SlowButSure2
08-22-2007, 11:47 AM
Hi. I'm very new here and I joined to ask some questions about military pix (still preparing them, this thread isn't about that).
However, I've noticed an awful lot of nasty posts going from Israeli and UK posters.
Now, as a British Jew (and proud of it) I hope I could have a little COOL, CALM discussion. On why it happens and how to avoid it.
First off, the differences. Israelis tend to be very emotional, hot tempered, easily upset. Brits pride themselves on being unemotional - the old "stiff upper lip".
There's also the issue of chutzpah (kh-oots-pa). This is kind of hard to translate, but I guess British would be "chancing your arm", or "pushing your luck". Asking for something/doing something and hoping your initiative will be rewarded.
Thing is, this sort of thing isn't interpreted well in British (I suppose most Gentile) cultures. Here it's seen as "being cheeky". "Bare faced cheek". Similar things.
There's also the issue of being smart. Jews have a lot of pride in being educated and intelligent (I guess most minorities do). In the UK though, it's split across class boundaries - working class people have insults like "being too clever by half", "so sharp you'll cut yourself".
Then there's the borders issue. The UK is blessed with being an island, easily seperated and defended from outside aggressin. Israel does not have this luxury and has to use an awful lot of resources - yes, money, but also more important, BLOOD - to defend itself.
There's a lot of jealousy involved, I think. First, the Zahal (IDF) gains a lot of effectiveness from not ever had (much of) a class structure. There's the old Ashkenazi/Sephardim thing but (I thing Israeli posters would agree) that's not the issue it was.
Now the similarities;- both have a LOT of pride in their armed forces. Both have very successful and effective aerospace industries. Both project a sense of self confidence that (I think) is a little bit misplaced.
Conclusion? British posters shouldn't emotionally entangle the Israelis. And Israelis shouldn't bait the British about the colonial past.
What both sides would be better off doing is discussing POSITIVE solutions.
Thoughts? Agree/Disagree?
I don't want EXAMPLES of why Israel/UK are "bad/nasty/evil". I'd like to see some ideas on how we can go from here to a more peaceful, useful life.
And trolls shold just SHUT UP.
However, I've noticed an awful lot of nasty posts going from Israeli and UK posters.
Now, as a British Jew (and proud of it) I hope I could have a little COOL, CALM discussion. On why it happens and how to avoid it.
First off, the differences. Israelis tend to be very emotional, hot tempered, easily upset. Brits pride themselves on being unemotional - the old "stiff upper lip".
There's also the issue of chutzpah (kh-oots-pa). This is kind of hard to translate, but I guess British would be "chancing your arm", or "pushing your luck". Asking for something/doing something and hoping your initiative will be rewarded.
Thing is, this sort of thing isn't interpreted well in British (I suppose most Gentile) cultures. Here it's seen as "being cheeky". "Bare faced cheek". Similar things.
There's also the issue of being smart. Jews have a lot of pride in being educated and intelligent (I guess most minorities do). In the UK though, it's split across class boundaries - working class people have insults like "being too clever by half", "so sharp you'll cut yourself".
Then there's the borders issue. The UK is blessed with being an island, easily seperated and defended from outside aggressin. Israel does not have this luxury and has to use an awful lot of resources - yes, money, but also more important, BLOOD - to defend itself.
There's a lot of jealousy involved, I think. First, the Zahal (IDF) gains a lot of effectiveness from not ever had (much of) a class structure. There's the old Ashkenazi/Sephardim thing but (I thing Israeli posters would agree) that's not the issue it was.
Now the similarities;- both have a LOT of pride in their armed forces. Both have very successful and effective aerospace industries. Both project a sense of self confidence that (I think) is a little bit misplaced.
Conclusion? British posters shouldn't emotionally entangle the Israelis. And Israelis shouldn't bait the British about the colonial past.
What both sides would be better off doing is discussing POSITIVE solutions.
Thoughts? Agree/Disagree?
I don't want EXAMPLES of why Israel/UK are "bad/nasty/evil". I'd like to see some ideas on how we can go from here to a more peaceful, useful life.
And trolls shold just SHUT UP.