica and they failed.

P.S I personally have nothing to do with the whole Bosnia thing, if that is what you might think.

[dacanadianbomb]

RIP to the fallen.

The UN mandate failed the people of Srebrenica - IMPHO as it did in Rwanda. But I am off topic.

Hopefully the Dutch will stay strong and continue to make a difference many miles away from their home.

[Javaa]

BTW Your excuse is that the Dutch soldiers were outnumbered by the Serbs and lacking of firepower, heavy weapons and airsupport.
So I will give you an example of brave fight under such circumstances. During the Warsaw Uprising in 1944 polish resistance AK (Home Army) fighters armed only in personal weapons (sometimes homemade), grenades and Molotov Coctails but lacking of ammo were defending themselfs through 63 days of horrible fights against superior forces of German Wehrmacht (about 90,000 soldiers), supported from air and armed with tanks, heavy and assault artillery of almost every type. Polish Home Army get no real support neither from western allies, nor from the Soviets. 18,000 of Polish fighters were killed, 8,000-25,000 were heavily wounded, about 15,000 went into captivity. About 180,000-250,000 Polish civilians died as well, mostly as result of mass executions - eg. after taking Wola (one of Warsaw districts) German soldiers executed approximately 40,000 civilian inhabitants. German losses were about 10,000-17,000 killed, 6,000 MIA and 9,000 wounded plus 300 armoured cars and tanks.
Polish fighters in Warsaw Uprising were in 1000 times worse conditions than the Dutch regular infantry units in Srebrenica. But Polish fighters had HONOR AND GREATEST VALOR to fight and even die for their cause. They weren't looking for excuses, they weren't blaming the others - they just went against german tanks with bottles filled with petrol. If the Dutch soldiers in Srebrenica had even 5% of the courage, bravery, heroism, selfness and devotion to duty that Polish fighters had there would be no massgraves in the Srebrenica.


Comparing these two situations is ridiculous and you know that. These heroic polish forces defended their homeland. NO MODERN WESTERN GOVERNMENT would sacrifice 600 soldiers for the safety of foreign civilians in a dirty civil war. THAT is the harsh reality. And you have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about. No single American, Britisch, Polish.....etc government would sacrifice their soldiers' life for this, and you know it.

Besides: if they had decided to fight themselves dead. I wouldn't prevented the 7000 dead. Instead the total would be around 7600. Maybe these 600 would have died as 'true heros' in your eyes, but you know what?! Soldiers on the ground don't give a **** about heroics and medals......

Finally this list for you
Dutch casualties in UN missions over the past 50 years. And no, these are not car accidents.
Think before you call people 'cowards'
(list is from MoD)

Irak: 1 dead, 4 wounded (so far)
Afghanistan: no deads, couple wounded.
Macedonia: (1999): 1 dead
Ethiopië, Eritrea (1999): 1 dead
Kosovo: 1 dead
Former Yougoslavia (1992-2004): 14 deads
Cambodia (1992-1993): 2 deads, numerous wounded
Sinaï (1982-1995): 1 dead
Libanon (1979-1985): 9 deads
Korea (1950-1955) 123 deads

These stats don't include dutch military casualties in Indonesia.(no UN mission)

[computer]

Denat,
stating that you don't want to insult somebody on this forum doesn't enhance you credibility, because actually you do insult me (and I am sure I'm not the only one) by saying those troops in Srebrenica were cowards because they didn't disobey an order to stay put.

[mack pl]

Calm down boys :|

[Haiw]

Comparing these two situations is ridiculous and you know that. These heroic polish forces defended their homeland. NO MODERN WESTERN GOVERNMENT would sacrifice 600 soldiers for the safety of foreign civilians in a dirty civil war. THAT is the harsh reality. And you have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about. No single American, Britisch, Polish.....etc government would sacrifice their soldiers' life for this, and you know it.
And not to forget that when the Polish uprising started it didn't look all that hopeless; after all the Russians were damn close. Too bad for them Stalin decided that it would be 'best' to just halt the offensive and let the Germans take care of any possible future political enemies.

