British Sas Sierra Leone Uniform ?

[glenn.kapheim]

I need some help for my next print, Of the sas in during the rescue. I have read op certain death buy Damien Lewis and his web page is great. My question is on the weapon did they use m4 203 or were all therm m16 203. I beleive they are the Canadian version so forgive me for not using there nomaclature.Also did they use there black kit leg hoster. The photos for the rest of the uniform looks like a Para - body armour but they did where there balistic helmet.

Thanks

Glenn


http://photos.kitmaker.net/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/16069





Just retired out of the U.S. Army Infantry, I now work for SAIC on FT. Benning Ga.
I am also a military illustrator. The links are above are some my prints.


Thanks


Glenn
grkapheim@hotmail.com
706 566 0825

Attached Thumbnails

[lightfire]

IIRC They used C8 (Canadian M4 version) with H&K AG36 (at least in Astan) , this was mentioned in the book and under the pics as well.

[baboon6]

IIRC They used C8 (Canadian M4 version) with H&K G36 (at least in Astan) , this was mentioned in the book and under the pics as well.

I think you mean AG36 (the 40mm underslung grenade launcher), the G36 is a rifle. According to a book I read called Operation Barras, the SAS on the mission wore helmets (the Para type) but no body armour while the Paras wore both.

[Gringo]

You can find some pics of them if you do a search in the photos forum.

[Wolf]

According to a book I read called Operation Barras, the SAS on the mission wore helmets (the Para type) but no body armour while the Paras wore both.

Well why would they bother wearing body armour, the SAS are bullet proof aren't they!!

I highly doubt that soldiers as well trainined and equipt as the SAS would not wear body armour when going into combat.

[gaijinsamurai]

Nice prints, Glenn! I'm impressed with your talent.

[baboon6]

Well why would they bother wearing body armour, the SAS are bullet proof aren't they!!

I highly doubt that soldiers as well trainined and equipt as the SAS would not wear body armour when going into combat.

I'm just reporting what I read. If you look at the photos on Damien Lewis's site from/related to Operation Certain Death it appears that in at least one pic an SAS soldier is wearing a helmet but not body armour, in the other pics it's hard to tell if they have CBA or not but they are wearing helmets. If you look at the Afghanistan section, none of them (apparently mainly SBS) are wearing either.

[Straker]

Also remember the time frame when commenting on the use of armour. The constant use of body armour during all operational phases was still being debated in terms of it effecting your agility; would you be more likely to be shot wearing it in the first place.

Just going from regular forces outside of the use of INIBA, "regular" warfighting body armour provided just fragmentation protection during that timeframe i.e. the CBA worn in Bosnia and elsewhere.

ECBA (the one with the small hard armour plate) was only introduced prior to the start of Op Telic. To Quote a general reporting to the house of commons:

Enhanced combat body armour has been in use for a long time, but essentially in peace support operations where the requirement is not to manoeuvre, but largely to conduct static operations

Perhaps they choose to not wear it; accepting the risk in doing so being offset against the greater manoeuvrability and decreased likelihood of being shot in the first place. Or maybe they did wear it and we just don't know about it, they could after all have been wearing it under their smocks like INIBA was.

[Royal]

ECBA (the one with the small hard armour plate) was only introduced prior to the start of Op Telic.

I was wearing ECBA in '93 or '94 (can't remember exactly), but it was a lot closer to Op Granby than Op Telic...

[Straker]

Interesting, was it on general issue or special to role? Much of the spin coming from the MOD over the lack of armour after Telic 1 seemed to indicate a shortage due to lack of production and it not being in service long enough to build up a sufficient stock (or was that just an excuse for not holding a big enough war reserve?)

[Royal]

Interesting, was it on general issue or special to role? Much of the spin coming from the MOD over the lack of armour after Telic 1 seemed to indicate a shortage due to lack of production and it not being in service long enough to build up a sufficient stock (or was that just an excuse for not holding a big enough war reserve?)

I don't remember anything particularly special about the issue. There were infantry and cavalry guys wearing it at the same time. It was certainly out in numbers well before CS95 was.

Is suspect lack of war reserves...

The pic below was taken on Christmas Day 1995 - the guy rear right on the turret is wearing it.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/RoyalPhoto/ALLABO1.jpg

[Lerch]

I don't remember anything particularly special about the issue. There were infantry and cavalry guys wearing it at the same time. It was certainly out in numbers well before CS95 was.

Is suspect lack of war reserves...
Weren't most of the early ECBA just the older CBA with the ceramic plate pockets sewn in? I remember picking one up with tags from 92 a couple years back and the fabrics differed (vest was tropical and pockets were temperate).

[Royal]

Weren't most of the early ECBA just the older CBA with the ceramic plate pockets sewn in? I remember picking one up with tags from 92 a couple years back and the fabrics differed (vest was tropical and pockets were temperate).

The kevlar inserts were (AFAIK) the same, and still are. The outers went through at least three iterations with one, two and three pockets. On top of that some lads had them modded for extra pockets for morphine and FFDs.

Outers were never made in tropical material - it's flamable.

[Sabre]

I'm afraid mate that you're only going to get either:

a) People willing to help you who don't know what their talking about.

or

b) People who know what they're talking about who aren't willing to help you.


Neither of which are much use to you really. The illustrators that do the official prints and paintings are well known and trusted artists who get access to original photos of the ops or of the equipment. Without being that close in, I doubt you'll find definitive answers to your questions. Sorry mate.

[Pilgrim22]

The weapons system used was the M16A2 some had the M203 underslung, there where two trial Diemaco's on the assault now the adopted weapon. Body armour was personal choice, helmets Para, if you wanted to have a drop holster you wore it. only a clown would wear a side drop holster in the J. there are no pics of badged guys in damiens book trust me.

[Royal]

From the horse's mouth...

[glenn.kapheim]

I got this pic from Damien Lewis web page, I cant tell if he wearing a smock it seems to hot for me. He looks like he has a drop leg holster with a sig but I cant tell.

Thanks

Glenn
grkapheim@hotmail.com

[Lerch]

Looks like he might just be wet.

[Pilgrim22]

Glen pics genuine unfortunately. he is wearing jungle cam and drop holster but this is on temporary ranges check firing forget drop holsters for your print... tacky.