[mack pl]

Comparing these two situations is ridiculous and you know that. These heroic polish forces defended their homeland. NO MODERN WESTERN GOVERNMENT would sacrifice 600 soldiers for the safety of foreign civilians in a dirty civil war. THAT is the harsh reality. And you have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about. No single American, Britisch, Polish.....etc government would sacrifice their soldiers' life for this, and you know it.
And not to forget that when the Polish uprising started it didn't look all that hopeless; after all the Russians were damn close. Too bad for them Stalin decided that it would be 'best' to just halt the offensive and let the Germans take care of any possible future political enemies.Ohh, well you are polish history expert haiw ;) BTW stop comparing dutch soldiers in Balkans to polish Home Army soldiers in WW II.Its senseless.Have a nice day all :)

[Dutchman2]

The soldiers did the best they could at that time.
That's some kind of joke? I won't even comment this statement.
[/quote]

Denat, you insulted and hurted me very much! I know people that where actualy there! Some of their friends tried to commite suicide, because they coudn't live with all the blaming and insultings they get. From the world and our media and goverment!
Proberly you saw something on TV with a beer in your hand, a few 1000 kilometer away from Screbrenica and Holland, and enjoy to insult many people! You know everything so right, why didn't they send you alone?! That would salve the problems in the world! In my opinion your are nothing more than a P.O.S., cause you have your opion ready before you know all facts. Damn, you don't even wanna hear them! I never called someonem a P.O.S on a forum board, your the first one: Congratulations!

[Haiw]

Comparing these two situations is ridiculous and you know that. These heroic polish forces defended their homeland. NO MODERN WESTERN GOVERNMENT would sacrifice 600 soldiers for the safety of foreign civilians in a dirty civil war. THAT is the harsh reality. And you have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about. No single American, Britisch, Polish.....etc government would sacrifice their soldiers' life for this, and you know it.
And not to forget that when the Polish uprising started it didn't look all that hopeless; after all the Russians were damn close. Too bad for them Stalin decided that it would be 'best' to just halt the offensive and let the Germans take care of any possible future political enemies.Ohh, well you are polish history expert haiw ;) BTW stop comparing dutch soldiers in Balkans to polish Home Army soldiers in WW II.Its senseless.Have a nice day all :)
Hey I wasn't the one that brought it up! The situations were completely different...but my assesment was pretty correct if I may say so (or my history books were very very wrong :P).

[Denat]

Dear Dutchman2, computer, Javaa, Haiw and anyone who feels offended and insulted by my opinions - I am sorry about that. I reffered to the actions of Dutch infantry battalion in Srebrenica, I didn't say anything against Holland or the Dutch. Insulting anyone and starting another flamewar was not my intention. I just stated what I was thinking about Srebrenica, I have my opinion about it and I won't change it. I won't change my opinion that Lt.Col Karremans shaking hands and drinking whisky with Serb gen.Ratko Mladic was shameful. In this documentary film I have seen the families of those civilians executed in Srebrenica. There is no particular word to describe their very negative attitude against the actions taken (or rather not taken) by the Dutch. Those people were blaming Dutch soldiers and they had a right to do so-they have lost their loved ones. But you are right, I shouldn't have judged actions taken there, being myself "1000 kilometer away from Screbrenica and Holland".
I wasn't there and I have no real right to blame anyone. I understand your point of view and especially that your national pride might have been hurted by my opinions. Once again sorry for that.

Dutchman2,
calling me P.O.S. is not the best way to discuss. As you might have seen I put my comments to every your argument - so I have read them carefully. And I know the facts - I just had another opinion about them.

BTW I think that's not the best place for such discussion.

[mack pl]

Comparing these two situations is ridiculous and you know that. These heroic polish forces defended their homeland. NO MODERN WESTERN GOVERNMENT would sacrifice 600 soldiers for the safety of foreign civilians in a dirty civil war. THAT is the harsh reality. And you have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about. No single American, Britisch, Polish.....etc government would sacrifice their soldiers' life for this, and you know it.
And not to forget that when the Polish uprising started it didn't look all that hopeless; after all the Russians were damn close. Too bad for them Stalin decided that it would be 'best' to just halt the offensive and let the Germans take care of any possible future political enemies.Ohh, well you are polish history expert haiw ;) BTW stop comparing dutch soldiers in Balkans to polish Home Army soldiers in WW II.Its senseless.Have a nice day all :)
Hey I wasn't the one that brought it up! The situations were completely different...but my assesment was pretty correct if I may say so (or my history books were very very wrong :P).I was sarcastic ;) you are correct(not 100% of course, you are only dutch)...(j.k)....@denat-yeah, its not the best place to talk about that.Pozdro.

[Denat]

Masz rację nie najlepsze - co nie zmienia faktu że w mojej prywatnej opinii Holendrzy dali dupy w Srebrenicy. Ale z drugiej strony rozumiem że przykro im o tym słuchać - jak byśmy mieli coś takiego na koncie to też by nam było przykro o tym słuchać. Pozdro.

[mack pl]

Masz rację nie najlepsze - co nie zmienia faktu że w mojej prywatnej opinii Holendrzy dali dupy w Srebrenicy. Ale z drugiej strony rozumiem że przykro im o tym słuchać - jak byśmy mieli coś takiego na koncie to też by nam było przykro o tym słuchać. Pozdro.Dont speak polish here, i was warned about that by Argyll few minutes ago ;) :lol: BTW I agree with you, but when you start talking about things like that on this forum ppl start crazy, and ****in flame wars happens :( ..czyli nie ma co o takich rzeczach pisac bo i tak chuj z tego wychodzi.........Argyll SORRY for polish, im ****in ignorant :oops:

[henksmoeder]

Dear Dutchman2, computer, Javaa, Haiw and anyone who feels offended and insulted by my opinions - I am sorry about that. I reffered to the actions of Dutch infantry battalion in Srebrenica, I didn't say anything against Holland or the Dutch. Insulting anyone and starting another flamewar was not my intention. I just stated what I was thinking about Srebrenica, I have my opinion about it and I won't change it. I won't change my opinion that Lt.Col Karremans shaking hands and drinking whisky with Serb gen.Ratko Mladic was shameful. In this documentary film I have seen the families of those civilians executed in Srebrenica. There is no particular word to describe their very negative attitude against the actions taken (or rather not taken) by the Dutch. Those people were blaming Dutch soldiers and they had a right to do so-they have lost their loved ones. But you are right, I shouldn't have judged actions taken there, being myself "1000 kilometer away from Screbrenica and Holland".
I wasn't there and I have no real right to blame anyone. I understand your point of view and especially that your national pride might have been hurted by my opinions. Once again sorry for that.

Dutchman2,
calling me P.O.S. is not the best way to discuss. As you might have seen I put my comments to every your argument - so I have read them carefully. And I know the facts - I just had another opinion about them.

BTW I think that's not the best place for such discussion.

Well the shaking hands thing is just some f*cked up formality. Remember Rumsfeld shaking hands with Sadam, or Wesley Clark trading hats with a general who was guilty of genocide. Those are just two examples that popped in my mind, but there probably dozens of pictures showing a 'western leader' shaking hands with a mass murderer.

[mack pl]

Dear Dutchman2, computer, Javaa, Haiw and anyone who feels offended and insulted by my opinions - I am sorry about that. I reffered to the actions of Dutch infantry battalion in Srebrenica, I didn't say anything against Holland or the Dutch. Insulting anyone and starting another flamewar was not my intention. I just stated what I was thinking about Srebrenica, I have my opinion about it and I won't change it. I won't change my opinion that Lt.Col Karremans shaking hands and drinking whisky with Serb gen.Ratko Mladic was shameful. In this documentary film I have seen the families of those civilians executed in Srebrenica. There is no particular word to describe their very negative attitude against the actions taken (or rather not taken) by the Dutch. Those people were blaming Dutch soldiers and they had a right to do so-they have lost their loved ones. But you are right, I shouldn't have judged actions taken there, being myself "1000 kilometer away from Screbrenica and Holland".
I wasn't there and I have no real right to blame anyone. I understand your point of view and especially that your national pride might have been hurted by my opinions. Once again sorry for that.

Dutchman2,
calling me P.O.S. is not the best way to discuss. As you might have seen I put my comments to every your argument - so I have read them carefully. And I know the facts - I just had another opinion about them.

BTW I think that's not the best place for such discussion.

Well the shaking hands thing is just some f*cked up formality. Remember Rumsfeld shaking hands with Sadam, or Wesley Clark trading hats with a general who was guilty of genocide. Those are just two examples that popped in my mind, but there probably dozens of pictures showing a 'western leader' shaking hands with a mass murderer.Ok, man if you dont wanna shaking ****ing hands with him, go with him to pub ;) Few beers, and maybe you will explain each other yours point of view ;) :lol: Regards :)

[SiFiOn]

All of you, STFU!

No one of you was there at the time I suppose and most important:

This topic is about a fallen Sergeant first class.

Let us respect him!

Condolances to his wife, two kids, relatives, friends and colleagues.

[Fearless-Falcon]

All of you, STFU!

No one of you was there at the time I suppose and most important:

This topic is about a fallen Sergeant first class.

Let us respect him!

Condolances to his wife, two kids, relatives, friends and colleagues.

True

[mack pl]

All of you, STFU!

No one of you was there at the time I suppose and most important:

This topic is about a fallen Sergeant first class.

Let us respect him!

Condolances to his wife, two kids, relatives, friends and colleagues.I hope you dont talk to me , because i show respect for him in page1.But i agree with you, its not good palce to talking BS about something what was happend in balkans, or whatever......One again RIP :(

[computer]

Mack Pl wrote:


Ok, man if you dont wanna shaking f*** hands with him, go with him to pub Few beers, and maybe you will explain each other yours point of view Regards

Mack, obviously you are having the best intentions, nou doubt about that.
What I doubt is if you have really read everything above, you have all comments about how things are said in this thread, but you lack the comments about the content of what is said.
What Henksmoeder stated about that handshaking ****e was not about him not wanting to be friends with Denat, it was about a Lieutenant Colonel busy with Public Relations trying to prevent his heavily outnumbered and almost unarmed troops being massacred by a huge group of outrageous and criminal Serbs.

(BTW this last part is especially meant for Denat who is having IMO an totally unjustified opinion about those Dutch infantry troops serving in that fokked up part of the world)

PS
I'll leave it with this because you right: this aint the right place to discuss this.

[mack pl]

Mack Pl wrote:


Ok, man if you dont wanna shaking f*** hands with him, go with him to pub Few beers, and maybe you will explain each other yours point of view Regards

Mack, obviously you are having the best intentions, nou doubt about that.
What I doubt is if you have really read everything above, you have all comments about how things are said in this thread, but you lack the comments about the content of what is said.
What Henksmoeder stated about that handshaking ****e was not about him not wanting to be friends with Denat, it was about a Lieutenant Colonel busy with Public Relations trying to prevent his heavily outnumbered and almost unarmed troops being massacred by a huge group of outrageous and criminal Serbs.

(BTW this last part is especially meant for Denat who is having IMO an totally unjustified opinion about those Dutch infantry troops serving in that fokked up part of the world)

PS
I'll leave it with this because you right: this aint the right place to discuss this.THX for explanations.i didnt read all posts, because I wasnt really interested ;) .And like I said, its not the best place to talking about things like that here.BTW Denat agree with me on this.Regards :)

[computer]

Yeah Rest in Peace Sarge

May everything stay as relatively peacefull as it was in Al Muthanna and surroundings without escalating things.

Oh and let justice be done (hopefully in Abu Ghraib p-) )

[Dutchman2]

Denat, sorry for calling u a P.O.S., that's what happening when emotions start to talk. My excusses.
Indeed, this topic is not about Screbrenica but Camp Smitty in Iraq, and our K.I.A. Sergeant.
Like I said before:

R.I.P. :( !

[Denat]

Denat, sorry for calling u a P.O.S., that's what happening when emotions start to talk. My excusses.
Indeed, this topic is not about Screbrenica but Camp Smitty in Iraq, and our K.I.A. Sergeant.
Like I said before:

R.I.P. :( !

No problem,
as I said before I understand your point of view and especially that your national pride might have been hurted by my opinions.
Like I said before:

RIP to all Dutch soldiers who were killed in action.